The Volokh Conspiracy
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May Beauty Pageants Limit Themselves to "Natural Born Women"?
Or for that matter to women, to unmarried women, or to women based on age, race, national origin, religion, citizenship (other-"natural-born" or otherwise), and the like?
My UCLA Amicus Brief Clinic students and I just filed a brief on this subject on behalf of the Libertarian Law Council and the Institute for Free Speech in Green v. Miss United States of America, LLC. Here's our Summary of Argument:
Beauty pageants, true to their name, are "theatrical production[s]"[1] that aim to convey a particular viewpoint about beauty, femininity, or identity. In this, they are like many other theatrical productions: Hamilton uses race-based casting to convey a particular artistic message about American Revolutionary ideals; a traditionalist Othello might cast a white Desdemona and a black Othello to express its view of historical authenticity; the Miss America pageant limits itself to unmarried 17-to-25-year-old female U.S. citizens as a means of conveying its message; cross-dressing pageants may send a message of their own by limiting participants to men dressed as women rather than women dressed as women; likewise, Miss USOA is trying to send a message—controversial as it may be—about what it understands to be true femininity. 2-ER-225 ("the [Miss USOA] pageant organizers wished to convey some message about the meaning of gender and femininity and … the specific implication that the pageant organizers did not believe transgender women qualified as female"). The First Amendment protects all these artistic decisions and the viewpoints they embody.
Oregon's Public Accommodation Act, if read to cover pageants, thus violates Miss USOA's First Amendment rights—both "speech and expressive-association rights," which "are closely linked." Christian Legal Soc'y v. Martinez, 561 U.S. 661, 680 (2010). The forced inclusion of Anita Green, who is transgender, would keep Miss USOA from being able to effectively convey its beliefs that "natural born" women are the only true women. And this severe intrusion into Miss USOA's First Amendment rights cannot be justified by Oregon's interest in stopping gender identity discrimination in places of public accommodations. See e.g., Boy Scouts of America v. Dale, 530 U.S. 640, 659 (2000); Hurley v. Irish-Am. Gay, Lesbian & Bisexual Grp. of Boston, 515 U.S. 557, 578 (1995).
And here's the Argument (what follows is a direct quote from our brief):
[I.] Forcing Miss USOA to accept Green as a contestant would substantially burden Miss USOA's First Amendment rights
[A.] Groups have a First Amendment right to express themselves through choosing performers who participate in their speech
Speakers often rely on their ability to select certain performers to shape a specific message or vision they wish to convey. For example, Hamilton intentionally casts nonwhites for traditionally white roles, because that is a critical aspect of the show's creative vision and message about American Revolutionary ideals.[2] Though it may well be that "[a] music teacher has no … speech right to discriminate when soliciting the general public to purchase group lessons," LAMBDA Amicus Br. at 22, musical producers are entitled to select who will have singing roles in their productions.
Conversely, producers of a traditional production of Othello would choose a white lead actress and a black lead actor to achieve their artistic goal of faithfully representing Shakespeare's original work. Producers of other productions might want to depart more from the Shakespearean mold, by changing the races of the characters or the way they dress, or hew more closely to it, by insisting on Elizabethan-era pronunciation.[3] (Even "authenticity" is not self-defining.) There is little doubt that such producers would have the First Amendment right to make all these choices.
Beauty pageants are likewise a protected form of theatrical expression. Thus, for instance, Norma Kristie, Inc. v. City of Oklahoma City, 572 F. Supp. 88, 91 (W.D. Okla. 1983), held that the "Miss Gay America Pageant"—a slightly misleading title for a cross-dressing pageant, in which men (whether or not gay) competed in female impersonation, id. at 89—was protected by the First Amendment. Any supposed "inequality in aesthetic value between [a] pageant and a musical or play," the court held, "is a distinction without a difference," id. at 91: The ostensible "degree of 'art'" does not change the level of protection afforded by the First Amendment. Id.
Thus, a beauty pageant's eligibility criteria are just as constitutionally protected as the casting decisions in Hamilton or Othello. These criteria convey pageant organizers' viewpoints about beauty, femininity, and identity (whether or not they are fully shared by all the contestants or by all the organizers' employees). And indeed, many such pageants use criteria that limit participants to a particular group, even when the criteria may violate many jurisdictions' antidiscrimination statutes:
- Likely the most famous pageant, Miss America, limits itself to (1) unmarried (2) women (3) age 17 to 25 (4) who are U.S. citizens,[4] even though many states ban discrimination based on marital status, sex, age, and citizenship.[5] The choice, for instance, to exclude married women conveys a certain message about the value of a particular kind of feminine desirability. The choice to focus on 17-to-25-year-olds conveys a related message. The choice to limit candidates to U.S. citizens conveys a message about the propriety of seeking the most beautiful American, and not the most beautiful Canadian or Mexican.
- Miss Asian American limits contestants to those who share at least one-fourth Asian ancestry (as it happens, including not just East Asia but also South Asia, Central Asia, the Asian Middle East—including Israel—and Georgia and Azerbaijan in the Caucasus but not Armenia).[6] This is how the pageant organizers choose to "celebrat[e] Asian culture, beauty, and intelligence"[7] and not the culture, beauty, and intelligence of other ethnic groups.[8]
- Miss Black America does not appear to formally limit contestants by race, but presumably the judging process will, true to the pageant's name, select someone who the judges view as representative of Black America. The pageant does limit itself to people "born … Female with Female Anatomy."[9]
- Miss Gay America, a pageant for "female impersonators," explicitly excludes those who have undergone any feminizing hormone treatment or plastic surgery,[10] thus defining what qualifies as female impersonation.
- Any beauty pageant, by definition, discriminates based on beauty, offering the more beautiful real prizes and giving the less (at most) consolation prizes. If done in D.C., that would violate the District's prohibition on discrimination based on "personal appearance."[11]
And these are just a few examples of how pageants define participant eligibility as a means of crafting the pageant's message about who counts as a beautiful, talented representative of particular identity groups. The Hurley Court noted that "'[p]arades are public dramas of social relations, and in them performers define who can be a social actor and what subjects and ideas are available for communication and consideration.'" 515 U.S. at 568. Beauty pageants are even more public dramas of social relations—connected, as are parades, to deeper political debates about identity and authenticity—and in them the organizers define who counts as beautifully feminine[12] and worthy of representing their sex and a particular social group.
[B.] Producers of performing arts works, including pageants, have a right to choose whom to include
The law has long recognized that the First Amendment right to speak through performing arts includes the First Amendment right to choose the performers. For instance, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 allows employees to be selected based on sex when sex "is a bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise," 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-2(e), and the EEOC regulations recognize that,
Where it is necessary for the purpose of authenticity or genuineness, the Commission will consider sex to be a bona fide occupational qualification, e.g., an actor or actress.
29 C.F.R. § 1604.2(a)(2).
The statutory definition of bona fide occupational qualification expressly excludes race,[13] but producers and directors are nonetheless protected by the First Amendment in their race-based casting, as is made clear by Claybrooks v. ABC, Inc., 898 F. Supp. 2d 986 (M.D. Tenn. 2012), the one case on the subject. The Claybrooks plaintiffs were two black men who unsuccessfully applied to be on ABC's television show The Bachelor. Id. at 989. Plaintiffs alleged that they were rejected because of their race. Id. at 990. The court concluded that, even if ABC did discriminate based on race (which ABC had denied, id. at 996), it had a right to do so:
[C]asting decisions are a necessary component of any entertainment show's creative content. The producers of a television program, a movie, or a play could not effectuate their creative vision, as embodied in the end product marketed to the public, without signing cast members …. [R]egulating the casting process necessarily regulates the end product. In this respect, casting and the resulting work of entertainment are inseparable and must both be protected to ensure that the producers' freedom of speech is not abridged.
Id. at 999–1000. If it were otherwise, then
the content of any television show that does not have a sufficiently diverse cast would be or would have been subject to court scrutiny, such as The Jersey Shore (all white cast members), The Shahs of Beverly Hills (a show about Persian-Americans living in Los Angeles), The Cosby Show (a show with an African-American cast), and The Steve Harvey Show (a show with an African-American lead actor and supporting cast).
Id. at 998.
Likewise, in Apilado v. North Am. Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance, the court held that the North Am. Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance, which had rules limiting the number of heterosexual participants, was protected by the First Amendment against a claim brought under Washington's Law Against Discrimination. 792 F. Supp. 2d 1151, 1163 (W.D. Wash. 2011). The court noted that, through these limitations, the Alliance was not just organizing sporting events, but was seeking to convey a message "promot[ing] an athletic, competitive, sportsmanlike gay identity, with a unique set of values." Id. And because "the forced inclusion of straight athletes would distract from and diminish those efforts" to promote that message, the rules designed to limit the number of such unwanted players were protected by the First Amendment. Id.
Nor did it matter that some might view that the Alliance's mission statement of "promot[ing] amateur competition 'for all persons regardless of age, sexual orientation or preference, with special emphasis on the participation of members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) community,'" id. at 1159, as inconsistent with such sexual orientation discrimination. "[A]s the Supreme Court has stated, 'it is not the role of the courts to reject a group's expressed values because they disagree with those values or find them internally inconsistent.'" Id. at 1162 (quoting Dale, 530 U.S. at 650).
Both Claybrooks and Apilado also illustrate that an organization may promote its message through competitive performance and not just through scripted works. Indeed, many popular shows such as American Idol, The Voice, and America's Next Top Model—which restrict contestants by age, gender, or both[14]—involve competitions; yet all are protected by the First Amendment.
Claybrooks and Apilado naturally flow from Hurley and Dale, which recognized that antidiscrimination laws must yield to the First Amendment when substantial free speech interests are present. Hurley, 515 U.S. at 578; Dale, 530 U.S. at 659. Parade organizers have a First Amendment right to control the content of their own parades by choosing "expressive units of the parade from potential participants" based on which "contingent's expression in the [organizer's] eyes comports with what merits celebration on that day." Hurley, 515 U.S. at 574. Likewise, Miss USOA, Miss Asian America, Miss Black America, and Miss Gay America all have the right to select participants based on their judgment about what features of a person's identity "merit[] celebration."
Even when the unwanted members do not necessarily seek to overtly express an unwanted or contrary message, as was the case in Hurley, the mere "presence of [a] person affects in a significant way the group's ability to advocate public or private viewpoints." Dale, 530 U.S. at 648. The Boy Scouts in Dale refused to let Dale continue to participate as Assistant Scoutmaster when the organization discovered that he was gay. It did not matter that Dale had no intentions to send a conflicting message; his homosexuality and his presence as an Assistant Scoutmaster—where he was expected to speak to Scouts—were enough to affect the Boy Scouts' message. "The forced inclusion of an unwanted person in a group infringes the group's freedom of expressive association." Id. Likewise, the forced inclusion of an unwanted participant in a pageant, play, or television production infringes the group's rights to expressive association and free speech.
Dale further illustrates that all organizations, whether they represent minority or majority groups, or are traditionalists or egalitarians, are entitled to express their views regardless of what that view represents. The First Amendment "protects expression and association without regard to the race, creed, or political or religious affiliation of the members of the group which invokes its shield, or to the truth, popularity, or social utility of the ideas and beliefs which are offered." NAACP v. Button, 371 U.S. 415, 444–45 (1963). Whether a speaker "happens to be engaged in activities of expression and association on behalf of the rights of" minority group members (as in NAACP v. Button) or on behalf of the rights of traditionalist organizations such as the Boy Scouts—or Miss USOA—does not affect the speaker's First Amendment rights.
[C.] Freedom of association and free speech rights are inextricably intertwined for expressive associations
The rights described above can be framed equally as free speech rights and expressive association rights, because "speech and expressive-association rights are closely linked." Christian Legal Soc'y v. Martinez, 561 U.S. 661, 680 (2010). (Both speech and expressive association rights are also closely linked to the right of assembly, Thomas v. Collins, 323 U.S. 516, 530 (1945), including the right to assemble both for "religious or political" purposes and for other purposes, id. at 531; United Mine Workers of Am., Dist. 12 v. Illinois State Bar Ass'n, 389 U.S. 217, 223 (1967); see also Americans for Prosperity Found. v. Bonta, 141 S. Ct. 2373, 2390 (2021) (Thomas, J., concurring in part) (stressing the connection between the "right to assemble" and the "right to associate").) "Effective advocacy of both public and private points of view, particularly controversial ones, is undeniably enhanced by group association, as this Court has more than once recognized by remarking upon the close nexus between the freedoms of speech and assembly." NAACP v. Alabama ex rel. Patterson, 357 U.S. 449, 460 (1958). And this is especially clear when the group's speech necessarily involves choreographing the speech of others.
Though the district court correctly upheld Miss USOA's expressive association claim, it erred in rejecting Miss USOA's free speech claim— "when these intertwined rights [the freedoms of speech and expressive association] arise in exactly the same context," as is the case here, "it would be anomalous for a restriction on speech to survive constitutional review … only to be invalidated as an impermissible infringement of expressive association." Christian Legal Soc'y, 561 U.S. at 681. The Miss USOA contestants become parts of the organization's speech by participating in the pageant, and they (especially the winner) become spokeswomen for the organization by promoting the pageant and being identified with the pageant. 2-ER-118–19, 126. "Who speaks on [an expressive association's] behalf … colors what concept is conveyed." Christian Legal Soc'y, 561 U.S. at 680. Being forced to include certain members inevitably changes the pageant's expression. "It therefore makes little sense to treat [Miss USOA's] speech and association claims as discrete." Id.
[II.] Miss USOA is entitled to prevail under the Dale test
Dale makes clear this interconnection between free speech and freedom of association. To be protected under the First Amendment right of expressive association, a group must establish three things:
- that the group "engage[s] in some form of expression, whether it be public or private." Dale, 530 U.S. at 648;
- that "[f]orcing [the] group to accept certain members [would] impair the ability of the group to express those views" (illustrating that the right of association is derivative of the right of free speech), id.; and
- that the group's interest in expressive association is not overcome by the state's interest in eliminating discrimination, at 653.
Miss USOA satisfies this test, and the District Court was correct to so conclude on a motion for summary judgment, rather than burdening Miss USOA with the costs of going to trial. "In the First Amendment area, summary procedures are even more essential" than in other fields, in order to prevent speakers from engaging in "self-censorship." McBride v. Merrell Dow & Pharms. Inc., 717 F.2d 1460 (D.C. Cir. 1983) (quoting as "especially apposite" Washington Post Co. v. Keogh, 365 F.2d 965, 968 (D.C. Cir. 1966) (panel opinion by J. Skelly Wright, J.)).
[A.] Miss USOA engages in expression
Like the Boy Scouts in Dale, which wanted to express a message of heterosexuality as being the norm to aspire to, Dale, 530 U.S. at 650, Miss USOA wants to express a message that "natural born" women are the proper exemplar of true femininity. To be sure, Miss USOA expresses its views about femininity through a competition rather than through a purely scripted program, but that is a protected expressive choice. To borrow the Court's analysis regarding parades, "Rather like a composer, the [pageant organizers] select[] the expressive units of the [pageant] from potential participants, and though the score may not produce a particularized message, each contingent's expression in the [organizers'] eyes comports with what merits celebration on that day." Hurley, 515 U.S. at 574. That is especially so because the contestants presumably generally want to win, and as a result are likely to tailor their speech and performance to what the organizers signal that they want to see.
As in Dale, Miss USOA's view is controversial, and ties to broader political debates about who should count as truly male or female in various programs where sex is a permissible criterion. Though amici are unaware of any polls on transgender participation in beauty pageants, Americans are split, for instance, on the similar question whether "transgender athletes … should be able to play on sports teams that match their current gender identity (or) should only be allowed to play on sports teams that match their birth gender."[15]
But whether American public opinion would support Miss USOA, be split, or oppose it, Miss USOA's view is constitutionally protected. All that matters is that, like many organizations who are currently sharing their views about transgender inclusion, Miss USOA is trying to assert its own beliefs. And "an association that seeks to transmit such a system of values engages in expressive activity." Dale, 530 U.S. at 650.
The Dale Court also recognized that the Boy Scouts' expressed values were sincere even though they appeared to the district court to be antithetical to the Scouts' goals and philosophy of diverse membership and reaching "all eligible youth." Id. at 651–52. Similarly, here, "it is not the role of the courts to reject [Miss USOA]'s expressed values" because they may seem "internally inconsistent" with Miss USOA's stated purposes of female empowerment and uplifting the community. Id. at 651. Miss USOA seeks to "EMPOWER Women" and "inspire each delegate to be the best version of herself!" 2-ER-129; but it is entitled to define for itself who it views as "Women"—or as proper inspirations for women—or as counting as "herself."
Miss USOA's views are also protected even though Miss USOA does not spend much time discussing them. Dale illustrates that an organization is not required to "trumpet its views from the housetops" to earn First Amendment protection: "If the Boy Scouts wishes Scout leaders to avoid questions of sexuality and teach only by example, this fact does not negate the sincerity of its belief discussed above." 530 U.S. at 655–56. We do not demand explicit descriptions of artists' or musicians' viewpoints to accompany each work they create; the existence of an implicit message is enough. Likewise, the existence of a formally and expressly stated policy on Miss USOA's part, 2-ER-225, is surely enough as well. As the District Court put it,
Someone viewing the decision to exclude transgender women (and cisgender males) from a beauty pageant would likely understand that the pageant organizers wished to convey some message about the meaning of gender and femininity, and would probably also grasp the specific implication that the pageant organizers did not believe transgender women qualified as female. Although, given Hurley's dismissal of the "particularized message" requirement, it is probably enough just that the observer understands that a more general message about gender norms or sexual identity is being expressed.
1-ER-17.
Indeed, for better or worse, traditionalist organizations often express their traditionalist views minimalistically, simply by avoiding expression that might run counter to those views and expecting traditional norms to fill the gap. The Scouts, for instance, implemented their policy against the backdrop of a culture where heterosexuality was presumed, and homosexuality was largely ignored. It made sense for the Scouts to express themselves subtly on the subject, by relying on what they thought would be the common view of their audience, which is that "morally straight" and "clean," 530 U.S. at 650, implicitly embodies traditional morality with no need for further elaboration. (In the same respect, for instance, a Jewish beauty pageant might exclude Messianic Jews by simply relying on many Jews' implicit assumption, however controversial it might be to some, that a person cannot be both Christian and religiously Jewish.[16])
Likewise, Miss USOA is likely relying on its audience's presupposing that "Misses" are indeed what Miss USOA calls "natural born women," without the need for loud public announcements on the subject. Perhaps that is an archaic attitude; many no longer make that presupposition; and perhaps in time Miss USOA will either change its views (as the Boy Scouts eventually did[17]), or feel the need to defend them more prominently (as the Boy Scouts at first did as well, Dale, 530 U.S. at 652–53). But the First Amendment secures Miss USOA's right to express its views subtly, and in reliance on what it sees as its particular audience's existing attitudes, rather than by "trumpet[ing] its views from the housetops," just as it secured the Boy Scouts' right to do so, id. at 656.
And USOA has the right to seek to promote the view that only "natural born women" are true exemplars of femininity even if that view is not "central" (AAJ Amicus Br. 8) to their message; the word "central" appears nowhere in the Dale majority opinion (though it appears twice in the dissent, id. at 666, 675 (Stevens, J., dissenting)). Instead, as the Dale majority held, id. at 655,
[A]ssociations do not have to associate for the "purpose" of disseminating a certain message in order to be entitled to the protections of the First Amendment. An association must merely engage in expressive activity that could be impaired in order to be entitled to protection. For example, the purpose of the St. Patrick's Day parade in Hurley was not to espouse any views about sexual orientation, but we held that the parade organizers had a right to exclude certain participants nonetheless.
[B.] Miss USOA's speech is not stripped of protection because Miss USOA makes money with it
Miss USOA would also be entitled to this protection under the definition of an expressive association set out in Justice O'Connor's concurrence in Roberts v. U.S. Jaycees, 468 U.S. 609, 635–36 (1984), and cited favorably by this Court in IDK, Inc. v. Clark County, which held that escort services were not expressive associations. 836 F.2d 1185, 1195 (9th Cir. 1988). Miss USOA conspicuously differs from an escort service, which clearly engages in only non-expressive, commercial activity. Miss USOA primarily engages in expressive activity, since its main purpose is to host the pageants, which are expressive events. And Miss USOA's events are conducted publicly on a stage so that it conveys its expressive message to an audience.
To the extent that Miss USOA engages in commercial activity, such as selling tickets and advertisements for its pageants, it is no different from newspapers, bookstores, and theaters, which all charge fees. Even the parade in Hurley apparently charged a fee to some participants, see Irish-Am. Gay, Lesbian & Bisexual Grp. of Boston v. City of Boston, 418 Mass. 238, 247 n.13 (1994) ("The findings of the judge suggest that virtually any member or group drawn from the public may apply or pay to enter the parade."), rev'd by Hurley, and the Boy Scouts charge membership fees.[18]
And, like Miss USOA, most newspapers, bookstores, and theaters aim to make a profit. Indeed, the Copyright Act and the Constitution's Copyright and Patent Clause recognize that a profit motive and creative expression go hand in hand. See, e.g., Harper & Row Publishers, Inc. v. Nation Enterprises, 471 U.S. 539, 558 (1985). Not only do economic incentives encourage speech creation, but they also help the creators "spread its message further." 1-ER-28. "If a profit motive could somehow strip communications of the otherwise available constitutional protection, our cases from New York Times to Hustler Magazine would be little more than empty vessels." Harte-Hanks Comms., Inc. v. Connaughton, 491 U.S. 657, 667 (1989).
[C.] Requiring Miss USOA to include transgender contestants would impair its ability to convey its message
As the concept of a "Miss United States of America" beauty pageant suggests, the pageant aims to promote a particular vision of American ("United States of America") femininity ("Miss"). The other criteria reinforce this. Contestants in the Miss division must be United States citizens between the ages of eighteen and twenty-eight, who are not married and have never given birth,[19] which suggests a particular vision—however archaic or even offensive it might seem to some—of maidenly American beauty. Likewise, when the contestants speak and present themselves individually during the personal interview round of the pageant, they would presumably strive to show the judges that they share Miss USOA's vision.
Including Green in Miss USOA's pageant would significantly burden Miss USOA's ability to advocate its views that transgender women are not genuine exemplars of American femininity. "The forced inclusion of an unwanted person in a group infringes the group's freedom of expressive association if the presence of that person affects in a significant way the group's ability to advocate public or private viewpoints." Dale, 530 U.S. at 648. Just as including Dale, a gay rights activist, as an Assistant Scout Master would "force the [Boy Scouts] to send a message, both to the youth members and the world, that the Boy Scouts accepts homosexual conduct as a legitimate form of behavior," Dale, 530 U.S. at 653, so requiring Miss USOA to include Green would force Miss USOA to send a message that it sees transgender women as true women.
Indeed, if the pageant could indeed be required not to discriminate based on transgender status, then it would presumably be forbidden from discriminating in judging and not just in the eligibility criteria—just as a restaurant not only has to allow patrons regardless of protected status, but must serve them equally, and an employer not only has to accept applicants regardless of protected status, but must evaluate them equally. If that is so, then it is possible that Green might actually win the pageant, under these government-imposed equal treatment rules. And that would be even more clearly inconsistent with the message that Miss USOA is trying to send about "natural born women" being the ones who are truly feminine.
Miss USOA thus has certain eligibility criteria for contestants so that its staged production expresses its artistic vision and viewpoints; its eligibility decisions are "part and parcel of the [pageant's] creative content." Claybrooks, 898 F. Supp. 2d at 999. Miss USOA is "entitled to select the elements (here, cast members) that support whatever expressive message the [pageants] convey or are intended to convey." Id. at 1000.
As courts must "give deference to an association's assertions regarding the nature of its expression, [courts] must also give deference to an association's view of what would impair its expression." Dale, 530 U.S. at 653. But here such deference to the association's view of what would impair its expression is not even needed. Miss USOA has been "unequivocal" that it "views the concept of womanhood to be limited to 'natural born' or 'biological' women, which does not include transgender women like Green," 1-ER-29. That is part of its own self-definition of who counts as a "Miss." Allowing contestants within the pageant who do not fit that definition would impair Miss USOA's ability to convey the particular message that it chooses to convey.
Indeed, because including Green would force Miss USOA to send a message it does not agree with, Miss USOA may feel pressure to respond to disavow that compelled message, which itself would be an unconstitutional speech compulsion. See, e.g., Pacific Gas & Elec. Co. v. Public Util. Comm'n, 475 U.S. 1, 11–12 (1986) (plurality opin.). The inclusion of transgender contestants would likely attract the public's attention, especially because transgender participation in beauty pageants is still novel. For example, another beauty pageant recently crowned a transgender Miss Nevada, and this was extensively covered by media outlets.[20] A resulting opinion piece was titled, "A Man is the Winner: Trans Contestant Wins Women's Beauty Pageant."[21] If Green participated in the Miss USOA pageant, and the public began to discuss that, Miss USOA would have to publicly discuss its beliefs in more detail, and give more emphasis to them than it would otherwise have preferred.
And to hold that Miss USOA has not sufficiently nor sincerely expressed its views would likewise force Miss USOA to engage in undesired speech. If Miss USOA's views on transgender women are only protected if Miss USOA explicitly and regularly discusses them, then Miss USOA will have to increase its discussion of those beliefs to stave off any other lawsuits. This would risk drowning out—or at least diluting—Miss USOA's other messages, such as female empowerment, confidence, and success. Instead of the positive ideals Miss USOA primarily seeks to promote, Miss USOA might have to shift to more negative messaging. Miss USOA has the right to determine what to say, how much to say it, and in what way to say it. See Dale, 530 U.S. at 655–56 (concluding that the Boy Scouts' message was sincere because they chose to lead its members by example and provided "a positive moral code for living"). Miss USOA has sufficiently presented its viewpoints, and they warrant deference.
[D.] Miss USOA's interests in expressive association and free speech outweigh Oregon's interests under the Act
The Dale Court concluded that the Scouts' right to expressive association trumped New Jersey's interests in eliminating sexuality discrimination in places of public accommodation. 530 U.S. at 648. Similarly, here, Miss USOA's First Amendment rights trump Oregon's interests in eliminating gender-identity discrimination.
"[T]he associational interest in freedom of expression [must be] set on one side of the scale, and the State's interest on the other." Id. at 658–59. In such a balancing test, the Court has repeatedly found that the states' interests cannot justify an intrusion on First Amendment rights when the intrusion is severe. Id. at 659; see e.g., Hurley, 515 U.S. at 578–79. Indeed, when the Court rejected the First Amendment defense in Roberts, it did so only after holding that "the Jaycees … failed to demonstrate … any serious burdens on the male members' freedom of expressive association." 468 U.S. at 626 (emphasis added). If the Jaycees had also organized a Mr. Jaycees handsomeness contest, and limited it to men, amici doubt that the Court would have required the contest to equally admit and evaluate both men and women.
The district court rightly found that the facts in this case were materially similar to those in Dale and demand the same result. 1-ER-32. The state's interest in combatting transgender discrimination here is no more compelling than the interest in combatting sexual orientation discrimination in Dale. Id. New Jersey's accommodations law there and the Act here "both enforce a blanket prohibition against discrimination based on a protected status" and are equally restrictive "in achieving the state[s'] interest[s] in preventing discrimination." Id.
And the burden on Miss USOA here is at least as great as that on the Scouts in Dale. Indeed, as noted at p. 26, Green's theory might require Miss USOA to actually crown her the winner, which would undermine Miss USOA's message about what constitutes true femininity even more than having a gay Assistant Scoutmaster undermined the Scouts' message about what constitutes being "morally straight."
Denying Miss USOA the right to define who can qualify as a "Miss" would contradict and undermine the protection long afforded to artistic expression. The creators of films, television shows, plays, and other works would not be able to express their desired messages through their selective casting. Other pageants would likewise have to forswear their selection criteria, whether they turn on national origin, race, age, citizenship, marital status, or for that matter sex; Miss America would have to become Anyone Anywhere. Both the freedom of speech and the closely related freedom of expressive association preclude such a result.
[1] "Pageant," Encyclopedia Britannica, 2021, https://www.britannica.com/art/pageant.
[2] Annette Gordon-Reed, The intense debates surrounding Hamilton don't diminish the musical—they enrich it, Vox (Sept. 13, 2016), https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/9/13/12894934/hamilton-debates-history-race-politics-literature.
[3] See, e.g., Jeremy D. Goodwin, At Chelsea Theatre Works, A Fresh Take On Shakespeare That Looks New And Sounds (Very) Old, WBUR News (Feb. 23, 2018), https://www.wbur.org/news/2018/02/23/shakespeare-original-pronunciation-underlings.
[4] Become a Candidate, Miss America, 2021, https://www.missamerica.org/sign-up/ (last visited Oct. 19, 2021).
[5] See, e.g., Ore. Rev. Stat. § 659A.403(1) (marital status, sex, age); Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) (marital status, sex, age, citizenship).
[6] Step 1: Overview, Miss Asian Global & Miss Asian American Pageant, https://www.missasianglobal.com/apply/step1/ (last visited Oct. 4, 2021).
[7] About Our Pageant, Miss Asian Global & Miss Asian American Pageant, https://www.missasianglobal.com/about/ (last visited Oct. 19, 2021).
[8] Perhaps the most prominent Miss Asian American winner is Mona Lee Locke, the former First Lady of Washington. Attention on US ambassador's wife in Bejing [sic], AsiaOne (Sept. 2, 2012), https://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Diva/Story/A1Story20120902-369088.html.
[9] Pageant Registration, Miss Black America, https://www.missblackamerica.com/pageant-registry (last visited Oct. 19, 2021). This pageant's alumnae include Oprah Winfrey, Miss Black Tennessee 1971.
[10] What is Miss Gay America?, Miss Gay America, http://www.missgayamerica.com/what-is-mga.html (last visited Oct. 4, 2021).
[11] D.C. Code § 1402.31(a).
[12] Or, for some competitions, such as Mr. World, masculine. Top Talent, Miss World, 2021, https://www.missworld.com/#/news/1765 (last visited Oct. 19, 2021) (stating that Mr. World contestants "battle it out to discover who should be declared 'The world's most desirable man'").
[13] Swint v. Pullman-Standard, 624 F.2d 525, 535 (5th Cir. 1980).
[14] Helen Armitage, American Idol's Current Age Limit For Contestants, ScreenRant (May 13, 2021), https://screenrant.com/american-idol-show-age-limit/; Eligibility Requirements, NBC The Voice Official Casting Site, 2021, https://www.nbcthevoice.com/auditions/eligibility (last visited Oct. 19, 2021); Jorie Mark, Here's What It Takes To Apply For America's Next Top Model, The List (July 13, 2020), https://www.thelist.com/225953/heres-what-it-takes-to-apply-for-americas-next-top-model/.
[15] Justin McCarthy, Mixed Views Among Americans on Transgender Issues, Gallup (May 26, 2021), https://news.gallup.com/poll/350174/mixed-views-among-americans-transgender-issues.aspx (62% say "Play on teams that match birth gender," 34% say "Play on teams that match gender identity").
[16] This is a hypothetical; though there has been a Miss Jewish South Florida, see Victor Gonzalez, Miss Jewish South Florida 2011: Babes and Matzo Balls at Miami's "Main Hanukkah Party", Miami New Times (Dec. 15, 2011), https://www.miaminewtimes.com/music/miss-jewish-south-florida-2011-babes-and-matzo-balls-at-miamis-main-hanukkah-party-6444209], amici are unaware of any specific criteria for entry.
[17] Kurtis Lee, Here is how the Boy Scouts has evolved on social issues over the years, L.A. Times (Feb. 5, 2017), https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-boy-scouts-evolution-2017-story.html.
[18] Cost of Cub Scouting, Boy Scouts of America, 2021, https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/cost-of-cub-scouting/ (last visited Oct. 20, 2021).
[19] The Pageant, United States of America Pageants, https://www.unitedstatesofamericapageants.com/about (last visited Oct. 4, 2021).
[20] See, e.g., Josie Fischels & Sarah McCammon, 2021 Miss Nevada Will Be The First Openly Transgender Miss USA Contestant, NPR (July 3, 2021), https://www.npr.org/2021/07/03/1012666827/2021-miss-nevada-will-be-the-first-openly-transgender-miss-usa-contestant; Sarah Betancourt, Miss Nevada to be first openly transgender Miss USA contestant, Guardian (June 30, 2021 11:38 AM), https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/30/miss-nevada-first-openly-transgender-miss-usa-contestant; Dan Avery, Nevada pageant winner to become 1st transgender Miss USA contestant, NBC News (June 29, 2021 11:30 AM), https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/nevada-pageant-winner-become-1st-transgender-miss-usa-contestant-rcna1298; Kiara Brantley-Jones, Kataluna Enriquez, 1st transgender woman to win Miss Nevada USA, speaks out on overcoming challenges to claim title, Good Morning America (July 19, 2021), https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/culture/story/kataluna-enriquez-1st-transgender-woman-win-miss-nevada-78554882. "Miss USA" in these articles is a different organization from Miss United States Of America, LLC.
[21] Kenny Webster, A Man is the Winner: Trans Contestant Wins Women's Beauty Pageant, Walton and Johnson, KPRC Radio (Mar. 22, 2021), https://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/walton-and-johnson/content/2021-03-22-a-man-is-the-winner-trans-contestant-wins-womens-beauty-pageant/.
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Everyone is missing the big picture
Transgender is a misdiagnosed mental disease, often times/ most times and intentional misdiagnosis. Both before and after the change, that mental illness still exists. At some point in the future, those falsely diagnosed as transgender will find a better treatment for thier mental illness, but after the surgery, it will be too late to repair the damage.
Tom,
Do I understand your argument correctly? "It's a mental disease. People have been doing this surgery for well over 50 years, and seem pretty content with their decision, so far. But at some point in the future, there will be some treatment that is developed, and at that point, these trans people will then understand what a poor decision they had made...but it will be too late to do anything about it for these people."
I guess that, in the existential sense, you *might* be right . . . it's hard to disprove a theory that rests of "...and something will happen in the future that will make people reevaluate how they feel about ___." But do you have any empirical evidence that might support what you are guessing (hoping??) will happen?
"People have been doing this surgery for well over 50 years, and seem pretty content with their decision, "
For 'sky high suicide rates' values of 'pretty content'.
Wonder what might contribute to those high suicide rates.
If you are suggesting it is mostly regret then I suspect you're wrong.
No, I'm not suggesting that it's regret, at least not in all cases. (Some, of course.) I'm suggesting that the surgery doesn't fix the underlying problem.
In much the same way as bariatric surgery doesn't cure anorexia, 'sex-reassignment' surgery doesn't cure gender dysmorphia.
bernard11
November.1.2021 at 5:58 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
Wonder what might contribute to those high suicide rates.
"If you are suggesting it is mostly regret then I suspect you're wrong."
Contair - the suicide rate is higher post surgery than pre-surgery
It doesn't seem to me to matter why the high suicide rate occurs when the claim was that that the surgeries produce individuals who "seem pretty content".
The op's claim jumped out to me as an unlikely one obviously requiring a link, but apparentl santamonica didn't think so. He needs to get out of his silo more often.
"People have been doing this surgery for well over 50 years, and seem pretty content with their decision, so far. "
Citation needed.
Turns out that most trans people do not get genital surgery, especially M to F.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6626314/
"Do I understand your argument correctly? "It's a mental disease. People have been doing this surgery for well over 50 years, and seem pretty content with their decision, so far. But at some point in the future, there will be some treatment that is developed, and at that point, these trans people will then understand what a poor decision they had made..."
Well, gender dysphoria (which is not the same thing as being transgender) is a condition that sometimes indicates surgical intervention. One treatment for this condition is to treat people as the gender they identify as without surgical intervention.
On the contrary, mental diseases never "indicate[] surgical intervention", though I'm not sure that the State should intervene to protect the mad individual from theyself in every case.
The DSM-IR listed it as such.
Tom for equal rights, what credentials, if any, enable you to diagnose mental illness in persons whom you have presumably not examined?
"not guilty
November.1.2021 at 4:36 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
Tom for equal rights, what credentials, if any, enable you to diagnose mental illness in persons whom you have presumably not examined?"
Your question is not relevent to my statement - however it should be obvious to the impartial observer.
First - The mental health profession has a long a sordid history of false diagnosis and false treatments for the mentally ill. From shock treatments, to frontal lobotomies, etc. The major diagnosis dejure in the 1980's was the repressed memory syndrome which was later to determined to by planted in the minds of the patients by the physcologists.
Each of these treatments and diagnosis were considered the gold standard of their day. Transgender - is just another variation of the long running sordid history in the mental health profession. The treatment and diagnosis de jure.
Sanctimoni - makes the comment that the treatment has been done for 50 years - that is true - but it hasnt been done successfully for 50 years. Those individuals remain mentally ill both before and after the surgery.
IOW, you don't know WTF you're talking about.
bernard11
November.1.2021 at 4:53 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
IOW, you don't know WTF you're talking about.
What I stated is common knowledge by those who are not blinded to reality by wokeness
Common knowledge?
What is the source of this "common knowledge?"
And how useful is what you think is "common knowledge" in mental health diagnosis?
Just another variation on "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" Like we're not supposed to notice or remember that the DSM changes like a wind-vane with the politics.
Well, when it comes to mental health diagnoses I'm not inclined to believe either one, and certainly not you.
What some nut like you is inclined to believe would be of no interest to anyone if we could only diable your ability to vote.
It's simply obvious that some guy born with a dick that thinks he's a woman is sick in the head, because he isn't one.
The major diagnosis dejure in the 1980's was the repressed memory syndrome
No. It wasn't. How many such diagnoses do you think there were?
bernard11
November.1.2021 at 5:59 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
The major diagnosis dejure in the 1980's was the repressed memory syndrome
No. It wasn't. How many such diagnoses do you think there were?"
Bernard - you are demonstrating a complete disengagement from reality
Do you have an answer, or are you just throwing out some BS?
How many, Joe? What percentage of all mental health health diagnoses were "repressed memory syndrome?"
If you don't know, you're full of shit, as is Tom.
Of course , for something to be the "diagnosis dejure" (where "dejure" is actually not a good word choice -- "faddish diagnosis of the day" is what I took as the obvious meaning) doesn't require that it constitute any particular percentage of all diagnoses, but go on a fool's errand if you want. This business of demanding others work to prove to you something obvious is anyway pure jackassery.
You're doing the usual 'science was wrong once, so it's wrong here.' Which is, and has always been, a dodge from people who prefer their own facts to our best guess about reality.
"our best guess"? Who is this "we", kemosabe?
I've seen YOUR "best guesses" about reality, and they're laughable.
Arten't you the moron who asserted that the parent of the girl that was raped in a school restroom by a guy in a skirt had rushed to the cameras? My best guess is that THAT was YOUR "best guess", and it was just motivated bullshit, just like here.
Sarcastro - there is a big difference between science and social science.
There is no scientific support for the proposition that a pseudo biological change can cure a mental illness.
it is only progressive woke social science that supports a faddish mental illness diagnosis
On the other hand, our nation is such that you, sadly, need medical and scientific reasons just to be free, like a diagnosis, or being born that way.
Properly speaking, it's no one's business, so you shouldn't have to rely on such things just to be free.
"You're out of order! You're out of order! The whole trial is out of order!"
Spoken by the good Rev's namesake.
Of course beauty pageants, who are private actors, can limit participation to whomever they want. One imagines for example, a beauty pageant of Natural Born Zombies being sued for discrimination against live people.
What a rediculous issue to command the time and resources of our legal system, to say nothing of the time and resources of Prof. Volokh and his students. One would hope in the future though that his students would take up more demanding tasks.
Like extreme conservatives who damage their credibility and seriousness with the general public, the progressives who would argue otherwise with respect to these pageants damage their credibility and seriousness and harm their desire to have their legitimate views, of which there are many outside of this issue, accepted and acted upon.
Good Grief, has stupidity comes to this in our supposedly highly educated ruling class!
"has stupidity comes to this in our supposedly highly educated ruling class!"
Actually it is just within that class that many more examples or stupidity are most abundant.
Or maybe members of that class just just are more likely to have the resources to make legal issues of their foolishness.
could be, but I hear many colleagues buy buy into the most extremes aspects of DEI-speak
Yet, it wasn't Volokh and his student amicus brief clinic that filed suit, they are responding to the suit somebody else filed.
And like a lot of student projects, especially one with a set theme, first amendment law, they are probably always searching for suitable projects for students.
This one seems as good as any.
Now do cake.
I had the same thought. Wedding cakes are expressive. Certainly if you write on it "Congratulations Adam and Steve" you are expressing an idea. And even if you don't, in our culture, a wedding cake is a symbol of celebration of a wedding.
I don't understand Prof. Volokh's position that wedding cakes are not expressive, while a beauty pageant is.
I took his point to be, "A beauty pageant is a type of performance, similar in important ways to a play or other live theatre. Baking a cake, taking photographs, while perhaps worthy of First Amendment protections, are certainly not remotely "performances." "
That may be, but why does whether something is a "performance" impact on whether it is protected by the First Amendment?
Printing a sign with a message seems to me to be quintessential expression protected by the First Amendment, as would be publishing an opinion piece in a newspaper or blog. None of those are "performances."
I'm guessing Eugene thinks only the pageant involves expressive association. Also, Eugen's take in Masterpiece was based on Phillips categorically refusing to customize any cake for a same-sex wedding. Eugene did not pass judgment on whether Phillips could refuse including specific messages.
And, Eugene equated a pageant to theatre. I'm pretty sure the latter is considered speech.
That is indeed the issue. Not clear to me what Prof. Volokh's position would be if the refusal was only to write a specific verbal message.
But IMO, that should make no difference. There are plenty of ways to express oneself without using words. Expressive dancing, which made it to the Supreme Court, Barnes v. Glen Theatre, Inc., 501 U.S. 560 (1991), is one example. A Picasso painting is another. A custom made wedding cake is another. The last of these is an artistic celebration of a wedding. I don't see why it makes a difference that one puts words on it or not.
The positions might on rare occasions be legitimate, but by advocating nuttery these progressives indicate that their advocacy ought to be discounted as coming from nutters.
I don't mind the conclusion, but the way to get there seems like a stretch. As far as I know, participants in a pageant aren't required to say or do anything. It's just that, if they want to win, certain acts and statements are probably a good choice. So that seems like it's some way away from a play or any other kind of speech for hire.
"say or do anything"
Last time I saw a beauty pageant was a zillion years ago on Japanese TV. They are required to strut around, pose, etc; sing or play an instrument or do something, and they are required to answer questions.
What world do you live in? What kind of beauty pageants have you seen -- are they carted around on dollies, motionless, so everyone can see them?
Your biases are way too obvious. If you can't see them yourself, you are blind.
Japanese pageants are weird because of idol culture, though. They can be incredibly elaborate and they usually include current personalities/idols, especially "graduating" singers. US pageants usually stay away from famous people, I think.
I've had to watch one or two beauty pageants, mostly Miss Universe, and, yeah, they actually do have to do a lot of prescribed things. It's not just in Japan.
I suppose you could enter and refuse to draft a speech or wear a bathing suit, you'd just forfeit.
They are required to compete in several categories, in that sense it is the same situation that pentathletes find themselves during the Olympic Games.
I don't see your point, at least if you're talking about Volokh's argument. The 1A rights being asserted aren't those of any participants but of the org itself. The org puts on a show expressing certain values. It doesn't matter whether the contenders do their stuff or not, the show is still the org's.
Reread Volokh. The expressive "speech" he defends is not that of the contestants, but of the organizers.
Yes, I get that. But in what way are the organisers doing something that is analogous to putting on a play, or other kind of performance? Wouldn't that require them to put constraints on what the contestants say or do?
Yes, I get that.
No, you clearly don't "get" anything.
Wouldn't that require them to put constraints on what the contestants say or do?
They do. You think these pageants are just free-for-alls where the contestants wander the stage doing and saying whatever they want whenever the want?
As far as I know, participants in a pageant aren't required to say or do anything.
As usual, as far as you know turns out to be a distance of 0.
Why doesn't Armenia get to be Asian when all of the countries it borders are Asian? Does Ataturk run it?
The whole idea that "Asia" and "Europe" are distinct continents is nonsense anyway. Why expect nonsense to make sense?
Some distinctions are cultural or linguistic rather than physical, by which I mean that we refer to the eastern part of Eurasia as Asia and the western part as Europe, and have for a very long time.
Why is the United States "America?"
Because it named itself that.
Not really. Checking around, it seems it may have stemmed from the British practice of referring to the colonies as "British America."
Regardless, it caught on and is widely used. That there is no particular physical border between the US and Canada doesn't mean that the usage is nonsense. The French seem to prefer L' Etats-Unis," and the Italians "I Stati Uniti," both of which sound, to my ear, more harmonious than "The United States."
Other languages, anyone?
I put "United States" into an English-to Klingon translator and it came out tuqjIjQa'
Then I re-translated to English and it came back "United Kingdom."
Do the Klingons know something we don't know?
I also noticed that Israelis are "Asian" here, while Armenians are not. Interesting. (I didn't do any checking, but I assume that if Israel is in, then so are Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.)
Don't tell Bernstein.
Why do you imagine he'd have a problem with Syria, Lebanon, Jordan being in, alongside Israel?
Please don't project your bigotry on others,
I didn't mean he would have a problem. Your imaginings about my "bigotry" are wrong.
All I was suggesting was that the subject would call forth yet another tirade about the foolishness of putting all members of a large and highly diverse group into a single category - Asian Americans.
"
Not getting this question. Quite apart from thefact that Ataturk is long dead, I'm pretty sure that the Asia Minor side of the Bosphorus is considered part of Asia.
They're holding the pageant in *Oregon*?
(Known nationwide for its tolerant attitude toward the non-PC)
Not the national pageant, I believe, but the Oregon qualifying one (see https://www.instagram.com/usoamissor/?hl=en).
I see that Boise, Idaho is near the border. Why not hold a pageant-in-exile there? Unless Idaho has similar laws.
Might attract a bigger audience.
Looking at pretty women appeals to Boise.
Hold it in Tijuana, even if they have civil-rights laws there they may agree not to enforce them if it brings enough tourists.
It occurred to me that the Miss Bumbum Pageant might be what is held in Tijuana, but I see that it's in Brazil. (h/t John Derbyshire)
I'm fascinated by the obsession with Othello. I was taught that In Shakespeare's original productions there were no female performers, that female parts were performed by young men. I seriously doubt that Othello was originally played by a Moor, as I imagine Moorish actors would have been in short supply in London in the early 1600's when the play was first performed.
Of course a Moor was a generic term for Muslims, so Othello may or not have been black as we know it.
In the context of the play, it's pretty clear that the character of Othello is intended to be dark-skinned. Since there wasn't a "real" Othello, I'm not sure what other standard you'd use.
"dark skinned" does not mean sub Saharan african.
A Mid Eastern "Moor" was "dark skinned" compared to an Englishman of that era. "Brown" versus "black" in our modern race conscious lingo.
As far as I know, the play does not say where Othello was born so its all conjecture hoe sark a fictional character was.
Makes me wonder if the actors cast as Othello by Shakespeare wore makeup and, if so, was it blackface.
But North African rather than Sub-Saharan seems more likely.
Othello was unlikely to be a Muslim, since he refers to killing a "circumcised dog."
He probably was intended to be African. The term "Moor" encompassed Africans, after all, and someone tells Desdemona's father that, "an old black ram is tupping your white ewe," early in the play.
Mohammed was born c. 570, so North Africa was Muslim by the time of Othello (Venice). The "circumcised dog" was a Turk. I don't think you can reach your conclusion. More likely Shakespeare was letting the words flow and it just didn't occur to him at the time that a North African Moor would also be circumcized. The just weren't that many black Africans (which is what I take you to mean by "African") in Europe.
Anyone who can give Bohemia a coastline doesn't use a fact checker.
Bingo.
I *HIGHLY* recommend "Shakespeare in a Divided America." I thoroughly enjoyed the sociological analysis in the book. But it also has a ton of historical gems, including a lot about women and their ability to perform in the Bard's plays...and the same re black actors.
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0525522298/reasonmagazinea-20/
As you like it, but it's probably a tempest in a teapot, so don't be such a Titus.
Your post ended well, so all's well on this end. (If I ever wrote a porn parody, "Fullstaff" would definitely be the lead character."
"I imagine Moorish actors would have been in short supply in London in the early 1600's"
They could sentence a Moorish pirate to perform his community service by performing in the theater.
I imagine Moorish actors would have been in short supply in London in the early 1600's when the play was first performed.
Per Wikipedia,on "Black British People,"
The black population may have been several hundred during the Elizabethan period, though their settlement was actively discouraged by Queen Elizabeth I's privy council. Archival evidence shows records of more than 360 African people between 1500 to 1640 in England and Scotland.
So yeah, short supply, but there could have been one or two. Still, I imagine we'd know if one of these people had actually played Othello then.
So when can we have a beauty pageant of White virgins?
Of course.
Beauty pageants are not public accommodations.
The Oregon Civil Rights Commission says it's OK if you throw them in a live volcano.
"likewise, Miss USOA is trying to send a message—controversial as it may be—about what it understands to be true femininity. 2-ER-225"
Not a legal angle but I doubt their vision departs greatly from that of the general public. The idea is not controversial, it's just that anyone bold enough to voice it may get a lot of heat...
Yeah, the idea that their message is in any way (except tautologically: Somebody controverts it, ergo it's controversial.) controversial is bunk. Almost everybody agrees that dudes aren't girls, it's just that the tiny minority who disagree are strategically placed.
The general public didn't really understand homosexuality very well prior to the 80s. It largely relied on deeply biased stereotypes that a few, small portions of America have yet to give up. See, for example, the idea that homosexuals are sexual predators and pedophiles. And yet, I think it would be fair today to say that the general public is largely okay with same-sex marriage.
I'd be willing to bet that the general public isn't aware of the variability of the human form and how thousands of people are born not exactly either male or female by the standard definitions. So as long as the general public still thinks all women are born with only X chromosomes or only a vagina*, I wouldn't be surprised if they still think of "female" though that impossibly narrow definition. Time and education will change that, just like it did for lesbians and gay men.
*I'm not talking about sex reassignment surgery here--just the innate state of an infant upon birth.
"impossibly narrow"?
When your "impossibly narrow" definition encompasses at minimum 90% of the relevant population, it's not all that narrow.
When your "impossibly narrow" definition encompasses at minimum 99.975% of the relevant population, it's not all that narrow.
FIFY.
Can't vouch for it but Scientific American is probably accurate about technical details, says that 1/4,500 Americans show ambiguous genitalia at birth. :
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/q-a-mixed-sex-biology/
Another 1/15,000 are born with XY chromosomes but appear female:
https://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/more-women-than-expected-are-genetically-men/
I gather that you think its a deepliy biased fact that homos punch above their weight and about one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys by men.
Yeah Dennis Hastert and Jerry Sandusky, men who present themselves to the world as heterosexually married are good example of "homos."
Yeah Dennis Hastert and Jerry Sandusky, men who present themselves to the world as heterosexually married are good example of "homos."
Why do you say that black people are inferior to white people in every way?
The inquiry should be simple:
- Is the entity being accused of "discrimination" a public or a private entity?
(If the latter, case dismissed.)
I remember in a simpler time a legal argument over whether Hispanic women were treated unfairly by a tanning contest.
Men are men.
Women are women.
Science.
This seems "obvious" to me.
The problem seems to be that people have very rigid definitions of man/woman.
If someone feels better in a dress with boobs, why is that not a "man"?
It is estimated that 1 in 100,000 women are born with a Y chromosome and female genitalia. And this is just one of many other ways humans naturally vary from our belief that sex is strictly binary. It's not. It never has been. And as long as we keep pretending it is, we'll have silly disagreements like this one.
By your own numbers, you appear to have the sign flipped on which one of these things is "impossibly narrow".
"If someone feels better in a dress with boobs, why is that not a "man"?
Perhaps you meant "why is that not a women?"
When I was a young'un I had visions of a career being a musician. I played every waking moment when not at my day job. Played some gigs, made some money. Was sure I was better than a majority of the so-called musicians making a living playing crap. I wasn't. Knew I would find the right group, would break into the big time. I didn't.
"Want to be" is not a substitute for "is"...
Did I miss the sarc? I'm pretty sure that most of those are women.
So... why do they discriminate against married women?
Are divorced women acceptable?
Presumably there is a fee for participating. Why not just score zer last place?
"So... why do they discriminate against married women?"
Well, duh: Because it's Miss America. The married women need to compete in Mrs. America.
It makes no difference how much he *feels* like a natural woman.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK
I sleep all night and I work all day
I cuts down tress, he eat my lunch
He puts frills on my hatchets
I put on women's clothing
And enter beauty pageants
Dang it
I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK
I sleep all night and I work all day
I cut down tress, I eat my lunch
I put frills on my hatchets
I put on women's clothing
And enter beauty pageants
♫♫ I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay. ♪♪
I work all night and I sleep all day.
I've snipped my d*ck. And when I pee,
I go to the women's lav-or-tee.
[In advance: apologies to all.]
For those that don't recognize it, that's an actual Monty Python skit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts
I’m just waiting to see the Venn Diagram of Trumpkins who think Twitter can be forced to host them but this pageant can’t be forced to host trans women.
I think their argument is that Twitter is a quasi-monopoly and should treated as a common carrier, like the phone company, whereas I doubt that the organizers of this pageant have anywhere near that power.
(Personally, I think forcing Twitter to carry anything is bad policy and may be unconstitutional. As I have written here before, the solution is to force these platforms to disclose their editorial policies in detail, and if proven that they fail to adhere to them, lose their Section 230 immunity.)
That's Eugene's take and he isn't a Trumpkin.
Can you be sure Nieporent doesn't think so?
It's been said of me here, "He's a Trumper...." The definition can apparently be quite a loose one.
You really needn't rehearse the argument, since of course there is one, just like there's an argument here that a trans-exclusive qualification requirement is supposed to reflect an "opinion" rather than just an invidious bias. The fact that Eugene pretzel-logicked himself into an argument that social media companies ought to be treated as "common carriers" that must not only allow anyone to upload messages on a non-discriminatory basis but distribute those messages to an audience apparently of their choosing does not mean that it's a particularly good argument, or that it works.
Never mind the hoi polloi. You all thought social media companies should be forced to host Trump long before any smarty-pants law professors gave you a fig leaf of an argument to hide your authoritarian impulses behind.
"You all"?
No, I never thought that. You really need to control your strawman impulse. It makes you ridiculous.
I mean, opinion and bias are synonymous; the latter is just a dysphemism for an opinion one disapproves of.
Yes, indeed, take out your feelings about Trump on the beauty pageants, that's the ticket!
To be fair; a decent percentage of Trump's boorish sexual bad behavior was backstage at teenage beauty pageants, so there is SOME thematic relationship here. 🙂
"So look at the inkblots and tell me what you see."
"This is Trump raping the constitution. This is Trump putting children in cages. This is Trump with a Hitler moustache."
"You certainly seem obsessed with Donald Trump."
"*I'm* obsessed? *You're* the one with all these pictures of him."
Was this pageant essentially acting as a government agent?
I think referencing the Boy Scouts here is perfect.
The Scouts wanted to exclude homosexual men. They had a right to provided they admit they were a private organization. Then the donated land and facilities dried up. The cash dried up. And their brand went from "all American" to wacko religious cult. And now over a decade later, we see where that's gotten them and scouting in general.
There are so many other things wrong with beauty pageants besides their bigoted view of trans women that I don't see much of a future for them regardless. I wish them luck as they fade into history.
Get Woke, go broke.
Did you read the post you're replying to? It seems rather the opposite.
I read it, and I proved it was bullshit. What've YOU got?
The Mormons and their huge numbers didn't bail on Scouting because the BSA was insufficiently accommodating of gay men.
"And now over a decade later, we see where that's gotten them and scouting in general."
They eventually gave up on excluding homosexual scoutmasters, and their brand took another dive, because almost all of their target market didn't want their boys spending time in that company.
It did get them some donations from woke companies that weren't enrolling kids, though...
After a quick skim, I'd query the linkage between expressive rights and association rights in the context of what the producer of an entertainment can do. It seems the former should be stronger, which would make SJ only for the former the logical move. And does this mean that they wouldn't hire a trans stage crew? Limiting it to performers seems to establish a direct identity with the speech right, rather than an equivalence.
And, to be accurate, if you wanted to to the original Othello, you'd need Burbage in a funny wig and an absolutely terrified apprentice.
Mr. D.
They absolutely ought to be able to not hire trannys as stage crew.
"May Beauty Pageants Limit Themselves to "Natural Born Women"?"
What about September Beauty Pageants?
Ah yes, the Ms. American Grandma Pageant.
I'm really curious what kinds of law students find themselves working on an amicus brief reframing bias against transgender women as merely an "opinion" about womanhood - as though the lives and identities of LGBTQ people are merely topics for conversation - and decide, "You know, this is fine."
I wonder if these students are also familiar with Eugene's longstanding quest to undermine sexual harassment law? Or his view that discrimination against same-sex couples ought to be constitutionally protected?
Not that anyone perusing this sad website has the theoretical chops to examine the issue, but Miss USOA's decision to discriminate against transgender women is hard to square with what a pageant is, which is a celebration not so much of any innate "womanhood" of its contestants, but their ability to perform according to an inherited standard that our society has deemed to constitute "womanhood."
All gender is a performance, and a beauty pageant is just amping that performance up; these women are dressing in a certain fashion, making themselves up a certain way, training their bodies and adopting a poise, all in a clearly artificial and performative way that we can all easily recognize. So who better to compete in a Miss USOA pageant than a transgender woman, who necessarily has studied, adopted, exemplified all of those attributes? Aren't transgender women and Miss USOA celebrating precisely the same thing?
No, according to Miss USOA - because transgender women were born with the "wrong" genitalia. That may be true, but I cannot say that I recall any point in a typical Miss USOA pageant where contestants' genitalia are checked for their conformity to a "womanly" standard or their DNA evaluated for its consistency with the "womanly" genotype. Really, by disqualifying transgender women, Miss USOA betrays itself; it admits that "womanhood" is not all about the artifice it celebrates, that "womanhood" is, on some level, essential. But that being so, what is with all this nonsense about beauty standards, dress, poise? Why not embrace women as they actually are, and not as how they drag themselves up to be, for the amusement of sad law professors?
"born with the 'wrong' genitalia"
It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp9MPLEAqA&t=2s
"Don't worry, I'll pay my psychiatric bill in full, or my name isn't Napoleon Bonaparte!"
"as though the lives and identities of LGBTQ people are merely topics for conversation"
*You're* trying to have a conversation right now, aren't you?
Or if someone contradicts you, will you yell out, "don't you oppress me!"
Is the life of Hank Phillips merely a topic of conversation? He endured death threats and legal persecution for refusing to drop his pinch of incense in the Woke altar.
It's not "bias" against "transgender women" to recognize that they are mentally ill.
And of course revulsion at same-sex "couples" is Constitutionally protected.
As is the right of beauty pageant organizers and participants to consider your your tendentious assertions about what they are doing to be retarded, as of course is practically everything you deposit here.
Nobody really believes that.
Well, that's one way to beg the question.
You are free to start your own transgender pageant or drag queen performance. There are plenty of those already.
But more to your point, it's all a performance then why have limitations on age, marital status, whether someone had posed nude in the past, etc?
In fact, in a dog show, why limit it only to dogs? Can't you dress up a cat to look like a dog? It's all a performance, right?
My understanding, these events are Scholarship competitions.
We all know qualifications for scholorships can literally, be anything.
That the Miss USA contest requires more than an application letter has no bearing.
As for a little citation tangent, I've never liked that last comma. This isn't a critique of Eugene. He's following convention. But WTF does that comma even do? It's completely unnecessary. It has nothing to do with grammar. And it doesn't improve readability. If anything, it reduces it.
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I'm waiting for the lawsuits against dog shows that don't allow cats to enter (or visa versa).
If my dog identifies as a cat, who is the pageant to say otherwise??