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Amicus Brief in United States v. Abbott Explains Why Texas is Wrong to Equate Illegal Migration and Drug Smuggling With "Invasion"
The state's position is at odds with the text and original meaning of the Constitution and would set a dangerous precedent if accepted by federal courts.

Today, the Cato Institute and I filed an amicus brief in United States v. Abbott, a case before the en banc US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Our brief explains why the state of Texas is wrong to equate illegal migration and cross-border drug smuggling with "invasion." Here is the summary of the brief, posted on the Cato website:
In this case, the United States contends that Texas illegally placed buoys in the Rio Grande River, in violation of the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899, which prohibits the "creation of any obstruction not affirmatively authorized by Congress, to the navigable capacity of any of the waters of the United States." In addition to disputing the Biden Administration's interpretation of the statute, Texas also contends it has the power to place the buoys there under the Invasion Clause of Article I of the Constitution, which provides, "[n]o State shall, without the Consent of Congress, … engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay." Texas claims illegal migration and cross‐border drug smuggling qualify as "invasion," thereby authorizing it to install the buoys even if doing so would otherwise be barred by a federal law.
In their amicus brief, the Cato Institute and Professor Ilya Somin take no position on the statutory issues, but urge the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit to reject Texas's dangerous Invasion Clause argument. It is at odds with the text and original meaning of the Invasion Clause and would have extraordinarily dangerous implications if accepted by federal courts.
Part I of the brief explains why Texas's interpretation of the Invasion Clause is manifestly wrong under the text and original meaning of the Clause. As James Madison emphasized in his Report of 1800, "Invasion is an operation of war." The term does not include illegal migration or drug smuggling.
Part II outlines the dire implications of Texas' arguments. State governments would have the power to wage war in response to undocumented migration and smuggling, even if such warfare were not authorized by Congress. This would be a major undermining of Congress' sole power to declare war and threatens to involve the United States in warfare at the behest of a single state government. The state's position would also effectively give the federal government the power to suspend the writ of habeas corpus at any time, since the Constitution gives the federal government the authority to do so "when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." Since some significant amounts of illegal migration and cross‐border smuggling occur at virtually all times, this would give the federal government the power to suspend the writ whenever it wants to. When the writ of habeas corpus is suspended, the government can arrest and detain people without trial, and without filing charges. That power would apply to American citizens and permanent residents, not just migrants who have recently crossed the border.
Finally, Part III outlines how three circuit court decisions have ruled that "invasion" does not include illegal migration and is limited to military attack. If the Fifth Circuit rules the other way, it would create a circuit split, a result disfavored by Fifth Circuit precedent.
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As usual, Somin sides with the anti-American invaders.
Yep. He's reliably for the enemy and against the America our founders established.
Send him back...
People wanting to abandon the Constitution in order to take shortcuts to their preferred policy of treating other people as “animals” and “snakes” is, actually, what is anti-American.
Economic migrants are actually quite pro-American, hence their desire to be here.
And their willingness to violate the law to enter, supported by commies like you and the Biden regime, makes them absolute heroes.
You have far more in common with communists than do I. The only one calling criminals heroes is your Dear Leader. Not coincidentally, he's also the one calling desperate humans animals.
You are oddly confused as to who is engaging in communist/totalitarian police state abuses (that would be the Biden regime) and those who are the regime’s victims (that would be the American people, especially any prominent political opponents)
Don't think requiring foreigners to pursue legal avenues of immigration is treating them as animals. And I wouldn't insult animals by comparing them to the sub-human invaders who murder and assault American citizens.
But you were fine riling up Cubans in 2000 by trying to make Elian Gonzalez a citizen even though his mother died while breaking America laws.
I’m fine with a policy that welcomes victims fleeing communist dictatorships.
There were laws covering Cubans escaping at the time.
And, what laws exactly did his mother break?
What a disgusting person you are. First you misrepresent the position of whoever it is you think you are arguing against. Second, you conflate at least a million people with a tiny subset of violent people among the million. Which you could do with any group of a million people. That you choose to do it in reference to the most powerless people on the planet is a testament to your lack of character. But it's consistent with the MAGA ethos, always punch down.
What a vile disgusting person you are by misrepresenting my position. I didn’t equate every illegal alien trespasser with the subhuman filth murdering American citizens. And opposing open borders does not mean one opposes legal immigration or equates all immigrants with animals, which is what the comment I responded to implied with the “animals and snakes” reference. And it should be noted that you’re not even clever or original with your insults, manufacturing some moral failing you equate with a MAGA ethos and applying it to anyone you disagree with, just a sad pathetic variation of Hillary’s deplorables insult.
What an interesting comment. The whole world is united in thinking that you're racist exploiters of third world brown illegal immigrants. That you systematically treat them differently from citizens when it comes to wages, labour laws, health and safety laws, etc. That, save for about 1/4 of your farming needs (fruit & veg picking) you hire the illegals instead of your working poor. Your middle class is shrinking, your poor are getting poorer, and this has long been your policy. Also, no one believes that if they were millions of poor whites that you'd treat them this way, or if they were Black you'd even let millions in.
There is NO civilised Western country that copies what you do, supports what you do, or condones what you do.
Take your sanctimonious bullshit and shove it right back up your arsehole. You are a fraud.
That's like saying bank robbers are pro-banking.
I think we should simply shoot them like the enemy soldiers they are.Happiness is a warm gun barrel....
As Arthur would say, these are your people, Eugene. You've groomed this audience of disaffected clingers who fantasize about killing the poor and powerless.
Is it grooming, or have they awoken to the fact that their rivals are totalitarian global imperialists?
It’s the latter, regardless of what you might think or say.
Don’t run away to our more civilised Western countries when the bloodbath commences. You are NOT welcome.
The actual invasion clause was part of the Constitution, the last time I looked.
And Somin wants to abandon (Or grossly misinterpret.) the Constitution in order to take shortcuts to his preferred policy of open borders.
I would wonder what Ilya's definition of an invasion is.
A mass of military-aged men storming the border qualifies as one for me.
I think he'd require them to be dressed in uniform, bearing rifles, and chanting in unison, "This is an invasion!"
I wonder if Russia marched into Ukraine without uniforms --- would it still be an invasion?
They actually did, as it happens. It's a standard war tactic for them.
I would wonder what Ilya’s definition of an invasion is.
Why are you even here? The OP summarizes what his definition is and links to the amicus brief where he lays it and the basis for it out in detail. Fucking idiot.
Somin…Is that you again...?
You the Rev, too?
Certainly more so than about the countries that they are leaving
Silly undeducated man ....Carter let rapists, murderers, pscyhos into Florida and there you were ...these are pro-American
Silly man
They seem pretty pro-American to me.
You had me at "habeas corpus." If it's an invasion then the feds could probably lock people up without trial. Too extreme, even with what I fully acknowledge to be a bad crisis of lawless immigration.
It IS an invasion and they should be considered POWs, if not shot outright on the battlefield.
Yes!! Please go to Calle Ocho right now and express your constitutionally protected opinions!!! Say it loud and say it proud!!!
Well, I do tend to think that if you place soldiers along the border, and the illegals start to push past them, a bit of shooting is appropriate at that point.
At that point it is absolutely clear that whether or not Somin thinks they're invading, once you're getting in fights with soldiers stationed to keep you from crossing a line, you ARE invading.
See the attached link - already happening
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/03/migrants-on-parade.php
Bellmore, let’s imagine you shooting the people you want shot. I just want to see how you think it would affect you, to be the guy pulling the trigger, firing into the crowd, and then policing up the corpses and the maimed victims of your gunfire. Would it make you proud and confident? After you blow half of someone's face away, and he begs you to kill him, how do you respond?
War is hell, but which is worse: Resisting when invaded, or surrendering without a fight?
We ARE being invaded. With the connivance of our own federal government, which has indeed decided to elect a new people.
That’s just the bigotry, autism, and alienation from modern America talking.
You vs modern America, I agree -- an old backwoods raccist with no education attacking normal people
It isn't bigotry.
It IS alienation, though. Your own government is alienating its own citizens. That's because it treats the whole population as fungible commodities---where they have a new preference for the uneducated and poor! So much for the pretenses of democracy, yeah?
The 'modern' America, as you prefer to style those of your ilk, is totalitarian and a demographic disaster. You've disgraced yourselves in the eyes of the whole world, including to us, your allies in the rest of the West. You will not recover from this.
It HAS to be an invasion, and a Replacement, otherwise this hysterical panic and outrage at other people not being hysterically panicked can't possibly be jusitified, oh who are we kidding you don't need any justification.
They’re not hysterically panicked because, in their ignorance, they simply expect things to be able to persist as before, just in a more inclusive and more equitable fashion. They simply fail to realise that, in not breeding and not replacing the non-breeders with educated professionals, they’re going to become poorer and won’t be able to sustain the system. They are also completely in the dark about the shift in global power now, and what that entails for their material standards of living.
At their CORES, to be a liberal (including red team liberals), and to be a so-called progressive, is to be nothing more than a spoiled brat who expects things as a matter of right without bothering to even try to understand how things work.
At least SOME of the hardcore socialists (typically not the so-called democratic socialists, let alone the social democrats) and the eco-terrorists understand that there would be a dramatic decrease in the standard of living if they succeed—not that they breed and shan’t be replaced either.
They should absolutely not be POWs. We can debate the exact definition of invasion, which is a murky word (though now that the border has been stormed by force that changes things) but there are specific rules of war defining lawful combatants who are properly POWs if taken captive, and the only people on the border who qualify work for our government.
The Feds have locked up people for long stretches of time with no trial because of an "insurrection" that is far less of an insurrection than this is an invasion.
When did that happen?
Been happening since 1/6. Long stretches of solitary with no charges filed.
But they do not matter, right?
They do not matter because they did not happen.
Can you identify even a single person who actually fits that description?
"If it’s an invasion then the feds could probably lock people up without trial."
If Congress decides to suspend the writ, (Remember, it's not automatic, it's a power of Congress.) I sincerely doubt the courts will dispute their claim that it's necessary.
I believe the immigration situation is a serious crisis, but then, so is the national debt, and I don’t see a constitutional basis for locking up spendthrift politicians without trial.
So I don’t consider myself stuck in some binary where I have to either deny there’s a crisis or advocate for suspending habeas corpus.
Under the habeas corpus clause, there needs be be an invasion or insurrection before we can even *think* of suspending the writ, and even in case of invasion or insurrection, suspension needs to be in the public interest.
If we get to the point of an invasion, I presume the courts will defer to Congress on the issue of necessity, but that's getting the cart before the horse because I'm not persuaded there *is* an invasion.
Ouch, a fallacious comparison...you can usually tell them by going the other way. So try to go from spendthrift politicians to border invasion. See !!! You posited a comparison that does not exist when you switch the comparands. Were you a lawyer from a good school. you'd have had logic.
I'm impossibly torn by which to believe: soothing academic words penned by a member of the Georgetown elite whilst a nice safe ~2000 miles away, or my lying eyes?
All military age men too.
Not an invasion though, just innocents in fear and needing asylum!
A group of people attempting to force their way across the border and then being arrested is not an invasion.
As Ilyas amicus brief points out, the term refers to an act of war. While, for rhetorical purposes, you may like using the colloquial meaning of invasion, but this still purports to be a legal blog having legal discussions. It isn't an invasion in any legal sense. Bob's "me too!" notwithstanding.
A small group, maybe no. Millions maybe yes.
But it isn't millions storming the border like that. Most sneak across or, more common, over stay visas. They aren't part of an organized group trying to take over America, each of them just wants the economic chances that are available to hardworking people here that aren't available where they happened to be born.
Don't think it only counts as an invasion when the entire invading population comes in one giant surge as opposed to multiple continuous surges, or dare I say it, caravans.
Facts destroy you. My Hispanic students were the MOST vocal about not letting them in.
maybe true if it was only 200 - 300
However its now over 1.5m to 2.5m per year
That is military invasion type numbers
No those are migratory-type numbers.
It's an act of war -- you don't have to be armed to be a combatant.
During WWII, we bombed German ball bearing plants.
Though we often disagree, I have to agree with you on this topic. Calling this migration an invasion is only rhetorical and not a legally accepted definition in any sense.
One might argue that at some level an influx of migrants is economically or socially destabilizing calling for some state action, but even that does more comport with "invasion" under US law.
Yup, don't know 'bout them there courts, but sure looks like an invasion to me (and now 82% of al other 'mer'cuns): https://twitter.com/JennieSTaer/status/1770886341879885952
Like Potter Stewart said about Porn, I know an Invasion when I see one.
Typo in the title. "Amicus Brief Explains in United States v. Abbott Explains Why"
Why have explains in the sentence twice?
As to invasion, I'm with Somin on normal illegal immigration not being an invasion, but when you have convoys of people numbering in the thousands I don't think his argument is as strong.
Invasion, as used in the Constitution, is an act of war. However much you like large groups of economic migrants coming to the United States, it isn't an act of war.
Malarkey. The UN, at Biden's invitation, is waging war on the US. If you are too blind to see, you should move to another country.
Yours are some of the dumber comments on these boards. I would be happy for us to be in different countries, but I think your ethos and politics fits better in Russia or North Korea or Iran. Please go for a visit, at least.
NO normal American would speak like such sophist. Ethos ?? Try that at a bar with real men. 🙂
The border onslaught fits the pattern of an invasion far more than the Jan 6 protest resembles an insurrection
It doesn't get more true each time you say it. But you repeating it does reveal your limited powers of reasoning.
Yeah, it gets worse. Thousands every week, or is that day? including vast numbers of military age males, trespassing over the border, a lot waving their own countries flags. Kind of invasiony I think.
It's so scary to talk about military age males! Saying it is "invasiony" is just another way to say it isn't, actually, an invasion.
Which part of the Constitution ?
Article 4 S4 just says 'protect each from ... against Invasion;'
each refers to 'State'
Does not refer to the type of invasion. Plain straight forward reading, just like those used against Trump and others. Plain and simply it is an Invasion, to say otherwise marks one a fool and an idiot.
Slyfield, "convoys," means defended by armed escorts capable to defeat military resistance. Has that happened on the southern border? If not, why choose that term?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy
Wikipedia is NOT the US Code
In the last three years the Biden Administration, in concert with the UN and countless NGOs, has fostered the invasion of our land by well over 10 million foreigners, resulting in human and drug trafficking, the control of border cities in the US by Mexican narco-terrorist cartels, massive disruption of public services across the land, and actual slavery in the United States. The US Chamber of Commerce thinks this is a good idea, because low income (mostly Hispanic and black) workers hold too many jobs that can be accomplished by cheaper imported labor. Idiot economists equate deficit federal spending with economic growth, despite the obvious fact that spending on these foreign invaders vastly exceeds whatever economic benefit may arise from lowered wages and their spending in the economy. And Ilya claims that, since these invaders aren't organized by a single foreign power and using superior force to cross our borders, we aren't being invaded. Well, he's either a moron or a pathological liar.
Lincoln Riley could not be reached for comment
Remember on Trump’s first day in office when he ordered SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a little American girl?? But she was a Muslim so who cares, right??
Right
It is absolutely spectacular that GOP admits its illegal drug war facilitates invasion of the US.
As Super Predators in the Racial Jungle, Harry Anslinger can remind Jim Crow generation that marijuana makes negros look at a white woman twice, while uniformed, armed state agents teach children their DARE classes: “We are not racist, we are tough on crime.”
That’s a conspiracy to violate rights resulting in the dictionary definition of genocide of American Citizens… right?
Can someone remind me how the 18A led to the 21A?
I guess only SCOTUS has the power to define the word genocide, right, FDR fans who had Anslinger on his payroll.
(Enjoy your socialist transfer of wealth: Slavery, black codes, Jim Crow, drug war… 13th.)
This nation is a human rights disgrace.
So move
That’s the answer of someone who is groomed as a child to be pro-authoritarian. #DARE classes taught by communists teach you to be a mook, too?
You don’t happen to be a 1932 German wondering how we got here, would you?
Do you ever wonder if the POTUS Hitler that Daniel Hale and Julian Assange told us about will ever be found guilty by SCOTUS for any thing?
At least be honest in the brief and let the court know that there's no restriction on immigration, statutory, constitutional or otherwise that you're willing to recognize and that whatever argument you're making is just twisted into the service of that goal.
When I taught I told students , words are not atoms, they change. What is an invastion today is not what was an invasion then but it still qualifies because NO ONE would think that it had to be the same people, wearing the same clothes, in a place that was then part of US, etc. To say that objective unaffected outsiders get to define a word that is almost pure connotation is so stupid that I am sure there is a different reason they won't accept what they know is true
And it’s not even like this isn’t a known military tactic, flooding a neighboring country with your own nationals as a prelude or alternative to military invasion. They can serve all sorts of military purposes; Creating ‘independence movements’. Sabotage. Taking up arms behind the lines when you send your uniformed soldiers.
Sometimes just taking over by sheer numbers.
But as long as they don’t put on uniforms and carry rifles, Somin will never admit its an invasion. Ten million people could hit our border tomorrow, and literally trample our military to death, and he wouldn’t admit it.
Like they used to say about Western protesters during the cold war: “You’re not anti-war, you’re just on the other side.” That's Somin. If we were invading and taking over Mexico? THEN he'd likely complain.
Do you think that’s what’s happening now?
No, he doesn't. He knows that's not what's happening. But if he only addresses what is happening, he would have to admit it isn't an invasion and that all the hysteria is....well, hysterical.
I really don't know if that's what is happening today. I do know that the illegal aliens are getting a LOT of governmental aid in reaching our border. And, frankly, given how hostile things are between the US and several nations, we'd be stupid to assume the current flood doesn't include foreign military getting pre-positioned to conduct sabotage in the event of actual hostilities.
But just flooding us with people we don't want is an act of war, if done by a state.
'I really don’t know if that’s what is happening today.'
You absolutely know it is not.
It isn't his dead child,not his state, not his business. Just one big mouth talking to others who have an opinion about everything.
Why are you so committed to gaslighting your fellow Americans?
Are you being paid to do so?
NOVA-Somin, what happens when the people find out how you're going to screw over their children in the name of this new inclusive, equitable, impoverished America?
I do. That's exactly what's happening. Lots of Chinese nationals crossing now, and whether we like it or not, war with China is looking more and more likely down the road,
Yeah, those are in fact things that are not known military tactics. (And here's where you talk about Russia-Crimea, and then I point out that in fact those were Russian soldiers, not civilians who were going to suddenly quit their jobs as landscapers and attack the U.S.)
You are right, much better comparisons would be Belarus weaponizing migrants into Europe, or Jews illegally expanding settlements into the West Bank.
I am confused why those things are considered human rights violations, but not migration across the southern US border. But without double standards sometimes we would have no standards at all...
'but not migration across the southern US border.'
Because the only people whose human rights tend to get violated at the southern border are the migrants.
Yes, by other migrants. Theft, assault, and sexual assault is rampant. Not to mention poor families going into debt to coyotes over a lie. But open borders advocates don't care about that.
Why would we discuss any of those issues with you? You're a bunch of insane fanatics who seem determined to create a pretext whose logical end point is the justification of massacres of migrants. You can't talk about real problems and real issues with people like that, you've no interest in them. You're cynical fantasists creating an authoritarian regime.
I'm not sure what you mean by "you". I have never justified massacres of migrants.
No, it is in fact a classic military tactic. See what China has been doing in Tibet, for instance.
You're so deperate to have a military-based pretext to justify blowing up a bunch of poor people.
Why are you so deeply committed to expediting the death of your superficial ideology through population replacement?
Not that your ideology deserves to survive, and not that it will anyway. I am just curious. Do you just, as a matter of hubris, think they’ll eventually all be swayed by pure reason? As a matter of religious, dogmatic faith?
Or do you not actually give a toss about your superficial ideology, because you only care about the social re-engineering part?
Okay, Brett.
Are your claiming that Mexico is planing to attack the US? Or Guatemala?
The people crossing are increasingly not from this hemisphere.
Then, tell us what country is at war with the US
We're on hostile terms with a fairly long list of countries. Russia. China. Iran. And a host of smaller countries that don't dare make overt moves against us.
Mr Biden has little to say about the leaders of the named countries except that there is a need for regime change. Certainly that is hostile. But hostile terms is not a state of war. Besides I don't read about Russians coming over the border illegally.
Hence, your comment about the migration at our Southern border representing a classic military tactic by these or your smaller, unnamed countries is simply bogus.
So which ones are invading? All of them? If you can't even say what country is invading then it's not an invasion. God you lot are thick.
The Mexican crime cartels are responsible for the invasion. They are at war with us. A war need not be conducted by the official government of a country to be a war. War can be declared against non-government actors. Our country's first declaration of war was against pirates, not a state.
In what way are the drug cartels responsible for the invasion? What reason do they have to attack the United States?
Those questions tell me that you are so poorly informed on this topic that it's useless to discuss it with you.
That response tells me that you've got nothing more than an empty talking point.
I have better things to do than spoon-feed basic facts about a public policy issue to an ignoramus.
Regardless of your view on the issue of is this invasion or immigration, one fact is certainly true. When any one person or any group of people decide to use force against law enforcement, the use of lawful deadly force by law enforcement becomes a possible outcome. If you're in Georgetown and not on the thin blue line that might not have much real consequence for you.
I mean, sure, but I think all but the sociopaths among us are happy that no one was killed but the people who pushed past the armed National Guardsmen were arrested. Isn't it great when you see people do the right thing in a tense situation?
Why were they arrested? That's so unfair. They just want the economic opportunities that all Americans have.
Because, despite the dishonesty of MAGA commenters around here, there aren't open borders and there's a difference between walking over the border and literally pushing past a border guard. The fact that you sarcastically pretend otherwise says everything about you and the quality of your engagement with people who disagree with you.
'Because, despite the dishonesty of MAGA commenters around here, there aren’t open borders...'
This is a great example why no one can trust America anymore.
Nope, millions upon millions haven't illegally crossed into America over the last few years. That's all just right-wing fake news. Nothing to see here!
Do you explain to your children why you're a bad person? Do you tell them that they should be pathological liars like you?
All ???
" The poll, released Saturday, found 78 percent of respondents saying the country is headed in the wrong direction."
Professor:
In what alternate universe is mass illegal immigration not synonymous with an invasion?
Perhaps you should read the brief, wherein he answers that very question in great detail. Short answer: this universe.
For the purpose of argument: let's agree it's not an invasion.
"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, . . engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."
So it isn't an invasion: there is imminent danger that will not admit of delay. The State of Texas is arguing for legal power to protect the property and lives of its citizens against trespass, vandalism, theft by persons who are breaking Federal law to enter through Texas.
"It's not an invasion!" is a red herring.
You are misinterpreting the clause. It's "unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger [of invasion] as will not admit of delay." Not in imminent danger of vandalism or theft. States cannot engage in war over vandalism.
It's unfair of you to use logic and basic rules of grammar to win this particular argument. Those tools appear to be largely unavailable to the MAGA apologists and cheerleaders around here.
What constitutes 'immanent danger'? It needn't just be torts or crimes against property. It can be the pressure to the healthcare system, the welfare system, the education system, etc.
(Let's also not pretend that your stipulation about what does or doesn't count as such matters for even one moment.)
Of course it's a red herring! You've got everyoe arguing whether the poorest people on the planet with only the clothes on their back crossing the border looking for badly-paid jobs where they'll be treated like shit is the same as a military invasion, when really the claim is just a new variation on the ongoing standard xenophobic demagoguery.
Exactly this. Thank you for saying it so plainly. This xenophobic, bloodthirsty bigots are tiresome.
It's like Trump's wall. They've taken what was supposed to be a metaphor and literalised it. They want to make it real through sheer brute stupidity, with no concern for the reality of execution and the potentially catastrophic consequences.
You should examine your poor unthinking way of exagerrating and misusing words.
EVERYONE ?
the Poorest ?
Standard xenophobic demaguery ?
Mass immigration of impoverished, uneducated people, in a welfare state, puts extreme pressure on that system and can crush it.
This, in addition to cultural replacement.
But of course YOU’RE not just a superficial ideologue political theorist, yeah? YOU have credible social scientific data to back up your claims about the system’s ability to absorb AND thrive. That these illegals ARE NOT net costs to the system, in a period of population decline and a shrinking middle and working classes…
Your labels of ‘xenophobia’ and ‘demagoguery’ are losing their potency, Nige: even the right can now see that you use them to engage in class warfare and for a totalitarian ulterior social agenda. (They can also see how you legitimise the systematic exploitation of these illegals.)
You’re a fraud, Ingsoc. Your time is over. Best get back to Blighty with your tail between your legs.
Do you remember the exact point when you, in your low quality academic career or earlier, you decided to abandon honesty, the pursuit of truth, and knowledge production and to instead dedicate yourself to cheap propaganda and incessant lying?
Please stop with the hypocrisy.
If you can water down meaning of "insurrection" from the original context of the US Civil War, the bloodiest war in our history, to now describing the Jan 6 riot, then the meaning of "invasion" can be watered down to include uncontrolled immigration across the southern border.
Yep. One problem: you're dealing with people who are entirely indifferent to being systematically dishonest or being hypocrites. They're interested only in securing the desired outcomes at all costs, nothing else.
"Invasion is an operation of war."
Reading this in context, it does not appear to me that Madison is asserting that mass illegal crossing of a border, facilitated by a foreign country, isn't an "invasion" absent a (declared?) war. Here is the whole paragraph:
"Invasion is an operation of war. To protect against invasion is an exercise of the power of war. A power therefore not incident to war, cannot be incident to a particular modification of war. And as the removal of alien friends has appeared to be no incident to a general state of war, it cannot be incident to a partial state, or a particular modification of war."
Notice that: "Alien friends." The passage has to do with the Alien and Sedition act, which authorized the expulsion from the country of aliens who had been invited into the country. Essentially what we would today refer to as green card holders. Legal emigrees in the process of naturalization!
He's not asserting that a huge crowd of aliens entering the country against opposition, illegally, wouldn't be an "invasion". He's asserting only that the people being acted against had done nothing of the sort, that we'd invited them to this country!
If anything, you could read him as saying that invasions make wars, not that wars make invasions. And, indeed, if Mexico is in any way responsible for what's going on at the border now, (Spoiler: They are.) it would qualify as a classic act of war, regardless of whether or not any soldiers were involved.
Fucking idiot wants to go to war with Mexico.
Fucking idiot doesn't realize that Mexico is already at war with us.
Fucking idiot thinks the US and Mexico are at war.
Oh really?When did that war begin? How did it begin? What is Mr Biden doing about it?
A war doesn't stop being a war just because the government of the country being invaded finds it inconvenient to acknowledge the invasion.
Wow you managed to disprove your own circular argument in just three posts. I think that's a new record for you!
Maybe lay off the MAGA bong for a while and let your neurons wake back up.
Nor because the putative government of the state from which the war is being launched is not waging the war. War isn't just for recognized states.
Actually Mexico is pretty close to a failed state. If the blame is to be laid anywhere it falls squarely at the feet of the cartels who really control the country.
Who were enriched by Americans buying drugs, speaking of destabilising a country.
The cartels are pretty close to being a state.
No, Brett. This is complete ahistorical fiction. There was no "invited into the country" in 1798. All you people saying "If there's no borders, then you don't have a country" have simply invented a legal regime unknown to the founders. "Alien friends" in Madison's words just meant citizens of countries with which we were not at war, in contrast to alien enemies.
(There was no "Alien and Sedition act." There were a group of laws, which were collectively known as the Alien and Sedition Acts, plural. One of those acts was dubbed the Alien Friends Act, which allowed the president the discretion to deport any non-citizen he personally decided was dangerous to the U.S. (Another was the Alien Enemies Act, which applied to non-citizens from countries with which we were at war.) The former was allowed to expire; the latter is actually still in the U.S. Code.)
I literally linked to the report by Madison, you're free to read it, rather than engage in quibbles which are entirely beside the point.
That point being that the out of context quote does NOT establish that Madison thought that invasions could only happen during a war. The thrust of the quote, to the extent it had any relevance to that question, ran the other way: That invasions ARE acts of war.
A point that's got nothing to do with distinguishing one group of people forcing their way across a border from another group of people forcing their way across a border.
"Brett completely failed to understand what he read," is not a quibble. Prof. Somin correctly applied the report; you misunderstood it. If we are not at war, then it is not an invasion. Since we are at war neither with Mexico nor any of the other countries of origin of people crossing the border, nor are we at war with dishwashers, landscapers, or construction workers, it cannot be an invasion.
His entire point was that you can't deport aliens under the government's war powers unless there's a war.
We ARE at war with the Mexican crime cartels. That we so far are not fighting back doesn't change that. We are under attack by an armed and hostile foreign power.
"If we are not at war, then it is not an invasion."
I've read it, and that's backwards. If there's an invasion, then we are at war, is the gist of it.
Brett, does your retardation know no bounds? If Mexico were actually invading, do you think Ilya would say "Wait! It's not an invasion until Mexico declares war!"
No. Because he's not as brainwashed as you.
Invasion is an operation of war.
It means exactly that, as both Ilya and James agree. If this is an invasion, then it's a war. Do you really think Mexico (or anyone else) is intending to go to war with us, declared or not?If so, oh man are you in the grip of some serious delusions, but let's say it's true, and it's Mexico. Isn't that the story??? Who cares about Texas's fucking immigration problems, we need to do some preemptive strikes against Mexico's military capability, right?
More likely your brain is once again caught between your emotional paranoia and FoxNews, blinding you to the total lack of logic in your ranting.
A war need not be conducted by an official state. We are under attack from the Mexican crime lords. It's war.
Good luck policing what constitutes ‘a war’ here, Randy! You’ll DEFINITELY be able to do so in a non-question begging way!
This post is the perfect microcosm to show how far the comments here have degenerated over the years due to lack of moderation and successful efforts to attract the MAGA crowd, which prides itself on being vulgar and disruptive.
It's notable that none of the commenters critical of the post came to terms with the actual reasoning of Prof. Somin's argument. It seems evident to me that many commenters don't even bother reading the posts.
They have - including me. You just don't want to listen.
Well... perhaps in your case you read the post but you didn't understand it. I would blame your general lack of intelligence. For example, you seem to think Israel's West Bank settlements are comparable to illegal immigration. That's one of the dumber things I've ever read on VC, which is saying something (see also: Brett).
So no, it's not that people don't want to listen. It's that your points are too stupid to be worth a rebuttal.
Well, that escalated quickly to ad hominems. When someone says a comment isn't worth a rebuttal, that usually means they don't have one.
Continued Israeli settlements in the West Bank aren't sanctioned either by Israel (at least not officially), and certainly not by Palestine. So I'm confused how you would describe that as anything but illegal immigration. That's literally what it is - both immigration to another country, and illegal.
I find ad hominem to be the appropriate response to MAGA-style delusions shared within a cult-like bubble. For example, would you bother to try to reason with a flat-earther? No, you’d just say “Wake up and get a life, loser.” The point of the cult of flat-earthers isn’t to put forward a reasonable argument in the first place, so engaging it with reason is just a category mistake. Same with you and MAGA.
(Israeli settlements are absolutely sanctioned, officially, by Israel. Just to point out how much like a flat-earther you are.)
Nope, you’re just stereotyping, Randy. They point is to refute using reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8DQSM-b2cc
It's why and how the whole world abandoned natural rights over a century ago.
Well, John Rohan, I just scrolled up and reread all the comments. Are you referring to your comment about the Civil War? Do you actually think that is coming to terms with Prof. Somin's argument?
Somin doesn't even care what Somin's arguments are. He only cares about the conclusion.
OR -- far more likely --- they had at one time paid very close attention and know what you don't know and can't see.
Okay, I'm game. What do "they" know that I don't and can't see. And when was this time "they" were paying close attention to a post made three days ago?
Drewski just won't take time to use words with any nuance.
towontist
Perfect?
Microcosm? (bit pompouis, eh 🙂
Maga crowd? Pure conjecture that is self-serving
"vulgar and disruptive" said vulgarly and disruptively by someone who thinks HIllary is another Churchill 🙂 what a loser
Only two days ago and already this hasn't aged well:
https://youtu.be/XPcfJ48h3yA?si=PJI9lBz1lz1HLMod