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Did Nina Totenberg Have a Conflict of Interest in Covering Justice Ginsburg?
Based upon Totenberg's new book, a prominent legal ethicist thinks the conflict was a real one.
NPR Supreme Court reporter Nina Totenberg has a new book on her relationship with the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Dinners with Ruth: A Memoir on the Power of Friendships. I have heard nothing but positive reactions to the book, which chronicles Totenberg and Ginsburg's relationship, which long predated RBG's elevation to the Supreme Court.
The book is a "beautifully touching story of an enduring friendship between two exceptional women," writes Northwestern law professor emeritus Steven Lubet in The Hill. But that's not all. According to Lubet the "barely acknowledged subtext in the book is a conflict of interest between Totenberg's obligations as a reporter and devotion to her friend." In his article, Lubet (who is a noted expert on legal ethics), raises questions about how their relationship may have influenced Totenberg's reporting.
Writes Lubet:
To protect Ginsburg from surprises, Totenberg routinely alerted her in advance to the topics she intended to cover, which is generally prohibited by NPR's Ethics Handbook. The rule against "previewing" questions does not apply to side jobs, but even then the handbook cautions against "entanglements that conflict with our journalistic independence."
In raising questions about whether Totenberg's coverage was influenced by her relationship, Lubet focuses on the controversy surrounding Justice RBG's comments about then-candidate Donald Trump (which I covered extensively on this blog).
Following an uproar about her flagrant breach of judicial ethics, Ginsburg issued a tepid statement of regret, calling her remarks "ill-advised" and promising to "be more circumspect" in the future.
Totenberg was scheduled to interview Ginsburg a few days later. Following her "usual practice," she told the justice that "I was going to ask her about what she had said." "That's my job," she explained, "I'm going to ask you about it as I would anybody else," telling Ginsburg, "she could get mad at me" if she wanted to.
The interview was not much to get mad at. Totenberg asked Ginsburg why she decided to "say you were sorry," rather than why she'd made the remarks in the first place. Ginsberg gave her prepared answer: "Because it was incautious." Totenberg did not raise the ethics issue, suggesting instead that the justice had merely "goofed." Even that was too much for Ginsburg. "It's over and done with, and I don't want to discuss it anymore."
Totenberg accepted the stonewalling. The obvious next question – to anyone not tiptoeing around a friend's embarrassment – was whether Ginsburg would recuse herself from cases challenging the election. That would have put Ginsburg on the spot – and any answer would have been extremely meaningful in light of later events – but Totenberg let it drop.
As it happened, Justice Ginsburg did not recuse when a case involving the Trump campaign reached the Court.
Lubet concludes:
Conflicts of interest are insidious because those who are most affected are least likely to recognize the problem. NPR's management evidently decided that Totenberg's star quality justified the risk.
UPDATE: Lubet is not the only one to offer this criticism of Totenberg. The progressive blog, Balls & Strikes, has published a review by Cornell Law School clinical professor G.S. Hans with the title: "'Dinners With Ruth' and Without Any Semblance of Journalistic Standards, By Nina Totenberg." And, to get a flavor of the review, the subtitle reads: "The veteran Supreme Court journalist has long faced criticism related to her close friendship with Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Now, she's written a whole book celebrating it."
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I disagreed about a lot of ginsburgs opinions, many of which were based on what she thought the law should be and not what the was
(encinio motors, ledbetter goodyear, ACA opinion, etc)
That being said, conflict of interest that Tottenberg had or may have had is trivial.
It's a conflict of interest to the extent that Tottenberg did not disclose the conflict to her employer(s) and therefore a more rigorous interviewer was not assigned to the story.
Similar to the collusion between the Cuomo brothers.
You must be about the only person in the world who didn't know about the relationship between Ginsburg and Totenberg. Certainly her employer, NPR, knew.
Blaming NPR for what they knew or should have known doesn’t change the dynamics.
It doesn't? You commented that the conflict existed because she did not disclose the relationship to her employers. But her employers were already well aware of it. And anyway, how do you know what she did or didn't disclose to NPR?
But her employers were already well aware of it. And anyway, how do you know what she did or didn’t disclose to NPR?
Exactly. NPR's failure to hold a an employee of "star quality" stature to the rules set out in their Ethics Handbook, though mathematically impossible, makes NPR look more morally corrupt. Probably a good time to make sure they are not in any way sucking at the public teat.
You fellows do realize the you are dialoguing with a mendacious troll, right?
I agree, but only because any personal conflict of interest she had would have been subsumed in the overwhelming ideological sympathy. They were friends, but that they were allies was more than enough to drown that conflict anyway.
Sharing ideology doesn't mean you are a slave to it.
Yet again, professionalism exists, even among liberals.
Can you point to a single Totenberg piece where she did not toe the democrat/progressive party line, especially on topics like abortion? Or maybe more meaningfully, has she ever surprised you with the content of a piece?
I cannot say I have read everything she ever wrote, but I have never been surprised by one of her pieces.
Congrats - you have discovered she has an ideology. So do you. Does that mean she cannot have integrity?
If you never deviate from an ideology, how can you demonstrate you are not a "slave" to it?
I'm confused. Prof. Lubet may be an expert on legal ethics, but Nina Totenberg is not a lawyer.
Well he is referring to NPR's ethics guide, so I don't think that's a legitimate criticism.
However he does misstate the "previewing", which refers to allowing the subject of an interview to hear the segment before it airs. There is a section however that talks about not submitting questions in advance, but I don't think that covers reviewing topics.
I don't see any conflict. Totenberg did not let slip to Ginsburg anything that she had uncovered in her job as a reporter. T. was not required to interview by ambush; it was entirely proper for T. to give G. advance notice of what she was going to ask her about. And if G. told T. any secrets, a reporter is not required to report them. In fact most reporters keep some secrets secret as a way of gaining trust and getting continued access.
It seems clear from the quotes that Totenberg was notifying Ginsburg about topics, not asking for permission. I expect it is all a matter of degree, but it wouldn't strike me as particularly ethical to avoid any advance notice and turn every interview into an ambush, that sounds like a good way for a reporter to get a reputation that ensures they won't be granted interviews in the first place.
60 Minutes stands as proof that people are stupid enough to volunteer for interviews where every bit of evidence is screaming that they're being lied to, and will be ambushed followed by abusive editing. They got away with that sort of thing for YEARS, and weren't even subtle about it.
For a great sendup of 60 Minutes, see Martin Short as Nathan Thurm on SNL. Easy to pull up on youtube.
"Defensive" is far too weak a word.
I know that. Don’t you think I know that?
That actually does seem to be a violation of NPR policy:
(I guess it's conceivable that she did clear this internally per the policy, but it certainly wasn't disclosed in the coverage, as best I can tell.)
Doesn’t sound like she violated the policy.
Especially if you put your fingers in your ears, it can sound like you want it to.
Could you walk through how she violated it?
People who recall that the Turnip admin regularly sought advice from Sean Hannity and others at FOX, and that they often appeared as MCs, hypemen, and advocates at Big Baby’s rallies, will find this alleged conflict in writing a memoir difficult to take seriously.
Another sad case of stage four TDS.
Twitter's over there weasel.
Don, I’m not sure what you’re whining about. Surely you don’t disagree with the general point Otis was making. (Although I agree that just because Fox’s nighttime hosts whored their integrity is no excuse for other people’s bad behavior.)
I tried hard to not miss any Sean Hannity interviews with Trump after any of Trump’s 1,316 scandals. Sean would spoon-feed answers to Trump, and it was hysterical to watch Trump miss the cues, and sometimes give honest (horrible) answers to Sean’s attempts to frame things in a way most helpful (or, least harmful) to Trump.
Now, I have to admit that Fox News has always made it clear that Tucker, Bill O’Reilly, Hannity, et al, are not journalists in any regard–they are there purely as entertainers. So, the standards should not be the same as for a real journalist like her. I think she is covered by the fact that every single person in media knew of this deep and long-standing friendship, so I think that people knew of the inherent bias re to friendship, factored it it, and were okay with it. (It’s not as thought journalists of all stripes don’t routinely cover people they like…and people they dislike. And still manage to be pretty fair.)
[Edited: YAY FOR THE EDIT FEATURE!!!! People called me crazy for tilting at this particular windmill for years. But I claim 0.0024% of the credit for it. Where are my virtual internet dollars?!???]
But Hannity and those like him are commentators. It is not their job to be non-partisan and they don't claim to be non-partisan.
If this is worth an article about drummed up conflict of interest, I look forward to reading what must be huindreds of articles on the extreme in your face conflicts of interest among the right wing judges and special interests. Also how they have given Trump personal control over their docket any time he asks.
I look forward to reading about the conflicts of interest between right-wing reporters at NPR and Republican-appointed justices. That would be a real equivalence. Just as soon as you identify the right-wing reporters at NPR...
The Right-Wing blogosphere has assured us that there's no conflict of interest when Thomas rules on cases that his wife was involved in, but we're supposed to be grievously offended that Ginsburg said mean things about Trump?
Talk about snowflakes.
Oh please. Ginni Thomas was not "involved in" any case that was before SCOTUS Justice Clarence. Yes she participated in conservative politics, but nothing she did would have triggered the federal statute on judicial disqualification. Other Justices have had more cause to recuse on a case due to personal involvement in the issue before the Court, but have declined to do so: Kagan (Obamacare) and Breyer (federal sentencing guidelines) for instance.
Out of curiosity and completely OT, but does anyone know what the "#2487837 (NO TITLE)" thing is at the top of the page?
It only appears on your device. People who are not under suspicion never see it.
When did you first start seeing it?
So you mean that mysterious flower van across the street that's been there for the past few weeks and this header are connected?
Man, you got the flower truck? I'm seeing the fishmonger's lorry on the regular.
It should probably say "HOME" or similar but somebody made an oopsie.
Quite a lot of lib denial and whataboutism here.
Much thanks to Ruthie's vanity and ego for leading to Dobbs and other good law.
Quite a lot of conservatives obsessing over molehills and pretending it's obviously a mountain.
"Quite a lot of conservatives obsessing over molehills and pretending it’s obviously a mountain."
Um, Joe and Brett both said it was no big deal. Meanwhile every lib here either said it was trivial or paled by comparison to Trump!!! or Thomas!!!!
If memory serves, Nina Totenberg had a long-term affair with Justice Potter Stewart. That makes her lunches with Justice Ginsberg seem tame by comparison.
Maybe she had an affair with Ruthie too?
Don't forget the uneven treatment afforded to NPR employees Nina Totenberg and Juan Williams. Williams was fired for a comment he made on Fox News Sunday. Totenberg was not sanctioned for her even more extreme comments on Meet The Press.
The thing that really irritates is NPR's holier than thou attitide.
Anybody really think journalism works any other way in Washington?
There is two basic types: Ally Journalism and adversary journalism.
The allies get the sit down interviews, the adversaries snipe questions at press conferences. Since RBG didn’t do press conferences only the allies had access.
I wonder why Mr. Adler did not mention two other potentially conflicted SCOTUS relationships that were described by Mr. Lubet in his article in 'The Hill':
"The late Justice Antonin Scalia defended his infamous duck hunt with Vice President Dick Cheney, held weeks before he voted decisively in Cheney’s favor, in similar words. “Washington officials know the rules,” he said, and never discuss “pending cases.”
"Virginia Thomas has insisted that her efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election don’t present a conflict of interest for her husband, Justice Clarence Thomas, who didn’t recuse himself from related cases before the Supreme Court. “Clarence doesn’t discuss his work with me, and I don’t involve him in my work,” she said."
In any case, it seems to me more important to think about how a reporter/partner might have actually influenced a Justice's opinions than the other way around. Moreover, when a particularly controversial case is before the Court, god-knows-who and his sister get to file amicus briefs arguing for or against a decision. We know full well that many such briefs are written or filed by various lawyers who have personal relationships with one or more Justices.
This doesn't seem all that clear cut to me. It's a journalist's job to get close to sources and individuals they interview. I'm sure lots of journalists deeply like and respect many of their subjects/sources and want those sources to like them (presidents often uses this to their advantage). Sure, don't sleep with a source but outside of that where do you draw the line between developing a relationship of trust and a conflict of interest?
Indeed, I strongly suspect the public was the beneficiary of this relationship. Sure, maybe Totenberg didn't stick RBG with gotcha questions and might not have pressed as hard in a few cases but RBG isn't some junior staffer who was going to get pressured/tricked into a stunning admission and it's not like there weren't plenty of other reporters who did ask these questions.
Likely, Totenberg's relationship meant we got information that we otherwise would have been denied. And since everyone wants to interview the justices and they have no real need to do interviews RBG could have probably exercised just as much, if not more, image control simply by looking for the reporter most eager to fawn over her to get the interview.
Having said that, I guess it does sorta depend on the context of the interview. SCOTUS interviews are different than interviewing a serial killer or Putin where a close personal friendship seems much more problematic.
On February 28, 2001, I was sworn into the Supreme Court bar, then got to sit through the oral arguments for Good News Club vs. Milford Central School. I was seated at the far right of the spectator seats, towards the front. There is a wooden railing there separating news reporters from the rest of us. Nina Totenberg was seated immediately to my right, less than 3 feet away. That was a great day.
It's the same as Biden being interviewed by Jimmy Kimmel. It's an I interview designed to make the interviewee look good.
It is what we have come to expect, no? It is not as if someone is going to ask anyone an actually challenging question, and then hold them to an answer.
The "fourth estate" is a sham and little more than a propaganda outlet for their given causes.
Before this shocking scandal broke, I had no idea Totenberg had a bias in favor of Ginsburg.
But seriously, folks, would NPR listeners tolerate a reporter who *wasn't* biased in favor of Ginsburg?
Nonsense. Professor Lubet dishonestly assumes that Totenberg didn't have approval to submit questions in advance, and fails to mention that exception to the general rule. He likewise just waves the word "entanglements" around without engaging with what that means. If she cleared the book with her supervisor, NPR's ethics guidelines are satisfied.
He presents no evidence that she actually violated their ethics rules, only that she did some things that required internal permission.
Adler, too, should be ashamed of propagating unsupported smears against a journalist he personally dislikes. It's childish.
Yeah, I'm going to presume that Totenberg's behavior had the express or tacit approval of NPR...and of her listeners, too, for that matter.
I could be wrong - maybe there's an NPR listener or an NPR board member who will get all indignant at Totenberg, but I doubt it.
The guidance also says that "If questions are submitted in advance, this will be disclosed in our coverage." To my knowledge, there was no such disclosure (which, of course, would be explained quite naturally by the editorial staff not knowing about it).
I always found it a bit strange how man Jewish liberals were at NPR and how few Catholic conservatives or Italians were at NPR...looks like there was serious over and under representation in the day...since I long ago stopped listening to NPR not sure it has changed very much.
I stopped sometime during 2015.
Shocked, shocked? Really? The scene in Casablanca comes to mind.
Getting shocked by this is like being shocked that somebody was speeding or had parking tickets or got drunk before reaching 21 or had sex before marriage. You have to be pretty ill-disposed towards the person in the first place for the idea that this is any sort of real dirt to appear credible. It’s like making a massive claim of “fraud!!!” because ballots with signatures in the wrong place were allowed (with no claim the signatures weren’t genuine, just in the wrong line on the form.)
This is bupkis. Nada. Get real. I haven’t been Justice Ginsberg’s strongest supporter on this blog. But what serious news agency wouldn’t want to make use of a long-term friendship between their reporter and a major public figure like a leading Supreme Court Justice? NPR got many scoops and a great deal of background information as a result of Nina Totenburg’s personal relationship with Justice Ginsberg. Who wouldn’t have wanted to cultivate and take advantage of the relationship?
There were of journalists and commentators out there who had an adversial relationship with Justice Ginsberg. How well did they do getting information out of her?
And how many reporters simply ignored the fact that President Trump wouldn’t talk to anyone who treated him in an adversary way?
It’s not like Fox News or Breitbart or Qanon follow perfect journalism standards either. To call this the pot calling the kettle black is putting it mildly.
This is a “Your, winnings, sir!” situation.
I mean, come on!
I do not think I care about this possible conflict of interest at NPR. The true conflict of interest is NPR reporting on the federal government because the federal government is its primary benefactor. Basically, it is state owned news.
Just another unconstitutional usurpation of power by Congress with absolutely no enumerated authority to engage in funding this activity. NPR claims only a small percentage of its budget comes from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. If so, why go berserk when funding is threatened. Is 1% really going to make or break them?
But honestly, by what constitutional authority does the CPB exist? Is that some sort of regulation of commerce? Hardly.
There are no experts on journalism ethics.
Any insight into why that defense worked for Maddow and didn't work for Jones?
There are no journalism ethics.
V,
Because the underlying facts of those two cases were vastly different. (You can start with Jones not only deliberately lying, but then making the strategic decision to double-down, and triple-down, and quadruple-down, on those same lies.) Maddow was a million miles away in terms of magnitude, repetition, and a dozen other factors.)
Also, Jones had no problem lying under oath. Repeatedly. To my understanding Maddow (and Tucker and Hannity) never lied under oath.
There're barely any journalists anymore.
You know it's untrue, but gotta get that dig in to show your partisan bonafides. Because waaaaaank
I don't know if it's true, but I bet Stewart knew a woman when he saw one.
Excellent, thank you; I watch many many hours of the pineapple under the sea dweller when my daughters were young, but somehow missed that one!