The Volokh Conspiracy
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SCOTUS Chooses California Over Pork Producers and Bacon Consumers (and Issues Four Other Opinions Too)
The Supreme Court issues five merits opinions, but there are still forty more waiting.
The Supreme Court issued opinions in five argued cases today, bringing the total number of merits decisions up to 18, with forty* more to go (unless some get mooted out).
The biggest decision of the day was National Pork Producers Council v. Ross, a Dormant Commerce Clause challenge to California's law barring in-state sale of animal products that fail to meet California's regulatory requirements. The pork producers argued this law unconstitutionally burdened interstate commerce and extraterritorialized California's regulatory preferences. A majority of the Supreme Court disagreed.
Justice Gorsuch wrote for the Court, but only one justice (Thomas) agreed with him in full. In fact, the Justices were quite splintered. See for yourself:
GORSUCH, J., announced the judgment of the Court, and delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Parts I, II, III, IV–A, and V, in which THOMAS, SOTOMAYOR, KAGAN, and BARRETT, JJ., joined, an opinion with respect to Parts IV–B and IV–D, in which THOMAS and BARRETT, JJ., joined, and an opinion with respect to Part IV-C, in which THOMAS, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN, JJ., joined. SOTOMAYOR, J., filed an opinion concurring in part, in which KAGAN, J., joined. BARRETT, J., filed an opinion concurring in part. ROBERTS, C. J., filed an opinion concurring in part and dissenting in part, in which ALITO, KAVANAUGH, and JACKSON, JJ., joined. KAVANAUGH, J., filed an opinion concurring in part and dissenting in part.
There's quite a bit in there to unpack, but there are some important takeaways from the bottom-line result.
First, the opinion signals a narrowing of the Dormant Commerce Clause to an anti-discrimination rule, as opposed to a broader protection for the frictionless movement of goods and services across state lines.
Second, the opinion provides a bright green light for states to adopt environmental laws that regulate goods and services based upon how they are produced (e.g. their carbon intensity, etc.). California already leads the way with such laws, and this decision should make it more difficult for business groups to challenge such measures.
Third, the decision complicates the already questionable "Roberts Court is pro-business" narrative, by demonstrating (yet again) that when conservative jurisprudential commitments conflict with corporate interests, the former prevail. Combined with decisions such as Virginia Uranium v. Warren, National Pork Producers shows that business groups cannot depend on conservative justices to support their challenges to state regulations.
National Pork Producers was one of five total decisions issued today. The other four were:
- Santos-Zacaria v. Garland, in which a unanimous Court concluded that the exhaustion requirement in 8 U. S. C. §1252(d)(1) is not jurisdictional so a noncitizen who seeks to challenge an order of removal can proceed to federal court without first exhausting all administrative remedies. Justice Jackson wrote for the Court. Justice Alito concurred in the judgment joined by Justice Thomas.
- Financial Oversight and Management Board for Puerto Rico v. Centro de Periodismo Investigativo, in which an 8-1 Court concluded that Congress did not abrogate the Board's sovereign immunity. Justice Kagan wrote for the Court. Justice Thomas dissented.
- Percoco v. United States, in which a unanimous Court concluded that a private citizen with influence over government decision-making cannot, on that basis, be convicted for "honest services" fraud. Justice Alito wrote for the Court. Justice Gorsuch concurred in the judgment, joined by Justice Thomas.
- Ciminelli v. United States, in which a unanimous Court concluced that "potentially valuable economic information" of the sort "necessary to make discretionary economic decisions" is not the sort of traditional property interest that can support a conviction for wire fraud under federal law. Justice Thomas wrote for the Court. Justice Alito concurred.
It is worth noting that these last two opinions -- Percoco and Ciminelli -- continue the Court's recent trend of narrowing the applicability of federal laws used to prosecute political corruption.
With today's decisions, Justices Jackson, Kagan, and Gorsuch have tied Justice Kavanaugh's mark of three opinions for the Court this term. Justices Thomas and Alito each got out their first majorities of the term today, in addition to adding more to their counts of separate opinions. The only justice not to have authored an opinion for the Court in an argued case thus far is the Chief. Presumably this is because he is holding one or more big-ticket cases for himself.
Predictions are hard, especially about the future, but today's releases incline me to think that the Chief will have Sackett from the October sitting, and at least one of the affirmative action cases from November (unless his opinion does not command a majority). I am also inclined to think that Alito may have Brackeen. Of course, these predictions are worth no more than you paid for them.
*Note: The Court heard argument in sixty cases this term. The reason there will be no more than 58 opinions in argued cases is because one of those cases (In re Grand Jury) was DIGed (dismissed as improvidently granted), and SEC v. Cochran case was combined with Axon Enterprise v. FTC for decision.
[Note: I mistakenly wrote that Justice Barrett joined all of Justice Gorsuch's National Pork Producers opinion. She did not join Part IV-C, however. The error has been corrected.]
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Justice prevails in the Pork Producers case.
You might say, they brought home the bacon.
The majority of them did, anyway.
IMO, there's no getting around the fact that California is regulating conduct occurring outside of California.
But the Supreme court doesn't agree with me, obviously, so California gets to continue its game of regulating the whole country using its outsized economic influence. At least until some industry up and decides that embargoing California is cheaper, and a very different case shows up before the Court.
Thankfully I get all my pork on a barter agreement with a local farmer, so I'm unaffected by this particular stupidity. (Ironically, CA would love his free range approach to raising pigs.)
It *is* cheaper to embargo California than comply nationally with its pork rules, but what happens if Producer Paul sells to Distributor Danny who then sells to Lying Larry who -- even after promising not to -- sells the pork in California...
I can seen pork producers seeking an injunction forcing California to inspect all trucks entering the state so as to ensure that their product is not being ILLEGALLY shipped into the state.
I don't think this is over yet. (And Congress could also intervene. Isn't Iowa a major pork producing state?)
Then Lying Larry is Liable, I should think. The law actually applies to people selling pork in California. It's 'just' that those peoples' liability hinges on what other people in other states did.
Say Wally Mart is selling pork cutlets in a dozen states including California. Pork R Us purchases pigs from thousands of pork producers nation-wide, cuts them up, and some of it gets sold to Wally Mart, which then distributes it to their stores.
Wally Mart is liable if it sells a pig from farmer Bob in Nebraska, who confines his pigs in violation of the California law. Neither farmer Bob nor Pork R Us are liable.
BUT. Wally Mart really does not want the logistical expense of segregating pork headed towards California, so it demands of Pork R US that all the pork sold to Wally Mart complies with the California store.
Pork R US really does not want the logistical expense of segregating pork headed to Wally Mart, so it demands of all it's pork producers, including farmer Bob, that they comply with the California law.
Pork R US isn't farmer Bob's only customer, but they're a big enough customer that he really does not want to lose them. So he knuckles under.
So, if 25% of Wally Mart's sales are in California, and 25% of Pork R US's sales are to Wally Mart, and 25% of farmer Bob's sales are to Pork R US, California has just successfully dictated nation-wide pork raising standards on the basis of being 1/64th of the market, and being sufficiently obnoxious about it.
E I E I O
E I E I O?
A guy once lost his job with that line.
It was a public address announcer who welcomed visiting West Virginia fans to a football game with public service announcements along the lines of
"there's a tractor in the parking lot with its lights on . . . license plate E I E I O"
"a reminder to our visiting fans . . . to clarify something that seems to be confusing some fans, the stadium's ban on smoking includes corncob pipes"
"we have a report of a medical emergency requiring a doctor attending today's game to call his office immediately . . . . Please, Dr. Billy Joe Jim Bob, call your office immediately."
I was once doing PA on a track meet when there was a car illegally parked and blocking the service driveway and had to be moved. That was the entirety of the announcement they gave me, so I announced it.
10 minutes later, still not moved. They give me another announcement. "Please move the POLICE CRUISER that is parked blocking the service driveway!".
The cops were embarrassed but did move it.
And you just thought you were being funny.
I was not that announcer. But I remembered the E I E I O story.
Segregating = shipping different pork to different locations. Big deal.
This is not that expensive and this is not rocket science either. It isn’t the segregation that is very expensive, it is the compliance with the regulations before that which is. Advocates emphasized segregation because that was the general cost, not because that was the higher cost.
Or Wally Mart stops selling pork in California. My guess is they will -- what percentage of their sales is it? Why assume the risk?
You don't have much confidence in the entrepreneual spirit, do you?
Let's assume that all current pig farms decide to boycott California over this, that none of them are willing to comply.
That means that the entire California pork market just became up-for-grabs. The idea that there wouldn't be anyone willing to jump in on that?
I mean, just how little confidence do you have in the entrepreneurial spirit?
Sam thing that happens to someone that sells a sex toy in Texas: the person who illegally sells it in the state is liable.
Y'all keep imagining this is super complicated. It's not.
They know it is not complicated. But to have a chance to prevail, it is this sideshow cost that had to be emphasized.
Personal Massager
Look, maybe you can get away with that for toys that are meant to stimulate the clit (though the better-rated ones I've looked at are all unmistakeable), but I have never seen a prostate massager that looks innocuous.
Maybe that's the problem with Texas. Too many guys with un-massaged prostates.
Good grief you degenerates are gross.
Cheaper is to run two tracks, one CA compliant, one not. And charge a premium for CA compliant.
Of course, that invites cheating. As Dr. Ed points out, for some processed products, there can be several middle-men (middle persons?). How does California police that an end product, say a can of ham, is compliant?
Psychic vibes given off by the meat offer a tell.
Same way most white collar crime gets discovered: either the data starts looking funny, or they get a tip-off, and then they start investigating and uncover something.
They can't even figure out that 2/3 of the people filing for pandemic unemployment benefits are Russian and Nigerian scammers.
What about Danish & Polish hams -- they export a lot of them in cans.
IIRC, the law doesn't apply to more processed products. So canned ham should be fine.
In Italy they have the Guardia di Finanza - the tax police, because no one in Italy pays taxes unless they are coerced. In similar fashion, California will now have the "Bacon Police".
The petroleum industry already does. Not embargo. But continue to produce non-CA compliant gasoline for the rest of the country. That is why gas prices in CA are $2 higher than everywhere else.
That's relatively straightforward, though, the way the petroleum industry is organized. You know, with pipelines, not trucks and warehouses?
There are a lot of trucks.
Alcohol can not be shipped by pipeline (absorbs too much water), and must be shipped by truck or rail.
Most of your final blending of gasoline in terms of both grade (which is additives) and region is done at the tank farm and then shipped by trucks. When i was driving, NH had lower sulfur rules for heavy oil than Maine did, so even though it came from the same tank farm, it had to be a different rack.
I don't see why the pork industry would have any great difficulty producing pork to separate standards for California than for the rest of the country—and charging California consumers for any higher cost.
Consider kosher chicken. The poultry industry apparently has no problem with a two-track system, for kosher and non-kosher products, with the former presumably costing more because of the additional requirements. There's no reason why the pork industry can't do something similar for California-bound products.
Speaking of free range pork, California does have quite the wild porcine problem - maybe that's the solution to both?
Anybody have relatives who are mentioned here?
A Brief Timeline of U.S. Policy on Immigration and Naturalization
1790 Congress adopts uniform rules so that any free white person could apply for citizenship after two years of residency.
1798 Alien and Sedition Acts required 14 years of residency before citizenship and provided for the deportation of "dangerous" aliens. Changed to five-year residency in 1800.
1819 First significant federal legislation on immigration. Includes reporting of immigration and rules for passengers from US ports bound for Europe
1846 Irish of all classes emigrate to the United States as a result of the potato famine.
1857 Dred Scott decision declared free Africans non-citizens.
1864 Contract Labor Law allowed recruiting of foreign labor.
1868 African Americans gained citizenship with 14th Amendment.
1875 Henderson v. Mayor of New York decision declared all state laws governing immigration unconstitutional; Congress must regulate "foreign commerce." Charity workers, burdened with helping immigrants, petition Congress to exercise authority and regulate immigration. Congress prohibits convicts and prostitutes from entering the country.
1880 The U.S. population is 50,155,783. More than 5.2 million immigrants enter the country between 1880 and 1890.
1882 Chinese Exclusion Act. First federal immigration law suspended Chinese immigration for 10 years and barred Chinese in U.S. from citizenship. Also barred convicts, lunatics, and others unable to care for themselves from entering. Head tax placed on immigrants.
1885 Contract Labor Law. Unlawful to import unskilled aliens from overseas as laborers. Regulations did not pertain to those crossing land borders.
1888 For the first time since 1798, provisions are adopted for expulsion of aliens.
1889 Jane Addams founds Hull-House on Chicago's Near West Side.
1890 Foreign-born in US were 15% of population (14% in Vermont); more arriving from southern and eastern Europe ("new immigrants") than northern and western ("old immigrants"). Jacob Riis publishes "How the Other Half Lives."
1891 Bureau of Immigration established under the Treasury Department. More classes of aliens restricted including those who were monetarily assisted by others for their passage. Steamship companies were ordered to return ineligible immigrants to countries of origin.
1892 Ellis Island opened to screen immigrants entering on east coast. (Angel Island screened those on west coast.) Ellis Island officials reported that women traveling alone must be met by a man, or they were immediately deported.
1902 Chinese Exclusion Act renewed indefinitely.
1903 Anarchists, epileptics, polygamists, and beggars ruled inadmissible.
1905 Construction of Angel Island Immigration Station began in the area known as China Cove. Surrounded by public controversy from its inception, the station was finally put into operation in 1910. Although it was billed as the "Ellis Island of the West", within the Immigration Service it was known as "The Guardian of the Western Gate" and was designed control the flow of Chinese into the country, who were officially not welcome with the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.
1906 Procedural safeguards enacted for naturalization. Knowledge of English becomes a basic requirement.
1907 Head tax is raised. People with physical or mental defects, tuberculosis, and children unaccompanied by a parent are added to the exclusion list. Japan agreed to limit emigrants to US in return for elimination of segregating Japanese students in San Francisco schools.
1910 Dillingham Report from Congress assumed inferiority of "new immigrants" from southern and eastern Europe and suggested a literacy test to restrict their entry. (William P. Dillingham was a Senator from Vermont.)
1917 Immigration Act provided for literacy tests for those over 16 and established an "Asiatic Barred Zone," which barred all immigrants from Asia.
1921 Quota Act of 1921 limited immigrants to 3% of each nationality present in the US in 1910. This cut southern and eastern European immigrants to less than 1/4 of those in US before WW I. Asians still barred; no limits on western hemisphere. Non-quota category established: wives, children of citizens, learned professionals, and domestic servants not counted in quotas.
1922 Japanese made ineligible for citizenship.
1924 Quotas changed to 2% of each nationality based on numbers in US in 1890. Based on surnames (many anglicized at Ellis Island) and not the census figures, 82% of all immigrants allowed in the country came from western and northern Europe, 16% from southern and eastern Europe, 2% from the rest of the world. As no distinctions were made between refugees and immigrants, this limited Jewish emigres during 1930s and 40s.
Despite protests from many native people, Native Americans made citizens of the United States. Border Patrol established.
1929 The annual quotas of the 1924 Act are made permanent.
1940 Provided for finger printing and registering of all aliens.
1943 In the name of unity among the Allies, the Chinese Exclusion Laws were repealed, and China's quota was set at a token 105 immigrants annually. Basis of the Bracero Program established with importation of agricultural workers from North, South, and Central America.
1946 Procedures adopted to facilitate immigration of foreign-born wives, finace(e)s, husbands, and children of US armed forces personnel.
1948 Displaced Persons Act allowed 205,000 refugees over two years; gave priority to Baltic States refugees; admitted as quota immigrants. Technical provisions discriminated against Catholics and Jews; those were dropped in 1953, and 205,000 refugees were accepted as non-quota immigrants.
1950 The grounds for exclusion and deportation are expanded. All aliens required to report their addresses annually.
1952 Immigration and Nationality Act eliminated race as a bar to immigration or citizenship. Japan's quota was set at 185 annually. China's stayed at 105; other Asian countries were given 100 a piece. Northern and western Europe's quota was placed at 85% of all immigrants. Tighter restrictions were placed on immigrants coming from British colonies in order to stem the tide of black West Indians entering under Britain's generous quota. Non-quota class enlarged to include husbands of American women.
1953 The 1948 refugee law expanded to admit 200,000 above the existing limit
1965 Hart-Celler Act abolished national origins quotas, establishing separate ceilings for the eastern (170,000) and western (120,000) hemispheres (combined in 1978). Categories of preference based on family ties, critical skills, artistic excellence, and refugee status.
1978 Separate ceilings for Western and Eastern hemispheric immigration combined into a worldwide limit of 290,000.
1980 The Refugee Act removes refugees as a preference category; reduces worldwide ceiling for immigration to 270,000.
1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act provided for amnesty for many illegal aliens and sanctions for employers hiring illegals.
1989 A bill gives permanent status to non-immigrant registered nurses who have lived in US for at least three years and met established certification standards.
1990 Immigration Act of 1990 limited unskilled workers to 10,000/year; skilled labor requirements and immediate family reunification major goals. Continued to promote nuclear family model. Foreign-born in US was 7%.
2001 USA Patriot Act amended the Immigration and Nationality Act to broaden the scope of aliens ineligible for admission or deportable due to terrorist activities to include an alien who: (1) is a representative of a political, social, or similar group whose political endorsement of terrorist acts undermines U.S. antiterrorist efforts; (2) has used a position of prominence to endorse terrorist activity, or to persuade others to support such activity in a way that undermines U.S. antiterrorist efforts (or the child or spouse of such an alien under specified circumstances); or (3) has been associated with a terrorist organization and intends to engage in threatening activities while in the United States.
No wonder they only decide half the cases as before and can't decide stuff timely. Opinion diarrhea.
Let's hope more businesses flee from these Democrat utopias.
That would be awesome. I want to see as much suffering and misery as possible to the people who "vote" for Democrats.
That is not remotely how this works.
Soon, though, health care in rural areas will consist of
1) a box of community band-aids on the counter at the feed store;
2) taking your children to the vet;
and
3) refrigerator magnets with the number of the nearest faith healer.
Thats infinitely better than getting killed by some untouchable bureaucrats.
I know you people worship the State, but its not some magical being. It's just a bunch of low IQ midwits to chickenshit to work in a merit based system. And these are the worse kinds to grant power too. It's like the French Revolution all over again. A bunch of retarded ugly people enviously attacking their betters.
Two thoughts on the pork case. One, Gorsuch is a talented writer, his opinions are a pleasure to read. Two, Gorsuch made a good point that Congress can act to do what the pork producers wanted the Court to do. That is a very healthy approach both as to the Constitution in general and the Commerce Clause in particular.
100% agree!
Justice Gorsuch:
If, as petitioners insist, California’s law really does threaten a “massive” disruption of the pork industry, see Brief for Petitioners 2, 4, 19—if pig husbandry really does “‘imperatively demand’” a single uniform nationwide rule, id., at 27—they are free to petition Congress to intervene. Under the (wakeful) Commerce Clause, that body enjoys the power to adopt federal legislation that may preempt conflicting state laws. That body is better equipped than this Court to identify and assess all the pertinent economic and political interests at play across the country.
The stuff about Lochner is well written too, as well as when he quotes the 17th Century Massachusetts animal cruelty statute.
I could not disagree more. Gorsuch clearly think he's a talented writer, and I'm sure he derives a lot of pleasure reading his own opinions, but he'd be better off recognizing his limitations and writing things in a normal style. His efforts to dazzle consistently fall short, and only illustrate the gulf between his abilities and those of the real greats (e.g. Roberts, Kagan, or Scalia).
"penal-tax" Roberts great? Hopefully that was unintentional irony, it's really the best kind.
According to the syllabus, Barrett did not join in section IV-C. So, only Thomas joined the opinion in full.
Looks like nobody dissented in full.
“. . . in which a unanimous Court . . . .”
Not counting the Pork decision which is messy, the other decisions were three out of four times with the fourth being 8 – 1.
"Santos-Zacaria has already been removed from the US twice before and lost [its] bid before an immigration judge and before the board of immigration appeals. [It] sought to appeal [its] deportation before the 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals but was blocked from doing so when the court said [it] had not exhausted remedies available to [it] in the immigration proceedings." [emphasis added]
This is unmitigated bullshyte!!!!
It has already been sent home TWICE and this is the THIRD TIME it has been caught being here illegally.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/supreme-court-sides-with-transgender-woman-from-guatemala-in-asylum-dispute/ar-AA1b3Jbh
That would be an argument for losing on the merits. That is not a valid argument for refusing to hear the case on specious jurisdictional grounds.
So? What does that have to do with anything?
When Gorsucks started running for Scalia’s seat he chose to highlight his opinion in De Niz Robles, giving an invader a third bite at the apple even though the BIA had correctly ruled that in cases like DNR’s Congress had decided that those removed were not to be given ANY rehearing until they had been out of the country for ten years. This was on the basis that regulatory judges were not to be allowed to overrule real judges on decided cases even if the regulatory judges’ decisions were to prevail in cases going forward. So why this scofflaw is to be heard rather than peremptorily removed again without a rehearing, as Congress intended, is unclear to me.
I will add that what Gorsucks ruled should be allowed in DNR's case was merely an appeal to the Secretary of Homeland Security, not another hearing on removal.
I haven't read into this case, but it's puzzling.
...an appeal for special dispensation, btw, not a re-hearing on the previously ordered removal. So, unless 10 years have passed since the removal was last ordered this is a puzzler.
Our Supreme Court addressed the Petitioner as 'she' as in, " She sought protection from removal . . . ."
Yet you can't for some reason.
Probably because the Petitioner is a guy.
Then why did he say "it" rather than "he"?
Because i've had enough of this bullshit.
You seem like a miserable human being — as well as a miserable excuse for one. You live a fantasy life where you do important things on a college campus, and you masturbate to the idea of shooting Mexicans.
He was making fun of your pronoun fetish, moron.
Yeah, no. Ed’s not having any fun these days.
I don't think you really have any grasp of my views on any subject, other than perhaps my contempt for your lack of intellect and honesty.
"Can't" and "won't" are not the same word. The tranny is still a guy, with or without some of his parts, and SCOTUS has no competence to force anyone to think otherwise.
Is that the parent company (or a subsidiary of) Kitara Ravache?
What is the binding precedent in the pork case beyond "California may enforce this exact law"? What novel principles got five votes?
That's still what puzzles me - how exactly does California intend to enforce that law? Who exactly does it enforce it against?
"It is worth noting that these last two opinions — Percoco and Ciminell — continue the Court's recent trend of narrowing the applicability of federal laws used to prosecute political corruption."
News for those who hope Trump will go to federal prison for asking Pence and Raffensperger to do something wrong.
Who hope Trump will go to federal prison for asking Pence and Raffensperger to do something that could be interpreted as something wrong, if you were so inclined.
All he asked of Raffensperger was access to look at the ballots, and hopefully confirm that some of them were invalid. Nothing he said actually compels the conclusion that he was asking Raffensperger to manufacture votes. Heck, his actual words barely even admit that interpretation, if you assume he was doing a lot of winking and air quotes over the phone.
I actually think he was asking Pence to do something wrong, but not appreciable more wrong than a lot of things that now get treated as legitimate to do; Shit that stuck to the wall years ago is still shit somebody threw on the wall to see if it would stick. It's pretty nervy to try to throw somebody in prison for throwing another bucket to see if it stays up there, too.
Po’ folk better start contemplating life without bacon or Easter ham.
Let them eat bugs!!
I suspect it's going to be pretty easy to just order online.
If California can collect sales taxes on online sales don't see why they can't prosecute sellers of illegal bacon. Must already be applied to, e.g., ammo clips.
As a practical matter it's just not possible to police. I've had lots of otherwise unobtainable rare liquor shipped here to PA in complete contravention of state law.
As a practical matter, you don't need to police every buyer in the state.
You just need to police the big ones: grocery stores. And those? You can certainly police.
It's actually like Texas's ban on sex toys. Sure, there's ways around it, but you still won't see vibrating cock-rings on the shelves at Walgreens.
If the law forces all American producers to modify their operations to sell in California, it won’t just impact California. All pork across the country will be 20% more expensive (or whatever, I forgot the exact estimate).
There’ll be no cheap online pork to order online, unless you want to risk buying Mexican pork, assuming they want to risk smuggling charges to do it. Montezuma’s Revenge delivered by FedEx!
Ladies and gentlemen, here are your American progressives, looking out for the marginal and oppressed. Making them healthier because Junebugs create a lot less cholesterol than pork does.
Yeah, who cares how cruelly animals get treated, as long as we get our cheap pork.
You and I will be fine. We’ll pay what we need to pay.
The issue is those that aren’t cash flow neutral now in a 5-9% inflation world. They have no room to pay more. I’m concerned about them. I guess I’m not progressive enough to ignore the poor.
The poor of California need maximally low pork prices!
This could be bad policy, but don’t concern troll.
Fuck off on whatever concern troll even means. It seems as you don’t think my concern is legitimate but you’re full of shit as usual.
Just like the guy yesterday who was a bigot for helping the migrants.
That’s why we call you the ad hominem man.
The pigmen should never have gone to court.
Just stop selling pork in CA until the state comes to its senses.
Total money loss would be less than all the litigation and bullshit.
When the bacon stops, the recalls begin.
We often talk about a divided court yet I noted that 3 of the 5 cases were decided unanimously.
That's been true for years. SCOTUS will settle most cases at 7-2 or higher.
Those cases, coincidentally, rarely have an obvious partisan angle.
It is worth noting that these last two opinions — Percoco and Ciminelli—continue the Court's recent trend of narrowing the applicability of federal laws used to prosecute political corruption.
I'm sure that won't have any adverse consequences in the future...
I'm curious if anyone knows if swine are individually numbered and tracked like cattle? Seems it would make tracking and compliance verification more feasible.
I can't speak with certainty, but given the ability to back-track from "these people got sick from tained meat bought at the local Stop 'n' Shop" to "ah, this one pig farm in Iowa", they can demonstrably track lots. And I mean that by both definitions.
Yeah, that's a lot and a date. Cows you can usually trace to an individual animal.
Sure.
But the lot tracking is sufficient for this purpose, as long as the initial lots are segregated based on CA-compliant and other.
I agree with the majority generally. But one argument struck me particularly. If the minority had prevailed, then small states would be able to regulate the sale of products in their states that large states couldn’t, because the small states’ impact on other states would be less. This would violate constitution’s guarantee of equal sovereignty among states.
Is there any evidence that bacon consumers -- especially consumers in an advanced, successful state such as California, the consumers to whom the California statute is most relevant -- favor shitty treatment of animals in backward states?
If they cared about that the coercive law wouldn't be needed because if California regulated its own pigs they could just restrict themselves voluntarily to buying those.
it's not like you can't get "free range" chicken eggs at Safeway if you want to.
You just pay more for them. CA wants to set the rules and have everyone pay for it.
You are overthinking California voters. They wanted to wave a magic wand and turn pigs' frowns upside down until they were slaughtered.
Massachusetts voters approved rules for cage-free eggs that almost caused a severe shortage. The legislature intervened at the last minute to relax the voter-approved rules. The new rules are shared by a few other states and the big producers are willing to lay eggs that meet the bloc's standards. Like the California law, the Massachusetts law restricts in-state sales based on out-of-state activity.
To the contrary, banning the sale of out-of-state pork merely on the basis that it was out-of-state would be unconstitutional.
Consumers the nation over primarily care about price. If they didn't Whole Foods would be the dominant grocery store chain.
By what metric is California "successful"?
Economically. Population. Education. Free use of cannabis.
It’s got it’s issues, but don’t be a clown.
Yep, doing swell
https://babylonbee.com/news/texas-builds-600-miles-of-border-wall-using-u-haul-trucks-from-california
How's the California Gini index these days - indicative of success?
What a dick.
Let’s pour one out for the pork consumers who prefer salmonella and trichinosis to safe foods…
Now, now, those are natural and organic, so Californians have nothing to worry about!
Actually, they literally send inspectors into other states to check on farmer Bob.
No, for the pork law in question.
No, what I actually think should be decisive is if the state is regulating an actual property of the product being sold within its own borders, or an incidental bit of history of that product that took place outside its borders.
For petroleum, California regulates the actual chemical composition, not the production process. Something that is actually a property of the product, can be measured by tests occurring inside of California.
For the pork, they're not regulating any actual physical property of the pork, they're regulating history occurring outside their border. That's why they're using inspectors in other states: Compliance with the law can NOT be determined by any conceivable test conducted on the pork.
So, they're not actually regulating the pork. They're regulating conduct occurring outside of California, and using the sale of pork within California as leverage to impose that regulation on conduct that should, I think, legally be outside their reach.
Nothing, in principle, stops them from using the same process to impose minimum wage laws on other states, for instance, or regulating a lot of other things businesses outside California do outside California.
"1. So a state could not prohibit the sale of goods from another in another state?"
I think there must be something you're getting at here that I'm missing.
2. Just the territorial nature of the jurisdiction of state governments. Same reason you can go to Vegas, and your home state can't stop you from gambling, hitting a brothel while you're there, and bringing home your winnings.
3. Actual property is an objective fact.
Yeah, citation.
Under what authority could out of state inspectors enter someones business in another state to insure compliance?
At the international level we have a policy like that for drugs. The FDA would like to inspect your factory in Germany or India to make sure it meets American standards. You can refuse, subject to local law. The FDA can ban import of drugs from your uninspected factory.
CA to distributors: you can't sell shit here unless we can inspect your suppliers
distributors to farmers: we won't buy your shit unless you let the nice government people look at everything