The Volokh Conspiracy
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Forget "Your Honor," Just Call Him "Judge"
The Honorable Ben Beaton would prefer not to be called "Your Honor."
Judge Benjamin J. Beaton of the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Kentucky would prefer not to be known as "Your Honor." In a recent speech, Judge Beaton detailed his "guerilla campaign" to end the practice of referring to judges as "Your Honor." As he apparently remarks to lawyers in his courtroom "Counsel, enough with this 'Your Honor' stuff. Please just call me Judge."
From the speech:
As a descriptive matter, of course, "Your Honor" is aspirational at best. As a matter of basic English usage, we'll generously say it's non-standard, if not ungrammatical. Why are you addressing only my honor (whatever abstract portion that might represent) and not the man in full?
For goodness sakes, this country fought a war and wrote a Constitution to blot out titles of nobility. It's right there in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8: "No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States."
Titles, Ben Franklin warned, posed a risk to our new republic. They could render their holders "proud, disdaining to be employed in useful arts, and thence falling into . . . servility and wretchedness." That may go a bit too far: I don't see any judge here who disdains the useful arts.
But I do think many of you would agree that a daily dose of honorifics can't help but affect any judge, and not necessarily in a good way. . . .
And so, he would prefer to just be called "judge":
[I]f we're going to use titles and names to carry out these official duties, then "Judge" seems like the least risky option. It has historical pedigree and linguistic precision on its side: While Your Honor is a term of nobility that English judges apparently borrowed from French hereditary aristocrats, "judge" is a title that we find in the Old Testament, which used the term to describe the leaders who were not kings. The role rotated and was not inheritable. And although I'm no Hebraic scholar, my understanding is that the ancient writings used the term judge more as a verb rather than a noun, much less a title or honorific. As in: "Tola the son of Puah, the son of Dodo, a man of Issachar . . . judged Israel twenty-three years."
And that distinction—between a professional duty and a personal rank—is the one I'm trying to highlight. Judges aren't the law, despite whatever Yale might be teaching these days. And what judges say and write doesn't supplant the actual law as written down in the Constitution and code books. What judges say only really matters if it's necessary to resolve an ongoing dispute. So maybe the country would be better off if the legal profession devoted less attention to the status of judges and more attention to the act of judging.
The speech was published in the online supplement to the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy and reported by Reuters.
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How about “Sandy baby"?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2012/10/29/john-riggins-and-loosen-up-sandy/
Why the snipe at Yale? This guy is a yokel from Paducah and a clinger who voluntarily lives in Kentucky but he attended Columbia Law School.
Did you miss the part in the linked biography where he clerked for RBG?
He was one of Trump's young Federalist Society ideologues, snuck in with 52 votes. He was raised in Paducah and has chosen to live in Kentucky despite having resources. That's a clinger and a yokel.
You left out facts which were inconvenient to your nasty, bigoted narrative, possibly because such facts cannot penetrate what you are pleased to call your brain.
I'm wondering why this clinger is sniping at Yale. He attended a fancy law school -- not as good as Yale, but a substantial step above Paducah-level anything -- despite being a stale-thinking hayseed.
When you got published in a Harvard Law periodical, did they let you snipe at Yale?
He got published in a wingnut separatist publication associated with Harvard, not the Harvard Law Review. That 'law and public policy' rag might as well be the Somerville Bar Review.
Aaaand…you’ve made a breakthrough.
You’ve achieved the insight that a prestigious institution can be associated with something mediocre.
In this case a legal journal associated with Harvard.
Next you’ll say that diversity bureaucrats at Yale may not be the best people the institution has to offer.
Does this mean it’s an acceptable methodology going forward to dismiss the credentials of every Biden appointed judge who only received 50 votes? Sounds even less qualified and more sneaky. Very yokely.
Still working on your inferiority complex, I see.
It’s in the book of Judges that we find this description of the legal process:
“And he found a new jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand, and took it, and slew a thousand men therewith.”-Judges 15:15 (KJV)
Not appealable, I imagine...
As a matter of basic English usage, we'll generously say it's non-standard
Well no, because in proper English it's "Your Honour". And it's a style used only for Circuit Judges (who preside over criminal trials with a jury): https://www.judiciary.uk/guidance-and-resources/what-do-i-call-a-judge/
The position of Circuit Judge is pretty new, having been established in 1971 along with broad reforms. I wouldn't take specifically English and Welsh usage to be the standard, considering the style has a much longer history.
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to make some kind of historical argument. The premise of my observation is simply that standard English is, by definition, the English spoken in England, and that the English spoken elsewhere is, by definition, non-standard to the extent that it deviates from English English.
It's a stupid point, not least of all because that isn't the definition of English. If you're going to argue by definition, you have to use the standard definition rather than one made up in your head.
Swoosh...
We may be two peoples separated by a common language, but it's time to admit that we ARE so separated. Or, more pithy: "Did you learn to talk like that in "shull"?"
I'm not Jewish, for the record.
“Call you Judge? Yes, My Lord.”
An admirable attempt at humility delivered in a profoundly non-humble way.
This guy is going against type to some degree, in my experience. Rural lawyers are far more likely to have someone answer a direct line 'attorney so-and-so' or use 'please hold for attorney-so-and-so' or 'attorney so-and-so can speak with you now.' Some of them even refer to themselves as 'attorney so-and-so.' They also tend to be the ones who use the honorific 'esquire' to refer to themselves.
Also Bill S. Preston, Esq.
I am slightly reminded of a substitute teacher at my middle school. He insisted that students call him by his first name, rather than Mr. So-and-so. When he was substituting for my class one day, we asked him why -- and he pulled out a dictionary that said it was a title of great respect for someone in a high office (the example was "Mister President"), and he did not partake in such power trips. Having such a foolish adult in a position of quasi-authority was almost a shock to 12-year-old me.
(Not that the judge in this case is obviously foolish, but the mindset is similar.)
The judge insists on his proper title, but he eschews the tinsel trappings which go with the title.
He didn’t say “call me Ben.”
Meanwhile, I recently attended parent-teacher conferences for my daughter and felt compelled to still call teachers by "Mr." or "Ms." In fact, when my wife referred on one teacher (a woman she knew outside of the school setting) by her first name, I thought we were going to be in trouble.
Sounds like my sort of person. I'm very off put by titles. My doctor is Jeff, my lawyer is Ed. I avoid people who won't deal with me on an even footing.
Both your doctor and your lawyer have no authority over you, so they certainly are at least on even footing with you, if not subordinate, as you are paying them for a service. Even though a judge is employed by the whole of the people to perform his role, he or she is still in a position of authority over people in the courtroom. While I can see the point of dropping, "your honor," as it does seem like the honorifics given to aristocrats and religious leaders (think, "your grace" or "your highness"), "judge" is perfectly reasonable as a title.
Presumably between the various lawyers, clerks, bailiffs, etc (not those appearing) the atmosphere behind the scenes is usually a bit more collegial since they're all essentially members of the same professional peer group.
Can confirm - when I clerked, the in-chambers way to address the judge was "Judge". As in "Hey Judge, I finished the opinion draft per your instructions, here's a printout."
Old English joke (noting that High Court judges are addressed as "my Lord" (often pronounced "m'Lud")
Witness: "He was as drunk as a judge"
Judge: "Don't you mean, 'as drunk as a lord?"
Witness: "Yes my lord".
If he wants his job title to be what he wants and not what the public wants, he’s welcome to work for himself and pay himself, and not work for and be paid by the public. If he wants to work for and be paid by the public, he has to pay attention to his boss’ view of his job and not solely his own.
A little more humility on his part might be in order.
How has the public manifested this putative desire to have judges called “your honor”?
Do you really think they are calling him “Your Honor” involuntarily?
TV.
Meh. I don't really care. "Judge" is fine.
"Judge"? That's a little formal. How about "Judgey-wudgey"?
"Yo, Big Guy!"
There is also the use of self-referential “Honorable” by judges in the signature block for opinions and orders (as well as in all sorts of publications referring to judges). Honorable also appears in other opinions, such as appellate opinions for judges sitting by designation. But it is not just a judge conceit; honorable is used for Congressmen and other officials (many of whom would not qualify in any meaningful sense as honorable in the ordinary meaning of the term).
In a similar vein, I am reminded of a Houston state judge who insisted that lawyers in his courtroom refer to other lawyers as “Doctor” (or, I suppose, “Dr.”). He was laughed out and discontinued the practice. (BTW, I received an LLB and declined the opportunity to change the degree to JD; so when people sometimes introduce me at a speaking event as have my JD from my law school, I correct them to state that I have an LLB rather than a JD.)
I don't think lawyers today are even *allowed* to call themselves
"doctor" unless they're multiclass lawyer/physicians.
This guy is a federal judge? People call judges "Your Honor"--deal.
If the meaning of marriage can grow, change and evolve to become more egalitarian, so can terms of address for judges.
Or do judges only impose growth, change and egalitarianism on the proles, refusing to adapt and change their own practices?
If "Your Honor" was good enough for Judge Hank "The Hangman" BMW, it is good enough for me.
What are the two least sincere words uttered in court?
I sat in on a couple of trials in Canada. A male judge is referred to as “your worship” and a female judge is referred to as “your ladyship”. That seems much more pretentious that “your honor”. Some judges will leap out of their robe if you dare call them judge. Local rules LA county require the judge to be referred to as your honor.