The Volokh Conspiracy
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Dobbs Won't End the Legal Battle Over Abortion
Liberals won't reconcile themselves to Dobbs, any more than conservatives accepted Roe v. Wade and Casey.

In a famous passage in his dissent in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the 1992 case that (mostly) reaffirmed Roe v. Wade, Justice Antonin Scalia chided the majority for believing "they are bringing to an end a troublesome era in the history of our Nation and of our Court." He predicted - correctly as it turned out - that the Court's ruling would actually "prolong and intensif[y]" conflict over the issue of abortion.
Today, knowledgeable conservatives probably recognize that the reversal of Casey and Roe in Dobbs won't put an end to the political struggle over abortion. At least in the short to medium term, it is likely to actually intensify it. But they may hope it will at least put an end to legal battles over abortion's status under the Constitution. If so, they are likely to be disappointed on that front.
It is obvious that Dobbs is likely to open up legal battles over such issues as whether states can bar residents from getting abortions in other states, and whether the federal government can adopt nationwide abortion bans (or nationwide laws protecting abortion rights). But Dobbs is also unlikely to definitively settle the central question it set out to consider: whether there is a constitutional right to abortion.
Just as most conservatives never accepted the legitimacy of Roe v. Wade, and waged a fifty year struggle to overturn it, so the vast majority of progressives are unlikely to accept Dobbs, and would be happy to reverse it as soon as they get a chance to do so. This is clear both from the left-liberal reaction to Dobbs since it came down, and from the development of the abortion issue over the last several decades, as well. Neither side in this constitutional debate is willing to give much, if any, credence to the legitimacy of the other.
If a future liberal Supreme Court majority reverses Dobbs, conservatives might cite the Dobbs' dissent's paeans to the value of precedent. But liberals could easily respond by citing the conservatives' own willingness to reverse precedent in Dobbs itself. Moreover, the Dobbs dissent does acknowledge that "we are not saying that a decision can never be overruled just because it is terribly wrong." Most progressives no doubt believe that Dobbs is one such "terribly wrong" ruling, perhaps even a paradigmatic example thereof.
It may seem as if a liberal Supreme court majority is a long way off. But it may not be. Dobbs is backed by a 6-3 majority (or possibly only 5-4, if you don't count Chief Justice Roberts, who would have preserved large elements of Roe). A shift of two seats (one if Roberts isn't included) would change the balance of the Court on abortion. Two of the justices in the Dobbs majority - Alito and Thomas - are well into their seventies.
They might try to time their departures from the Court to allow a GOP president to replace them. But vagaries of illness and death don't always allow such timing. Just ask Thurgood Marshall, Antonin Scalia, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, among others! If Democrats win enough presidential elections over the next 10-15 years (or just win them at the right time), they could well shift the majority on the Court.
A liberal Supreme Court majority could potentially be secured faster than that through court-packing, an idea that has entered the political mainstream in recent years, and may get further momentum on the left, as a result of Dobbs. The political odds are still against it happening. But the possibility can't be ruled out.
If the Democrats reverse Dobbs by packing the Court, I think it will ultimately be self-defeating. Republicans will just respond by packing the Court with their own jurists, the next time they get the chance, and the newly conservative Court would then once again rule against a constitutional right to abortion. Indeed, one of the main reasons why I have consistently opposed both left and right-wing court-packing plans is that the end result is likely to be the destruction of judicial review as an effective check on the power of government. Still, Democrats could potentially try court-packing regardless. It wouldn't be the first time politicians sacrificed long-term institutional values for short-term political gain.
Even aside from court-packing, Dobbs is far from secure against reversal. In trying to get rid of it, liberals are in a stronger position than conservatives were in the wake of Roe v. Wade in 1973. They need only "flip" a 6-3 (or possibly 5-4) majority, as opposed to the 7-2 one that decided Roe. In addition, they have a robust pipeline of high-quality potential nominees who can be depended on to vote the right (or perhaps, really, the "left") way on abortion. By contrast, conservatives in the 1970s and 80s had to cope with a GOP legal establishment that still had a relatively thin bench of pro-life jurists, which contributed to the nomination of several Republican Supreme Court justices (O'Connor, Kennedy, and Souter) who ended up voting to reaffirm Roe.
Stare decisis is an important influence on judicial decision-making. But it is at its weakest when it comes to decisions Supreme Court justices believe are profoundly harmful and wrong. That's what led conservative justices to reverse Roe and Casey. And it could well lead future liberal justices to reverse Dobbs, in turn.
Could anything ever end the legal struggle over abortion? Yes. The fight could end if American society reaches a broad consensus on the issue (similar to that which exists in many European countries, which have rules more restrictive than the Roe regime was, but less so than demanded by US pro-lifers). The 14-week limits that exist in France and Germany are good examples. If US public opinion reaches a similar consensus, few people would care about the details of abortion jurisprudence, so long as it doesn't bar the policies favored by that consensus. Alternatively, legal elites could reach a consensus on constitutional methodology that clearly resolves the abortion issue one way or the other.
But neither voters nor legal elites are likely to develop a broad consensus on this matter anytime soon. Unless and until they do, the struggle over the constitutional status of abortion is likely to continue.
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Should America adopt a form of Canada's "notwithstanding clause", allowing short term legislative overrides of decisions related to constitutional rights? Doing so would reduce the fear that the next Supreme Court decision could be the worst event in the history of humanity. You could require a supermajority vote, so California could go on grabbing guns / protecting safety and Texas could go on oppressing women / saving babies as long as each state remains really solidly blue or red. The sane states would follow the Supreme Court's advice.
Congress has a way to override a Supreme Court Decision. See Article V of the constitution.
Damn Race-ists Originalists!!! We've got "Penumbras"!!!!!
These Ivy indoctrinated scumbags ruled you can't sue the police for a failure to Mirandize. That is now a standard of due care.
This Court can really make itself useful. It can reverse Marbury, a corrupt, lawless, garbage decision. It has been an unmitigated catastrophe for our nation. It has been worse than any natural disaster.
This decision judged at its most pessimistic is not the worst event in the history of humanity. It’s not in the top 1000. I hope you’re kidding?
Dumbest post by someone not named Rev? You win!
Should we effectively repeal the Constitution, by allowing the elected branches to violate it whenever they really want to?
No.
It will certainly intensify when several blue states start legalizing abortion up until the time the woman goes into labor
That already exists in several states, including New Mexico and New Jersey. Has for a while.
excuse me for being unaware of just how evil the pro abortionists have become since Roe
Excuse you for being a gullible idiot. Is there no kind of right-wing propaganda you won't swallow whole, no matter how absurd?
Reminder: According to the CDC, 91 percent of all abortions are performed in the first trimester. 98.7 percent during the first 20 weeks. By the last trimester, the number of abortions are so microscopically tiny as to be statically non-existent and ALL are driven by medical emergency. The reason you "believe" your ghoulish fantasies about late-term abortion is pure desperation. America's Taliban needs extravagant lies on late abortion to shore-up support on the issue.
Abortions in the US are estimated around 900,000 annually. 1 in 5 American babies are aborted. For perspective, abortion is the leading cause of death worldwide at more than 42 million annually, over half of all deaths.
But your argument that "It's only around 12,000 to 80,000 killing deaths and therefore you're a gullible idiot and Taliban because I've declared that number of deaths to be microscopically tiny" is certainly . . . interesting.
"and ALL are driven by medical emergency."
Where "medical emergency" can vary from "woman is about to die" in one jurisdiction, to "doctor says she'd be really upset about giving live birth" in another. With "she'd be really upset" as the majority reason for late term abortions.
It's standard for abortion defenders to claim that late term elective abortions simply don't happen. Even the pro-choice Guttmacher Institute won't defend that claim!
"Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous."
You will search that article in vain for any mention of medical necessity or emergencies. The only reason they give for late term abortions was the failure to procure one earlier.
"Excuse you for being a gullible idiot. Is there no kind of right-wing propaganda you won't swallow whole, no matter how absurd?"
This isn't "propaganda". It's state law and fact.
" By the last trimester, the number of abortions are so microscopically tiny "
This requires facts to back it up. There are roughly 600,000 abortions in the US every year. Let's say just 0.1% are in the third trimester. That's still 600 abortions
Yeah, but there aren't .1% of abortions in the third trimester - by then the numbers are so small as to be effectively .00%
Just like I said. Your late-term abortion schtick is a total sham, as is Brett's above. You take a microscope number of procedures driven by medical necessity and use it cover the fact that no one really believes your bullshit that every zygote or embryo is little Billy, Sally or Spiff. You want the entire anti-abortion moment explained to you? Here goes:
(1) It is the easiest, most care-free piety available in the marketplace today. Usually righteousness requires hard choices, difficult decisions or painful ethical dilemmas. Not abortion! It pits wanton sluts against cherubic proto-babies. What could be simpler and more consumer-friendly. The average posturing Philistine doesn't even have to break a sweat....
(2) And it is ALL about those sluts, who can't be permitted to get away with it. That's why not one person in a hundred cares about IVF clinics: No harlots to punish; no babies involved. The fact that Dobbs will destroy the lives of thousands of thousands of women each year isn't a bug, it's the central feature. It's the point of the whole faux-pious hysteria.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/04/raw-data-abortions-by-week-of-pregnancy/
Been out of touch for umm, the last 20 years?
This is exactly right. Anti abortion groups spent 50 years getting Roe overturned. Now we’ll see how long it takes pro choice groups to overturn Dobbs. If I had to lay money on it I’d say maybe ten years.
Then the new scheme will be overturned a few years later. Congrats.
Maybe. The Dobbs decision was completely gratuitous because they didn’t need to overturn Roe to decide the case. The immediate issue was whether a 15 week ban is constitutional, something they could have decided without revisiting Roe. The Supreme Court picked a fight it didn’t need to.
I can see a future Supreme Court saying that was completely off the rails, reversing it, and then not touching it again.
No one can argue with fan fiction.
Overturning Dobbs doesn’t reinstate pre-Dobbs gobbledygook. The court would have to write a new set of laws. There’s no good reason to believe they'd craft the specific language you want or that future courts would honor the new judge-written laws you think you might get.
Also no indications Dems will be able to nominate and confirm any justices in the foreseeable future. Someday, sure.
I wouldn’t discount Democratic prospects just yet; I’ve seen too many times that one or the other party was declared dead only to resurrect in short order. Don’t forget all those predictions in 2008 after Obama’s victory that the Republicans would never take the White House again.
As far as the practical effect of overturning Dobbs, all they would need to say is what I said above: overturning Roe wasn’t necessary to decide the case so that part of the decision is vacated. Then Roe is back.
I doubt you can find examples of SCOTUS just undoing a major decision and reverting the previous rules. Especially when the previous rules were lots of court-written nonsense piled on top of older court-written nonsense.
Why wouldn’t justices tempted to do something like that want to go the rest of the way and craft new rules that fit their personal preferences?
Indeed.
Because despite right wing claims that liberal justices do nothing except enact their personal preferences, that’s not the way it works. Any institution run by humans will have a certain amount of confirmation bias; that’s human nature. But underneath it is usually an honest belief that they’re following the law.
Whether a reversal reverts to the previous rules would depend on what exactly they said. I’ve already offered a way they could reinstate Roe if they chose to take that route. Of course there are other routes they could take instead. Or maybe once Democrats do have the votes they simply do protect abortion rights legislatively and at the national level, and the issue then goes away. Who knows.
But one thing I’m quite confident of. Dobbs will not be the last word.
There’s personal preferences and there’s the text of the constitution. Abortion isn’t in the text.
Lots of rights aren't in the text. This is a loser of a talking point.
But NONE of them can take an innocent human life. That's what made Roe and Casey different.
Antisocial, autistic malcontents have difficulty with anything that is not expressly detailed in the code. With some tasks this makes them better workers but in general it impairs their ability to contribute to or learn from arguments, especially with respect to nuance and human interactions.
Federal legislation would only really make the issue go away if it was broadly bipartisan, with something like two-thirds to three-quarters of representatives in support.
This would take some sort of grand compromise. My guess is that is wouldn't be all that hard to get the democrats behind a 15, 14, or even 13 week limit. The other side would never give up an inch, because baby murder is baby murder if you believe stuff about souls being formed at conception (or sometimes before, given god's plan).
Plus, there are probably plenty of politicians who'd prefer to keep things divisive so as not to lose the vote getting capability of this issue.
So, this issue will probably see-saw for another century or so, or until there is a technological solution that prevents pregnancy in a morally neutral way.
I agree that the issue would only go away if legislation was a broadly bipartisan compromise.
I wouldn't count on it being that easy to get most Democrats in the House behind a 13-15 week limit.
(1) They'd worry about being primaried on the issue, which is the major fear for many members of the House of Reps these days given the number of safe seats.
(2) A disproportionate number of these Democratic reps come from states that have (or soon will have) laws allowing abortion much later into pregnancy. So, to their own constituents, they'd be *tightening* abortion laws versus what those constituents have before the compromise.
So add up that combination for a Democratic member of the House from a safe seat in California, New York, etc. And, of course, the people you're upsetting on this issue are one of the best organized interest groups in your party, who will organize and come out to vote in a primary. And God help you if you're a man voting for this compromise and get primaried by a woman running on this issue.
To be clear, I'm not arguing that Republican members of the House would likely be any more willing to like that compromise, just that Democrats wouldn't either.
Perhaps there's a chance a compromise like this could happen 20-30 years down the road. Not saying it's guaranteed - or even likely - but it would require that the ongoing process of deciding this issue in state legislatures leads to the election of politicians in both parties who are closer to the national median on the issue.
"My guess is that is wouldn't be all that hard to get the democrats behind a 15, 14, or even 13 week limit."
Dobbs was over a 15 week limit, so no, the Democrats will not get behind it. The pro-lifers were willing to compromise, but Democrats fought limitations on late-term abortions.
Then it was a major error for the solicitor general to say that to uphold the Mississippi law they had to reverse Roe.
But as Alito explained, Roes holding centered around viability, and 15 weeks is nowhere near viability.
You’d just be writing a decision based on a meme:
Tell me you are overruling Roe without saying you are overruling Roe.
I fully expect the Democrats to lose Congress this fall, and the White House in 2024.
But then the Republicans will probably only hold onto the White house for 8 years, and a Democratic administration, probably with a Democratic Congress, will be back.
Since the Republicans broke the lock on Congress back in '94, the parties have been alternating like that, as each one disappoints/disgusts while in power, and memories of how awful the opposing party was fade, so the independents flip to the opposing party, and then are reminded of why they didn't like them.
But, sooner or later, this cycling is going to be disrupted, because the Democrats are getting ever less tolerant of the idea that anybody who disagrees with them is allowed to be in power. I expect that the next time they hold that 'trifecta' they'll make their move to turn the US into a one party state.
But, sooner or later, this cycling is going to be disrupted, because the Democrats are getting ever less tolerant of the idea that anybody who disagrees with them is allowed to be in power. I expect that the next time they hold that 'trifecta' they'll make their move to turn the US into a one party state.
Yeah, didn't you see them storm the Capitol to overturn the election they lost?
Projection is much more fun in film class, Brett.
So, they write a new set of laws. They wrote one before, they write one again.
Or if (as you argue) they find doing that difficult, they can just write one sentence, say “we hereby reinstste Roe and Casey, and the rules are as stated in those cases and the caselaw on them prior to Dobbs.”
And then they’re done.
No fuss, no muss.
There are of course arguments why a democratic majority shouldn’t overturn Dobbs. It’s less likely, but there might even be arguments they might be willing to consider. But difficulty coming up with rules surely isn’t going to be one of them.
I accept that you would find it difficult. But the fact you find it difficult doesn’t mean they would.
"The Dobbs decision was completely gratuitous because they didn’t need to overturn Roe to decide the case."
C'est la vie.
Your state is free to allow abortions thru the 8th trimester if you so wish.
" Then the new scheme will be overturned a few years later. "
I doubt there will be enough misogynistic, gullible, racist, superstitious, half-educated, xenophobic, gay-hating Republicans left in America to overturn liberal-libertarian mainstream improvement in America.
So let's see. After better Americans enlarge the Court and diminish our system's structural amplification of hayseed votes, deplorable Republicans will be welcome to do their damnedest to send America back a century or two.
Or you could just pass a law protecting abortion via legislation...
And if the Supreme Court decided there is no private right to gun ownership I suppose you’d be satisfied with protecting gun rights legislatively?
The Second Amendment is explicitly written into the US Constitution, like Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of the Press is. Importantly, those rights were put into effect via the Democratic Process. Explicitly.
The "Right to an Abortion" is not. It never made any sense really. "You have the right to an abortion, but only for the first 2 trimesters?"
The proper place for it is legislation.
The second amendment that's written in the Constitution is pretty distant from modern 2A jurisprudence i.e. Heller (which dropped the militia parts entirely, but added in self-defense).
A nothing-but-the-text approach to the second amendment would certainly allow the gun restrictions at issue in Heller and Bruen.
In what way?
Heller dealt with a handgun ban.
Because having a handgun loaded and unlocked in your house isn't necessary (or even particularly valuable) for bearing arms in the context of a militia. To the extent handguns are useful at all to a militia (debatable), they can be "kept" unloaded and locked.
Heller focused on self-defense, which isn't part of the text.
You aren’t much of a second amendment scholar are you?
The 2nd wasn’t written to carve out and delineate a new right, it was written to preserve an existing right, and a core part of that pre-existing right was self defense, from the English Declaration of Rights in 1689:
“Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law”
Perhaps, but you're jumping into the middle of a thread you clearly didn't read. The premise is, what if we ignored all that, and took a 100% textual approach.
Those are the constant debates.
What's "militia" mean in context based on usage in the 18th-century? One view is that it was commonly used to mean simply all able-bodied adult men.
Same question for "well-regulated". One view is that at the time "well-regulated militia" meant roughly "all able-bodied men being usefully familiar with the use of firearms", not the modern sense of regulated meaning "overseen by government".
And Volokh has made the case that it's a common feature of similar 18th century legal writing (such as in state constitutions of the time) that there's an operative clause intended to stand on its own (the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed) and a prefatory clause (a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State) that states a purpose without intending to limit the operative clause.
https://reason.com/2019/11/03/what-is-a-well-regulated-militia-anyway/
I buy all that. But Heller (and Bruen) would still've come out differently.
The second amendment doesn't protect all arms for any purpose. So what does it protect? As you point out, the purpose is in the text: militias. Even taking your broad approach to militias, i.e. an individual right to have the weaponry necessary to participate, it doesn't protect other endeavors, like self-defense and hunting. You don't need a concealed handgun in order to be effective in a militia.
(Again, this is taking a purely text-based approach, which I don't advocate, but comes up a lot.)
Armchair Lawyer, so what? I’m neither a textualist nor an originalist. I don’t care that the word abortion appears nowhere in the Constitution.
Comparing guns to abortion is stupid. You don’t care? Whatever.
An enumerated right is much more solidly based than an inferred right. Doesn’t matter whether you care.
This is such a silly argument. The right to liberty is an enumerated right. No one's ever going to knock on your door and say "I have a warrant here for your liberty, please surrender it into this Tupperware here." (And if they did, and you were Justice Thomas, you'd have to go along, because for him, a warrant counts as due process no matter what it's for.)
For the liberty guarantee to mean anything, we have to put some things in that bucket, like abortion.
The second amendment is the same way. It says "arms," but it doesn't enumerate a right to handguns, for example. Scalia found the right to possess a handgun in the "penumbra" of the second amendment (using some very dubious history I might add).
The Constitution rarely speaks to specifics. All the details are left to the three branches to fill in as appropriate. That applies to handguns and abortions equally.
There are plenty of things that one could put into the bucket of liberty in the 5A and 14A (or the 14A's "privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States") well before getting to a right to abortion.
We can start with the basic of not being imprisoned by the government, which fits well in the context of "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".
Expanding on that could include, for example, presumptive general rights to travel within and between states and to engage in business and commerce.
Of course. But none of those are enumerated. It's fine to have arguments against a right to abortion, but "it's not enumerated" is a piss poor one.
I shouldn't use the term "enumerated" since I'm not suggesting they're grounded in the 9th. Let's use "explicit." None of the components of liberty you mentioned are explicit, so they're all on the same footing as abortion.
I didn’t say liberty doesn’t exist. He said enumerated rights aren’t any stronger than others and he’s wrong.
I understand that rights can be understood to be there. Sex isn’t mentioned in the constitution but we’re at liberty to do it. Same with eating cold pizza.
Abortion is about a conflict of rights. I don’t have an answer for it but I recognize that the self styled Party of Science chooses to ignore science on it and (example above) treat it’s opponents like Jesus freaks.
You’re arguing against something I didn’t say. Dial back the emotion and try to be rational.
Abortion is enumerated, as an element of liberty in the 14th. I'm actually not aware of any rights being grounded in the 9th. Modern interpretation of the 9th is that it cannot ground a right, it's just an interpretive shield. In other words, there are no unenumerated federal rights.
Legislation?? are you Mad!??!?!?!??!?
That's just crazy talk. Legislators can't make new law; that's up to the bureaucrats working for the Executive.
A good first step would be to tell people that screaming isn’t an argument and the screamers probably hurt their own cause. Same with terrorism. Same with all the rest of the histrionics.
After that, some people need to realize that temporary 52-48% (or similar size) majorities can’t really change things in the long term. You can’t permanently dictate to 40-49% of the population. Because sometimes they show up to vote better than your side. Sometimes independents join them and they’re 50+% and all your diktats get reversed by the same tiny margins you used to establish them. Other times the 40-49% resist or delay or otherwise effectively thwart your schemes.
Hopefully this lesson gets learned and America can go back to being one country that pulls together a little bit at least. The next couple years can be a time of reflection on what was actually gained by 20+ years of phony drama (that we’ve all now learned to completely tune out).
List of things that never, ever, ever work:
#1
It doesn’t shut them up, but it sets them aside so everyone else can ignore them.
Ultimately the screamers are never going to be part of any sane answers anyway. Keeping them in play makes sane policy compromises a lot harder. And it was already extremely difficult.
Still, Democrats could potentially try court-packing regardless. It wouldn't be the first time politicians sacrificed long-term institutional values for short-term political gain.
That hazard went sky-high this year, and especially last week. But not just for short-term political gain. From a Democrat-leaning standpoint, Dobbs and Bruen, and whatever the court serves up to armor-plate business against legal changes from climate disruption, have become symptoms pointing to a systemic malady which threatens to become permanent, not short-term.
Democrats think there is a very long-term loss about to be inflicted—a functional end to majority-rule democracy in America. Maybe an end to meaningful elections. They are assembling evidence to back those fears, and sell them as politics.
Expect Democratic Party politicians to deny any intent to restructure the Supreme Court, so long as they lack power to do it. The moment Democrats assemble sufficient political power to impose court reform of their own design, expect it to happen.
Republican overreach will get its answer. Expect part of the answer to include structural changes to suppress tit-for-tat retaliation. Sufficient political power to reform the Court implies sufficient power to create other sweeping reforms. Democrats have finally learned the unwisdom of too much normative thinking, and too much institutional constraint, when dealing with extreme right wingers who have thrown those values overboard.
The outrage over Bruen is just overblown hysteria that fails to recognize the ground truth that the vast majority of states were already, "shall issue..." states. The situation was only changed in a few States that were pretty clearly in violation of the standards of Heller.
I agree that Dobbs is different. And that the Republicans would have been better off if Roberts had been able to convince either Barrett or Kavanaugh to join is opinion. Upholding both Dobbs and Roe.
Roe was a bad decision. Not necessarily because of the subject matter, but because it wasn't based on any real legal precedent or rationale. Especially the "trimester" system it worked with. It forced the Justices to basically make the system up out of whole cloth....which is what legislatures do. Not Justices.
Kicking it to the people to let them decide, via democratic measures, is the best option here.
Kicking it to the people to decide is a good idea. But the "democratic process" isn't necessary. Let each individual decide for himself or herself what his or her personal policy regarding abortion shall be. That way you can have a policy as pro-life as you wish, and your fellow citizens need not be involved at all.
You know, I think you're on to something. And since it would be impossible to reliably interview unborn individuals, of necessity we'd need to presume their own personal policy regarding abortion would be to skip it and live.
Robert’s opinion didn’t uphold Roe. It merely put off the decision of whether to uphold bans earlier than 6 weeks for another day. Nothing in the opinion assured that Roe should survive the first case squarely challenging it. He just said he that this case wasn’t the right one to do that. Since the only question this case posed was whether a 15 week ban is constitutional, that’s the only question the court should have decided.
So presumably as soon as a case worked past the standing complications of the Texas Heartbeat Act and found its way to SCOTUS as an ~6 week ban.
"We lost, so let's destroy the institution".
Sounds downright Trumpian.
Nonsense. It's the Democrats that have thrown "values" overboard, by replacing the American people with third world immigrants, *solely* for electoral advantage. They even acknowledge that "demographics is destiny!"
Majority-rule democracy went out the window when the population that the "majority" is composed of was replaced.
Delusional and racist. I guess it's not surprising that those things correlate.
It's actually 100% spot on.
The American population has been systematically diluted since 1965, which is the only reason that the insane ideas of the left can get any traction.
I hope law deans are being asked, during their periodic reviews, whether they intend to hire any more faculty members inclined to operate blogs that attract (and flatter) swarms of bigots.
"Expect Democratic Party politicians to deny any intent to restructure the Supreme Court, so long as they lack power to do it. The moment Democrats assemble sufficient political power to impose court reform of their own design, expect it to happen."
So nice we can agree about something. Not your complaints, maybe, but at least this prediction.
"Expect part of the answer to include structural changes to suppress tit-for-tat retaliation. "
Exactly what I've been saying: Nobody is going to pack the Court and skip enacting the sort of entrenchment legislation an unpacked Court would have struck down. Packing the Court is pulling the emergency stop on Erdogan's train: Once you've brought it to a stop at your station, you disembark. You don't hold a picnic and then watch the train pull away.
All this talk of tit for tat is fatuous. When the Court gets packed, that's game over for democracy. People who think that we're going to continue meaningful democracy after Court packing simply have not thought this through.
Democracy? Most Americans despise conservative positions. Especially the educated, reasoning, accomplished Americans living in strong, modern, productive communities.
For this tit-for-tat argument to be persuasive, you would have to give an explanation for why such tit-for-tat didn't occur in the past when Congress altered the Court's membership. Changes in the number of justices may have been tied to the then existing judicial circuits, but party politics was involved in deciding when to create new circuits, thereby increases the number of justices, which the majority party would confirm. Yet the tit-for-tat you claim will happen, didn't happen.
The Supreme Court has had nine justices since 1869 -- since 1837 if you disregard temporary changes around the Civil War, which Congress apparently decided were self-defeating errors. 185 years of history is a pretty strong argument.
Exactly!
185 years of history is a pretty strong argument.
Now do gun control.
Sure. The 2nd amendment didn't really become an issue until the feds got into the game in the mid 20th century. Yeah, it was being violated on a local basis as part of Jim Crow, but only where doing so was locally popular. The situation was legally obnoxious, but fairly stable.
Then the feds got into the gun control game, which resulted in gun control being imposed in places where it wasn't remotely popular. That's what energized the popular movement to get the 2nd amendment actually enforced.
The truth is that the anti-gun movement over-reached by taking gun control national, and now they're paying the price.
I wonder if something happened in the 1st half of the 20th century that made people think interstate commerce in fire arms might need looking into.
Oh, I'm sure they had what they thought was an adequate excuse for what they were doing, but the end result was the same: For the first time we had gun control imposed where it wasn't popular, and the result was a popular movement to fight back against it.
Much the same with abortion: The pro-choicers could get their abortion legalized where doing so was popular, and without a major nation-wide movement to fight abortion at the national level. But they over-reached with Roe, taking abortion policy national, and imposing abortion legality where it wasn't popular, and way beyond the degree to which it was popular even where it had been legal.
It's a political mistake taking policies national when public opinion is heterogeneous, it breeds national opposition that might just turn the tables.
But it'll be fine to impose a national abortion ban when Rs next get a trifecta, of course.
I don't think so, and I'm pretty darned pro-life. There's simply no enumerated powers basis for the federal government to do that. Doesn't really matter that I think it would be good police IF it was constitutional, because it's not.
Likewise, there's no enumerated powers basis for the federal government to mandate that abortion must be legal. It's just not something that's within the federal government's domain.
Most things aren't, after all.
It is obvious that Dobbs is likely to open up legal battles over such issues as whether states can bar residents from getting abortions in other states, and whether the federal government can adopt nationwide abortion bans (or nationwide laws protecting abortion rights).
No and no. Did you even read the ruling? Expand your news sources.
"whether states can bar residents from getting abortions in other states"
They can't. Anymore than they can prevent residents from gambling in other states.
Ehhh, they can prevent minors from doing so without prior parental permission.
"It is obvious that Dobbs is likely to open up legal battles over such issues as whether states can bar residents from getting abortions in other states, and whether the federal government can adopt nationwide abortion bans (or nationwide laws protecting abortion rights)."
No, and No. State law not reaching into other states, and freedom of travel, are on very solid grounds, and as Dobbs stands for the proposition that abortion simply isn't a federal issue, the Court is not going to just do an about face.
"By contrast, conservatives in the 1970s and 80s had to cope with a GOP legal establishment that still had a relatively thin bench of pro-life jurists, which contributed to the nomination of several Republican Supreme Court justices (O'Connor, Kennedy, and Souter) who ended up voting to reaffirm Roe."
Conservatives in the 70's and 80's had to cope with a GOP political establishment that didn't really care about abortion, and so weren't actually vetting judicial candidates on that basis. Please, let's not pretend Souter was a mistake.
O'Conner, Kennedy, and Souter are why we’re talking about this now and not 20 years ago. GOP voters have learned and continue to learn.
The GOP political establishment didn't care about much of anything that conservatives cared about, not just abortion. Not gun rights, not the death penalty, not immigration restrictions, not private property rights (see Kelo v. New London), and a multitude of others. The only real difference between the GOP establishment and the Democrats is their embrace of lower taxes.
As you can see from the gun bill that passed thanks to Republican turncoats, including the former Republican Speaker, a large part of the GOP political establishment STILL don't care about much of anything their voting base care about.
Jesus Christ, Brett. Don't step an inch outside the box for any reason or you'll be ridiculed and shunned. No wonder all our politicians do is scream at each other and no wonder why we just lurch from one extreme to the other in terms of the rules. It's all the zealots will allow them to do.
Meanwhile a guy like Trump can do or say whatever he wants. He can cost your party control of the Senate in a fit of pique because he got his ass kicked. He's poisoned your party - they're publicly supporting an obvious falsehood because it's the only way to appease the megalomaniac. And you give him a lifetime pass.
Of course Trump gets a lifetime pass. He gave them Dobbs, and that's all they ever cared about.
While it is understood that a state cannot charge a woman with a crime for obtaining an abortion in another state how does having an aborting on Federal property, should Biden declare military bases will provide them, or on Indian Reservations.
Seems Indian Reservations could become an interesting challenge in states which ban abortion.
with the new status quo it is simple. The Reservations get to have their own policy. It gets stickier with the regime progs want to put into place. You'll have to sacrifice indigenous rights leftists supposedly respect for women's 'rights' err I mean reproductive 'rights' can't forget those pregnant men. After all, if abortion is a moral imperative then the government should force all indians to build abortion clinics whether they want to or not.
On Indian reservations, here's a legal analysis saying that "it's complicated" and highly dependent on facts. So, just setting up an abortion clinic on an Indian reservation and providing abortions to non-Indians doesn't automatically and clearly get around state laws. https://lpeproject.org/blog/the-indian-country-abortion-safe-harbor-fallacy/
State criminal law would apply to a non-Indian who provided an abortion for a non-Indian patient. And it would apply to Indian providers and Indian patients at some reservations where federal law has granted states concurrent jurisdiction.
State civil law's applicability seems to be a very complicated topic, but it would generally apply to non-Indians on reservations unless pre-empted by a system of federal regulation.
Oklahoma might be an interesting case because of the number of people there of at least partial Indian descent.
Plenty of typical expression of left-wing political views in this article, but it does raise some interesting political points on why tribes might not want to do this. Some may not because of their own internal political debates about abortion. There could also be some understandable pushback if tribal members think that their political leaders are spending a lot of time and resources to figure out a workaround that mainly benefits non-Indians.
There's also a rather complicated federal enclave doctrine that means Congress has exclusive legislative rights over some federal property and that some state laws therefore don't apply.
It's a property-by-property analysis because it requires that the federal government procured the property and that the state legislature consented to it. But some of those consents included states expressly reserving the right to legislate on certain matters.
https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/federal-enclave-doctrine-potentially-powerful-defense-state-employment
"While it is understood that a state cannot charge a woman with a crime for obtaining an abortion in another state how does having an aborting on Federal property, should Biden declare military bases will provide them, or on Indian Reservations."
States can make the Feds work REALLY hard to deal with their lands if the Feds really want to go scorched earth here.
Note: Military bases NOW do not offer abortions. At all. Good luck getting funding to offer them.
There's a federal law requiring state law to be enforced on military bases unless some federal statute says otherwise.
I think most people are willing to accept some sort of compromise solution to the abortion issue except a politically irrelevant sliver of conservatives who want a nationwide ban and 90% of leftists who want balls to the wall unrestricted unlimited 100% taxpayer funded on demand infanticide up until birth and sometime after with a parallel fully taxpayer funded multibillion dollar yearly media blitz shilling what a wonderful thing it is.
Because of the second group we're doomed to fight this battle for the foreseeable future.
So what are some of these leftist Democrat reforms, Stephen? And why do you think that they will have enduring popularity?
I just think it's wonderful we live in a country were we can debate abortion.
I think this past week has, much as it has put a smile on my face, pretty much cemented the absolute certainty that Democrats WILL pack the Court the first time they're in a position to do so.
If Republicans don't want that to happen, they MUST pursue an amendment fixing the size of the Court. Yes, the Democrats would not vote for it, guaranteeing its failure in Congress. But Court packing is very unpopular, as the 2024 elections approached this would be a difficult position for them to maintain, and possibly politically fatal.
It would always be possibly done via the Constitutional Convention route.
You mean when they control the presidency and both houses of congress, like they do now?
No, when they control the White House, and have enough of a margin in the House and Senate to make up for a couple hold-outs.
The difference with Roe is that with Dobbs, not even its supporters know what it means. All the questions posed here are mysteries to pro-lifers. If you ask what abortion penalties would be, if you ask what happens with out-of state abortions, or "suspicious" miscarriages, or publicly drunk pregnant women, they act offended as if these are improper questions. The truth is they simply haven't thought about them.
Yes, exactly. The dog caught the car, and then got run over and exploded blood and guts all across the land.
Americans are not going to like the spectacle of militant antiabortionists being in control of women's pregnancies.
Then perhaps they should vote for politicians who aren't militant antiabortionists?
Because you think America has a functioning democracy?
13 states have "trigger laws" that have (or soon will) go into effect after Dobbs. So in these states it's quite clear what will happen.
Here, for example, is the text of Texas's trigger law - https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/pdf/HB01280F.pdf#navpanes=0 . A non-exhaustive list is that it prohibits abortion throughout pregnancy with an exception for life or serious physical impairment of the mother, imposes criminal and civil penalties on abortion providers, and prohibits criminal or civil penalties on the woman who obtains an abortion.
Not every state has this legal framework, and maybe some legislators want to consider additional laws. But captcrisis hasn't been looking into the issue if he thinks these questions are just a blank slate everywhere.
"Here, for example, is the text of Texas's trigger law - https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/pdf/HB01280F.pdf#navpanes=0 . A non-exhaustive list is that it prohibits abortion throughout pregnancy with an exception for life or serious physical impairment of the mother, imposes criminal and civil penalties on abortion providers, and prohibits criminal or civil penalties on the woman who obtains an abortion."
And they will not like how supported that policy is by voters.
"And they will not like how supported that policy is by voters."
You may well be correct. I live in Texas, and it's not my preferred policy outcome (which is a ban on abortions after something in the range of 12-15 weeks). That said, it's also not terribly high on the list of things likely to determine how I vote, at least right now.
I was intending to respond to captcrisis' claim that "not even its supporters know what [Dobbs] means". And I'm saying that pro-lifers in legislatures in 13 states - presumably lining up pretty well as the ones most likely to implement strict restrictions on abortion - have thought about what it means and put in place legislation. captcrisis can read said legislation and see how it addresses the questions that he raises.
It would be bad for ideology(s) but good for the country right now if an Amendment were passed fixing the number of Justices as it currently stands. It would remove the potential avenue of One-upmanship court packing to achieve a desired ruling. It would also make elections far more consequential.
Overall I like any decision that strips Washington of power and returns it to the state or the people, but if I have to stack the deck to do it, it would be illegitimate, unworthy of respect, and could be safely ignored.
Bottom line is if you want something to be the law of the land, or at least that law of the state, then do it through the legislative process, don't use the courts as a end run to accomplish what is impossible otherwise.
Gotta laugh at Illya's crap posting of something like this:
"In addition, they have a robust pipeline of high-quality potential nominees who can be depended on to vote the right (or perhaps, really, the "left") way on abortion. By contrast, conservatives in the 1970s and 80s had to cope with a GOP legal establishment that still had a relatively thin bench of pro-life jurists, which contributed to the nomination of several Republican Supreme Court justices (O'Connor, Kennedy, and Souter) who ended up voting to reaffirm Roe."
While the wise latina, the out of the closet lezzie, and the black woman in waiting may be reliable votes they are far from "high-quality". Say what you want about Ginsberg but she was a force to be reconned with and had the ability to formulate great arguments, even if you did not agree with them. The current three liberal women justices who hit all the woke benchmarks really don't have a lot of horse power in the legal sense. Truth be told I only view Alito and Gorsuch as what I call top tier legal minds on the SC.
Even worse is I can't really name a lot of top tier legal minds, pub or dem; and even fewer who have any realistic possibility to wind up as a SCJ.
Yeah, you can fuck right off with this shit.
Eat shit and die turd face.
What a forceful argument, the defense of the woke tokens on the SC is absolutely the most thorough defense of their abilities I have ever seen.
Ginsberg was the worst justice of my lifetime. She basically came right out and said the law doesn't matter. It's her feelings that do.
Thats the problem. The three libs don't consider the law at all in their rulings. Its the agenda.
While I seldom agreed with Ginsberg I have to give her props for her ability to change minds. I still think she had more horsepower than the three weak liberal sisters on the SC. While Barret is too new for me to say that about her she may likely wind up in the same class.
We reached a broad consensus on slavery even though it had been a facet of human civilization for millenia. We'll get there on the barbarity of abortion at some point too.
There are only two ways this will be true.
1. Antiabortionists completely change their attitudes about pregnant women and raising children. As long as they think of pregnancy and children as punishments for sex, we're not going to get anywhere.
2. Contraception becomes 100% effective, so that there's really no such thing as an unintentional pregnancy.
100% effective contraception is unlikely because of the human factor. Most current contraception is well over 90% effective but failure on the part of humans to use it is the reason for so many unintentional pregnancies.
It is the pro abortion cult of moloch that sees children as a punishment. Sorry, but it's time for you to give up childish things and become a responsible human being.
Right, generally speaking pro-lifers consider children to be more of a reward than a punishment.
Hardly. Even on this very blog, the argument is commonly made that it's ok to force women to carry a pregnancy due to their irresponsibility in having gotten pregnant in the first place.
Yes, this is exactly the way it will happen. People's minds will change on abortion, in time. It's barbaric, literally tearing limb from limb.
This is a lengthy post, that demands the Nation be governed by SCOTUS.
Obama had the super majority, congress never worked up a bill.
Democrats only care about abortion for the purpose of splitting voters into teams.
Why dont we give states 50 years. See it they can do better than killing 50 million babies.
If Woman’s Health/June Medical is any indication, Roberts would be likely to apply stare decisis to uphold Dobbs in any future case. The likelihood should be even stronger, since he disagreed with Woman’s Health and likely agrees with Dobbs on the merits. But who ever knows with Roberts?
The problem is of course that there is a broad consensus in favour of legalised abortion, and there has been for decades. It's just that the American Taliban don't care, and that won't change anytime soon.
Passing legislation will be easy, with all public support.
It would be if the US was a functioning democracy.
The problem here is that when you say, "a broad consensus in favour of legalised abortion", you're eliding critical details.
There's a broad consensus in favor of abortion being legal where medically necessary. Not one of the state laws liberals are yelling about don't allow this. This is what the left relies on to claim a broad consensus for abortion being legal.
There's a shallow consensus in favor of elective abortion being legal early in pregnancy. It evaporates after the 1st trimester. You probably WILL have political blow-back in states that entirely ban elective abortion at all stages of gestation, but it will be least in the states where abortion is particularly unpopular, so the political effect will be limited.
There's also a shallow consensus in favor of abortion in cases of rape or incest, which really doesn't make much sense from a moral theory perspective, but most people don't engage in rigorous analysis from principles, they just do some sort of balancing. Since basically nobody doesn't know they were raped before the 1st trimester is up, and since Dobbs made clear that it did NOT apply to emergency contraception such as Plan B, this is largely subsumed by the consensus for 1st trimester elective abortion.
So, I don't see much potential for political backlash, really, and you shouldn't expect it, because legislatures tend to have a good feel for public opinion, it's essential to job security.
Actually, I'd expect about as much backlash in 'blue' states that react to Dobbs by legalizing elective abortion right up until birth or a few hours past it.
Well put – when you get into the details, the public’s views on abortion tend to be a lot more nuanced than either side which cherry picks opinion polls would like to admit. Which is one reason why this belongs with the state legislatures who can make those kinds of distinctions and if they get it wrong, the people who have to live under those rules can vote for new people who promise to change them.
Turn that into an amendment then. It would be easy right?
Of course you know it would have a snowballs chance in hell. But its so POPULAR though!
Get real
If the US were a functioning democracy, there are a number of popular possible constitutional amendments that would get passed. But the US hasn't been a functioning democracy in decades, assuming it ever has been. Money talks, and nobody has more money than religious cults.
You seem to define "functioning democracy" in terms of you getting your way, rather than the mechanics of voting.
While also conveniently dismissing the reality that the US, nationally speaking, isn’t a democracy at all, and was designed explicitly to reject the excesses of democratic rule.
Nationally speaking, we are a republic. An apparently functioning one. If it weren’t, there wouldn’t be the current race by blue states to do everything possible to cater to women in red states on getting an abortion there.
Here's where I'm coming from: why would you even want to make a violent, barbaric act legal? There are just so many other life-affirming responses that are possible, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever one has to kill a living being by "choice". This is not ancient Rome. We don't let other people just up and kill other people because they merely believe all on their own that it's the right thing to do.
At this point, the actual laws for and against abortion have some effect, but it's a pretty light restraint. What matters are people's thoughts and beliefs, the law is well downstream of that. If we are going to become a life-affirming culture, we need to start with the culture.
Now do health insurance.
Same result. Socialism is deadly. Capitalism facilitates prosperity and well-being (though not sufficient by itself).
If US public opinion reaches a similar consensus, few people would care about the details of abortion jurisprudence, so long as it doesn't bar the policies favored by that consensus. Alternatively, legal elites could reach a consensus on constitutional methodology that clearly resolves the abortion issue one way or the other.
That's why it is such a mistake to use the word rights when negotiating a compromise. The very word right implies all or none.
The "so popular" abortion is a lib pollsters myth. And we know how super accurate those lib pollsters are.
If you ask by trimester whether folks support abortion post first trimester it becomes unpopular.
Actually that is in line with the rest of the world. MS law is in line with the rest of the world.
So legalise abortion in the first trimester only. You're right, that would make sense as a compromise. But the religious nuts who run big chunks of the country would never go for it, and that's why it's not going to happen.
The "nuts" are voted in by their constituents. I consider Maxine Waters an absolute nutcase. But here constituents disagree.
We democratically vote for our representatives and we're divided into 50 states . CA and AL are not the same. The people who live in these places don't want to be the same.
There would have never been a USA if NY insisted on ruling over GA.
I suspect there will be a fair number of states where something like that will happen. Several other states were seeking to imitate Mississippi’s approach already, rather than a flat-out ban from conception. Perhaps that will eventually be the majority of states (if Dobbs holds over the long term).
That is, the 15-week limit at issue in Dobbs, not the older pre-Roe general-ban law which I understand Mississipi has announced it will be enforcing following Dobbs.
But what if different states actually come to a local consensus on laws? Wouldn't that reduce the FEDERAL legal pressures / issues? Even if we have court splits, the SCOTUS doesn't HAVE to have a national policy (let the 9th be 9th, the 5th be the 5th, and so on), do it?
This issue was, I suspect, the reason Chief Justice Roberts didn’t want everything changed completely in one go. Behind the legal argument of changing the law only to the extent necessary to decide the case, there is the issue that sea-change seasaws turns the institution from a court of law into an appointed legislature. So Roberts counseled that the court should do only what it could sustain through changes of administration and appointments of new justices.
I think the court would be advised to put this issue behind it and not to enter the maelstrom again. But there is surely no guarantee that Democratic appointees will abide by that.
Indeed, Roberts’ argument and the majority’s approach leaves open the possibility of a future court ruling that most of the Dobbs opinion was dicta and the only thing the court actually properly decided was what it properly had before it, that a 15 week limit was constitutional.
One of the current conservative majority being replaced in a Democratic administration is certainly a plausible scenario. I doubt a single additional Democratic appointee could persuade Chief Justice Roberts to go along with a 5-4 opinion ressurrecting his concurrence as the basis for a new majority. I suspect Roberts actually wanted to reverse Roe, and I don’t think his Dobbs opinion reflected his final wiew of how things should ultimately be. He just wanted to change the law in an orderly, gradual manner, over time. I also suspect he would consider the consequences of switching back again terrifying so far as the court’s status as an institution is concerned.
But I coud be wrong about that. The possibility of Roberts joining an additional Democratic appointee to get a 5-4 majority for the Roberts concurrence, justified by saying saying everything else in the majority opinion is just dicta, remains open.
I don't know whether you're right or wrong, but I want to compliment you on the tone of your comment.
It's clear, unbiased, polite, well reasoned....
Thank you. I needed that after scrolling through this comments section.
The other side doesn't talk, they simply implement it. Such as Obama shooting down protections of infants born alive and New York allowing end runs around the law to kill full term babies.
> All that needed to happen is all 50 Dems
They don't have this (Manchin and Sinema are against diluting the filibuster), meaning they aren't in a position to do this, and haven't been in a position to do this at any time since Biden became POTUS.
Is it possible that there are currently other Democrat senators who oppose diluting the filibuster in all circumstances? No. There was a vote on creating an exception to the filibuster for voting rights and all Dem senators except Manchin and Sinema supported creating that exception.
Is it possible that there are other Democrat senators who oppose diluting the filibuster in order to expand the court? We don't yet know, but it wouldn't surprise me if we saw the same result amongst the Democratic caucus to such a question as to the proposed exception for voting rights - 48 Dem senators in favour, 2 against.
And while the Dems aren't currently in a position to dilute the filibuster, its appears they are growing more strident about the belief that they need to do so in the name of democracy. Given the growing calls on the Democratic side of politics to make support for overturning the filibuster a key pledge for getting the Democratic nomination for a senate seat, its not an unreasonable stretch to assume that as soon as the Democrats get a normative majority of, say, 54 seats in the Senate, they will abolish it outright.
So you're saying that Democrats will pack the court as soon as Democrats who want to pack the court control the presidency and both houses of congress?
I guess that's probably true, although I'm not sure it's terribly insightful.
You're an idiot.
The insight comes from recognizing that virtually every Democrat in Congress favors this; It has not happened yet only because of the tie in the Senate. If they'd had 54 votes instead of 50 and a VP to break ties, they'd have already packed the Court, because they'd have had the margin to proceed without the votes of the two hold-outs.
It seems unlikely that this November will see the Democrats win a solid majority in the Senate. So the earliest this risk materializes is 2025.
The fact that you chose to describe the right to life as "abstract" is a pretty strong tell. I'm not so certain you are all that certain about your position. You wouldn't feel the need to compare a human baby to a kitten if you were truly convinced.
There's probably hope for you yet, then. It's never too late to right a wrong. Even if it takes another 49 years.
We already got the 2nd amendment via the legislative process, over 200 years ago, much as you wish we hadn't.
How does Bruen object to deciding abortion via legislative processes?
Bruen removed the court from the conversation and explicitly subjects abortion to legislative processes.
The 2nd Amendment is an Enumerated Right, and anyone with even a high school level of English Grammar can understand what it says.
You FAIL to note that my post claimed that seven of the nine justices were not high quality. Not sure if you are old enough to remember Nixon replying to the Carswell bashing by saying the SC needed more average justices.
My point was that we need "high-quality" justices not justices that check sex, race, or woke qualifications. Don't pretend the black woman in waiting was the best choice. Even dyed in the wool libs admitted there were better qualified libs and she was nominated only because she was a black woman.
Minor correction: That wasn't Nixon, that was Nebraska's Senatorial Yogi Berra, Roman Hruska.
(Hruska also voted for Thurgood Marshall, so he was not averse to supporting excellence, as well as mediocrity.)