The Volokh Conspiracy
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Urinalysis Requirement for Gun Carry Permit Likely Unconstitutional
So held Nassau County (N.Y.) trial judge James P. McCormack last week in In the Matter of Kamenshchik, applying the Second Circuit's recent decision in Antonyuk v. Chiumento.
Antonyuk held (among other things) that "requiring applicants to disclose even pseudonymous names under which they post online imposes an impermissible infringement on Second Amendment rights that is unsupported by analogues in the historical record and moreover presents serious First Amendment concerns." The Kamenshchik court held that, though Antonyuk upheld some modest discretionary judgment on the government's part, "particularly in the area of good moral character or dangerousness, and in the nature of following-up on other information provided," that didn't extend to the urinalysis requirement. And the Kamenshchik court concluded that the urinalysis requirement wasn't otherwise authorized under the Supreme Court's Bruen decision:
If urinalysis is beyond the Licensing Officer's discretion [authorized by Antonyuk], then it can only be upheld if there is, in Bruen's parlance, a historical analogue. Not only is there no such historical analogue, but forcing an applicant to submit to urinalysis, in essence, requires them to give up their 4th Amendment rights against unlawful searches and seizures to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. This court cannot imagine a scenario, under current 2nd Amendment jurisprudence, where that would be allowed. The court is therefore constrained to find the urinalysis requirement is unconstitutional, as applied to Kamenshchik in this matter.
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Simple test; if whatever requirement they want for acquiring a gun were required for voting, would it be acceptable?
Terrible analogy. Think of all those armed corpses!
I support the right to keep and arm bears. 🙂
There was a great poster of that, showing a cartoon bear in camo pants and combat boots with crossed bandoliers and an M-16 (with bayonet) wearing a WW1 Campaign hat.
The chance of one person who shouldn’t vote changing the outcome of an election is infinitesimal. The chance of one person who shouldn’t have a gun committing criminal shootings is not.
I'd love to see some data on the number of prohibited persons (under just Federal law) who (a) have firearms and (b) don't shoot anyone. If you included the number who had access to a firearm via a non-prohibited person (e.g. spouse), I think you would truly be amazed.
So this IS a fair analogy because in both cases, the statistical likelihood of one person is virtually nil.
No, but many millions of felons or other parasites voting does cause major death and harm to America.
How brave, to reduce all felons (and 'others') to the status of parasite.
And so Edmund Burke excoriated people like you :
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little. Edmund Burke
Requiring a urine test to vote would be okay with me.
Only if it's a taste test conducted by the candidates.
Isn't that why they call typical campaign promises "taking the piss"?
Still waiting for play-by-play from the Cargill hearing.
Yer analysis is a pisser!
This "historical analogue" bullshit is such a farce.
Farcicality is judicially irrelevant. The question is whether the method* can deliver less constraint than others. If it cannot, then whatever delivers less constraint is the method required.
*For now, with now revised bi-ennially.
Logically, self-refuting. The goal is either some legal right or duty and not the maximum of some proxy like 'constraint'.
"requiring [gun-carry permit] applicants to disclose even pseudonymous names under which they post online"
Let's deprive people who express politically-incorrect sentiments of their constitutional rights! How "progressive"!
Antonyuk is currently on appeal to the Supreme Court. (A petition for certiorari was docketed earlier this month.) How much do you want to bet that Sotomayor, Kagan, and Jackson will vote to uphold this requirement (the Constitution be damned!)?
The Federalist Papers were published anonymously...
Except for the part where people knew who they were.
That was not settled til long after.And NO ONE thought that the writers were defending their positions, since not one of them got what they had declared for before adoption.
You mistake 'anonymity' in the same way Kamala did and does,but with less excuse
AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY FOUNDATION v.
BONTA, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CALIFORNIA
The preferred method in colonial times was anonymity so that the argument did not devolve to personality.
Which problem you illuatrate.
Sotomayor, Kagan and Jackson are nasty, shrieky women, and overall bad people. That's all the analysis you need to know.
shrieky?
I'd guess you've never heard them speak.
You're just really misogynist and I can't tell if you're one of the frequent customers or a new shitty right-wing freak in from the outside,
Either way, it's blocktown for you.
IN my too-many decades of Supreme Court watching, Jackson might be the stupidest to be approved.
Enjoy the ride while you still can, gun nuts.
Then, the reckoning.
Choosing the losing end of the culture war, the weaker side at the marketplace ideas, and the wrong side of history will have consequences. Gun nuts seem destined to experience the same results as anti-abortion absolutists, white nationalists, misogynists, Christian dominionists, racists, xenophobes, and AM radio fans.
Then, the reckoning.
When does this happen? What form will it be in?
Rev, I enjoy my daily dose from the poster boy of backwoods undeducated hate.
Only a fool would make a list that includes racism and then singles out WHITE nationalists. What a stupid unthinking man you are. Of course, you are entertaining for that reason.
A urine test today says nothing about drug use tomorrow, ornext week or next year.
Its an harassment thing, designed solely for driving off applicants. It serves no public interest at all.
I remember a woman telling me she had a drug test coming up for a new job. She found something to drink that would purge the evidence of marijuana use from her system. This for a job as a waitress.
The police commissioner in this New York case claimed he was trying to detect addicts. A serious addict couldn't go clean for long enough to pass a test.
Other reasons petitioner (plaintiff) did not get a gun license:
* He failed to complete the "Marital Status and Relationships" section of the license application.
* He failed to provice contact information for adults living with him.
* He failed to disclose under oath whether he lived with minors.
The Democrats would probably consider living with minors to be a positive if you're molesting them.
It's OSHA that requires the drug test. Last year we had an incident where I work. I was assigned to help the OSHA investigator get what he needed. As soon as I told him who I was, I was sent for a piss test. I wasn't even working the day of the incident. I'm pretty sure that I was selected because management knew I'd pass.
I'm assuming mail-in drug testing would be be acceptable since mail-in voting is deemed secure.
I think a state could make a reasonable argument it's a reasonable requirement given that drug use disqualifies someone from possessing a gun and the courts have, so far, held said prohibition to be constitutional (unlawfully appointed Special Counsel Weiss is currently charging the President's son).
I doubt many of those who adamantly demanded welfare recipients piss in a cup are going to decry this ruling.
IDK, half the troops in Vietnam smoked pot and they could still handle their weapons.
I'm inclined to agree with the gun rights folks that this is unconstitutional. It's constitutional to criminalize the use of a firearm while intoxicated, though.
There's a big difference between saying that doing something can constitutionally disqualify one from a right and saying that a state can proactively make you prove you don't do something as a condition of exercising that right.
Receiving welfare isn't a constitutional right. It's a privilege.
I only see that this will increase black market gun sales.
This is what I call 'Biden reasoning'
No connection at all , in any sense , to welfare recipients. None,
Do you really believe there are no welfare recipients that apply for guns!!!!!!!!