The Volokh Conspiracy
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Guns and Judicial Protection of Constitutional Rights that Put Lives at Risk
Justice Breyer and others argue that gun regulations deserve special judicial deference because Second Amendment rights create risks to life. But the same is true of many other constitutional rights.

In his dissent to today's Supreme Court Second Amendment ruling in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen, Justice Stephen Breyer reiterates his longstanding argument that gun regulations deserve special deference from courts because guns endanger human life. He argues that the Court's decisions is wrong because it "severely burdens" States' efforts to "address some of the dangers of gun violence…. by passing laws that limit, in various ways, who may purchase, carry, or use firearms of different kinds." It isn't just that Breyer believes courts must take these "dangers" into account. He contends they justify near-total judicial deference in gun rights cases - deference far-reaching enough to uphold the New York law at issue in this case, which presumptively bans carrying of guns outside the home by nearly all law-abiding citizens, thereby effectively gutting the "bear" part of the right to "keep and bear arms."
In his dissent in the Court's last major gun rights ruling, McDonald v. City of Chicago (2010), Breyer argued that these dangers justified refusing to "incorporate" the Second Amendment against state governments at all, even though nearly all other parts of the Bill of Rights have been applied against state governments.
My 2010 critique of Breyer's McDonald dissent is also applicable to his dissent today, and to similar arguments made by others. The Second Amendment is far from the only constitutional right that poses threats to human life, and may not even pose the greatest such threat. If potential threats to life justify near-total judicial deference, we would soon have few constitutional rights left:
In his dissent in McDonald,… Justice Breyer argues that gun rights deserve little or no judicial protection at least in part because they put lives at risk:
"Unlike other forms of substantive liberty, the carrying of arms for that purpose [self-defense] often puts others' lives at risk…. And the use of arms for private self-defense does not warrant federal constitutional protection from state regulation."
This argument ignores social science evidence suggesting that extreme gun bans like those of DC and Chicago cost at least as many innocent lives as they save. Still, gun rights probably do cause at least some deaths that might otherwise have been prevented.
In that respect, however, they are no different from numerous other constitutional rights. Justice Breyer's argument in McDonald is actually very similar to Justice Antonin Scalia's dissent in Boumediene v. Bush, where Scalia warned that giving habeas corpus rights to War on Terror detainees "will almost certainly cause more Americans to be killed." That argument didn't move Breyer, who voted with the majority to extend those rights. Similarly, the enforcement of Fourth Amendment rights and Fifth Amendment rights allows at least some violent criminals to escape punishment, which in turn leads to some number of murders that might otherwise have been prevented. Pro-lifers certainly argue that the right to abortion kills far more people and in a far more direct way than gun ownership does.
But the really big skeleton in this particular closet is freedom of speech. Political speech and organization by communists, Nazis, racists, radical Islamists, and others has led to vastly more preventable deaths than private ownership of handguns. If the Russian Provisional Government of 1917 had suppressed the Bolshevik Party…., millions of lives would have been saved. The same goes for the Weimar Republic and the Nazis. Closer to home, many black lives could potentially have been saved if the federal government had suppressed neo-Confederate and segregationist political speech in the South in the aftermath of the Civil War, thereby preventing "Redeemer" forces from regaining political power in the region and suppressing black rights.
One could argue that these other rights don't endanger lives as directly as guns do. Action, not speech or procedural rights, is what really kills people. Perhaps the life-threatening effects of procedural rights and political speech can be forestalled without restricting these rights themselves. However, one could say the same of guns. As the NRA famously puts it, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Whether we are talking about guns, speech, or other rights, there are going to be cases where, as a practical matter, it is impossible to prevent death by measures short of restricting the right itself. For example, allowing Nazi speech in the Weimar Republic may have greatly increased the risk that the Nazis would come to power, by which point it was too late too prevent them from killing large numbers of people. Similarly, once free speech by Redeemers and ex-Confederates allowed them to seize control of southern states, it was politically impossible for the federal government to protect black rights against them – at least not without much greater violence than might have sufficed to prevent the Redeemers from organizing in the first place.
In making these comparisons, I do not mean to suggest that judges should allow severe restrictions on constitutional rights any time there is a plausible argument that doing so might save lives. To the contrary, I think judges should generally avoid doing so. The trade-off between lives and constitutional rights is one better made by the framers and ratifiers of the Constitution than by judges. Moreover, there are often risks to life on both sides. For example, gun ownership for self-defense purposes often prevents violent crime and thereby saves lives. Similarly, strong enforcement of the Fourth Amendment could sometime prevent abusive police behavior that itself endangers lives.
If we allow government to set aside constitutional rights whenever they "put… others' lives at risk," we soon won't have many constitutional rights left. I also object to Breyer's and Scalia's more selective invocation of risks to life in cases involving rights for which they have little sympathy, while simultaneously ignoring very similar considerations when the right at stake is one they value more highly…
Breyer tries to limit his argument to "substantive liberty rights," which may exclude procedural rights such as those protected by the Fourth Amendment or habeas corpus. However, it's not clear why life-threatening procedural rights should be any more vigorously enforced than similarly risky substantive rights. After all, the purpose of most of the procedural rights is to provide indirect protection for "substantive liberty." Moreover,…. freedom of speech is surely a "substantive liberty right," and it sometimes poses serious dangers to life as well.
Since I wrote the above, we have seen more examples of how other constitutional rights can create risks to human life. For example, anti-vaxxer speech might lead people to forego vaccinations that would save their lives. Bogus claims that the 2020 election was "stolen" from Donald Trump pretty obviously inspired the violence of January 6, 2021. Left-wing rhetorical excesses in response to the death of George Floyd might have helped inspire the riots of the summer of 2020. And this list could easily be extended.
Examples like the above have led some (wrongly, in my view) to call for government-imposed restrictions on political speech that spreads various types of "misinformation." But, even so, few advocate the kind of near-total deference to government speech regulations that Breyer defends in the case of guns. At the very least, government would have to meet a high burden of proof to show that the speech in question really is "misinformation," and really will have harmful effects that can only be prevented by censorship.
One can argue that guns inherently threaten life, while only a small percentage of exercises of free speech rights or criminal procedure rights do the same. But it is equally true that only a small percentage of gun owners ever use them to commit crimes. In all these situations, the case for regulation rests on the theory that we must restrict a wide range of people in order to forestall the relatively small minority who cause great harm.
Like most other constitutional rights, Second Amendment rights are not completely unlimited, and threats to public safety can potentially be weighed in considering whether particular regulation should be upheld. Justice Clarence Thomas's majority opinion notes that a wide range of gun regulations are permissible under its reasoning, particularly "shall-issue regimes" - currently in force in 43 states "which often require applicants to undergo a background check or pass a firearms safety course, [and] are designed to ensure only that those bearing arms in the jurisdiction are, in fact, 'law-abiding, responsible citizens.'" This point is emphasized even more forcefully in Justice Kavanaugh's concurring opinion, joined by Chief Justice Roberts. Their concurrence is likely to be influential, because they are the key swing voters on this issue.
Thomas's opinion also holds that gun regulations are constitutional if they are "consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation." What counts as consistency with "historical tradition" is far from entirely clear. But among the factors noted by Thomas are whether the weapons in question are "dangerous and unusual" and whether they are being wielded in ways that create "terror." Still, the government will have to actually prove that the weapons in question really are "dangerous and unusual" or that the defendant has wielded his or her gun in a way that terrorizes. Mere assertion and conjecture should not be enough.
There is plenty of room for debate over whether Thomas' reasoning draws the line between constitutional and unconstitutional regulation in the right place. Here, I just want to make the more limited point that the mere fact that a constitutional right potentially threatens lives doesn't justify near-total judicial deference of the kind advocated by Breyer and others. If taken seriously, this theory would gut a wide range of constitutional rights.
Even if you reject Breyer's argument about threats to life, one can still argue for broad judicial deference on gun rights on the ground that the Second Amendment isn't an individual right at all, but merely a "collective right" of states to organize militias. Alternatively, you can argue that many types of guns simply are not the kind of "arms" protected by the Amendment. Whatever the merits of such arguments, they don't threaten to undermine a vast range of other constitutional rights. Breyer's theory, by contrast, does.
UPDATE: I have made a few additions to this post, including linking co-blogger Eugene Volokh's post summarizing the many types of gun regulations today's majority opinion permits.
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Guns save lives.
When the Commies in the woke government come for the guns, they will feel free to kill patriots and freedom loving people by the millions. To the extent they are deterred, 400 millions guns in the possession of 65 million people will save lives. The purpose will be to enrich the 1% elite of the population. The 99% will be plunged into abject poverty as they are in China, Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea. The certainty of that is 100%.
Then blacks are on their own, as far as their personal safety. Each law abiding one needs to conceal carry and blast the violent thug attackin'. The police ain't coming for 3 hours. When they do, they will take down a report and file it. They are out of the arrest business. they have been fully pussified by the pro-criminal scumbag lawyer profession. Blacks were 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crime. That has gone down to twice as likely since the Obama administration and the scumbag DOJ destroyed the methodology of the Crime Victimization Survey to cover up black crime. Until the Democrat administration, victims reported 20000 white women were being raped by blacks, while no black women were being raped by whites. Of course, the number of rapes of black women by black men was likely 10 times more. Black women need to conceal carry to defend themselves.
Socialists murdered 100M people last century; by Breyer's logic, any writings encouraging socialism are far too dangerous to leave unfettered.
Here we go again.
Un-prosecuted crime puts lives at risk.
It's all a question of whose lives you care about.
https://reason.com/volokh/2022/06/23/courts-right-to-bear-arms-decision/?comments=true#comment-9557884
Guns don't kill people. Gunshot wounds kill people.
The Court today lacks the courage to uphold a (Conservative!) constitutional right when it is widely violated, but at least has enough courage to go after outlier violations. So, 44 states having shall issue polices gave them the bravery to tell the stragglers to shape up. But the Court is comfortable with requiring a license, because only 25 states do not.
It is thus up to us to bring in enough of the remaining 25 into the "constitutional carry" camp that the Court does not shrink from abolishing the licensing requirement, too.
It should. The idea of requiring a license to exercise a constitutional right is fundamentally self-contradictory.
Was wondering what you think the proper definition of "infringe" is in regard to the 2nd Amendment.
I believe that the 2nd should be treated as the 1st is: Prior restraint should be VERY strongly disfavored, with regulation of the exercise almost exclusively limited to punishing misbehavior after the fact.
The only exceptions should be generally applicable laws applying to matters such as product safety; I wouldn't assume the 2nd amendment prohibits laws requiring that guns not blow up in your hand, for instance.
Sticks and stones may hurt my bones but guns will never hurt me! Jesus gave us guns!
I'm pretty sure Jesus was more into swords, though he might possibly have flung a bullet or two in his day.
He was both for and against swords, depending on the circumstances.
But He did give deference to the government.
While in Jesus' time melee weapons were common there were also projectile weapons in general use. Thrown spears, bows and arrows, not to mention slings that David famously used to down Goliath.
"Justice Stephen Breyer reiterates his longstanding argument that gun regulations deserve special deference from courts because guns endanger human life. He argues that the Court's decisions is wrong because it "severely burdens" States' efforts to "address some of the dangers of gun violence…. by passing laws that limit, in various ways, who may purchase, carry, or use firearms of different kinds." "
Breyer's concerns are valid - yet most if not all the regulations he believes should be valid have had and will have virtually zero effect on the rate of homicides.
Breyer concerns are valid, I wish he would articulate them when the arguments happen to be against a right he likes.
Abortion hurts no one!!
Well its even worse than that, right? States would pass safety regulations on abortion clinics, then Breyer would reserve for himself the right to decide how "legitimate" those regulations are.
Of course, when California passes a bunch of onerous regulations on crisis pregnancy centers, its a completely different story apparently!
Valid, sure, but those are policy concerns, not legal arguments. The dissent in this case appears to be "guns are icky" without any kind of legal reasoning attached. The majority of the court decided correctly based on the law. If a majority of the people want the law to be different, there's a process to change it.
Bogus claims that the 2020 election was "stolen" from Donald Trump pretty obviously inspired the violence of January 6, 2021. Left-wing rhetorical excesses in response to the death of George Floyd might have helped inspire the riots of the summer of 2020.
"Might have helped"? Is there a reason for the tentativeness other than fear of provoking a student cancel campaign?
except there was very little violence on Jan 6 2021
....except by the police.
Aside from the riot, the dozens of injured police officers, and the wanton destruction of property.
Very little.
ABC News said it was a peaceful demonstration that intensified.
The "wanton destruction of property"?
Really?
What was that? How does it compare to an Antifa Portland Federal Courthouse "protest"?
What parts of the US Capitol were set on fire that day?
What do you think, Bevis?
I think the defenders of 1/6 are full of it. Obviously there was destruction that day. Greg J doesn’t seem to understand that both Antifa and the Trump rioters can do violence.
As long as team members defend violence on their side this will not stop. These violent assholes need to be shunned by everybody.
"Destruction"?
Yeah, I'd call the murder of an unarmed female Veteran "Destruction"
That's what you get when you're at the head of a violent demo breaking into a part of a building.
Funny how cops can plead "I was in fear for my life" in roughly 100% of all shootings of unarmed black men and the right will generally not doubt it and weep no tears - "he should have complied", etc. - but Babbitt? Those tears done flow.
She got what she deserved. Actions have consequences.
No, she didn’t deserve what she got. Her poor decisions contributed to the situation and increased her risk, but she didn’t deserve the severity of the outcome.
What you said could also be applied to George Floyd. I’m sure there are people who think it, and if any of them said that to me I’d respond the same way about them. His actions increased his risk but he didn’t deserve the severity of the outcome.
And for anyone who wants to act like I’m saying something that I’m not, no I’m not saying that they’re precisely the same. The similarity is both individuals started the cascade of events that led to their deaths by committing an illegal act, but neither deserved to be killed.
It could only be applied to Floyd's death in the same manner if his death was deemed a lawful use of force.
Babbitt attempted to climb through the broken window of a barricaded doorway, with security personnel already in defensive positions with guns drawn and ready.
Sometimes stupidity takes care of itself.
Why do you ignore the fact that armed security personnel stood by and made no attempt to restrain Babbitt from approaching the window or used non lethal force (like grabbing onto her feet or legs to prevent her from climbing through the window. Was it because those armed security personnel had their weapons in the high ready position because they did not view her as a real threat. Not to mention the guy who shot her could have easily used non lethal force to stop her. Something like pepper spray, stun gun, or even physical restraint would have rendered her half in and half out of the window which would have not only stopped her from proceeding but also blocked the path of others trying to follow her.
It is one thing for a LEO to shoot a huge male (black or white) charging at him and something completely different to shoot a person (male or female) slowly wriggling through a smashed window.
Is anyone defending J6 violence? I haven't heard it.
After J6 did we get relentless quoting of MLK "riots are the voice of the unheard" or that the violence was justified based on the the cause?
Haven't seen it. But you know what violence was justified in that manner in regards to BLM/ANTIFA.
And even then folks can have a right to their wrong opinion but justice shall be equal right? I mean you can't punish someone for their viewpoint. Smashing a window and assault doesn't matter whether you're protesting Floyd's death or the election results right?
It's not equal. J6 defendants are being treated entirely different than BLM/ANTIFA.
THAT IS THE ISSUE!
"Justice Stephen Breyer reiterates his longstanding argument that gun regulations deserve special deference from courts because guns endanger human life."
How has the rule of law disappeared from the minds of people like Breyer? The law may have unintended consequences. The law may be downright evil. But darn it, the job of the courts are to faithfully interpret the laws no matter the consequences.
Changing the laws, or even changing the Constitution are the jobs of Congress and the people. Not the courts.
The rule of law never entered Breyer's mind. He has always set his face against any idea that a judge could be bound by the law. The laws are merely suggestions to help spark the judicial imagination.
He's not a rule of law guy. He's a rule of judges guy.
“Justice Stephen Breyer reiterates his longstanding argument that laws cutting funds for public defenders cases deserve special deference because because effective counsel leads to the guilty avoiding punishment and being released to kill again.”
You could write one of these about any of the bill of rights. The 2A exists. Do it right. Either abide by it or repeal it.
If the Russian Provisional Government of 1917 had suppressed the Bolshevik Party…..millions of lives would have been saved. The same goes for the Weimar Republic and the Nazis.
In fact the Nazi Party was banned for a little over a year after the Beer Hall Putsch.
Didn't you get the memo? It was the Beer Hall Peaceful Demonstration and Hitler was a political prisoner.
And yet the conservatives recently gutted Boumediene, no?
I just ... this entire opinion read like political grandstanding. Few legal arguments we made. The only really legal aspect was in Barretts concurrence in which she said there is no answer to a rather important question.
If you are creating a constitutional ruling that is supposed to be permanent and has all the force of precedent, then I dont understand why the context matters? Events change! Half the opinion was a stupid back and forth about this.
Breyer articulates these arguments only when he doesn't like the right in question. Otherwise the practical issues do not matter. When the shoe is in the other foot it is the other way around. And Breyer is one of the better ones! The lack of consistency and sheer hypocrisy is rather tiring. Like judges don't have the resources to do their jobs, so they must default to the legislature? Seriously? (tbf he is somewhat consistent on this, but not very).
And I am an originialist, but I was under the impression that originalism does not mean legislatures can only do the laws that existed at the founding. That seems like a dumb system. I dont know if I can maintain this view if that's how it's gonna be.
I wish I could be less cynical but it seems like this is all a very dumb intellectual exercise while real people are getting hurt.
Of course it's a dumb exercise. Most of the members of the Court are cowards, they lack the integrity to just go where the law leads them. So they CAN'T set out coherent principles, that would make more changes than they have the guts to impose at once.
They have to be vague enough about it to allow themselves room to tackle this piecemeal, and duck issues that they find particularly troublesome.
And I am an originialist, but I was under the impression that originalism does not mean legislatures can only do the laws that existed at the founding. That seems like a dumb system.
That's because it IS a dumb system, and an utterly stupid way to describe originalism.
Let me help you:
1: Does the US Constitution ban the Federal / State governments from doing something ("the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed")? Well, then, if it was understood back then that those words meant "the government can't do X", then the government still can't do X.
2: Was it common for States to pass laws banning Y at the time of the Founding of the US? Was it still common when the 14th Amendment was passed? Well, then, you can not reasonable claim that the 14th Amendment prohibits States now from banning Y.
3: Can States do Z? Well, if it's not explicitly mentioned in the US Constitution, the default answer is "yes". Or, rather "you kids figure it out for yourselves. It's not a Federal issue".
Any other questions?
Yeah. What are "arms"?
"Similarly, the enforcement of Fourth Amendment rights and Fifth Amendment rights allows at least some violent criminals to escape punishment, which in turn leads to some number of murders that might otherwise have been prevented."
Yeah, the leftist view of the Constitution sure is something.
You can't have a gun to defend yourself, but when a criminal uses their illegal gun to kill you, then he gets a free lawyer and dozens of procedural safeguards to maximize the chances he gets away with it.
Sounds like a great place to live, glad law abiding citizens won a decision for once.
To slightly paraphrase my comment above, it's all a question of whose rights you care about.
In his dissent in the Court's last major gun rights ruling, McDonald v. City of Chicago (2010), Breyer argued that these dangers justified refusing to "incorporate" the Second Amendment against state governments at all, even though nearly all other parts of the Bill of Rights have been applied against state governments.
Just out of interest, what's the argument that the Second Amendment ever needed to be incorporated against the States via the Due Process Clause ? Unlike the First, the text is not limited to a command to Congress.
Well, all rights need to be incorporated right? Fourth, fifth, amendments, and so on. It was widely understood the states were not subject to the bill of rights, then it was widely understood that the 14th amendment made them. It is a rather complex history, but it is addressed in the opinion.
The argument is that it was the federal government's constitution, the states had their own constitutions, they actually existed prior to the Constitution, or even the Articles of Confederation.
So it is only natural that the text of the Constitution is only taken as applying to the states where it explicitly directs that it does.
Bingo. But go a step further—the 2A was specifically drafted in order to protect the RKBA for citizens in DC and federal territories. So it is a great irony that some states weren’t “free states”…and apparently neither were DC or federal territories according to Thomas’ opinion. Such a head scratcher. 😉
My 2010 critique of Breyer's McDonald dissent is also applicable to his dissent today,
Isn't it amazing how the "pro-stare decisis" "Justices" (at least when it comes to Roe / Casey) have absolutely no respect for stare decisis when it's something THEY disagree with?
Breyer lost on Heller and McDonald. So a "proper respect for stare decisis" would cause him to accept those ruling, and drop all the arguments he made in dissent.
We're all shocked, shocked, that he didn't do that, right?
"My 2010 critique of Breyer's McDonald dissent is also applicable to his dissent today, and to similar arguments made by others. The Second Amendment is far from the only constitutional right that poses threats to human life, "
Like maybe abortion which poses a far greater threat to human life!
He mentioned abortion
I was taught in law school that "stare decisis" is an important tenet of American law -- that once an issue is definitively decided by the courts, it is not open to further dispute except in extraordinary circumstances. Heller was decided almost 15 years ago. "Serious" Justices and commenters should not be heard to claim that Heller is "not good law".
"[T]he government must affirmatively prove that its firearms regulation is part of the historical tradition that delimits the outer bounds of the right to keep and bear arms." NYSRPA v. Bruen.
My lawsuit challenging California’s bans on carrying loaded and unloaded rifles, shotguns, and handguns in public has already been argued before the 9th circuit. It is being held pending the disposition of the Young v. Hawaii handgun Open Carry cert petition (Mr. Young abandoned his concealed carry claim before the 9th circuit en banc panel).
Justice Thomas created a very high bar for gun laws. The State of California conceded in 2015 that we have a right to openly carry firearms, specifically handguns, beyond the curtilage of our home. The State could not point to any American law in effect in 1791 that prohibited the Open Carry of long guns or handguns or any subsequent laws within Justice Thomas’ historical timeframe in support of California’s Open Carry bans. As Judge Berzon, the presiding judge in my case, correctly pointed out during the oral argument in my appeal, California did not ban loaded Open Carry until the 1960s.
I expect an opinion in my appeal fairly soon.
https://californiaopencarry.com/status-of-my-federal-open-carry-lawsuit/
Headline at Reuters (and similar headlines in other places)
"Horror on Oslo Pride day as gunman goes on deadly rampage at gay bar"
Quote on Norwegian gun laws:
"Permits and requirements
Norway has some of the strictest gun control laws around today. It is only possible to obtain permission to own a weapon by having officially documented a use for the gun with the local police and taken extensive training relevant to the intended use of the weapon"
Link to article:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/two-dead-several-wounded-norway-nightclub-shooting-police-say-2022-06-25/
So- how do you keep this from happening when you already have the laws in effect to keep it from happening? Not to mention the laws against murder and terrorism to begin with.
Gun control laws restrict rights of the innocent while doing nothing to stop those who break the law.
I think they need to work on the wholesale disenfranchisement of from the 2nd Amendment for felons that did not commit a violent felony.
There are so many felonies out there that do not remotely involve violence, yet they are swept up by the same net as felons who committed murders or robberies or rape.
White collar crimes such as fraud and tax crimes, or bribery, perjury, improper filling of govt forms, prostitution, gambling, drug crimes --- the list goes on.
Such felonies have nothing to do with firearms, or prior misuse, and after a person serves their sentence, 2nd Amendment rights should be restored.