The Volokh Conspiracy
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What Differentiates the Political Left and Right?
Matt Yglesias and Bryan Caplan offer contrasting theories. But neither fully works.

If you follow political issues, you probably often see references to the "left" and the "right." These terms are ubiquitous. But what do they really mean? Do they capture any systematic distinctions that cut across time and space, or are they just arbitrary labels of convenience, perhaps even ones that oversimplify and mislead?
Over the years, there have been various attempts to develop a systematic theory of left and right. Recently, prominent liberal political commentator Matt Yglesias wrote an article arguing that the key differences are that the right supports religion and hierarchy, while the left is secularist and egalitarian. He argues this distinction unifies all or most left-right conflicts from the French Revolution to the present.
Libertarian economist Bryan Caplan (my colleague at George Mason University) has for several years been promoting his "simplistic theory of left and right." As he summarizes it:
- The left is anti-market.
- The right is anti-left.
Both Yglesias and Caplan offer interesting insights, and I'm a big fan of both their writings on a variety of other issues. The Yglesias article is a helpful overview and summary of a great many left-right conflicts. And Caplan's position captures some genuine dynamics.
But, ultimately, neither theory really works as an overarching classification system. Many movements don't fit the two theories, or outright contradict them.
Let's take Yglesias' religion/hierarchy theory first. If religion is right-wing, it's hard to explain explicitly leftist religious movements such as Liberation Theology, which combines Catholicism and Marxism. Worse, it's hard to explain the position of the mainstream Catholic Church!
Pope Francis is socially conservative on issues like abortion. But he also takes positions usually considered left-wing on economic regulation, the rights of migrants, the welfare state, and environmental policy. While the present pope has taken some of the Church's "left" positions further than his recent predecessors, the general idea of combining interventionist positions on economic issues with social conservatism is one the Catholic Church has held for a long time.
If your religion-focused theory of left and right has grave difficulty accounting for the leadership of the world's largest religious denomination, that seems like a significant problem for the theory. And Catholicism is far from the only denomination that doesn't fit the theory well. Many Protestant, Jewish, and Muslim movements, for example, are also anomalies in Yglesias' framework.
The hierarchy side of the theory also has issues. Consider the fact that communist regimes feature rigid hierarchies, with power concentrated in a small elite at the apex of the ruling party. Does that make communist regimes "right wing"? Are their opponents, therefore, necessarily left-wing? What if they are conservatives or religious traditionalists, like Alexander Solzhenitsyn? A theory under which Stalin and Mao are right-wing and Solzhenitsyn left-wing seems problematic. At the very least, it's highly counterintuitive.
Yglesias' hierarchy prong creates other anomalies, as well. For example, he notes that a radical Islamist citizen of Israel would be considered left-wing under the theory, presumably because such a person is opposed to the dominant hierarchy in his or her country. If radical Islamists can qualify as left-wing despite their extreme sexism, homophobia, intolerance, and rejection of secularism, that's yet another problem for the theory.
Caplan's approach has issues of its own. There is some truth to the idea that many rightists are more "anti-left" than anything else. For example, it sometimes seems like right-wing Twitter influencers prioritize "owning the libs" over every other objective, including consistency with their own previously professed values. It is also true that many people generally considered left-wingers are deeply anti-market.
But the theory has problems, nonetheless. If the main focus of the right is being anti-left, and left-wingers are defined by their hatred of markets, one would expect right-wingers to be highly pro-market! In such a framework, being pro-market would be the most anti-left stance possible.
Yet, throughout history, there have been many right-wing movements that are highly anti-market themselves. Consider, for example, the Nazis, fascists, and a variety of other nationalist movements, up to and including today's "national conservatives" in the US.
Moreover, there are important right-wing movements that focus primarily on agendas of their own, not just opposing the left. That is true of many of the aforementioned nationalists. It is also true of many religious social conservatives. These people - many of them, at least - genuinely believe that abortion is murder, or that same-sex marriage is likely to erode the foundations of Western civilization. If they are anti-left, it is because the left supports these things they hate, not because being anti-left is itself their primary motive.
Caplan's conception of the left also has shortcomings. Some left-wing movements really are defined by their hostility to the market. That is surely true of most varieties of socialism, for example. Others, however, clearly prioritize different issues, such as promoting racial and gender equality, or enhancing bodily autonomy. Those focused on the latter issues will sometimes even advocate radical reductions in government regulation of the market (as with, e.g., efforts to abolish the War on Drugs, end immigration restrictions, and so on).
Caplan, Yglesias, or both could potentially respond to my criticisms by saying they are arguing for a different way of using "right" and "left" than is common today. If the correct theory of right and left concludes that communists are right-wing and radical Islamists left-wing (at least in Israel), then we should just get used to calling them that! But such linguistic revisionism is unlikely to succeed, and it isn't clear what value it would have if it did.
Ultimately, I lean towards Verlan Lewis and Hyrum Lewis's argument in their recent book The Myth of Left and Right, which holds that "left" and "right" are essentially arbitrary classifications that denote very different things at different times and places. For example, US right-wingers today tend to be anti-abortion, but that isn't true of most of their European counterparts, and wasn't necessarily true of their own predecessors in earlier eras of American history (e.g. - Ronald Reagan was pro-choice as governor California in the late 1960s).
I still sometimes use "right" and "left," because the terms are hard to avoid. But I don't think they refer to a deep underlying continuity across time and space, dating back to the 18th century. At best, they refer to the clustering of positions on the political spectrum at a given time and place. When that clustering changes (e.g.- right-wingers in the US have become much more hostile to free markets in recent years), the use of the terms also changes - or starts to become confusing.
By contrast, there are deep continuities when it comes to more specific ideologies, such as socialism, libertarianism, liberalism, and nationalism. Today's socialists have much in common with their 19th century predecessors, such as advocacy of state control of the economy and economic egalitarianism. Today's libertarians have much in common with forbears like John Locke and Adam Smith (e.g.- support for strong property rights and tight limits on government power across a wide range of issues). Libertarianism is just one branch of liberalism. And today's liberal movements still have much in common with their Enlightenment roots (e.g. - reliance on reason, skepticism of tradition, support for a variety of strong individual rights). Finally, today's nationalists have much in common with those of a century ago, including the Nazis and fascists.
Advocates of libertarianism, socialism, liberalism, and nationalism in different countries, also have important commonalities. For example, socialists in many different societies favor similar economic policies. Bernie Sanders' positions on most economic issues are similar to those of his European counterparts. The same goes for libertarians. Thus, most of the economic policy agenda of Javier Milei, the libertarian-leaning president of Argentina, is instantly recognizable to US libertarians (myself included).
Obviously, there are noteworthy internal disagreements among libertarians, socialists, and adherents of other specific ideologies. But they tend to be much narrower than those often encountered within the nebulous categories of "right" and "left."
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I agree that the concept of left and right as commonly defined, breaks down over long periods of time. A large chunk of today’s right hold positions largely similar to classically liberal and ancient republicans. Much of today’s left on the other hand favors collectivist and top down power structures reminiscent of monarchists/oligopolists. Sort of throws a monkey wrench in the leftwing eschatological myth that history marches in a eternal right to left direction.
You seriously don’t think Trump favors top down power structures? And you’re going to suggest that Trumpists want anything other than what Trump wants?
Yes, he certainly doesn’t favor “collectivist” power structures. He is definitely not any kind of collective or inclined to share in his approach to power. Democracy, on the other hand, could certainly be described as a “collectivist power structure” in comparison.
But top-down? Come on. What else is he?
Given that almost every single major institution of note mostly sides with the left or at least pays lip service to sjwism I would say that the right wing camp is less in bed with our current top down power structures.
This is just 'The right is anti-left.'
It is not classical liberalism. Or any coherent ideology.
And I think Caplan is right on that bit of his definition. "The right" is not a coherent concept, it's simply "everybody else" once you have defined "the left." You cannot really get Solzhenitsyn and Milton Friedman into the same taxi. They're just some of the variety of people throwing bananas at the Lefty Taxi.
I don't think Yglesias is far wrong with "secular and egalitarian" for the (modernish) left - say since say the Congress of Vienna, at least at the helicopter level.
Caplan's "anti-market" definition is a particular manifestation of "egalitarian" depending on the fact that the left does not merely deplore inequality but has ambitions to do something about it. Doing something about it is necessarily "anti-market."
The hell it isn't a coherent ideology, Gaslighto....
It was the ideology of the Revolution.
It was the ideology of the Jacksonian Democracy.
It was part of the UNION ideology during the Civil War.
It was FDR's ideology of the New Deal.
It was LBJ's ideology of the Great Society.
AND IT'S TRUMP'S IDEOLOGY OF MAGA....
It involves throwing people like you out onto the sidewalk, but it has ALWAYS involved that....
And Ilya hates America and Real Americans, but I digress....
I'm not saying Trump doesn't have his authoritarian side. But the reason I am supporting Trump over Biden is because he is much more likely to leave me and mine alone than Biden and the Democrats.
I trust Trump to let me buy an internal combustion engine for a car, motorcycle, or generator. Choose gas appliances to power my home. Let me own the guns I wish to buy. Not artificially raise the cost of flying between continents. And not over tax me, whether its income taxes, carbon taxes, or inflation.
I don't trust Biden and the Democrats to let me do not do everything they can to restrict my freedom in all those aspects.
Didn’t you say a couple of weeks ago you weren’t voting for Trump?
Your prediction of your short term freedom and neglect of anyone else Trump has made promises to go after is about right though.
Many an authoritarian has come into power supported by similar myopic thinking.
I said from the beginning I would vote for anybody but Trump, in the primaries (well except Chris Christie). And Nikki Haley got my vote in the primary.
I also said that I couldn't think of any Democrat that could possibly get my vote, except possibly Tulsi Gabbard.
But now Trump is the nominee, and the Democrats didn't even try to come up with an alternative to Biden, so I'm going to join Chris Sununu and 51% of my fellow Americans and vote for Trump.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/14/sununu-stephanopoulos-trump-00152133
And being worried about another decade of uncontrolled inflation and 4 more years of uncontrolled immigration is not myopic thinking.
being worried about another decade of uncontrolled inflation
Are you aware that there are countries other than the US?
Wait, you mean that there are other wealthy countries with inflation higher than ours? How could that be when they aren’t run by Democrats? (Austria, Australia, Sweden, Norway, for instance) How about real GDP growth? Unemployment?
If economics matters to you (Kazinski) that much, then I would assume that you’ve spent a lot of effort learning the details and analysis of how all of Biden’s policies have affected all of the economy of the U.S., what was beyond the federal government’s control, and what, if anything, would be different under a Republican President?
'And being worried about another decade of uncontrolled inflation and 4 more years of uncontrolled immigration is not myopic thinking'
And you think Trump will solve those? The guy who added a trillion to the national debt? The guy who decided that the best way to deal with the border was to worsen the human rights violations? Who's promised to round up Latinos and put them in camps? Who wanted to ban Muslims?
"added a trillion to the national debt"
Piker. Its over 6 trillion under Biden.
Those tax cuts for the wealthy sure did a number on it.
Sure that's it. Tax cuts.
Not huge, huge Biden spending
Trump didn't spend? Did Mexico pay?
"The guy who decided that the best way to deal with the border was to worsen the human rights violations? Who’s promised to round up Latinos and put them in camps? Who wanted to ban Muslims?"
And you assume these are bad things???
Well I assume Kazinski would like to maintain at least the illusion of human decency and fairness, no matter how impossible to reconcile with Trumpism.
"The guy who added a trillion to the national debt?"
I'm pretty sure Congress passing spending bills by veto proof margins had at least something to do with that.
Unless those items were built in another country!
So we build them here. And they will be of higher quality as well.
Manufacturing protectionism doesn't have a great record in fostering product reliability.
I trust Trump...
The only thing I would trust Trump to do is whatever he thinks will benefit Trump.
For the one thing that is essential to maintaining a republic, respecting the will of the people, Trump has proven himself to be completely untrustworthy.
I distrust Trump less than I distrust Biden.
Why? Trump tried to illegally overturn the election and told massive lies about it. What has Biden done that's remotely equivalent?
Totally fuck up the country?!?
No, Bush fucked up the country, Obama and Biden helped clean it up.
‘I trust Trump to let me buy an internal combustion engine for a car, motorcycle, or generator.’
What, you think there’s some sort of choice involved there? That a particularly poisonous form of fuel is a symbol of freedom? That US society is designed to maximise your realiance on that fuel to such a degree that you’re emotionally invested in using it as a ind of comfort blanket? This boils down to: I’Il object to mitigating climate change and reducing environmental degradation. Why? Well, all that sounds like an inconvenience and/or you're more scared of forms of energy that don’t poison or poison less because…. because…
If China can do it, then we can too....
The US doesn't seem able to do anything, frankly.
Well it sounds like you are endorsing curtailment of even clean fuels like natural gas, propane, and oil.
I won't vote for any candidate that endorses lunacy like that.
None of those are clean. I support their replacement. Unless you drink the stuff and are physically addicted to it, replacing them is win-win and opposition is purely reactionary.
"What, you think there’s some sort of choice involved there? "
I know this will blow your mind, but, yeah, choices you disapprove of are still "choices".
Fossil fuels dominate because of systematic removal of any alternative choices and deliberate social designs to foster dependency and the sabotage and deliberate delay of the development of alternatives, so, the choices YOU disapprove of are the ones being curtailed.
Fossil fuels dominate because they WORK, and work economically. You don't need to sabotage alternatives to something that works.
That's why advancing electric cars is proving to require massive subsidizes and mandates in practice: Because they do not, at their present level of development, make economic/technical sense.
The volumetric and mass energy density of batteries really sucks. A Li-Ion battery pack stores about 0.3MJ/Kg, and 0.4MJ/liter.
Gasoline? 47.5MJ/Kg, 34.6MJ/L. About a hundred times better. A HUNDRED TIMES.
This means that a gasoline car can have good range and carrying capacity, while an electric car has to push efficiency to the maximum to just be sort of sucky.
A Kia Sorento, to pick something at random, costs about $34K. It can tow 2 tons, can carry 7 people, has an internal cargo capacity of about 75 cubic feet, has a curb weight of about 3,800lbs, and a range fully fueled of maybe 460 miles.
So, let's compare this to a Tesla Model 3 standard range, with about the same curb weight.
Range, 270 miles vs 460. Assuming you don't need to use the HVAC, the range drops to about 150 miles.
19.8 cubic feet cargo capacity, vs 75.
Seats up to 5 people, if you don't mind being a little cramped in the back. Vs 7 comfortably.
Towing capacity 1 ton.
Price: $41K And repairs are insanely expensive.
So, the gasoline vehicle of the same weight beats the most advanced EV on the market On. Every. Single. Metric.
Except for acceleration, I'll give the Tesla that. Electric motors are pretty torquey.
And, worse, as batteries improve, they more and more resemble explosives, because they combine the oxidizer and fuel in one package. (The reason the energy density sucks to begin with; Gas cars don't have to carry 400 miles worth of air around.)
Now, that's TODAY. I am a technological optimist, I think they'll eventually crack the battery problem, maybe get aluminum/air batteries with decent power density, and the comparison will look better. And fossil fuels are going to eventually run out. So, electric vehicles MAY be the future. Or maybe they'll always be second best, and synthetic fuels will beat them in the long run.
But today? The only reason EVs are even in the running is that they're very heavily subsidized and mandated, and the ICE vehicles are being deliberately suppressed. So, you're not just wrong, you've literally got things backwards!
One of the best ways to spur innovation is to commercialize via subsidies.
Nothing innovates like the market.
You can say that all night and day, and the fact would remain that fossil fuels aren't, as Nige claims, sabotaging the alternative. That actually gets the dynamic backwards, the alternatives are instead massively subsidized.
If it weren't for the sabotage and the delays and the lies and the billions of fossil fuel money, the alternatives would already exist in viable quantities.
‘You don’t need to sabotage alternatives to something that works.’
You actually do because fossil fuels suck – they’re filthy, the industry is massively powerful and corrupt, they’ve caused wars and keep oligarchs in power, and using them is changing the climate. If you didn’t sabotage the alternatives, nobody sane would be using them. You can't even frame it right. The alternative to ICE cars is not EV cars, it’s public transport.
And, again, public transport is massively subsidized just to stay sort of viable.
Your definition of 'sabotage' appears to be "not subsidized and mandated as much as I'd like".
Sure, and they should be, but so are fossil fuels, to the tune of trillions. And yeah, you can sabotage things by blocking or cutting funds and subsidies for their development and expansion, that is often how it works.
Right=dexter
Left=sinister
As I recall, Dexter was pretty sinister.
Teleology (right) vs consequentialist ethics. (Left)
Minimizing the worst case (right) vs maximizing the best case.(left)
There are lots of splits that roughly line up at any given time.
All those single comparisons will be reductive.
The philosophies are instrumental, the coalitions are the lodestone.
You start with a political realignment, usually around a single person that a new coalition can get behind, but for all different reasons.
Over time this coalition is synthesized into an ideology, for branding and cognitive harmonization purposes.
I love my liberal ideology, but I have no illusions it has a deep historical tradition that goes back anywhere before FDR. Most of it is post-LBJ, and some of it is post-Clinton.
To be clear, I don't think left vs right is a fixed concept. That axis drifts around as time passes. They're two moderately cohesive blobs in a high dimensioned space, drifting around, and the left-right axis is just the line between the centers of the blobs.
But neither is it entirely arbitrary, because you couldn't just grab concepts entirely randomly, and assemble left and right coalitions that would hold together for more than a moment.
Rather, I think that left vs right always at any given time reflects SOME fundamental dichotomy in thinking, but it isn't necessarily going to remain the same dichotomy over very long periods of time. There's an internal logic to the divide, but it changes from time to time. Things get kind of confusing when it shifts.
The dichotomies I identified above are ones I think are valid at the moment, or at least during the period I've been observing the situation, but I would never claim they're permanent.
Remember that the Jacksonian Democrats all became Republicans in 1933.
"Minimizing the worst case (right) vs maximizing the best case.(left)"
I would've said the exact opposite. The precautionary principle (left) is about minimizing worst cases. Meritocracy (right) is about maximizing best cases. Markets (where failure is permitted its natural consequences) are about maximizing best cases. Large security net systems are about minimizing worst cases.
Where is the precautionary principle in gender ideology, on race politics, in all the social controls and engineering the Left loves so much? Seems like they're the exact opposite of following any level of precaution and they most certainly have no concept of principles. The modern left is just id run amok.
In practice, not in rhetoric. The "precautionary principle" is really just an excuse for exercising power in certain areas, it's hardly a general principle the left actually follows.
Take the greatest example of the precautionary principle, global warming. Does the left use it to advise against taking some experimental action that could have terrible consequences? Seldom. (About the only example would be their opposition to even performing any experiments on things like aerosol dispersal or iron fertilization.) Rather, they use it as an excuse to take control and mandate major changes in all sorts of areas, on the basis that just continuing as things are going will cause a disaster.
Or, take a disease that has a death/morbidity rate similar to a worse than average influenza. Would a precautionary principle really suggest a mass vaccination program with a largely experimental vaccine?
That's not a genuine precautionary principle, it's just an excuse.
It's the right that generally opposes massive changes to things that are currently working in a survivable fashion.
Your analysis doesn't actually deal with the precautionary principle. You are making a case that the right favors the status quo and the left tries to improve things (even if you think either their goals or methods are misguided).
Your example of climate change is an example. When faced with a potentially catastrophic event, the precautionary principle doesn't, as with the American "right" (I am in the camp that thinks these labels are largely useless), dictate doing nothing or pretending that there is no danger. In fact, it does dictate not engaging in activities that may have catastrophic consequences to the environment:
— Freeman Dyson, Report from 2001 World Economic Forum
a disease that has a death/morbidity rate similar to a worse than average influenza
Prior to the vaccine, at least, the case fatality rate for Covid was roughly one order of magnitude greater than that for the flu, which is not "similar to" worse than average influenza. Plus, it was more contagious, etc., than influenza, which also raised the overall risk. Hence, the precautionary principle wouldn't say do nothing.
a largely experimental vaccine
This is not true in any relevant sense. Aside from the fact that, retrospectively, it was safe and effective, it wasn't some huge risk of a new, dangerous concept. Conceptually it was understood and there were significant clinical trials before roll-out.
Again, you've confused the precautionary principle with do nothing new, but keep doing what you were already doing. Your climate example reveals that. But that's just an argument for the status quo, not an application of the precautionary principle (which sometimes supports the status quo and sometimes doesn't).
"Prior to the vaccine, at least, the case fatality rate for Covid was roughly one order of magnitude greater than that for the flu,"
Public Health Lessons Learned From Biases in Coronavirus Mortality Overestimation
"Conclusions:
Sampling bias in coronavirus mortality calculations led to a 10-fold increased mortality overestimation in March 11, 2020, US Congressional testimony. This bias most likely followed from information bias due to misclassifying a seasonal influenza IFR as a CFR, evident in a NEJM.org editorial. Evidence from the WHO confirmed that the approximate CFR of the coronavirus is generally no higher than that of seasonal influenza. By early May 2020, mortality levels from COVID-19 were considerably below predicted overestimations, a result that the public attributed to successful mitigating measures to contain the spread of the novel coronavirus."
The bottom line is that they had mistakenly compared the CFR (Case Fatality Rate) for Covid to the IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) for Influenza. "Infections" are everybody who contracts a disease, "cases" are only those people who come to the attention of the medical community due to it.
In diseases where you have a high rate of asymptomatic or mild infections, these numbers can be radically different, because the medical community never encounters the mild cases, which accordingly never become 'cases'.
So, no, actually it was NOT ten times more deadly than influenza.
I will gladly grant that total excess mortality rose a lot compared to a bad flu season, but there's a good deal of evidence that was actually a result of the measures taken to combat Covid, not the actual disease. Tanking the economy, delaying 'elective' procedures like heart and cancer surgery, these things cost lives.
"there’s a good deal of evidence that was actually a result of the measures taken to combat Covid, not the actual disease,"
No, there isn't. There is a good deal of evidence that, in fact, Covid was initially much deadlier and more infectious than the seasonal flu. The excess death rate had already begun a rapid climb prior to any activity restrictions which began in March 2020.
There is lots of evidence that treatments for Covid improved dramatically and the virus itself evolved to be less deadly (which is not unusual given killing the host is rarely a good evolutionary strategy for viruses). But the excess deaths occurred in all countries, not just those who adopted the restrictions you hate and, in fact, comparing Sweden and Norway strongly suggests you are wrong.
"The COVID-19-associated mortality rate was almost ten-fold higher (2.9 versus 0.3 per 100,000 person-weeks) in Sweden than in Norway and the peaks of COVID-19 cause-specific deaths corresponded to the observed peaks in all-cause mortality"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8807990/
You're just wrong.
Ah, the old Millennium Bug paradox. If you warn that something is going to do damage, prepare for and avoid or mitigate the damage, idiots will come along later and ask, what was the big deal?
They actually identified a genuine error that threw the numbers off by a factor of ten, and that's your response?
Pretty much. You're talking about estimates. The death toll has reached seven million worldwide. That’s some flu.
Yea, it includes motorcyclists who were beheaded in crashes. That's some flu to kill them WHEN THEIR HEAD IS NO LONGER ATTACHED TO THEIR BODIES which would normally kill someone....
No it didn't.
Man who died in motorcycle crash counted as COVID-19 death in Florida: Report
Of course, I already knew of your habit of flatly denying easily verifiable facts.
Well, that's Florida for you.
Brett,
Yeah, if by counted, you mean mistakenly and then removed. So, not included in the final numbers or, it would appear, in any final reports issued.
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death
Yeah, they literally identified the exact error that caused that number to be too high, and you're sticking with that number anyway.
They hypothesized, but relied on a flawed report that made some basic errors. And their analysis had was not based on challenging the number of deaths due to Covid, it dealt with estimates of how many people were infected. 7 million people have died from Covid-19 worldwide.
WHAT Millennium bug?!?
My microwave oven is still blinking 12:00 because I am too lazy to reset it after the most recent power failure. It still works perfectly fine and microwaving something for 4 minutes is microwaving it for 4 minutes even if its clock is set to Russian time....
Do I really care?!?
Yeah, and the hole in the ozone layer? Pfft!
It closed, stupid...
Derp.
The 2020 article you cite relies for its analysis on a 2020 study conducted in Santa Clara, California, which was extremely flawed as pointed out at the time. Consequently, the analysis is flawed. Bad input = bad output.
For an example of a contemporaneous takedown:
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/04/19/fatal-flaws-in-stanford-study-of-coronavirus-prevalence/
(We had this discussion in 2020. You were wrong then, you're wrong now.)
What is certainly true is that what is "left wing" here is centrist in most advanced democracies, and this has been true for some time.
A factor left out here (I don't blame Ilya for this because he doesn't know much about the Catholic Church) is institutional. The Church does not want to do anything that undermines the authority of its centuries-old hierarchy. It doesn't go back on its prior pronouncements. That is why it's stuck with its ridiculous anti-contraception position and why it won't allow women priests. It's also why it opposes socialism (the Papacy for centuries has been in bed with -- sometimes literally -- capitalist ruling interests). As for liberation theology, it was drummed out of the church by John Paul II and it's creeping back only because Francis isn't saying anything about it.
If “advanced democracies” means mostly Europe, then ask if they have positions on abortion and universal college which are as “left” as the situation in the U. S. today.
The Catholic Church appears to be changing its mind of many key issues.* Religious freedom, divorce, blessing same-sex unions…if it’s a purely human institution I’d say it’s on the way to full Episcopalianization.
*But the changes are all heretical, so they don’t count, according to right-wing Catholic dissenters.
The Church changes its mind only when it’s being prompted or coerced or bludgeoned into doing so by outside forces. It has changed its mind on slavery, geocentrism, democracy, separation of church and state, freedom of speech, and (finally) antisemitism. But only because it had to.
Likewise, it finally dealt with pervasive sexual abuse by clergy (and hiding it by bishops) only because it had to, not because it wanted to.
I recommend the book “Papal Sin” by Garry Wills.
Right.
Remember the idea that "Error has no rights," a big part of Catholic political thought until a few decades ago.
Sex abuse and cover-up aren't right or left - you see left and right clerics doing it.
Concerning the Church's move to the left - for a generation or two that has been led by *inside* forces, not outside.
You see members of any institution whatsoever that has any access to children doing it. For instance, there's a big problem with it in K-12 secular schools. It just doesn't get such dramatic reporting.
You're just not going to see this in institutions that lack access to children, that's all.
"for a generation or two that has been led by *inside* forces, not outside."
It's been actively opposed by "outside" forces, if by that you mean the laity as opposed to the priests. The main thing restraining it has been, I think, that the Church has been getting most of it's priests in the West from the 2nd and 3rd world, and they're pretty conservative on doctrine.
If “advanced democracies” means mostly Europe, then ask if they have positions on abortion and universal college which are as “left” as the situation in the U. S. today.
Europe is much closer to the U.S. "left" on abortion than the right. You probably hang you hat on the bright line gestational age rules, but in Western Europe the countries with those gestational age limits provide pretty easy work arounds and generally explicitly provide that abortion is allowed where (for example in France) "there exists a strong probability that the unborn child is suffering from a disorder of particular seriousness recognized as incurable at the moment of diagnosis." If Western Europe is your guide to sane abortion policy, then the Democratic Party is closest to your views. That you apparently think otherwise says a lot about your knowledge of the world (or distortion of Democratic policies) and little about "the left."
I presume by "universal college" you mean the idea that everyone should go to college, but that's not the position of the Democratic Party or the last two presidents from the Democratic Party. Obama, in fact, pushed greater funding for vocational training programs based, in significant part, on European models. In most of Western Europe, percent of the population with college degrees is similar to or higher than in the U.S. except Germany and Italy. And, no, wanting cost and quality of elementary and high school education not being a barrier to college is not the same as advocating that everyone should go to college. And, in fact, the European model where cost is not really a barrier to higher education is what "the left" has been after. Again, the Democratic Party is generally trying to achieve what has been achieved in Europe. (Tuition and fees at public universities in Germany and France total a few hundred dollars a year, for example.)
As I see it, the difference in "left" and "right" in the U.S. on college is mostly about access, though there is an anti-education strain in the "right", I don't think that's the dominant strain. At least not yet. And plenty on the American "left" recognize that college is not the best choice for many people, but, again, prefer that everyone be able to go if they choose. To link the two, the American "left" is pro-choice on higher education. The "right" is on eduction, as they are on abortion, pro-choice if you are of the right socioeconomic class but are otherwise unsympathetic.
You seem to think "the right" is advocating policies similar to those in Europe with respect to education and abortion when, in fact, it is "the left" that is advocating policies much more like those in Europe.
I love how progs constantly harp on a few decades in late 20th-early 21st century Western Europe as the be all end all proof that the predominant style of politics practiced there is the absolute best and only option for mankind now and forever.
The countless other millennia of human existence mean nothing. This was the Grand Experiment that proved the bestest system of all time.
Talk about taking the cake in smugness. 19th century British Lords in their robes and pith hats must be dropping their tea in shock at the gall of it all. I guess SJWs are right about one thing. Europeans never lost their enormous sense of arrogance and superiority.
I do agree that in a lot of ways mapping another nation's politics onto our own does not make for a good analogy.
But you do the same thing. Somehow, I don't think you give much credence to the millennia of human existence in India.
Really, you mean post-enlightenment Europe (you know, where classical liberalism came from)
'Europeans never lost their enormous sense of arrogance and superiority.'
Mostly it's the way having a serious health crisis doesn't mire them in horrific debt.
George Orwell famously pointed out that there is no meaningful difference between the extremes of the political right and the extremes of the political both end up with similar kinds of governments. Since both need to hate an enemy, both need to emphasize differences.
Orwell also suggested, towards the end of his life, that economic organization just isn’t what is fundamentally important to most people.
If you don't think the right places strong emphasis on religion explain the politics of the evangelical movement. Explain Christian nationalism.
In general, ISTM, the right is way more likely to adopt religious arguments, and consider religious belief as an important and positive component of society. Liberal Christians are not running around putting up crosses in parks, or demanding that schools require students to pray.
Oh, and the left, as a whole, is not "anti-market." Some are, yes, but by and large I would say liberals take a much more nuanced - and accurate - view of the market than conservatives.
It's a mechanism that works extremely well most of the time, but clearly has flaws, where it makes sense for government to intervene.
Maybe it's changing today, but traditionally there were plenty of politically-active left-wing religion-mongers. Walter Rauschenbusch, William Jennings Bryan, Martin Luther King, William Sloane Coffin, Robert Drinan.
I dunno, the Moral Majority is pretty recent; I don't feel like it's an essential part of the right yet.
Well, there's obviously a lot of nuance. But folks have always understood that there are different elements. I've heard lots of people say they are socially on the left and economically on the right. That divide isn't perfect, but it's a start. The left are more willing to have the government regulate economic choices and and less likely to have have the government individual social decisions. Not completely, of course (see gun rights). But that leads to a sort of related philosophical difference: the left believes those in need should be helped collectively, while the right tends to believe that those in need should be helped by individual choice. And that's why gun rights falls where it does - because if guns never hurt other people, the left probably wouldn't care as much. But since they do, the left believes that we should collectively limit their harm while the right believes the guns are a matter of personal responsibility.
Eh. I think the American Left, as the current Party of Government tends to view individual rights to keep and bear arms as a threat to Government, concerns about protecting innocent lives being a plausible cover for worrying about protecting their own hierarchical selves.
'tends to view individual rights to keep and bear arms as a threat to Government'
No, they tend to view the extremist approach to gun rights as a threat to school children, cinema goers and people in malls and cinemas.
Sure, if you can't engage their arguments, just try to brand them as "extremists", Right?
Stop whining.
So,
1. I don't think it is extremist to believe in gun rights
2. I think it's empirically wrong to say that people on the left see guns as a threat to the government as the problem. The only two examples of people using arms to stay in power in the last 160 years are so are people who fit the definition of right.
3. I do think that people who think we should have gun rights to protect ourselves against the government are a bit extremist, even if it sort of made sense in 1787. I don't actually think this is most gun right folks. But it's a few, and I find those views paranoid. But that doesn't mean the government isn't out to get me...
1. It’s possible to be extremist about gun rights.
2. Nobody seriously thinks they’re a threat to the government. A threat to social stability in the event of the wrong sort of crisis, maybe. Far more likely to be turned on neighbours and 'undesireables' under certain conditions, in support of a certain type of government. Makes them trivially easy for criminals to obtain, and for sporadic senseless massacres.
3. I quite like the personal self defense argument. But ‘self defense’ and ‘expensive hobby’ are not the same thing.
I like what Orwell said about the Catholic Church. "One can't be both Catholic and mature." If you want a shock, read the blog of Prof. Stephen Bainbridge. In 2003 I followed a VC link to an article of his where he makes plain that the Church is in favor of labor unions and as a Catholic he "must give assent". A strange thing for a professor to say.
https://www.professorbainbridge.com/professorbainbridgecom/2003/11/private-sector-unions-catholic-social-thought-and-economic-analysis.html
"just arbitrary labels of convenience, perhaps even ones that oversimplify and mislead"
It's almost like that.
I no longer feel any particular "tribal" pride in being "right," and I'm happy to adopt anything any wise insights from the left (including insights they used to have but discarded - like free speech for instance).
The fact is, though, that so long as I disagree with certain specific issues on which progressives brook no dissent, I'll be on the Right.
I think the Warren Court had some good decisions and some bad ones. I think a safety net is great, especially for the groups mentioned by Hubert Humphrey (young, old, disabled). I'm for paying for every kid's elementary and secondary education (though, alas for my progressivism, this includes paying for education disapproved of by teachers' unions). There ought to be supervision of the big corporations.
Yet I dare not label myself a leftist. I think the national debt is a problem. I don't think men should be on women's sports teams. I think suddenly adding to the number of Essential Allies and getting even *more* enmeshed in foreign wars would be a bad idea even if we could afford it. Etc.
In short, I am what some would call a reactionary clinger MAGA extremist.
The fact is, though, that so long as I disagree with certain specific issues on which progressives brook no dissent, I’ll be on the Right.
Both sides have their purity test.
If it's any consolation, I think you're more right than left but not really on the right.
You have 2 issues that are your hobby horses, and neither has a particular partisan constituency.
"The fact is, though, that so long as I disagree with certain specific issues on which progressives brook no dissent, I’ll be on the Right. "
That's pretty much how I ended up on the right; When I decided that the LP had become a futile joke, and started looking for a new political home, I looked in both 'directions'.
The first deal breaker on the left was gun control. I don't trust a political movement that wants me defenseless.
The second deal breaker was their economics. If you're poor, it hardly even matters anymore that you're free, you can't afford to do anything.
And the third was censorship. I correctly identified that the left's talk about freedom of speech was just talk.
There's a lot on the right that I don't particularly like, but it all at least seems survivable.
The Margrave describes a somewhat ambiguous manner in which he (she?) comes to be on the right. But it's as clear an explanation as any of how I too have come to be caucusing with the right.
Kudos to Margrave, who's typically pretty good at issuing reasonable perspectives while avoiding overreach.
It certainly shows how some people will rationalise voting for the stupidest, most irrational and authoritrian candidate because the other side said something mean about racists or whatever. 'Brook no dissent,' whatever that's supposed to mean.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/brook-no-not-brook
Nige's misrepresentations provide yet another reason to avoid progressives. It's a binary - you either like Biden or you're a Trump cultist. As if there were no other candidates.
Though if the duopolists like Nige had their way, those would be the only options allowed to the voters.
I mean, there are no other candidates. Seems like you're blaming me for that situation, and strategically ignoring the kinds of things Trumpists say about anyone who doesn't support Trump. It's a very cynical, calculated rationalisation.
The rumors are something big is about to go down.
The gay bar near the Pentagon is empty while the Papa John's is extra busy.
Can anyone check the Churches Chicken? That would give us a clue as to what CIA is up to. The gay bar also tells us about the FBI.
Pizzagate II: Electric Bugger You
Brought to you by the extremely reputable Internet commenter "White Pride." Why would anyone doubt a guy who posts for 8 hours every weekday about their extremist, fringe political positions?
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Imagine being a student of this blowhard.
Nightmare. He thinks he knows better than everyone on everything.
No need to imagine the good fortune of UCLA students starting next semester . . .
There used to be a clear measure represented by the Left/Right paradigm – pretty common at the two universities where I majored in PoliSci. Granted, meanings can drift and original frameworks lost, but I think the spectrum discussed here is the “Ideological Spectrum”, not the Political Spectrum.
From the various courses, back during the Cold War, the L/R Political Spectrum paradigm was derived from the old “State of Nature” arguments of Hobbs, Locke & Rousseau and was a measure of who had the power in a society. Fascism – historically a popular system – holds the power in very few, and is considered to be in the extreme Right. On the other side, power is, per Marx, held equally (if optimistically) by all. Most current Western systems are actually pretty central on the spectrum – at least some decisions are presented to the governed.
"Fascism – historically a popular system – holds the power in very few, and is considered to be in the extreme Right. On the other side, power is, per Marx, held equally (if optimistically) by all. "
That's not a description of reality at any time whatsoever. That's just a left-wing PR campaign. The reality of the matter is that, historically, you'd be hard pressed to find a government claiming to be following Marx that wasn't totalitarian. And fascism is primarily associated with the right because it lost WWII, and so is officially 'bad', so the left pushes really hard the idea that the National Socialist Party was right-wing.
No, fascism is primarily associated with the right because it's an extreme manifestation of elements which people on the right tend to go along with.
Can you think of any fascist country which tolerated socialists internally?
'And fascism is primarily associated with the right because it lost WWII, and so is officially ‘bad’,'
When the Republicans get compared to Idiocracy, this is what they mean. The economic, social, political and historic development of fascism is nothing. Everything is now PR. Good PR is Truth. Bad PR is leftist.
Wait, you majored in poliscivand don't know the definition and characteristics of fascism, let alone the original philosophy? You were scammed, you're hopelessly stupid or you're just engaging in leftwing propaganda and so are evil.
The difference is in the role and purpose of government and, by extension, the party. The left believes that government, and the party, exist to serve as the provider of goods and services and is the source of Rights. The right believes that government exists to protect the rights of the individual from other people and other nations. Rights are natural rights. Goods and services are provided by free people who choose how they participate in the marketplace. The left consumes wealth, the right creates wealth.
The rest of it is smoke and mirrors.
Everyone, even Amos, had managed to avoid the stupid ‘my side good other side bad.’
Until you.
The "left redistributes wealth, the right concentrates it" would be the non-judgmental way to say this.
No, that would he epitome of judgemental, not to mention wrong. The Left destroys wealth and lives the Right creates wealth and uplifts lives, just as non-judgmental and has many more examples in reality.
"The right believes that government exists to protect the rights of the individual from other people and other nations. Rights are natural rights."
Yes. As John Locke put it: "[Man] seeks out and is willing to join in society with others who are already united, or have a mind to unite for the mutual preservation of their lives, liberties and estates." Or, as Thomas Jefferson put it: "All men...are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights, governments are instituted among men."
What’s your evidence that that has anything whatsoever to do with contemporary American right politics? It’s a view whose adherents have practically been banished from the Republican party.
Trump has repeatedly made clear that so far as he’s concerned, L’Etat, c’est moi. And he has repeatedly failed to show any interest whatsoever in having the executive arm of government protect his political enemies from him. Indeed, quite the contrary.
Are you really seriously saying that a government limited in the sense that it’s not simply the personal tool of a boss, where a “deep state” consisting of people loyal to the state and not the boss restrains the boss from doing whatever he damn well wants to whomever he damn well wants, is less important to you, less fundamental, than a government that’s limited in the sense that you and other friends of the boss get to do things like own and carry guns and other things you like to do?
Nazis get labeled right-wing because they were nationalists, but they were really left-wing socialists. It was National Socialism.
And North Korea is Democratic.
They really were socialists, though; They just differed from the communists in that they thought it was better to leave the pre-existing owners of the means of production in place, so long as they followed orders, because they actually knew how things worked. While the 'communists' thought it was important that the state actually CLAIM ownership, not just exercise it.
This is an economic model that worked well enough for authoritarian/totalitarian government that it is all but universal on the left now: You let there be nominal private owners, and 'just' regulate them to the point where the state is actually in control.
See Obamacare as an example of that in the US: The health insurance companies remained nominally part of the private sector, but had exactly what they sold and to who at what price dictated to them in detail, and an effort was made to force the population to buy the product whether or not they wanted it, too.
In all but name, they were on their way to becoming extensions of the government. That push has stalled for now, but it's hardly been abandoned.
Socialism is de jure central planing, fascism is de facto central planning.
Well said, that's exactly it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
‘They really were socialists, though;’
No. They absolutely and categorically were not. Did they believe in workers’ rights? Nope. Did they support Unions and strikes? Did they fuck. Were they on the sides of owners and industrialists and break up strikes with violence? Yes they did. Did they engage in one of the largest sell-offs of public goods in all of history? Yes they did.
‘They just differed from the communists in that they thought it was better to leave the pre-existing owners of the means of production in place,’
That is a difference so massive, fundamental and profound that it indicates you know less than fuck-all about either fascism or Marxism. Even the most cursory understadning of either should be suifficent.
‘In all but name, they were on their way to becoming extensions of the government’
Or to put it another way, the government became, or rather remained, an extension of them, since the very fact that people *have* to BUY access to public health care is entirely and extremely right-wing.
Wait, you actually think the communists believed in any of that, instead of it just being a tactic until they got power? You have any idea what the communists did if anybody dared to STRIKE?
In power, they were no different from the Nazis, right down to running death camps.
In pre-war Germany, that is exactly what they believed and exactly what they did. The fact that you can have a right-wing dictatorship and a left-wing dictatorship is something your mind cannot cope with, isn't it? If you believe strongly enough the blatantly authoritarian and anti-democratic strongman cult-of-personality leader you're voting for won't turn out to be dictatorial. And if it does, you'll pretend it isn't happening, or that it has to happen, to save us from woke.
As for Russia, imagine trying to stage a strike as a serf.
In pre war Germany THEY WEREN'T IN POWER. So they were perfectly free to lie about what they'd do in power.
Once in power they were every bit as bad for workers' rights as the NAZIs, right down to forced labor camps.
Since we know this, why pretend to believe the lies?
In pre-war Germany, they organised unions and went on strike while the Nazis supressed them and supported the private owners – if we’re going by what they actually said and did instead of whatever the fuck you make up. The German left never got in power, so you’re talking utter nonsense.
As for Russia, which you keep trying to conflate with Germany - revolution betrayed by leadership is hardly an original occurrence. Hitler's regime was a right-wing totalitarian state. Mussolini's regime was a right-wing totalitarian state. Franco's regime was a right-wing totalitarian state. (You can't say that any of them were revolutions betrayed because they did exactly what they set out to do.) Russia was a left-wing totalitarian state. That they were all totalitarian states does not erase the huge ideological differences that underlay them, no matter how much comfort you draw from the illusion.
Right, the communists did what they could to hobble whoever was in power, when THEY weren't in power. Any time THEY were in power, they killed anybody who gave them trouble. EVERYWHERE they ended up in power, no exceptions.
Seriously, why would you even try to pretend otherwise? The communists are historical monsters right up there with the NAZIs. If anything they were worse, because they had more staying power than the NAZIs, which allowed them to rack up bigger death tolls.
'Any time THEY were in power, they killed anybody who gave them trouble.'
When were German socialists in power again?
'Seriously, why would you even try to pretend otherwise?'
Because you're inventing and imagining and conflating shit all over the place.
'The communists are historical monsters right up there with the NAZIs.'
Yes. Left-wing historical monsters. The Nazis were right-wing historical monsters. To bring it back on track.
Left = collectivist/central planning/rights are granted/redistribution of wealth
Right = individualist/free market/rights are inherent/concentration of wealth
Uniparty = monopolistic/rent-seeking/non-ideological
UniParty = Washington DC
To me, FISA reauthorization showed me the UniParty effectively gutted 4A.
I'm kind of amazed that you could write this OP without any reference to Sowell's "A Conflict of Visions", that had a lot to say about the matter.
OK, maybe not so amazed, because Sowell is of the 'right', and at this point it's pretty clear you're on the 'left'. If there was any doubt about it, this essay blew it away.
The attempts to gatekeep Prof. Somin into being a liberal remain ridiculous.
As does your attempt to argue that anyone into Trump is small government or pro freedom.
Authoritarianism can arise in the right or the left. Plenty of dictators have yelled about freedom and family values and God and nationalism, just like plenty yell about equality and internationalism and secularism.
I'm not gate keeping anybody. Somin can be who he is, but the fact remains that who he is, is a "liberalitarian", not a libertarian. This is a form of libertarianism that tends to adopt left-wing takes on all sorts of issues, and de-emphasize points of disagreement between libertarianism and leftism, while playing up points of disagreement with the right.
There is also good reason to distrust simple labels. It is a standard ploy of the narrative boys to relabel themselves when their past actions become toxic and they need to distance themselves from their prior dishonesty. It is not an accident that many of the categories that they label themselves with evolve into things that in the general usage are slurs. "Woke" and "Social Justice Warrior" are things that they called themselves before their character made them a laughing stock.
This is just another label grab. Somin is as libertarian as others claiming the title such as Kirkland and Nieporent. Heck, Noam Chomsky identifies as libertarian and by this metric probably Pol Pot would as well. I think this is all the rage in the modern era. They are exactly as libertarian as the bearded drag queen is female.
How libertarian, in your judgment, is the Volokh Conspiracy -- which claims to be "often libertarian" every day (without mentioning -- believe it or not -- conservative, right-wing, Republican, wingnut, or clinger)?
1. This is you, gatekeeping: "who he is, is a “liberalitarian”, not a libertarian."
That's textbook, Brett.
2. You said Somin isn't just not libertarian, but "on the left." You have backpedaled.
Brett is 100% correct. As Thomas Sowell put it, it all boils down to whether you believe people are born inherently good or selfish.
Caplan was so close to the truth. Probably the most accurate thing to say with the fewest anomalies is that the right is anti-left and the left is anti-right.
Your theory only works in practice. (lol)
Good one
.
Umm, wouldn't it be more "simple" (and more correct, IMO) to say:
1. The left is anti-freedom (personal, economic, etc., etc.).
2. The right is pro-freedom (personal, economic, etc., etc.). As Grover Norquist put it: "Leave us alone!"
Brett Bellmore said upthread: “The first deal breaker on the left was gun control. I don’t trust a political movement that wants me defenseless.”
Why do they want you defenseless? So that they can more easily control you, in order to impose their preferred vision of ideal society on you. Which is the same reason they oppose freedom of speech / like government censorship. “We know what’s good for you, and we’ll impose our vision on you, regardless of what you want, and we won’t even let you object, let alone resist."
Why do they want you defenseless? So that they can more easily control you, in order to impose their preferred vision of ideal society on you.
Sure, that must be it. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with being appalled that the hugely higher number of guns in private hands in the U.S. is likely to be connected to the much higher rates of homicide and suicide here.
You're right, it couldn't possibly do that, because there are too many other things they'd do first/instead of, going after guns in the hands of innocent people.
They go after the guns, because they want the guns. Homicide and suicide are just an excuse, or they'd be doing things where they got the cooperation of gun owners, instead of bitter opposition.
Thank you for providing an example of the point I was making with the sarcasm.
Hence the right's promotion of pro-choice legislation, SSM, drug legalisation, etc. And famously, prosecutors and police unions dislike the right because they're too willing to provide constitutional protections for citizens.
'As Grover Norquist put it: “Leave us alone!”'
Ah, laissez faire government. Gave us the potato famine, chattel slavery and Jim Crow.
Right, you actually think those were examples of laissez faire government? No, you're not that stupid, you're just cool with lying about it.
Absolutely they were. 'Hands off' the potato famine. 'Hands off' slavery. 'Hands off' Jim Crow. Or maybe that's just states' rights?
.
Say, wasn't Benito Mussolini a Socialist before he declared himself a "Fascist"? As were the Nazis ("National Socialists")! What an odd coincidence! Could it be that neither of these movements was really a "right-wing movement"? Hmmm...
They just aren't left-wing enough for Somin's taste so of course they must be right-wing from his vantage point, kind of tells you what neighborhood his politics lie and who his ideological neighbors are.
It's a bit like Donald Trump going from Democrat to Republican. You want to call Donald Trump a leftist, a socialist commie Democrat?
I generally assume that Trump was calling himself a Democrat because he was building stuff in New York, and he wanted his permits to be issued, not be denied. As would absolutely have happened if he hadn't been thought to be a Democrat.
So, a label of convenience, eh? Like the 'socialism' in National Socialism.
Interesting to have attempted to define "left" and "right" without mentioning Democrat or Republican. Left and right are not philosophies, they are the diversity of interest groups that pick sides and place themselves within our two party system for the purpose of getting to the levers of governmental power.
I used to view them as roughly comporting with some political philosophies, but have seen over time that no position is sacred to partisans, other than a desire to prevail over the other party.
The left are the people who vote Democrat, and the right, Republican. It's hard to see there being more philosophical substance than that.
The stupidest of all comments are the ones claming there are no philosophical or ideological differences between Democrats and Republicans, simply because those philosophies and ideologies have changed over time, sometimes even polar shifts, and because the realities of politics lead to compromise, failures, disappointments and even betrayals. It’s like these people simply can’t handle how messy reality is.
Now this is something I can almost agree 100% with you. There certainly are differences between the parties, AND the parties do change over time.
Reagan said famously: "I did not leave the Democrat party, it left me." Reagan was a Dem who continued to believe in FDR's vision of a safety net and the importance of government service, but he rejected the cradle to grave aspect of the Great Society. For him, the Great Society and unionization of government workers were steps too far. So was he an "Ultra Right Winger" as the far left often portrays, or a Right Wing warrior as his fans think of him? I suppose it depends on where one stands along the divide.
The right is all about me. The left is about us
Upthread, someone said: "The right believes that government exists to protect the rights of the individual from other people and other nations.”
I replied: "Yes. As John Locke put it: '[Man] seeks out and is willing to join in society with others who are already united, or have a mind to unite for the mutual preservation of their lives, liberties and estates.'"
I suppose you could say that the Left represents the interests of those who would infringe on others' lives, liberties, and estates. Nice people...
"The right is all about me. The left is about us."
That's a nice way of saying that the right is all about me, and the left is all about _you_ (in addition to me).
There's a lot of "you and him" in the left's "us", in practice.
Yep.
It’s worth pointing out that Kaiser Wilhelm II made a deal with the Social Democrats that resulted in the first national social security system, unemployment insurance system, and other government benefits. Bismarck resigned in part to protest these innovations. But the Kaiser found a certain amount of state paternalism completely consistent with traditional authority, the preservation of traditional morals, religion, and culture, and other right-wing priorities.
The right-wing belief in social darwinism was mitigated by its occasional paternalism. Plus the simple practicality that as industrialisation increased it required an educated workforce. Social security made it less likely that a starving underclass would stage a revolution. If you publicly funded the hospitals, you reduced the likelihood of disease spreading all over the place. And public works like sewage systems and bridges ALL benefitted the mercantile classes in various ways. The modern right is such a mutant.
Testosterone levels, for one thing.
Good looks.
Good looks.
There's research supporting the idea that better-looking people think the world is more fair than the less good-looking do, for obvious reasons.
Well, the bad looking are obviously going to think that, because there’s also research supporting the idea that better looking people tend to be smarter and healthier, too. (Seems that bad genes, and prenatal and childhood health problems tend to make you stupid, ugly, and sickly.)
Well, sure, that’s unfair: Reality isn’t trying to be fair, now, is it? So the ugly are right!
Disclaimer: While I did luck out on a high IQ, I represent the exception, being a bit on the ugly side, and having a number of minor birth defects.
Since beauty standards have shifted a lot over time, and beauty standards for 'real people' are not those of media stars and celebrities, I'm not sure how that would work.
Some parts of beauty standards do shift around a bit. Other parts don't.
For instance, at one time pale skin was considered good looking, because it was a mark of social status: You were wealthy enough to not need to work in the fields and end up tanned.
Then most work moved indoors, and a tan became good looking, because it indicated that you had enough free time to enjoy outdoor sports.
A similar dynamic has occurred with body weight and muscle tone.
But other elements of beauty are more biologically determined, such as facial symmetry and unmarred skin. These are more universal.
Personal beauty, in the end, is your hind brain saying, "That looks like a good potential mate!", not really much more.
Yes, while the bitter, ugly coalition harbors resentment.
Let's not forget that what the left wing promotes in the short term is very often merely a means to an end. Once they have ushered in their glorious, overarching, "cradle to grave" government, a woman's right to chose will go out the window along with most every other individual freedom they currently claim to support. They will replace their "defund the police" rhetoric with an actual police state.
Right thinking libertarians understand that by restraining ourselves we remove any pretense that we need to be restrained by government for the benefit of all. That is why religion and self control are important. That is why self reliance is important. The government that governs least is best, and deserves our support. Anarchy is foolishness and Marxism is a crime against human nature, but we can make a livable middle ground.
I am not confidant that libertarianism will ever be accepted globally as there are far too many people who want to control others. That said, it makes good sense to support our constitution and our nation, so we have the best chance to live in something approaching the libertarian ideal. Which is why I find the bashing of nationalism in the USA idiotic.
‘That is why religion and self control are important.’
Trump voters.
Also, historically, people who proclaim 'religion and self control' have never been exactly promoters of individual freedoms.
Historically?
Some examples for my position: Madison, Jefferson, Adams, and most of the founders.
Counterexamples: Marx, Lenin, and most of the commies.
Why do totalitarians hate religion? For same reason they hate any other competition for the hearts and minds of the people.
Totalitarians hate religion except for all the religious totalitarians. I think you might be telling on yourself.
Some examples please. Those totalitarians who do not oppose religion in general, oppose religious freedom. They might use a specific religion to aid in centralizing power, but they are no friends of religion in general. What the fascists and commies have in common (everything for the state) far outweighs the methods they use to impose total control.
The Catholic Church for most of its existence. The Puritans. Those extreme Muslim guys.
The actual divide is that the right believes in a natural hierarchy where those at the top have both the power and responsibility to enforce order on society.
The left believes that a strong hierarchy leads to oppression and that justice and equality are societies main objectives.
No one really cares about economics in itself, economics is just a method to achieve these objectives.
The right is usually pro-free-market because it believes that it puts the natural elite in charge. But as seen with the attacks on Disney and traditional social media platforms that discretion goes away the moment the business isn't seen as enforcing the right kind of ideology.
This is fairly close to my own thinking and observations. To the extent that a single axis is used, I agree that "left" focuses on equality and ideas of justice (especially the more modern term, "social justice"). The right then focuses on maintaining order and the traditional social order in particular.
But that can only capture part of what makes for a full political ideology or movement. I think that any political categorization that looks at aspects of political sortition in one dimensional terms would need more than one axis, certainly. Even two would be insufficient. I would think that it would end up being like String Theory and there would be several different axes, with some more important than others. This would be like how the vibrating strings of String Theory have the 3 spatial dimensions we observe, 1 for time, and 6 or 7 others that are just curled up so tightly that we don't observe them on the macroscopic scale.
There could be one axis (already mentioned) for social order vs. social justice, one for economic equality vs. economic freedom, one for the role of religion, one for isolation vs. foreign alliances, etc.
A better way to view it, in my opinion, is to label clusters of ideas. Some clusters will share features with others, so you could make Venn diagrams to compare any two with each other. To the extent that clusters of 3 or more that share significant ideas with each other, they could then be placed in opposition to clusters that have opposing views to those ideas that the first group shared. But then, some of those in the first group might have substantial areas of disagreement that would make any coalition between them unstable.
Political parties can either be a single cluster or a small group of clusters that share enough in common to form a coalition that could govern in a representative democracy. In a government structure like the U.S., made up of single-member, geographic legislative districts mostly chosen in first-past-the-post elections, a two party system is the quasi-equilibrium state of the electorate. Having that binary sorting of the electorate makes a single axis seem like a decent model of the body politic again, even though it isn't accurate. But there, it isn't a left/right axis in any traditional sense. It just a Democrat/Republican axis where two voters in the same position can be there for quite different reasons.
I used to ascribe more to the axis idea, and I think it's useful for representing specific parties or movements, but I think the order vs equality axis is the critical one.
Secondary factors like isolation vs intervention, free market vs intervention, aren't core beliefs as much as how you express those core values in specific circumstances.
Consider the GOP, it was highly interventionist and pro-free market. But I think that was just an after effect of the cold war where the international big threat came from the extreme left.
The the Cold War ended, the new Russian threat came from the far right, and big businesses became dominated by progressive tech companies.
I think Trump's takeover of the GOP is the proof of this.
He sensed the tension between the core axis and the current expression. And so he offered a version of right wing order based on isolationism and having the government get involved in policing the ideology of big corporations and everyone jumped on board.
If interventionism and free-markets were really a core belief Trump wouldn't have taken over.
Similarly, the modern Democratic party is much more willing to stand up to the evil empire now that the evil empire is authoritarian right instead of left.
The difference is that the left thinks Matt Yglesias has useful things to say, the Right knows he dos not.
All else is commentary,
The right is driven by fear.
The left is driven by hope.
Such is the perfect oneness of true nature.
While both Caplan and Yglesias's arguments are lacking, your response says more about how you classify left and right than anything else. For example:
"Yet, throughout history, there have been many right-wing movements that are highly anti-market themselves. Consider, for example, the Nazis, fascists, and a variety of other nationalist movements, up to and including today's "national conservatives" in the US."
What makes fascists or Nazis right-wing? They didn't consider themselves right-wing (they claimed to be a 'third way' alternative to socialism and capitalism). What features do they have that make anyone think these are right wing political theories? As far as I can tell, socialists didn't want to be tarred with associations with them, so they insisted they were totally different. But both in practice, and even in theory, communism and fascism are far more alike than they are different. Their biggest difference is that fascism aspires to national solidarity, while communism aspires to international solidarity, and that's not enough to divide a political spectrum by, much less pretend their on opposite poles of one.
While any real diagram of political ideology is very much not a line, no matter how many axes you choose, fascism and communism are ideological neighbors.
==================
I think part of the problem here isn't just the modern diversity of the 'right', but also the modern diversity of the left. Let's take a Linnean sort of approach to this: what's the type specimen of the 'left'?
Well, the use of left and right to describe politics originates in the French revolution with their National Assembly. The socialists clustered on the left, the classic liberals in the center, and the royalists on the right. The political "left" was defined by the socialists. It was this end of the spectrum that was most portable to other political contexts, so the right was reflexively defined as being away from the left (that is, away from socialism).
Ergo, the left is socialism, plain and simple, in all its myriad forms. If you aren't a socialist, you aren't on the left. And socialism, by-and-large, is virtually defined by its opposition to markets. So Caplan is basically right, at least on this point.
The problem is, when you pretend politics map onto a line, you try to put a bunch of things that very much do not form a line onto a line. At which point, its not surprising Caplan concludes that the right is 'everything that hates socialism', because the line ends up being how far away from socialism groups are, or at least claim to be. (Or, in fascism's case, the desire to place it on the far right is socialists trying to place fascism as far from socialism as they can).
Fascism isn't the only thing that's improperly placed on the typical understanding of a left-right spectrum. Lots of groups that share a lot in common with socialism are "on the right", mostly because groups that share a lot of similarities *hate each other more because of their differences* than groups which are far from them ideologically.
And this problem recapitulates itself in the self-identification of the left. Radical non-socialist groups who hate groups on the right self-identify as left, because they hate the other side more. And the more radical they are, the farther left they think they are.
The reduction of politics to a single axis is the ultimate problem here - it flattens out the diversity of ideology.
I always found it helpful to divide ideology up along multiple axes, using their beliefs as taxonomic characters. A fairly good (although by no means perfect) way to do this is to look at three axes of liberty: economic, political, and sexual. On such axes, it's pretty obvious that communism and fascism are near neighbors, and quite distant from classic liberalism. (Both are sexually conservative, politically repressive, and economically repressive - differing mostly by *how* economically repressive they are). And we can refer to practical implementations, like comparing Stalinism to Peronism, rather than try to treat all Communism and all Fascism as unitary entities.
But it's not perfect. I think hierarchy/government power is a useful axis, although I think Yglesias gets it very wrong. But Ansoc and Ancap, in any "practical" implementation, are not going to be very different from each other (because there's no government to enforce compliance with anyone's philosophical theories). And no matter how different you think Communism is from Fascism, their practical implementations haven't been too far from each other, either. It's not the only axis that matters, but looking at it as a major structuring feature to divide up political philosophies is probably not wrong.
But both in practice, and even in theory, communism and fascism are far more alike than they are different.
But the ways in which they’re different are what align them as left or right.
You could read a political philosophy book that would explain it to you. Instead I’ll show you how left : hope, right : fear does it.
Communism is a fundamentally hopeful philosophy in which mankind can solve all of its problems by working together in one big happy technocratic beaurocracy.
Fascism is a fundamentally fearful philosophy in which mankind is hopelessly fractured into factions, “we” are the best one, and to survive we must be forever vigilant against the influences of the others.
Communism is just world fascism. Anyone or group who does not subscribe to communist principles is the other who must be destroyed or conquered.
There's a big, important difference between "anyone who doesn't subscribe to communist principles" and "anyone who isn't part of my identity group." Anyone, in theory, could subscribe to communist principles. Not everybody can be Aryan.
...or Chinese, or Russian. Funny how those differences in theory do not hold up in practice.
.
Funny how those differences in theory do not hold up in practice.
Communism doesn’t work in practice, duh. It’s evil on accident.
Fascism does work in practice. It’s evil on purpose.
Another big difference between the two.
You don't end up evil 100% of the time on accident. So enough of those excuses.
Even the first communist revolutionaries, who founded the USSR, didn't overthrow the Tzars, they overthrew the liberal democratic regime that had overthown the Tzars. So they knew damned well what they were doing, too, that they weren't liberals.
That was a 102 years ago this year, and the news of what they did in power got out pretty fast, even if Duranty got a Pulitzer for lying about it. So it's been most of a century since anybody who tried to implement communism didn't know what they were signing up for.
You're talking about the politicians themselves. Of course they're corrupt lying bastards. Power corrupts. There's no left-right valence to that maxim.
I'm talking about the people. People support communism because it's a hopeful ideology.
People support fascists because they're afraid. They actually expect fascist leaders to be corrupt. Corruptness implies strength in the fear-based viewpoint of the right.
So you're saying we should divide political philosophies on the basis of whether they're hopeful or fearful? (Granting, at least for the moment, that you're properly characterizing Communism and Fascism).
If the left is hopeful, doesn't that make classic liberals/libertarians/free marketers the most 'far' of far leftists? (What could be more hopeful, say, than Smith's invisible hand?) If Communism is 'hopeful', does it really make any sense to put Communism right next to the pro-Capitalist philosophies it opposes?
Classifying left-right, or any political philosophy, on the basis of hope/fear seems ... really misguided. It misses just about everything about them, including the things they think are most important.
=============
As far as your characterization goes:
Isn't Communism fundamentally fearful - that some guys will horde all the wealth and 'exploit' the workers, so they have to unite to overthrow them? (If you take the 'Marx is just outlining how history will go and not espousing a value preference' route, then Marx was just wrong - the workers never united and overthrew the capitalists. The only places communism has ever been tried were agrarian backwaters, with revolutions driven by elites).
Can you give a single example of socialism in practice being hopeful and not driven by fear?
Meanwhile, I feel like your classification of Fascism is driven by Fascism in practice, not Fascism in theory. I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment, as I haven't read, for example, Mussonlini's writings. But comparing Fascism in practice to some sort of idealized Communism in theory doesn't feel like a fair comparison.
Were the Socialists in the National Assembly during the French Revolution, the type "species" of the left, really hopeful?
The vast majority of leftists these days are capitalists. It's only Fox News that's lying to you otherwise.
But it's not capitalism for its own sake. Its not
and God so decreed capitalism by sacrificing his only son Jesus Price
as so much of the right has decided to believe (quite contrary to Jesus's teachings FYI). The case for capitalism is well established at this point. The left is trying to solve problems, not enforce ideologies. Capitalism solves a lot of problems better than any other system that's been tried, clearly.Were the Socialists in the National Assembly during the French Revolution, the type “species” of the left, really hopeful?
Hell yes! They wanted something new. Wanting something new is always hopeful. Wanting to preserve something familiar is always fearful.
All revolutions are leftist. Whenever a something is described as conquering an enemy or overthrowing an oppressor, it's rightist. Find a counter-example I dare you.
What makes fascists or Nazis right-wing? They didn’t consider themselves right-wing (they claimed to be a ‘third way’ alternative to socialism and capitalism). What features do they have that make anyone think these are right wing political theories?
So you think those neo-Nazis who showed up at the "Unite the right" rally were just confused progressives?
The enemy of my enemy?
Did you read my entire post? Look at my analysis of nonsocialist radical "left"ists - same thing in reverse. (Also, they've been told Nazis were right wing by socialists since before they were born.)
Any real analysis of left and right has to start by defining actual philosophical features that are associated with left and right. And in the process, realizing that a lot of groups are currently mischaracterized. (Or just ejecting the left-right language entirely, because its near useless).
Yeah, you're claiming there's a lot of internal diversity (true), then you're cherry picking a few characteristics to move fascists over to the left.
Like communists are dictatorships, therefore dictatorship is left wing and fascists are left wing? Why don't you claim that communists were misclassified instead?
You're over complicating things. Extremism along any dimension leads to dictatorship and loss of freedom, both in personal life and in free enterprise (is DeSantis punishing Disney because he's really a commie??).
And you think that modern neo-Nazis are somehow being tricked into going from far left to far right?
Look who really supported the Nazis at the time. Big business, the military, aristocrats. All traditional right wing constituencies. Did they get confused by modern political theorists as well?
Why not the explanation I posited earlier.
The actual divide is that the right believes in a natural hierarchy where those at the top have both the power and responsibility to enforce order on society.
The left believes that a strong hierarchy leads to oppression and that justice and equality are societies main objectives.
I think that puts Communists squarely on the left, Fascists on the right, and generally puts everyone else where you'd expect. Scandinavia, obsessed with equality with high levels of economic freedom, is on the left.
Woh, hold on there. While I only claimed a few characteristics to render them neighbors ("Both are sexually conservative, politically repressive, and economically repressive"), that's hardly cherry-picking. Those are pretty broad and important characteristics of a political philosophy. (And I didn't claim any characteristics in the discussion of the left-right identity).
Why don't I put Communism on the right? Because socialism (of which Communism is a type) is the defining 'left' category, going back to the origins of left-right as a political spectrum.
In fact, I asked for specific 'characters' that differentiate fascists from communists on a left-right axis, and supported putting them on opposite ends. Either in practice or in theory. (But if you're going to use practice for fascists, you have to use practice for communists too). And let's do it with someone other than the Nazis, since the Nazis are hardly representative of most fascists. Compare Peronism to your pick of any implemented communism.
Who supported?/
I do not trust your characterization of who supported the Nazis. The actual Nazis didn't think they were right wing at all (as I discussed in my first post - fascists and adjacent groups saw themselves as a third way aside from Socialism and Capitalism). The actual "right wing" party in German politics at the time was the Center Party (Zentrumspartei, largely Catholic and conservative). The socialist party (SPD) commanded most of the vote (left or otherwise, ~60%) before WW1, but in the aftermath it lost ground to the communists (KPD) and national socialists (Nazis). Most of the Nazi support came from rural protestant populations - people who were mostly SPD voters before. And while (some) elites (across the political spectrum) thought they could use Hitler and the Nazis as a bulwark against the communists because they believed he spoke to working class concerns, their reach was primarily in the cities, where the Nazis performed poorly in elections. But those people didn't support the Nazis politically, they supported the Nazis siphoning of votes from the KPD.
Hierarchy/
Your explanation is nonsense. Most socialism requires a strong hierarchy. Communism definitively requires a strong hierarchy. It's not hierarchy or government that Marx attributes oppression to, it's the exploitation of surplus value from laborers by capitalists.
Most "leftists" in the US (progressives, socialists, etc...) want more government = more hierarchy, not less. An opposition to markets is a demand for more hierarchy. They think government power should be wielded to enforce equality, social justice, etc...
I'll note the Peronists were also in favor of equality and supported working class concerns. They nationalized industries.
=================
Making sense of politics.
I'd say there's two major threads that are salient for understanding actual political beliefs, and that they've mostly sorted to align with each other.
The first is group vs. individual focus. This split goes back to at least Plato and Aristotle. Group-focused ideologies think the good of the group is paramount, and individuals can be sacrificed for the group's betterment. Individual-focused ideologies reject any conception of a 'group' as an entity that is somehow separate from individuals.
Group-focused ideologies like Socialism don't recognize individuals as having any sort of moral worth that requires respect. It's all about group identity and advancement, whether that group is class, tribal, racial, sexual, or otherwise.
Whether we talk about Aristotelian non-domination, or Lockean (negative) rights, these are individual philosophies that deny groups the moral prerogative to ignore the individual's preferences. It doesn't matter how good a group is doing, it's the individual that is the proper level of analysis.
The second area is the conception of liberty. Negative rights (right to be free from interference by others) lines up perfectly with individualism (ie, natural rights, Locke, etc..). Positive rights got adopted by some of the group-based philosophies (although not all). Rousseau seems to be the originator of positive rights, and this idea gets taken up by Marx. (The idea that you can't be free if you're starving is Rousseauian in origin).
The demand for actual equality (as opposed to equality of opportunity) comes from a place of group-focused thinking, and frequently from a positive rights framework. It's not a primary characteristic of a philosophy, it's a tertiary characteristic about what values are espoused that's embedded in primary and secondary characteristics related to how the philosophy approaches thinking about politics and people.
Listen to this for a better overview. The original party probably had some socialist ideas, but when Hitler took over those were nothing but marketing to try and cash in on the popularity of socialism (that had just taken over Russia).
The differences between Communism and Fascism are huge, even when you leave out the basic economics. For one, Communists are obsessed with equality. The reason it's such a problematic system in practice, because the only way to enforce that equality is with huge top-down control, which creates its own inevitable corruption. Even though the USSR was effectively a Russian empire (with Russification) the Communists still kept it relatively multi-ethnic with leaders from various Republics. Nazis, and Fascists in general, were obsessed with racial purity.
Meanwhile, your definitions are full of your own biases:
"Group-focused ideologies like Socialism don’t recognize individuals as having any sort of moral worth that requires respect. It’s all about group identity and advancement, whether that group is class, tribal, racial, sexual, or otherwise."
How many people leave Conservative small towns because they "don't fit in"? You think that qualifies as respecting "moral worth"?
That there is the essence of the issue with your position. You're not developing some metric by which to sort politics, you're gerrymandering the political map so that any "bad" system like Fascism or Communism gets put on the left.
"Communists are obsessed with equality"
And yet the nomenklatura had the dachas, the special stores, the reserved traffic lanes, the special hospitals, ...
Yes, you did a very good job of reading that sentence, if only you had made it to the next one.
Why make it so complicated. For me the left is for marxism, socialism, communism, totalitarianism. Right is for freedom and liberty which I guess is anti-left. You really can't mix religion or atheism into it. Those exist in both realms.
Some movements were mischaracterized. i.e. Fascism and Nazism share the values of the left, definitely not the right.
Why make it so complicated. For me the left is for marxism, socialism, communism, totalitarianism.
What about absolute monarchy? Totalitarian theocracies, like Iran? Or that mix the two, like Saudi Arabia? Or just a straight up military dictatorship?
Totalitarianism isn't an ideology that has any left-right component. It just a statement that the government has total power over the country.
Some movements were mischaracterized. i.e. Fascism and Nazism share the values of the left, definitely not the right.
That is only going to work if you define"left" and "right" differently than anyone else. Sounds to me like you view yourself as being on the right and only want the other side that you hate to be associated with any version of authoritarianism.
You're obviously retarded if you think fascism shares the values of the left. Why do you think all the neo-fascists in this country are Trump voters?
And furthermore!
Right is for freedom and liberty...
for straight Christian men, preferably white. No one else. It's easy to forget that if you're a straight Christian white man.Nazi Germans enjoyed enormous freedom and liberty in that sense! You'd be free to shoot illegal immigrants on sight (brown ones only please). Now that's what I call liberty, am I right?
Indeed, Dems enjoyed enormous freedom as slave owners, until Repubs stopped them.
Dems now want to regulate our economic decisions, for the greater good of course.
The left-right dichotomy is a fraud because ultimately the differences between the so-called far left and the far right are miniscule, thus making the middle a total muddle. The definitive book on this is "Killing History: The False Left-Right Political Spectrum and the Battle between the ‘Free Left’ and the ‘Statist Left’" (2019) by L.K. Samuels.
Agreed. The left/right dichotomy is not useful and often gets in the way of intelligent discourse. But we need to be aware that the "isms" exist, and that not everyone has the same view of what good government should be.
A more useful model would have anarchy on one side and totalitarianism on the other. The aim of good government being to find the optimum level of government intervention for the current times that would produce the greatest individual freedom and prosperity in a stable society. The non-aggression principle is good place to start.
There will always be tension as some prefer greater social control, others prefer more government involvement in the market, etc. Since there is no single universally accepted view of the best society there will always be calls for more or less government control. But with each proposed innovation we should ask: How does this maximize individual freedom and prosperity in a stable society?
The difference between right and left is minuscule at zero government, because there's no difference between different ways of doing nothing. It's minuscule in the case of totalitarian government, because the requirements of running a totalitarian government drive all totalitarian states to operate in much the same manner.
The difference reaches it's maximum somewhere in between, because there are all sorts of ways to just have a moderate amount of government.
Then there's the wisdom of Charles Krauthammer, who, over 20 years ago wrote this:
"To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil."
I feel like that's swapped over the last 20 years, don't you?
Whichever party is currently the more populist is perceived as the stupid one, and the elitist one is seen as evil. 20+ years ago the Democrats were more populist (workers unions, civil rights) and the Republicans were elitist (corporate execs, finance, high society).
"I feel like that’s swapped over the last 20 years, don’t you?"
Actually, I have always thought that the Krauthammer observation was widely held, but that the opposite has always been "more true," when you dig deeper.
I don't think that has changed.
"“We have two parties here, and only two. One is the evil party, and the other is the stupid party. Occasionally, the two parties get together to do something that's both evil and stupid. That's called bipartisanship.”
― Everett Dirksen"
Conservative activists frequently refer to the Republican party as "the Stupid party", after this formulation.
Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz.
Adam Sciff vs Devn Nunes
Thats the difference between Democrats and Republicans
Choose your own examples
Rand Paul is a better Bernie Sanders than Ted Cruz.
".... Ronald Reagan was pro-choice as governor California in the late 1960s"
And explicitly repudiated that position later in his political career, even expressing guilt for signing the "therapeutic" abortion bill. Yes, even those on the right can change their minds.
I'm very late reading this blog, but I hope this tardy comment is not too late. My first thought on the "left"/"right" issue is to recommend work on prototype theory in cognitive science. The "left"/"right" matter seems to be a good example of the sort of classification ambiguities that cognitive science approaches with prototype theory in realms as diverse as "tree" or "bird" and "liberal" versus "conservative."