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Interesting D.C. Circuit Dissent Regarding Computer Monitoring for Jan. 6 Trespasser
In U.S. v. Goodwyn, decided Tuesday, Judges Florence Pan and Bradley Garcia denied an emergency motion to stay the decision below, on the grounds that:
Appellant has not satisfied the stringent requirements for a stay pending appeal. See Nken v. Holder, 556 U.S. 418, 434 (2009); D.C. Circuit Handbook of Practice and Internal Procedures 33 (2021).
Judge Gregory Katsas dissented:
This appeal involves computer monitoring imposed as a special condition of supervised release for a defendant convicted of wrongfully entering the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021. Daniel Goodwyn pleaded guilty to one count of knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1752(a)(1). Goodwyn entered the Capitol and remained inside for a total of 36 seconds. He did not use force to enter, did not assault police officers, and neither took nor damaged any government property. When police instructed Goodwyn to leave the building, he did so.
The district court sentenced Goodwyn to 60 days of imprisonment followed by a one-year term of supervised release. As a special condition of supervised release, the court sua sponte ordered the probation office to monitor Goodwyn's computers for the transmittal of "disinformation" about January 6. To enforce this condition, the court further required the installation of software on Goodwyn's computers that would enable the probation office to conduct "periodic unannounced searches."
On appeal, this Court vacated the condition. We held that "[t]he district court plainly erred in imposing the computer-monitoring condition without considering whether it was 'reasonably related' to the relevant sentencing factors and involved 'no greater deprivation of liberty than is reasonably necessary' to achieve the purposes behind sentencing." We further instructed the district court, if it wished to impose a new computer- monitoring condition on remand, to "explain its reasoning," to "develop the record in support of its decision," and to ensure that the condition complies with section 3583(d) and with the Constitution.
The district court reimposed the same condition on remand. In an oral hearing, the court said that Goodwyn had made statements on social media that "can be, it seems to me, construed as" urging a repeat of January 6, particularly "on the heels of another election." In its written order, the court elaborated on what it called Goodwyn's "concerning online activity." This included posting exhortations to "#StopTheSteal!" and "#FightForTrump," soliciting donations to fund his travel to Washington, posing for a livestream while inside the Capitol, confirming his presence there by text, and tweeting opinions such as: "They WANT a revolution. They're proving our point. They don't represent us. They hate us." In addressing what the court described as Goodwyn pushing "false narratives" about January 6 after-the-fact, the court, quoting from the government's brief, led with the fact Goodwyn "sat for an interview with Tucker Carlson on Fox News Channel." Finally, in concluding that computer monitoring was reasonably related to Goodwyn's offense, the court reasoned that monitoring would prevent Goodwyn from raising funds to support potential future crimes and would separate him "from extremist media, rehabilitating him."
Goodwyn appealed and moved for a stay. I would grant the motion because, in my view, Goodwyn is likely to prevail on the merits and has shown an immediate irreparable injury. See Nken v. Holder (factors for stay pending appeal).
As to likelihood of success, U.S. v. Burroughs (D.C. Cir. 2010) cuts against imposing the computer-monitoring condition at issue here. There, a defendant was convicted of sex crimes against a minor, including serving as her pimp, and was sentenced to 192 months of imprisonment. The district court imposed a computer-monitoring condition of supervised release, which the government defended on the ground that "the Internet can be used to arrange sexual encounters with minors and to advertise minors for prostitution." Even on plain-error review, we quickly rejected that argument: "Of course it can. But from drug dealers to Ponzi schemers and smugglers to stalkers—nearly any criminal can use the Internet to facilitate illegal conduct. That an offense is sometimes committed with the help of a computer does not mean that the district court can restrict the Internet access of anyone convicted of that offense."
Burroughs involved criminal conduct much more serious and ongoing than the one-time, wrongful-entry offense that Goodwyn committed. If concern about Internet usage to commit future crimes or threaten others was insufficient to satisfy section 3583(d) in Burroughs, it is likely insufficient here as well. Moreover, the First Amendment significantly limits the government's ability to prohibit speech that is false, United States v. Alvarez (2012); speech that advocates the use of force, Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969); or speech couched as threats, Watts v. U.S. (1969) (per curiam). On this record, I doubt that the vague and broad prohibition on spreading "disinformation" about January 6 would survive First Amendment scrutiny under these standards, which recognize that the "language of the political arena … is often vituperative, abusive, and inexact."
As for irreparable injury, it is settled law that the "loss of First Amendment freedoms, for even minimal periods of time, unquestionably constitutes irreparable injury." So this factor supports Goodwyn regardless of whether we credit his further assertion that he will lose his job as a journalist if the government is allowed to monitor his computer.
The third and fourth stay factors, involving harm to the non-moving party and the public interest, merge in this case, and provide no independent support for the government. Both parties treat these factors as an afterthought. With the two most important stay considerations favoring Goodwyn and with no public interest in enforcing likely unlawful speech restrictions, I would grant the motion for a stay.
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How many other people have been jailed for this kind of illegal entry to a building?
And how many of our leftist commenter crowd have denied that any of the January 6th protesters ever got convicted for such a small offense?
I don't think I've seen anyone deny that; most of the denial is from the MAGA cultists who insist nothing bad happened at all (tourists, invited in by the police, no weapons, and anyway all antifa and FBI agents).
Lending numbers to a violent insurrection is still a violation, however much you want to minimize it. This guy clearly isn't Mr. Magoo and must have known what was up (as his subsequent activity indicates), given the protracted conflict between police and the insurrectionists who were calling for Mike Pence to be hanged.
It was so insurrection-y, that nobody was charged with insurrection
Seditious conspiracy is a more clearly stated offense and has stiffer penalties. The crime of insurrection is insurrection, which is nicely recursive but allows a lot of wiggle room.
Stiffer except for the Section 3 penalty, of course.
I don't know if Enrique Tarrio or other Proud Boys would trade lengthy sentences for shorter sentences that forbid them from offices covered by the 14th amendment, but probably few of the January 6th insurrectionists had previously taken oaths where that penalty would apply. Voters should certainly take note of the history of those they are electing.
I will remind Brett and everyone else that I consistently called for keeping Trump (whose history includes insurrection and rape, using the same everyday understanding of those words) on the ballot, on the argument that if enough voters are as stupid or evil as Brett Bellmore that Trump could get elected President again, then the United States' two century plus experiment is a failure and we should find that out as efficiently as possible.
If you seriously believe that Trump was involved in an "insurrection" or that he "raped" E. Jean Carroll then it is you who is stupid and evil.
It is a sacrament for MAGA cultists like Bumble to denounce court findings and rail against those who tell the truth.
NO court has found anyone guilty of “insurrection” let alone Trump.
If you believe Trump raped E. Jean Carroll then you’re stupid and mis-informed.
I said in this string of comments that Trump's history includes insurrection and rape, in the everyday understanding of those words. The former is widely supported, including by various Republicans who declared that January 6th was an insurrection for which Trump was responsible. The latter is supported by a jury verdict (the popular understanding being that sexual assault defined in New York law is what is commonly referred to as rape).
This seems like a sort of weird objection. There's a legal crime called "insurrection". There's a colloquial word called "insurrection". Those two things overlap but aren't the same.
Likewise, I could call a politician corrupt even if they aren't prosecuted under the FCPA and instead are prosecuted under a statute that does not have the word "corruption" in its name.
Since I'm pretty sure you can understand this very obvious distinction, I assume this is some kind of public pissing in your pants for attention. Please wear a diaper next time.
It seems like a perfectly reasonable objection to me. We have “colloquial” insurrection and we have “legal” insurrection. Agreed.
Let’s go to the tape :
Magister : “Lending numbers to a violent insurrection is still a violation”
Spinach Chin : “It was so insurrection-y, that nobody was charged with insurrection”
So Spinach Chin objects to Magister’s usage of “insurrection.” Which of the two usages of “insurrection” was Magister using ? Colloquial or legal ?
Did you spot the word “violation” ? That shows Magister is trying to make a legal point not a colloquial point, and the usage of insurrection he is employing is the legal one. Leading people to a colloquial insurrection which is not a legal insurrection can hardly be a “violation.” Or if it is a vilation of something, it’s a violation of some law that has nothing to do with the concept of legal insurrection, making Magister’s insurrection reference irrelevant.
Saying the guy here wasn’t an innocent because he was trying an insurrection is not saying he was legally guilty of the crime of insurrection.
In courts, isn't being legally guilty the only sort of being "guilty" that should count for anything?
Magister is making a pretty easy layup argument that this guy is going down for this seemingly light offense because of his connection to the insurrection, and that there was an insurrection.
Spinach Chin's rejoinder is that since he's not charged with the crime of insurrection he can't connected to the insurrection, because there wasn't one.
Your comment generalizes and makes an common semantic error the right makes these days.
There's a conversation happening about generalized culpability, and the criminal upshot of that. To wit, the right claims there is *no* culpability for mere trespass (playing some with the baseline facts on this guy's mental state).
Some on here are trying to conflate a particular crime with the argument for general culpability. They use the fact that they share some vocab to facilitate a switch between the conversational and the legally specific.
It's not a very effective tactic around here, but based on how repeatedly people go back to that dumb well, if you have more outrage than logic in you, I guess it plays.
What is this “generalized culpabilty” of which you speak, kemosabe ?
Are you attempting to describe something legal ? Even if you are accused of participating in a conspiracy, it has to be proved that there is some sort of conspiracy which is criminal andyou still have to be proved individually to have taken part in the conspiracy.
Or are you just bloviating in an op-eddy sort of way ?
Spinach Chin’s rejoinder is that since he’s not charged with the crime of insurrection he can’t connected to the insurrection, because there wasn’t one.
No his rejoinder was that no one had been charged with an insurrection and thus the existence of an insurrection has not been demonstrated as a matter of law.
An analogy would be the driver of the getaway car being found guilty of reckless driving, where his knowing participation in the robbery is taken as evidence of his recklessness.
You and Brett and MAGA and the Spanish Hen’s stupid point is that because the driver wasn’t charged with robbery for whatever reason, he’s not culpable for the reckless driving.
No his rejoinder was that no one had been charged with an insurrection and thus the existence of an insurrection has not been demonstrated as a matter of law.
You agree that that's ridiculous, right? An event can be demonstrated as a matter of law without having to find at least one person guilty of it. The robbery in my example happened. It's on tape. The money's gone. Even if everyone got away, the robbery still legally took place.
Imagine if your home insurance could decline your coverage for theft because no one was ever found guilty, so legally there was no theft. Retarded.
But in that case, if his participation in a robbery was a necessary component to convict him of reckless driving, you would need to prove that there was a robbery and that he took part in it.
An actual robbery according to law, not a handwave-generalized- culpability “robbery”
As to the rejoindering, i was merely pointing out that Sarcastro had misrepresented what the other guy said. Plus ca change.
Maybe you could supplement Magister's claim that an "insurrection" has been found in court with an actual cite to the finding.
"According to law?"
No, according to what you want to be true.
The law does not require magic words. Call J6 badgovernmentoverthrowthing if you want, this guy was intimately involved, did crimes to support it, and is now in trouble.
Under your 'under the law' made up doctrine, for a bank robbery where only one guy was caught, he'd better be charged with bank robbery or else under the law he's free to go.
That's just silly.
Yes, exactly. Proving that the robbery exists and that the driver participated doesn't require charging him with robbery. That's the whole point.
And that's where you get into the question of terminology. Reckless driving doesn't have a "robbery" element, so arguing about whether the evidence would hypothetically support a robbery charge isn't relevant to whether the evidence supports a finding that he participated in the robbery for the purposes of his reckless driving charge.
So how do you prove that his driving was reckless because he was the getaway driver in a robbery without proving there was a robbery ?
If what the prosecutor means was that he was the driver in something that might have been an illegal attempt to make off with other people's money (though we cannot prove that it was an illegal attempt to make of with other people's money, your honor) then why would this driving in connection with a "something" that the prosecution cannot prove was illegal, be evidence of his recklessness ?
No doubt there are plenty of ways to demonstrate recklessness - he was weaving from lane to lane, he was going at 80 and so on. But if you are hanging your hat on the driving being reckless because of its connection to an illegal act, how do you escape having to prove that there was an illegal act that the driver's actions were connected to ?
It doesn't hinge on the robbery being criminal, or even illegal. That's the point. It's enough that it demonstrates a reckless mindset. You could replace the robbery with something patently legal, like a dramatization of a robbery, and it would still work.
Here, it's enough that the insurrection demonstrates knowledge of wrongdoing.
It doesn't matter at all that "insurrections" and "robberies" can be criminal enterprises of their own. That's not the context in which they're being invoked in these cases.
I fail to see how driving as part of the dramization of a robbery could, ipso facto, be evidence of recklessness.
Take Mr Baldwin. Pulling the trigger of a gun while pointing it at someone, while acting the part of someone shooting someone else in a movie is not, ipso facto, evidence of recklessness. You'd have to show that the shooter disregarded the long list of safety procedures that movie makers deploy to prevent this sort of thing happening.
Who said anything about ipso facto?
You're starting to get it, but for some reason your brain is resisting.
That's the real Trump Derangement Syndrome: when your loyalty to Trump contradicts reason and your brain chooses stupidity.
An analogy would be the driver of the getaway car being found guilty of reckless driving, where his knowing participation in the robbery is taken as evidence of his recklessness.
Your hypo did not disclose any indicia of recklessness, other than "knowing participation in a robbery."
If you have supplementary factos that you wish to add to your hypo, feel free. But at present we have just the one - hence we require it to be, ipso facto, evidence of recklessness.
You're making up what you think the law should be, and claiming that's what the law is.
In reality, crimes have elements. Prove the elements, you prove the crime. Simple as.
There need be no 'legal finding' of a bigger crime needed. Here, the bigger crime seems to have driven prosecutorial discretion (IMO). That does not change what this person did, *and pleaded guilty to*.
Sometimes the existence of a bigger crime can go to mens rea, in which case it'll be part of the evidence provided to establish the mens rea element beyond a reasonable doubt. But it's not a standalone element even then.
Trump supporters miseducating themselves on criminal law.
Your hypo did not disclose any indicia of recklessness, other than “knowing participation in a robbery.”
Yes. Because when people are talking about it on blogs, it's easier to say "the getaway driver participated in the robbery" rather than "the getaway driver participated in a scheme to steal cash from a bank wherein other participants brought wespons into the bank and used them to intimidate the staff into turning over the contents of the bank's safe, which they brought out to the car for the purpose of quick transportation away from the scene" even though the prosecutor will have proved something more like the latter.
It would be a mistake to read too much into my word choice, and I endorse Sarcastr0's explanation. Colorado courts did find that there was an insurrection on January 6th. Goodwyn was a member of the Proud Boys, but bailed quickly when he entered the Capitol after encouraging others to do so, so not as much of a threat as the Proud Boys who were convicted of seditious conspiracy.
Colorado courts did find that there was an insurrection on January 6th.
How so ? State law ? Federal law ? And in what proceeding did they "find" an insurrection ? What legal provision required such a finding fo it to have effect ?
Or are you just talking about the judge sounding off in his or her judgement?
Multiple judges, actually; a finding of fact that was not rejected.
In what connection ?
What legal provision were they seeking to apply that required a finding of "insurrection" ?
One will do.
Lee Moore, really determined to quibble. Another MAGA sacrament, it appears. You can look up the court opinions for yourself, and I think you know quite well what they were judging, so you could save us all some time by stating directly what you want to assert.
You served it up as a fact. I doubted it. I asked for a cite. You are not obliged to provide one for my convenience. I am not obliged to accept your alleged fact as true, while it remains an ipse dixit.
We will both survive the impasse. Probably.
In any event, I don’t need to demand that you provide evidence to back up your claim – Sarcastro will be along any moment to do that for me 🙂
So Lee, are you asserting that you have amnesia or dementia and don’t remember the context of the biggest news story in the world of law and politics at the time, only a few months ago? I’m pretty sure you commented on it yourself, extensively.
Wow, my condolences. Must be rough.
I'm saying that I was unaware that :
"Colorado courts did find that there was an insurrection on January 6th"
as Magister has claimed. I invited him/her/it to divvi up a cite.
He/etc declined. As he/etc is fully entitled to do.
I am of course aware that there was a tenth of a BLM riot around the Capitol on Jan 6 2021 and that various excitable and politically motivated folk have absurdly claimed that it constituted an "insurrection." I was unaware that any actual court had actually ruled as such. I am still unaware, pending you or Magister finding a cite.
You were well aware of it just a handful of months ago. I'm tempted to go find your old posts proving as much... but I can't be bothered to feed the sealion any more. And if you legitimately forgot... see your doctor about the early warning signs.
Splendid. So go and find a cite for my prior knowledge of Colorado courts making a legal finding of "insurrection."
Oh ? You prefer to make it up.
If I do will you promise to see a neurologist?
"Judges sounding off" is called "findings."
Like Judge Emmet Sullivan?
"Judge Emmet Sullivan came down pretty hard on former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn during his sentencing hearing on Tuesday. First, Sullivan blasted Flynn in court, particularly for acting as an unregistered foreign agent for Turkey, saying, “Arguably, you sold your country out.”
Strong words, but nothing compared to what came next. Addressing Flynn’s admitted lies about communications with the Russian ambassador, Sullivan asked a prosecutor with the Special Counsel’s Office whether they considered charging Flynn with treason."
"How so ? State law ? Federal law ? And in what proceeding did they 'find' an insurrection ? What legal provision required such a finding fo [sic] it to have effect ?"
The district court for the city and county of Denver conducted a full blown, five day bench trial and found as fact, by clear and convincing evidence, that Donald Trump engaged in insurrection within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, § 3. (Slip op, ¶¶ 241, 298.) But, the district court concluded, Section Three does not apply to the President. (Id., at ¶ 313.) https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/02nd_Judicial_District/Denver_District_Court/11_17_2023%20Final%20Order.pdf
The Supreme Court of Colorado, en banc, held that the district court did not err in concluding that the events at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, constituted an "insurrection" and that the district court did not err in concluding that President Trump "engaged in" that insurrection through his personal actions. Anderson v. Griswold, 543 P.3d 283, 297, 2023 CO 63, ¶ 4 (Colo. 2023).
The U. S. Supreme Court reversed the Colorado Supreme Court on other grounds, but did not question or otherwise address the correctness of the state courts' findings of fact. Trump v. Anderson, 601 U.S. 100 (2024).
I was asking the question in connection with the original argument between Magister and Bumble in connection with people being charged criminally with insurrection, so I was looking for cites from an actual criminal case. Not the constitutional case in Colorado which doesn't involve any criminal charge.
This is not to say that I woud be astonished to discover that Colorado courts (or other state courts) had found "insurrection" in an actual criminal case about J6. The constitutional case shows what sort of things judges can find if they feel like it. It's simply that I was unaware of any criminal cases - and I continue to be.
But looking back to Magister's comment to which I replied, I see that it is wide enough to cover the constitutional case. Which obviously I do remember. I should have explicitly restricted my declaration of unawareness to cases of criminal charges.
The quibbler's quest for a gotcha often goes awry. You've only now added the qualification of criminal cases, and you read too much into my statement that "Lending numbers to a violent insurrection is still a violation".
He did the crimes charged. And he’s not just some schmoe:
According to video footage obtained by the FBI, the defendant, Daniel Goodwyn, entered the Capitol Building on January 6, 2021. While in the building the defendant was called out as “sfthoughtcriminal,” by Anthime Gionet aka “Baked Alaska.”
Goodwyn, who was wearing dark sunglasses, a MAGA hat, and a tan and black jacket approached Gionet. Goodwyn then told Gionet to stop “doxing” him and stated that his name was Daniel Goodwyn. Goodwyn was then directed out of the building by a U.S. Capitol Police officer. Goodwyn then called the officer an “oathbreaker” and yelled for people to get the officer’s badge number as he left. Screenshots from the video footage can be found below:
..
It should also be noted that Goodwyn is a self-proclaimed member of the Proud Boys, a group known to the FBI as being present and disrupting the functions of the U.S. Congress on
January 6, 202. Goodwyn has posted on his social media to that effect as recently as November 2020, commenting specifically on the 2020 Presidential election.
(https://www.justice.gov/d9/goodwyn_-_complaint_statement_of_facts.pdf click through for some petty Internet drama that makes this comments section look pretty like high art. Someone, real-time accuses him of being Antifa.)
Do you think that stuff shouldn’t be crimes? Or shouldn’t be charged in this particular case?
You argue she really shouldn’t have worn that dress, huh.
Also, when you say "crimes", please specify which ones justify the plural.
You're saying the DoD, in charging this crime, did something equivalent to raping this guy.
You're not here for facts, you're here for drama.
No, I am pointing out that you are being your usual immoral, innumerate self. You can’t even count to two.
There was a crime, this person did it. The DoJ got interested in the crime because it was pretty closely related to the attempted coup. This guy was also well into that.
You support no consequences for an attempted coup because it was your side. Don't try to pull any moral high-ground here. You have none.
There has to be an attempted coup in the first place.
It was an attempted coup.
Did you bother to read that stupid article?
Fucking hell, or course they should not be crimes. What are you even saying here?
Entered a public building for 36 seconds and then left when told to by police? THE FUCKING INSOLENCE
Ok Spanish Hen is on record that knowingly entering a restricted public building shouldn’t be a crime.
Interesting… interesting. And I suspect she thinks the Second Amendment guarantees your right to be armed while doing so.
That’ll complicate the Secret Service’s job, that’s for sure!
You do realize that establishing that somebody knowingly entered a building, and that it was a restricted public building, doesn't establish that they knew the building was restricted, right?
Whereas the fact that they left when directed to at least tends to indicate the contrary?
Read the facts, then Brett. I even excerpted and linked them. There is a TON of proof he knew he was doing wrong.
It's been a trip watching you come out against everything from the baseline law of conspiracy, to the concept of guilty pleas, as you attempt to defend you side from any consequences for their actions.
The facts as the DOJ selected ans presented them, you mean.
"The facts as the DOJ selected ans [sic] presented them, you mean."
From the statement of offense, acknowledged by the defendant and his counsel at page 8 on December 20, 2022:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.228018/gov.uscourts.dcd.228018.83.0.pdf
As the Supreme Court has opined:
Brady v. United States, 397 U.S. 742, 748 (1970) [footnote omitted].
Mr. Goodwyn had every right to go to trial and put the government to its burden of proof. He elected not to do so.
Plea bargains legally establish the facts confessed to, but nobody but an idiot thinks they factually establish anything but that the person taking the plea was afraid of the consequences of doing otherwise. Which can be for a lot of reasons other than actual guilt.
I've read that the feds have something like a 98% conviction rate, including plea bargains. You think that's because they're just that good at not fingering the wrong guy? No, it's because they stack charges and bankrupt people with legal expenses, then offer them an out by pleading guilty to a fraction of what they're charged with.
Actually most people think pleading guilty means you did the thing, but also other stuff that you’re getting dropped.
Read the complaint, which establishes independently everything you claim is not established.
Trump’s got you going in for some truly shameful levels of denial and inconsistency.
Like the time you said you never claimed it wasn't an insurrection when you absolutely spent a year doing just that.
You do realize that establishing that somebody knowingly entered a building, and that it was a restricted public building, doesn’t establish that they knew the building was restricted, right?
Oh Bretty Brett Brett… your mind is so desperate to preserve its womblike state of delusion that it’s willing to believe that a crime against “knowingly entering a restricted building” actually means “knowingly entering a building that turns out to be restricted.” I get how someone could enter a building that was unknowingly restricted, but I’m curious Brett, how does someone unknowingly enter a building? Were they playing pin-the-tail-on-the-Democrat and wandered through an open door while blindfolded?
I imagine the evidence showed that the reason he left when directed to by an officer was that he didn’t want to get into a confrontation with an officer! Not because he was like oh huh? I’m not supposed to be in here? Oh no, I thought this was Open House day, when the public is allowed to wander around freely after breaking down the doors and through the windows. So sorry, my mistake!
Why do you think such things were made crimes? Do you think it was the federal government going mad with power?
Yes, if you strip something of all context then you can make it's meaning change. Useful if you want to get big mad; not useful for much else.
"such things were made into crimes"? Are you thinking of the Sarbanes-Oxley charge like that addressed by the Court in Fischer v. United States, where what the Jan 6th defendants did was in fact not criminal? Conduct that is less disorderly than a typical Code Pink disruption of Congress (disruptions that are "just fine with the authorities")?
Is the OP charged with obstructing an official proceeding under SOx? No?
Seems like some you're already at the grasping at straws stage with you legal arguments.
I guess it'll be back to special pleading pretty quick with you.
The complaint at https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/defendants/goodwyn-daniel says he was indicted for “Obstruction of an Official Proceeding” under 18 USC 1512(c)(2). That absolutely is the same Sarb-Ox charge as in Fischer v. United States.
That’s why I asked you to specify which alleged crimes you were talking about — you’re being your usual evasive, goalpost-moving self.
"Daniel Goodwyn pleaded guilty to one count of knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1752(a)(1)."
It's in the OP. Not sure what goalposts you thought I was going for, but it's not this straw-goal you've made!
I like how you switched from what he was charged with to what he plead to, then shit on MP for allegedly moving the goalposts.
Classic!
Mr. Goodwyn was charged with five offenses, including one violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)(2). https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.228018/gov.uscourts.dcd.228018.34.0.pdf He got the benefit of his plea agreement with the dismissal of four charges.
It's a Futile System, didn't Congressman Yo-Balls Blow-men get convicted for literally pulling a Fire Alarm in a crowded Congress? Haven't heard much from him lately? what Club Fed is he serving in?
Frank
The few BLM rioters (that killed way more and destroyed far more property including government property than the Jan 6th Picnic) were bailed out and lionized by Dem politicians and activists. Saw what you will about progs but unlike Republicans they take care of their own no matter how violent and lawbreaking.
No sources just vibes.
No integrity, just isolated demands for rigor. Say David Dorn's name! Victor Cazares Jr, Jessica Doty-Whitaker, and quite a few rioters or looters who were killed by their intended victims (like an unnamed 24-year-old in Philly who blew himself up while targeting an ATM).
You jumped straight to assuming a double standard without establishing one.
Your moral dudgeon rings hollow when it's all vibes and whattaboutism.
If not for double standards, you would have no standards. You complain about "vibes" but you're hardcore for the vibe-only party. I point to concrete facts and events, and you still whine that "it's all vibes".
I would tell you to be better, but at this point it is clear that you are constitutionally incapable of that.
Still not establishing anything. Moving farther away from argument at all, and into empty insults and bloviating.
One might call this performative...signaling. Of a kind of twisted virtue.
David Dorn was killed by a looter, who was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. What does he have to do with this discussion in any way?
It’s a Futile System, didn’t Congressman Yo-Balls Blow-men get convicted for literally pulling a Fire Alarm in a crowded Congress? Haven’t heard much from him lately? what Club Fed is he serving in?
Frank
The DOJ, its prosecutors and the DC courts are making a mockery of the idea that justice exists in America.
I’m impressed and encouraged by your newfound sympathy for the mistreatment of convicted criminals in this country. A true bleeding heart. Bravo!
I’m impressed and encouraged by your position supposedly being ‘anti insurrection’ but you don’t care about actual murderers and insurrectionists like CHOP who actually take and hold territory as a self declared nation for a significant amount of time and destroy government buildings. But a guy walking into a building is a step too far. Isn’t that what you constantly accuse conservatives of? Being harsh on insignificant crimes while not caring about big ones?
CHOP was not a “self-declared nation” lol. Where are you getting this crap? It was a self-described “organized protest.” You could probably call it an insurrection against Seattle at most. Definitely not against the United States.
But anyway, who says I don’t care? There were two murders, neither of which appeared to have anything to do with the protest (other than taking advantage of the chaos), although there is some suspicion that one of them may have been carried out by right-wing counter-protesters. Anyway, there was no interference with the police or other emergency responders. One of the perpetrators was sentenced to 14 years. The other was never found, sadly.
Seattle also prosecuted a bunch of people, including the one guy who attempted to damage a government building. (No government buildings were in fact damaged, let alone “destroyed.”)
CHOP was not a “self-declared nation” lol. Where are you getting this crap? It was a self-described “organized protest.” You could probably call it an insurrection against Seattle at most. Definitely not against the United States.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The autonomous zone was declared from all government. Some government services may have been provided but this did not count as them acknowledging them as the rightful government. Where did you read that the feds were magically exempt?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But anyway, who says I don’t care? There were two murders,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually the death toll is 20-30ish if you talk about the BLM riots in general. And that is not counting all the deaths from the consequences of BLM defunding the police. Which would probably push it into the hundreds or thousands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
neither of which appeared to have anything to do with the protest (other than taking advantage of the chaos),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Unlike you I don’t have to use my psychic abilities to conclude you usually don’t use pepper spray on someone you intend to kill (if it was even an intentional act by a MAGA supporter) so using your logic, thats zero deaths for Jan 6th and 20-30ish for the mostly ‘peaceful BLM). Other than trump supporters of course. They don’t count as you and other leftoids here have repeatedly emphasized.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
although there is some suspicion that one of them may have been carried out by right-wing counter-protesters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And There are some ‘suspicions’ government plants participated in Jan 6th too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Anyway, there was no interference with the police or other emergency responders. One of the perpetrators was sentenced to 14 years. The other was never found, sadly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Because they never were pursed like the Jan 6th protestors who were locked up and persecuted far in excess per capita.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Seattle also prosecuted a bunch of people, including the one guy who attempted to damage a government building. (No government buildings were in fact damaged, let alone “destroyed.”)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wrong
https://www.newsweek.com/portland-protesters-damage-cost-federal-buildings-1566821
Again
https://www.courthousenews.com/two-federal-courthouses-in-la-damaged-during-protest/
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/26/oakland-protesters-set-fire-courthouse-smash-windows/112430482/
I don’t know why you’re limiting it to Seattle (which only was spared because officers got there in time to protect the buildings) when I was talking about the whole BLM riots.
The autonomous zone was declared from all government. Some government services may have been provided but this did not count as them acknowledging them as the rightful government. Where did you read that the feds were magically exempt?
It was only anti-cop, not anti-government. And even then, only weakly. (As I mentioned, they welcomed the cops in the context of actual crimes.) Where did you read otherwise?
Actually the death toll is 20-30ish if you talk about the BLM riots in general.
This is your very first mention of BLM. It probably surprises you to find out that BLM was none too happy with CHOP and distanced themselves from it. You’re just all over the place. Next you’ll be saying that you were actually referring to Antifa.
What organization is this BLM that you say distanced themselves from CHAZ? Who was the authorized spokesperson making that declaration?
Sealioning.
Read the wiki. It says, as if you actually care.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest
Where does Wikipedia say which organization distanced themselves from CHAZ? Wikipedia talks about anonymous "black protesters" and "Black activists" -- are you saying unnamed people are authorized to speak for BLM as a whole just because of their skin color?
BLM is a brand; it’s going to contain multitudes. There are no High Elders to consult.
So sorry for your sealioning plans on that front.
But honest and sincere praise for reading my liked source. It's a rare thing these days, and I appreciate the engagement.
BLM is a brand; it’s going to contain multitudes. There are no High Elders to consult.
Much like the "far right" and the "white supremacists" - except their multitudes are not very multitudinous.
White supremacy and far right are ideologies.
As demonstrated from Summer 2020 and through till today, BLM doesn't have that kind of throughline.
But Michael P's demand would be tendentious as applied to your examples as well - he's demanding an authorizes representative disclaim CHOP or else he's assuming guilt by association.
He's pretty dumb, eh?
You could have just agreed that "BLM was none too happy with CHOP and distanced themselves from it" is meaningless bullshit from the start, Gaslight0.
I could, if I were purely instrumentalist and didn't care about facts over winning an argument on the Internet.
Funny you should advise such a course, Michael.
It’s a Futile System, didn’t Congressman Yo-Balls Blow-men get convicted for literally pulling a Fire Alarm in a crowded Congress? Haven’t heard much from him lately? what Club Fed is he serving in?
Frank
Why are you glitching out.
It's another joke case in un-American lawfare against Goodwyn.
To further the joke, Prime Minister Keir Starmer and Police Commissioner Mark Rowley are criminalizing the human right of communication with other people in their latest exertion of un-British behavior. To think my ancestors came from there is shocking. Right minded Americans should consider saving Britain from those scoundrels.
See this from The Bee via Instapundit:
https://x.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1821981029277581688
You're not allowed to reference The Bee, it's too funny. Please tell me your first name is Buzz and you're a honey manufacturer.
The Bee is satire, not comedy.
While satire is often humorous it certainly doesn't have to be.
"Satire
noun
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
i don't think they meant it to be funny.
This clip kind of makes a similar point, but is meant to be funny:
https://youtu.be/h242eDB84zY?feature=shared
Ok a) you have a serious humor deficiency if you think The Bee, whose tagline is "Fake News You Can Trust," didn't intend that piece to be funny.
And b) Mr. Bumble's ban on citing The Bee has nothing to do with its content. You, for example, aren't allowed to cite Better Cabins & Pipe Bombs.
What about "Russia Sends Troops To Liberate Oppressed British People From Communist Rule" do you think was meant to be funny? It seems ironic and cutting to me, with no laughs intended. Would be funny if Russia actually invaded Britain? Is that what you think was meant to be funny?
Are you serious? Y’all are really this bereft of humor? I mean… it explains an awful lot, yet I still can’t quite understand what the experience of reading The Bee and The Onion must be like for you… I guess it’s like being colorblind and I’ll just never know what it’s like to be humorblind.
What about “Russia Sends Troops To Liberate Oppressed British People From Communist Rule” do you think was meant to be funny?
Well, a) the entire conceit, but to give you some highlights, you’ve got this quote attributed to Putin:
And let’s not forget about London resident Wellington Hamptonshire! That’s worth at least a ha’chuckle by itself.
LOL 'The Babylon Bee isn't supposed to be funny!' says Kaz, to defend the Babylon Bee.
No greater indictment of it's shittiness have I seen.
That's not what he said at all, and all of us know it. The only question is why you are being such an asshole when lying about it.
Huh? That's exactly what he said! And Sarcastr0's right oh my god the lulz...
I presume he didn't actually read Kaz's comment, just wanted to yell at me.
The mistake people are making is in believing that the concept of "rule of law" still exists in this country -- it doesn't.
When they steal the NEXT election, the response likely will be a bit more effective -- there is no Federal law that you MUST drive truckloads of food to the urban cesspools. And when the food riots start, things will truly get interesting...
Dr. Ed, predicting 15 of the next 1 civil wars.
Hell yeah Ed's back on the Trucker strike train.
I love it when he plays the hits.
If the internet had existed in 1963, could MLK's computer have been monitored after his release from jail to make sure he wasn't spreading any 'disinformation' about Jim Crow?
I think the answer should be 'of course not'.
That I agree with MLK and disagree with the Jan6 loons doesn't mean the situations are different. We - all of us - get to spread our disinformation. If you live in a country that might, even once, elect a bad government you really don't want to allow suppression of disinformation, because your views might be the ones suppressed. I sure bet the Alabama government of 1963 thought everything MLK said was dangerous misinformation.
The FBI did engage in surveillance (and harassment) of Martin Luther King, Jr. which was authorized in 1963, including wiretapping, on claims of communist influence in the civil rights movement, declaring King "the most dangerous Negro". It was part of the "weaponization of government" that Republicans never actually cared about.
Goodwyn was a member of the Proud Boys, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to monitor his online activity, if only for contact with that group, whose leadership was convicted of seditious conspiracy, during supervised release. But maybe they should just have kept him in prison for all 12 months instead.
Eugene... it's getting harder and harder to believe that you're picking these cases out of a concern over free speech as opposed to their culture-war value as clickbait.
If you're gonna do all culture war all the time, at least try to be more even-handed about it, or you just come across as a shill like Josh, David, and Steven. For example, why no comment on the public school teachers fighting for their rights?
He has posted about how school teachers' First Amendment rights stop essentially when they walk onto the job. The government gets broad latitude to choose how teachers in public schools conduct their jobs. If you don't like that, send your kids to private school instead.
If you were paying attention rather than having a partisan wank, you might have noticed.
He has posted about how school teachers’ First Amendment rights stop essentially when they walk onto the job.
Exactly. He did not post about Katie Wood, who had her First Amendment rights in the classroom vindicated in federal court. It even has a trans twist. Click clicketty click click!
Maybe there's a reason not to jump to write about a ruling that starts "Once again, the state of Florida has a First Amendment problem. Of late, it has happened so frequently, some might say you can set your clock by it" and says that the state of Florida is what claims it can redefine a transgender person's identity. Those things suggest a certain improper animus and lousy logic.
Eugene loves pointing out improper animus and lousy logic in First Amendment cases, especially ones about trans people! What are you even talking about?
I suspect his concern about posting it was that the logic is actually sound.
I think it would be very helpful if you provided a list of topics EV should never blog about.
Even though he has posted litterly dozens of innocuous posts about jusges restricting Facebook posts about neighbors, or ex-spouses, teachers and professors being disciplined for speech, students being suspended for gun or Trump related atire, I guess this goes way to far.
That was true once upon a time. I sense the mix has changed recently. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
The mix always changes, but you're hypersensitive to it now because we are in a political campaign.
Or perhaps the mix has changed because we are in a political campaign.
I'm a little bit confused, say they leave the computer monitoring in place, then Goodwyn posts wall to wall posts claiming the 2020 election was stolen from Trump, then what's the court think they can do about it?
Send him back to jail?
Maybe extradite him to the UK?
"I’m a little bit confused, say they leave the computer monitoring in place, then Goodwyn posts wall to wall posts claiming the 2020 election was stolen from Trump, then what’s the court think they can do about it?"
I don't know, but if that happened during the period of supervised release, I surmise that the Court could hold a hearing to determine whether to revoke his supervised release and resentence him.
Resentence him to what? How many days of imprisonment do you think are appropriate for each second of unauthorized presence in a building? He already spent 60 days in jail for 36 seconds in the Capitol.
Not my area of law, but it really does look to me like the dissent makes a pretty compelling argument that shitty speech isn't enough to justify this restriction.
But I note that the righties on here are going more for this guy didn't do a crime special pleading.
And just what is "your area of law"? I thought you were a law school dropout.
I graduated cum laude, but you’re right I don’t have any legal area of specialty. In law school, I gravitated towards procedure stuff (Advanced civ pro, evidence, privilege, federal courts, admin), and civic stuff (First Amendment, legislation, jurisprudence, sexuality and the law [now quite out of date]).
In practice, I bumped around a lot disliking every particular legal discipline I tried. And now I’m nigh a decade out of date in practice. Though I still do some admin and some legislative analysis sometimes. I'm not the most talented at either in the office, even if I'm the only one with a degree.
So I don’t pull a credentialism and try and cede to the actually practicing folks on here when I can.
Even if you had been right about Sarcrast0 dropping out, by this logic Larry Page isn't allowed to call himself a search engine specialist since he dropped out of his Ph.D. program.
It’s a Futile System, didn’t Congressman Yo-Balls Blow-men get convicted for literally pulling a Fire Alarm in a crowded Congress? Haven’t heard much from him lately? what Club Fed is he serving in?
Frank
I wish what I see happening were not so persuasive that MAGA advocates want to lay groundwork for a repeat of J6, but better planned and better organized. They seem especially hostile to the notion that government should surveil already-identified criminals provably involved in the Capitol attack.
There is no reason to suppose trivial-looking involvement with violence at the Capitol defines the limit of criminal involvement evidence might show in any particular case. Much of the criminal history of J6 occurred elsewhere, both before and after the violent attack. Some J6 criminals who never went to the Capitol at all have been justly charged and sentenced to long prison terms.
If Trump is planning another attempt to overthrow election results, I want the Biden administration to take proactive action against whatever criminal plotting can be proved, with prompt arrests and criminal charges. If defendants are judged a continuing danger, then they should be jailed without bail pending trial.
Efforts to suppress criminal plotting against the United States during the next election should not be left until after crimes with intent to overthrow American constitutionalism have been completed. If crimes are being committed now, then arrests should be happening now, charges should be filed, and trials should be scheduled.
It would be a mistake for the Justice Department to let inevitable charges of election interference make them timid. A decision to quail would be a worse election interference than a decision to remain alert and proactive would be.
These are not normal times, and this is an election which has been interfered with massively already—not least by the corrupt American judicial system itself. Restoration of an active and effective role for the Justice Department is a means to reduce already-ongoing interference, not to increase it.
The complaint cites a personal statement by the defendant that he was inside for a couple of minutes.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/defendants/goodwyn-daniel
I think the dissent somewhat downgrades the nature of the crime -- he was part of an insurrection that stopped the peaceful transfer of power. His role was minor and not using force & following the command to leave is notable. Still, the whole context warrants comment, including the possibility that something like this will happen again.
The dissent still raises significant concerns & at the very least he warranted a more substantive reply.
"...he was part of an insurrection that stopped the peaceful transfer of power."
No he wasn't (NO ONE has been charged with insurrection) and no it didn't.
Joe Biden was sworn in as the 46th President on January 20, 2021.
The law is not one of magic words. The crime called insurrection is not the same as the common term insurrection.
Some years ago I got caught in the trap of thinking seditious conspiracy is not about speech. It's not!
There's some interesting philosophy to be had about the different uses of language in conversation, constitutions, and statutes. I don't think that interests you much, except to abuse it by conflating them.
So the may 29th riot was an insurrection?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/politics/trump-underground-bunker-white-house-protests/index.html
The decision to physically move the President came as protesters confronted Secret Service officers outside the White House for hours on Friday – shouting, throwing water bottles and other objects at the line of officers, and attempting to break through the metal barriers.
Of course not! Only conservatives can insurrect. Democrats are merely peacefully protesting.
It's about criminal terms and common terms, you see? This parse makes a distinction where there otherwise isn't one and also conveniently supports my predisposed beliefs.
Were they "attempting to take control of the government?"
Yes.
Yeah ok. Well then sure, insurrection.
As an article co-written by William Baude states "specific series of events leading up to and culminating in the January 6, 2021 attack qualifies as an insurrection."
(THE SWEEP AND FORCE OF SECTION THREE)
Being "part" of something doesn't mean the person has to be charged with a crime by that name. A person can, e.g., be "part of a murder" and not be charged with murder themselves.
The process was stopped. It didn't stop forever.
...one man's opinion.
Is Baude stupid and evil?
Three words: "one man's opinion". Were did you derive "stupid and evil"?
Bumble has a short memory, having previously stated that to
would imply being "stupid and evil".
Of course I was responding to your comment and speaking about you and not Baude.
One can have diverse opinions about people, but to pretend that "stupid and evil" came out of nowhere is pretty stupid, although Bumble is too stupid to actually achieve any evil.
"Stupid and evil" came from you!
How is Magister different from Baude such that Baude's opinion is just an opinion, but Magister's makes him (not just the comment but the dude himself) stupid and evil?
Just to toss it in, if “one man’s opinion” is a reference to Baude, as I said, the piece was co-authored. It would be two men’s opinions. [The opinion itself is not idiosyncratic, obviously.]
Off-topic, Baude was also on the presidential commission on the Supreme Court, which in part talked about term limits.
It might be interesting if he wrote a post about Biden’s proposals.
Washington Post, 6/28:
Internet monitoring resumes for Proud Boy accused of spreading misinformation
Hey, I've got an idea. "With the 2024 presidential election approaching," let's monitor everyone's digital activity! And, if we don't like their "rhetoric," let's lock 'em up! We've got to protect our democracy!!!
"I don’t want to chill anyone’s First Amendment rights,” Judge Reggie B. Walton said at a Thursday hearing. But with the 2024 presidential election approaching, he said, Goodwyn is still..." exercising his first amendment rights, so of course I have no choice but to chill them.
They already are dude. That's what CISA does. It's filled with a whole bunch of righteous Sarcastr0 types "protecting our country's Cognitive Infrastructure". They think managing your opinion is a matter of National Security.
Meanwhile, their left hand are similarly declaring these as public health matters by describing "wrong think" as social determinants of health.
So it's a Public Health Crisis and Important to National Security that a bunch of Sarcastr0's police your thoughts.
Walton doesn't want to "chill" the right to free speech, he wants to eradicate it totally.
The case will be moot by the time the Supreme Court can review it.
Why would this case make it to the SC?
The Supreme Court would rather hear a free speech case than most of what it gets asked to do. Take petition 23-1001, for example:
Plaintiff's antitrust and/or patent case against Qualcomm was dismissed. This can't be because he is a serial filer of meritless or frivilous complaints, as the court below ruled. It can only be a racist conspiracy.
The whole idea behind Internet monitoring in this instance is the idea, bordering on nonsensical, that promoting Badthink®™ causes people to do Insurrections®™.
Some may argue this applies to Patrice Cullors, Nikole Hannah-Jones, Charles M. Blow, and many others. After all, they chanted, “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot”. They claimed that the police habitually hunt down and gun down unarmed Black men. They claimed that the cirminal justice system is systemically racist. And some people rioted on this basis.
It would apply if this principle was enforced in an even-handed manner. But the same side that says that Trump was promoting Badthink®™ also believe that Cullors, Jones, and Blow were promoting Goodthink®™, and those who riioted based on this Goodthink®™ were not engaging in Insurrection®™, but fighting White Supremacy®™
Goodwyn was just exercising his free speech rights. His prosecution was for his political opinions. President Trump will pardon him in Jan. 2025.
What will you do should Trump not win the election, Roger?
I've well learned not to count my electoral chickens before the hatch.
You seem to have put all your eggs in the Trump's gonna get elected basked.
What if those chickens come home to roost?
The Democrat judge wanted to monitor his computer for a year for Wrong Think?
Democrats are fucking tyrants.
"The Democrat judge wanted to monitor his computer for a year for Wrong Think?"
How do you claim to know Judge Walton's political party affiliation? He was appointed to the bench by three Republican presidents and to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court by Chief Justice Roberts (who is himself a highly partisan Republican). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Walton
A well-reasoned argument based on basic constitutional rights argued by the minority judge, and totally ignored by the politically motivated majority. More decisions like this and you will go the way of Canada, where the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms only value is as toilet paper if printed on soft enough material.
It’s a Futile System, didn’t Congressman Yo-Balls Blow-men get convicted for literally pulling a Fire Alarm in a crowded Congress? Haven’t heard much from him lately? what Club Fed is he serving in?
Frank
With Khelif’s latest win, she is guaranteed at least a bronze medal.
“I dedicate this medal to the world, and to all the Arabs and I tell you, ‘Long live Algeria!’” she told reporters in a wild scrum after the match.
Khelif appeared to fight back tears and had an Algerian flag wrapping around her back as she spoke.
“I want to tell the entire world that I am a female, and I will remain a female,” she said.
Then he scratched his Balls
Frank