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The Supreme Court's Dubious Use of History in Department of State v. Munoz
Justice Amy Coney Barrett's majority opinion includes significant errors, and violates some of her own precepts against excessive reliance on questionable history.

In its important recent immigration decision in Department of State v. Munoz, the Supreme Court ruled there are virtually no constitutional limits on the federal government's power to bar non-citizen spouses of American citizens from entering the country. In the process, Justice Amy Coney Barrett's majority opinion (written on behalf of herself and four other conservative justices) commits serious errors in historical analysis, and violates Justice Barrett's own well-taken strictures about the appropriate use of history in constitutional analysis.
Sandra Munoz is a US citizen whose husband, Luis Asencio-Cordero (a citizen of El Salvador) was barred from entering the US to come live with her, because US consular officials claimed he had ties to the MS-13 criminal drug gang (which connecton Ascencio-Cordero denies). Munoz filed suit, claiming that, given that the constitutional right to marriage was implicated, the State Department was at the very least required to reveal the evidence that supposedly proved her husband's connection to the gang.
In arguing that there is no originalist or historical justification for US citizens to claim a right to entry for their non-citizen spouses, Justice Barrett cites historical evidence from the 1790s:
From the beginning, the admission of noncitizens into the country was characterized as "of favor [and] not of right." J. Madison, Report of 1800 (Jan. 7, 1800)…. (emphasis added); see also 2 Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, p. 238 (M. Farrand ed. 1911) (recounting Gouverneur Morris's observation that "every Society from a great nation down to a club ha[s] the right of declaring the conditions on which new members should be admitted"); Debate on Virginia Resolutions, in The Virginia Report of 1799–1800, p. 31 (1850) ("[B]y the law of nations, it is left in the power of all states to take such measures about the admission of strangers as they think convenient"). Consistent with this view, the 1798 Act Concerning Aliens gave the President complete discretion to remove "all such aliens as he shall judge dangerous to the peace and safety of the United States." 1 Stat. 571 (emphasis deleted). The Act made no exception for spouses—or, for that matter, other family members.
Almost everything in this passage is either false or misleading. The quote from James Madison's Report of 1800, does not, in fact, indicate that Madison believed the federal government has blanket authority to exclude immigrants for whatever reason it wants. Far from it. Madison was arguing that the Alien Friends Act of 1798 (part of the notorious Alien and Sedition Acts) was unconstitutional because the federal government lacks such power. Here is the passage where the quote occurs:
One argument offered in justification of this power exercised over aliens, is, that the admission of them into the country being of favor not of right, the favor is at all times revokable.
To this argument it might be answered, that allowing the truth of the inference, it would be no proof of what is required. A question would still occur, whether the constitution had vested the discretionary power of admitting aliens in the federal government or in the state governments.
Note that Madison does not even admit that admission of immigrants is "a favor." He just assumes it is for the sake of argument, then goes on to argue that the Alien Act is unconstitutional regardless, because the relevant power isn't given to the federal government (this is what he argues in the rest of the Alien Act section of his Report). The 1798 Act Concerning Aliens, also quoted by Justice Barrett, is the very same Alien Friends Act denounced as unconstitutional by Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and many others. Opposition to the Act was so widespread that no one was ever actually deported under it, before Thomas Jefferson allowed it to expire upon becoming president in 1801.
I think Jefferson and Madison were right to argue the Alien Friends Act was unconstitutional. But, at the very least, legislation whose constitutionality was so widely questioned at the time cannot be relied on as strong evidence of the original scope of federal power in this area.
The quote by Gouverneur Morris at the Constitutional Convention is not about immigration restrictions at all. It is part of a speech defending his proposal that people must be required to have been citizens for at least fourteen years before being eligible to become US senators. The proposal was rejected by the Convention (which eventually decided on a nine-year requirement). It was denounced by several other prominent members of the Convention, including James Madison and Benjamin Franklin. Madison argued it was "unnecessary, and improper" and would "give a tincture of illiberality to the Constitution" (see Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, Vol. 2, pp. 235-37 (Max Farrand, ed., 1911)).
Morris's speech in favor of this failed proposal is not a reliable guide to the sentiments of the Convention. Still less is it indicative of the original meaning understood by the general public at the time of ratification (which is the relevant criterion for most originalists, including Justice Barrett, who has said the original meaning of a constitutional provision is "the meaning that it had at the time people ratified it").
Finally, the Debate on the Virginia Resolutions in the Virginia Report of 1799-1800, also quoted by Justice Barrett, was a record of debates in the Virginia state legislature over the Virginia Resolution (drafted by Madison) a statement asserting that the Alien Friends Act is unconstitutional. The passage Barrett quotes is from a speech by a dissenting member of the Virginia state legislature opposing the Resolution. The majority, however, sided with Madison.
Given this history, the debate over the Resolution cannot be relied on to justify virtually unlimited federal power over immigration by spouses of citizens, or any other migrants. And because Madison and the majority in the state legislature argued that the entire Alien Friends Act was unconstitutional, they understandably did not bother to argue that there was a separate issue regarding exclusion of non-citizen spouses of citizens. To my knowledge, no such case involving spouses came up during the short time the Act was in force.
Justice Barrett also relies on dubious 19th century history:
The United States had relatively open borders until the late 19th century. But once Congress began to restrict immigration, "it enacted a complicated web of regulations
that erected serious impediments to a person's ability to bring a spouse into the United States." Din, 576 U. S., at 96 (plurality opinion). One of the first federal immigration statutes, the Immigration Act of 1882, required executive officials to "examine" noncitizens and deny "permi[ssion] to land" to "any convict, lunatic, idiot, or any person unable to take care of himself or herself without becoming a public charge." 22 Stat. 214. The Act provided no exception for citizens' spouses. And when Congress drafted a successor statute that expanded the grounds of inadmissibility, it again gave no special treatment to the marital relationship….
This legislation was enacted almost a century after the Founding. So its relevance to original meaning is highly questionable, at best. Moreover, it was adopted in an era of widspread nativist and racist hostility to Chinese immigration, at a time when the Supreme Court also upheld a wide range of domestic racially discriminatory legislation, as well. The Immigration Act of 1882 was enacted by the same Congress and in the same year as the deeply racist Chinese Exclusion Act. The latter legislation was upheld by the Supreme Court in a terrible 1889 decision that completely ignored the arguments Madison and other Founders had raised against a broad federal power over immigration. The immigration policies and legal decisions of this era were part and parcel of the same mentality that also led to Plessy v. Ferguson.
In her recent concurring opinion in United States v. Rahimi, an important Second Amendment case, Justice Barrett warned about careless reliance on post-ratification history in constitutional interpretation:
[F]or an originalist, the history that matters most is the history surrounding the ratification of the text; that backdrop illuminates the meaning of the enacted law. History (or tradition) that long postdates ratification does not serve that function. To be
sure, postenactment history can be an important tool. For example, it can "reinforce our understanding of the Constitution's original meaning"; "liquidate ambiguous constitutional provisions"; provide persuasive evidence of the original meaning; and, if stare decisis applies, control the outcome…. But generally speaking, the use of postenactment history requires some justification other than originalism simpliciter….As I have explained elsewhere, evidence of "tradition" unmoored from original meaning is not binding law… And scattered cases or regulations pulled from history may have little bearing on the meaning of the text.
Here, Barrett relies heavily on "evidence of 'tradition' unmoored from original meaning" and "scattered… regulations" enacted more than a century after ratification. In fairness, the nineteenth century laws in question were enacted closer in time to the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868, which is where the Supreme Court has said the right to marry arises from (albeit, when it comes to the federal government, the right is read back into the Fifth Amendment). But the 1880s was still a long time after ratification. Moreover, the laws in question were enacted at a time when racial and ethnic bigotry undermined enforcement of much of the original meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, and such bigotry heavily influenced immigration legislation and jurisprudence.
Barrett also relies on the history in part because the Supreme Court's test for whether the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment protect an unenumerated right (like the right to marry) require the right to be "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition." But a combination of badly misinterpreted 1790s history and 19th century history heavily tinged by racial and ethnic bigotry are poor means for applying that test.
As Justice Barrett recognizes later in her opinion, in later years Congress did in fact enact legislation giving spouses of US citizens a presumptive right to enter the United States, though there are exceptions, such as the one for "unlawful activities" at issue in this case. That suggests there may in fact be a historically rooted right to spousal migration, even if not an absolute one (most other constitutional rights aren't completely absolute, either).
Overall, I think Amy Coney Barrett has been a pretty good justice since her controversial appointment just before the 2020 election. But Munoz is far from her finest hour.
The Court's badly flawed handling of history doesn't necessarily mean the bottom-line decision was wrong. Even the dissenting liberal justices agreed the government was justified in denying Asencio-Cordero a visa, reasoning that the possible ties to MS-13 were a sufficient justification to outweigh the right to marry in an immigration case (and, as Justice Gorsuch notes in a concurring opinion, the government did eventually reveal the evidence in question; he argues the Court should have resolved the case on that basis, without reaching the constitutional issues). Alternatively, one can argue the right to marriage doesn't necessarily include a broad right to have your spouse present in the same jurisdiction. There may be other possible justifications for the outcome, as well.
But the Supreme Court should not have relied on a badly flawed interpretation of post-enactment history to justify a sweeping power to run roughshod over marriage rights in immigration cases, even in situations where the right to marry might otherwise impose a constraint. That's especially true given that similar reasoning could potentially be used to apply to other constitutional rights. If the Alien Friends Act of 1798 and 1880s immigration legislation qualify as relevant evidence, they could be used to justify almost any immigration restriction.
Obviously, Munoz is far from the first Supreme Court decision where the justices effectively exempted immigration restrictions from constitutional constraints that apply to other federal laws. Trump v. Hawaii, the 2018 travel ban decision is another recent example, and there are other such cases going back to the 19th century. But Munoz is still notable for its particularly slipshod historical analysis.
UPDATE: I have edited this post to note Justice Gorsuch did not join the majority opinion. He concurred in judgment only.
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Somin has long argued that the federal government has no power over immigration; specifically, that regulating immigration is not among the limited, enumerated powers that were delegated to the federal government by the states.
Obviously, he is in a very small minority with that view. But if it were correct, that would mean the states have power to regulate immigration, including from other states, and can decide who may permanently reside there.
The post above also reflects Somin's enthusiasm for mind-reading and peering into the subjective thoughts and feelings that supposedly motivated any law or government action, and declaring illegitimate anything that he deems tainted by thoughtcrimes of "bigotry." This view is, IMO, worse than his view of the power to regulate immigration, but is unfortunately much more widely accepted.
Really? You think it takes mind-reading to figure out that the Chinese Exclusion Act was tainted by bigotry?
Except it doesn't matter if it was. Congress's immigration power is plenary, and Anthony Kennedy's animus standard can't apply to it. Though immigration advocates keep trying. That's what the challenge to Trump's executive order was all about.
It matters for deciding how much the Chinese Exclusion Act reflects the original meaning of the Constitution. Or do you think the Constitution itself is tainted by bigotry?
To people like Somin, anything less that open borders is bigotry. So yes, the Constitution is tainted.
"It matters for deciding how much the Chinese Exclusion Act reflects the original meaning of the Constitution."
Are you saying that since the Chinese Exclusion Act was tainted by bigotry, this shows that the Constitution does not contain a provision stating that laws tainted by bigotry are unconstitutional? If so, I agree.
Me Chinese
Me play joke
Me put Covid in your throat!
If wanting to keep out MS13 members makes me racist well then I guess I'm racist. If you guys love international criminal gang members so much then you and Somin can buy a house overseas and go live with them there.
How ML could write this in a blog where Blackman exists will be studies on experts in shameless myopia for decades.
It would seem obvious to me that you can't circumvent immigration law simply by marrying a citizen.
We might choose to give preference to spouses of citizens, but that's a different thing.
If the marriage is a fraud, sure. Otherwise, there's no reason not to bring a spouse in.
I think allowing the government to decide which marriages are frauds is a greater evil than allowing them to decide to exclude non-citizen spouses.
But I think the Court here erred in not requiring the government to show cause.
I'd certainly agree with that.
There are a lot of reasons to deny a foreign spouse entry. Criminal conduct being a big one. Lots of foreign spouses of US citizens barred from entry due to crimes in their home countries that make then inadmissible to the United States.
Marriage does not overcome the standard rules for admission. If you're inadmissible, you don't get in. Immigration is a privilege, not a right. The court made the correct decision. No one is entitled to entry into the USA except for a citizen.
Oh, and by the way, this is the exact same rule pretty much in every other country in the world. Countries as a rule do not import criminals.
I got the impression the complaint is that the government refuses to prove he's a criminal, just relying on secret information. And unlike illegal immigrants, he was trying to follow the rules. Why shouldn't the government have to prove their assertion?
Rules for thee but not for me -- governments everywhere.
Yes, which is entirely legitimate for a extraterritorial alien. Having a citizen spouse does not overcome that.
Note what I am not saying: someone previously admitted with some legal status. Once you become a "US person", then certainly additional due process rights apply. Including whether the government has to back up its assertions.
Under current law, marrying a citizen doesn't give you a get-out-of-jail-free card. Nor does your citizen spouse have particular rights to challenge that on your behalf, because of a constitutional right to same-sex marriage.
Immigration advocacy groups keep trying to get their foot in the door to challenge executive immigration decisions in court that keep non-citizens out. That's a bad idea that hopefully will never be countenanced. In other immigration matters, it's what has caused us to lose control of the border (Flores consent decree).
"Yes, which is entirely legitimate for a extraterritorial alien."
No, I don't think the reliance on secret information is ever entirely legitimate. Apparently the government didn't care to stick with that either, because they did eventually cough up the reasons: "In addition to the affidavit, the State
Department provided the District Court with confidential
law enforcement information, which it reviewed in camera,
identifying Ascencio-Cordero as a member of MS–13.
Satisfied, the District Court granted summary judgment to
the State Department."
I think our government relies entirely too much on "We have secret evidence, take our word for it.", in for instance the No Fly Zone list. Maybe in rare instances this is justified, but it should be strongly disfavored.
"A question would still occur, whether the constitution had vested the discretionary power of admitting aliens in the federal government or in the state governments."
I'll just note in passing, that Madison confirms that, if the federal government lacks the power to regulate immigration, then the state governments possess it.
Not something Somin usually wants to admit.
Also worth noting that it is the Report of 1800, which, conspicuously, is prior to 1808.
"The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person."
So, what did the Report say?
"“The act (concerning aliens) is said to be unconstitutional, because to remove aliens, is a direct breach of the Constitution which provides, by the 9th section of the 1st article: that the migration or importation of such persons as any of the states shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress, prior to the year 1808.”"
But I can understand why Somin wouldn't want to draw attention to this part of the Report, since it is now long past 1808...
"I’ll just note in passing, that Madison confirms that, if the federal government lacks the power to regulate immigration, then the state governments possess it."
I guess it's not that fashionable, but we don't really need to rely on writings outside the Constitution, since the 10th Amendment is pretty plain on this point.
(I'll caveat this by saying I agree that the Federal Government has the right to regulate immigration, though--otherwise the whole system would be completely unworkable.)
As far as the federal judiciary are concerned, though, amendments 9 and 10 are non-existent. They flatly refuse to apply them.
The Migration and Importation clause simply makes no sense at all unless you assume the federal government had some authority to regulate immigration; Why tell a government lacking a power that it can't exercise it until a certain date? So Somin's position on federal immigration power is simply insupportable as an originalist matter, and I suspect he knows it. And doesn't care...
Professor Somin has a very uphill battle here. Extraterritorial aliens have no constitutional rights, and can be admitted or excluded, and once admitted deported, for any reason or no reason or a bad reason so far as the Constitution is concerned.
A key problem with his constitutional argument is that the 18th century constitutional debate was about who had the power to decide – the federal government or the states – and not about the scope of the decision power. It’s now been settled pretty much beyond dispute that that power lies with the federal government, not the states. Indeed, Professor Somin himself has pressed this point forcefully in arguing against state laws that affect immigration, at least when they impose more restrictions than the Feds.
A spouse is in the same position vis-a-vis the federal government as a spouse was with respect to their spouse’s abortion decision prior to Dobbs, (and still is in the states that have chosen not to restrict abortion). Having no say about whether ones spouse is allowed to enter the country or not is no less fair than having no say about whether ones child is allowed to be born or not.
Life isn’t fair.
The consequences of Professor Somin’s argument are astounding. Would the United States be required to admit an enemy soldier who married a US citizen in time of war? Foreign policy generally, and immigration policy in particular, works like war. Freedom of choice in general isn’t, and doesn’t have to be, fair. Imposed concepts of fairness are inconsistent with freedom of choice. The freedom of choice the United States has with respect to immigration is no less absolute than the freedom of choice a mother had with respect to abortion prior to Dobbs. Citizens who want to marry aliens simply have to take the possibility they may not get admitted into the country, or might get deported, into account.
At least in immigration policy only exclusion or deportation is involved and nobody is deliberately getting killed.
The extraterritorial alien isn't the only interested party here. His citizen spouse is, as well.
Life's nor fair, but our governments shouldn't be able to deprive an American from cohabiting with their spouse without having to show why before a neutral magistrate.
But no one's saying they can't live with their spouse. Just that they don't have the right to do so here. If I refuse to allow a married couple to stay at my house, I'm not saying they can't live with their spouse, I'm saying they can't do it at my house.
Her complaint is that the government won't say why. Isn't there something in the Constitution about confronting witnesses? She's complaining they've convicted him without any evidence. Yes, he's not a citizen. Are you saying that's all the justification needed?
In criminal trials, yes.
But immigration exclusion has nothing to do with crime. Like abortion, it’s a matter of choice. The father of a fetus has no constitutional right to challenge an abortion decision, let alone to confront witnesses to find out what the fetus did wrong.
Same here. Nothing to do with crime or witnesses or anything like that. It’s simply a matter of freedom of choice.
But the government did get around to saying why: He was a member of M-13. In fact, he figured it out himself, right on the spot. They then provided the judge persuasive evidence in camera that it was true.
Does look like a good prospect for the sort of case where they would be concealing intelligence sources. And if they really have reason to think he's an M-13 member?
Then denial is perfectly appropriate.
Is he saying the feds have no power to restrict married MI13 people from entry?
Somin will take any argument in favor of open borders.
As a matter of constitutional law I don't see a place to compromise. You have a right to bring your noncitizen family to America or you don't.
That's just not how rights work. Any right.
Absolutism begets authoritarianism.
There can be a range of rules regarding how strenuously the government has to justify and the procedural protections involved before they can limit or block such a right.
It also can be a question of how much discretion a specific government has. An issue of federalism.
You have a right to bring in El Salvador MS-13 gang members, or you don't.
I have no problem keeping sketchy people out, but a liberal immigration policy is a good thing. It might be a time for a review.
Here are the reasons, from best to worst.
1. America is the great shining city on the hill, domestic idiotic meming aside. Most of humanity live in dictatorship or nominal democracies lousy with corruption. They want to come here to live free from that.
Just the other day, I was talking with a fellow software developer where I work. Many are from India. We were talking college, and he mentioned how he had hoped to be able to get a slot in the US. Competition is very fierce, and he didn’t know if he would make it. “You have no idea how good you have it here.”
This is the shining city on the hill, shining to the world. Massive, real, profound differences, not the little domestic quibbles our power mongers want you to think vital and important.
Come here, and live free from dictatorship and corruption.
2. Because in an economically free society, the more, the better. The 1970s was replete with shortage scares. Yet they never amounted to anything except in the short term. As long as The People are free to address these problems, sans command and control, they will do so, and prices will continue to drop.
The last time this made an appearance was the “Peak Oil” concept. It was easy to see that as another 1970s-style shortage prediction that therefore would itself fail, and did.
The important point is government needs to keep their fumble-fingers, hell, corruption-fingers, out of the economy. This is why many in item 1 above want to come here. It’s also why we need to limit the regulatory state as the more burden, the more it approaches those broken states with terrible economies and lifespans.
3. Because we need lots of young workers to buttress Social Security. This is a utilitarian reason, and is driven by politicians kicking the can down the road, of both parties.
4. Because we want to win elections. This would be ok, if those wanting to win elections weren’t doing so to increase government burdens, thwarting the benefits of 2 and 1 above.
1. Yes, most of humanity live in dictatorships or nominal democracies lousy with corruption, and want to come here to live free from that.
But, why are those countries dictatorships, or lousy with corruption? It's not something in the soil or water, it's the people who live there.
And when people immigrate to a country, at the same time they're assimilating into the country, the country is assimilating them. I call it "you are what you eat", and it's not restricted to interesting cuisines and quaint folkways. It includes the cultural attitudes that made the countries they came from into what they are now.
We've seen that in the US, people fleeing the mess that is California, and one state near California after another being overwhelmed, and becoming little California lites. Why would we imagine it wouldn't happen between countries, too?
That's why if you've got a good thing in your country, you want to be selective about who you let in: Who you let in is your future, better make sure it's a good one.
2. "Because in an economically free society, the more, the better."
Two words: "Diminishing returns". And even if you could take in arbitrarily many people, (We can't.) you can't also take them in arbitrarily fast.
"3. Because we need lots of young workers to buttress Social Security."
Why not produce them domestically? We're going to have to eventually, the birth dearth is spreading to the third world, too.
"4. Because we want to win elections."
And adopting a policy your own population oppose in order to win elections kind of implies your own population not deciding the winner of elections anymore...
'It’s not something in the soil or water, it’s the people who live there.'
People are geneticially prone to prefer dictatorships. Sure. Why not.
Culturally, not genetically. Immigrants bring their cultures with them when they immigrate, and those cultural preferences tend to persist for generations. See: The Culture Transplant, by Garett Jones.
Culture’s mutable and complex. There’s always resistance to dictators and democratic movements and even people who stay out of trouble don’t love being under dictators and vast swathes of culture that have little to do with the autocratic nature of the government.
Culture is not an immutable trait by any stretch.
Have some faith in our own culture and the allure of freedom.
Immutable no, but study after study confirms remarkable multigenerational stamina.
One of the most interesting books I have ever read is Albion’s Seed by the historian David Hackett Fischer whose underlying thesis is that the distinctive character of America is the result of the tensions — still unresolved — between four different founding cultures. While I doubt he’d suggest culture is immutable, the book gives a strong argument that cultures are extremely persistent and powerful in affecting our national life. One of the important dichotomies he addresses are the different conceptions of freedom among the different founding cultures.
And adopting a policy your own population oppose in order to win elections kind of implies your own population not deciding the winner of elections anymore…
Yay you finally figured out why your Great Replacement instincts are stupid!
What “win elections” means is adopting policies that existing voters like and will reward. There are lots of voters who don’t think immigrants should be drowned in the Rio Grande, for example. It does not mean let in a bunch of illegals who can’t vote, on the theory that in 20 years they’ll have kids who can, but in the meantime all the actual voters vote against you. That would be ultra-retarded political suicide.
I expect to learn that immigrant-disdaining right-wingers like Mr. Bellmore and Kazinski are open -- probably enthusiastically -- to exceptions for mail order brides willing to comfort disaffected, spectrum-inhabiting, antisocial, conservative white males who otherwise would be relegated to an incel existence.
> And when people immigrate to a country, at the same time they’re
> assimilating into the country, the country is assimilating them. I
> call it “you are what you eat”, and it’s not restricted to interesting
> cuisines and quaint folkways. It includes the cultural attitudes that
> made the countries they came from into what they are now.
This is why we should have never allowed in Irish/Italians immigrant (+ others from shithole countries – Italy + Ireland were certainly such at the time. Jews invariably came from shithole countries, too).
Did I get it right, my good sir? (is it too much to ask where you hail from?)
Didn't we go over this several months ago in an open thread? There's no way to do that. Not without going Full Ceaușescu, anyway. And even that only worked temporarily.
If there's no way, then we're all just hilariously doomed in a few generations.
Lol if I said this about climate change, the scorn I would receive!
About half the fall in feritility in the US is because teenage girls aren't getting pregnant any more. At worst, this is a correction.
A few generations? What?
No, it is not "the more, the better". The USA was nicer with only 200 million people, and I would like to go back to that. He mentions people coming from India to the USA. Yes, India has way too many people.
Nicer for whom, you bigoted right-wing loser?
For Blacks?
For gays?
For Jews?
For women?
For agnostics and atheists?
For Asians?
For Muslims?
For people who prefer science to dogma, inclusiveness to bigotry and insularity, progress to backwardness, reason to superstition, education to ignorance?
Perhaps people who can't stand all of this damned progress in America should leave voluntarily rather than awaiting replacement? There must be a bigoted, backward, superstitious, half-educated community somewhere in the world that would provide a haven for disaffected, drawling bigots from America.
That would be about 1970. Is there a single way in which the U.S. was better in 1970 than today? (Okay, other than that Donald Trump was not on the political scene in 1970?)
No, the Supreme Court decision is not “effectively exempt[ing] immigration restrictions from constitutional constraints that apply”, Professor Somin.
There are no such constitutional constraints on Congress’ authority over immigration as you imagine there to be. As ReaderY says above, extraterritorial aliens do not have constitutional rights. But again, Professor Somin posts this in bad faith, because he does not believe ANY immigration restrictions are constitutional or legitimate, despite the long history or precedent that says otherwise. Of course he will find any such legal restrictions objectionable.
extraterritorial aliens do not have constitutional right
Ugh yes, they do, of course. You guys just make shit up you think sounds good and post it publicly. You look idiotic when you do that you know.
One obvious example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boumediene_v._Bush
You conveniently overlook that fact that the US has complete jurisdiction and control over Guantanamo.
Right. Also Kennedy is no longer on the Court.
Okay, maybe I should have said extraterritorial aliens NOT in US custody.
You conveniently overlook
I didn't overlook it, Maddog overlooked it (as he honorably admitted).
The point being, extraterritorial aliens have Constitutional rights commensurate with their degree of interaction with the US. In some contexts this concept is referred to as having a "substantial connection" to the US.
Bring in US custody is for sure a substantial connection. But so is having an American spouse and applying for a visa.
Not so. Boumediene only held that the definition of what is US territory is pragmatic, based on de facto permanent control, not a former one based on technical suzerainty. You’re reading dar more into it than was there.
I also agree even going that far is a far more liberal view than the Court would do today. An extremely expansive reading of Boumediene is just not going to happen.
I agree that aliens actually in US territory have some constitutional rights. But remaining in US territory simply isn’t one of them. Indeed, whenever the Constitution refers to rights of the People, in e.g. the First, Second, Fourth, and Tenth amendments, aliens (except possibly legal permanent residents) aren’t included.
Boumediene is just one example. Another is Toscanino.
Yes, it’s old and Second Circuit only, but it has never been overruled.
Judges expanding, by judicial fiat, constitutional protections to aliens abroad ("a different rule") is exactly what is at stake and problematic here.
The particularly troubling part of Boumediene was that Congress had explicitly legislated under its war powers (no executive power grab in vacuum of uncertainty), yet Kennedy decided he knew better. I could accept there existed a principled argument in favor of a habeas right in a district court if there had been no AUMF in effect. But there was, and these were combatants, which military authorities were competent, according to an act of Congress, to adjudicate.
Maybe, maybe not... either way, you're well into "should" territory now, rather than "do."
Do extraterritorial aliens have Constitutional rights? Yes. Should they? We probably disagree on that.
Yes. There exists lower court precedent. You won’t have a frivolous case.
But just as someone can still cite Justice Thomas’ Rahimi dissent for the proposition that only things illegal when the 2nd amendment was ratified can be prohibited, or for that matter Justice Douglas’ famous dissent that trees have standing, being able to cote an isolated opinion doesn’t make what uou’re saying the mainstream or good law.
The Court has been very reluctant to come out and say what it means in this regard.
In Hernandez v. Mesa, involving a Mexican teenager just across the border shot by a border agent, the Supreme Court completely ducked the issue of whether rights existed in the first place, saying oy that no Bivens remedy existed. It would reasonable to infer from that opinion that there was something to remedy, although the Court didn’t actually decide that question.
Only a little later, in Agency for International Development v. Alliance for Open Society, the Court majority declared it “settled law” that aliens outside US territory do not possess constitutional rights.
So it seems that the Court goes out and says this when things like corporations are involved. But when actual human aliens are involved, it will find a way for the alien claim to lose … Mesa, Trump v. Hawaii, this case, more - without actually going out and saying that aliens outside US territory have no constitutional rights.
No, I didn't actually leave it out. It was relevant to the topic under discussion.
And no, really really no, being in US custody is not at all equivalent to having a citizen spouse. That's the entire controversy here. She has no "special" constitutional rights as a spouse, versus any other family member in a similar situation, to boost his legal standing, unless granted to her by law.
Boumediene is also a big mess, as anyone who has had to litigate under its holdings will tell you, if they're being honest. The Philosopher King didn't really care about the consequences of his decision, requiring civil judicial principles for military circumstances. Which is why it was no surprise he gave us the ungrounded mishmash that is Obergefell.
*wasn't relevant
You misread the case. Look at the actual decision, not Wikipedia. The Supreme Court went through the various treaties with Cuba and accepted Boumdiene’s lawyer’s argument that Guantanamo Bay is actually US territory because the US has “full military and civil control” over it. And the reason it did this was because everyone (including Boumediene’s lawyer) understood that if it wasn’t US territory, Boumediene’s claim would be thrown out following Johnson v. Eisentrager (federal courts cannot entertain habeas corpus petitions from extraterritorial aliens because they have bo constitutional rights.) Boumediene discussed Eisentrager in detail and came up with a definition of what U.S. territory means.
As a comment notes, Jefferson and Madison were mainly concerned about federal vs. state power.
Madison's veto regarding the Second Bank of the U.S. referenced how something became a well-established fact. Federal control over immigration has reached that status.
I won't parse Barrett's originalist comments -- if they are not being applied consistently, what else is new? -- because that to me is the important bottom line.
If the dissent is correct, it is not because it has the better argument of what people thought in 1800.
Will this court ever get over its fetish for slipshod historical reasoning? Probably not, since the historical or ahistorical analogies they cherry pick allow them to slip in both intentionality and subjectivity into their textual or originalist interpretations of the constitution. Its all just a game.
Justice Roberts and his " the court is just an umpire" approach is bogus. Reminds me of that old umpire saying: " I calls 'em as I see 'em, and if I don't see 'em, I make it up."
"” I calls ’em as I see ’em, and if I don’t see ’em, I make it up.”"
It bees that way sometimes. it is in the nature of umpiring.
Trump would allow all hot white female spouses in no questions asked….ok, maybe one question—can I get your number? 😉
Is Prof Somin saying that a conservative Justice is 'abusing' originalism to get a result she wants? Well, at least she isn't the first. See Gonzalez v. Raich 545 US 1 (J. Scalia concurring); and last week's US v. Rahimi (where J. Thomas was the only one to faithfully apply his version of originalism).
It is maddening how advocates of originalism think that it somehow reduces or eliminates "bias" in decision making because one can simply open a historical reference and get an answer.
You can provide a justice the methodology, but you can't make them actually use it.
Rahimi was an easy call from an originalist perspective, but psychologically difficult for modern jurists who are steeped in a culture of hostility to guns.
The failure wasn't due to the methodology not working, it was due to only one of the justices being able to bring themselves to actually use it.
Some of the Framers were born in Great Britain. Great Britain was at war with the U.S. and would remain an enemy for 40 years. We were not yet a real Nation. There was a real concern as to foreign-born people, highly placed, trying to (or induced to trying to) take over. To go back to those years to construe what the Constitution means today is, to put it bluntly, stupid. You might as well form opinions as to the Universe by restricting yourself to the findings of Galileo's telescopes.
Tjere’s no convern about foreign governments or their agents trying to take over the government now?
Really?
May I suggest you consider reading the news from time to time?
It’s by no means certain whether we’re a real nation now.
No, there's no concern now. Not in the real world. Unless you think Trump will do the bidding of the Russians if he's elected again.
As for us being a real nation now, I have no doubt, even though a large minority of us think we're not. Most of my neighborhood interactions are with nonwhite people, many whose English is poor (though their children's is noticeably better). They are glad to be here, and the ones who are here illegally are punctilious about following the law (it would be stupid of them not to). They are part of our nation and it is a real nation.
Its a proven fact Biden serves the CCP.
It's a blue-anon trope that Trump serves Russia.
An Originalist Justice used cherry picked, misrepresented history. In other news water is wet.
In Christopher v. Harbury, the Supreme Court turned down an appeal from a widow whose Guatemalan husband was allegedly killed by CIA agents in Guatemala. She also asked for information about the death. In turning down her appeal, the Supreme Court basically said that national security trumps everything so that, when a death of an alien outside US territory is involved, the CIA can’t be forced to squack.
This case has some similarities, and perhaps the Mesa court could have used reasoning that more resembled Christopher’s.
I think in general, in a case like this, the tone of the opinion should be more sympathetic. Even though the widow (here the wife) loses in the face of federal power at its zenith, the court opinion should nonetheless express its sympathy and regret that in these matters the judiciary lacks any power to be involved, and cannot do anything better for the wife than advise her to take her case to the political branches, who are the only people who can help her.
This is a matter of tone, not of legal logic. But tone also matters in a public court.
I think immigration law is deliberately unfair and has been so for over a century. Consular non-reviewability probably could have decided this case. However, I do think Prof. Somin hits the nail on the head that the originalism in this case is sloppy. If Judges are supposed to be neutral arbiters that just follow the law, a strict following of precedent is arguably a more principled approach towards resolving this issue than this attempt at originalism.