The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
New Report on State Standing in Student Loan Case Comes Up A Few Dollars Short
A new report purporting to show that Missouri's arguments for standing in Nebraska v. Biden are based on a lie fails to deliver.
Biden v. Nebraska, the legal challenge to the Biden Administration's student loan forgiveness program, is likely to be decided on standing. If the justices reach the merits, there is little question they will conclude that Congress did not authorize this sort of wholesale loan forgiveness by executive branch decree. But it is not clear that the justices will reach the merits, as it is not clear the plaintiffs have standing.
This week, the Roosevelt Institute and the Debt Collective issued a new report purporting to challenge the factual basis for state standing in Nebraska v. Biden. Specifically, the report purported to show that Missouri's argument that it has standing because student loan forgiveness will cause MOHELA -- a student loan servicer created by Missouri -- "to lose financial revenue, thereby harming the state" is "fundamentally false."
Progressive commentators rushed to proclaim that the report blew a hole in the arguments for state standing to challenge student loan forgiveness. Tori Otten of The New Republic proclaimed that the report shows "the main argument at the heart of the lawsuit is utterly false." University of Texas law professor Steve Vladeck tweeted that the study revealed "MOHELA won't be injured by the program at all" (emphasis in original).
The entire (untested) theory of standing in the red state challenge to President Biden's student loan debt relief program is based on a claimed injury to MOHELA. Even if that would be enough (and it shouldn't be), it turns out that MOHELA won't be injured by the program *at all.* https://t.co/ZNmTV1jBex
— Steve Vladeck (@steve_vladeck) May 2, 2023
Yet if one reads the study, one sees that it shows no such thing. To the contrary, it demonstrates quite conclusively that the Biden Administration's student loan forgiveness plan will result in MOHELA receiving millions of dollars less in revenue than it would have otherwise. Whether or not harms to MOHELA should be considered harms to Missouri, there is no way to read the report as showing that MOHELA "won't be injured at all" by student loan forgiveness.
The report's key claims is that "After President Biden's proposal is enacted, MOHELA's direct loan revenue will actually be larger than at any prior point in the company's existence, doubling from the previous year." This is a carefully worded claim, phrased in terms of sequence, rather than causality. This is no accident, for while the report documents that MOHELA's revenues have increased in recent years (due to factors that may relate to other debt-relief initiatives but have nothing to do with the loan forgiveness plan at issue in the case), it also shows conclusively that MOHELA will lose millions of dollars if student loan forgiveness is upheld because MOHELA receives significantly more in servicing fees than from the one-time fees associated with loan termination.
As shown in the report's Appendix 3, MOHELA projects to lose over $5 million per month in service fee revenues from loan forgiveness -- an approximately 40 percent decline in such revenue. This is not offset by termination fees. As the report also notes, MOHELA gets $24-$35 per year per loan in service fees (based on a $2 or $2.90 per month fee), as compared to a one-time $11.49 loan discharge fee. Forgiving student loans will cause MOHELA's revenue to be lower than it would be if loans are not forgiven.
Despite these facts, the authors still try to claim that it is false to say "MOHELA will lose money" from loan cancellation. This is silliness. As the facts presented in the report amply demonstrate, student loan forgiveness will cause MOHELA's revenues to be substantially lower than they would otherwise be. The authors of the report are essentially trying to argue that because MOHELA revenues are higher than they used to be, it does not matter that, without loan cancellation, they would be higher still. This is not only nonsensical, it also fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the relevant legal inquiry.
The most one could make of the report's findings is a claim that, because MOHELA revenues are up, significant financial losses to MOHELA will not result in financial harm to Missouri. Whether this argument works, however, depends on how one conceives of the Missouri-MOHELA relationship and Missouri's ability to sue over harms to MOHELA.
The states' brief argues harms to MOHELA are harms to Missouri for two reasons:
(1) MOHELA is a Missouri-created and -controlled public instrumentality, so its
harms are harms to the State; and(2) MOHELA's losses jeopardize its financial contributions to Missouri.
The first of these claims is not even implicated by the report's findings. What about the second one? According to the states' brief, MOHELA owes over $105 million to the state's Lewis and Clark Discovery Fund and also contributes substantial sums (approximately $100 million over the past twelve years) to various state scholarship and grant programs within the state. This provides a basis for standing, the states claim, because a substantial reduction in MOHELA's revenue will reduce MOHELA's ability to provide such funding going forward. Contrary to what the study authors suggest, their findings do nothing to undermine this argument.
Reasonable people can differ on whether the harms to MOHELA are sufficient to establish Missouri's standing in this case. Will Baude and Sam Bray, for instance, think there is no standing here. Given how solicitous courts have become to state standing claims I disagree, but it is certainly a close case. Ilya Somin is more bullish on standing (see also here and here), though he also supports far looser standing rules across the board. What is not reasonable, however, is to claim that this report somehow eviscerates the arguments for standing in Biden v. Nebraska, or to claim they are based on "lies."
To recap: There is no question that the Biden Administration's student loan forgiveness results in MOHELA losing millions of dollars in loan processing fees that it would otherwise have received, and it is undisputed that MOHELA's net revenue is supposed to serve state purposes. These facts create serious arguments for standing that have not been undermined in the least by the latest report. To the contrary, the report documents the veracity of the claim that student loan forgiveness will reduce MOHELA revenues. There are serious arguments to make against state standing in Biden v. Nebraska, but they are not to be found in this report.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
So Lefty is blatantly, shamelessly lying again. In other news, water is wet.
The headline needs a fix.
Adler doesn't proofread anything. He just shitposts and runs. Every single one of his posts has multiple glaring typos, and they are never corrected.
What on earth are you talking about? Are you confusing Blackman and Adler?
He's right about the typos, which are omnipresent and sometimes egregious - I've seen Adler omit a word in such a way as to reverse the meaning of the sentence. I generally respect his arguments and writing even though I often disagree, so I think "shitposting" is pretty unfair.
Blackman, on the other hand, makes relatively few typos but has his facts wrong unreasonably often and does shitpost sometimes, often in manic bursts.
I don't think Blackman ever "shitposts". Maybe "tofuposts"; You know, sort of "Why did you bother?", not "Man, that stinks".
The headline was fixed.
trying to argue that because MOHELA revenues are higher than they used to be, it does not matter that, without loan cancellation, they would be higher still. This is non only non-sensical….
But maybe worth trying out in court if you’re up for burglary ?
“Your Honor, the guy made $500,000 in gains on the stock market this year. All I did is take a lousy five hundred from his desk. He’s not poorer, he’s richer !”
Tell your lawyer to hire Steve Vladeck as a consultant for your defense.
Suppose uour bank sues the burglar, claiming that because the burglar took $500, you won’t be able to pay your loan.
Does the bank have standing to sue? If you made $500,000 in the stock market, then your loss of $500 won’t inhibit your ability to pay the bank back. So the bank hasn’t suffered any injury.
Someone remind me why Missouri rather than MOHELA is litigating this ?
(1) MOHELA is a Missouri-created and -controlled public instrumentality, so its
harms are harms to the State; and
(2) MOHELA's losses jeopardize its financial contributions to Missouri.
I was wondering same, and the above post does not answer it.
Because Missouri is a State. I suggest you consult the Constitution and precedent for how this affects federal jurisdiction and the issues that can be addressed. MOHELA’s damages, to the extent that it is not the State of Missouri, could be addressed by awarding damages if Federal law consents to that. Missouri’s presumably cannot be so cabined.
Because at it's heart, it's political.
Certainly a reasonably intelligent court can see through thst argument. If this report is the best argument as to standing that the defenders can come up with as to standing then they will almost certainly lose. The fallacy in the report is flagrantly obvious.
You are still imagining that court decisions reliably have anything to do with the presence or absence of intelligence on the bench?
This is a stupid argument for standing, it is true.
What is not stupid is a colossal, massive, monumental abuse of power and spending, a facetious fraud, and a cowardly, supine Congress who doesn't want to do their job, and ponder the spending of half a trillion dollars.
The liars and frauds. The stinking liars and frauds, and the jackasses in courts who are really, really confused as to what a controversy is.
"But...but..." the responses will come. What part of "frauds and liars" don't you understand?
"But you don't..."
Frauds and liars.
"But..."
Frauds and liars.
I make no claim on the wisdom of it as policy. Perhaps you missed the part above how the cowardly Congress should do it's job.
"Aha! But they did...!"
Frauds and liars.
" Perhaps you missed the part above how the cowardly Congress should do it’s job."
They did: They didn't pass Biden's student loan forgiveness plan. Deciding whether or not to enact something is Congress' job, which they can perform by failing to act on a proposal, as much as by acting on it.
IOW, the President doesn't get to usurp Congressional authority just because Congress failed to affirmatively direct that he not usurp it.
Very long way to say you're coming from emotion and don't care about facts or arguments.
Even Brett is dunking on you.
What’s interesting about this argument is that the legal independence of corporations as separate persons was something conservatives claimed was so obvious to everyone that a conservative Supreme Court found that corporations have an independent constitutional right to make their own campaign contributions.
Yet today, many of this blog’s most conservative commentators haven’t even noticed the idea that MOHELA’s corporate status might make it legally separate from Missouri, so that its losses could not be directly attributed to Missouri. If MOHELA is legally independent, then Missouri has standing only if MOHELA’s loss will impair its obligations to Missouri, makiing MOHELA’s other revenue highly relevant.
Yet the idea that corporations are legally separate beings, which so animated Citizens United, is here nowhere to be found. It’s only because it never entered Bevis the Lumberjack’s mind that corporations might be considered legally separate from their owners, with their losses separate not their owners’ losses, that it could have occurred to Bevis the Lumberjack to characterize the idea that MOHELA’s losses wouldn’t result in a loss to Missouri as obviously stupid and absurd. The whole issue that animated Cotizens United never entered Bevis the Lumberjack’s head.
The fact that these conservative commentators never noticed the possible legal independence of corporations is some extensive it doesn’t really have deep foundations in our society, suggesting Citizens United was wrongly decided.
Or are corporations legally separate only when it’s convenient for them to be legally separate, when regardimg them as separate will lead to the desired result and not otherwise?
This is not to say that MOHELA definitely is legally separate. The answer to that may involve a complicated question of law. But after Citizens United, the argument that it is legally separate is never a patently absurd argument.
This just creates another liberal talking point to be used after the 2024 elections when Biden will be re-elected and the Dems control both the House and the Senate. The Supreme Court will rule in favor of Missouri. This will be another "outrage" to justify Schumer pushing the Dem majority in the Senate to kill the filibuster, for Congress to pass a bill enlarging the Supreme Court with four (or maybe even six) justices picked by Biden's handlers.
Then we will see a whole wish list of Dem proposals become law. Same-day voter registration and voting will be ruled to be a fundamental Constitutional right. The same for ballot harvesting. We may even see a variety of procedural impediments imposed on the Republican party (if it is not outlawed altogether for its role in supporting the January 6th insurrection). The "Progressive" majority on the Supreme Court will rule that all of this is constitutional. The Supreme Court will also rule that government-corporation partnerships limiting speech do not violate the First Amendment.
So everyone had better start using VPNs and scrubbing their online presence. The FBI/CIA/NSA/DHS will be looking for anyone criticizing the self-designated political elite.
Or what you imagine happening in 2024 may be wrong.
This is not really a very good Democratic wish list.
More of a list of things someone who prefers thinking of people who want like universal health care not as wrong, but as having a primary mission to persecute him.
Like the Jacobins they want to persecute EVERYONE, including each other.
Hopefully that leads to civil war.
Lord, what an active imagination. That's a lot of fear packed into a couple of paragraphs. Let me guess ... you're armed
"New Report on State State Standing in Student Loan Case Comes Up A Few Dollars Short"
Calling the Department of Redundancy Department.
College tuition is the dumbest thing ever invented—let’s make 18 year olds pay $200k for college! The best colleges (like my alma mater) are tuition free for students from middle class families. Harvard and Yale should give all of Epstein’s donations to HBCUs to make them free everything and then we should get rid of diversity and student loans.
Nobody except foreigners pays sticker price. And the prices charged are BECAUSE of student loans. Which will probably never be repaid except by real suckers.
Congress could solve these problems overnight. Refuse to guarantee loans at any university that increases prices more than 2% a year, and hold for 20 years.
This will slowly and comfortably ratched back the fast growth in college costs that nickle dimed us up over decades.
We're in this state because l, like adding a super $2000 radio to a car purchase, people will resist. But a few extra tens of dollars a month on the loan, sign me up! 8% increase this year, sigh me up!
So with all this guaranteed stuff, everyone rockets off a cliff, confident in the knowledge government will pick up the pieces.
The real question is, do they expect this all along?
What percentage of loans are private?
The guarantees are never private.
Eliminate all student aid and you'll see the price become reasonable very quickly.
No, what's a lie is the idea that the founders intended the federal government to grow to the size it did and for the states that created it to have no standing to challenge illegality.
1. Missouri's derivative standing theory is way overbroad.
2. MOHELA would appear to have standing - injury, causality, and redressability all work.
3. The Biden administration does not cite an appropriate statute giving the executive authority to cancel federal loans.
4. Student loan cancellation is good policy
5. Standing is, generally, good policy, and constitutionally required
6. As it is with Establishment Clause actions, standing should be relaxed in cases where the authority for a sweeping governmental action should be reviewable, even if there is no one formally injured.
7. Sweeping is a really bad requirement - akin to whether a question is major. Still working on that.
"Student loan cancellation is good policy"
So good it can't pass either house of Congress. So good it took the Executive doing it without statutory authority. Idealism: now for domestic policy, too!
Someone with as out of the mainstream opinions as you shouldn't really roll populism as an argument.
College loan forgiveness can't even manage 50% approval rating (46% yes or no opinion) as of the last Harris poll.
That number drops to about 30% when the question first includes how much it would cause each person to pay for it - and that is almost entirely among 18-25 year olds.
And your opinion aside, do you actually have any evidence that "student loan cancellation is good policy" like you claim?
And your opinion aside, do you actually have any evidence that “student loan cancellation is good policy” like you claim?
It's an opinion, not a factual statement. Notably, your ad popularum argument is irrelevant to either.
It's a problem around here to distort one's opinion into factual truth. A disease of ideologues.
I'll give argument not evidence:
I think it is good policy because I believe that 1) loan burden has inhibited economic activity for a lot of younger folks, and 2) the debt increase is a drop in the bucket to a number that does not matter as much as many on here believe.
Do I have facts to back those opinions up? Not really; half-remembered conversations, articles I could not recall the name or publication. It's an opinion.
Pretty rich for you to declare ad popularum "irrelevant" after introducing it with the characterization of Kleppe as "out of the mainstream".
But Gaslightr0 knows no shame.
Kleppe was making an ad popularum argument. I pointed out that leaning on that fallacy is extra dumb coming from him.
No, you would have been pointing out a fallacy if you had raised the point that the popularity of a policy is not required to have any relation to the effectiveness, desirability, or wisdom of the policy.
What you did was perform ad hominem while also incorrectly suggesting that "student loan cancellation" was popular.
Where did I suggest student loan cancelation was popular?
Where did I use the ad hominem fallacy?
Well, I was giving you credit for your post being an attempt at argument, but from your response here, that is a mistake.
It would have been an ad hominem by claiming that Kleppe's argument was invalid because of some other, unspecified, opinions you think he holds.
But since you now say here that you were not trying to make an argument, that means that you just posted to be a jerk.
Personally, I would have chosen to admit I'd made a bad argument. But hey, if you want to advertise that the reason you posted your response to Kleppe was that you wanted to be an asshole, then go ahead. You do you!
This is a pretty sad display.
I point out that you objections don't apply to my argument, you try for bluster rather than engagement.
I make the following arguments: "I think it is good policy because I believe that 1) loan burden has inhibited economic activity for a lot of younger folks, and 2) the debt increase is a drop in the bucket to a number that does not matter as much as many on here believe."
If you want to disagree with my argument, I recommend starting there.
...
You are, indeed, making a sad display.
Since my comment kept referencing Kleppe, I assumed you would be able to understand that I was addressing your post that was in response to Kleppe. You either utterly failed to understand that, or chose to deliberately ignore it.
I'm using the comment at the top of this thread you are commenting in.
Kleppe isn't even in it.
Bottom line, as you agree, is that there is no authority for Biden to do it. Not a great look for Biden, but he really doesn’t care and nobody is gonna force him to.
Maybe some form of it is a good policy, but not as proposed. First, it needs to be for everyone or no one. You know, equality under the law and all.
More importantly, to propose to do this while ignoring the structural problems that cause this debt to pile up is wasted effort. Like a finger in the dike. I spent the last decade putting four kids through college and the costs are outrageous. There’s a good case that a lot of it is due to admin bloat - including but not nearly limited to your beloved DEI. College costs need to be forced back down somehow. By a lot. I’m not sure of a specific solution but it needs to be done instead of just wiping out the debt of a privileged few and just jamming more people into the fucked up system.
Um, yeah. Some things would be nice, but are not allowed under our system.
I think I was quite clear this is one of those things.
I also never said that the issues with student loans would be addressed by this.
In other words, this is a combination of furious agreeing with me and telling me what I think and being wrong about it.
I never said that you said issues with student loans would be addressed by this. I never thought you said that. I didn’t disagree with you at all, but you seem to want to grouse anyway.
My point about not fixing the problem was a criticism of the administration’s policy. They’re like a repairman who comes In because you have water stains on your ceiling because your roof leaks and they repaint your ceiling without repairing your roof. If you don’t fix the root problem it’s just gonna keep happening.
Blaming Biden for our educational loan policy also seems a bit overtuned. That’s way before him, and will require Congress to fix.
Biden was in the Senate for 50 years.
Just as a reminder.
Cancellation is a band aid on a wound that needs 200 stitches.
It rewards grotesquely bad behavior in the loan and education industries, which worked hand in hand to grow costs multiples of the rate of inflation, everyone knowing when it collapses, government guarantees the loans anyway. So who cares?
And here we are.
All Congress has to do is not guarantee loans to any student at any institution that increases fees more than 2% in a year. And hold. That will slowly reverse this process.
It doesn't reward the loan or education industries.
It is a bandaid; more reform is needed. Probably should have added that above.
All Congress has to do is not guarantee loans to any student at any institution that increases fees more than 2% in a year. And hold.
Whenever you think the solution is simple, check again - it rarely is.
A sudden change of policy on student loans creates some pretty big inequities and economic shocks. I also think the private loan industry is a nontrivial part of the problem.
"All Congress has to do is not guarantee loans ..."
Congress should not be in the business of guaranteeing any loans.
Education is a public good.
While I do think the current policy needs reform, your reflexive market worship is not well suited for this sector.
Congress should not be in the business of guaranteeing ANY loans!
The US government should have the full panoply of funding vehicles available to it as it does the People's business - contracts, grants, prizes, loan guarantees, scholarships, other transactions, etc.
Given the financial relationship at issue here, given that education is a public good, loan guarantees seem well tailored to address a risk a gap in the market lower/middle class folks seeking an education.
Maybe it isn't, but it's certainly within the bounds of policy considerations.
Third time is the charm?
Congress should not be in the business of guaranteeing ANY loans!
Ok, so you don’t care about facts or policy, just want to signal how pure your ideologue credentials are.
Boring.
No, the government can't be trusted with more "tools" than strictly necessary. That's the fact you determinedly refuse to acknowledge.
Sarcastr0 9 hours ago Flag Comment Mute User Education is a public good.
good education is good – Such as the hard sciences, indoctrination and Social sciences not so much
The education establishment is who benefited from the liberal student loan program. Education establishment being the schools, the professors and the administrators. The isolation from any risk of credit loss provided the education establishment with exceptional benefits.
If forgiving the debt is good policy, then letting the education establishment absorb the losses instead of the taxpayers would also be good policy.
Student loan forgiveness is bad policy, and a giveaway to rich people, at the cost to poor people. Here’s why.
1. People will college loans are overwhelmingly better off than people who don’t have them. 2. College loans serve the purpose of withdrawing excess money from the economy. Important during times of high inflation. Like today. 3. College loan forgiveness has perverse effects on people, as they will “expect” loans to be forgiven in the future, encouraging people taking on excess debt, because it will be “free”
You might as well have a policy that just said “We’re going to give everyone who makes between $100,000 and $300,000 a year an extra $100,000 and we’re going to pay for it all with debt. Inflation will rise another 3% as a result, lowering everyone’s real wages by 3%.”
But it’s a good Democrat policy, because it shovels money towards people who tend to vote Democrat, at the cost to those bad Republican voters.
College loans serve the purpose of withdrawing excess money from the economy
They do not do this.
College loan forgiveness has perverse effects on people, as they will “expect” loans to be forgiven in the future
Not in evidence.
You might as well have a policy that just said
Untrue, which is why you switched from loans to this other thing.
it’s a good Democrat policy, because it shovels money towards people who tend to vote Democrat
Republicans go to school too. At least for now.
“College loans serve the purpose of withdrawing excess money from the economy They do not do this.”
Of course they do this, (in terms of the repayments of the loans). If you don’t understand this, you don’t understand economics 101. Your opinion on the rest of this is based on faulty reasoning.
Let’s put this in the most simple terms for you. 1. The government loans Joe $100,000 for college. To fund this, the government prints $100,000 in $100 bills. This inserts $100,000 into the economy. 2. Joe pays back the government $100,000 in $100 bills. The government destroys these bills. That removes the money from the economy.
If you take out step 2, the money is never removed from the economy.
Except we don't do step 2. Money paid to the government is not destroyed. The government is a part of the economy.
Is this some supply side nonsense? That's been proven wrong for like 30 years.
This is not "supply side nonsense". This is basic economics. The fact that you misinterpret basic concepts like the money supply as "supply side nonsense" indicates that you have zero understanding of basic economics.
Educate yourself.
Wait. Supply side economics has been proven wrong for 30 years? How so?
There was huge, almost uninterrupted economic growth for 20+ years after Reagan instituted “supply side economics”, whatever the fuck you take that to actually mean. I think you’re just mad because he reduced tax rates.
At any rate, a historically long period of economic growth does not disprove anything. Personally, I think the growth happened because interest rates dropped from historical highs to historical lows across the period, which doesn’t prove or disprove any economic philosophy. But unlike you I don’t have a political axe to grind.
AL, if you think that is basic macroecon you are missing something fundamental, because that’s wrong. And being an asshole about it doesn’t make you less wrong.
bevis - it’s otherwise known as trickle down. There’s a reason it’s a dirty word these days. Look up either supply side or trickle down in any economics journal.
I just Googled and there are many examples. Data shows corporate profits going up and stock buybacks after each tax cut and outlays not really doing much.
Kansas seems the best object lesson recently in this being a giveaway for the rich that the rich disguise as sound economics.
Income disparity is not related to tax rates. Look up disparity by state. New York is #1, the highest disparity in the country. Fellow hi tax states California, Connecticut and Massachusetts are 3, 4, and 6. Disparity appears to be independent of taxes.
The disparity has increased across that time due to globalization. The driver of higher corporate income in that time has been lower labor costs. People in Vietnam and slave labor in China is far cheaper than workers here. Pay went up accordingly for the management class - our business “elite” while our labor class got their balks cut off.
No offense but you’re mixing correlation and causation. And the phenomenon caused by the globalization effect is causing political unrest all over the western world. Brexit. The MAGA Trump populists. People feel like they got screwed and after 25 years or so they’re lashing out.
The supply siders are the ones claiming a causal link. That’s been pretty disproven.
I don’t know why you went international. We are talking domestic policy. And reactionary MAGA idiots are likewise not part of the scope here.
If globalism has rendered domestic economic policy moot, that seems to just prove my case about student loans.
Sarcastro,
This is basic economics, in terms of the money supply. You've had multiple people in this post tell you you're wrong and that you don't know what you're talking about. The government regulates the money supply by adding money to (and withdrawing money from) the money supply. I gave a very simplified example for you. And yes, the government does actually destroy currency.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/the-destruction-of-money-who-does-it-why-when-and-how/236990/
Perhaps you've got a magic world where everyone else is wrong, and only Sarcastro is right about basic economics.
Yea the government destroys physical cash sometimes for practical reasons.
That is nothing like what you were talking about regarding loans.
Sarcastro,
Before we can continue this discussion, you're going to need to make it clear you have a basic understanding of the money supply, what it is, and how the government adds and removes money from the money supply, and the effects of this.
So, go ahead. Do that. Define the money supply. Describe how the government can add money to the money supply. Describe how the government can remove money from the money supply. I've provided one link that demonstrates this already.
Or don't, and continue in your ignorance.
I know what the money supply is. I'm not sure you do - do you think loan payments are being taken out of circulation and not sent out into the market by government spending?
Tell me, what are my opinions?
Your opinion that it matters that student loan cancellation can’t get passed in judging whether doing so is “in the mainstream” is out of the mainstream if the mainstream is defined as whatever side eddy of the left Gaslightr0 is putrefying away in.
IIRC, you are the one who thinks the government is no different from a protection racket, and there can be no government efforts that are not primarily corrupt.
IOW you are not just small government, you are actively 'all government is evil'. You had some label as well, anarcho-something.
That would be quite hypocritical of me, considering I've worked for the government for the last two decades. Please keep mindreading out of policy duscussions; it isn't persuasive.
I tend to have a decent memory for these things, at least compared to many on this site.
But I could absolutely misremember.
Nevertheless, I would suspect that you, a poster on reason.com, and one who calls Prof. Adler a shitposter, has plenty of views that are not popular winners.
The point is that you should understand that something being unpopular does not mean it's wrong, and vice versa.
"The point is that you should understand that something being unpopular does not mean it’s wrong, and vice versa."
This is a strawman. You said "student loan cancellation is good policy" and I disputed that by highlighting its unpopularity. The correct inference to draw is that I consider the relative popularity of a policy as a factor when evaluating its subjective quality. A policy being "right" or "wrong" has no bearing on either your initial comment or my response to it. Furthermore, I think everyone understands that a policy can be both popular and wrong; history is replete with such examples.
You say both that popularity is an element to consider in determining a policy’s merit and that it is not.
Now you are muddying the waters by conflating good/bad with right/wrong. Your first comment opined that a policy proposal was "good" and I replied within your chosen frame (i.e., good/bad). Then your response shifted to the right/wrong frame. As I just said above, these are not synonymous; a "good" policy can be "wrong", and a "bad" policy can be "right". Good/bad is means-focused while right/wrong is ends-focused.
Good policy, quality policy, right policy, these are distinctions without differences.
Anarcho-tyranny is a sound concept, but doesn't relate to what you are describing But, yes, all government is evil, but it is also to some extent unavoidable. You will be the victim of SOME protection racket if you rid yourself of the current one.
Now tell me about the U of Hawaii's standing to challenge Trump's "Muslim Ban".
MOHELA has standing, but what remedy is it entitled to?
Let's do mortgage cancellation first.
I'm not sure I understand why McCarthy didn't have the House seek to join the suit as an intervenor. Precedent clearly gives the House standing.
But maybe he's got something ready to go to get it back in the courts and get an injunction if the Supreme Court wants to punt on this one.
Which precedent are you thinking of?
Somin points to this one: https://reason.com/volokh/2020/09/26/dc-circuit-rules-house-of-representatives-has-standing-to-challenge-trumps-diversion-of-funds-to-build-his-border-wall/
At the time the suits against loan forgiveness were filed, the Democrats led the House.
Now, nobody involved in this litigation wants to create a situation where the suit will be dropped if the Democrats regain the House.
-dk
So if a state tax cut causes payday lenders to lose money, does that give them federal standing to argue that this violates the First Amendment, since it reduces their tithing to their church?
Brain eating amoeba strikes.
That's supposed to be a good analogy to what?
Ok so there’s theoretical (minimal) loss as to MOHELA. But that is hardly the motivation for this suit; these folks are obviously not interested in more kids going to college. The result of their lawsuit, if successful, is that fewer kids will go.
They had to do a lot of ransacking of hardware stores to find this nail to hang their hat on.
The loss is not theoretical.
Minimal is in the eye of the beholder.
And losing millions of dollars in a month is easily a reason to sue. You don’t have any reason to believe there’s a different motivation other than your political lean.
MOHELA isn't suing.
Missouri is losing the money, in the end.
But I agree that that is not why Missouri is suing. It merely establishes Missouri’s standing to sue. The courts have set up hoops for Missouri to jump through, so Missouri has jumped through them. Contra captcrisis’ implication there is nothing wrong with Missouri being unenthusiastic about how Biden is pissing away federal monies extracted from, among others, Missouri taxpayers, to subsidize student loans excessively and improvidently and illegally.
The entity that owns MOHELA is. No real difference.
That is very much begging the question.
There is no "question".
Loan forgiveness is not about more kids going to college. It's about taxpayers subsidizing the educational complex, where blacks are taught to hate whites in "African American studies" classes, and where worthless administrators and sexuality deans teach students how to "explore" their sexuality, meaning to explore how to erupt in another man's rear.
1. So what?
2. Why would one-time forgiveness for debt people have already incurred result in fewer people going to college in the future?
Of course, MOEHLA isn't actually suing over this, is alleging no harms, etc. and so-on.
But hey, no one seriously expected this case to be ruled on the basis of law, did they? Whatever way it goes, it's going to be a political calculation.
This is a case where it would be useful if taxpayers were allowed standing due to the loss of public revenue. It is a shame that this case - involving a BLATANT violation of the appropriations clause - might be decided in favor of the administration on the technicality of standing.
Many commentators don’t understand why the United States is raising the fact that MOHELA’s other revenue has increased, calling this argumejt irrelevant and absurd.
It is relevant. Missouri is making two standing arguments. Its main argument is that it IS MOHELA or can simply stand it for it, federal courts should look through the corporate structure, so any loss to MOHELA is automatically a loss it it. But it has a fallback argument: if MOHELA is a separate entity and the corporate structure is binding, then it still has standing because MOHELA’s losses will jeapordize its contributions to Missouri’s treasury.
The fact that MOHELA’s revenue increases more than offset any losses from the amnesty profrsm is highly relevant to this second argument. If MOHELA will be in no financial difficulty, it will be able to continue to make the contributions to Missouri’s treasury that Missouri expects, so Missouri itself, unlike MOHELA, will suffer no losses. And if there will be no effect on Missouri itself, Missouri will have no standing.
I understand Citizens United doesn’t apply, as a public corporation, like public entities generally, has no 14th Amendment rights.
Nonetheless, if’s interesting to watch conservatives, having made such a big case for the sanctity of the corporate form, advocate for treating it as meaningless and being quick to look right through it the minute it becomes con enient to do so. Calling arguments that follow straightforwardly from existence of the corporate form absurd suggests that the corporate form only really exists when its existence is convenient.