The Volokh Conspiracy
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Court Should Focus on Coercion in Murthy v. Missouri
The government is entitled to try to persuade social media to take down posts, but not to coerce them to do so.

On Monday, the Supreme Court held oral argument in Murthy v. Missouri, a case in which the states of Missouri and Louisiana, and several private plaintiffs argue that the Biden Administration pressured social media firms into taking down posts they deemed to be "misinformation." Most of the justices emphasized that at at least some degree of coercion is required before courts can intervene to block the government's actions in such a case.
If government officials are merely resorting to persuasion, however vehement, that doesn't by itself violate the First Amendment. Indeed, such suasion is is normal behavior for public officials. As Justice Brett Kavanaugh put it, "my experience is[that] the United States, in all its manifestations, has regular communications with the media to talk about things they don't like or don't want to see or are complaining about factual inaccuracies." Kavanaugh was likely referring to his service as a White House official in the George W. Bush Administration. Justice Elena Kagan, also a former White House official, made a similar point:
[L]ike Justice Kavanaugh, I've had some experience encouraging press to suppress their own speech. You just wrote about editorial. Here are the five reasons you shouldn't write another one. You just wrote a story that's filled with factual errors. Here are the 10 reasons why you shouldn't do that again. I mean, this happens literally thousands of times a day in the federal government.
Cynics might argue that Kavanaugh and Kagan are biased by their own experience in government service. But this distinction between suasion and coercion is inherent in the text of the First Amendment. The Free Speech Clause doesn't restrict any and all government efforts to constrain speech. Rather it, bars government actions "abridging the freedom of speech" (emphasis added). If the state - or anyone - persuades a private entity to cut back on speech voluntarily, the freedom of speech has not been abridged, even if the total amount of speech may be reduced.
Louisiana Solicitor General Benjamin Aguinaga, arguing for the plaintiff states, suggested things are different in the case of social media firms, because here the government is urging them to cut back on the speech of "third parties" (users of their websites) rather than their own. But that's no different than if a government official I criticize on this blog contacts Reason and urges them to stop allowing me to post on its site because (they claim) my critiques of government policy are inaccurate and unfair. As long as there is no coercion, neither my freedom of speech nor Reason's would have been violated if Reason decides to bar me from the site. I only have a right to post here in so far as Reason lets me, and barring me (should they choose to do so) would be an exercise of their freedom speech.
This still leaves the question of whether various federal agencies did in fact coerce social media sites into barring speakers from their sites. As I wrote in a post about the Fifth Circuit decision the Court is reviewing here, I think the answer is likely "yes." But I admit there can be some difficult factual issues in cases like this. Clever officials my rely on veiled threats rather than open ones. Context is critical in assessing such situations.
Importantly, the Fifth Circuit found that officials did in fact threaten to punish social media firms that refused their demands:
[T]he officials threatened—both expressly and implicitly—to retaliate against inaction. Officials threw out the prospect of legal reforms and enforcement actions while subtly insinuating it would be in the platforms' best interests to comply. As one official put it, "removing bad information" is "one of the easy, low-bar things you guys [can] do to make people like me"—that is, White House officials—"think you're taking action."
That sure seems like coercion to me! Importantly, the people making these statements were officials whose superiors had the power to carry out at least some of these veiled threats. The evidentiary and interpretive issues here are - as noted in my previous post - similar to those that sometimes arise when organized crime organizations, like the Mafia, engage in extortion or protection rackets:
It's noteworthy that the record analyzed by the [Fifth Circuit] doesn't seem to include any examples of direct, unequivocal threats, such "If you don't take down X, I will inflict punishment Y." But as the court recognizes, context matters. If a representative of a Mafia boss tells a business owner to pay protection money, because "that's one of the easy, low-bar things you can do to make people like me and the Don happy," the context strongly suggests a threat of coercion. The same thing is true if a representative of a government agency with regulatory authority over Twitter or Facebook uses similar language to pressure those firms to take down material.
If it is indeed true that government officials "threatened…. to retaliate against inaction," then the Supreme Court should uphold the Fifth Circuit injunction against the defendant agencies, at least in so far as that injunction bars coercive pressure. As discussed in my previous post, I am far less convinced that the Fifth Circuit acted appropriately in also enjoining "significant encouragement" defined as "a governmental actor exercis[ing] active, meaningful control over the private party's decision." If the private party gave the governmental actor such control voluntarily, that may be bad media ethics, but it is not a violation of freedom of speech.
For those keeping score, my position here is exactly the same as in the Texas and Florida social media law cases argued before the Supreme Court last month. There, social media firms urged the Court to strike down state laws requiring them to host speech the firms object to. These laws clearly qualify as government coercion, and should be struck down. On the other hand, if Texas and Florida officials had merely sought to persuade Facebook and Twitter to host various types of right-wing speech voluntarily, there would be no violation of the First Amendment there either.
In sum, the First Amendment bars government from coercing social media firms to either post speech the firms object to (as Texas and Florida seek to do) or take down speech the firms would like to allow (as various federal agencies apparently did). On the other hand, both federal and state officials have every right to urge firms to put up or take down posts voluntarily.
Much of Monday's oral argument was devoted to questions of whether the plaintiffs had standing. My impression is that the justices could potentially go either way on that question, though I myself think at least some of the plaintiffs do have standing (because their speech on social media got restricted in response to coercive pressure brought to bear by government agencies). If the Court rules the private plaintiffs lack standing, it may be tough sledding for the state governments, as the Supreme Court has not been very friendly to creative state standing claims in recent years. I will leave the details of these standing issues to other commentators.
If the Court reaches the merits, I hope they make clear that coercion is the appropriate standard, but also that veiled, but credible threats of retaliation by government officials qualify as such coercion.
UPDATE: In the original version of this post, I accidentally attributed a statement by Justice Elena Kagan to Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. I apologize for the mistake, which has now been corrected.
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There is no risk in letting the government point out to its friends in the media and financial industries who exactly is a danger to democracy and must not be permitted a social media account, posting privileges or a bank account. No credible threats required, just a common understanding of what is good for the country. And it's OK to establish government-to-business liaisons and channels of communication to facilitate that common understanding.
We are all safe as long as no one passes a law saying Ilya Somin cannot post his opinions on reason.com and cannot deposit his GMU pay check at any FDIC bank. If agents of the Federal government persuade reason.com or Bank of America to deny Mr. Somin and a few hundreds, thousands or millions like him access to their services, where's the harm?
letting the government point out to its friends in the media and financial industries who exactly is a danger to democracy and must not be permitted a social media account, posting privileges or a bank account.
You need to ask yourself whether the problem in this scenario is really the government... or is it the overly powerful media and financial industries who are choosing not to permit
millions
of Americans from having social media or bank accounts?dirc, what happens in the case where Somin gets to keep his bank account, and after hearing a government objection to one post by Somin, Reason agrees with the government's critique, and elects to take the post down? Are we in danger then?
Is Somin in danger? If Somin remains free to find another outlet for his post, where the publisher disagrees with the government's critique, and Somin thus can publish it, does that affect your assessment of the danger?
What principle limits the government once you have agreed that it is OK for the government to persuade one business to limit its association with one person? If the government can do that for one person and opinion that the government is critical of, what stops it from doing exerting its persuasion on more people, opinions and relationships and at scale?
What if reason.com is not persuaded to take down Mr. Somin's post and the government turns its powers of persuasion to the bank that handles reason.com's payroll and advertising payments?
Let me paraphrase your question as "if government persuasion only limits one Ilya Somin post on one website is there a danger"? The answer is, "no", not to you or me. But my questions to you are:
- if it does not stop there, if it is every business relationship and more many more people, do you think there is a danger?
- if you think there is a danger, do you think that government's use of persuasion should be limited to mitigate that danger?
Good point. That would be like saying it's wrong for loosely affiliated Sicilian family business to persuade friends to buy protection insurance.
So you get a call from the IRS about something. But it's non-coercive. How do you know? because they said 'this is just a suggestion' IRS never lies, remember that.
"removing bad information" is "one of the easy, low-bar things you guys [can] do to make people like me" — that is, White House officials — "think you're taking action"
This quote was unnecessarily chopped up and modified to make it seem more sinister. The real quote was
‘[R]emoving bad information from search’ is one of the easy, low-bar things you guys do to make people like me think you're taking action. If you're not getting that right, it raises even more questions about the higher bar stuff.
In particular, the omission of the interior quotes and the insertion of the word
can
make it seem like a suggestion or demand. But in reality, it was an observation. Social media companies like Facebook do point to their sanitization of search results as evidence of goodwill. Flaherty isn’t instructing Facebook to censor information, he’s pointing out that Facebook isn’t even doing the things it publicly boasts about well. It’s an accusation of incompetence, not a veiled threat.... this is the only example you have of an allegedly coercive statement by the government in either of your posts, and it fails.
There's really just no evidence of coercion in this case. The lower courts went on and on about persistence and tone, but no amount of angry badgering suddenly transforms persuasion into coercion.
Compare to the NRA case, where the coercion is clear.
“Nice little platform you got there. Be a pity if anything should happen to it.”
We'll talk when you find a quote like that in the exhibits. (Can't say "record" because so much of that was made up by the lower courts, as has become disturbingly typical.)
Now quit your partisan hackery and ask yourself, "Self, how would I feel if it were the Trump administration dropping broad hints to my lefty friends running the social media outfits?"
He does, all the time. What do you think "fake news" and "enemy of the people" are all about? He threatens 230 reform constantly if social media doesn't align its editorial policies to his preferences.
You better hope the government wins this case or Trump will have injunctions against badmouthing the press slapped all up and down his ass starting on his very first day in office.
Do you think that would be a bad thing?
There's also a difference between public whining about X and credibly threatening to do X, or at least I was told there was when Biden publicly threatened to do X against companies.
Just amazing how we're never supposed to take Trump at his word about anything. His attacks on the press indicate a serious threat to what's left of the freedom of the press - already pretty heavily eroded by billionaire owners.
Tell it to S_0. I wanted to take Biden at his word, Gaslight0 said that was unreasonable. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Which word? Where? As far as I'm aware Biden does not routinely attack and threaten the free press at pretty much every public speaking opportunity.
Nige, just to save you any more embarrassment , look up who owns WAPO....sounds like 'Bezos"
“His attacks on the press. . .” Lol. The lying liars at CNN and MSNBS, Cuomo, Lemon, Madcow spent six long years attacking President Trump. Every day, 24/7, CNN ran a banner with a “We HateTrump” across the bottom of their tv programming, regardless of the news item being reported about.
Does not matter who or why - it's illegal, immoral, and reason for De-Citizening
"We’ll talk when you find a quote like that in the exhibits."
I would imagine there's not any quote in the exhibits where a government official says, "I am violating the First Amendment."
So the government is innocent, case closed.
That "real quote" makes three things perfectly clear:
(1) The government thought that the purpose of the corporate activity was to follow government wishes.
(2) The government thought the companies should be doing a better job at what they were already doing ("getting that stuff right").
(3) The government expected the companies to do significantly more onerous things, too ("the higher bar stuff").
None of that is in there. These companies claim to do certain things, and inf fact have done certain theings well enough to have millions and millions of users. If they're not actually capable of still doing them why should anyone have faith in their claims about anything? And he was right. With the introduction of 'AI' more and more bad information has flooded the web. Google, whose name is literally shorthand for internet searches, is pretty much unusable. They're actually turning around and more or less deliberately pushing worse and worse information.
Number 1 is obviously not true, but 2 and 3 are. So? The whole point is that there's no problem with government wanting companies to do things. That's like what government does.
Number 1 is trivially true. That's the normal way to read "you do X to make me think Y".
Yeah, 'if you're incompetent about the basics you can hardly be trusted to do anything else' is a fairly trivial observation.
How about
1. The government thought that the purpose of the corporations' statements about their activity was to convince the government and others that their wishes were being met
in which case, again, yeah. No problem with telling the government that you happen to be doing what they want you to do.
Fundamentally you're just mad that both government and social media wanted to suppress anti-vaxx speech, and that the social media companies did so with the approval of government. None of us like you, and this case really drives it home. But it's not unconstitutional for everyone to dislike you at the same time.
NO, government is the RESULT of consensus. Are you on the 'deplorable' thing again. 80 million voters that have to be persuaded to see why they are wrong to exist.
Biden was going to be the Great Unifier, that didn't work...so now he is the Persuader 🙂 C'mon, we all remember the Disinformation Governance Board
In fact, many of the quotes that the trial court relied upon were doctored in that way. They all sounded very sinister, except that the judge and/or plaintiffs lied about those quotes.
For example, the trial court claimed that a statement by Francis Collins to Fauci that there needed to be a "quick and devastating take down" of some random pro-virus content (the "Great Barrington Declaration") demonstrated how censorious the government was being. Problem was, the trial court flat out lied. The actual statement was that there needed to be a "quick and devastating published take down" of the declaration. In other words, rather than saying that speech needed to be removed, they were discussing the need to publish counterspeech that refuted the speech.
Another one of the worst was a furious email from a White House official to Facebook saying, "Are you guys fucking serious? I want an answer on what happened here and I want it today." Problem was, again the judge lied. That email was not about demanding that speech be taken down. The "what happened here" was that somehow the White House official was unable to post his own speech because of technical difficulties, and he was frustrated that they hadn't fixed the problem. Maybe obnoxious, but had nothing to do with suppressing speech.
Sorry, no. The full quote is no less "sinister" than the parts presented.
"The government is entitled to try to persuade social media to take down posts, but not to coerce them to do so."
BULLSHIT !
As eloquent and persuasive as ever.
See Prof. Volokh's post on this:
https://reason.com/volokh/2024/03/19/murthy-v-missouri-and-government-urging-platforms-to-restrict-speech/
"If the state—or anyone—persuades a private entity to cut back on speech voluntarily, the freedom of speech has not been abridged, even if the total amount of speech may be reduced."
The problem is that the government wasn't persuading the private entity to cut back on its own speech. It was persuading the private entity to cut back on the speech of others. Who were given no choice about whether to respond to the persuasion, because the government had "persuaded" somebody else to coerce them.
Bellmore, press freedom is a thing. It cannot at once be legitimately protected, and also ruled out as an unconstitutional power to coerce the expressive freedom of others.
Lathrop, not everything that involves words is a newspaper, just because you've got a background in publishing.
There is a fundamental, and a legal, difference, between words an entity originates itself, and words that entity carries for others. Look at Section 230: "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."
Where "information content provider" is defined as, "(3) Information content provider The term “information content provider” means any person or entity that is responsible, in whole or in part, for the creation or development of information provided through the Internet or any other interactive computer service."
The platforms are NOT the "publisher" of what they were censoring on the government's behalf. The law EXPLICITLY bars them from being treated as the publisher of this content!
So get over your obsession with internet platforms being publishers of all their content. Much of the protection they enjoy is premised exactly on their NOT being its publisher!
There is a fundamental, and a legal, difference, between words an entity originates itself, and words that entity carries for others.
Except on the basis of the legal fiction you lunge at once to reify, that remains utterly untrue. And even your reification effort is lame.
As you well know, the Section 230 language you quote was written to relieve internet publishers from liability for defamation, and certainly not written with intent to justify suspending their 1A rights. That last bit is all you.
If you think about it even for a second, you know mere legislation cannot suspend the 1A rights of internet publishers. Nor is a tyrannical legislative workaround to make a former publisher not a publisher for 1A purposes something which can be accomplished within the Constitution.
You are a frustrated internet utopian, groping for any lever you can find to deliver personal publishing power so great that nobody has capacity to deliver it to you. Practical inability to make it happen is the real reason no one on earth has ever enjoyed the full measure of personal power you demand.
Any attempt to do what you demand would destroy the means to accomplish your objective, by driving out of business the actual publishers you insist on ignoring until they are properly targeted for destruction by government. Every social media contribution you cherish depends utterly on continuation in the publishing business of actual publishers you insist are not publishers at all. To stack paradoxes is not a method of persuasion.
No, Brett. They are the publishers of it. That's the whole point of § 230: to ban the government from treating them as publishers even though they are. If they weren't the publishers, there'd be no need for § 230.
(Also, § 230 is irrelevant here; the issue is the 1A. The government can pass a law that is more protective of speech than the 1A — as § 230 is — but not less.)
Social media companies do have processs whereby people can appeal suspensions and deletions. But as has become increasingly, if unsurprisingly, clear, the 'coercion' is having to be more and more inferred and added in. There's a public interest during a crisis like a pandemic for disinformation to be actively combated. Furthermore, the government response does need to be subject to critical scrutiny, something made extremely difficult if the loudest most prevalent critics are idiots screaming absolute fucking nonsense. The vaccines were going to kill millions if not billions, remember?
They nominally have such a process, but as anybody who has gone through it can testify, it's largely a formal face on what is actually just arbitrary decisions.
Brett couldn’t get his Facebook post reinstated, which is evidence the process to remove it was arbitrary. Nobody should assume the post was removed because of Brett’s history of posting bullshit. And shame on any of you who would even think such a thing. Shame shame shame.
I was a member of a Facebook private group, which repeatedly got suspended as violating TOS, to the point where we had to shut it down and revive it on MeWe.
At no point in the formal process did they ever identify exactly what content had violated the TOS. So we couldn't dispute the decision, we couldn't avoid future 'violations' save by guessing at what they'd found objectionable and self-censoring. "You did!" "No, we didn't!" But at no point were we allowed to know WHAT we supposedly did!
That's the sort of 'formal process' we're talking about here.
Sure, if you're a big, public figure, like Trump, they go through more motions, make more of a show of process. The little guy? There's no formal process at all. Just sentence first, and you're allowed to plead for mercy.
Yes, but Facebook is utterly terrible, and that has nothing to do with the government, though, again, it proves the point the quoted official was making.
Bellmore, 1A press freedom protects liberty for publishers—and for you—to decide what to publish, and what to exclude, at pleasure. The means that when they turn you down, no due process is required. None at all. And it does not infringe your liberty when they do it, any more than it would infringe your liberty if the NYT declined without comment to publish a letter to the editor you sent them.
Luckily, no one can make you publish anything you do not want to. Try to keep that in mind while you contemplate laws and policies to govern others.
That sounds anecdotal but rings true, but if the whole thing is arbitrary, it can hardly be said to be in obediance to the government.
I had my Twitter account locked for a threat, and I appealed, pointing out that they had misinterpreted my tweet, which was mocking someone else’s threat, and my account was unlocked shortly thereafter.
If it is indeed true that government officials "threatened…. to retaliate against inaction," then the Supreme Court should uphold the Fifth Circuit injunction against the defendant agencies, at least in so far as that injunction bars coercive pressure.
I suggest that analysis is legitimate only insofar as the alleged, "threats," are not obviated by 1A protected liberties. If the, "threatened," party enjoys constitutionally protected liberty to ignore the so-called threat, and do as it pleases, then what happened was not efficaciously even a threat, let alone coercion.
Government power to deprive anyone, including social media platforms, of power to publish at pleasure what they chose to publish, and to decline to publish what it pleases them to reject, is the question to be decided. It cannot legitimately be decided on a basis that some would-be publishing party might prove too pusillanimous to take advantage of Constitutional guarantees. To decide the question that way would in effect amount to a demand for unconstitutional infringement of the rights of some, to protect others from consequences more attributable to their own cowardice than to any action by government.
As always, advocacy must be rejected that liberty for social media contributors be defined more broadly than liberty for social media publishers. Expressive freedom must be protected on identical terms for everyone, including for social media publishers. They must not be singled out as a class less protected than the contributors they serve.
"If the, “threatened,” party enjoys constitutionally protected liberty to ignore the so-called threat, and do as it pleases, then what happened was not efficaciously even a threat, let alone coercion. "
This is an absolutely insane way of approaching the topic. The 1st amendment isn't some magical shield that protects us from government action. The government points a gun at you and says, "Don't publish that, or I'll shoot", you publish, and the bullet bounces off the 1st amendment. "Ha, take that, government!"
The 1st amendment does nothing until the courts effectuate it, which is hardly free or certain. You publish, the government "shoots", and maybe some time down the line a court says "Naughty government! Don't do that again!" And you're still still shot.
The 1st amendment doesn't magically stop the government from punishing you for refusing to submit. It just provides you with a legal basis for challenging the punitive action, at which point you discover that the process IS the punishment.
All of which is largely theoretical handwaving, since, as we’ve seen, the real threat to freedom of speech, such as it is on social media, is that a billionaire will buy it and turn it into his own personal mid-life crisis.
Yes, the real threat to freedom of speech is that a billionaire will buy a platform and relax censorship on it. [/sarc]
The real threat is that people will believe a billionaire supports freedom of speech, even when he’s banning journalists he doesn’t like, and ‘relaxing censorship’ just turns out to be ‘letting bots and scammers flood the site.’
The 1st amendment does nothing until the courts effectuate it, which is hardly free or certain.
Bellmore, feel free to try to sell that elsewhere. I know better from experience. I got face-to-face, in front of a witness, a specific threat of a beating at the hands of a specific government official, if I published a specific story. I had approached the boss of the would-be beater, to give the boss a chance to confirm or deny the story's specifics. It was a late-breaking story, and destined to become the only time in my career when I got to make the expensive call to, "Stop the presses!"
My response to the threat was to rely on my 1A right to press freedom, publish the story, and give it the most prominent location in the newspaper. I never even bothered to consult a lawyer. I added to the story an account of the threat, which I repeated as a word-for-word quotation, noting the names, spelling them right, and attributing to them their ranks and offices.
I also added an editorial, mocking the threat as ridiculous and incompetent, and citing the 1A. That intensified the sting—the story reported involved an actually fatal decision, made negligently under pressure, and against government policy, by the guy who was supposedly going to beat me up.
It was a hell of a story. I never got a peep of resistance from government. After a modest interval, the guy who threatened me, a National Forest Supervisor, charged with management of an entire Rocky Mountain national forest, encompassing more than 3,000 square miles, lost his job.
The guy who was supposedly going to give me the beating probably never even knew about the threat, until he read about it in the newspaper. He had enough to worry about. But he recovered to go on to a stellar career.
1A press freedom confers real, practical power, if you are not too cowardly or incompetent to use it with firmness and wisdom. It has always been that way. The founders of this nation made a revolution by reliance on press freedom, before they even had a 1A to make it formal.
You and your ilk ought to stop whining and sniveling. Look to your actual powers as citizens and advocates.
Instead of publishing ceaselessly your endless tribalist demands—based on mostly nothing—learn to gather information with public importance, and to attract an audience by publishing it. Once you have accomplished that, you will be better positioned to offer advice to answer whether the 1A is an empty charade, or offers real power to constrain government.
Until then, why should anyone think about taking advice about press freedom from someone who denigrates it?
You won, Steve. Great story. However, you called the bluff of a bully. That does not in any way undermine the fact that the threat happened.
Let's change the circumstances. Instead of something that would have been easy to prove and prosecute, let's say he threatened that you would never be able to do business in this town again. Let's acknowledge that political commentators had publicly lost access to their bank accounts for political reasons(something that has happened in real life). And let's think about if you weren't a journalist with an established audience, but a minor player without the ability to realistically command a large audience.
That changes the circumstances and the balance of power from someone untouchable being given a ridiculous threat to someone quite vulnerable being given a very real threat. It is the latter case that is being discussed here.
BoH, what happened was not effectually threatening, as events proved. In fact, it was the opposite of a threat; it was a golden opportunity. I suppose if I had been extra stupid I could have treated it as a threat, and whined and cringed, and hired someone like Nieporent to protect me in court.
It did not take brilliance to understand that to do it that way would risk losing in court—Nieporent, after all, might not go down with a small town western jury any better than I would. It risked also a rare chance that publishers dream of—to build audience and credibility at no cost, while having fun.
I kept a photographer handy for a few days, in what turned out to be a vain hope of yet another such chance—to get an actual beating photo to put on the front page. Alas, hopes so extravagant are seldom fulfilled, especially not so soon after fortune has already smiled generously.
By the way, that untouchable power you attribute had cost me only a $200 cash investment, plus a few years of bootstrapping. Not many of your vulnerable guys could have been less materially favored than that. By my reckoning, that means I have been discussing both cases, not just the case of someone untouchable, as you seem to suppose.
Your suggestion is stupid. A threat doesn't cease to be a threat just because it would be unconstitutional to carry it out.
No, it isn't. Questions presented to the court are based on actual questions posed by actual facts, not based on things Stephen Lathrop wishes people were talking about.
No, Nieporent, it ceases to be a threat because if the guy threatened wields 1A-protected press freedom, and knows how to use it, he doesn't need a stupid lawyer at all. In fact, he can actually consult a team of lawyers, get their advice to rely cautiously on a dubious court case, and choose instead to ignore the lawyers, and get a better result by exercise of publishing power—which is a capsule account of what happened at the Washington Post during the Pentagon Papers affair.
For a more home-spun and modest example to the same effect, see my reply to Bellmore above.
"I don't need a lawyer because I'm right" is something only very stupid people say, in any context, let alone one where the government is coming after them.
And, no, it does not in fact cease to be a threat.
Ah, the ol’ Conservative Two-Step rears its head again. Yesterday it was “We don’t have to impeach because you can always try him for his crimes later. Which, of course, you have to impeach him to do.” And today it’s “Oh, reporting violations of the ToS is fine if the government tries to *persuade* the companies, but they can’t *coerce* them to do so. Of course, ‘persuasion’ constitutes coercion, but still.”
It is a bit funny, too, that a lot of the same people who pretend to have never seen a gangster movie in their lives when Turnip speaks are so good at sussing out the hidden meanings in other contexts.
I don't see a meaningful distinction between "persuasion" and "coercion" when it's the government doing it. Neither should be allowed.
See Prof. Volokh’s post on this:
https://reason.com/volokh/2024/03/19/murthy-v-missouri-and-government-urging-platforms-to-restrict-speech/
I don’t see a meaningful distinction between “persuasion” and “coercion” when it’s the government doing it. Neither should be allowed.
Well, you're in good company. This was essentially the position of the Louisiana attorney at oral arguments.
He was utterly destroyed. It was maybe the most brutal annihilation of a Supreme Court advocate I've ever seen the justices undertake.
Destroyed by whom? The three worthless shrieking women?
So it’s OK for the White House press office to make Facebook an offer it can’t refuse?
Do you think Karine Jean-Pierre has the ability to cut off a horse's head?
Well, you can always say 'You have to be a Reason subscriber --- sorry, I meant Biden subscriber,to actually make your opinion public" only persuading.
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