The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Separating the Juice From the Pulp At Stanford
How should SLS squeeze out students who violated the code of conduct?
The DEI Dean at Stanford Law did not think Judge Duncan's juice was worth the squeeze. I pose a related question: are all of Stanford's graduates worth the squeeze? Without question, these students have excellent academic credentials, and performed very well on various forms of testing. But at least some of them exercised terrible judgment. They decided that it was appropriate to shout down and heckle a sitting federal judge. They yelled vulgar slurs about parts of the human anatomy. Now, to be fair, these students have been inculcated in DEIdeology. They were taught by Dean Steinbach and others that this sort of behavior is not only appropriate, but is a necessary response to a harmful presence on campus. So perhaps the students should not bear all of the blame here. Stanford is at least responsible in part; plus their undergraduate institutions; and their K-12 teachers (current 1Ls were born circa 2000); don't forget coaches that handed out participation prize trophies; and so on.
Thankfully, Stanford can help fix this mess. To paraphrase Dean Steinbach, Stanford can separate the juice from the pulp. But how? The first step would be to identify the students who violated the code of conduct. The joint statement from the President and the Dean seems to suggest that at least some students crossed the line. The event was recorded from multiple camera angles. It would not require Zapruder-level scrutiny to figure out who was at fault. Now, Stanford may not really want to identify the assailants. We never did find out who placed black tape on the faculty photos at Harvard Law School.
I do find it telling that the protestors stood outside Dean Martinez's class while wearing custom-printed-masks. These non-N-95 masks did not provide much COVID protection, but were very effective at concealing identifies. I heard from a colleague that the masks would allow more students to participate who feared potential repercussions.
After the relevant students are identified, Stanford would have several options. I'll list them in order of increasing severity. First, the college could simply issue a warning to those who violated the code of conduct. There would be a recognition that they transgressed, but no consequences at the moment. However, if they were to violate the code again, there would be some distinct consequences. A one-bite rule, so to speak, would perversely incentivize every student to have one, and only one, moment in the sun. I imagine that students who are unfortunate enough to get a mere warning would let all other students engage in future risky conduct.
Second, Stanford could impose some form of extracurricular punishment. For example, students cannot participate in organizations like moot court or law journals, or serve as research assistants for professors. These consequences would deprive elite students of that which they hold most dear--credentials for their resume and recommenders for clerkships. And, in a way, these sanctions would signal to prospective employers that something was amiss. A student was on law review for 2L, but not 3L? Still, there would be no official imprimatur of misconduct.
Third, Stanford could issue such an imprimatur. The college could convey a message to the character & fitness review board of the relevant state. Now, in California, asking Judge Duncan about the female anatomy may warrant some sort of special commendation from the health law section of the state bar. 51 imperfect solutions, and all. But for other, more sane jurisdictions, this sort of conduct should have repercussions. Still, these communications to the bar are not (as far as I know) publicized.
Fourth, Stanford could make things public. It could issue a press release naming and shaming all of the students who violated the code of conduct. Presumably, any law firm or judge who hired or is planning to hire a SLS grad would check this list, and may proceed accordingly. Judges Ho and Branch offer a similar recommendation in National Review.
And if schools are unwilling to impose consequences themselves, at a minimum they should identify the disrupters so that future employers know who they are hiring.
Schools issue grades and graduation honors to help employers separate wheat from chaff. Likewise, schools should inform employers if they're injecting potentially disruptive forces into their organizations.
This move would send a signal to all of Palo Alto, and indeed, the entire country: there are actual consequences for such behavior. Then again, some firms may want to hire these students. Good for them! Hopefully they do not exercise such behavior in the John Minor Wisdom Courthouse. Some judges may also view such conduct as admirable. Professor Rory Little wrote that heckling is a new form of "principled civil disobedience"! Good for them! If judges accept this worldview, we're in big trouble.
Fifth, there is the option of expulsion. These students can forget about clerkships or summer associate gigs. They will not even be allowed to sit for the bar. Still, I think this option would be draconian, especially for a first-time offense.
Stanford has options. Let's see if it does anything about this situation, or if it will simply issue naked apologies.
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You can't squeeze juice from a judge but you can keep milking this story.
Old news.
Like the "January 6th Insurrection"??
DeSantis tries to force his speech preferences on an entire state, using raw government power and punishing those who refuse to comply. He does this repeatedly in several different forms. But the Conspirators don’t find that one-tenth so newsworthy as flogging this tale of children behaving with rudeness.
On observing this last Stanford post, I was told that’s just not fair: There has been a story (maybe two!) about a few of RD’s authoritarian antics. Well, yeah.
But my over-under bet on VC Stanford posts is six to eight. Can you imagine what we’d see if there were eight posts every time DeSantis trashed free speech? That would crowd out the entire site!
"children behaving with rudeness"
Out of curiousity, what's the average age of these children?
It’s a relative thing, dude. When you’re as old as me, you’ll understand.
There is a more significant difference here. The contributors to the blog (though not necessarily to the comments section) are law professors. The Stanford story is centrally important to their profession, and, I would suggest, to the continuing viability of law schools as serious academic enterprises.
In contrast, whatever the Florida legislature ends up doing about the DIE/CRT garbage (and many of the proposals have nothing to do with the academic freedom of university professors), it is not at this point obvious what effect it will have on Florida law schools (and other institutions of higher learning).
Keith Whittington has contributed several blog entries concerning this issue, but he (like I) is a professor in a liberal arts program and not a professor of law, so that his concerns are not exactly the same ones as most of the contributors.
I’m not buying it. Wouldn’t a law professor be the very one to recognize danger in government controlled speech? It’s seems to me a professor of law would see that as more important than workplace gossip, not less.
That settled, a question for you: Are you really one of those people who believes in the CRT boogeyman? As data for my ongoing poll on right-wing gullibility, do you fear the “CRT” that lurks in the shadows behind every door?
Heavens above! Were you one of Ron’s cute little kiddies holding up signs at the presser ?!?
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/columns/2022/04/27/florida-gov-desantis-uses-black-kids-props-while-signing-stop-woke-law-crt-critical-race-theory/9538474002/
Watching these right-wingers flail as they try to disclaim their cowardice, partisanship, bigotry, and hypocrisy is entertaining, but not as good as mocking them and their stale, ugly, rejected thinking.
This is another weak effort. Put the catamites in their cages and take some time to think before you write.
I don’t need my strongest effort. I just need to be better than the right-wingers at this blog.
Nine out of ten times you are Arthur and I appreciate the hard work you put in here battling the forces of idiocy. Thank you sincerely,
It's good to know that 'nine of ten times you are Arthur'. I assume that the other time, you let the catamites write it for you.
NPC Alert
NPC Alert
Actually, as a professor at an actual university, I deal with proponents of this CRT shit on a regular basis. In fact, I teach a course in which I present it (and, no, I don't present it as the nonsensical shit that it is) along with other contemporary ideologies. There are plenty of idiots on campus these days spouting this nonsense (almost all of them in education departments, of course), but I don't think that CRT is the real danger. The DIE grift is the cancer, which is why I am not completely opposed to the efforts by the Florida and Texas legislatures to apply some chemotherapy to the education system.
Professor. Right.
What you sound like is a stupid teenager trying to sound like some pompous professor who exists in his imagination.
I have obviously failed, since my goal was to sound like an intelligent teenager pretending to be a professor.
Also, you should read your posts before sending them. After all, why would I try to sound like a 'pompous professor who exists in [my] imagination'? Would I want to sound pompous, if I were a stupid teenager? But, more importantly, would I really want to sound like a professor who exists only in my own imagination? Wouldn't I want to convince others that I exist outside of my own imagination? Is Walter Mitty available at this point?
the questing vole : “….The DIE grift is the cancer…..”
A couple of points :
1. The architecture firm where I work was subsumed by a large corporation. As a result, I’ve had a spot of diversity training. It was harmless enough; mostly milquetoast truisms on respecting and understanding other people. I didn’t need any of it explained to me because it was basic human dignity-stuff, but then I’m not a right-winger. (I think I’d find the continual victimhood wearying)
2. Two Rightists have called for “eradicating” trans people in the last couple of weeks. It’s kind of a reverse Goodwin, reaching-out in nostalgia for those heady Nazi days, when the enemy was clear and the solution even clearer. But you only get a real sense of the moral bankruptcy of today’s Right in the hysterical details of their “emergency” (link below).
Because it’s all nonsense. You wouldn’t know from the hyperventilating word-salad that nothing has changed. The same tiny number of people who are trans were there two years ago, five years ago, twenty years ago. And that points to the real rot at the core of today’s Right: Because maybe few of you get your rocks off with this “eradication” talk, but the whole goddamn hive mind bought into the “emergency” garbage. Shamelessly so.
I don’t know any trans folk, but I’d tell’em this if I did: Hang in there. It’s been a rough time for you, with the number of anti-trans bills in state legislatures climbing from 19 to 362 over these four years. But there’s one thing we know about our right-wingers: They demand variety in their fantasy threats. Remember, CRT was the horror du jour for a while, only to be replaced by you. Soon right-wingers will demand a new taste in their viewing entertainment. Already there are signs DIE is the latest bullshit to be spoonfed into hungry eager mouths…..
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/transgenderism-must-be-eradicated/
Point one doesn't address what I said, which is that DIE is a cancer in academia. I'm not an architect, so I don't know whether the DIE garbage is important there or not, but I'll take your word that it isn't.
I don't mention trannies, so I'm not sure what point two has to do with anything. That said, males who believe that they are females (and vice versa) have serious mental problems. I don't know what those who say that trannies or trannie-ism should be eradicated mean, but curing people of mental illness is a good thing.
questing vole, I read through your responses. May I ask a question? When you say 'apply some chemotherapy to the education system' you are speaking of only DIE grift, correct? Or something more.
I understand the thrust of the analogy. The reticence I have with the analogy is that chemotherapy is a blunt instrument, when something more along the lines of non-invasive surgery might be more precise (and targeted).
Do you usually subject obviously rhetorical metaphors to such study? Fascinating.
"Wouldn’t a law professor be the very one to recognize danger in government controlled speech? "
Government shouldn't control government speech? Who should control it?
Congratulations, you have identified an insult: grb was being insulting while dismissing the students.
Maybe so, but these "children" are poised on the brink of careers in or near the halls of power.
If they're children, they're like that child in that Twilight Zone episode who had absolute power over the terrified adults.
Keep it up and I'll send you to the cornfield.
If the idea that hecklers might be "on the brink of careers in or near the halls of power" concerns you, wait till you find out the behavior of sitting congress-critters.
Once again: it's hardly surprising that law professors would be highly interested in the goings on at law schools.
How would you try to explain the fixation on lesbians, transgender beauty queens, Muslims, drag queens, transgender bathrooms, etc.?
"DeSantis tries to force his speech preferences on an entire state,"
Fill me in, do you mean the government is deciding what to do in government schools?
Read it and weep.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mask-clad-stanford-students-protest-dean-for-apologizing-to-trump-appointed-judge/ar-AA18Fdnv
Dean Martin[ez] is confronted by courageous Young Lions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Young_Lions_(film)
A fitting punishment might be that the offending students must clerk for Professor Blackman.
heh
Touche'! (well done, LOL'ed at 0515 reading it)
Judge Blackman, surely?
If you wanted to be educational about disciplining the disruptive students, you could tell them to write out all their arguments in detail, and write out all the other sides' positions in detail. Then submit it to neutral judges (or politically diverse judges) to grade them. And have the disruptive students keep re-writing until the consensus of all the judges is that all sides' arguments are fairly captured and portrayed. Then publish the result.
Once done, get 1-2 credits for the work. Refuse, expelled.
and no use of Internet, enforced by being required to complete during a normal working day, in a monitored lecture hall, with those awful desks (biased against Left Handers BTW)
Heck, in my day, you'd have to find a "Dealer" like with Pot/Drugs to write your Term paper/get you exam questions, and if you got anything on paper you'd have to Schlep to the Library to copy it (did they even have Kenkos in 1981??)
Frank
Josh, I’m pretty disappointed in this menu of possible punishments. Much too soft if you ask me. Long-term imprisonment should be the absolute minimum. Extraordinary rendition should be given serious consideration. The death penalty should certainly not be off the table.
After all, these people were *rude*! They said mean words - to a FEDERAL JUDGE! A federal judge on the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals! This simply cannot stand. Anyone who wouldn’t bow and scrape in the presence of such a mighty intellect must be made an example of! To let them go with the slaps on the wrist you’ve suggested here is unacceptable.
Nah, just have a standard form to send people when they’re invited as campus speakers.
“We look forward to your presence at Stanford! Before you come, though, you’ll have to sign this waiver form, agreeing to have your event disrupted if a claque of students don’t like you. You must also agree to be berated by an administrator for being a horrible, horrible person. If these terms are satisfactory to you, just sign here, here and here, and we’ll see you soon!”
It's the careless omission of that warning which caused the trouble, if you ask me. It can mislead people into thinking they’ll receive cringing deference in the form of people listening to them.
"You must also agree to be berated by an administrator for being a horrible, horrible person."
If someone like Tirien Steinbach (SLS Associate Dean for DEI) thinks ill of you, you are probably a great person. There's no higher compliment.
It’s hard to say he wasn’t forewarned, given the media’s breathless reporting of every instance a right wing activist or politician has suffered the slightest insult on a college campus. A formal waiver would seem redundant.
Regardless, what he faced was maybe 1/50th the invective and sexual insults suffered by any average woman exercising her right to an abortion in this country. He’ll survive.
Lol. 95%+ of women having an abortion in this country go in and quietly have their abortion and hardly anyone even knows they were there. Your hyperbole serves no purpose but to harm your credibility, really. I’ve seen you be better than this.
People standing on a sidewalk screaming invective at abortion patients is appalling behavior.
Young supposedly educated adults screaming invective at an invited speaker and finally shutting him down - on a campus that supposedly supports free speech - is appalling behavior.
Each should be condemned on a stand alone basis. Why can’t you simply do that?
You are correct, madam. The most oppressed people in America are women who want to kill their babies.
He (the judge) told David Lat he was forewarned.
How should an institution such as Stanford treat unreconstructed bigots on campus?
This could become an increasingly interesting point in modern America.
Well, the first step in getting rid of these bigots is to fire every DIE administrator, and to get rid of non-academic grievance studies majors designed for students (and faculty) too stupid to succeed in serious disciplines.
What does Stanford itelf say?
"There is no "ordinary" penalty which attaches to violations of the Policy on Campus Disruptions. In the past, infractions have led to penalties ranging from censure to expulsion. In each case, the gravity of the offense and prior conduct of the student are considered; however, the more serious the offense, the less it matters that a student has otherwise not done wrong."
https://studentservices.stanford.edu/more-resources/student-policies/student-rights-responsibilities/campus-disruptions
Not very rule-of-lawsy, is it?
That explains why the Policy of Campus Disruptions is not enforced, and students believe they can do what they please.
Gee, federalist lawyers are such a delicate bunch. As a group, they wield outsized influence in the judiciary (including the SCOTUS), but go their meetings and it's all "why is everyone so mean to me?!"
Which is to say... grow-up snowflake.
Which would be relevant if it was only federal judges getting disrupted.
Assuming he deserved it, do the people who came to hear him speak deserve it? Does the university iteslf deserve it?
I didn't say a thing about anyone deserving anything, I'm just calling Blackman a whiny snowflake.
But if you want to assume this
activistjudge "deserved it", go for it. But if you do make that assumption, then you should realize that the federalist chapter that invited him did so knowing full well the kind of reaction they would prompt, and as such, they "deserved it" too.The university? They've got an obligation to let the federalist chapter exist, and suffer the consequences of their stunts. So maybe they also "deserved it".
But that's all you and your assumption. Me? I'm just pointing out that Blackman and the Federalist society in general are whiny bitches. They got the power they wanted, and are just so mad that no one respects them for it.
Stanford doesn’t have to have a FedSoc chapter, or invite anyone. If it chooses to recognize the federalists and permit their speakers on campus, it shouldn’t ambush them. Just don’t let them on campus at all.
Or maybe have them sign forms, like I suggested, agreeing to be disrupted and to have an administrator take over the proceedings for the purpose of calling them names. Then they couldn’t complain they were ambushed, they got what they were promised. If they’re sufficiently masochistic, they might even like it.
"One unique feature of the Apollo [Theater] during Amateur Nights was 'the executioner', a man with a broom who would sweep performers off the stage if the highly vocal and opinionated audiences began to call for their removal. Vaudeville tap dancer [Sandman' Sims played the role from the 1950s to 2000; stagehand Norman Miller, known as 'Porto Rico' (later played by Bob Collins) might also chase the unfortunate performer offstage with a cap pistol, accompanied by the sound of a siren."
But since the President of the whole University, as well as heartthrob Dean Martin[ez], signed an apology, apparently it’s not just “federalists” who don’t like what happened.
You seem to be under the misconception that this whole fiasco isn't exactly what the judge wanted.
It's... odd.
Then what would be the harm of having him sign a waiver, like I suggested?
(PS - someone should have warned those students and the administrator that they were doing exactly what the judge wanted and playing into his hands - that would have stopped them!)
I haven't seriously considered it. But I'm gonna give it two seconds thought now, which honestly is more then it deserves.
Wouldn't matter. Promulgate the idea if you like, but I have no reason to believe that such a waiver would have changed anything.
Also? I'm going offline now, so no more quickfire responses. Tah.
No kidding. Anyone who would walk through a dark alley at 2AM dressed like that CLEARLY wanted what they got, right?
No dude, that's a whole new sentence.
It's rather humorous that lefists in the US complain about people being 'whiny bitches' when that is one the primary characteristics of the coalition of deadbeats, criminals, perverts, and baby-killers that make up what counts as progressivism these days.
Had the members of the Federalist Society just beat the living shit out of those mindless scum who disrupted the judge's speech, would you have complimented them for not being 'whiny bitches'?
Take one look at the people in a FedSoc chapter, and you’ll instantly see why this is not a viable option. They’re beating nothing, except their meat. Just like you.
That's very clever for a crack whore. I agree that the FedSoc types aren't very intimidating, but the lefties are silly little pussies who would piss themselves if anyone brought out a baseball bat, much less a nice little S&W 686.
So let me get this straight: you’re pretending to be a university professor AND a fascist gun thug in the same comment thread? You’re gonna have to pick a lane, man. Or better yet, get out of your parent’s basement and touch some grass.
So you don't think that you can be a university professor and a 'fascist gun thug' at the same time? Well, to steal a line from old Bill, 'there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy’ (see Martin Heidegger).
Regarding your ad hominum remarks, my parents' basement is a perfectly nice place to live, and the only grass I need to touch comes in the gummy form.
You, on the other hand, definitely need to give up the meth and the whoring. I know that you have no teeth anymore and that that makes you attractive to those seeking the other sort of gummy (i.e. the gummy blow job). But, please, get help for the monkey pox.
Stanford should start by declaring without qualification that Judge Duncan's stale, reason-deprived bigotry is an affront to Stanford's institutional values; that enabling the judge to speak on campus should not be confused with endorsement or any desire to associate with that stale, ugly thinking; and that it hopes the judge's interactions at Stanford might incline him to improve his thinking.
Bigots have rights, too, but not the right to avoid being described an objected to as bigots.
I have no problem with faculty members, but not administrators, saying this sort of thing. However, of course, when leftist race grifters, pedophiles, and other assorted perverts come to campus, faculty members should be able to issue the same sort of warnings against their peculiar form of idiocy.
When I read Kirkland's pompous pontifications, I always hear Foghorn Leghorn. Was he a pedophile, too (he did have the chicken hawk around)?
The university already apologized for taking your advice.
One of the most striking things about how removed from reality the Volokh Conspiracy is is that these disaffected losers actually believe there might be a world in which Stanford, and the liberal-libertarian mainstream in general, might be in the market for tips from a Federalist Society hayseed working at one of the worst law schools in America.
Carry on, clingers. So far as better Americans permit, though, and not a step beyond.
One of the most striking things about Ms. Kirkland (aka, Foghorn Leghorn) is that he is obsessed, not only with diddling young children, but with a relatively insignificant website where some intellectual misfits toss out their hot sports opinions. Methinks he's like a homo who, deep down, still feels guilty and likes to hang around the local Baptist church.
Next installment: Separating The Shit From The Diarrhea And Vomit At South Texas College Of Law Houston
I've represented students accused of violating the Stanford Student Conduct Code. At hearing, the burden of proof is on the University to prove the student violated the Code beyond a reasonable doubt. [At the UC, CSU, and most other private colleges in California, the burden of proof is on the University to prove the student violated the Code by a preponderance of the evidence.] If those masks did their jobs, the Stanford law students will walk at the hearing and walk at graduation. and will be admitted to Bars across the nation with no blemishes for violating the Stanford Student Conduct Code when their moral character to be lawyers is measured.
So, not only is the Stanford Student Conduct Code (assuming the Policy on Campus Disruptions is part of the Code) vague about sanctions, it is subject to an unusually high standard of proof.
In that case, I agree, those students have nothing to worry about.
I'm surer Stanford is hugely grateful for the advice from Blackman, just as CJ Roberts was when he faced the problem of allocating seats at SCOTUS hearings.
JFC, Josh. Get over yourself.
He is just giving this blog’s fans, and it’s proprietor, what they want.
Well, this certainly would be the fascist response to a raucous but ultimately harmless reception of a fascist judge coming to speak to a fascist student group.
So, points for consistency?
It is honestly a bit bizarre to see law professors use the VC to enthuse over destroying the careers of law students. I had not expected the quality to drop to this level; I figured David was a one-off.
SimonP: 'I like to use the word fascist, even though I obviously don't know what it means. If I use it enough, then everyone will be convinced to agree with me.'
I'm sorry, you're right. A better label would have been "authoritarian Christo-nationalist."
https://abovethelaw.com/2023/03/how-to-get-canceled-at-a-law-school-for-fun-and-profit/
“So disruptors are rightly angry, because the inviters, a student organization, chose to invite someone who denies perhaps the very existence of the disruptor.”
The word “perhaps” is, as commenters like to phrase it, doing a lot of work here.
But in any case the article also says the speakers might *want* to be disrupted, so presumably they’re aware of the existence of the disruptors.
One of the disruption incidents involved Christina Hoff Sommers, who is not a federal judge, so all the arguments about how a federal judge got what was coming to him don't apply.
The tiny number of disruptions in a large number of such talks is significant. The point of the invites is not to inform anyone but to generate publicity; even Lat's report shows that in the Duncan case.
Just identify the transgressors and let the market sort it out. I had a particularly abysmal performance on my Property final, and my transcript reflected that. The IP firm that made me an offer said they don't look at overall GPA, they only looked at certain classes and asked about outlier grades if they had a question. The big firm that made me an offer only cared about my overall GPA meeting their minimum and my writing sample. I wound up a government lawyer and to this day have no idea what the real hiring criteria were. There's a market that wants to hire law school grads who behave like this, and probably more than a few employers who would be willing to look past it if other criteria were met and the applicant had a decent explanation for the conduct or sufficient regret, atonement, or growth.
So perhaps the students should not bear all of the blame here. Stanford is at least responsible in part; plus their undergraduate institutions; and their K-12 teachers (current 1Ls were born circa 2000); don't forget coaches that handed out participation prize trophies
The notion that coaches handing out "participation prize trophies" somehow damages character development or whatever it is supposed to harm is so much culture warrior bull-sh*t. (George Will just threw out the same bull-sh*t in a column of his about the Stanford shamefest.
Anyone wish to contradict me and make the case that "participation prize trophies" do observable, lasting harm (evident in law school? Can you do it without sounding like a fool?
Ambitious law students will presumably reject the idea of participation trophies because they know they don’t reflect the real world. It’s root, hog or die in their environment.
Doesn’t mean participation trophies should be handed out, however.
I don't think that was a huge part of his argument, but thanks for flipping out about it. I sense some underlying, unresolved trauma...
I mean, I don't think "participation trophies" is intended to be literal. It's a metonym.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/03/full-audio-confirms-stanford-law-school-students-shouted-down-conservative-judge-in-violation-of-policy/
Full Audio Confirms Stanford Law School Students Shouted Down Conservative Judge In Violation Of Policy
The students had no intention of letting the judge speak and the DIE dean encouraged and facilitated such behavior. Every Federal Judge should file any clerkship application from a Stanford Law student in the circular file bin.
Why do you want to punish every Stanford Law student--including the FedSoc members?
1. The offending students should be sanctioned to the step right before expulsion.
2. Professor Blackman should be mocked for throwing in the ridiculous "participation award" canard in his polemic.
I suspect they'll go with "do nothing to these students, but make it clear that conservative students better not do anything similar."
There is only one solution to this situation and it only needs to take place once. Expel the students acting in this way. Thereafter, students will comply with the Student Code of Conduct. If that seems draconian, then I suggest you really don't care about the true students at the university who are there to learn and not simply posture in front of cameras.
Mr. Manager with his standard horse shit.
Duncan deserves the same respect you'd afford to any other political douchebag using other people as props. I'll qualify that by saying his courtroom deserves to be respected; the office deserves substantially more than the shitheel occupying it.
That Mr. Manager seems to believe Stanford students have some obligation to be politely used for Duncan's political ambitions is unsurprising. Fortunately for humanity, if not for either of them, most people who don't belong to their little club aren't the servile little chumps they expect them to be.
You seem to have forgotten the possibility that someone with the FedSoc could publicize the names of the students as well. It's something I'd like to see as a potential future employer. I'd be willing to listen to how these kids have changed over time (we all make stupid mistakes in our early 20s), but shouting down a federal judge shows poor judgment and reasoning skills. Private employers have a vested interest in learning who these people are.
The "Reverend's" Mouth is "In Disposed"
You may respond to this blog’s content as you wish.
Me? I don’t like bigots, or downscale academics who cuddle with bigots and discuss expulsions of students who dislike bigots.
One college kid shut this whole thing down? Wow. He/she is very impressive. A fucking Svengali.
Great substantive response. I’m sure the hypothetical GBU has a very robust DEI department.
Citation off. Most abortion facilities are not pestered by protesters at all. All of the ones you see in tv are, which leads to an over belief in the number of places bothered by protesters.
It’s the same syndrome that leads progressives to believe that over 1000 unarmed blacks are killed every year by police when the actual number is less than 20 and to believe that it only happens to black guys when reality is that more whites are shot than blacks, by absolute number.
I haven’t said the word rape at all, so it’s stupid to assert that I’m arguing about rape at all.
I’m arguing that your “a college kid” statement was either stupid or intentionally minimizing the effect of the mob because you believe a totally misleading argument will somehow persuade anyone of anything.
Well then yell at him about rape and leave me out of it. I didn’t respond to his comment at all.
You trying to attribute the actions of a mob of dozens of students to “a kid” in order to assert that the speaker overreacted is a pointless argument because it’s not close to what happened. Just a fucking waste of time to talk to you because you’re not even talking about the same event.
Why can’t you just condemn bad behavior on a stand alone basis as it occurs.
Without commenting on the rape comment. “Jerking that knee” is more stupidity in light of the fact that you’re the one grousing at me about a comment made by someone else.
Did I say that anything here related to rape in any way? You have no reason to think that I believe that anything here “rises to the level of rape” except for your own fucking imagination.
Talking to you is pointless. I just wasted 30 minutes responding to you about something I never said or even thought. I’m not going to respond to any more of this rape nonsense.
Every time I take you off mute I end up regretting it.
“Citation” has always been your crutch to avoid having to actually argue a point.
Nighty night.
Well, since not being able to follow an argument seems to be your modus operandi, I will give you some elementary remediation. I used the metaphor that DIE is a cancer, and then suggested that getting rid of it might be like chemotherapy (you know, cancer is treated by chemotherapy). I'm going to have to start charging you, QA, for these short bus lessons sooner rather than later.
So, from your reply, it seems that you would prefer that the patient dies. If the cancer is killing the one you love and chemotherapy can (perhaps) save the one that you love, then you are in favor of chemotherapy.
You are not an intelligent person, are you?
And, I'll give your best to President Beck the next time I see him.
" It’s a terrible metaphor to apply to an institution you care about."
You know what? I've been through chemotherapy. I'd walk in, in the morning, hale and hearty, and totter out that afternoon with my wife holding my arm to steady me. For three months I went through that, and when my oncologist near the end said, "You're handling this really well, let's schedule one last treatment to make sure." I literally wept.
The people poisoning me deeply cared about me and my survival. They poisoned me with the utmost delicacy and care, because they really wanted me to survive.
So, it's a great analogy; Somebody who didn't care about Stanford would propose shutting the doors and warning people not to hire any of the folks who'd lost their jobs.
What I like to do when I exercise my autonomy is to go out and kill anyone who inconviences me.
You are not completely wrong, but you are ultimately wrong. There are, of course, quite a few faculty in these programs who have their graduate degrees from actual academic programs (primarily sociology and history), but the programs were created to hire otherwise unhireable minorities (that is, these people wouldn't have jobs without these garbage programs) and to create soft majors for affirmative action admits (who get in to schools and then find that they can't do the work in real academic disciplines). I know that it's an uncomfortable truth, but you might want to weep on your pillow tonight.
Once again, you have completely misunderstood the line of my comments. What I have said is that: 1. leftists whine and bitch all of the time about how horrible they have been treated (so complaining about this sort of thing is not, in itself, a bad thing, according to leftists); 2. leftists criticizing the FedSoc for whining and bitching about how they have been (or are being) treated are silly, stupid, worthless pieces of garbage because complaining about mistreatment is central to their whole approach to policy questions; 3. one alternative would have been for the FedSoc to beat the shit out of the worthless scum who were preventing the judge from presenting his paper; 4. an answer was given that the FedSoc were too cowardly and I responded that the leftist shitheads were almost certainly just as cowardly, again by proposing a hypothetical situation (by the way, there is a group in the US that likes to not only brandish guns but to use them, and they are imprisoned for such actions at a higher rate than any other group in the US for their actions; I'm sure that you know who this group is).
None of this suggests that I have any revenge fantasy at all. I have not been injured by the moronic actions of the Stanford law students or their worthless token DIE Dean. So, I wish them harm, not because of revenge, but out of purely Darwinian inclinations.
You aren't aware of Kirkland's reputation? I believe that he regularly advertises his affiliation with NAMBLA on the comments section. You need to keep up.
How are those civility standards coming along, Volokh Conspiracy? You guys should probably end your silence on this, lest people get the idea you are lying hypocrites.
Not currently, but, if I did, I would certainly kill those people if they cramped my style in any way.
Nope, they're all shitheads (I also know when someone is full of shit).
Are you a complete illiterate? I have made no complaint at all during this whole conversation.
Goof, that's almost a term of endearment. Thank you so much.
The remarks about perverts and pedophiles are accurate descriptions of one of the major constituencies of the Democratic Party and the progressive movement in America. Once again, these are descriptive, not normative, statements.
It's such an odd thing for a person to say continually that he doesn't like the company that he keeps, but insists upon keeping the same company.
Once again, thank you for the compliment.
Exactement, Mlle. Poirot.
Well, like most of the commenters, my font of cleverness is not that deep.