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Colloquy on the Arbitrariness of Racial Classification in Monday's Oral Argument
In the oral argument from SFFS v. UNC, Justice Alito raised the question, highlighted in my amicus brief and book, of whether the racial and ethnic classifications used by UNC and other universities are so arbitrary as to be unconstitutional. I have posted the colloquy below.
Two comments:
(1) Justice Alito asks why a student of Afghani heritage should be put in the same classification as a Chinese American. In fact, while this is far from clear from the Common Application itself, officially the Asian American classification ends at the Western border of Pakistan, and Afghan-Americans are white. This just goes to show how arbitrary and confusing the classifications are.
(2) Mr. Park for UNC struggles to explain that UNC both considers each student's ethnicity on an individualized basis, but also relies on box-checking because racial heritage is relevant to one's life experiences: "[Plaintiffs' argue] that race says nothing about who you are. And we just don't think that is true when you look at American society as it exists." But that just gets us back to Justice Alito's question: what common "racial" experiences do, say a Filipino, a Vietnamese, and Bangladeshi American have in common, such that they should be considered members of the same classification? "Asian" seems like a rather arbitrary dividing line, especially given that "racially" Asians may be Caucasian, East Asian, Austronesian, or "other" (like indigenous Malaysians.)
JUSTICE ALITO: I'd like your response to the argument that these racial categories are so broad that any use of them is arbitrary and, therefore, unconstitutional. So what would you say to, for example, a student whose family came from Afghanistan and doesn't get in because the student doesn't get the plus factor that the student would get if the student's family had come from someplace else? So you would say to the student: Well, we don't -- we don't need you to contribute to a diversity of views at our school because we already have enough Asians. We have a lot of students whose families came from China or other Asian countries. And the student says: Well, you don't have anybody like me, I'm from Afghanistan. What -- what similarity does a family background to the person from Afghanistan have with somebody whose family's background is in, let's say, Japan?
MR. PARK: So, respectfully, what you're describing is the exact opposite of how our process actually works on -- on an individualized basis. This is -- we discuss this on page 11 of our brief. There was a Vietnamese student. The admissions office –the admissions officer testified about a Vietnamese student who immigrated to a remote part of North Carolina and thrived in that setting, and she testified, undisputed, that that was a favorable aspect of her application.
JUSTICE ALITO: Well, that's -- that's-- that's an individual aspect of the application and something that has to do with her experience. But what is the justification for lumping together students whose families came from China with someone -- with students whose families came from Afghanistan? What do they have in common?
MR. PARK: So I agree that that would be a strange rule. And that is not the rule that this Court has established. It would require --
JUSTICE ALITO: Well, then why do you have them check a box that I'm Asian? What do you learn from the mere checking of the box?
MR. PARK: So we think that it depends on the individual circumstances of that person, but I am telling --
JUSTICE ALITO: So you don't need the -- you don't need the boxes at all?
MR. PARK: So I think that that is not necessarily true on an individualized basis. So another example, so we -- again, as I discussed, we attempt very vigorously to recruit and enroll rural students, and we don't ask them to write an essay about how being from a rural background affects their, you know, sense of self and their experiences, but what we say is that person comes with something that we value, and –
JUSTICE ALITO: Well, they may choose to write about it, but what's the answer to my question? Why do you have these boxes? Why – why do you give a student the opportunity to say this one thing about me, I'm Hispanic, I'm African American, I'm Asian? What does that in itself tell you?
MR. PARK: We think that it can in context, on a individualized basis, perhaps not in every case but in some cases, give important information about where that person is coming from and what their experiences have been. And, really, this goes to the heart of the dispute that we have between the parties. So they say on page 53 of their brief that race says nothing about who you are. And we just don't think that is true when you look at American society as it exists.
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The lawyers for the schools don't have an enviable job--they have to justify screwing over hard-working 17 year olds. Why should a kid's "holistic" achievement get a discount or a premium based on what skin color he or she is?
That's really the fundamental question.
Sonia Sotomayor says: “Because fuck you, that’s why!”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricci_v._DeStefano#Second_Circuit
America's vestigial conservative bigots -- white nationalists, racists, immigrant-haters in particular -- are perhaps my favorite culture war casualties.
Small clarification: it should be "Afghan heritage," not "Afghani" -- Afghani is the currency of Afghanistan.
"Afghani" used to be the "correct" term for someone from Afghanistan, while "Afghan" referred to a type of blanket.
Still don't get why Elon Musk, born in Africa and now a US citizen isn't considered an "African Amurican" while Barry Hussein America is. The "One Drop" rule lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why, yes, we provide a box so you can identify yourself as being part of a entire category of people so we can assess you better as an individual though of course we would never ask you to describe in words what your individual experience has been that relates to the category whose box you checked, because we don’t really need that information as we are assessing you as an individual.
Did I do that right?
It seems pretty obvious to me. Mr. Park is saying, the more information the better. What's to be gained by taking away the checkboxes, assuming that racial diversity is a compelling interest?
Because it's not information at all.
"Asian" includes: Tamils, Punjabi, Bengals, Mongols, Filipinos, Japanese, Hmong, Uyghurs, Tibetans, Han, Ryukyuans, Aino, Yakuts, Ewenki, Nivkh, Bamar, Tho, Mon, Khmer. (And that's not even close to exhaustive).
Those groups have little to do with each other. Grouping them as 'Asian' doesn't provide more information, it provides anti-information.
Anti-information! Is that like antimatter? Maybe we could use the Common Application's race/ethnicity questions to replace fossil fuels and save the planet.
You can make fun, but that supposed ‘information’ misleads far more than it informs.
Edit: Imagine classifying species like this, where one of the boxes is 'has wings'. No further elucidation of what actual taxonomic position it holds, just 'has wings'. Is classifying bats, birds, and flies together 'information'? Or by implying these things are related to each other (when they very much aren't), is it more like disinformation.
(Consider this specifically in a context like the application check boxes. It's not part of a scientific key that will distinguish the groups later).
Yes, it seems to me like "has wings" is information.
If the question is, "is it an insect," then you obviously have to be careful. You might think something with wings is more likely to be an insect than something without wings, but as David is so fond of saying, "has wings" is both under- and over-inclusive for insects. You have to look to the other information you have for corroboration.
It's exactly this sort of "taking care" and looking to the "holistic" picture that Mr. Park is describing, and which David is inexplicably deriding.
Except 'has wings' isn't biologically meaningful at a top level of generality. You're going about this the wrong way - the top level classification is going to color how you look at things after that. If it's classed as 'has wings' first, you're going to operate from a mode of thinking that all those things are meaningfully connected to each other, even when they aren't. (And in fact a lot of medieval thought made exactly this error with categories like 'has wings' or 'lives in the sea'.)
If you were actually classifying species, you'd start by figuring out meaningful taxonomic group first. (In this case, has wings might be meaningful later, but it makes no sense as a top level question.
As a lower level question, it's no longer a general statement about 'has wings', it's 'an insect that has wings' or 'a mammal which has wings', with no implication that 'insect that has wings' has any relationship to 'mammal which has wings'. In this latter sense, and only in this latter sense, 'has wings' is information, but it's never a *classification*.)
The standard race classification is even worse, because unlike 'has wings', being 'asian' communicates no useful information ever. Quite seriously, what useful information do you think is being communicated? (And how is that information useful?)
Meanwhile, unlike a species, you can literally just ask students to write their ethnic background, and go straight to the relevant specific information that actually corresponds to diversity. No need to make broad classification schemes, meaningless or otherwise.
And the evidentiary record is pretty clear that asians are disfavored *regardless* of which asian ethnic group they come from. Which means that supposed 'holistic analysis' mostly goes by what box they checked.
I don't think anyone is defending the Common Application checkboxes as being ideal for driving diversity. They come from Congress in the 70s and were intended for a different purpose.
Then why are they using the check boxes for a purpose that they are particularly unsuited for?
Because they're there and they're better than nothing. It's not the only thing they use. That was Mr. Park's point.
That's my point: they're not better than nothing.
Do you have any evidence that any asian ethnicity gets a leg up? Because the record is pretty clear that asians are getting discriminated against as asians. ie, where's the evidence that holistic assessment has any depth to it?
So it isn't a perfect system. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the shitty.
To conservatives, the shitty part is the best feature.
Do any of these briefs account for the fact that Harvard receives about SIXTY THOUSAND applications per year? And there's no possible way that they aren't heavily relying on the checkbox to sort through them all. Any argument that relies on "we carefully assess the backgrounds of each individual applicant" is transparent bullshit.
https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics