The Volokh Conspiracy
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Murthy v. Missouri and Government Urging Platforms to Restrict Speech
The government can't block viewpoints it condemns from its own property that has been opened to publicspeech. Should there be limits on government systematically and substantially encouraging private entities to block the same viewpoints from their property—which may be much more important to public debate than the government property where speech remains free?
I watched with great interest yesterday's argument in Murthy v. Missouri, the former Missouri v. Biden. My sense was that most Justices were skeptical about the argument that the government violates the First Amendment simply by noncoercively urging and "substantial[ly] encourag[ing]" platforms to restrict speech.
Among other things, as Justices Kavanaugh and Kagan suggested, the government likely ought to be free to, for instance, call up an editor to ask the editor not to run a story (or publish an op-ed) that the government thinks might interfere with some investigation, or be unfair, or simply be inaccurate, so long as this is understood as a request and not a coercive demand. I tentatively think that has to be right; and the challengers to the law didn't seem to have much of a response.
On the other hand, the discussion (including Justice Kagan's example of the government asking platforms to remove pro-terrorist speech, even when it's constitutionally protected) crystallized one thing that's troubling me and I expect some others.
Say the government thinks some speech is dangerous in various ways. It might be pro-terrorist, anti-Semitic (an example given by the government's lawyer in the argument), skeptical of vaccine reliability, anti-war, unpatriotic, sharply critical of the police, and so on. The government recognizes that it can't criminalize the speech. But, it says, at least it can deplatform it from the government's own property. It therefore blocks such speech from the mails. It blocks people from engaging in such speech from government-owned parks and sidewalks. It blocks them from engaging in such speech from forums that it has opened up for private speech, such as meeting rooms in public libraries, or student group events in public university classrooms. More generally, it tries to pervasively stop private citizens from expressing such speech on government property.
Clearly unconstitutional, the Court's doctrine has said. Even on the government's own property (and even setting aside "traditional public forums" such as parks and sidewalks), the government can't exclude speech based on viewpoint. To quote Justice Thurgood Marshall in an early government property case,
[A]bove all else, the First Amendment means that government has no power to restrict expression because of its message, its ideas, its subject matter, or its content. To permit the continued building of our politics and culture, and to assure self-fulfillment for each individual, our people are guaranteed the right to express any thought, free from government censorship. The essence of this forbidden censorship is content control.
And, as to viewpoint control, the Court has extended that even to property such as K-12 classrooms, when opened for public use after hours. Indeed, this recognition that the government may not suppress viewpoints it dislikes even on its own property (once it has opened it up for public access) has been seen as one of the signal achievements of the liberal wing of the Supreme Court.
Yet now much private speech has moved off government property and onto "the modern public square" of social media. The mails are less important than ever before, I think. Many people spend little time on public parks and sidewalks, where they can see the traditional streetcorner speaker.
So the federal government, constitutionally disabled from restricting viewpoints on this sort of property, is claiming the right to engage in a systemic campaign of encouraging private entities to suppress those viewpoints from being expressed on those entities' property. "Sure, we have tolerate offensive viewpoints on our property, which isn't that important for public debate any more," the government seems to be saying. "But it's fine for us to set up a system that uses all our persuasive power to get private property owners to ban those viewpoints from their property, which is much more important for public debate."
Now maybe this is defensible: Maybe there is a sharp First Amendment divide between government acting to block certain viewpoints from being discussed on its own property and government merely persuading private parties to block those same viewpoints from being discussed on their property. Or maybe this power to persuade private parties to block speech is actually a necessary feature of our system of public discourse: Maybe we can afford to protect evil and dangerous speech from government suppression only because we can expect private institutions to suppress it (including with the government's help). Or maybe there's just no administrable way of distinguishing proper attempts to persuade entities not to publish or display certain material from improper ones.
But this situation—government lacking power to restrict viewpoints on its own property but at the same time systematically working with the platforms to have those viewpoints restricted on their property—does give me pause. And it might be what led the Fifth Circuit Missouri v. Biden panel to condemn such encouragement, when done as part of a system; here is an example from a passage where the court found unconstitutional encouragement of restriction even having expressly found absence of coercion:
Ultimately, the CDC was entangled in the platforms' decision-making processes…. [T]he platforms' decisions were not made by independent standards, but instead were marred by modification from CDC officials. Thus, the resulting content moderation, "while not compelled by the state, was so significantly encouraged, both overtly and covertly" by CDC officials that those decisions "must in law be deemed to be that of the state."
In any event, I'm still not positive what the right approach ought to be. As I noted, it seems to me that a majority of the Justices was skeptical of any prohibition on the government noncoercively encouraging private parties to restrict speech. Perhaps that skepticism is warranted. But I just wanted to flag what strikes me as one structural argument cutting against that skepticism.
Note that I'm Counsel of Record in NRA v. Vullo, which the ACLU's David Cole argued right after Murthy. But though Murthy and Vullo share one issue—the coercion question—this post is solely limited to the "substantial encouragement" facet of Murthy, which is not present in Vullo.
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The States should have limited their argument to protect core political speech. That would have better focused the case and done away with the Doxing and advocating youth self-harm hypos that tripped them up badly.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/government-censorship-of-social-media-demands-bright-line-rule
You're probably right, from what I've learned about government judges looking for any excuse to let other government agents off the hook. But it shouldn't be that way.
.
If you were to do a breakdown by party-affiliation of the Presidents appointing such judges (for state judges, the party-affiliation of the appointing Governors, and, where it's allowed, the party that endorsed the judge), do you think it would come out evenly split between the two parties? I don't.
I think worrying about the exact breakdown is as useful as worrying about which thug is beating you harder, the 250 pounder or the 300 pounder.
The problem is government itself, not which thugs are controlling it at the moment.
You are dismissive of the real contention between the judiciary and every other constituency, and its ability to say, and enforce, the power of “No.” It looks to me like the Bill of Rights is alive and kicking, and I think that’s only because of the courts’ ability, and some inclination, to say “no” to government actions.
The judiciary is not just a “thug,” but one with it’s own kind of mission. All those other government “thugs”…elected politicians and career people, have been very much matched by the power of the judiciary and it’s ability to say “no,” particularly with respect to intrusions on behaviors we denote as “civil liberties.”
If you want zero government, then sure, off with the judiciary. But if you want limited government (and maybe some benefits/protections it can afford), the throttle is in the judiciary, and it’s only partially friendly to government.
Here, the Court can say, “No.” If it does, that is likely to diminish the power of constituencies I would concede as “thuggish” in this case.
That breakdown ignores the reality of how many judges are appointed. Senate blue slips.
Is there something other than "government judges"? If there were, why would the government listen to them, and what would be the sanction if it didn't?
But have you been in a cave, that was exactly what the VP did, doxed tons of people she didn't like. Both ACLU and Supreme Court reprimanded her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Supreme Court Donor Ruling Is a Defeat for Kamala Harris
One of the plaintiffs noted that once donor data is in the open, “people take advantage of that and start doxing or trying to destroy people’s livelihood by getting them fired from their job.”
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. went further, pointing out that, “The need for up-front collection is particularly dubious given that California — one of only three states to impose such a requirement — did not rigorously enforce the disclosure obligation until 2010.
Aye, there's the rub.
Thinking the government's activity in this has been noncoercive, or even could be noncoercive, is as ridiculous as Scalia or whichever justice it was who said K-9 drug sniffer dogs were not alerting to their handler's choices, or that people should know they are free to go when a cop stops them and doesn't expressly tell them they are under arrest.
There's something foul about government judges making excuses for other government agents.
I am stuck on the notion that the government can make a "request" of a private entity without such a "request" being coercive. I fear it is impossible for government action to be non-coercive, and impractical to expect that it would be.
The government has an exclusively HUGE franchise in the crafting of statutes, regulatory rule-making, and enforcement regimes, formal and informal. Its employees, including our elected officials, prove themselves widely able and willing to indirectly punish those who fail to heel, never having to prove that this was a coercive request, and shifting the almost impossible burden of having to prove that some allegedly unrelated punitive action was in fact an indirect mechanism of coercion. "No, we did not coerce them to do this. And, yes, we did punish them for doing that. What is your complaint?"
Given the super-human expanse of our laws and regulations, with unlimited opportunities for their re-interpretation, the real costs of litigation, and the effective power of prosecutorial discretion, only a fool would see a government "request" as being any less than foreboding guidance. As is said, "Decisions have consequences."
Your argument is basically that government is too powerful to be allowed to express opinions.
Maybe that's true, but that's the country we live in. Not everything is a constitutional issue. Some stuff is political and best dealt with by voting. If you don't like the government's opinions, vote for people with different opinions.
“Your argument is basically that government is too powerful to be allowed to express opinions.”
No. Basically, it’s not. (You just made that up so you could say what you wanted to say.)
See how I think the government should be able to “request speech” below.
See how I think the government should be able to “request speech” below.
Exactly. You think the government is too powerful to be allowed to express opinions generally, and should only be allowed to express opinions that a court has pre-certified that the government has a compelling interest in expressing. Because of its power. If it weren’t so powerful — if it didn’t have
an exclusively HUGE franchise in the crafting of statutes, regulatory rule-making, and enforcement regimes, formal and informal
— if not forits employees, including our elected officials, [who] prove themselves widely able and willing to indirectly punish those who fail to heel
— then it would be fine for government to express all of its opinions, not just the judge-approved ones, according to you.I don't have a problem with the government expressing its opinion, even if I disagree with it. This isn't a question of the government expressing its opinion. It's a question of the government coercing others to express opinions of the government.
You fabricated a false issue.
So when the government expresses its opinion about what Facebook's editorial policies should be, you're fine with that?
Yes. But when the government tells Facebook what it must or must not publish, I'm not fine with that. The challenge, for me, is to distinguish between an opinion of government and a demand of government. The government must not compel speech.
Yes, definitely. The government should be able to express opinions regardless of whether I like them, and even loudly, but not forcefully so as to compel behavior of non-governmental entities (except regarding the narrow category of speech that is unlawful).
Ok. Well that seems rather different from
I fear it is impossible for government action to be non-coercive, and impractical to expect that it would be.
but maybe I just read too much into it.No; it's a question of the government expressing its opinion, and some people calling that "coercion."
The line between opinion and coercion can be easily blurred.
The HR department in a large company in which I worked expressed “concern,” through my manager, that I was planning to give a particular employee a negative performance review.
“Are they telling me to not do that?” I asked my manager.
“No,” he said, “They only expressed it as an opinion, but they sounded pretty serious about it.”
That was HR’s opinion. What was never explained was why that review was placed on hold for two months while I was ordered to stand by. Also unexplained was why my pay increase and bonus didn’t get processed with everybody else’s that year, nor for months after that. When I inquired about what was going on (I had a close, ongoing working relationship with the people in HR, including the department director), all HR people just looked down at the floor silently, unable to speak of my matter.
So, yeah, just an opinion. Quite chilling.
Funny. Years later, I discussed a problem with the president of the company. It was a problem of a weak high-level executive that had been festering for years, and that he was too timid to address. I told him how I would handle the problem. He commented, “I wouldn’t do that if I were you.” I replied, “No. I don’t think you would.”
I went on to implement my action plan, which neither he nor anybody else opposed. Not long thereafter, I was fired.
Once again, HR was unable to explain or comment about the matter. Their panties were so twisted that they wouldn’t even take my phone call to help expedite my termination. I called the CEO and left a message that he should tell HR to call me.
I promptly got a call back, not from HR, but from the house counsel. “Your employment has been terminated,” she said.
“And what is the cause for my termination?” I asked. She scrambled and replied, “You know what you did.”
“Really, I don’t,” I told her. “Nobody has given me any cause for my termination. What is it?”
“I’ll call you right back,” she said. Three hours later, she called me back. “The cause is a difference of opinion.”
“What opinion is that?” I asked.
“It doesn’t matter,” she answered. “Your are officially terminated without cause.”
I think it was the president’s opinion that did me in, but I never found out.
The notion is both incoherent and tyrannical, that the property of private publishers has mysteriously become, "the modern public square." Still less does it make sense to suppose that premise cancels the 1A rights of the publishers, and thus makes them regulable by government—with all that presumption going on against the backdrop that the un-modern public square was and remains the least regulated of all expressive forums.
Only benighted aspirations to abet internet utopianism can account for anyone sparing even a moment to entertain such gibberish.
"Only benighted aspirations to abet internet utopianism can account for anyone sparing even a moment to entertain such gibberish."
Thank you for sharing that your ox isn't being gored.
Nor yours.
It was said that the major newspapers would occasionally get phone calls from higher-ups in three letter agencies asking them to kill a story on national security grounds. Ask them to shred the Pentagon Papers... we know how that went. Ask them not to accidentally reveal the identity of our man in Havana, that's another story. Importantly, newspapers were being asked to silence themselves and not third parties.
Importantly, newspapers were being asked to silence themselves and not third parties.
a) That's not true.
b) That's not important.
.
compare (source):
"Misuse of power, possessed by virtue of state law and made possible only because the wrongdoer is clothed with the authority of state law, is action taken ‘under color of’ state law." When the denial of equal protection is not commanded by law or by administrative regulation but is nonetheless accomplished through police enforcement of "custom" or through hortatory admonitions by public officials to private parties to act in a discriminatory manner, the action is state action. In addition, when a state clothes a private party with official authority, that private party may not engage in conduct forbidden the state.
Beyond this are cases where a private individual discriminates, and the question is whether a state has encouraged the effort or has impermissibly aided it.
It's not just that the 'requests' are inherently coercive coming from the government. The near monopoly the platforms enjoy is itself a product of government policies. Different policies would have resulted in a much more diverse internet with fewer choke points. Different policies could still end those monopolies.
So, even if the government didn't intend to coerce, (In a pig's eye!) it is dealing with an industry that knows it must stay on the government's good side.
What government policies substantially create or protect the market dominance of Google, X, Facebook, Microsoft, TikTok, or any other social media provider?
It looks like each has a uniquely valued offering as judged by consumers. Their initial advantage was their early entry into what would become a favored space and provider. Their sustaining advantage seems to be almost completely attributable to the network effect. How do government policies favor those players such that a potential competitor is at a disadvantage due to those policies?
For one, not treating them as a common carrier is a government policy. So are their copyrights and patents, which are inherently a government grant.
Yes. I see those government policies. Those policies are granted to all market players regardless of size. I don't understand how they enhance an alleged "monopoly" position of any of the players in the market.
A government request is unavoidably coercive, and a government request for speech is therefore compelled speech. But there’s a need for the government, in the interests of people, to be a capable advocate in the public debate.
Why, when wanting to make a “request for speech,” should the government not have to pre-certify the “strict scrutiny” standard by obtaining a court-issued warrant to that effect?
This would effectively create a prior restraint on government-compelled speech, but would give the government a known, predictable, swift mechanism to act. This requirement would bring somewhat independent, prior, strict[er] scrutiny of any such measure of government-compelled speech. A court record can also be used to shine more light on government-compelled speech.
Contrarily, I can imagine that such a mechanism might pave a path to much more government-compelled speech. (It probably would.)
I can only hope that the attitude towards coercion expressed by so many will not change when the next school prayer or similar case pops up.
Example of a student having been compelled to pray?
Yeah, you probably loved Sam Harris and his fake tears over the need we will have to kil millions of innocent children and women.
"What will we do if an Islamist regime, which grows dewy-eyed at the mere mention of paradise, ever acquires long-range nuclear weaponry? If history is any guide, we will not be sure about where the offending warheads are or what their state of readiness is, and so we will be unable to rely on targeted, conventional weapons to destroy them. In such a situation, the only thing likely to ensure our survival may be a nuclear first strike of our own. Needless to say, this would be an unthinkable crime—as it would kill tens of millions of innocent civilians in a single day—but it may be the only course of action available to us, given what Islamists believe. How would such an unconscionable act of self-defense be perceived by the rest of the Muslim world? It would likely be seen as the first incursion of a genocidal crusade. The horrible irony here is that seeing could make it so: this very perception could plunge us into a state of hot war with any Muslim state that had the capacity to pose a nuclear threat of its own. All of this is perfectly insane, of course: I have just described a plausible scenario in which much of the world’s population could be annihilated on account of religious ideas that belong on the same shelf with Batman, the philosopher’s stone, and unicorns."
If Ilya and Eugene get their way on this case, it will result in tyranny. There is simply no such thing as a government “urging” that does not carry an implied threat. If one market participant were to merely urge another, government would not take part.
This is like the notion of a voluntary encounter between a citizen and a police officer. There is simply no such thing, unless the citizen began by seeking out the officer.
This is just dumb. Do you think if Trump gets elected and his administration does the same thing except they’re trying to get Facebook and YouTube to ban pro-LGBTQ speech that Facebook and YouTube would go along with it?
Your actual problem isn’t with the government, it’s with Facebook and YouTube. They wanted to ban anti-vaxx speech, and they did, with the help of the government. They don’t want to ban pro-LGBTQ speech, so they won’t, even if the government pressures them to. The government plays a negligible role in what speech the big social media platforms allow or disallow.
Look at JohnSteed's post just below. He gets it. He doesn't like it, but at least he's figured out the right thing not to like.
Let's assume that's true. They're effectively monopolies, and should not have this unfettered discretion.
BigTech is filled with liberals who think you finishing in your husband's anus is a more fundamental right than to not have your house seized to build a NAACP meeting house.
How can multiple entities be monopolies?
If there is a healthy adversarial relationship between the press and the state, then mere encouragement by the government may be tolerable. If it becomes more coercive, the press can always publish the email it got from the government and say “Hey everybody, look at what the government tried to make us do!”
On the other hand, if the press wants to collude with the government, it can say “we only censored speech that was contrary to what the CDC said was the pure gospel truth of SCIENCE”; and the CDC can say “we only issued guidelines” and everyone can cover their ass.
Isn’t it a bit naive to fail to distinguish between elected officials, who have ZERO ability to enforce an outcome based on their individual statements, and bureaucrats, who have unfettered federal resources to encourage or to obliterate companies, industries, and cooperative ventures with a panoply of regulations and enforcers, including administrative judges, that would make a Byzantine emperor jealous? The fellow below claims that politicians saying stupid stuff is a government "urging" that does not carry an implied threat. Seems naive to me.
Of course there is. Politicians say stupid stuff that they have neither the ability nor intention to follow through on all the time.
There's a big difference between an offhand comment and a coordinated effort like Pedo Joe engaged in.
What, exactly, is the difference?
"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" What do you think, offhand comment or a coordinated effort?
An empty wish that the politician has "neither the ability nor intention to follow through on", I have been told.
Coordinated efforts by politicians are just as likely, and possibly more, as offhand comments are to include stupid stuff that they have neither the ability nor intention to follow through on.
"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"
Philosophical musing, rhetorical question, or a King's command?
I almost wish the government would lose, just in case Trump wins again. He says that kind of stuff all the time. It would be really funny to watch him try to operate under an injunction against saying anything that might be construed as pressuring someone to act or speak in a certain way.
What would be more funny is if he orders the military to go nuclear on leftist agitators.
As Ronaldus Magnus stated in 1981, on the occasion of his inauguration, “In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”
If Nazis are entitled to march in Jewish neighborhoods and Al Sharpton walks around a free man, certainly individuals who post objections to CDC (now-proven) lies or to highly questionable practices in the 2020 general election are entitled to do so free from government “jaw-boning” of the protected class of media oligarchs who operate the current public square on the internet.
individuals who post ... are entitled to do so
Let me stop you right there. Individuals are not entitled to post. Posting is permitted only by the grace of Facebook et al.
Yet another person who's extremely confused about the world they inhabit.
This is 'Reason,' so use reason to derive what government can do which is what they have been allowed to do by the People and no more.
Government acting outside their bounds must be removed since government NEVER reduces the powers granted legally or taken illegally.
Law is not legal just because it is written. This is a confusion many have between 'law' and 'legal' - they are not the same. Legal is more than law because law must be valid, tested, and more so accepted. Law must also be used and enforced correctly to further it being legal.