The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Supreme Court Rules for Trump in Section 3 Disqualification Case

Today's unanimous per curiam Supreme Court decision in Trump v. Anderson overturns the Colorado Supreme Court ruling disqualifying Donald Trump from the presidency under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. It does so on the ground that Section 3 is not "self-executing." Thus, only Congress, through special legislation, has the power to enact legislation specifying which people are to be disqualified and under what procedures. This outcome was predictable based on the oral argument. But it is nonetheless badly wrong.
Section 3 states that "No person" can hold any state or federal office if they had previously been "a member of Congress, or… an officer of the United States" or a state official, and then "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
Under the Court's reasoning only Congress, through special legislation, has the power to enact legislation specifying which people are to be disqualified and under what procedures - at least when it comes to candidates for federal office, and officials holding those offices. The majority claims that Congress' Section 5 power to enact "appropriate" legislation enforcing the Fourteenth Amendment is the exclusive mode of enforcing Section 3.
There are multiple flaws in the Court's reasoning. Start with the fact that there is no good reason to believe that Section 5 is the exclusive mode of enforcing Section 3. As the Colorado Supreme Court pointed out in its ruling, Section 5 allows Congress to enforce not just Section 3, but every other part of the Fourteenth Amendment, including its protections against racial and ethnic discrimination, the Due Process Clause, and more. All these other provisions are considered to be self-executing, under longstanding Supreme Court precedent. Thus, state governments and federal courts can enforce these provisions even in the absence of federal Section 5 enforcement legislation. Otherwise, as the Colorado Supreme Court notes, "Congress could nullify them by simply not passing enacting legislation." Why should Section 3 be any different? Today's Supreme Court decision doesn't give us any good answer to that question.
The Supreme Court ruling also notes, following longstanding precedent, that Congress' Section 5 power is "remedial" in nature: it must be "congruent and proportional" to violations of the Amendment it is intended to remedy. If Section 5 legislation is supposed to be remedial - including when it comes to enforcing Section 3 - that implies someone else - state governments and federal courts - has the initial responsibility for ensuring compliance with Section 3. The role of Section 5 is to remedy violations of that duty.
The per curiam opinion emphasizes the need for uniformity in determining eligibility for federal office, and argues that states lack the power to make such determinations:
Because federal officers "'owe their existence and functions to the united voice of the whole, not of a portion, of the people,' " powers over their election and qualifications must be specifically "delegated to, rather than reserved by, the States." U. S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton, 514 U. S. 779, 803–804 (1995)…. But nothing in the Constitution delegates to the States any power to enforce Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates.
This argument ignores the longstanding role of states in enforcing and adjudicating other constitutional qualifications for candidates for federal office, such as the requirements that the president must be 35 years old, and a "natural born" citizen of the United States. In 2016, there was litigation in multiple states over claims brought by Trump supporters to the effect that Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, his chief rival for the GOP presidential nomination, was not a "natural born" citizen. State courts in Pennsylvania and New Jersey ruled that Cruz was eligible. But no one doubted that they had the authority to adjudicate the issue.
In a 2012 decision written when he was a lower court judge on the US Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch upheld Colorado state officials' decision to bar from the ballot a would-be presidential candidate who was clearly not a natural born citizen. Then-Judge Gorsuch wrote that "a state's legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office." This reasoning applies to Section 3 just as readily as to the Natural Born Citizen Clause.
The main motive for the Court's decision may be the fear that letting states adjudicate Section 3 disqualifications will, lead to a "patchwork" of conflicting procedures and determinations. On top of that, there is fear that partisan state officials will seek to disqualify opposing-party candidates for specious reasons.
These are legitimate concerns. But, for reasons outlined in my commentary on the oral argument, they are overblown:
If state officials or state courts reach unsound or contradictory legal conclusions about the meaning of Section 3 (e.g.—by adopting overbroad definitions of what qualifies as an "insurrection"), their determinations could be reviewed in federal court, and the Supreme Court could impose a uniform definition of the terms in question. Indeed, it could do so in this very case! Non-uniform interpretations of provisions of the federal Constitution by state and lower federal courts can occur in many contexts. Settling such issues is one of the reasons why we have a Supreme Court that can be the final arbiter of federal constitutional questions.
Conflicting legal and factual determinations about candidate eligibility for office can also arise with respect to other constitutional qualifications for the presidency. For example, there might be disputes over the accuracy or validity of a candidate's birth certificate (recall "birtherist" claims that Barack Obama wasn't really bon in the United States, and that his birth certificate was fake).
The possibility of divergent conclusions on such issues is an unavoidable aspect of a system in which control over elections for federal offices is largely left to individual states, rather than reserved to a federal government agency. Perhaps the Framers of the Constitution made a mistake in setting up that system. Maybe it would be better if we had a national agency administering all elections for federal office, like Elections Canada, which fulfills that function in our neighbor to the north.
But the framers chose otherwise. As the per curiam opinion recognizes,"the Elections and Electors Clauses… authorize States to conduct and regulate congressional and Presidential elections, respectively. See Art. I, §4, cl. 1; Art. II, §1, cl. 2." That gives state governments initial authority (subject to federal judicial review) to enforce other constitutionally required qualifications for federal office. Section 3 is no different.
Concerns about a potential "patchwork" of conflicting state rulings are ultimately policy objections to the Constitution's decentralized state-by-state scheme of election administration. As the conservative justices (rightly) love to remind us in other contexts, courts are not permitted to second-guess policy determinations that are under the authority of other branches of government or - as in this case - the framers and ratifiers of the Constitution.
While today's Supreme Court opinion is unanimous, it's notable that both Justice Amy Coney Barrett (writing for herself alone) and the three liberal justices (in a joint opinion) wrote concurrences that seem to reject or at least call into question much of the majority's reasoning. I will likely have more to say about these opinions later.
By focusing exclusively on the self-execution issue, the Court left for another day all the other arguments at stake in the Trump case, such as whether the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol qualifies as an "insurrection," whether Trump "engaged" in it (the claim that he didn't strikes me as the best argument for his side of the case), whether Trump received adequate due process, and whether the president is an "officer of the United States" covered by Section 3. The justices likely hope they can avoid ever having to decide these questions!
The one good aspect of today's ruling is that it eliminates nearly all remaining uncertainty about whether Trump can assume the presidency if he wins the 2024 election. By holding that Section 5 enforcement legislation is the sole mechanism by which federal office-holders can be disqualified, the decision forestalls such potential scenarios as a Democratic Congress refusing to certify Trump's election. In theory, Congress could enact new enforcement legislation between now and January 20, 2025 (when Trump would take office, should he win). But that is incredibly unlikely.
The price of certainty is that Section 3 is largely neutered with respect to federal office-holders. Unless and until Congress enacts new Section 5 enforcement legislation, former officeholders who engaged in insurrection will be mostly free to return to power, and try their hand at subverting democracy again.
Perhaps political norms will keep that from happening. But if norms were that effective, Trump probably would never have been elected to office in the first place, and he certainly would not once more be a leading candidate for the presidency today.
Finally, I should acknowledge an error I made in gauging what the Supreme Court was likely to do in this case. At an academic conference on Section 3 held at the University of Minnesota in October 2023, I said that if this issue came to the Supreme Court, there would be a 50-50 chance of a ruling against Trump. It's now obvious I seriously overestimated the likelihood of such a result, an error likely caused by underestimation the justices' concerns about the potential dangers of a "patchwork" of divergent state rulings on disqualification. When commentators err, they should acknowledge their mistakes, not try to bury them and hope everyone forgets. This is my acknowledgement.
NOTE: I will have more to say about the ruling in an article likely to be published within the next few days.
UPDATE: I should perhaps note I filed an amicus brief in the case, which addressed an issue largely left unaddressed by today's decision: whether a criminal conviction for insurrection is a required prerequisite for Section 3 disqualification.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Ilya the Lesser: I was wrong, but that 9-0 SCOTUS vote was even wronger! 🙂
Keep living up to that moniker, professor.
A day where Ilya is wrong is usually a good day.
I think it's day that ends in 'y'
Engage the substance of his remarks. Why is sec 3 the only section that is not self-executing? Where are the originalists and textualists at now? Alito worrying about the political ramifications of a decision upholding CO is the last thing he personally should worry about - unless their originalism or textualism is only applicable when its convenient. LEGAL HACKS abandoning their own judicial philosophies to reach a result is not a good look.
I haven't read them yet; curious if Gorsuch has anything to say here. Did he reverse himself and say he is wrong in Hassan? Oh wait...its per curium...guess we won't know.
If Ilya the Lesser actually had substance in his argument, instead of a raging case of TDS, it could be engaged. Alas, that is not to be.
I'm not sure if your own (pro-Trump) TDS is any more laudable.
This decision illustrates the accuracy of Justice Robert Jackson's observation about the nature of SCOTUS. "We are not final because we are infallible, but we are infallible only because we are final." Brown v. Allen, 344 U.S. 443, 540 (1953) (Jackson, J., concurring in result).
I don't see that the Court considered what effect its crabbed reading of the Fourteenth Amendment, § 5 would have if applied in a similar fashion to the rights protected by § 1 of the amendment.
For example, no provision of 42 U.S.C. § 1983 expressly authorizes state courts to entertain civil rights actions brought pursuant to that statute. State courts, however, do routinely entertain such suits.
Will civil damages actions for deprivation of equal protection or for denial of procedural due process now have to be brought exclusively in federal district court?
The Court reasoned that no congressional authorization is needed for a state court to enforce a limitation on state authority. But, such approval is needed for a state court to expand state authority.
But it's really weird to call a state deciding who should be on state ballots expanding state authority.
SCOTUS didn't think it is weird when the state ballot is for the presidency.
Didn't that ship sail with US Term Limits?
"The Court reasoned that no congressional authorization is needed for a state court to enforce a limitation on state authority. But, such approval is needed for a state court to expand state authority."
Some state courts did not always hear § 1983 actions. See e.g., Chamberlain v. Brown, 223 Tenn. 25, 442 S.W.2d 248 (1969), overruled by Poling v. Goins, 713 S.W.2d 305 (1986). Is the later exercise of authority by state courts there -- which expanded state authority -- inconsistent with the Fourteenth Amendment, § 5?
The later exercise was authorized by the federal statute, as interpreted by SCOTUS.
I agree.
The SCOTUS conclusion is no more convincing than many of the arguments before, during, and – I confidently predict – after, the judgement. They win because they’re the folk who decide cases, not because they’re the smartest or the rightest. If Somin disagrees with their conclusion, why shouldn’t he ?
However the SCOTUS majority decision is more convincing than the tri-Lib dissent :
In this case, the Court must decide whether Colo-
rado may keep a Presidential candidate off the ballot on the
ground that he is an oathbreaking insurrectionist and thus
disqualified from holding federal office under Section 3 of
the Fourteenth Amendment. Allowing Colorado to do so
would, we agree, create a chaotic state-by-state patchwork,
at odds with our Nation’s federalism principles. …..
and, wait for it …….
That is enough to resolve this case. !
This is the sort of unadultered lawless consequentialism that even Sarcastro might find hard to swallow. Impeach all three of ’em.
Why is "That is enough to resolve the case" consequentialist?
Er, because the conclusion that "that's all we need folks" is based entirely - and follows immediately, with no intervening legal argument, appeal to text, or precedent - upon the abhorred consequences ?
US courts don’t issue advisory opinions.
Courts customarily offer their reasons for arriving at their decision. That's why court judgements typically go on for pages and pages and do not consist of a single sentence such as "The plaintiff loses." Stating your reason is not offering an advisory opinion.
In the case of this dissent, the reason offered for their conclusion is - we don't like the consequences of concluding otherwise.
That's what makes it consequentialist.
The concurrence’s reason was it would be advisory to go beyond ruling that states cannot enforce 14.3 against presidential candidates. That holds true whether or not they were concerned about the consequences.
The concurrence’s reason for parting company from the majority was that they thought the majority was going beyond what was strictly necessary to decide the case.
But that was not their reason for concluding that Section 3 cannot be enforced against Presidential candidates, by the states. The latter is their conclusion in the case. For which they offer the reason – the consequences would be bad and that’s all we need to decide the case.
Indeed, the reason for concluding Section 3 cannot be enforced against presidential candidates by the states is consequentialist. But, that's the opinion off all nine justices.
No. The concurrence states explicitly that the consequences (patchwork etc) are sufficient in themselves to arrive at the conclusion.
The majority offers all sorts of reasons besides consequences. And they don’t even mention consequences until they’ve had a good canter through their other reasons.
The stabs at anything but consequences from the majority opinion fall as flat as dish water.
You may not think much of the stabs, but there are stabs. Thus the majority does not state that the consequences are sufficient justification for their decision. The concurrence does state that, explicitly and unashamedly.
Please quote from the majority opinion their non-consequentialist justifications.
Section 3 works by imposing on certain individuals a pre-
ventive and severe penalty—disqualification from holding
a wide array of offices—rather than by granting rights to
all. It is therefore necessary, as Chief Justice Chase con-
cluded and the Colorado Supreme Court itself recognized,
to “ ‘ascertain[ ] what particular individuals are embraced’ ”
by the provision. App. to Pet. for Cert. 53a (quoting Grif-
fin’s Case, 11 F. Cas. 7, 26 (No. 5,815) (CC Va. 1869) (Chase,
Circuit Justice)). Chase went on to explain that “[t]o accom-
plish this ascertainment and ensure effective results, pro-
ceedings, evidence, decisions, and enforcements of deci-
sions, more or less formal, are indispensable.” Id., at 26.
For its part, the Colorado Supreme Court also concluded
that there must be some kind of “determination” that Sec-
tion 3 applies to a particular person “before the disqualifi-
cation holds meaning.” App. to Pet. for Cert. 53a.
The Constitution empowers Congress to prescribe how
those determinations should be made. The relevant provi-
sion is Section 5, which enables Congress, subject of course
to judicial review, to pass “appropriate legislation” to “en-
force” the Fourteenth Amendment. See City of Boerne v.
Flores, 521 U. S. 507, 536 (1997).
So we have :
1. logical reasoning from the fact that the provision disqualifies people, to the conclusion that a procedure is necessary to determine which individuals are disqualified
2. the identification of a constitutional provision identifing who is granted power to establish a procedure
3. references to precedent
Thus – the provision implies that there must be a procedure, the text states who is empowered to establish it, and here’s a bunch of precedent for those conclusions.
None of this is consequentialist.
You may believe that this is just a paint job, and really they’re just camouflaging an appeal to consequences alone. And maybe you’re right. But they certainly don’t fess up to that.
But the concurrence does fess up to that. And as you know, I’m sure, it’s way easier to get a conviction if the defendant pleads guilty.
.
The text does not state that Congress has the exclusive power. The Court concluded Congress does for federal, but not state and local offices. The quoted precedent does not support that distinction.
It is a camouflage and the concurrence gets kudos for being honest.
"Honestly" lawless judging.
It's the rule of law, Jim, but not as we know it.
I should add a consequentialist point of my own.
Which judge is more of a scoundrel - the one who slyly retrofits his "legal analyis" to the conclusion he wishes to reach, whether that is based on consequences or whatever; or the one who openly and shamelessly avows his direct path from consequences to decision ?
Well morally, probably it's judge 1 - he has two sins to judge 2's one.
But as far as the public is concerned, in terms of consequences, it's judge 2 who is the more dangerous. For judge 1's capacity for shame - ie the reason he tries to hide what he's doing - is a constraint on his lawlessness. By no means a perfect one, to be sure, but it's there. Thus we are likely to get less lawlessness from a judge with a capacity for shame, than one who is shameless about it.
Hypocrisy is the homage that vice plays to virtue. If you are a hypocrite, on some days you will eschew vice, not because you are a good guy, but from fear of exposure.
As I wrote on the open thread, if I were the Colorado Secretary of State, I would sue Donald Trump in United States District Court in Denver under 28 U.S.C. § 2201 for declaratory judgment as to whether Trump has engaged in insurrection after having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution.
Are there any other felonies you think people are subject to being penalized for as a result of a declaratory judgement, rather than a criminal trial?
Disqualification from holding office under § 3 is not a criminal penalty, Brett. Unlike disqualification under 18 U.S.C. § 2383, it is a remedy akin to occupational debarment, which is civil in nature. See Hudson v. United States, 522 U.S. 93 (1997).
You know what? The Supreme court apparently disagrees with you.
“Section 3 works by imposing on certain individuals a preventive and severe penalty—disqualification from holding a wide array of offices—rather than by granting rights to all.” See Trump v Anderson, (2024)
The opinion says nothing like your take that this is serious and so only criminal due process will do.
It spends more time on impracticability, which seems the right take to me.
No, Brett. That most assuredly does not say that the penalty is criminal in nature. There are typically seven factors, derived from Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez, 372 U.S. 144, 168-169 (1963), that go into analyzing whether a penalty or sanction is civil or criminal in nature. The Supreme Court has not done that analysis regarding the disability created by the Fourteenth Amendment, § 3.
KvM-M explicitly goes into how losing the rights of citizenship is one of the harshest penalties that can be applied to someone. Running for office is explicitly a right enshrined as available to every US citizen, naturalized or otherwise, with the office of the President being further guaranteed only to a natural-born US citizen. Indeed, not even premeditated murder bars one from doing so even while still incarcerated. The idea then that the penalty in question would not be criminal in nature is utterly farcical.
Uh, no. “The right to run for office is not a ‘fundamental’ right.” Plante v. Gonzalez, 575 F.2d 1119, 1126 (5th Cir. 1978). “[T]here is neither any ‘fundamental right to run for public office,’ . . . nor any right ‘to use the ballot itself to send a particularized message'”. Lindsay v. Bowen, 750 F.3d 1061, 1063-1964 (9th Cir. 2014) [citations omitted].
Do you see the word "criminal" anywhere in your quote?
Do you see the word “penalty”? Because I do.
It IS a criminal penalty, per the Supreme court, because the federal insurrection law is a criminal law, and it is the enabling legislation for Section 3 per the Supreme court.
Congress has the option of making it a civil penalty. They are not presently exercising it.
It IS a criminal penalty, per the Supreme court, because the federal insurrection law is a criminal law
And yet, they didn't say criminal penalty.
They surely know the word. And understand the implications if they said it.
They chose not to make that implication.
This is a loss to your nonsense, as everyone told you it was.
Section 2383 imposes a criminal penalty. A14S3 does not. Not sure why you can't grasp the difference. They're different provisions of different bodies of law covering different people doing different things.
As Upton Sinclair said, it’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
Similarly it's difficult to get a commenter like Brett (or his wannabees) to understand something when his identity depends on his not understanding it.
As somebody who doesn't understand this, I did a pretty good job of predicting how the Court would rule. I think perhaps I'm not the one determined not to understand what's going on here.
Congress could have made the disqualification a civil penalty. They in fact DID make it a civil penalty, up to 1948. It is, at present, a criminal penalty. At present, you need to criminally convict Trump of insurrection in order to invoke it.
This is entirely a legislative choice. At least in my opinion. I caught some impression from the majority on the Court that they might frown on Congress setting the bar too low.
The Supreme Court likely didn’t address this directly, because they didn’t want to get mired down in Due Process requirements. The problem is that the amount of Due Process provided by CO was insufficient. The CO SC allowed what would normally be inadmissible Hearsay, in the form of a Congressional Report written by a committee completely appointed by the House Speaker, with no members appointed by the Minority leadership. Which gave the plaintiffs admission of testimony that was not subject to cross examination, and provided the token defendants no avenue to call competing witnesses. The CO SC reasoned that the Trump Electors had not been named, and had no compelling interest in such. But CJ Roberts has suggested that you need to look deeper, and in this case Trump and the 75 or so million people likely voting for him very likely do have a compelling interest on whether Trump is on the ballot. So, a Beyond a Reasonable Doubt criminal standard may be a bit to high a standard, but likely Preponderance of (minimal) Evidence is probably too low a burden of proof. Where should they have drawn the line? They very likely weren’t going to get 9 votes for anything there.
Uh, not even Donald Trump's briefs claimed that he was denied procedural due process.
That is an interesting approach. How does that work, though?
For a declaratory judgment, what evidence is required? What's the standard...beyond reasonable doubt?
The Declaratory Judgment Act, 28 U.S.C. § 2201, provides that a district court may "declare the rights . . . of any interested party . . . whether or not further relief is or could be sought." The availability of declaratory relief depends on whether there is a live dispute between the parties, and a request for declaratory relief may be considered independently of whether other forms of relief are appropriate. Powell v. McCormack, 395 U.S. 486, 517-518 (1969).
The trial would be conducted according to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. The trial court is authorized, but not required, to empanel an advisory jury to try any issue(s) under Rule 39(c)(1). The court may order a speedy hearing of a declaratory-judgment action per Rule 57. The burden of proof would be on the plaintiff to show entitlement to relief by a preponderance of evidence. Appeal as of right to the Court of Appeals from final judgment is available to either party.
NG, do you really want declaratory judgment, in this instance?
Is that a good idea?
It seems to me that doing that almost guarantees a trip back to SCOTUS via that 'rocket docket' we read so much about, heh. I don't know how well received that would be with SCOTUS. But I think very poorly, especially by Justice Barrett.
I know you're not a fan of Justice Barrett, but I think in this case she identified a significant issue (in her concurrence, and her questioning during oral argument); different states, their different evidence standards, and different guilt standards. I also appreciated her desire to circumscribe the judgment of SCOTUS more narrowly.
I was hoping that SCOTUS would quickly issue a 9-0 per curiam opinion; I was not disappointed.
Any problem of different states, different evidence standards, and different guilt standards would not apply to a declaratory judgment action in federal district court. In that Donald Trump has a full and fair opportunity to litigate his defense(s), a ruling adverse to him in one federal district would likely have nonmutual offensive collateral estoppel effect as to Trump if and when he is sued in other districts. See Parklane Hosiery Company v. Shore, 439 U.S. 322, 332-333 (1979). (Collateral estoppel is one of the more difficult aspects of first year civil procedure.)
"Any problem of different states, different evidence standards, and different guilt standards would not apply to a declaratory judgment action in federal district court. In that Donald Trump has a full and fair opportunity to litigate his defense(s), a ruling adverse to him in one federal district would likely have nonmutual offensive collateral estoppel effect as to Trump ...."
That is not correct, for a multitude of obvious reasons.
Even assuming full opportunity to litigate the issue in the first case, it is black letter law that collateral estoppel "may be defeated by shifts in the burden of persuasion or by changes in the degree of persuasion required.” 18 Wright & Miller, Federal Practice & Procedure § 4422. See also Restatement (2d) Judgments § 28, comment f. And that's even if we're talking about mere mutual, instead of nonmutual, collateral estoppel.
For nonmutual preclusion (like you're arguing would "likely" apply) there are even greater concerns, which the Supreme Court specifically acknowledged in Parklane Hosiery -- as you should be well aware of since you're relying on and quoting that case as supposedly knockdown authority for your position. But you don't know this because you haven't bothered to research it.
In fact, the situation you posit--of a declaratory action filed by only one of fifty states raising potential nonmutual preclusion against the candidate in 49 other states--almost precisely fits the canonical fact pattern Professor Brainerd Currie raised in his seminal article about the potential unfairness of nonmutual collateral estoppel over 65 years ago. Maybe if you were a boomer you'd know that. In Currie's classic hypothetical a train wreck injures 100 people, and each one files a separate liability suit against the railroad. How should nonmutual preclusion apply to factfinding in such a situation? Currie's analysis remains directly relevant today:
“Suppose Railroad won the first five cases, all because the fact-finder concluded that Railroad was not negligent. Now P-6 wins, based upon of a finding that Railroad was negligent. If we reject mutuality, what is to stop P-7 through P-100 from taking advantage of P-6’s victory by asserting issue preclusion in their (individual or class) case(s)? Here, the prospect of nonmutual offensive preclusion would do more than establish Railroad’s liability on the merits of 93 claims. It could threaten the integrity of the judicial system by giving determinative effect to what obviously was an aberrational result. Without some limitation on the use of nonmutual preclusion, then, defendants would be in an untenable position. Losing a single case would subject them to liability to each plaintiff in the queue, while avoiding liability would require them to litigate and win 100 out of 100 cases. In an effort to moderate this harsh asymmetry, the Supreme Court was careful in Parklane Hosiery Co. v. Shore, to permit nonmutual offensive issue preclusion only when it would be ‘fair.’ One factor that would indicate unfairness is inconsistent findings in different but factually similar cases."
Brainerd Currie, Mutuality of Collateral Estoppel: Limits of the Bernhard Doctrine, 9 STAN. L. REV . 281, 289–96 (1957) (paragraph breaks omitted).
In the situation we are looking at here, a proposed declaratory judgment action by one state based on A14S3, it is utterly implausible that it would be found to be "fair" in the Parklane Hosiery sense to the other states' voters for declaratory suit #1, filed by one state, to raise nonmutual collateral estoppel against the candidate in the remaining 49 states. It's remarkable that you think for a moment otherwise.
Still convinced that all of the above is somehow beside the point or old law or distinguishable and that your ballot-blocking plan will work? I haven't even gotten to the black-letter law that declaratory actions, as a general rule, don't raise collateral estoppel. See, for example, Moore’s Federal Practice § 131.24[3]. Is it necessary to go on?
Well that's the route the dissenting concurrence seems to be advocating, but they acknowledge the controlling opinion forecloses that option:
"ruling out enforcement under general federal statutes requiring the government to comply with the law. By resolving these and other questions, the majority attempts to insulate all alleged insurrectionists from future challenges to their holding federal office."
Why keep beating your head against a closed and locked door?
If Trump is guilty of Insurrection then why not charge him and get a conviction?
I think the answer is clear, no one really thinks the evidence is there to charge him and convict him. After all even the petitioners said their case rested on the ellipse speech which the undisputed facts show did not trigger the Capitol breech, which started 17 minutes before Trump closed the speech with the "fight like hell" exhortation. And the crowd that heard the speech would have been Johnny come lately's to the riot.
Here is the entries from 1:30pm from the Wikipedia timeline:
-Capitol Police are overwhelmed and retreat up the steps of the Capitol.[165] Lawmakers see the police in the halls.
-Large numbers of Trump supporters march from the Ellipse 1.5 miles down Pennsylvania Avenue toward the Capitol. Lawmakers watch their approach on online videos.
There is clear evidence that the people who heard Trumps speech are not the people who started the riot, which means there isn't even probable cause to charge Trump with inciting the Insurrection.
As I wrote on the open thread, with due respect for Justice Jackson, I don’t think so. The determination of facts necessary for disqualification would be made by a federal district court, which would preserve the state/federal dichotomy that the Court is concerned about. The trial would be conducted according to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. A ruling against Trump would have preclusive effect in any other federal court, so there would not be a patchwork of Trump appearing on the ballot in some states but not in others. Appeal as of right would be to the U.S. Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals, with the possibility of SCOTUS review by certiorari.
Such a trial in federal court would alleviate the concerns that the per curiam opinion expressed.
I won't rule out some Hawaiian judge entertaining such a process, but the majority opinion is clear, whether you can see it or not, section 3 can only be enforced by a process legislated by Congress.
But am I wrong in inferring that you agree that there is almost no chance Trump could be convicted of 2383 based on the publicly known evidence?
Kazinski, who on earth do you think enacted 28 U.S.C. § 2201? (Hint: it begins with a capital c and ends with double esses.)
Thank you for asking if your inference regarding my assessment of § 2383 is wrong. I appreciate that. It could not be more wrong.
SCOTUS assiduously avoided the question of whether Donald Trump engaged in insurrection. There is more than ample evidence that he did. Both the District Court in Denver and the Supreme Court of Colorado characterized the evidence of Trump's engagement in insurrection to be clear and convincing. Based on that evidence, which is overwhelming, a jury could easily find Trump guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of violating § 2383.
So overwhelming that Jack Smith didn't bother to charge him with insurrection.
Stop embarrassing yourself. This is fucking sad...
Jack Smith knows what kind of case he plans to try. I decline to speculate on his reasons for charging the offenses that he has charged.
That having been said, I would observe that many of the offenses Donald Trump is charged with carry maximum penalties of incarceration twice as long as that provided for insurrection. Trump is 77 years old. Even if an insurrection charge were added and Trump were sentenced consecutively, the chance of his actually serving a day on the insurrection sentence is infinitesimal.
Adding an insurrection charge would broaden the scope and complexity of discovery and other pretrial proceedings. It would lengthen the duration jury trial, perhaps considerably. The injection of additional issues would (marginally) increase the chances of Trump being granted bail pending appeal pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 3143(b).
As I said, I don't claim to know what Jack Smith is thinking. But each of the reasons for not charging insurrection is plausible.
Plausible unless you want him DQ'd under A14S3.
Mulched, I surmise that Jack Smith (who knows a thing or two about prosecuting tyrants) wants to convict Donald Trump and send him to prison for what in all likelihood will be the rest of his natural life. Disqualification from running for office is small potatoes compared to that.
"SCOTUS assiduously avoided the question of whether Donald Trump engaged in insurrection. There is more than ample evidence that he did."
If that's your value judgment, then don't vote for him. But it isn't my judgment.
One of you two has been right about this whole thing, and it ain't the one with the JD.
The per curiam opinion in this case forecloses that approach.
"The per curiam opinion in this case forecloses that approach."
I don't think so. Congress enacted 28 U.S.C. § 2201, which vitiates the state/federal dichotomy which is central to the per curiam opinion. By its own terms the provisions of § 2201 apply "whether or not further relief is or could be sought", which would include other remedies which could be sought in other proceedings.
The nut graph of the opinion appears at page 6:
To be sure, there is dictum at page 11, "Neither we nor the respondents are aware of any other legislation by Congress to enforce Section 3." The Court did not opine definitively that no other such Congressional legislation exits. (The Respondents' brief did not discuss 28 U.S.C. § 2201.)
I will bet a million farms that 28 U.S.C. § 2201 will not be interpreted as Section 3 enforcing legislation. Moreover, no one will file a lawsuit claiming it is because they know it is a waste of time.
SCOTUS chose this path because they wanted to avoid this case, now and forever.
There has to be an actual case or controversy to sue in federal court, i.e., the result has to affect someone's rights. Since the SC has declared that the Colorado SOS has no rights no matter the answer to the question, there is no case or controversy, so no federal jurisdiction.
The Tenth Circuit has opined, per then Judge Neil Gorsuch, that "a state's legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office." Hassan v. Colorado, 495 F. App'x 947 (10th Cir. 2012). Trump v. Anderson did not overrule Hassan. Federal courts in the Tenth Circuit have a duty to harmonize the two precedents to the extent that that is possible. Whether the State of Colorado can exclude a presidential candidate whose disqualifying characteristic has been adjudicated by a federal court is accordingly a question of first impression.
You prefer Ilya The Bigot?
Not surprising.
It is truly amazing that ALL nine Justices refused to listen to Somin and his higher understanding of the law. I'm sure after reading this article they will reverse their decision and apologize to the nation for their error in thinking and misapplication of Sec 3 and the Constitution.
If you go by the actual text of Section 3, they really didn't have a lot of wiggle room. I'd have been very surprised had this not been unanimous.
Which bit of the actual text of section 3 were you thinking of?
Well when in doubt read the decision, the per curiam says its because Griffin is controling.
The dissenting concurrence says its because federal officers are a federal question, not a state question.
Pick your poison.
"per curiam says its because Griffin is controling."
No, it didn't. At all.
Which "actual text of Section 3" says that states cannot enforce it?
The part where it doesn't mention the states having the power to enforce it?
It doesn't mention anything about enforcement. Because it's self-executing. Just like, say, section 1 of the 13th amendment.
The self-executing theory about the 14th Amendment was put to bed today. It was tucked in all night and tightly, then suffocated by a pillow by nine Supreme Court Justices.
As the Court said today:
The respondents nonetheless maintain that States may enforce Section 3 against candidates for federal office. But the text of the Fourteenth Amendment, on its face, does not affirmatively delegate such a power to the States. The terms of the Amendment speak only to enforcement by Congress, which enjoys power to enforce the Amendment through legislation pursuant to Section 5.
I hereby dub the self-execution theory the "Air Bud Theory of the 14th Amendment."
What you should instead be thinking about is how the 13th and 15th amendments' "self-executing" provisions needs to be buttressed through actual legislation, instead of trying to convince folks that the Air Bud Theory still works.
The majority opinion is careful not to use the term “self-executing.”
The argument is (attempting to be) more subtle, especially since we know that states can enforce Section 3 relative to state offices, and even Congress can enforce Section 3 in ways other than “appropriate legislation.”
It’s a little handwavey and doesn’t answer some important questions. But the critical beats are:
1. Unlike age or citizenship, Section 3 disqualification requires a “determination.”
2. States generally don’t have the power to prevent federal candidates from running for office.
3. By extension, they don’t have the power to make determinations about qualifications for federal candidates.
4. The Fourteenth Amendment grants no additional powers to the states.
5. Therefore the states can’t make the determination that Section 3 disqualifies a federal candidate.
Then the whole thing is justified by a parade of horribles involving patchworks and bad-faith states… which is really shocking to hear from the Republicans, who so recently were so enamored with the Independent State Legislature malarkey. But whatever. It’s politics.
And all the state laws that require anyone filing for any office to meet all the qualifications for holding that office? It's generally been accepted that states have the authority to manage their own ballots insofar as determining whether each candidate filing for federal office meets Article I/II qualifications. This opinion doesn't directly address that, but it implies that in the absence of a congressional order a state would have to put any teenaged, non-citizen filer on the ballot.
So birther states can keep Obama off because they wish it and determine it?
That’s what point #1 is meant to address.
To be clear, I think all these points are pretty sketchy. I just think it’s the best they could come up with as an argument that has a superficial semblance of logic to it.
I also think that the fact that it doesn’t really hang together is why the majority chose this kitchen-sink approach where they scraped together all the various fragments of different incomplete arguments into one pile and called it good, which is what the womenfolk objected to.
It is the combination of all the reasons set forth in this opinion — not, as some of our colleagues would have it, just one particular rationale — that resolves this case.
That’s a bizarre thing for an opinion to say! It basically admits that none of the “rationales” really work, but if you take the sheer weight of all the bad arguments thrown together, you get a good argument…?
This
Maybe not, but they ought to have the power to determine the conditions on which the names of federal candidates appear on the ballot in those states.
I think that very much depends on the specifics. Effectively keeping a candidate (or his Electors) off the ballot? No. That was one of the facets of the Per Curium opinion. Order on the ballot? Probably.
The self-executing theory about the 14th Amendment was put to bed today
Not at all.
You would have had a point if you said:
The self-executing theory was put to bed only as to Section 3 and only as Section 3 is being invoked with respect to federal officeholders/candidates.
Because an important textual problem with the opinion is that it has no textual or original public meaning method to differentiate established law, further affirmed in this per curiam opinion, that the 14th is self-executing in every other respect.
The main reason they relied on for treating Section 5 differently, despite identical textual language (Section 5 doesn’t read differently after reading only Section 3 versus reading it after any of the other sections) is that it would be chaotic to have the matter decided differently in various states, including different evidentiary standards, etc.
This is anything but a textualist/originalist decision. It’s an example of hard cases make bad law. Most of us were of the opinion that disqualifying Trump was probably not best for the nation right now, particularly not just in a few states. The problem is you kind of have to ignore the literal meaning of the text which has been applied as written with respect to every section other than Section 3, so they cobbled together a bunch of half-ass reasons to paper over there is no textual hook for the “right” result.
Self-executing?
So why can not the military enforce it if it is so self-executing?
It should, in the sense of refusing to obey orders given by someone who purports to be president but isn't, because they are ineligible.
I don't recall any member of the armed forces risking a court martial to test whether Barack Obama was a natural born citizen. That was not their hill to die on.
They did. Orly Taitz represented several soldiers who refused to obey deployment orders because Obama was born in Kenya. Here's the first example of such I found in a google:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/soldier-challenges-deployment-citing-obamas-birth/
I am aware of Orly Taitz's crusade, but the military personnel were civil plaintiffs seeking prospective relief. I don't recall any who actually disobeyed orders and raised their qualms about Obama's birthplace as a defense in a court martial.
It doesn't mention the states not having the power to enforce it, either.
And, to reiterate what others have said: nothing in the constitution says that the states have the power to enforce any qualifications for president. If a 12-year old Swedish raccoon that has only 4 signatures on its candidacy petition wants to be on the ballot, what authority under your logic does a state have to say "No?"
It doesn’t mention the states not having the power to enforce it, either.
It doesn't say I, as a private citizen don't have the power to enforce Section 3 either, but no serious person thinks that individuals can enforce it.
It doesn't say that corporations can't enforce it, but no one thinks that. It doesn't say that foreign countries can't enforce it. There's an infinitely long list of things that can't enforce the 14th Amendment.
But there is one that's actually there: Congress.
What the "self-execution" argument really is laid bare: the "Air Bud" theory of the 14th Amendment.
I once told the VC commentariat that if you picked ten random people on the street and showed them Section 5, all of them would say that it was Congress and no one else that would enforce it. Why? Because no one thinks that the "Air Bud" rules are good ideas. It's fine as a plot device in a children's movie, but fails as a serious constitutional theory for an amendment.
I look forward to your next reply, as I've been working on my comeback for a week now.
Even the opinion mentions the Electors Clause as the potential vehicle for state power. That’s what distinguishes the states from private citizens and corporations, neither of whom are entrusted with running federal elections.
The court never really satisfyingly explains why the Electors Clause doesn’t confer the power to enforce Section 3 to the states but does confer the power to enforce the 22nd.
That’s what distinguishes the states from private citizens and corporations, neither of whom are entrusted with running federal elections.
That would be news to Sovereign Citizens!
(I'm joking)
The court never really satisfyingly explains why the Electors Clause doesn’t confer the power to enforce Section 3 to the states but does confer the power to enforce the 22nd.
Perhaps it's because Section 5 expressly provides enforcement power, while the 22nd Amendment does not. Perhaps that makes it a general qualification, enforceable by the states?
Well, they don't say that. In fact, they go out of their way not to say it, since Section 3 is enforceable by the states... sometimes.
Hey, I'm just spitballing.
Perhaps the 14th Amendment effectively amended the Electors Clause much as it effectively amended the ex post facto clause?
Section 3 is enforceable by the state's against state officers, because the state's don't need any federal grant of power to enforce their own ideas of qualifications against state officers. Their power in this area is plenary, subject only to any federal constitutional prohibitions.
So, they can disqualify their own officers for insurrection by any procedure they choose, just as they could do it for speeding, or lack of a GED. And justify it on the basis of section 3 or War and Peace.
Just like Congress neither needed nor waited on Section 3 to disqualify Confederates elected to Congress, because article 1 already gave them that power.
Well, like I said, the court never satisfyingly explains why the Electors Clause doesn’t confer the power to enforce Section 3 to the states but does confer the power to enforce the 22nd.
A state almost certainly has the power to refuse to appoint a particular person or persons as presidential electors for any reason they see fit.
Once the electors meet in the College and vote, there is no way for a state to withdraw the electoral vote even if one or more electors later publicly confessed to providing classified material to the Taliban or Hamas.
And between 1868 and 1917, state legislatures appointed Senators, and legislatures could refuse to appoint particular persons to the Senate for any reason, from the person being an insurrectionist to the person failing to spay or neuter his pets. But if an already-appointed Senator turned out to be an insurrectionist, there is fuck all and jack shit the legislature could do about it.
But if an already-appointed Senator turned out to be an insurrectionist, there is fuck all and jack shit the [state] legislature could do about it.
Everybody agrees with this, but somehow the majority made a big deal about it.
Like, if the Colorado Supreme Court’s ruling had explicitly referenced its plenary choice of electors, it seems like it would’ve been insulated from the majority’s logic.
Colorado State law prevents Colorado from appointing electors pledged to Trump. It also therefore requires the SoS to remove him from the ballot, so that voters don’t waste their vote on an unelectable candidate.
It seems like the Court’s opinion wouldn’t reach that logic, and that that logic is indistinguishable from what Colorado actually said. In other words, as Roberts might say if the shoe were on the other foot, it’s a tax.
That "sometimes" is against state officials. Or maybe against others if Congress authorizes it.
I think it's because 22 comes after 14. The 22nd Amendment is irrelevant. It's not that the Court fails to "satisfyingly" explain it, they never mention it for that reason.
I gotta admit, I did not anticipate seeing Trump haters advancing a version of the independent legislature theory with respect to the mechanism of choosing their electors.
The 22nd Amendment is irrelevant on the question of whether the States were implicitly empowered under the 14th Amendment to enforce Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates.
It explicitly grants Congress the right to enforce the provision under Section 5. It says nothing about the states having any such power and the Court found that it would be incongruous with that grant of specific power to Congress to allow the states to have authority with respect to federal offices. Do you want it in comic book form?
the Court found that it would be incongruous with that grant of specific power to Congress to allow the states to have authority
No they didn't. They found that it would be incongruous with unspecified "principles of federalism."
Uh, yeah, understand in context of the grant of power to Congress, if that makes you feel any better.
In other words, that’s what “incongruous’ above encapsulates. Or should I write that in all caps highlighted in red, which you seem to like?
If a birther state determined Obama was not born in the US, would that be ok?
And don't say full faith and credit to other states' records, because that's hiding behind a technicality. Further, could a state determine such records were fraudulent?
The answer is no to all of it.
If only there was some way to put that question before the US Supreme Court, in your scenario.
Maybe you should try reading the opinion first?
The brief by the bulk of Republican members of Congress (the Cruz brief) pointed out what they saw as Separation of Power issues. They were, essentially, claiming that CO was attempting to usurp their § 5 power to legislate in this realm. Their argument was that the 14th Amdt giving them power to legislate here meant that that power was denied the states.
This is just a delicious post!
Yes it is. I am savoring it.
Same here. Somin is wrong on a daily basis, and it is nice to see a 9-0 decision confirm it.
Indeed.
“…there is no good reason to believe that Section 5 is the exclusive mode…” — other than that’s what the text says.
Sec 5 applies by its terms to the WHOLE of the amendment. So we don't get equal protection unless Congress passes a statute? Is that really the argument?
I agree with you, but.
Suddenly discovering that the EP Clause also requires affirmative legislation and is not actually self-executing (despite all the contrary precedent!) is probably a feature and not a bug for some members of the Court, some commenters of this blog, and right-wing extremists everywhere.
The good reason, and sufficient reason, was what they lead off with: it's chaos if states can drop candidates off the ballot on their own absent a national concensus.
This was also the intended trick, keep in mind. Even a supporter should be wary of what the future might hold.
The recent Supreme Court ruling ignores the reality that states have been setting elibility rules for Presidential candidates in additions to the Constititional requirements listed in Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 through ballot access (or restriction) rules. These rules primarliy affect third party and independent candidates. The Supreme Court has ignored challenges to these restrictions many times in the past and allowed states to keep typically onerous and compex ballot requirements for Presidential candidates that vary greatly by state.
May these moments provide solace to conservatives as better Americans continue to shape our national progress against the stale, ugly preferences of our vestigial, doomed clingers.
I'd say that what the plaintiffs in this and other such cases tried to do is pretty damn "ugly"...
Well Ilya did have the grace to write this:
"The one good aspect of today's ruling is that it eliminates nearly all remaining uncertainty about whether Trump can assume the presidency if he wins the 2024 election. By holding that Section 5 enforcement legislation is the sole mechanism by which federal office-holders can be disqualified, the decision forestalls such potential scenarios as a Democratic Congress refusing to certify Trump's election. In theory, Congress could enact new enforcement legislation between now and January 20, 2025 (when Trump would take office, should he win). But that is incredibly unlikely."
I doubt you will see Baude write anything resembling that.
Is that what you call it....grace? 🙂
Professor Baude's contributions immediately before oral argument were prodigious. And educational. Win some, lose some.
Jonathan Mitchell was the better lawyer than the both of them.
This is the first of, no doubt, several "actually all nine members of SCOTUS are wrong, because...Trump!"
Jesus Christ, dude, just take the L, it'll be less damaging than trying to concoct your way into an even dumber position.
When will right-wingers begin to take that approach to the culture war?
You dumbasses recognize your conservative cause is doomed, right? That bigotry and superstition will never make the comebacks for which you hope?
Hey look what I found!
"I wouldn’t mind seeing Judge Barrett confirmed, if only because I believe it would precipitate the installation of four new, better justices during the first half of 2021." - Rev. Kirkland, October 2020
We both thought you couldn't possibly look any more ridiculous after Roe got overturned and race preferences got gutted by a court you said would be a 7 - 6 liberal rubberstamp.
We were wrong. 🙁
ROTFLMFAO
AIDS, your entire ideology is dying. You fuckwits don't breed and are being replaced. Your superstitious nonsense about equality is over. Your bigotry against your own countrymen for harbouring essentially identical values to the hordes of illiterate illegals you want to dump into the country belies your mindless hypocrisy.
You are losing the global culture war, and you will lose the domestic one too as you are outbred by people who won't believe your bullshit.
(Are you beginning to see that it won't matter who wins in November? That your culture war will turn hot regardless?)
But it is nonetheless badly wrong.
Whine some more, loser.
Here's what Sotomayor, Kagan, and Jackson had to say about your position:
Section 3 marked the first time the Constitution placed substantive limits on a State’s authority to choose its own officials. Given that context, it would defy logic for Section 3 to give States new powers to determine who may hold the Presidency
TDS makes you stupid
One way to look at it is that the SC made a political ruling while Prof Somin reached his conclusions on legal grounds. The two are orthogonal.
Sure, because all nine Justices share the same political views.
That doesn't mean they can't agree to reach a decision on grounds of political considerations. rather than the law.
Even justices who disagree on the politics of a particular case can agree that handing this tool to states is a bad big picture idea in a "political" sense.
See, for example, all the times Grampa Ed drooled about TX turning around and trying to disqualify Biden.
Competent justices can see the long-term effects of a ruling, not just the short-term "political win" aspect.
Which would make them consequentialist and this decision consequentialist. Which the conservative majority claims to reject as a method of judicial philosophy for deciding cases before them. Except when convenient.
Its hard to deny the opinion rests at least somewhat on consequentialist grounds because it relies on Griffin as precedent, which was certainly based at least partially on those concerns.
But the majority relying on a 150 year old decision which Congress rapidly acquiesced to, and made it plain that Congress can have the last word is hardly a repudiation of conservative legal thought.
The repudiation of conservative legal thought is most acute in the context of the "patchwork" horrible:
The result could well be that a single candidate would be declared ineligible in some States, but not others, based on the same conduct (and perhaps even the same factual record).
Oh no! That sounds like... federalism? Wait, what? Suddenly the conservatives are terrified of the states exercising their control over federal elections? Their memories sure are short.
“Its hard to deny the opinion rests at least somewhat on consequentialist grounds because it relies on Griffin as precedent, which was certainly based at least partially on those concerns.”
That, Kazinski, is a flat out lie. Ctrl-f is your friend. The per curiam opinion nowhere “relies on Griffin as precedent.” The only mention therein of Griffin is at page 5, where the opinion notes that the Colorado Supreme Court had quoted a single six word phrase from Griffin.
And let me suggest strongly that you learn what "precedent" does and (more importantly) does not mean before you attempt to use it again. A ruling from a single nineteenth century judge rendered while riding circuit is not precedent in the Supreme Court of the United States.
Man up and admit you lied, Kazinski.
How about the obvious reverse - that the Court made their decision on legal grounds, but Somin, deep in his well entrenched TDS, made his on political grounds?
You could think that, but then you'd be politically and legally wrong.
I can accept SRG's hypothesis easily, because it explains the ruling well across the political/ideological spectrum of all 9 justices. Yours does not.
Somin has been rabidly anti-Trump for years.
Actually its must be the opposite to make sense. Because Illya is rabidly fascist and anti-Trump, he made his decision on political grounds. Because even the liberals on the Trump have a duty to be legal, they made theirs on legal grounds.
Bruce didn't read the opinion.
The only problem are the barn wall-sized blinders required to believe this entire effort, just one of many going back long before Jan. 6, was not a partisan attack using the power of government.
More accurately: the SC made a legal ruling while Illya reached his conclusions on political grounds.
A far better, and more credible, way to look at it is that they both reached their conclusions on political grounds.
"There are multiple flaws in the Court's reasoning."
I think I read this article before - - - - - - - - -
Atrios https://www.eschatonblog.com/2024/03/supremos.html has it right. "I'm not going to waste my beautiful mind on the reasoning because it's best we stop pretending it's ever anything other than "because we said so, and we can contradict ourselves tomorrow."" Your error, Ilya, lay in assuming the decision would be driven by the law.
Sure. Whenever right-wingers whine about modernity, the mainstream, and another loss in the culture war.
Keep importing religious illiterate third worlders by the millions and you won't have to worry about modernity or your current 'mainstream' in a generation or so.
I don't see anything in the ruling that would prevent Congress from refusing to certify the electoral vote for Trump. I don't know where you're getting that from.
You mean those great defenders of democracy in the Democrat party might try to overturn the election to save democracy? I wouldn’t put it past them.
Your resentment toward your betters, the culture war’s victors, seems profound. This is surely the blog for you.
Do you resent the pending victors of the global culture war, as your own ideology crashes and burns, guizi baizuo (鬼子 白左)?
What would their legal basis be for doing that?
I mean, sure: They could decide to do it illegally.
What would their legal basis be for doing that?
Section 3 of the 14th amendment. Are you a textualist or not?
Only when it suits his purposes.
That's why you guys like the Living Constitution...not encumbered by any principles you imagine others are violating.
"You guys?"
Let me guess, you're making some kind of moronic partisan insinuation. How clever!
I'd put my principles up against yours every day of the week, and come out ahead 7-0 every time.
Oh gee, you got me! You are definitely so much more principled than me...I can tell by that insightful retort. You sure put me in my place!
(Presuming Trump committed insurrection and working backwards to find a legal justification to disqualify him is not principled.)
"(Presuming Trump committed insurrection and working backwards to find a legal justification to disqualify him is not principled.)"
Indeed it is not. Congratulations - I imagine you thought I'd argue otherwise.
The Colorado courts relied upon evidence to form their conclusions regarding that question, as they should have.
'The Colorado courts relied upon evidence to form their conclusions regarding that question, as they should have'.
No one in the rest of the world believes this. The Colorado court clearly fashioned an ad hoc account of what constitutes an 'insurrection' to fit the result it desired. In no sense did it rely upon evidence to fashion its conception, let alone to form a conclusion that applied that conception to Trump (let alone to the events of Jan 6 more generally).
It is the stuff of a banana republic. America's reputational damage gets worse by the day. Fortunately, a unanimous Supreme Court signaled to the world that its institutions aren't a complete rot quite yet.
So, you didn't read the decision? Or just didn't understand it?
Disqualification is like many things within Congress' power: They must enact legislation to do it. The Court ruled out the electoral count act as such legislation, so it doesn't provide them with a basis for such an application.
That leaves federal insurrection law, and Congress can't simply vote that Trump is guilty. That would be a bill of attainder.
I don't see any mention of the Electoral Count Act in the opinion. And I can't think of any precedent that says that Congress's decision to certify, or not certify, electoral votes is even judicially reviewable in the first place.
It's mentioned right here "Neither we nor the respondents are aware of any other legislation by Congress to enforce Section 3."
The electoral count act is 'other legislation'
That just means that Congress hasn't issued written instructions to the state or federal executives or judiciary on how THEY should adjudicate Section 3 Disputes.
Congress doesn't need to pass a law to authorize ITSELF to adjudicate electoral vote disputes. That's inherently part of the Constitution, and of Congress's own internal rules. No law needed.
It's inherently part of the Constitution, explicitly so, for seats in Congress.
For the Presidency? They are authorized to create a statutory scheme, and have done so. It's federal insurrection law, not the electoral count act.
If members of Congress have the constitutional power to dispute states' electoral votes, then they have the constitutional power to dispute states' electoral votes because of Section 3. They don't need Section 5 to grant them that power, just like Congress doesn't need Section 5 to grant them the power not to seat a member because of Section 3, and just like the States don't need Section 5 to grant them the power to disqualify a candidate for state office because of Section 3.
If members of Congress don't have the constitutional power to dispute states' electoral votes, then the ECRA is unconstitutional.
To be fair, the ECRA was probably mostly unconstitutional anyway. I still say that past legislatures can't mandate what internal rules future legislatures will use when carrying out their duties. At best, the ECRA is more of a suggestion.
"The price of certainty is that Section 3 is largely neutered with respect to federal office-holders."
You're wrong about that, too.
You think somebody committed insurrection?
CHARGE THEM WITH IT!!!
That was not the intent of S3. But you know that.
Well, sure. If you captured them fighting for a rebel army where a state of war existed, you didn’t need to charge them criminally. An armed rebellion where the civil courts were unable to operate.
Has that condition existed presently anytime recently?
Was there a time machine involved? Because the Civil War - or rather, the hot part of the Civil war - was over in 1865 but 14A wasn't passed until 1868.
Why would anyone need a time machine? Confederate soldiers who were captured and/or paroled up through 1865 were still alive. They are exactly some of the persons originally intended to be disqualified by Section 3, without any need for a criminal trial. Because their insurrection was established by their service/capture. Everyone at the time understood that, because you can’t hold criminal trials for 100,000+ men when most of their offenses occurred in areas where civil courts were not operating. As for 1868, Baude was at least correct about one aspect of Section 3: it did override the existing constitutional prohibition on ex post facto laws.
That was one of the legal difficulties in trying to decide whether specifically Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis could be tried for treason. In what location/district did they commit their offenses? (While they briefly considered Pennsylvania because of Gettysburg, Lee’s legal exposure was curtailed by the generous parole terms Grant extended. It did not remove his disability under Section 3.)
I note that 14A did not restrict itself to the hot Civil War. That must have been intentional.
It was, however, in the context of it being obvious who was who.
Here, just a group of motivated partisan think that, and their track record of non-partisan, disinterested wielding of the investigative power of government against political opponents is poor.
Indeed, during the first impeachment, it was gleefully pointed out to me impeachment investigations had the honor of being driven by getting a political opponent qua opponent
In short, the facetious-meisters, when not legally required to maintain the fiction of disinterested concern for rule of law, gladly and loudly hooted and danced around like naked male witches trying to dupe females into stripping along with them and shakin’ it.
So you didn't bother reading my previous? That there were people still alive from the "hot Civil War" so as to be disqualified by a constitutional amendment after the war, for what they had done during the war.
Yes, the amendment ex post facto'd their insurrection, being passed after they had ceased insurrectioning. That's entirely the point, an amendment being necessary, to remove an legal defect in trying to do so via ordinary legislating, which might have been vulnerable to due process (and ex post facto) challenges.
Nobody would suggest Section 3 was primarily forward looking. It was retrospective, apparently without much consideration about the future. With the Civil War being the insurrection to end all insurrections.
In theory, Congress could enact new enforcement legislation between now and January 20, 2025 (when Trump would take office, should he win). But that is incredibly unlikely.
Why so unlikely? The electoral college creates ample opportunity for presidential results to diverge from congressional results. Both houses of Congress are closely balanced. The new Congress convenes well before Inauguration Day. During the interval between, President Biden will presumably still be in office, and capable to sign a bill into law.
If, for instance, the abortion issue delivers a wave election to the Ds in Congress, but the electoral college and fear of Biden's decrepitude combine to elect Trump, seems like congressional action to disqualify Trump before he takes office would be a near certainty—an opportunity for the Ds fresh-polished by Supreme Court pre-authorization.
I suggest the stakes on the GOP vice presidential pick just went way up. What malign fate put that decision into the hands of Donald Trump? Who could he pick so awful that Ds in congress would prefer to stick with Trump instead?
Other than that, great work, SCOTUS.
They'd have to eliminate the filibuster at the same time. But... that seems plausible.
Current betting odds are somewhere between 12%-25% chance of Dems winning BOTH the House AND the Senate, depending on whether or not we treat them as an indepedent variable of each other. The odds of the Dems winning both of those, but LOSING the Presidency are even lower. And the time between when the new congress is seated, and when the electoral votes are opened and counted, is only like 2-3 days, if I remember correctly.
Krenn, do you think it matters whether there is evidence that Trump won the electoral college, if he is prior to inauguration found constitutionally disqualified to serve as President?
By that, of course, I mean matter in a formal sense. Pretty obviously, if the nation ever gets to any such scenario, it will be entangled in a profound constitutional crisis which would likely deliver a result in no way related to formal constitutionalism.
Meanwhile, on Balkinization:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2024/03/two-other-quick-takes-on-opinion.html
"First, the majority says that each House of Congress could (and did) exclude members-elect on Section 3 grounds during Reconstruction."
Under article 1, each house could exclude members on any basis they want; They didn't need Section 3, and didn't wait for Section 3. But they have no such enumerated power in regards to the Presidency.
Not according to SCOTUS. See Powell v. McCormack.
That was about the process followed, not the basis for thinking the putative member unqualified.
Brett Bellmore: Powell v. McCormack “was about the process followed, not the basis for thinking the putative member unqualified.”
Chief Justice Warren, joined by Justices Black, Douglas, Harlan, Brennan, White and Marshall:
395 U.S. 486, 550 (1969).
Outside of Brettworld, when SCOTUS uses the phrase “we hold that”, it signals that the verbiage which follows is kind of a big deal.
I must admit I'd quickly scanned the case on my phone, and was, without realizing it, going by the lower court, which HAD held that it was a procedural quibble. (Commanding Congress to act out a charade...) So, my bad. My bad eyes, too.
But you're in no better a position here, because Powell v McCormack was decided in 1969, not 1869, so the Reconstruction Congress would hardly have felt bound by it. And their practice was quite contrary to that ruling!
Again I point out that Congress started refusing to seat Confederates BEFORE the 14th amendment. Just a raw exercise of their power to do as they wished.
Once the 14th amendment was adopted, even an anachronistic application of Powell would have allowed this, of course, as Section 3 added to the constitutional qualifications for office.
I find it fascinating that the thought that one or a few states could effectively determine a national election by removing one of the candidates would ever get a pass.
Now the waiting begins, one or more of these states will seek a new method to remove Trump from the ballot and we can expect more than one locality to just do so regardless.
I find it fascinating that the thought that one or a few states could effectively determine a national election by removing one of the candidates would ever get a pass.
I find it fascinating how many people - including Supreme Court justices - thought that that was a sensible way to summarise the idea. Last I checked, the Constitution says this:
No one state was ever going to determine a national election. If a major party candidate is ineligible, that will inevitably be decided by the Supreme Court.
So you'd feel the same if every State with a Republican in charge decided Biden's influence peddling was disqualifying and booted him off the ballot leaving less than 270 EC votes possible for him to win? Don't think so you dishonest totalitarian.
Yes. He would appeal those decisions through the courts until he got to the Supreme Court (if need be), and win. I'd only worry about totalitarianism if he appealed such nonsense to the Supreme Court and lost.
The phrase was the question asked, and they lead the written response off with how that would be chaos, and how that that was a sufficient reason all by itself.
The very idea was absurd.
How much clearer can it be?
It is fascinating that none of the legal debate I came across leading up to this case being argued at the Supreme Court identified that as a possible/likely reason.
the opinion make it seem like this was a case about a presidential election. Which it wasn't. It wasn't even a case about an election for presidential electors. This was a case about a GOP primary. The word "primary" doesn't appear once in the justification of the ruling (it appears a few times in the document in describing the posture of the case, but not in the justification itself). Really disappointing work by people supposedly at the top of their field, such a lack of careful and methodical reasoning.
given that Colorado excluded Trump from the primary, and that SCOTUS said nothing about the primary, can it really be said that SCOTUS reversed the Colorado holding?
Given that the opinion says "we reverse", I think it can be pretty easily said. And the primary process is part of the federal election process (although it really shouldn't be - taxpayer dollars and government buildings shouldn't be used to hold elections for a "party").
Right. I didn’t mean my comment to be taken as disobedience to the court. Clearly they meant to reverse and everyone should follow the rule of law. Just pointing out that the justification that they wrote doesn’t match the facts of the case in front of them. So if you were to just read the justification, you wouldn’t necessarily conclude that the Colorado ruling was reversed. I could imagine a whole section in the opinion discussing how if Colorado can’t exclude from the presidential election (you know, the one that happens in December), then they can’t exclude from the primary (I wouldn’t agree with it, but you could imagine the argument). But no attempt to even do that.
the opinion make it seem like this was a case about a presidential election. Which it wasn’t. It wasn’t even a case about an election for presidential electors. This was a case about a GOP primary.
You're asserting that primaries aren't essential parts of the presidential election process?
no, they are. I'm asserting that the primaries are not the presidential election.
I should say, they are for a party, in a state, that wants to run them. They're obviously not required, and the GOP had already said that they wouldn't use the results of the Colorado primary had this case come out the other way. Which, right there, points out that they are very different processes vs the presidential election.
If it's about an essential (as things stand) part of a presidential election, then it's about a presidential election. Your pedantry is like saying that the ability to board an airplane isn't really about being able to travel by air, because boarding isn't flying.
This was a case about a GOP primary. The word “primary” doesn’t appear once in the justification of the ruling
Primaries are an invention of political corporations. Primaries do not exist in the Constitution.
Colorado SC bigfooted the corporations internal rules on who was eligible. No mention of the courts jurisdiction. I just assumed the "GET TRUMP" amendment to the constitution was triggered.
Also note that as predicted, SCOTUS unanimously discarded—by ignoring it completely—the frivolous Josh Blackmon/Seth Barret position that Section 3 uniquely does not apply to the President, because the President is not an Officer of the United States (which was the reasoning of the first Colorado state court finding for Trump, that was overturned by the Colorado Supreme Court).
Seems likely that Josh will shortly write his own 9-0 but wrong! piece on that, just like Ilya did.
Were it only true that the officer issue was Blackman’s only argument!
Even being right for the wrong reasons, he's more right than Somin and Baude.
Largely because we haven’t rid ourselves of the Clinger Court just yet.
All nine of them are Clingers?
Are you threatening to assassinate the members of the United States Supreme Court, AIDS?
There are 5 or 10 ways scotus could have ruled for Trump. They picked one that had a 9-0 majority.
Nope. They just needed one reason to reverse. Reversing a ground where they could get a 9-0 vote, means little, if anything about other possible grounds for reversal. That’s one of the things that you learn as a 1L.
It's O.K. for Trump to order people to storm the Capitol and by every meaning of the word commit "insurrection", so long as he's sure to have representatives of blue states assassinated. That way, Congress will never activate section 3.
I guess it's a good thing then that Trump didn't order anyone to storm the Capitol.
Weird how all the people who stormed the Capitol think otherwise.
Some of the J6 defendants argued in court that they are innocent because they were just carrying out Trump's orders. The argument lost, in all cases.
It lost, as it should have, because that's not a valid criminal defense. Not because it isn't factually correct.
Right, that it wasn't factually correct, either, was irrelevant.
What other people think doesn't establish someone else's guilt. If they had "evidence", surely the DOJ would have negotiated a plea deal to have them testify against Trump, right?!?
Or maybe they just heard what they wanted to hear. "Fight like hell" doesn't meet the Brandenburg v Ohio standard for criminal culpability.
I keep waiting for the FBI to produce evidence that Trump was secretly coordinating with the Proud Boys/Oath Keepers to plan and execute the breach of the Capitol perimeter. Wake me up when they have that.
Read the emails, dumbass.
Perhaps you can direct me to them. Because it's surprising in all of this brouhaha that nobody mentions any such thing.
Or that DOJ hasn't indicted based on any such emails.
You misunderstand: I would be the first person to demand a criminal prosecution if it could be proven that Trump did what I suggested above. In fact, I would be very angry that DOJ hasn't done that, if such emails existed. So please, make me angry.
What I am not interested in is anyone's TDS.
The abstract problem here is that I can imagine no scenario where storming the Capitol gets Trump what he wanted: Pence throwing out electoral votes. As soon as you pull the trigger on the threat of violence, you destroy the legitimacy of the desired outcome. Even Trump isn't that stupid. Mobs do not proclaim a new president from the steps of the Capitol.
TDS sufferers here routinely assert that he IS that stupid.
While at the same time asserting he is a cunning genius who managed to collude with Russia in 2016 to win the election and who is also smart enough to incite an insurrection without actually leaving any evidence of his guilt.
Was it (a) advocacy (b) directed to inciting or producing (c) imminent lawless action and (d) likely to incite or produce such action?
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Sounds like it meets the Brandenburg test to me.
No, no, no, and no.
Asked and answered above. TDS is a helluva drug.
As you keep proving.
I’ve never voted for Trump. I don’t know what you’re going on about. I’ve wanted him to lose at every opportunity.
I’m just trying to find the rule of law through all this emotional lawfare. That's a symptom of TDS, confusing people standing up for the rule of law with his sycophant supporters.
(As I understand Brandenburg, contra your misrepresentation, Trump’s speech would first of all be protected because of its vagueness as to any call to specific action.)
It's protected because,
1) It's vague, and easily amenable to innocent interpretation.
2) The actions it supposedly incited began before the words that supposedly incited them.
3) The actions it supposedly incited were premeditated on the part of others, who have since been convicted for that.
David, you really need to step back and evaluate your position. Like, really, take a good hard look inside. Surely you're better than "9-0 SCOTUS is wrong" Somin. At least, you were once.
When, exactly, did he order anybody to storm the Capitol?
Is this more of those dog whistle things?
Did you ever notice that the only people who seem to hear these dog whistles are leftists?
After being so wrong so often, many people would seriously rethink things and try to be correct in the future. But narcissist ideologues can’t always leap all the hurdles they face.
Someday maybe Ilya will get there.
Ilya, the Court chose to base its ruling on this because the alternatives lead to the same result. First of all, what constitutes an insurrection is much like a free speech question. And, as a practical matter, it cannot be that one lone judge (likely cherry picked) can just decide that some set of acts constitutes an insurrection. Second, Ilya, you don't really rebut the interest of the People in a federal election--yes, there is room for a ministerial role for SoS etc., but as for what constitutes an insurrection--way way more nuanced, and while that generally doesn't matter in terms of the identity of a fact-finder, in the context of the interests of the entire country, it does, for blindingly obvious reasons.
No. These are words with meanings. We are used to a post-codification world, and what's more, a post-Model Penal Code world, so we're used to the concept of statutes that break down into elements. There are older statutes that don't break down concepts, and when statutes don't do that, courts can just open a dictionary and figure out what a word means. If there's a dispute, then it's up to SCOTUS to say what it is. But instead of doing that, they punted to Congress to take a shot at defining the word before they have to.
This reply is so dumb, it makes my head hurt.
The fundamental flaw in the decision is that the Constitution specifically delegates to states and state legislatures ALL power over the appointment of Presidential electors. The language saying this coild not be clearer. “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors…”. In looking narrowly at the 14th Amendment and ignoring the rest of the Constitution, the Supreme Court took away states’ and state legislaative law’s expressly delegated authority over elector appointment.
Chiafolo v. Washington held that directing who a states’ electors are or are not permitted to cast their ballots for is simply part of the state legislative appointment power. Any limitation on who presidential electors are permitted to cast their ballots for is an entirely extra-constitutional state-law creation.
Only by ignoring the plenary elector appointment power could the Supreme Court reach its textualky wholly unjustified conclusion that states’ only power over elector appointment is a purely ceremonial power to hold popular elections and direct their electors to cast their ballots for the popular winmer, with states and their legislatures getting no other say in the matter.
Nope--once they've committed it to a vote, then that cannot be changed during an election. See Bush v. Gore (concurring). Plus, committing it to a vote triggers the rights of voters as well.
The 2022 amended ECRA also makes that explicit: after election day, a legislature may not change the method of choosing electors (making it themselves overriding the popular vote result).
While that’s so, or rather, states can’t change the manner of appointment after elector appointment day, today is before elector appointment day. Moreover, the statute on qualifications was enacted years ago. Ms. Anderson made a pre-primary challenge. Nothing about any of this case is in any way post-election.
Again, US Term Limits v Thornton is the controlling law here. No matter how you want to dress it up, states are not allowed to add additional election qualifications for federal offices, beyond what is in the U.S. Constitution. Disqualifying according to a state determined definition of insurrection would be adding an additional qualification.
Certainly all state election officials could remove a candidate from the ballot for a criminal conviction for insurrection. They are not allowed to make any independent insurrection determination, absent congressional authorization under section 5.
It would not, in fact, be any such thing. It would be implementing the existing one.
Not according to a unanimous SCOTUS....
I missed DN’s point in the main opinion. Looks like he is making things up again.
Of course sec 3 does not mention elections. It only says a person cannot hold office. Does not bar them from running for office.
This only restates the obvious, there are lots of reasons States cant be messing with curating ballot access
ALSO. The VOTERS are perfectly capable of assessing a candidates fitness for office
The VOTERS are perfectly capable of assessing a candidates fitness for office
I would argue that, on recent evidence, voters (capitalised or not) are terrible at assessing that.
Trump apparently isn't the one person who denies losing.
No matter how you want to dress it up, states are not allowed to add additional election qualifications for federal offices, beyond what is in the U.S. Constitution.
Two other parties who can't do that:
1. Congress
2. The Supreme Court
Well, not without breaking their oaths of office, anyway.
But of course Nieporent is correct; if states did it they would be implementing the existing qualification.
Nobody sensible expected this to be a principled decision. It was always going to be a panicky dash to the emergency exit. Panicked justices make bad law.
Bush v. Gore held only that the 14th Amendment requires that every voter gets an equal say in those matters committed to the popular vote. It said nothing about what powers a legislature could reserve for itself. Here, Colorado did NOT commit Trump’s candidacy to a popular vote. It made a decision not to do so, that he wasn’t qualified to recieve the state’s electoral votes, before even a primary occurred. All citizens would be equally prohibited from voting for him. With no voters being treated unequally, and every voter being delegated the same decision-making powers, there would be no Bush v. Gore Equal Protection violation.
Can we apply that reasoning to nuke disparate impact theories.
" provisions are considered to be self-executing, under longstanding Supreme Court precedent. Thus, state governments and federal courts can enforce these provisions even in the absence of federal Section 5 enforcement legislation."
Then why did we need the AntiKlan Act, the Civil Rights Act(s), the Voting Rights Act, et cetera? Someone thought they were necessary...
Otherwise, as the Colorado Supreme Court notes, "Congress could nullify them by simply not passing enacting legislation."
Or repeal the enabling legislation that it has passed. Congress *could* repeal the Civil Rights Act -- won't, but could....
The argument that "but Congress could repeal it! Or not act! Therefore we need judges to step in!" comes from a belief in Judicial Supremacy, over the Constitution, Congress, and the People.
If Congress wanted the Courts to independently enforce the 14th Amendment without legislation, it would have said "The Judiciary shall enforce this amendment..." in Section 5.
But it didn't.
Congress can enforce- and by extension- not enforce- this amendment how it sees fit.
that's not how anything works. maybe go to law school
Well, the Supreme Court (mostly) disagrees with you. That is, indeed, how it works.
Well, maybe the Justices should all go to law school! ;-P
Again, professor, the question of whether someone is of sufficient age or a natural born citizen to qualify for the presidency are of a materially different character than whether someone has committed insurrection. It's silly to say they are the same, and therefore states are qualified to judge both.
But of course, this is where TDS kicks in, for anyone who thinks it is an objective fact that Trump committed insurrection. So obvious is it, that NO ONE has been criminally charged. One would think an offense so serious would demand such charges be brought.
Not everything you don't like is criminal or disqualifying. I learned that during the Bill Clinton impeachment.
Then explain, using originalism, why after the civil war plenty of people were subject to sec 3 but were never charged with a crime? Not everybody who aided the Confederacy was in a uniform or fired a musket.
Because the North had just won a damned war. And,
"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." (Thucydides)
It was nothing but a raw exercise of power by the winner of a war over the loser. Which, conspicuously, began BEFORE the 14th amendment was even written.
Did we have a civil war when I wasn't looking?
The Supreme Court managed to miss this awful take on the history of the 14A.
They didn’t need it to notice that Section 3 isn’t enforceable by states against federal offices. And, as I said,
"Which, conspicuously, began BEFORE the 14th amendment was even written."
So, how was it an exercise of Section 3? By time machine?
It was an exercise of "We won, you lost. Sucks to be you." And nothing more.
Well, for one there is a provision of federal law for a writ of quo warranto (subsequently repealed), where insurrectionists could be disqualified for their participation in the rebellion.
But there was also a general understanding, pretty much uncontested, that those who had served the Confederacy were disqualified under Section 3. That itself discouraged most of them from ever attempting to seek an office for which they were disqualified.
Then Congress later passed a broader amnesty, removing the disability, as provided in Section 3, mooting the issue.
I will say this about Prof. Somin: He certainly believes in his position.
So did the Captain of the Titanic.
The problem though is that Somin essentially said that the Supreme Court was wrong. For the most part, they can’t be wrong (see Roe v Wade as a counter example), because it is their prerogative to determine, definitively, what the law is. That means that they are right, and their nay sayers are wrong. And we all go on from there.
While today’s Supreme Court opinion is unanimous, it’s notable that both Justice Amy Coney Barrett (writing for herself alone) and the three liberal justices (in a joint opinion) wrote concurrences that seem to reject or at least call into question much of the majority’s reasoning. I will likely have more to say about these opinions later.
Those opinions are far more important – and generally sounder – in my opinion. It is also no accident imo that all four women justices found the need to speak up on their own. And that the first sentence for the liberal justice’s opinion references Dobbs and the notion of judicial ‘minimalism’ that is ignored by the majority justices (male) in trying to include Sec5 and active Congressional action.
You argue that the "patchwork" concern is overblown and can be addressed by subsequent federal court rulings ... but the same can be said for your desire to see state control of this matter - this can be legislated by Congress.
The main problem with allowing a "patchwork" elimination is candidates goes well beyond the law ... it will fragment this country even more deeply and erode some of the few social bonds that still remain.
Which are all good consequentialist arguments... that this Sup Ct majority says they don't and shouldn't consider.
In theory, Congress could enact new enforcement legislation between now and January 20, 2025 (when Trump would take office, should he win).
Or any time after January 20, 2025. It becomes an alternative to impeachment.
that's a good point, there's no reason Sec 5 can't boot out an insurrectionist at any time, given SCOTUS's punt to Congress on the entire score.
I suppose the difficulty is it would have to be veto-proof, which might be harder than impeachment.
Maybe the cabinet, Congress, and VP can work together. The cabinet can invoke the 25th so that the VP can sign the enabling legislation.
Or, you know, if you think he's guilty of insurrection, YOU COULD BOTHER CHARGING HIM WITH IT.
Who are you talking to? I can't do that. Congress can't do that. The judiciary can't do it. States can't do it. People can't do it.
This opinion puts all the eggs in Congress's basket, so that's what we're talking about. Congress can't charge anyone with insurrection.
The opinion does NOT put all the eggs in Congress' basket. The opinion said that Congress was in charge of the basket, and had handed said basket off to the DOJ by making Section 3 enforceable by a criminal conviction for insurrection.
The Court has not only NOT taken disqualification off the table, they've located the precise location on the table where it presently resides.
Riddle me this Brett:
The federal criminal code crime of insurrection does not require the accused to have previously taken an oath. So how could that be the implementing legislation of 14th amend sec 3? Which very clearly applies to only a select group of people (those who previously took an oath to the constitution).
Federal criminal code, in a general sense, applies to everyone. Whereas 14th amend sec 3 applies to a limited/smaller group of people. Again, how could this statute be the implementation contemplated in sec 5???
I can imagine one scenario where someone, never have previously taken an oath, is convicted of the federal statute and sentenced to prison. Upon their release, they run for office (president even) and when someone brings up 14th amend sec 3 they say "but I never took an oath to the constitution so sec 3 doesn't apply to me." It makes zero sense for the enabling legislation referenced in sec 3 to exclude the oath requirement since sec 3 is very directly and specifically applicable to only one set of citizens: oathbreakers.
Wait, are you under the impression that Congress reliably enacts laws that conform in all respects to the Constitution? Really? Because it looks to me like they hardly even try to do that most of the time.
All this means is that somebody who got convicted of insurrection, and who'd never taken that oath, would have a good basis for challenging the disqualification on an as applied basis.
So by “you” you mean the DOJ? Hard to imagine Trump’s DOJ charging him with insurrection, especially given their standing rule against indicting sitting presidents. That would have to be one helluvan independent AG.
It's certainly hard to imagine the Trump DOJ charging him with insurrection based on January 6th, given that they'd have to get an absurd amount done in just two weeks.
Are you that determined to ignore that it's been the Biden DOJ for over three years now?
No I'm just wondering if you intend to engage with the conversation or are you just happy to interject your non sequiturs and then follow them with a confused conversation of talking past people?
Ha!
Let the lamentations of the Never Trumpers begin.
The Supreme Court has implicitly agreed that Trump was an insurrectionist.
When the majority opinion finds all manner of reasons to restore Trump onto the ballot, and decided on more expansive grounds than necessary, as Sotomayor argued, it logically follows that the majority implicitly rejected those Trump arguments it did not address in their decision.
Think: “here are 8 reasons why you should decide X.”
“Well, we’ll take the following 6 reasons” – you’re rejecting the other two.
So the SC accepts that Trump is an insurrectionists, and the president is an officer.
That's a nutty take. There is a value in issuing a per curium opinion, as well as deciding the case on narrow grounds. The Supreme Court frequently does this: decide the case on dispositive grounds and refuse to address other issues.
Wow. That is just not how any of this works.
Actually, it is very much how much of this works, even though my post wasn't to be taken too seriously. It is a standard part of interpretation to deduce not only from what has been said, but from what hasn't. For example, to take a completely random instance, it is reasonable to deduce that 14A applies to insurrections in general not just to the Civil War, because if the drafters had intended to restrict it to the Civil War, they would have said so.
Even in the outside world, if you say to someone, "you took my book and pen," and they respond, "I never took your pen," you'd deduce by their failure to deny that they took your book, they did indeed take your book.
even though my post wasn’t to be taken too seriously
So, just like pretty much everything you post.
It is a standard part of interpretation to deduce not only from what has been said,
Or, maybe . . . just use a dictionary while reading the opinion. No deducing required.
Oh yes, when a Court dismisses on a legal technicality before reaching a verdict/judgment, that definitely means the accused is guilty of the offense.
This was the least logical, least constitutional, most question-begging way to give Trump the win here. It reminds me of the recent hubbub over constitutional law scholars crying over Dobbs. How do you explain this doctrinally? Who can say.
The only way I can make sense of this stupid decision is to try to describe it politically: the three liberal justices knew they weren't going to get to a conclusion disqualifying Trump, so they used possible unanimity on this opinion as leverage to get a more favorable approach on the immunity appeal. Once the immunity hearing was set for April, they signed off on the unanimous opinion, holding for Trump on the one grounds where all of the justices could find some substantive agreement.
Roberts, for his part, was probably looking at a potentially splintered holding, if they couldn't find agreement on this point. Alito and Thomas both say it wasn't an insurrection; Barrett and Kavanaugh say the President isn't an "officer"; the liberals put their foot down and say that of course 14.3 is "self-executing" and so the harder questions on what constitutes an "insurrection" and an "officer" have to be dealt with.
What a stupid, irrational opinion, now stuck in the firmament of our constitutional order. They should have had the courage to deal with this question on the merits. Instead they've read 14.3 out of the Constitution entirely.
The easiest approach was to follow the law and precedent. That's what was done.
Nope.
What a stupid, irrational opinion, now stuck in the firmament of our constitutional order. They should have had the courage to deal with this question on the merits. Instead they’ve read 14.3 out of the Constitution entirely.
No, they have not.
the Ciurt pointed out that Congress had refused to seat those they deemed insurrectionists, using their inherent Article I power.
congress also enacted a quo warranto process for federal prosecutors to sue to remove federal officials, and authorized courts to grant quo warranto.
Saying Congress has the power to enforce 14A3S is reading it out of the Constitution? That's a very odd take.
I agree with Ilya's take that holding that the provision has no effect absent Congressional action is absurd. It's a qualification for office just like the age, citizenship, and term limit requirements.
Also, fuck you.
But, Congress DID take action: They enacted a federal insurrection statute. Why are we supposed to pretend it doesn't exist?
Who's pretending it doesn't exist?
Just because Congress may be authorized by a constitutional provision to enact such a statute does not imply that the constitutional provision has no effect outside that statute.
You're the one arguing that the clause has been read out of the Constitution somehow by noting that it works through enabling legislation, and that legislation actually exists.
So now all Colorado has to do is say that Trump is ineligible because he was born in Venezuela and he's only 26 years old. Then the federal courts would have to let it stand.
Eric, it would be just as fact based as the goofy insurrection ruling.
I'm not sure this is comparable to a state court's finding of objective fact about qualifications (age, citizenry). Those types of determinations are (for the most part) findings of fact and easily disposed of, rather than subjective determinations (insurrection or no).
Further, as the opinion notes, 14A moved us from a model where the national gov. was delegated powers by the states and people, to one where the national gov. claims sovereignty over the states on particular issues. To let states wade into determinations touching such federal issues, the federal government would now have to delegate the power back to the states. There is a history of letting states adjudicate the simple issues of qualification, but not of the more subjective large questions.
Finally, it has long been recognized that the states act in their own interest and are competitive with each other for prosperity and power. It's why we have codes regulating commerce between the states and an electoral college, for example. If you let a state disqualify a national candidate because they perceive his actions to have been treasonous, I can't think of a single President in our history (certainly in the last century) that would be immune from such claims by at least one self-interested actor.
As the opinion stated, that is an unworkable model. The proposal to implement it now is new. To the extent that some justices have misgivings about the breadth of the ruling (ACB's opinion of needlessly strident reasoning), I empathize - we haven't been well served by expansive views of federal power, i.e. Commerce Clause, Chevron).
It would have been far more prudent of the Court's conservative wing to swing for the infield on this one rather than the bleachers. But the result for today's immediate circumstances seem correct.
As the opinion stated, that is an unworkable model.
No. it isn’t. It is a model both workable and convenient. With the additional advantage that unlike this execrable decision, it is the method decreed by the jointly sovereign People in their Constitution.
Under expectation that the Constitution be followed faithfully by those sworn to allegiance, it would almost never happen that a candidate tainted as Trump has been would present for office. And nobody would notice the absence. All would simply choose more easily and with more assurance among the almost undiminished supply of untainted candidates, comprising the whole body of office-seekers as before, minus only a tiny few judged for good reason to be less likely to serve faithfully.
The angst and uproar aroused by this case is symptomatic of unworkability; it is remarkable anyone would think otherwise. The jointly sovereign People enjoy power to bestow the gift of office at pleasure, and without constraint. No person has a right even to contend for the People’s favor unless they permit it—and permit it not as a right but as a privilege. With this illegitimate decision, the Court forgets itself; it purports to constrain the People in the exercise of their favor.
The People do not want purported insurrectionist candidates; the Court says the People must have them. That is an unworkable system.
"The People do not want purported insurrectionist candidates;"
But people do want Trump as a candidate or he wouldn't be winning the republican primaries by such a wide margin.
The key to understanding Lathrop, is that this abstract "People" of his has nothing really to do with the actual people populating the country, the citizens, or the voters. It's just a vague abstraction whose hypothized will overrides theirs.
Bellmore, somehow, "hypothesized," under-describes, "Explicitly decreed by the jointly sovereign People in their Constitution."
Your notion of the people as Trump voters is deficient. No division of the people, however large the faction, enjoys sovereign power. It is the People acting jointly which wield sovereign power.
They did that when they decreed eligibility standards for which candidates it pleased them to consider for office. They do it again when they all act jointly to choose during an election among the candidates so-qualified.
Nothing any faction of them does to the exclusion of others enjoys any presumption of sovereign legitimacy. Trump voters by themselves cannot benefit from any such claim, and thus are not positioned to be deprived of any power due them. The same would be true of Biden voters, or more generally of Democratic Party voters, or Republican Party voters, or of the voters in both parties together.
"The voters in both parties together" are the people.
Good job not addressing Ilya's argument at all.
This reminds me of a time in 2002 when I was waiting in the SCOTUS bar members' line to get in for oral arguments in a case. The attorney behind me had once clerked for a judge (Miner) on the 2nd Circuit. I had been at an oral argument for a case (Good News Club v. Milford) where SCOTUS overruled a decision written by that judge (Lamb's Chapel). The attorney read from a newsletter put out by Judge Miner that started off by saying, "Once again the Supreme Court got it wrong."
Uhhhh....Judge Miner, I think you got it wrong. And Prof. Somin, I think you got it wrong too.
Ilya's original mistake was imagining that he was viewing an insurrection on J6.
When we have a politician joining an insurrection, we'll know it by the AR-15 he's brought to the party.
When we have a president joining an insurrection we'll know it by the armed military and security fencing surrounding the Capitol.
If this had gone the other way, I was looking forward to some state, say Alabama, determining that Biden engaged in insurrection, and removing him from the ballot.
It's remarkable that you would say that so proudly without realizing what a shithead it reveals you to be.
Any doubt that had it been "Open Borders" Biden that had been disqualified from appearing on the ballot, we would have heard a totally different tune from Ilya?
Yes, SCOTUS took an easy way out, but it does not indicate their are in error. Their action is correct in addressing the issue at hand.
Some day SCOTUS may go deeper and determine A14S3 does not apply to the presidency or vice presidency, because the list of those being prohibited begins with the higher offices first, as it must, and devolves to the lower positions, thus the list is the list - period.
“Unless and until Congress enacts new Section 5 enforcement legislation, former officeholders who engaged in insurrection will be mostly free to return to power, and try their hand at subverting democracy again.”
Will they, though? Congress HAS passed enforcement regulations that addresses those who engaged in insurrection—hence 18 U.S. Code § 2383. The thing is, being thusly “incapable of holding any office under the United States” requires a conviction for the crime of insurrection—which strikes me as the correct basis for determining whether a citizen is to be deprived of a civil right to which they are otherwise entitled.
(The “who is an officer” question still remains, of course…)
David Gaw, what civil right? If you mean a right to run for federal elective office, no such right is even possible under American constitutionalism. The jointly Sovereign People enjoy power to bestow the gift of elective office at pleasure, and without constraint. They have never authorized any right which empowers anyone to constrain that power in any way. Nor could they, without conceding sovereignty itself.
Congress did enact, and later repealed, a quo warranto process which allowed U.S. attorneys to file suit in federal court, and authorized the federal judiciary to remove federal officials.
Ejercito, as a non-lawyer I need help. I cannot understand what implications, if any, quo warranto process, could be claimed to have for constraint of sovereignty. Is there any explanation you could offer which would not define sovereignty out of existence? Or are we just talking about two different topics?
"…every other part of the Fourteenth Amendment, including its protections against racial and ethnic discrimination, the Due Process Clause, and more. All these other provisions are considered to be self-executing…"
One difference that occurs to me is that Section 1 clauses referenced impose restrictions on the states themselves. "No state shall make or enforce any law that…" etc. A violation is an act by a state, and a decision by a state court to that effect is therefore simply a correction by the state of its own action. (Congress has additionally passed several examples of enabling legislation, including the various Civil Rights Acts.) That is not the case with Section 3. But I would wager that once one HAS been convicted of insurrection, a state court can act on that, because 18 USC § 2383 would meet the enabling legislation requirement.
This is what I call a blind spot:
It’s Past Time to Quit Hoping the Courts Are Going to Stop Trump BY RICHARD L. HASEN AND DAHLIA LITHWICK
"And what did the court do on the merits in the disqualification case? It not only held that states cannot enforce the disqualification provisions against an insurrectionist running for federal office. It put a straitjacket on Congress’s ability to enforce it too, raising serious questions about whether even Congress could possibly satisfy the Supreme Court if it attempts to say that Trump cannot serve as president again.
With disqualification off the table,..."
Note the glaring omission: The DOJ could, oh, charge Trump with insurrection. Upon conviction, he'd be disqualified. The Supreme court expressly identified this as the only current legal route to disqualifying Trump.
But this can't even be considered. Why?
I suppose because of the horrifying prospect that he might be acquitted... It's a back of the hand, very indirect concession that the insurrection case against Trump is laughably weak, so weak that it dare not be brought in a criminal trial, with the full allotment of due process.
I disagree with your final point. I would not characterize it as “laughably weak” versus the fact that it is inextricably tied with serious and difficult First Amendment concerns as nobody has alleged that Trump personally took up arms at any point, made military orders, etc. Even if Trump was not President at the time, at what point does campaigning end? Election Day? When Congress certifies the election? There are enough tangential issues and what Trump did was the antithesis of any of his predecessors that they likely don’t want the axiomatic bad facts making bad law.
"Today's unanimous per curiam Supreme Court decision is badly wrong."
lol, lmao
HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE SO WRONG IIIYA???????
Dude, if its 9-0 and even the hard core liberals are in that majority, its you buddy.
You are clearly wrong. You are justify the means with the ends. Give it up man!
Yes, academics that disagree with the Supreme Court find their careers and spirits ruined.
even the hard core liberals are in that majority
If either you or the conservatives on the court were able to put aside your Trump boners and imagine the case from a neutral perspective, or with the tables turned and a Democrat on trial, you'd realize that this was a very liberal opinion, taking power away from the states and giving it to the feds.
So it's not at all surprising that the liberals liked it. It is pretty notable that all the conservatives were willing to set aside their principles for Trump.
The decision is bipartisan, like the national debt.
"Both sides of our crooked political establishment like it - it must be OK!"
The conservatives (except Barrett) presumably want to stop Democratic "lawfare."
The liberals want to boost federal supremacy.
But what happens when you take the liberals' persuasive argument that Sec. 3 is self-executing (which negatives' the conservatives' reasoning) with a literal reading of the Constitution by which the state legislators, not the feds, decide how electors get chosen?
That casts doubt both on the reasoning of conservative majority and on the reasoning of the liberal plurality.
Far better if they'd just said President Trump's speech, as a matter of law, was not insurrection. That wouldn't duck the underlying issue.
Completely agree that the liberals and the conservatives are both wrong for different reasons. (And Barrett is wrong for both... and more!)
But at least the liberals are wrong in a way that's consistent with their principles. The conservatives are wrong and unprincipled. And Barrett's just hanging out there with an explicitly political diatribe, which never works.
I thought Barrett was the one who said she’d hold her tongue to avoid divisiveness.
I will nuance-ize my analysis to say that the conservatives, too, are often for federal supremacy. It’s to be expected that on a court which forms a branch of the federal government, the different factions will share a commitment to a more powerful federal government.
And the liberals can use states’-rights rhetoric to gain a temporary advantage in situations like same-sex marriage and racial preferences.
Now, if you take another look at the liberals’ supposedly principled concurrence, you’ll notice that they are open to various federal fixes to the problem of Trump potentially getting elected. They rebuke their conservative colleagues for saying Sec. 5 is the exclusive remedy for enforcing Sec. 3.
It’s possible they’re thinking about Congress throwing out the votes of the Trump electors. In a nonpartisan way, of course.
And Congress’s decision, unlike that of the Colorado Supreme Court, wouldn’t be appealable to the U. S. Supreme Court.
Nonpartisanship works in strange ways.
I meant to say the Supreme Court was a *part* of the federal government, not a *branch.*
I thought Barrett was the one who said she’d hold her tongue to avoid divisiveness.
And completely failed to hold her tongue, highlighting the divisiveness. It's sort of a pattern with her. Eventually she'll figure out that you can't lecture people on not lecturing people. You have to just not lecture people.
I will nuance-ize my analysis to say that the conservatives, too, are often for federal supremacy.
But not in the area of federal elections! This is quite a pivot for them from just a year or two ago.
It’s possible they’re thinking about Congress throwing out the votes of the Trump electors.
Congress is gonna do what Congress is gonna do. I don't think this opinion'll stop them.
What I think the liberals might be worried about is throwing away an opportunity for them and the federal courts to get back in the game sometime before that all goes down on Jan 6. There'll probably be a lot of lawsuits between now and November, and also between November and January, which may prove to be better opportunities to resolve things before it comes crashing down on Congress. But the conservatives have made that a lot harder by prejudging the potential questions.
"What I think the liberals might be worried about is throwing away an opportunity for them and the federal courts to get back in the game sometime before that all goes down on Jan 6."
So would you say the liberal justices have a *strictly principled and nonpartisan* desire to keep the federal courts open to hear suits challenging Trump's qualifications?
Sure. I mean... they're right that Section 3 is self-executing (assuming they think it is... they didn't actually say that). There's nothing unprincipled about that. (If anything, the conservatives are being results-oriented here too, where they skip any textual analysis whatsoever and just work back from the consequences to their desired meaning, the exact thing they normally hate.)
Does one have to exonerate one side in criticizing the other?
"they’re right that Section 3 is self-executing (assuming they think it is… they didn’t actually say that)"
They said that other constitutional requirements are self-executing and that the majority gave no good reason to make an exception for Sec. 3.
Just because they're results-oriented doesn't mean their interpretation will be wrong.
What's wrong is they ignore the state legislatures' power, delegated by the Constitution itself, to decide how Presidential electors shall be chosen.
Also wrong? That the Supreme Court ignores that under the Constitution they are sworn to support, Trump is already disqualified from being President, unless two-thirds of each house of Congress say otherwise.
The Court hates that for two reasons:
1. It looks messy, as they say, but they are empowered to clean the mess up, and don't want to.
2. They fear more than anything that has ever come before them, a Constitutional responsibility to announce the disqualification of Trump for president. Even overtly cowardly machinations which invite constitutional crises seem preferable to these justices than to face squarely that responsibility.
The price of certainty is that Section 3 is largely neutered with respect to federal office-holders.
More bullshit from the moron.
It's really quite simple: get someone arrested for, tried for, and convicted of participating in an insurrection, and they can be disqualified.
Short of that, they should not be disqualified, and they won't be.
It's only worthless assholes intent on "saving our democracy" (not everyone's democracy, just "theirs") who are intent on disqualifying from the ballot anyone they dislike.
The fact that you all can't have what you want is a good thing
If a soldier commits insurrection, the Army (and the President) can remove the soldier from active duty at the very least.
A court-martial is only needed by law to put the soldier before a firing squad.
Somin: Often wrong, never unsure.
I kinda get the concurrence by Justice Jackson.
I mean, congress did exercise its pre-existing power to refuse to seat Victor Burger for aiding and comfrting america’s enemies.
And the President can kick troops out of the Army for any reason whatsoever. The law restrains the President’s ability to put up a soldier before the firing squad for aiding and comforting an enemy, but the President can just kick the soldier out if he feels he can’t win a court-martial against the soldier.
By the majority’s reasoning, it seems that Congress couldn’t refuse to seat Victor Burger, or that the President can’t just kick out a soldier., unless the law plainly says so.
The Army never had pre-existing authority to overthrow the President. They can’t do so unless Congress gives them that power.
"By the majority’s reasoning, it seems that Congress couldn’t refuse to seat Victor Burger, or that the President can’t just kick out a soldier., unless the law plainly says so."
I'm not seeing that. I mean, arguably, Section 3 didn't give Congress the power to just up and kick out Berger. But it didn't need to, as Article 1 had already given them that power.
Somin was hoping for at least one justice to take his side, but he got none. The burn of that shutout is palpable in this note.
Here’s how the WSJ succinctly explained it:
The term “insurrection or rebellion” clearly applied to the Confederacy. The court held that applying it in other contexts requires going through the basic process of constitutional administration: Congress passes laws enacting standards and procedures for enforcing Section 3, the executive branch brings cases under those laws, and the judicial branch applies the laws through pretrial motions, trials and appellate review.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-legal-scholar-who-cried-wolf-14th-amendment-section-3-insurrection-election-21df2bea
Yeah, the Wall Street Journal may well have explained what the decision did not say, but will be replaced with another decision to say explicitly down the road, if the pro-Trump majority find need to go that far.
Make no mistake, this Court means to take the question of previous insurrection right out of the election, and leave it to be decided instead by whatever combination of voting and re-insurrection the various parties use to contend the result.
Ilya writes: "an error likely caused by underestimation the justices' concerns about the potential dangers of a "patchwork" of divergent state rulings on disqualification."
I don't think that was the likely cause of the error. Many commentators have pointed out that "patchwork" describes many facets of our ballot access rules.
The error is in underestimating the degree to which the highest calling of the Court is not the law, objectively, nor is it the political or interpretive views of the justices, but the defense of the stability of the institution of the Government itself.
Ruling against Trump here might be a desirable political outcome or an outcome consistent with a favored method of interpretation, but it would serve to destabilize the orderly functioning of the Government too much, the consequences are too extreme, and the Court won't allow that.
The Court vacillates between defense of stability, as in this case, and nudging the country slowly toward the political objectives of the justices in careful steps that do not undermine that stability. Political and interpretive objectives are always subordinate.
decius, you demonstrate a partisanship you are perhaps unaware you possess. Instability-wise, the Court plays a high-stakes zero-sum game, without any stability-favoring exit available. Trump backers cherish a notion that to favor their guy is the path to stability. It is a delusion.
However recklessly, leave aside for the sake of argument Trump’s own anti-stable habits and proclivities. If Trump’s previous insurrection activities get covered up and ruled out—by preclusion of trials for offenses Trump is already charged with—the Court itself will thereafter not enjoy a moment’s repose.
Every political test, for however long it takes, will be recast by vengeful Democrats, one way or another, until a moment arrives when Democrats get a Court to their liking, by whatever means it takes to get it. And everyone—in power, and among the citizens—will know it, expect it, and try to manage public affairs accordingly.
While re-positioned principally as a fulcrum to support that kind of stress, how effective do you suppose the Court will be? Do you suppose this nation can get along, perhaps for decades, without an effective Court? Does a future like that strike you as a recipe for national stability?
This crisis is one which will have to be confronted and resolved, lest it spawn chaos indefinitely. There is bitter irony in the offing, given that it was for exactly the reason to avoid that kind of chaos that Section 3 was written into the Constitution. Now the nation finds itself at risk of that chaos anyway, because of cowardice on the Court.
Please don't mistake my read on what SCOTUS values with my own personal views.
I do think that the immediate certainty of chaos and recriminations in the wake of allowing Trump to be disqualified weighs more heavily for the Court than the possibility that their might be chaos in the future if they don't stop him now.
Lots of things could happen. Perhaps he'll just lose.
If he wins, and total chaos ensues, the court will be one of several institutions that could have acted and failed to. What will seem glaringly obvious in retrospect is, unfortunately, possible to rationalize with today... people today are telling themselves that its ridiculous to think that the worst case scenario would actually unfold. Its human nature to do that.
I can see the worsening credibility of the court with Democrats and in fact there are polls that show it, and this probably is a step in the slow increase of stress on that fault line. The court turns more slowly than the people, and sometimes the gap is unsustainable. It was in the 30s.
Ilya, at least 3 times in recent memory the SCOTUS has chastised Colorado for illegality and persecution and outright anarchy.
Per the SCOTUS ruling: “As the record shows, some of the commissioners at the Commission’s formal, public hearings endorsed the view that religious beliefs cannot legitimately be carried into the public sphere or commercial domain, disparaged Phillips’ faith as despicable and characterized it as merely rhetorical, and compared his invocation of his sincerely held religious beliefs to defenses of slavery and the Holocaust. No commissioners objected to the comments.”
Many folks loathe Colorado,the land of hate. Visit there and say something not PC and see what happens
Visit there and say something not PC
By which, of course, you mean: something hateful.
Colorado is the epitome of the libertarianism of the American West. Yeah, they don't like it when you hate on their citizens.
Any electoral system is as fatally subject to the defects the Trump opinion pointed out as the system our constitution’s Framers devised. A President elected by less than complete acclamation can only claim to represent a portion of the people, never all of them. Only a President approved by acclamation, with no dissents permitted, could ever meet the standard the Trump court set for what the federal interest is.
Yes, the system our framers enacted, with each state legislature free to establish its own home-grown manner of appointing electors and each state getting to have its own opinion about who it thinks is a qualified candidate, is a recipe for chaos, disorder, and non-uniformity. But permitting the little people to have opinions about who they think is a qualified candidate also introduces chaos, disorder, and non-uniformity.
If the federal interest is in stability, order, and umiformity, only one system of selecting a president can meet that interest. Only a dictator for life, with petty states and their petty citizens equally not permitted to interfere, can satisfy the federal interest in stability, order, and uniformity that the Supreme Court so evidently craves. No republican form of government can ever do so. Indeed, any federated, pluralistic form of government, any at all, whether it involves nobles, states, people, anything, will always require putting up with a level of chaos, disorder, and non-uniformity that will scare the bejesus out of anyone who thinks these should be a country’s highest values. Different nobles, different opinions. Different states, different opinions. Different people, different opinions. If the “federal” interest is in stability, order, and uniformity, then no federal form of government, indeed no form of government other than one-man rule, can ever hope to achieve that interest.
“Only a dictator for life, with petty states and their petty citizens equally not permitted to interfere, can satisfy the federal interest in stability, order, and uniformity that the Supreme Court so evidently craves.”
Hmmm. The system seems to have worked, more or less, for 250 years without a “dictator for life,” and without each state getting to have its way with the federal ballot. Are you sure you’re not overreacting to a bad day? (Maybe?)