The Volokh Conspiracy
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The Alito Flag Flap, Snyder v. Phelps, and Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire
The latest reporting from the New York Times intersections with Free Speech cases.
Jodi Kantor of the New York Times has a new report that dives deeper into the Alito flag flap. This work probably should have been done before her initial story ran. Now, we have a lot more context. From my vantage point, I'm not sure much changes. There was a spat between Mrs. Alito and her neighbors, in which she flew the flag upside down as a symbol of distress. I still see nothing to connect Mrs. Alito's decision with some sort of stop-the-steal imagery. But I'm sure "objective observers" will continue to see the "appearance of impropriety" they want to see.
What did interest me is how facets of this neighborly spat intersected with two landmark free speech cases. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction.
After January 6, the neighbors put up a sign across the street from the Alitos saying "You Are Complicit."
Then came Jan. 6. Rocked by the violence and threat to democracy, the couple soon put up new signs in their yard, saying "Trump Is a Fascist" and "You Are Complicit." Emily Baden said in interviews that the second sign was not directed at the Alitos, but at Republicans generally, especially those who weren't condemning the Capitol attack. . . . .
It's not clear whether Mrs. Alito saw those signs, but the day after the Capitol riot, as the couple parked in front of their home, she pulled up in her car, they said. She lingered there, glaring, for a long moment, recalled the couple, who texted their friends about the encounter.
Who is You? Justice Alito? Or Republicans in general?
This exact argument was at issue in Snyder v. Phelps. Recall that the Westboro Baptists held up a signs saying "God hates you" and "You're going to Hell." Who was the sign referring to? Matthew Snyder? Or society at large? Chief Justice Roberts, per the majority, did not think the sign referred exclusively to the slain Marine, but could have referred to society more broadly. Justice Alito, in his solo dissent, thought the sign clearly referred to Matthew Snyder. Here is the summary of the dispute from 100 Cases:
Justice Alito wrote a solo dissent. He countered that some of the signs were directed at Matthew Snyder. For example, "You're going to Hell" referred to Matthew. In addition to carrying signs at the funeral, Westboro also published a blog post — known as an "epic" — that addressed the Snyder family directly. During oral argument, Justice Alito stated, "The epic specifically referenced Matthew Snyder by name, [and] specifically referenced Matthew's parents by name." He then asked, "Do you think that the epic is relevant as an explanation of some of these arguably ambiguous signs that were displayed at the funeral? For example, 'You are going to hell,' 'God hates you.' Who is 'you'? If you read the epic, perhaps that sheds light on who 'you' is." . . . .
Chief Justice Roberts only considered the signs at the demonstration. He observed that "even if a few of the signs — such as 'You're Going to Hell' and 'God Hates You' — were viewed as containing messages related to Matthew Snyder or the Snyders specifically, that would not change the fact that the overall thrust and dominant theme of Westboro's demonstration spoke to broader public issues." By limiting the facts in this way, Chief Justice Roberts made the case easier to decide than perhaps it was.
I suspect the Alitos thought the "complicit" sign was directed them--in particular at Justice Alito. Trump is a fascist and Justice Alito is complicit. It is rare that we have a Justice's opinion on how to interpret pronouns on protest signs, but we have Snyder v. Phelps.
There is more. It turns out that the neighbor-at-issue never actually saw the upside-down flag!
On Jan. 17, the upside-down flag hung at the Alito household, according to a photograph obtained by The Times. Neighbors say it was up for a few days. If the flag was intended as a message for the Badens, whose home does not have a direct view of the Alito residence, they missed it, they said.
One of the greatest ironies of Snyder v. Phelps is that the family of Matthew Snyder never actually saw the protest signs, which were outside the cemetery. The claim for intentional infliction of emotional distress was premised solely on media reporters of the protest. Here too, Mrs. Alito flew the flag as a symbol of distress, but it never reached its intended recipient.
As is often the case with free expression and symbolism, messages are often missed and misinterpreted--another reason why we should all be cautious and not view the flags in the worst possible light.
There is one more SCOTUS intersection, this time to Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. In this case, Chaplinsky called a police officer a "damned fascist." The Supreme Court held that these words were "fighting words," and were not protected by the First Amendment. As all know, the fighting words doctrine is basically a dead letter. It plays almost no role in modern First Amendment law. I sometimes joke with my students that in today's coarsened society, no words would justify punching someone in the face. Then again, Justice Alito favorably cited Chaplinksy in Snyder:
This Court has recognized that words may "by their very utterance inflict injury" and that the First Amendment does not shield utterances that form "no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality." Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U. S. 568, 572 (1942); see also Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U. S. 296, 310 (1940) ("[P]ersonal abuse is not in any proper sense communication of information or opinion safeguarded by the Constitution"). When grave injury is intentionally inflicted by means of an attack like the one at issue here, the First Amendment should not interfere with recovery.
Back to the cul-de-sac. According to the neighbors, Mrs. Alito used similar words as Mr. Chaplinsky:
The conflict then seemed to quiet down. But on Feb. 15, the couple were pulling in trash bins when the Alitos, who seemed to be on a stroll, appeared. Mrs. Alito addressed the pair by name, used an expletive and called them "fascists," the couple told The Times and said in texts at the time. Justice Alito remained silent, they added. The Alitos began to walk away.
In response, the neighbor called Mrs. Alito a word that begins with c- and rhymes with punt.
That was when Emily Baden snapped, she said. She does not remember her precise words, but recalls something like this: How dare you behave this way. You've been harassing us, over signs. You represent the highest court in the land. Shame on you.
Ms. Baden said that she — not her partner, as Justice Alito recalled — used the lewd expression. "I will fully cop to that," she said. A neighbor standing in the street, who asked not to be identified because of the friction on the block, said he heard her say the word too.
Is calling someone an expletive-fascist a fighting word? Does it justify a c-bomb in response? Is calling someone a c-word a fighting word? I can't fathom what was going through Justice Alito's mind when he witnessed all of this unfolding. Pick at random any other graduate from Steinert High School in Trenton, Class of 1968, and call their wife the c-word. See what would happen. Judicial restraint would not be the order of the day. (By chance, the District Court judge I clerked for graduated from Steinert a few years before Justice Alito.)
Anyway, I think this story will have a life so long as it allows people to call for Justice Alito's recusal. I think what we have here is what we had from the outset: an ugly neighborly spat that did not signal the Justice's sympathy with "stop the steal."
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Guess Josh never heard of the Streisand effect.
Where Barabara Streisand sued the New York Times for publishing pictures of her house?
Yes, after a fashion.
It wasn't the NYT.
Woosh.
It’s spelled whoosh. -_-
"Guess Josh never heard of the Streisand effect."
NYT has millions of subscribers, this blog has some thousands [at best] viewers. I don't think this post will amplify much.
Granted, but it is certainly keeping it alive here.
But it's quality not quantity. Reason seems like the sort of place with sufficient overlap with other right-wing blogs and things like 8-chan that the sorts of people who pick up on these articles might be more likely to act upon them.
Does Virginia purport to criminalize fighting words? No? Then who gives an f-word?
Blackman and whoever else can say what they want regarding the meaning of the flag and interpret the intended message in the most positive, and unlikely, light possible. But what they can’t credibly say is that the Alitos acted with anything like the dignity expected of people of their privilege and his station in the United States government.
When did childishness and lack of couth become de rigueur on the right?
Even in the best possible light, the Alitos should be ashamed of their conduct. (Yes, his too, even if his wife willingly allows him to throw her under the bus. Perhaps especially then.)
(And continuing to try to get people to swallow that there was no political message to the upside down flag……only the willing see that as the most likely explanation given the circumstances.)
“But what they can’t credibly say is that the Alitos acted with anything like the dignity expected of people of their privilege and his station in the United States government.”
Meh. Look at all the people who voted for the Clintons, even after they had sex with an intern in the oval office and lied about it under oath.
You can rationalize any bad behavior if you truly commit to always pointing to the other side.
Sometimes 30 years back if that's what it takes.
Alito could have killed an eaten an endangered live wild American Flag, live on camera, and some would only want to talk about but Clinton's Travel Office.
"You can rationalize any bad behavior if you truly commit to always pointing to the other side. Sometimes 30 years back if that’s what it takes."
Lol. Yeah, that's totally what I'm doing with my comment.
Clinton has nothing to do with the OP, but here you are. Getting the story wrong just 'cause why not.
Sure.
And in any event, if I wanted to call out childishness and lack of couth on the left, I only need to go back to Biden calling a journalist a "stupid son of a bitch" from the podium. And probably not that far.
You're still doing it.
Do you even realize you're still doing it, or is it like beyond your conscious control?
Sigh. You have absolutely no reading comprehension.
Sure, that's what happening here. Certainly it's not me calling you out for compulsive deflection and you not having much to answer with but additional deflections and insults.
And Bill should be ashamed that he willingly allowed Hillary to throw him under the bus for what they did!
Just like the Left repeatedly does to justify the October 7 terrorist attacks that resulted in the murder of over 1000 Israeli civilians.
Thanks for conceding.
Getting to be a pretty small group, the left., if that’s your definition.
Hopefully small. Definitely loud, obnoxious, and dangerous when they abusive the powers of their offices. As we see in NY.
As usual, you failed to read what we're talking about here.
Need a C word for you. How about contemptible? Childish? I think maybe clown works best.
Your knowledge of either history or pronouns (or both) is weak.
I see that you continue to miss the point, or at least pretend you do, even when someone hits you over the head with it.
There is massive amount of blaming Justice Alito for what his wife did, apparently with no input from him.
I mean the right have just spent the last few months attacking a judge's daughter for nothing because Trump picked on her.
And Nige said, "I wanna be just like them!"
And twelve keeps trying to make dfferent things the same, because the shit he's defending is vile.
Haha yeah, nothing as in "$50M in DNC ad cash to the judges daughter overseeing the DNC's political opponents trial"...
It's is a big of a nothing burger as that $10M a year between the CCP and Joe Biden. Since it goes through his son and 8 LLC's, it's perfectly legal and totally not corrupt. It's going through the son and the LLC's is what MAKES IT LEGAL.
Just like given millions in cash to the daughter of a judge.
I mean, if you just make shit up, it's fine.
We've gone from butheremails to butbill.
“When did childishness and lack of couth become de rigueur on the right?”
The seeds were first planted by Saint Ronaldus Magnus, the now deposed king of conservatism. And the practice was instituted by Newt Gingrich around 1994. But it didn’t enter the mainstream until 2016.
I wonder, truly, whether Trump has supplanted Reagan in the Pantheon. It would be interesting to know
I have no idea how that’s even in question.
American students will be taught for many decades that Trump and Reagan were both assholes, in differing ways.
When was maturity and couth ever in fashion for any politician? You can keep trying to blame the right but politicians on both sides do the same and always have. This faux outrage is tiresome.
Cynicism as political cover is ever so tiresome. The concept of a Justice who thinks 2020 was stolen, and whose household are hot-tempered supercilious rageaholics is news.
Maybe the facts aren't enough to add up for you; that's legit, if increasingly hard to support.
But don’t normalize bad behavior so you can decide not to care.
The evidence that any Justice "thinks 2020 was stolen" is entirely in your (and the NYT's) head.
The fact that pretty much every household (including those of famous people including judges) has at least one "hot-tempered supercilious rageaholic" is not news. It's also no evidence whatsoever about the judgement or demeanor of the other folks in the household.
I don't need to "normalize bad behavior" because it's already normalized. What you're describing is an inherent part of human nature. That's not to say it's laudable but it's completely non-newsworthy.
The evidence that any Justice “thinks 2020 was stolen” is entirely in your (and the NYT’s) head.
There's evidence, just not proof. The flags are at the very least suggestive - circumstantial if you will. But yeah nothing is proven. That's why I said 'the concept of' and didn't just go straight in with 'a justice who.'
I really do think a Justice who flies off the handle, and whose wife is worse, is news. No, it's not outside the realm of human behavior but that's never been the standard for what's news!
I don’t need to “normalize bad behavior” because it’s already normalized.
This is how you normalize bad behavior.
Do you suggest that Justice Alito require that Mrs. Alito put a ball gag in her mouth before stepping out of their home?
If you have a partner, do you control what they think or say? If so, at least consider that not all couples may be as into one taking a submissive role as one of you in your partnership may have accepted.
Can you imagine either Mary Matalin or James Carville, who remain married after 23 years and having raised two kids together, stopping the other from speaking their mind? Not all couples agree on politics and one is not responsible for the political views of their partner.
At least, unlike Justice Ginsburg making comments about Trump, Justice Alito himself didn't state an opinion on the matter. Ginsburg didn't recuse herself from the travel ban cases - even when, in some, the matter of "intent" on Trump's part mattered (i.e., was his intent to, ineffectively, keep his campaign promises to exclude "Muslims" or was his intent to address a national security concern with the very same countries that President Obama had excluded from his expedited visa program due to the unreliable records those countries maintained). Clearly Justice Ginsburg's personal statements made with calculated forethought in a formal interview with a major news organization (so not an "open mike" event or private communications that got leaked) are far, far, far more reason for recusal than an ambiguous symbol that the spouse of a Justice, without the Justices knowledge or consent, hoists by reversing the eyelets on a flag. Moral outrage in the Alito case from anyone who was politically aware when Justice Ginsburg made her irresponsible statements and who didn't express even more moral outrage at that time is hard to take seriously in the Alito case.
No, Judge Alito should not ball-gag his wife.
But every neighbor on that street should display at least one sign expressing displeasure concerning the antisocial, obsolete asshole(s) residing on that street. No free swings, clingers.
From Josh's previous Alito apology post:
"There is no story here. There never was a story here. How much time have we all wasted on this non-story."
Can't stop won't stop.
Orin Kerr has come up with a resolution:
"There is only one solution: Chief Justice Roberts must demand that Justice Alito divorce his wife. And if the Chief Justice cannot persuade Justice Alito to take that simple step, Chief Justice Roberts must resign."
He goes on:
"Why do we even allow Justices to be married? If there were serious ethics rules governing the Justices, these sorts of nefarious influences would be prohibited."
And there isn't a /sarc tag.
https://x.com/OrinKerr/status/1795652191962952074?t=QoUPaxVIUhVLkmi3rR1M9g&s=19
Anything, literally anything, besides whatever the fuck it is Alito actually thinks or believes, especially with regard to whether he acccepts Trump's loss.
One thing that is being supported from neighbors and reporters is that if you talk to the Alitos without proper deference, they will lose their shit.
I thought that was the whole point, we aren’t supposed to know what the judges think about the issues?
Now you are demanding to know.
Make up your mind.
And how are I or Kerr supposed to know what Alito thinks about what happened?
Me personally, I think Trump lost, and probably Alito thinks so too, but I don’t know anymore than you do what he thinks about it.
In what world are their opinions irrelevant? Everybody believes they rule based on their political leanings, and that legal objectivity is a polite fiction. Why can't people want to know why the fuck an unelected unaccountable lifetime appointee with immense power is flying those weird flags?
Exhibiting your usual clarity about understanding. Just what the issues are.
The whole.point is judges are not supposed to comment about what they think about issues that may come before the court.
Which of course illustrates what a ridiculous controversy this is. Technically if he said he didn't believe there was any merit to claims the election was stolen he would have to recuse if a case came up before the court. Or if he said he thought it was stolen he'd also have to recuse.
The correct thing for him to do is not comment, other than say quite properly, any views that possibly might have been expressed were his wife's, which its already been established is quite opinionated, as is her right.
Shouldn't have flown those flags, I guess.
"Why can’t people want to know why the fuck an unelected unaccountable lifetime appointee with immense power is flying those weird flags?'
It's one thing to want to know. It's another to pretend to know based on what's basically entrail-reading.
Or in noticing the huge clanging hints that are being dropped.
...
No, not everyone is cynical enough to believe that – any more than everyone is cynical enough to believe that every criminal defense lawyer who defends a criminal who committed heinous acts supports the acts the defendant engaged in.
Yes, the two “wings” of the courts have quite different judicial philosophies as to what the role of each branch of government is and what the Constitution means (for example, does the Constitution mean what those authoring and ratifying it meant or does it mean what nine appointed folks in black robes think it should mean over 200 years later).
These judicial philosophies might well, and unsurprisingly, result in similar political preferences among adherents of each philosophy but it does not mean that politics is driving their decisions. To assume that the tail wags the dog is not the most logical conclusion.
Many people, myself included, who have served on a jury with a despicable violent defendant and voted “Not Guilty” because they followed the law, including the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard, rather than following their emotions or a desire for the law to be more strict have experienced the decoupling of politics and personal opinions from the law.
Yes. Orin Kerr, responsible Volokh Conspirator, at times Columbo role-playing specialist ("I'm confused about your theory ...").
Columbo? You should change your name to JoeFromtheAtomicAge
You understand who the second sentence of the three quoted is mocking, right?
Something for you to consider, Josh. Whether inadvertently or intentionally, you have provided enough information for anyone inclined to do so to locate the Alito home. Think about what you have done, then perhaps send a note of apology to the Justice and his family (and their neighbors).
I think that ship has sailed, weren't all the justices homes besieged during the Dobbs panic?
I'm a bit disappointed that I couldn't find it (despite seeing the house number in various news photos, along with the description of the neighborhood and the fact that it is a cul-de-sac). My Streetviewing skills are apparently slipping...
But judging by the fact that there have been news photos showing crowds of people in front of the Alito's house, from both right and left, it's clear that anyone who really wants to know where it is can find it. Josh's conscience is clear on this: That cat's out of the bag and running down the street.
So the neighbor’s story is inconsistent with what Alito said originally. No big surprise there. That Mrs Alito appears to be a troll (complete with spitting!) is also less than shocking.
What I don’t get is why she’s so upset. Maybe if Democrats enjoyed the current and ever increasing structural advantages that Republicans do I could see being miffed— but the Alitos are getting what they want! Except, apparently, obsequious ass-kissing from every single person in the neighborhood?
What was it that Tywin said? The lion does not concern itself with the opinions of sheep. Martha-Ann should take notes.
Even accepting the Alitos dubious version of events— Mrs. Alito sounds like a thin-skinned Karen. Imagine being so insecure that even as a wife of a Supreme Court Justice she feels the need to engage in a tit for tat sign and flag slap-fight with a couple of 30-something neighbors. Same goes for the whiny WSJ op-Eds.
I mean, seriously. Her husband has a lifetime job as literally one of the most powerful dozen people in government. Guaranteed lifetime appointment. Complete impunity. Retirement. Seats on private planes to go fishing in Alaska. Their kids are set. Heck, even their grandkids are set. Social capital. Federalist Society types lining up to kiss your feet. Your husband even can, provided he can convince 4 fellow travelers to sign on, literally rewrite the laws of this county to suit his personal whims!
Delving into armchair psychology for a moment (so take this with a grain of salt) I have a theory about what is going on here.
I think in their deepest, most self reflective moments, the Alitos realize that this can’t last. In 15 years, 30% of the people in this country will be represented by 70% of Senators. And vice versa. The current makeup of the Court only reflects this. Can anyone conceive of a GOP senate confirming a Democratic President’s Supreme Court nominee… ever again? One need only look at what state GOP parties are doing— they see the writing on the wall. Texas GOP emphasizing land over actual voters. Washington GOP passing anti-democracy resolutions.
There’s something deeply amiss with someone who holds so much power in our society and yet further demands that everyone love him or her for the way they choose to exercise it.
I think there also a gradual, sinking, realization that history is not going to judge Sam kindly, no matter their victories in the current day.
As the culture war advances, conservatives tend to become more doomed, dispirited, disaffected, delusional, and desperate. This explains much, from the Alitos to the Volokh Conspiracy.
"gradual, sinking, realization that history is not going to judge Sam kindly"
History is a fickle b*tch. She doesn't even remember many people.
How many justices are even discussed much in history? Marshall, Taney [only because of that one case], Warren. Thurgood Marshall sure, but because he was the first black, once its a normal thing, he's fading into trivia at best. Who else?
History treats everyone badly, most often by just forgetting.
Learned nothing and forgotten nothing
" In 15 years, 30% of the people in this country will be represented by 70% of Senators."
Senators don't represent people. They represent States.
They are literally picked by the anthropomorphic entity that is 'a State.'
Big fan of the Washington GOP, sounds like.
How many senators does a state with zero people get?
My guess is Mrs Alito is OK with being the scape goat because she likes fancy vacations. I wonder, Prof Blackman, have all these bootlicking posts yet earned you an invite to one of those exclusive conferences with Leonard Leo and Clarence Thomas?
Jodi Cantor claims that the flags mean that the election was stolen, and that displaying them violates a bedrock rule of judicial ethics.
Both of these are highly questionable. Even assuming that it shows that Alito believed that the election was stolen, what could be unethical about saying so? Most of the country believes the election was stolen, depending on how you ask the question. If he were asked to rule on whether the election was stolen, then perhaps someone could complain that he had already made up his mind, but no such case will be going before his court. There are no ethical issues here.
If Alito or his wife Karen is that much a disaffected, delusional, partisan dumbass, better Americans deserve to know.
Jodi Cantor seems to be saying that opposite -- that Americans should not know the political leanings of the justices.
One thing most of the country seems to think is that the Justices will rule on cases according to their politics.
"Justices will rule on cases according to their politics."
Thomas just upheld the funding for the consumer bureau. His politics would say the oposite,
Its the libs that will rule on cases according to their politics.
I didn't say how true it was, I just said it was believed to be the case. Another aspect of that belief is: no, it's the other guy that does it and that justifies us whenever we do ot.
Yes, the 3 liberals nearly always vote as a bloc.
Consistency!
You got stats for that, or just gonna ipse dixit?
'what could be unethical about saying so?'
It would move the discussion on from fucking flags, at least.
'Most of the country believes the election was stolen,'
They'll obviously believe anything, including that most of the country agrees with them.
'There are no ethical issues here.'
Trump voters having thoughts about ethics.
I'm not going to say this is the silliest controversy that's ever graced the pages of the NY Times but its got to be up there.
In a week that Sotomayor says she cries in her chambers because she has such an personal emotional stake in some case, some people think Alito needs to recuse himself from some unnamed and unknown cases because there is the possibility that he may have a unstated but possibly discernable opinion on a topic that every other American has an opinion on.
Both Sotomayor and Alito are entitled to their opinions, and neither need to worry about recusing from any case where they haven't actually expressed an plain unambiguous opinion that a reasonable person would think shows bias.
But how many people calling for Alito to start recusing himself from (blank), think Sotomayor should start recusing herself from voting rights cases?
Having emotions is certainly as normal as having opinions, and having opinions on legal matters is literally their job, therefore those opinions will always be under scrutiny. If Alito thinks Trump won the election but had it stolen from him, it means he does not accpet the legitimacy of the Biden administration. What does a judge think of cases relating to an adminitration which has no legitimacy?
We had dozens of judges from 2017-2020 that didn't seem to think we had a legitimate president, but we got through it.
But if that's what you think, Alito had had 3 years of cases and cert positions in the Biden administration where he could have signalled he thought the Biden administration was illegitimate, surely there must be a cite floating around where he let the mask slip. Maybe a blistering dissent on a cert petition claiming voter fraud swung the election.
They must be out there somewhere, right?
'We had dozens of judges from 2017-2020 that didn’t seem to think we had a legitimate president, but we got through it.'
No we didn't. We didn't have a single one.
'They must be out there somewhere, right?'
How does he tend to argue and rule in cases related to the Biden admin?
"If Alito thinks Trump won the election but had it stolen from him, it means he does not accpet the legitimacy of the Biden administration."
Nige, that does not necessarily follow logically. He could well believe the election was stolen, but now, accept that Biden is indeed the president, having been sworn in, etc., as I do.
I’m glad to hear that your utterly bizarre and unfounded belief hasn’t overwhelmend your fealty to law and order, except inasmuch as you support Trump. I don’t suppse this paradoxical combination has made your attitude to Biden one of balance and equanimity.
I don't think it's bizarre or unfounded. 1/3 of adults in a recent poll believe Biden's presidency is illegitimate. That's a lot of people. And there is, indeed, evidence of election interference, including the media's coverup and censorship of the contents of Hunter's laptop, and so on.
But, what is one to do? That ship has sailed.
My attitude towards Biden? In what way? I don't like him, I believe he's a crook, and feckless as a president. But, whatever. That's a matter for the next election.
A lot of people being deluded is good to know. It does not confer legitimacy upon their delusion.
That cuts both ways, you know. Are you referring to those who believe it's illegitimate, or those who don't? 🙂
No. It doesn't cut both ways. Reality is not a postmodernist subjective morass.
That's a fallacious argument. You're saying that you're right because you're right.
It reminds me of years ago, when NPR responded to assertions that they had a left bias by saying that reality has a left bias, so they are not biased.
I'm saying I'm right because facts matter.
If you want to argue the facts, argue the facts.
If you just want to argue partisan epistemology, then have a ball; I won't be joining you.
'You’re saying that you’re right because you’re right.'
You really don't understand the difference between having no evidence for something and having evidence for something? You might just be a Trump voter!
I’m sorry, you base this on a poll of opinions rather than the complete lack of evidence? That would explain a lot.
Plus there was no media cover-up of the laptop. There just wasn’t anything on it that *would* have affected the election that way you wanted.
You don’t believe he’s an anti-democratic usurper and tyrant, though you do believe all the other 'election was stolen' level evidence of his wrong-doing and crookedness? Inconsistent, but big of you.
"Feckless" Biden masterminded a stolen election. Ha.
Unnamed cases? 1/6 cases are specifically cited, including the Trump immunity case now being written.
Justices [and judges overall] repeatedly have noted how they were distressed by the results of certain cases. The Alito story has a whole lot more than that. Even if you think it is a “silly” story.
As to Alito “signaling” his MAGA views, people have flagged that regularly.
About 1/3 of the USA has MAGA views, so it would be fair if 3 out of 9 justices had MAGA views.
No they haven't, at least not honestly, because there is nothing to flag. Alito has spent decades on the bench, he is conservative not MAGA.
This is typical of what how the Supreme Court has handled MAGA cases:
"U.S. Supreme Court rejects final outstanding election appeal from Trump
Top court rejected, without comment, a Trump appeal of an earlier ruling in Wisconsin case"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ussc-trump-election-1.5940794
When you slow-walk a presidential immunity case in order to give the MAGA presidential candidate a leg up, you're MAGA.
MAGAts are the new conservative establishment.
They didn't slow walk it they fast tracked it.
Usually arguments are scheduled 3 to 9 months after a case is accepted, and a decision comes down 3-6 months after that.
They did move faster on the Colorado ballot access case because there were statutory deadlines and actual primary dates.
There isn't any of those external deadlines in the immunity case and they still scheduled arguments promptly, and are working on the decision now, its barely been a month since oral arguments.
That's the rocket docket, not the usual slow train.
Aren't there 2 Alito flag flaps? First, there's the allegation that he flew an upside-down American flag, which appears to be the one that Josh is talking about. On that one, I tend to agree that he should be given the benefit of the doubt, although it seems like an remarkably silly thing for his wife to do just because she's mad at the neighbor, given that her husband is a Supreme Court judge and she has to know there's a risk that people may construe the flying of the flag as expressing a different meaning. The second flag flap is the allegation that he flew an "Appeal to Heaven" Pine Tree flag. I found that one more concerning, although maybe I just don't know enough about the possible symbolic meanings of that flag. It sounds like he's expressing a view on whether the election was stolen, which might warrant recusal in certain cases. Josh, do you have any thoughts on that question? Does anyone else?
It can't have been because she was mad at a neighbour. That happened months after the flag was flown.
"Then came Jan. 6. Rocked by the violence and threat to democracy, the couple soon put up new signs in their yard, saying "Trump Is a Fascist" and "You Are Complicit.""
"On Jan. 17, the upside-down flag hung at the Alito household, according to a photograph obtained by The Times. Neighbors say it was up for a few days."
I don't know what timeline you are referring to.
Didn’t they claim there was an altercation which prompted the flag? And subsequent evidence shows the altercation occurred months later?
And what other conclusion can be drawn other than thay supported Trump’s attempt to overturn the election AND the Jan 6th mob?
You are correct, Nige. Evidence (telephone records, witness accounts, photographic evidence) indicates the Alito version (sequence, motivation) is mistaken and likely a lie. It is understandable that hayseeds who do not read legitimate newspapers might not be properly informed.
There are no allegations, just facts. The Alito’s flew an upside down US flag, a known symbol of the insurrection, two weeks after the insurrection and four weeks before a neighborhood spat they blamed their flag hanging on had happened. And they flew the other flag, a known symbol of Christian nationalism, at another home for no explained reason.
"a known symbol"
It sounds like you've been getting your information from Wikipedia edits made in the past few weeks.
No
[This is a Google News search for '"appeal to heaven" flag' going from 2014 to March of 2024. Not all the 53,800 entries are about Christian nationalism, but plenty on the first page are - the association is not a recently made up thing.]
I see a bunch of hysterical articles from the usual suspects who also published similar tripe about the "ok" hand gesture. Plus, the vast majority of the them are dated past Jan 6, 2021. Neither the media nor a handful of extremists get to dictate what symbols mean.
One is from 2015 and says a local county attorney suggested the flag not be flown by a government entity because it expresses religious sentiment generally, though the one activist org tries to tie it to some group and movement I've never heard of.
Regardless, calling the upside down US flag a known symbol of Jan 6 is a stretch.
No new goalposts.
Good lord you just created like 3 new ones in this post alone.
It's clear you've decided what you want to believe.
Perhaps you should try reading slower if you can't keep up. I'll make it really simple for you:
1. You don't get to say that a flag that existed since the founding only means something that the media has decided it means in the past three years, especially when the media pushes nonsense like "the ok gesture now means white supremacy."
2. Suggesting that an upside-down flag is a "known symbol" of Jan 6 is absurd.
If you want to dunk on me for suggesting it was "three weeks" and not three years in the context of a founding-era flag, sure, you got me.
OK. I was noting that you said 3 weeks and then changed it to post Jan 06.
Fair enough! New goalposts become just conversational drift if you acknowledge you're changing them and why.
So onto this comment's content. I don't think you can say this is a media creation, when they're reporting on what groups use the flag. It's not exclusively Christian nationalists, but it's a lot of that. And has been for a long time.
What the flag is being used for *now* is what matters, not what it was used back in the day.
The upside down flag is notable due to the timing - well known stop the steal Internet wankarenas were pushing to fly the flag upside down. It may well be coincidence this is when the wife-neighbor fight went down, and how it went down. But add in the second flag (which is also not itself determinative) and things become suggestive, if not dispositive.
You are a bigoted, antisocial loser, Jacob Grimes. Likely a superstitious, worthless, right-wing culture war casualty.
Keep flailing, dumbass. It's what you hayseeds do best.
'Neither the media nor a handful of extremists get to dictate what symbols mean.'
People who use something as a group symbol generally get to say what the symbol means to their group, and media sometimes reports on that.
You mean like BLM? San Francisco? Revolutionary war soldiers?
If I thought Alito was affiliated with any of that, I might suspect other stuff than I do.
"As this history of the Pavilion of American Flags, posted by KQED in 2017, explains, “The flagpoles were installed during a period of great nationalism, especially in San Francisco,” and the flags were first raised in 1964. The American flag as we know it had just been redesigned following the statehoods of Alaska and Hawaii in 1959, and a local service club, called the Sertoma Club, came up with the idea of a collection of flags — which included obscure ones from the country’s history, including the now ubiquitous “Don’t Tread on Me” snake flag, known as the Gadsen Flag, which also dates to 1775."
SFist
Symbols get coopted all the time. The swastika was once a positive symbol for prosperity. The contemporary meanings for the Gadsden and Appeal to Heaven flags are well known. Even the “OK” symbol has taken on a non-ironic “okay to be white” meaning after the initial prank was taken seriously by bigots too dumb to understand the joke.
And yet the Wiki entry photograph is from a BLM protest.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Black_Lives_Matter_protest_signs.jpg
People assign it different meanings, some just like the flag, it's provenance, and the rather ambiguous wording on the flag, which without looking up the quote could mean anything.
And it’s hardly radical to quote Locke anyway who opposed the divine right of kings and the doctrine of non-resistance which was very prevalent during the reign of Charles 2, son of the decapitated Charles 1.
I'm confused about the timeline you cite. It's stated above that the neighbors "...soon (after Jan. 6th) put up new signs in their yard, saying "Trump Is a Fascist" and "You Are Complicit," and (o)n Jan. 17, the upside-down flag hung at the Alito household, according to a photograph obtained by The Times. Neighbors say it was up for a few days."
Did I miss something here?
Yes.
Read the Times and the Post or continue to spout ignorance, clinger.
"other flag, a known symbol of Christian nationalism"
It flew in front of San Francisco City Hall for years until last weekend.
Well known Christian nationalists, SF city government.
They are practicing the Red Queen school of meaning: it means exactly what they intend it to mean when they want it to mean it.
And it doesn't matter what you intend it to mean, they tell you what you meant.
Let's take the most negative construction and see where it leads. Let's say that Sam Alito did, indeed, fly the US flag upside down to protest the election. And, let's say he flew the "Appeal to Heaven" flag at his vacation place to affirm his Christianity.
So what? Aren't justices entitled to opinions? And even if a case came before them that involves either of these topics, can't we just assume that they can put their personal opinions and views aside, and behave ethically about the case?
I think a recusal is an extreme step, and is only required when the justice has a personal stake in the outcome of the case; i.e., not a "stake" according to their political or other views.
‘So what? Aren’t justices entitled to opinions?’
But your problem is that other people are having opinions about those opinions, which is utterly out of bounds and unfair!
I honestly don't follow that.
I'm not surprised.
"I think a recusal is an extreme step, and is only required when the justice has a personal stake in the outcome of the case"
You think incorrectly, as that is not the standard for recusal. One would assume by now that you'd know this, and simultaneously wonder how it's remotely possible that you evidently don't.
Why don't you just say what the standard is?
"Currently, the rules call for the justices to recuse when they have financial, professional, or personal conflicts. But the code says the recusal rules may need to give way to the “rule of necessity,” also known as the duty to sit."
So, an opinion doesn't necessarily fall into "financial, professional, or personal conflicts."
What say you?
If you're going to quote a source, include the fucking source. Since we actually have the code itself, an honest person would quote the code instead of a Bloomberg reporter. Unsurprisingly, you chose the latter.
Judges are required to recuse themselves from any case in which their impartiality might reasonably be questioned.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/455
The recusal standard has only been mentioned on this blog dozens of times in the last handful of years. Why are you here if you aren't paying attention enough to learn anything?
First:
"Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. " Your response is not civil.
Second: that you respond with expletives and personal attacks indicates your case is weak, and you feel the need to buttress it with bullying.
Third: what point of the law you cite applies to Alito? What "proceeding?" Is there a case before the court now to which this applies, or is one anticipated? What is it?
First, Jason is clearly an angry person, but he's consistently angry (don't take it personally).
Second, the recusal obligation applies to "any proceeding" before the Court. Recusing without a proceeding wouldn't make any sense, so yes, the obligation to recuse would not arise until a proceeding in which Alito's impartiality might reasonably be questioned has arisen. We must wait and see...
1) I don’t care what you consider to be civil or not. Don’t want to get called out for dishonesty? Don’t be dishonest. Simple!
2) My case is the actual US Code which applies to all justices, judges, and magistrates. Cry more!
3) Your goalposts shift the moment you get owned, and frequently even before then!
4) Be a man and admit that your belief of when recusal is “only required” was wrong. Surprise us all.
The comments policy doesn't apply to Jason, he gets frustrated easily and has poor impulse control.
Plus he's not good and coming up with convincing arguments so he has to make do with with profanity and insults.
But he's harmless.
Comments policy?
At a blog that habitually publishes vile racial slurs, unleashes a daily stream of right-wing bigotry, and regularly hosts calls for liberals and libertarians to be shot in the face, placed face-down in landfills, gassed, lined up and shot, pushed through woodchippers, raped, sent to Zyklon showers, exterminated, dropped from helicopters, etc etc etc?
Carry on, bigoted and bitter clingers.
Citing the US Code related to judicial recusal wasn't good enough for you eh?
Odd how Pubes managed to comment on every aspect of my post except the part that obliterated his argument. (Unless you count his pretending to not know what a 'justice' is.) Coincidentally I'm sure, you didn't manage to address it either.
Funny how you people run away the moment facts hit you in the face.
You want civility? Stop lying.
NY Times Jodi Cantor is arguing that a scotus justice should never reveal his political opinions.
I guess Volokh Conspiracy is not interested in the reporting that court "employees" are prohibited from expressing their political views. The implications of that seems like something a sometimes libertarian blog would wish to flesh out.
Where did you get the idea this is a sometimes libertarian blog? Mr. Volokh was just shitting you on that one.
'It's fine for a Justice to have an unfounded belief that our current government is legitimate - everyone's entitled to their political opinion!' is very much missing the issue here.
One branch of government including people who think one or both of the other branches are not legitimate is not just politics as usual.
I'm not saying that's where Alito is, I'm saying the commenters who say that wouldn't matter are absolutely wrong.
"One branch of government including people who think one or both of the other branches are not legitimate is not just politics as usual."
Democrats - senators, representatives, and others - have explicitly called SCOTUS illegitimate, many times over. Alito has never voiced that, people are inferring that based on the flag flap.
Just one example, of many; referring to the supposedly "stolen seats," "...Markey said, it is time to “fix this broken and illegitimate court” with a forceful response. He said: “When a bully steals your lunch money in the schoolyard, you have to do something about it, or else the bully will come back over and over again,” he said. “So we’re in this fight, and we’re going to reclaim these seats. We’re not going to allow the bully to win.”"
Do you think that's not business as usual?
1. Yes, I don’t like the politics of delegitimization no matter who indulges in it, and whether it has become business as usual or not.
2. Political rhetoric is not the same as belief.
3. ‘Pack the Court’ may be a very bad idea, but it is working within our existing political system.
J6 and Trump’s many other attempts to overturn the election were independent of both our institutions and factual reality.
4. There are 100 Senators. There are 9 Justices.
5. If all you have is whattaboutism, that means you really can't defend what you want to defend.
"5. If all you have is whattaboutism, that means you really can’t defend what you want to defend."
The point I was trying to make is that Alito never has, in fact, called the election or the Biden presidency illegitimate. That's something that people who don't like him have inferred by the flag flying. However, Democratic officeholders and others have literally called SCOTUS illegitimate, and specifically, some particular justices.
That was in response to your comment “One branch of government including people who think one or both of the other branches are not legitimate is not just politics as usual.”
Well, it is politics as usual since Democrats made it so.
Tough noogies for the Judges. People have been berating and decrying Supreme Court decisions forever. If people find them egregious, then they question their legitimacy. That is the upper limit of any sort of accountability which the Supreme Court generally faces in practice. They are an institution with considerable power. If we aren’t allowed to criticise them, then they are a ruling institution. Part of that criticism is asking why the hell one of them had these flags outside his house and what they imply about his attitudes towards democracy.
Yea, I agree! I don't think the judges take those kind of comments seriously. But I was responding to Sarcastr0's comment: "One branch of government including people who think one or both of the other branches are not legitimate is not just politics as usual."
I would commend you to my points 2 and 3 here - I take factual issue with your characterization of the rhetoric of illegitimacy as actual belief of illegitimacy.
That shit shouldn't be normalized either, but they are two different things.
I said: "I’m not saying that’s where Alito is, I’m saying the commenters who say that wouldn’t matter are absolutely wrong."
So your argument that this isn't where Alito is? Not relevant to this thread.
And you've shown you're quite happy to defend Alito thinking the 2020 election was illegitimate elsewhere, so this looks like another deflection.
Well, it is politics as usual since Democrats made it so.
'It's OK if I do bad thing because Dems do sorta similar bad thing' is nothing more than excusing your own lack of principles.
We're quibbling over the meaning of flags. What if the wife, without any symbolism necessary, was an avowed insurrectionist who used her family's power to take affirmative steps to try and nullify the votes of millions of Americans? In such a situation, the justice's need for recusal (in the least!) would be a lot more obvious, would it not?
Not in the minds of these bigoted, superstitious, half-educated culture war casualties.
You don't need to censor the word "c-word". You can just say "cunt". It's just a word. It doesn't have magical powers. It is beyond my fathoming how it's possible that actual racial slurs and nazi marches deserve first amendment protection but calling someone a cunt could be fighting words. Completely morally disordered worldview, a symptom of incredible sickness.
Though similarly, one is not obligated to write it out if one doesn't want to.
Yes, but it is disturbing when people will glibly write out or say a word with extremely negative racial connotations, but then censor themselves for the delicate sensibilities of people who don’t like dirty words that derive from references to human anatomy.
Please, Daivd, has a point that proudly being the adult who will repeat racial epithets in disregard of “snowflakes'” sensibilities but who also meekly allude to the “c-word” because “How offensive!” demonstrate a: Completely morally disordered worldview, a symptom of incredible sickness
It is a double standard and it’s weird to see people more circumspect about writing out the c-word than the n-word.
Not if those people are Republicans, conservatives, Federalist Society members, and culture war write-offs.
This: "Even in the best possible light, the Alitos should be ashamed of their conduct."
"Alitos" pleural? What exactly did Sam do? Not keep his wife on a tight enough leash?
Let's review that point with the "smash the Patriarchy" set.
If she was the Justice and he was the insurrectionist it'd be just the same.
They believe the Alitos to be generic pod people like they themselves are, just belonging to a different pod. There are no individuals in a pod.
He didn't remove the sign. Why only assign agency to his wife?
Alito was present when his wife engaged in all this. He was, in fact, aware of the flag and it stayed up. He could, in fact, have taken it down. He knows how to operate a flag on a pole, I am sure.
I mean, I guess we could assume his wife is an out-of-control mad woman who won't listen to reason and spits at cars. Okay, we know she does spit at cars. But are we honestly to believe that Alito explained how bad this looked to have the American flag upside down on a flag pole belonging to a Justice of the United States Supreme Court and his wife? After January 6 where the flag had been flown upside down by rioters violently forcing their way into the Capitol?
Alito's defense paints an absolutely horrible picture of his wife. Not of her politics, though those too. But her character is atrocious.
All the more so if Alito really was just a good guy who was trying to get her to do the right thing by not disrespecting the American flag (and possibly showing support for January 6 riots and/or lies about the 2020 election) and who was embarrassed by her spitting at cars and engaging in name-calling with neighbors, but she persisted in her lunatic ways regardless of his voice of reason. That's his defense.
With a marital relationship like that, one might sympathize with his apparent belief that women shouldn't be permitted to make important life decisions for themselves. According to him, his wife is extraordinarily unreasonable, irrational, and vindictive.
But, realistically, the best interpretation of all this assumes she is not actually a complete lunatic. Rather, most likely he chose peace with his wife (which still indicates she is a bit crazy.....who wouldn't be like, "yeah, maybe I shouldn't put that flag up especially with reporters coming to ask about it, people might get the wrong idea") over doing the right thing. (Which would be, among other things, reminding his wife that with great power comes great responsibility.)
So, yes, the Alitos have comported themselves in ways that would be embarrassing to anyone with a modicum of shame.
"Ms. Baden said that she — not her partner, as Justice Alito recalled — used the lewd expression. "
Not sure why the Post is bringing up the person with whom Mrs. Baden is in business. I thought it was her husband that was involved, not her "partner."
You're missing the important point, which is that the Alitos are deplorable jerks.
The Alitos need to move to a better neighnorhood. A homeless encampment next to a toxic waste dump would be a step in the right direction.
Every house on that street should display a sign inviting the Alitos to clear out. Who would want those belligerent, antisocial, un-American losers as neighbors?
Interesting, the way Prof. Blackman directly quotes the part of the Times story that says the Badens' home "does not have a direct view of the Alito residence," yet he claims, with zero factual support, that they put up their second sign "across the street from the Alitos" — so desperate does he seem, to cling to his insistence that the Alitos' inverted U.S. flag must have been raised in response to the sign, which was not directed at the Alitos in particular. If we're being honest, the picture that emerges from the facts alone, without presumptions or spin, is that after the 2020 election Justice Alito came to support, conceptually at least, the overthrow of the United States government by force or violence. The proof is in the raising at the other home of the "Appeal to Heaven" flag referencing John Locke's Second Treatise of Government. The concept of an appeal to heaven is inseparably connected to armed revolt; only God can give permission to kill one's fellow citizens in order to effect a change of government. Prof. Blackman really ought to stop beating this dead horse. Denial and desperation are unbecoming a professor of law.
"Interesting, the way Prof. Blackman directly quotes the part of the Times story that says the Badens’ home “does not have a direct view of the Alito residence,” yet he claims, with zero factual support, that they put up their second sign “across the street from the Alitos” — so desperate does he seem, to cling to his insistence that the Alitos’ inverted U.S. flag must have been raised in response to the sign, which was not directed at the Alitos in particular. "
Do we know exactly where the Badens deployed that sign? I mean, perhaps not on their own property, but, indeed, across the street from the Alitos? Do you know?
The Times story expressly reports that the Badens put up the signs saying “Trump Is a Fascist” and “You Are Complicit” “in their yard”; not in someone else’s yard. So when Prof. Blackman said the signs were “across the street from the Alitos” he did so with “zero factual support.” And yes, I know that he was departing from the reported facts when he wrote that.
Publius is flailing on behalf of his fellow clingers.
Additionally: Probably the most interesting portion of the Times story is this, quoting the mother of the woman who made the anti-Trump signs, explaining why she took them down:
“‘Look what these people can do,’ she said in an interview, recalling her fears at the time about the mob that had stormed the Capitol. ‘I do not want to mark my house.’”
It has often been observed that even though Biden supporters numbered 81 million just four years ago, it is hard to find anyone flying Biden flags, or putting Biden signs on their lawns, or Biden stickers on their vehicles, or wearing Biden gear or Biden bling or Biden tacky gold sneakers or posting images of Biden as a superhero or an astronaut or a cowboy or Rambo on social media. The general takeaway is that Biden’s constituency is not cult-like. More broadly, they may not want to draw public attention to themselves, knowing (since Jan. 6, especially) what kind of behavior is exhibited among some supporters of Biden’s general election opponent.
Might this also make some percentage of Biden supporters significantly less likely to answer questions from anonymous phone callers who tell them they are conducting a voter opinion survey?
That's interesting. While it's certainly anecdotal, I haven't seen a single news story about a Biden sign being stolen or vandalized, or a car with a Biden sticker being vandalized; yet I have seen dozens of such stories regarding Trump signs and Trump bumper stickers. I won't put a Trump sticker on my car for that reason, here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, nor will I fly an Israeli flag in solidarity with Israel, or put up a Trump lawn sign, for fear my property will be damaged.
As an example, run these two searches on youtube:
"car keyed biden sticker"
"car keyed trump sticker"
All of the hits for both searches are cases of anti-Trump folks committing vandalism, including a R.I. State Senator!
I'm not sure what the point would be. I would expect exactly zero reported incidents of vandalism of property involving campaign materials people are afraid to display.
There were lots of Biden signs last time. There are near zero now. You're saying it's because they are afraid of reprisals from Trump supporters? Or could it be that people have soured on Biden (which they have), or would be embarrassed to acknowledge voting for him?
" In polls of swing state voters, 14 percent of those who said they voted for President Biden in 2020 said they weren't backing him now."
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/17/upshot/they-supported-biden-in-2020-what-made-them-change-their-minds-in-2024.html
Here's one I found amusing, in an odd way. A reported stops and removes a Trump sign from a lawn, not her own. She later claimed she thought it was her brother's yard, and that the sign must have been a joke (which is lame, in my opinion, and likely bullshit). The homeowner shoots her with a pellet gun! I don't think that was right, but the money quote is near the end of the video, when the reporter says, referring to the shooter "people should think before they act." Ha, ha, what about her?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miiExxp1Cfk
Was the person who told that lame, likely bullshit story Mr. Alito, Mrs. Alito, Mr. Thomas, or Mrs. Thomas?
Check the video I linked, Arthur.
Yes, it is hard to believe that 81 million people really voted for Biden. We need to have more secure elections. Most of those votes could not be verified.
I didn't realize that Pauline Kael was a commenter on the VC!
I am somehow unsurprised that JB is quoting Alito in Snyder.
To remind everyone, that is one of two cases in which I first truly realized that Alito had gone from bad to utterly terrible.
In Snyder (2011) and Stevens (2010), Alito authored solo dissents ... in other words, the cases were 8-1, that were about as dismissive of both precedent and the First Amendment as I've ever seen a judge be.
Boiled down, Alito embarked on the crusade of, "The FA only protects speech I like, not speech I think is reprehensible." Which is about the level of legal acumen that you'd expect from a rando on the internet, not a judge.
Calling Lathrop a rando is a little harsh. I prefer to say that he has "idiosyncratic views of the Consitituional law."
..... well played.
The issue here is not the language used by either party. Rather, the issue is that one party -- intimately connected to the Supreme Court -- expressed sentiments in a manner which draw into question the objectivity of one of the members of that court. The spouse of a Supreme Court justice must demonstrate the proverbial moral rectitude of Caesar's wife -- and sadly, Mrs. Alito, much like Mrs. Thomas, fails that test.
Well, this isn't the Roman Empire, and neither Thomas nor Alito are emperors. So there's that.
Congratulations on knowing what Empire this is not.
Why are you trolling me? Don't you have a day job, or something else to do?
This is his day job. Don't feed the trollbot.
I think that he is commenting on your overly-literal acceptance of the commonly-used phrase in order to score a point ... well, at least to you.
It is fairly common to invoke that phrase when discussing ethics in the law. You can google it.
I thought you were trolling *us* with that comment. Are we not having a jolly banter?
Ha, ha. Jolly banter is fine.
I’m sure you have a viewpoint neutral standard for evaluating the private affairs of family members of all judges and politicians regardless of where they fall on the ideological spectrum. And I’m sure the media you rely on for those evaluations similarly investigates and reports on all such private activities related to similarly situated public persons, again without regard to political alignment. I’m sure this can’t just be another attempt at establishing an authoritarian framework common in the previously less free world that requires those you disagree with to conform to an often ex post facto standard of perfection, while yourself and those you favor need just meet the standard of a fallible human being, if even that.
This abusive behavior by the left is bound to backfire, just as the #metoo agenda is unlikely to win friends in a Court two of whose members were accused of sexual misconduct by liars during their confirmation hearings. The left is busily discrediting itself on many topics, and even judges are entitled to notice and act upon that fact.
jgalt coming out against rule of law and professionalism.
Speaking of liars, the information from neighbors and newsgathering rebuts the Alitos' story (including timing and motivation) concerning one of the un-American flags.
Neither Alito has had the courage or character to try to explain the second un-American flag.
Two more steps toward Court enlargement. Keep up the good work, clingers!
CBS News: Alito tells congressional Democrats he won't recuse over flags
"Responding to calls from congressional Democrats, Justice Samuel Alito is flatly rejecting calls to recuse himself in two cases before the Supreme Court involving Donald Trump because of two flags that flew outside his homes.
In letters Wednesday to House and Senate Democrats, Alito said he had nothing to do with the flying of the flags, and that nothing about the incidents merited recusal under the code of conduct. In addition, he says, neither he nor his wife knew of the meanings that are now being ascribed to the flags.
"My wife and I own our Virginia home jointly. She therefore has the legal right to use the property as she sees fit, and there were no additional steps that I could have taken to have the flag taken down more promptly," Alito wrote in the letters to Democrats."
" In addition, he says, neither he nor his wife knew of the meanings that are now being ascribed to the flags."
Lying asshole.
Senate Democrats heap pressure on Chief Justice Roberts to rein in Alito amid flag controversy
"Senate Judiciary Committee chair Dick ("Da Nang Dick") Durbin requested to meet with the high court’s head justice and renewed calls for Justice Samuel Alito to recuse himself from cases related to the 2020 presidential election."
Ha, ha.
Just start the hearings and issue subpoenas.
Karen Alito could go first.
Da Nang Dick, is Richard Blumenthal, not Dick Durbin.
But in any case Alito politely refused, he cited the new Supreme Court ethics guidelines, which don’t have a standard of recusal for speculative gossip.
Ah, yes, you are right, I was mistaken.
Lightening things up.
Are Johnsonville Brats considered good? Beef or Pork preferred? I confess it's stupid, but I like the packaging, which is zip-lock. I had a Smoked pork one last night - delish. Just on a hot dog bun with yellow mustard. Tonight I might take the trouble to sauté some onions and peppers. I wish I had some better buns.
The absolute best sausages for sausage and peppers on a bun are Bianco's, who are now in Medford, MA. These are the ones you get at and around Fenway park in Boston.
Don’t know about Johnsonville. I am lucky to live near a guy who makes regular trips to New Orleans and always brings back SO MANY POUNDS of good New Orleans sausage that he gets from “a guy”* there- andouille, boudin, and a bunch I can’t name, but love to eat. He usually drops off ten pounds or so at my place when he makes those trips.
Getting hungry.
*You know. “A guy.” We all have our “a guys” for certain things, and he has his “sausage guy.”
Oh, wow, you are fortunate! I have a "guy," my son, who gets together with some buddies to make sausages once a year. They are superb, but they don't last long! Ha, ha.
I'm sure those New Orleans sausages are great. I've been there several times, and the food is fabulous.
Well, you're lucky too getting home-made sausages! I can imagine that they go quickly.
As for New Orleans, I can only count myself lucky that I don't live there, because every time I visit, I think I've gained at least a pound for every day of the trip. The food (and music) is truly amazing.
I mean, I could choose not to indulge ... but c'mon!
Yea, for some reason I always gain weight and headaches when I go there. 🙂
I loved Chez Paul, Paul Prudhomme's restaurant. OMG, anything served there was so good! I also had the obligatory bananas Foster at Brennans.
.
Likely something that resembled what was going through Ted Cruz's mind when Donald Trump was calling Mrs. Cruz a hideously ugly pig. Repeatedly. With pictures.
I figure the Alito children weren't so young, and might have avoided the emotional scarring experienced by the Cruz children as they struggled to understand how a father should act when someone attacks their mother.
In an extreme fit of pique I once called my sister a fucking fascist. She didn’t retaliate at all, really, as best as I can remember. Later I apologized and said I had no idea where that came from. It was a bad episode during a very stressful family time.
I’m always amused when Americans complain about the use of the c-word, and I can’t figure out why it’s necessary to euphemize it. The Brits and others use it all the time in personal and public discourse and entertainment, with no one any worse for the wear. I’m not sure it actually means anything anymore other than as a synonym for jerk or bastard or even asshole.
D.H. Lawrence used the word cunt as a specific and erotic term of endearment, in reference to a female’s genitalia. So it has distinguished literary credentials. So by now do all the words and phrases on George Carlin’s list. Why are we still so freaked out by words our children learn and use by age 12 or so? Would it have made some difference if she had called her a pussy? Similar anatomical and pejorative connotations in some circumstances but used freely by cat fanciers all over. Even appears in children’s stories, poems, and songs.
All this reminds me of the flap over a student’s sidewalk sign saying Bong Hits For Jesus. Many linguists pointed out that the phrase actually has no literal meaning at all but can be read in so many ways that it has no symbolic meaning either. My favorite reading references a baseball game in which a hitter with last name Bong pinch hits for a popular player (perhaps a Dominican or Puerto Rican) with first name Jesus. It’s all just word games after all, and we should all just grow up.
Yeah... "cunt" has a very crude meaning here and I've heard it in public in the UK on more than one occasion (and in more than one Guy Ritchie movie.) But over here, "fanny" is a polite word for butt. In the UK... notsomuch.
Now do fag.
Easy solution to this "out of control" spouse problem. Moving forward, all Supreme Court justices should be unmarried and celibate . . . like Elena Kagan.