California Business Owners Sue Gov. Newsom Over the Lockdowns
How far do "emergency powers" really extend?
HD Download"[The police] asked me, are you knowingly going against Gavin Newsom's orders? And I said, 'Yes,'" says Annie Rammel, co-owner of the Oak and Elixir restaurant in the San Diego County beach town of Carlsbad, which was the site of mass disobedience of statewide lockdown orders in 2020.
On December 3, 2020, Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) ordered all California restaurants to stop serving customers in person and to convert their businesses to takeout only. It was the third shutdown order of the pandemic. Rammel had decided that enough was enough
"When the same person that's telling you and restricting you from being open is going to a restaurant himself and eating inside, not six feet apart, it puts a little fire in you to say… this isn't right," Rammel tells Reason, referring to photos capturing Newsom dining indoors unmasked with lobbyists at the pricey French Laundry restaurant less than a month earlier.
"I'm going to stand up for my rights. I'm going to stand up for my business that I worked extremely hard to run and to have, and I'm going to stand up for the community."
Rammel was skeptical of Newsom's assurances that the latest order would only last a few weeks and began organizing resistance with other local business owners.
"I told restaurant owners, you're not smart if you think this is only going to be three weeks. It's definitely going to be months. And I was right."
Rammel and other Carlsbad businesses formed a coalition that eventually numbered in the hundreds.
"We opened up, and it was crazy because [Carlsbad was] really the only city that was doing this outspokenly and telling the community, telling the news that we were going to stay open," says Rammel. "And we were going to continue to be safe. We're going to continue to wear masks and sanitize and six feet apart and do everything that we had been doing before. But that we were not going to close down."
Rammel was issued a citation by San Diego's public health department and by the state alcohol board, which threatened to revoke her liquor license.
But the county sheriff had decided not to enforce the governor's order. The local police issued her a citation, but she says they apologized as they did so.
"They said, 'We just want you to know that we don't want to be doing this. We want you guys to survive this, sorry,' as they're handing me the paper," says Rammel.
Today, the coalition that defied the governor's orders is suing Newsom and their state and local health departments to drop the fines and compensate them for losses incurred because of the shutdowns. The defendants in the case declined to comment for this story. Whoever prevails, the case could have implications for what the scope of executive power truly is in a state of emergency.
"Underground regulations facilitate arbitrary enforcement, and they undermine the rule of law," says attorney Matt Harrison, who represents the San Diego County business owners. (Harrison is a former senior fellow at Reason Foundation, the nonprofit that publishes Reason and Reason TV.)
He says Newsom's emergency orders didn't follow the proper procedure for issuing new regulations.
"The most canonical, established application of due process is that the law needs to be clear enough so that a reasonable person can understand what's prohibited," says Harrison.
Newsom's Blueprint for a Safer Economy, released on August 28, 2020, laid out a color-coded tier system indicating which types of businesses were able to open and in what manner. Harrison says that this plan wasn't legally binding because the governor didn't follow the correct legal procedure: Regulations in California are required to be submitted to the secretary of state, who then makes them available for a public review process. Regulations also have to be accompanied by an explanation for why they're justified.
"It's the rules for the rule-makers, the regulations for the regulators," says Harrison.
The state argues that the governor was able to circumvent this procedure because he was issuing emergency orders during a public health crisis.
This case is about whether due process exists in emergencies in the state.
Rammel says that despite the governor's mantra, the regulations didn't follow the science with regard to COVID-19 spread.
"The restrictions didn't make sense. We were keeping people safe. The numbers from restaurants, there was no proof that the outbreaks were coming from us," says Rammel.
Rammel and the coalition lost the first round when a San Diego Superior Court judge dismissed the coalition's lawsuit. The case is now before an appeals court.
Courts have recently demonstrated a willingness to strike down administrative actions that circumvent standard rule-making procedures. Several Trump administration actions were struck down, including one that would have added a census question about citizenship status, one that would have changed deportation procedures, and an executive order that would have allowed employers to opt out of certain birth control insurance coverage.
Rammel says the fines she still faces for refusing to follow the governor's order amount to a couple of thousand dollars and don't threaten her livelihood. But this isn't a fight about money.
"I still feel like our rights are being tested, and that's scary because we live in America where we're supposed to be free, and we're supposed to be able to have our rights and make the choice to be open…And I think that's being threatened right now," says Rammel.
Produced by Zach Weissmueller; camera by Dillon Mortensen; graphics by Isaac Reese
Photo credits: Jim Ruymen; Brian Feinzimer/Sipa USA/Newscom; Dean Musgrove/Zumapress/Newscom; Paul Kitagaki Jr./Zumapress/Newscom
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Many people on the left love this lockdown fascist shit. It gets them pumped for doing even worse stuff to you.
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Then the solution is to reduce the number of said leftists. To a more manageable level. Our rights > progressive lives.
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SMH. Apparently you don’t care who you kill.
That would be you and the rest of the evil marxists imposing this totalitarian shit.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10050039/More-HALF-Trump-voters-want-red-states-secede-union.html
Not much of a difference between tribes within the polls.
Trumpistas want to kill Democrats, and Bidenbots want to kill Republicans.
I thought all the Democrats moved to Canada in 2016. What am I missing here?
About a year ago, had a conversation with a woke trust funder. She talked about how if Trump won, she would move to England. She also mentioned she said that when Trump ran against Hillary. Yet she was still in Virginia. Progressive actions are often incongruent with progressive words. And to echo Ken, progressives truly are the most horrible Americans.
Good to see you’ve dehumanized your political enemies. That’s the first step towards murdering them.
Don’t you dare consider that progressives, at least the people anyway not the politicians, overwhelmingly have good intentions.
Don’t you dare consider that they want people to take the vaccine because they believe it will make the population safe from the disease. No, you must believe it’s a nefarious plot to take away our freedom! (that’s you confusing the politicians with the people)
You must, I repeat you MUST frame everything through a lens of BAD INTENTIONS! PROGRESSIVES ARE EVIL! THEY HATE AMERICA!
Which is precisely what that polls said. You hate Hate HATE the other political tribe and would love to see them die, and they feel the same way about you.
The first step to murdering political enemies is restricting their freedoms. Got mandates? Got a passport to enter a restaurant? Got the proper narrative or face being banned?
Controlling other people is not a good intention.
Nobody said anything about restricting access to a vaccine. I was thankful when former President Trump was able to foster a rapid delivery for the folks that needed and wanted this.
First of the month I see. An inebriated ALL CAPS RAGE strawman.
I have no doubt that some progressives would like to see me die. I’m smart, productive, happy and free. I follow the NAP so I don’t wish death on folks like you; however, I do want to stop being coerced into paying for the lifestyle of others. Have a wonderful Friday.
“…I follow the NAP so I don’t wish death on folks like you;…”
I’m a convinced follower of the ANP, but find no contradiction in wishing lefty shits like sarc would fuck off and die.
“…NAP…”, but you knew that.
I don’t think Biden adheres to the NAP but he is an ardent practitioner of the nap.
He commits more violence during a single nap than I have my entire life.
The NAP does not apply to self-defense.
Nardz says that killing people of the other political tribe is self defense, because voting for the other team is an act of aggression.
“Nardz says that killing people of the other political tribe is self defense, because voting for the other team is an act of aggression.”
Cite fell off, and it’s a good chance this is but one more of your lies.
Thanks for coming here and lying about Nardz.
Say, you know what sarcasmic? No matter how hard you shill for the Democrats, chemleft, Shrike and White Mike still aren’t going to go on that fishing trip with you.
And here is ML literally white-knighting for a person who literally advocates for open murder of progressives, just because he perceives Nardz to be a part of ‘his tribe’.
No enemies to the right, isn’t that right ML?
Sarc, so lame when you respond to yourself
I don’t know about that, but when it comes to sarcasmic’s dishonest trolling tactics I’m going to tell him to fuck off every single day.
You too, you fifty-centing Democratic Party shill.
Not even using the pretext of trespassing on public property like you use to advocate for executing your political enemies? Oh my!
I have seen Nardz make comments that may not be exactly these words but could be fairly approximated to what sarc said. I could be wrong, but I don’t even think Nardz would dispute this.
I don’t think so.
I’ve never seen Nardz write what sarcasmic claims he wrote, and sarcasmic has a pretty well established reputation for lying here.
First of the month I see. An inebriated ALL CAPS RAGE strawman.
No you fucking idiot. I’m mocking your rage and hatred of the other tribe.
Lol. You really aren’t.
Says the posterchild for obtuse.
And we find out that sarcasmic doesn’t know what “obtuse” means. FFS sarcasmic, google shit before you use it.
The first step to murdering political enemies is restricting their freedoms.
No. It’s dehumanizing them. Because when you don’t consider them to be human, they’re just animals. Easier to kill.
The left is dehumanizing those who won’t get vaccinated, who “question science”, who voted for Trump (they’re just knuckledraggers) and so on.
But the hatred I see every day from Ken is equally dehumanizing. Progressives are evil. They’re destroying the country from within. They hate America. They hate freedom. They’re the single greatest threat to civilization and they need to be stopped. Heck, they’re not even human.
Lol. More false equivocation. Sarcasmics open hostility to the right is all well intended of course.
Ken saying liberals are inherently more dangerous to liberty is simply fucking true.
But you’re so intent on attacking the right you justify your hatred.
“Ken saying liberals are inherently more dangerous to liberty is simply fucking true.”
Inherently? No it’s not true. Anyone who wields power is a threat to liberty, liberal or conservative or other. Remember Lord Acton? But this is just a manifestation of your Team Red shilling
Weird jeff. The left is in power now and you’re still attacking the right and trump.
And yes they are inherently more dangerous. They advertise their intents on their democratic planks and campaign pages for fucks sake.
Covid alone is enough to demonstrate but you agree with those aims.
Way to ignore what he said and talk about him.
Are you shitfaced again, sarcasmic? Because Jesse argued directly with Jeff’s claims.
You’re not really helping the fifty-centers by making idiotic accusations.
“Of all the tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under the omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep. His cupidity may at some point be satiated but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
C.S. Lewis
Open hostility? The only hostility I see comes from you and your Mean Girls club.
Look at the link I posted. The entire point was that after doing some polling, the left says the exact same thing about you!
Heck, there’s very little difference between the left and the right when it comes to feeling the other side is a threat to our way of life, that they want to destroy the country, that the country needs a strongman, that it’s our duty to eliminate the evil that poisons the country from within, the other party is a clear and present danger to the country, the media is part of the other party, and so on and so forth.
People on both sides believe those exact same things about the other side.
If you don’t like it, blame the Daily Mail, not me.
You aren’t the center dummy. You’ve convinced yourself you are but you are openly hostile only to one side.
And oddly enough the polling you posted doesn’t say all but you are pretending it does to justify your prior conclusions.
Look at your morning posts for fuck sakes. You attacked ivermectin solely because it is popular om the tight. Fuck of it helps right?
You were giddy Alex jones was sued then ran away when I asked you what actual defamation damages there were and if you realized it was expanding defamation to non individualized harm. Your only concern was it hurt somebody you hate.
Are you that self unaware?
Your whole intent on this site is to attack the right. Then cry when someone points out you’re aligned with the left. It is hilarious.
I didn’t say anything about ivermectin. Never have. Ohhhh, someone you think is one of my socks must have.
As far as Alex Jones goes, I’m sorry I have a life and stopped responding. Thing is, all your posts are about me. Never about the topic. So there’s no reason for me to respond anyway.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand, as usual, your entire post is about me.
“as usual, your entire post is about me”
You can always tell when sarcasmic is losing the plot when he starts attention whoring and making it all about him.
Sarc’s starved for attention. Please White Mike, take the poor guy fishing. He’s so lonely he’s been inventing imaginary friends.
“You can always tell when sarcasmic is losing the plot when he starts attention whoring and making it all about him….”
If s/he can’t claim to be the constant victim of those calling sarc’s bullhit, what else can offer any degree of legitimacy at all?
Words like deplorables, insurrectionists and conspiracy theorists.. Got it.
Ken refers them as horrible Americans. And I agree. They can reform.
The point of the Daily Mail article I linked to was that the left and right feel the same way about each other.
If you want to shoot the messenger, shoot the Daily Mail.
One wide wants freedom and the other wants to control. Keep pushing the both wides narrative.
Did you do anything productive today? This is rhetorical.
The “whoosh” sound was the point going over your head. Never mind.
It’s not like you’re capable of honest conversation anyway.
And yes I had a productive day, unlike those who have been posting for over twelve hours you know who you are, thanks for asking.
Whoosh. I don’t give a shit about your article; I wasn’t originally responding to you. Keep making it about yourself vulnerable narcissist.
If you ask me a direct question I’m going to assume it’s about me. That’s normal, not narcissism.
That’s ok though. I was just testing to see if you could make a comment without being a dick. I didn’t think you could. I was right.
“One wide wants freedom and the other wants to control. ”
THEY BOTH WANT CONTROL. Don’t you read the daily right-wing grievances around here? They bemoan that “leftists” are in charge of the schools, media, etc. They think THEY should be entitled to be in control. Just like the mythical good old days. Have you read anything Nardz has written? He doesn’t want to live and let live. He wants to wipe out the opposition. Sometimes both sides really are bad.
“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
Whoosh.
Whoosh is an understatement… for sarcasmic anyway. The lad’s a retard.
Chemjeff actually knows better, but he’s paid to lie and shill for the DNC.
“The point of the Daily Mail article I linked to was that the left and right feel the same way about each other.”
So tell me, Sarc. What are you going to do about it? Pick another fight with the mean girls? Will that fix things?
Why dehumanize them? Instead evince the greatest respect for those you’re about to murder, so nobody will suspect you, least of all your target.
Thats only how it works small scale. Lets say some individual sociopath (you?) wanted to get away with murdering a single individual. Then its probably a good idea to do what youre saying.
But large scale, which means in plain sight, you cant do it that way. You first need to dehumanize the target group to a reasonable degree. Then the public will become complicit or at least turn a blind eye where required.
This is the reason progressives have been working on dehumanizing conservatives for years. Further steps will be taken.
Progressives advocate force being used against me. They are a criminal gang against whom I am justified in defending myself by force.
You clearly have no idea how this is done. The first step to murdering political enemies is to murder them. Dark alley, knife in the back, garotte, poison their drink, etc. Why would you want to let them know you’re coming by restricting their freedoms?
Progressives advocate force being used against me. They are a criminal gang against whom I am justified in defending myself by force.
5.56
October.2.2021 at 1:40 pm
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Thats only how it works small scale. Lets say some individual sociopath (you?) wanted to get away with murdering a single individual. Then its probably a good idea to do what youre saying.
But large scale, which means in plain sight, you cant do it that way. You first need to dehumanize the target group to a reasonable degree. Then the public will become complicit or at least turn a blind eye where required.
This is the reason progressives have been working on dehumanizing conservatives for years. Further steps will be taken.
Cuz i can copy and paste myself to address this low resolution bs.
That was the one great move by the Trump admin. They got right on top of that. The other terrific effort was the pharm companies who got on it
They developed the vaccines, and ramped up production in record time. It really was operation warp speed.
“Good intentions” is always a double lie. Their intentions are never good, because they always involve ordering other people to do things which are none of their business. And the stated intentions are never their real intentions, which are always and simply to control everybody else.
No,I will never admit that statists of any stripe have good intentions, let alone accept them as excuses for their bad hidden intentions.
The road to Progressiville is paved with good intentions.
And bodies.
More than 100,000,000 bodies.
Sarc thinks people being fired for not being vaccinated is a byproduct of good intentions.
Their intentions are never good, because they always involve ordering other people to do things which are none of their business.
Well if you’re someone who thinks people should be controlled because, when left to their own devices, they’ll always do the wrong thing, then of course you’re going to order those idiots to do what’s right for them. And you’re going to feel all smug about it too.
Thing is, they think you’re evil. You think they’re evil. Is only one of you right? Are you both right? Are you both wrong?
Menken said something like the art of politics is your party convincing voters that the other party is evil, and both parties are right.
And you spend day in and day out trying to own the right wing here. Lol. Do you even realize that? Here is your quote after someone mentioned what the left is currently pushing on the unvaccinated… to wait until they start rounding them up for the ovens.
You dont give a single shit about others liberties because you think they should get vaccinated. Fuck their jobs right? They didn’t do what you wanted them to do.
Do you realize that all you talk about is me?
Hey another lie. Go read the roundup thread shit head. I have for more substantive comments and discussions than you day every single fucking day.
But you’re a self absorbed idiot so thats your take away.
As self unaware as jeff.
I see exactly zero comments of yours about any topic other than me or jeff.
Vulnerable narcissist.
He’s not self unaware, he’s overly self-aware to the exclusion of everything else. Even now look at how he tried to focus the conversation back on himself.
“Pay attention to meeeeeeeeeee” – every sarcasmic post ever.
I stopped counting at 15 individual comments in the morning links that had nothing to do with you, Jeff or mike.
Sarc, I know Jesse gets under your skin, but goddamn man.
It’s pretty obvious to anyone with a functioning moral compass who is right and who is wrong in your scenario.
This shouldn’t be a serious question on a libertarian site.
“Don’t you dare consider that progressives, at least the people anyway not the politicians, overwhelmingly have good intentions.”
Can I consider that their intentions don’t mean shit, only their actions?
That’s what the expression “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” is all about.
They truly believe that forcing everyone to get vaccinated furthers the greater good. They want to do what’s best for the greatest number of people.
And because they’re so focused on their good intentions they completely ignore all the harm they cause.
Yes that is basically it.
There are a vanishingly small number of people who think about using vaccines as a deliberate act of control over people.
You just said this morning you were fine with employers firing unvaccinated…
That wasn’t this morning. Maybe you need to sober up.
And I am fine with property owners using their property in ways that don’t violate the NAP. Are you?
And I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the major reason why some companies are firing or fining employees who aren’t vaccinated isn’t about control, but cost. Unvaccinated have a much higher likelihood of being a major burden on the company health insurance plan.
Companies that do business with the federal government have to follow federal rules. Right now that means get vaccinated or get fucked.
” Unvaccinated have a much higher likelihood of being a major burden on the company health insurance plan.”
This is batshit insane.
Stop acting like you have any command of the facts when you say completely superstitious shit like this.
For working age people, the expected cost of an unvaccinated person is a rounding error compared to vaccinated people. A ROUNDING ERROR. If you have a person on your payroll who is obese, or has other pre-existing conditions, then COVID probably saves you money on their healthcare costs.
You are not helping, Jeff. You need to get acquainted with facts instead of your (to borrow your phrase) “emoting”.
Jeff has absolutely no intention of becoming acquainted with the facts, Overt. That’s not what he’s paid for. He’s here to shill for the Democrats, end of story. If he ever happens to tell the truth, it’ll be entirely incidental.
For working age people, the expected cost of an unvaccinated person is a rounding error compared to vaccinated people.
Well, you are going to have to show your work on that claim.
And the *point* of my comment, is that there are perfectly valid and neutral reasons for companies to want to insist that their employees get vaccinated, that do not revolve around paranoid fantasies of ‘woke CEOs exerting control just for the sake of control’. But to people like Jesse, he sees no difference between any mandate – all are examples of Democrats imposing tyranny on him.
“And the *point* of my comment,”
I don’t care what your *point* was. You attempted to support your *point* with this statement:
“Unvaccinated have a much higher likelihood of being a major burden on the company health insurance plan.”
This is substantially wrong. In 18 months, around 123,000 working age adults (18 – 64) were hospitalized. That is out of some 200 MILLION working age adults in the country (.06%), or 153 Million actual employed adults (.08%). Let’s say the mean cost of an ICU stay is $43,000 (I did a quick google to find that). The expected burden of an Un-Vaxxed person is $43000 * .08% = $34 over a period of 18 months or annualized, $23.
That is the COVID burden of an Unvaccinated employee. Since we know that even Vaccinated people can end up in the hospital- last I checked around 20% of hospitalizations are breakthrough cases- we can deduce that the net burden of not vaccinating is actually 4/5 of that or ~$18.
That is a rounding error on the average healthcare spending for people 45-64 ($6,406 as of 2014, but that was a quick google). People in the lower brackets 18 – 44 are even less likely to incur expenses, so their net burden is even lower.
So there is my math. Consider that MOST adults will vaccinate willingly. Mandating a vaccination to save $18 on that small percentage of vaccine-hesitant people is DWARFED by the cost of replacing even one of those people who you fire.
Oh, and by the way, let’s assume that we normalize the behavior of companies mandating health choices based on financial cost.
The annual healthcare cost of a person with Type 2 diabetes is 2.3x the cost of a healthy person. It is an annual burden of around $9600. (That’s 533x the burden of unvaccinated employees).
https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/cost-diabetes
If companies really were trying to save costs by mandating health choices, they would be mandating that employees lose weight.
Well thanks for clarifying the math. Yes I was wrong on that specific point. I should have said instead, that an employee being unvaccinated and getting COVID represents a cost burden on the employer, which might include hospitalization, but also includes things like lost time at work, lost productivity, etc. That was the POINT of my entire comment. You chose to find the error in one small detail rather than looking at the larger picture.
If companies really were trying to save costs by mandating health choices, they would be mandating that employees lose weight.
Okay? If a private company wants to mandate their employees lose weight as a condition of employment, that’s their business. Their money, their decision.
Why do you think companies are requiring vaccination? Is it because they are EVIL TYRANNICAL MONSTERS who want to CONTROL PEOPLE????
If a private company wants to go down this path freely (not the case right now), then they have the right to do so. I even go so far as to say they can mandate and discriminate on ANYTHING they want. As an owner of multiple businesses, I look forward to having the option to hire higher quality employees who would have been working for Fortune 500 companies if not for mandates. I think it is a silly mandate for a business to freely impose and they should get punished by the market. I don’t think that will happen as we aren’t really in a free market, but that is a different discussion. Or if the market deems this to be valuable they will be rewarded.
Assuming these businesses are interested in profit and maximizing shareholder value (massive if based on the “we have no responsibility to the shareholder” pledge signed by a couple hundred Fortune 500 CEOs a couple of years ago) then I am sure they have actuaries grinding on these numbers to find out if it is worth the cost. As of right now, they are not even free to make this assessment for themselves since it is being imposed by the government.
This reminds me a lot of a discussion Milton Friedman had on equal pay. Ultimately businesses should be free to exercise their bigotry, but the market should be allowed to punish (or maybe even in some cases reward) that bigotry.
Sarc, I would agree that if a private customer wants to impose certain requirements on their vendor for an order, they have the right to do so. I feel a lot different when it is the government acting as the customer because this then starts verging into fascist territory. And as the government becomes a large part of the economy, it is more widely able to restrict rights through this method.
So do women, lets fire them as well.
You keep saying them when you are part of them.
Talk about me more. Ignore what I said and talk about me.
Lol. Quick to victim mode. Someone is pointing out you’re a hypocrite.
Talk about me more!
What an amazing attention-whore you are, sarcasmic. I honestly don’t think that I’ve ever come across someone as pathetic as you.
Intentions matter when evaluating a person’s moral worth.
“I will force you to take this drug because I believe it is a poison that will kill you” vs. “I will force you to take this drug because I believe it is a medicine that will save your life” are two very different moral statements even if the drug and the level of force are the same.
I hate to pull a Godwin here, but what if you’ve got good intentions and believe in eugenics? Do you still get a moral character pass?
No one gets a “moral character pass”. But in this case I think it is the difference between paternalism and cruelty. Compare: ” I think you are racially inferior therefore I want to murder you” with “I think you are racially inferior therefore I want to protect you like a child “. Both statements are based on a lie but one is much worse than the other, and no one gets a pass for accepting the lie as truth.
Reminds me of a C. S. Lewis quote.
You have no say in my life shithead.
I’m reminded of that C. S. Lewis quote…
The intention of progressives are to torment the rest of us without end. They do so with the conviction that it is for our own good.
progressives, at least the people anyway not the politicians, overwhelmingly have good intentions
You claim you are here to mock both sides, particularly the side in power. You prove yourself to be a just another two-bit shill.
You hate Hate HATE the other political tribe and would love to see them die, and they feel the same way about you.
Hysterical sarc always reveals your hypocrisy. I, like, I am sure, most of the people that post here, work, shop and do all sorts of other things alongside people of every race, creed, color, sexual orientation, and political bent. I get along great with anyone that doesn’t throw shit in my face.
You and jeffy are shit throwers and you get treated accordingly. The biggest shit thrower, SQRLSY, has been mostly chased away by the mute button. Hopefully you get the hint.
You mistake my mocking histrionics for being hysterical.
Nobody’s mistaking anything, asshole.
“I was merely pretending to be retarded, everybody”
Lol, okay champ.
The biggest shit throwers around here are the ones who continually push Team Red propaganda and use every manner of insult to try to shout down anyone who even offers a mild criticism of Team Red. They do nothing but push fear and hate. And you continually stand by their side.
Say anything critical of the right and you’re a full-blown leftist, jeff.
That’s it. You’re on the right or you’re on the left. Choose. Libertarians don’t exist.
You call everyone who disagrees with you trump cultists and right wing still. Lol. God you two hypocrites are so full of shit.
No, actually. I don’t. I call out idiots on both sides.
Cite. Just show it. This morning you jumped on horse deformed pretty fucking fast. Youre such a fucking liar.
You’re the one making the accusation. The burden of proof is on you.
No no, Jesse thinks he is above all that, he doesn’t have to prove anything, because he’s a conservative therefore always right.
Not because he’s a conservative. Because he’s an ass.
You two clowns sealion all day long, and now you’re saying the burden of proof is on Jesse?
Fucking amazing.
You called me a Trump cultist like three weeks ago.
That is not true in my case.
For example I disagree with Overt and soldiermedic on many things but I don’t regard them as Trump cultists.
You however are pretty clearly a Team Red shill.
Lol. “Let me prove you right ” – jeff
You call Ken right wing. Lol.
Ken has made a marked turn towards Team Red.
You call Ken right wing. Lol.
Considering he writes pages and pages about how progressives are evil and Republicans are the only thing that can save the country, calling him right wing is a fair observation.
And you’ve made a marked turn toward the authoritarian hammer and sickle crowd.
Probably because progressives are absolutely fucking evil, and Republicans, greedy idiot clowns that they all are, really are the only thing in any position to save the country.
You have to be a blind moron to look at everything from neo-segregation, to woke math, to late-term abortion and infanticide, to the tranny insanity, to eugenics, to the lockdowns and papiere Bitte that the progs are pushing and say “they’re alright”.
When you’re on the side of fascist slavers, well, fuck you.
Only if you’ve got the mind of a child and consider any criticism of the right to equal support for the left.
That only happens in your mind sarc.
No it happens every day, when you call me, sarc, etc “lefties” for nothing more than criticizing Team Red.
No, Jesse. It happens in the small minds of people who cannot comprehend something other than binary politics. That’s not me.
Both of you retarded shits do nothing but call anyone disagrees with you right wing. See the roundup thread for fucks sake. How do you lie so easily with no guilt?
There are plenty of people I disagree with who I don’t think are right-wing, or trumpbots. Overt and alphabet guy for example. Also, Tony and raspberry. You are just mad because everyone recognizes “I criticized Trump once” doesn’t mean you aren’t a Team Red shill.
I also have plenty of conversations here jeff. You know, when people exchange ideas and stuff without calling names.
I’ve had exactly zero such conversations with JesseAz and his cadre of teenyboppers.
It ain’t me.
I also have plenty of conversations here jeff. You know, when people exchange ideas and stuff without calling names.
No you haven’t. You’re here to troll and suckhole to the fifty-centers. You’ve admitted to as much many before:
sarcasmic
August.12.2021 at 4:45 pm
I only show up to watch the clowns duke it out, while tossing in this or that provocation. Bread and circuses. This is a circus.
Seriously, who do you think that you’re fooling?
What flavor is Joe’s pudding today, you grundle-hunting sycophant?
Also back to mute land, as you have proven again you’re just here to cry and flail in defense of the left.
Now go fuck yourself, you useless drunk.
Last I checked, Team Jojo is not the team of fascist slavers.
You are not anything close to Libertarian, lefty.
Hard luck then, Jeff. I guess that you and your fascist slaver pals will have to find another skinsuit to wear.
The two first shit throwers in the morning thread were you and sarcasmic. Want more links of you two shit throwing? Sarcasmic openly says he does.
Every time you post some garbage from some right-wing demagogic source to stoke fear, you are throwing shit. Which happens every single fucking day.
That’s no more shot throwing than you or the writers linking to the NYT or Vox.
All you do is talk shit about people. I’ve never once seen you reply to me or jeff on the subject of what we said. It’s always about us personally.
I think it’s because you’re mentally incapable of debating a libertarian. I don’t believe you can comprehend what liberty means. All you can see is your side and the left, and the only arguments you have are against leftist policies.
When someone talks libertarian you can’t respond to what they say. So you respond by accusing them of being a leftist and then throwing your practiced anti-leftist arguments at them.
I dare you to respond without a personal attack.
I don’t think you can do it.
This morning roundup thread dumbfuck. You ran away right after. Need the link?
You are so full of shit it is amazing.
Here you go shit head.
https://reason.com/2021/10/01/55-percent-of-police-killings-are-misclassified-as-other-causes-of-death/#comment-9135080
If you call “having a life” “running away” then yeah. Sure.
You ran away like a little drunken bully getting his first smack.
Progressives are not EEEVIL.
Conservatives are not EEEVIL.
Both are broadly well intentioned. Both have terrible methods for wanting to implement their intentions.
At this moment in time I believe conservatives are way more mockworthy. Which you take personally because you are an easily triggered snowflake. But they are not broadly evil. Just silly.
More jeff projection. Lol. Tell is about horse deformers again jeff.
There you go trying to change the subject. I understand why.
All he does is change the subject. To you. Or me. Depending on who he’s trolling.
Just watch and keep that in mind. If he changes the subject to you, point it out.
Also notice that he responds to anything libertarian with accusations of being a leftist followed by well practiced arguments against leftists.
I honestly believe he cannot comprehend anything other than left/right. His politics are two dimensional. Nolan chart? Nolan fart.
Well, Jesse is very obviously NOT a libertarian. He is a more profane and more dishonest version of John. So of course libertarian ideas seem like leftwing heresy to him.
And I have my doubts whether he can keep up with an abstract intellectual conversation. They are all ‘sophistry’ to him. He can’t seem to analyze ideas outside of the current news cycle.
You’re a fucking paid shill, Jeff. You’ve never once told the truth here and you wear sophistry like bike leathers.
The fact that you can try to accuse others of your own modus operandi, is fucking amazing.
Maybe so but it is the moral busybodies and those who claim to know what’s best for the rest of us(progressives) who are the worst of the lot for they do so with the conviction that it is for our own good.
Please tell is about all your enemies and horse dewormer again.
I guess it’s not too early to be drinking heavily, but the projection always is unseasonal.
Looks like another obtuse moron who can’t recognize when a guy who calls himself sarcasmic uses exaggeration and hyperbole to make a point. Must blame it on booze because you’re too fucking stupid to recognize that some people aren’t serious all the time.
You dont make points dummy. As soon as someone points out the idiocy of your hyperbole you either run away or cry like a bitch.
You’ve never made a point. You only talk about people.
Hey more lies.
I can point to the roundup thread. Every morning. In fact the majority of threads until you and Jeff throw shit are discussions.
You two do nothing but throw shit.
*looks around*
The only one throwing shit around here is you.
No, that’s all on you trollboy:
sarcasmic
September.10.2021 at 12:14 pm
I stir shit up. So what.
https://reason.com/2021/09/10/two-big-new-ways-the-biden-administration-plans-to-overstep-its-pandemic-authority/#comment-9095036
Americans are people, and Ken’s line is more like “progressives are America’s worst people”, so neither one of those actually dehumanizes them seeing as how they both acknowledge their personhood.
I question the good intentions. How much of the good intentions is posturing and theatre? Why do the type people who claim that compassionate considerations must trump all others, never extend their compassion to conservatives? It’s all phony.
They moved back.
“…Not much of a difference between tribes within the polls…”
Pick them cherries, asshole.
Also, fuck off and die.
Why only two?
I don’t think that everyone who disagrees with me politically is evil. But I am starting to think that it’s kind of silly to force this country to stay together. Some kind of amicable divorce might be good. Though chances of that happening are probably damn near zero without shit getting ugly.
I’d be happy to see the federal government dissolve. Kinda like what happened to the USSR.
I have a crazy idea:
What if we broke up into 50, maybe even 52, sovereign states that could make they’re own rules within the framework of a larger unifying league of said states.
Then maybe the states could voluntarily join into agreements with other states about the big stuff like mutual defense or trade!
Some kind of amicable divorce might be good.
there’s no need for a divorce.
Just need a return to federalism.
Lol. Still pretending you’re the one true centrist while pushing the golden mean fallacy. Good work sarc.
Do you have anything to say about the article?
Or can you only talk about me?
You run away when your idiocy is discussed. See here:
https://reason.com/2021/10/01/55-percent-of-police-killings-are-misclassified-as-other-causes-of-death/#comment-9135080
Oh, you mean when I closed my computer and got along with my day?
I’m sorry, but my world doesn’t revolve around you.
To answer your questions, I really don’t care. I just thought it was hilarious that he was using temporary psychosis as a defense.
Your world revolves around Jesse. It also revolves around a lot of cheap booze.
Attacking Jesse is his way of getting attention, and when he’s this drunk he’s desperate for it.
I’m willing to let every democrat live in peace. As long as they do the same for everyone else. If not, then their existence is optional. They are not needed.
If that happens, I’m out of Commiefornia.
-jcr
The most important 10 minute video you’ll see this year. Feat Reason’s own Robby Soave.
No more lockdowns, no more masks, no restrictions, no passports, no demonizing the “unvaxxed”, no politics, only science.
“For younger, healthy people, COVID is just the flu… stop running to the hospital”
Pretty sad when Singapore is more free than The Land of the Free.
And with better looking women.
Then girls in southern Red states are pretty hawt too! Then they turn 23 and they balloon up like a beached whale ready to pop.
I’m not sure about that. Especially in the hard core gun community. Those red state flyover shooting-sports women are fit AF.
Spoken like someone who has never been to a red state.
All you said was you’re into young girls from red states. Weird.
Come to Texas. Or just visit one of the naughty Texas subreddits. You’ll change your tune.
This video is really great. It shows just how atypical the United States is. These other countries aren’t fighting a holy war over vaccination- they are encouraging it but not demonizing anyone. They are focusing on hospital capacity and protecting the people who represent 93% of deaths (people over 50).
And most of all, they are trying to combat the total fearmongering out there that has people believing that COVID is a death sentence, rather than a moderate disease for 90%+ of the people who get it.
So doing largely what most red state governors are doing and what even Trump did.
It is weird watching people yell both sides when it is one party pushing vaccine passports, firing employees over vaccination, defriending people on social media for being invaccinated, etc.
“So doing largely what most red state governors are doing and what even Trump did.”
And you’re totally not a Team Red shill.
What is wrong about the statement? Please explain lol. You can’t can you.
You mean, other than the “pimping for Team Red” part?
No, where is it factually incorrect? Just because Trump followed the policy doesn’t automatically make it wrong you ignorant shit.
In his tiny little mind, it is.
Huh I didn’t know you were a Jesse sockpuppet.
So we can all assume that you can’t actually point out where Jesse was factually wrong?
We all knew full well that your a fucking steaming pile of lefty shit
Look at chemjeff deflect. Caught lying again.
The link isn’t a gay porn clip, is it? Asking for Tony.
Fuck Gavin Newsom
“SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Friday announced the nation’s first coronavirus vaccination mandate for schoolchildren, requiring that all elementary through high school students get the shots once the vaccine gains final approval from the U.S. government for different age groups.”
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-education-california-gavin-newsom-575ef3be2c5c2600664fa48c08041abd
Yeah this is such a fucking nut punch.
Kids are not at danger from this virus. Fuck, this disease has killed a total of 15,000 people under 50 in the country. More people died of POISONING in 2019 than that. More people died in accidents.
In the school ages under 30, just about 4000 people have died in the US. That’s less than the number of 15 – 24 year olds who died of unintentional injury. In 2018, 7,000 kids committed suicide.
And yet, despite the tiniest risks, people like Gov Newsance have locked kids in their houses for a year, increasing depression and obesity. When they go to school, they are hassled about wearing masks at all times. And now. NOW, they are going force these kids to stick needles in their arms. Millions upon millions of kids, who are at more risk from the flu or suicide.
Kids are not at danger from this virus. Fuck, this disease has killed a total of 15,000 people under 50 in the country
Did you see that video I posted of the smug youtube comedian interviewing “anti-vaxxers” on the street and got shit on by a rando on the street who was 10x more informed than he and his crew were?
Yes. I loved how the PRODUCER was sitting there for 20 minutes trying her best to find numbers to contradict him. It was fantastic.
Notice that rapid jump between 40 and 50.
No but I’d like to. What thread is that in?
Quicker for me to repost than find the thread. 🙂
Thanks
*Did you see that video I posted of the smug youtube…*
Yes and it was glorious. Thanks for the link.
Stuff like that link are proof that YouTube isn’t all bad.
There’s a lot of worthwhile things to watch on Youtube, even political content that the SJWs who work there haven’t noticed and removed yet.
-jcr
Who was the comedian? Background? Name please
” Fuck, this disease has killed a total of 15,000 people under 50 in the country.”
Correction: 15,000 people under 40. Under 50 is 50,000 (still less than 10% of all deaths. Full numbers:
0-17: 478
18-29: 3,573
30-39: 10,324
40-49: 25,978
50-64: 118,573
65-74: 154,373
75-84: 182,511
85+: 191,362
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
I find it odd and interesting that these age groupings, for adults are all in 10 year cohorts except for 50-64. Is there some legitimate reason for this, or are they just trying to scare 50 year-olds?
It’s called lying with statistics. Sample group parameters are manipulated as needed for desired effect, which is exactly to scare people in their early 50’s.
And until I have access to raw data, and a team of biostatisticians to interpret it, I don’t believe anything coming out of
officialcensored sources any more.Yes
There are actually 4 anomalous groupings- 0 – 17, 18 – 29, 50 – 64 and 85+. Sometimes this is just an artifact of the data they have, or the data visualization program.
65 in government statistics is generally a very important number, because it is the age you get on medicare/ss. The same is true with 18 as a bunch of adult-age policies kick in at that age.
So yes, they could be trying to scare 50 year olds, or it could be that this is just the way to divvy up data so that it is of most use for certain policy prescriptions.
Kids are not at danger from this virus.
You should know by now that it’s not about the children, it’s about exercising power for the sake of power.
And yet we spent all day yesterday with our friends on the left arguing in the Morning Links that this just isn’t so. Go read that thread. Not once do any of them condemn the school mandate- the best you get is a “of course I oppose mandates but…” And the utter rage from JFree- he spent like three posts screaming how useless it is to oppose a mandate on a forum, rather than actually do one post that said something like, “I agree. They have gone too far, and this shouldn’t happen.”
That was all I wanted to do- see if one of them would say something like that. AND NOT A SINGLE ONE COULD DO IT.
They don’t actually oppose the mandate. They agreed with social ostracization and employers firing the unvaccinated. Quiet about vaccine passports.
They will claim they don’t support mandates but advocate for the same outcome.
I genuinely believe that in principle they don’t LIKE mandates. But admiting that their tribe has gone too far is too much to ask.
Or to put it another way, they don’t like mandates, but since they are convinced it is a fuck you to “all the right people” they are willing to give their side a pass. You know just this one time.
And it is nefarious just how bad this is. In reality they are fucking over tons of minorities. But because the Culture Wars have convinced them it is just impacting Deplorables, they are gonna shrug and look the other way.
NO, Overt.
At least from my point of view, it has nothing to do with who in particular is impacted by a vaccine mandate. I have zero desire to “own the cons” with a mandate. That would be just cruel.
The difference is, I just don’t think a vaccine mandate is EEEEEEVIL. I think it is well-intentioned, motivated by a genuine desire to save lives at risk from COVID. They choose the wrong approach to do so though. Principally because it is a violation of the NAP. But in my view they don’t want to do so out of malice or spite ot evil intent. You seem to think that they do, and that is the only real substantive difference here.
Did you read the morning thread you were in halfwit?
“But in my view they don’t want to do so out of malice or spite ot evil intent. You seem to think that they do, and that is the only real substantive difference here.”
First, I’ll point out that no reasonable person would look at your post and consider it anything but excusing these mandates. My point remains the same- you might not support these mandates, but you don’t oppose them. This is yet another post where you soft peddle your criticism. “They chose the wrong approach.”
More importantly, I don’t believe your justification. If you *actually* cared enough about people with a “well-intentioned…desire to save lives at risk”, to give them a pass, then you wouldn’t have posted this:
“In this particular case, the state power is a Stasi-like scheme to get neighbors to rat each other out through the courts. REGARDLESS of the issue, I don’t think any libertarian ought to celebrate such a scheme.”
— https://reason.com/2021/09/21/first-abortion-doc-sued-under-new-texas-law/#comment-9114774
I mean, no one can deny that the INTENT of pro-lifers is to prevent the murder of babies. This isn’t just saving lives from a natural pathogen- it is literally preventing an intentional act that (in the view of the pro-lifers) will cause murder.
But for some reason, you will post DOZENS of times to argue against these people “with good intentions” but you still will not lift a finger to agree with people like myself that this needs to be stopped.
And to be clear, Chemjeff- you are one of the people who can stop this. No Democrat is going to listen to me, or Jesse. The only point where they stop these mandates (which you admit is WRONG- a violation of the NAP) is when other people on the left say, “Woah, wait a minute. This is wrong.”
Yes, asshole. Fuck off and die.
And to follow up, Jeff, this is why I don’t believe you:
https://reason.com/2020/06/30/supreme-court-declares-another-abortion-law-unconstitutional/#comment-8326253
Over a year ago, I said that I mask and vaccinate my kids, but I refuse mandates. Do you remember? I asked you this:
“So what are you going to do when the state tries to require it, as they have in places like california?
Are you going to *correctly* take the libertarian approach and resist such a thing? Or are you going to shrug and go “See guys, I told you” as the State takes away yet one more freedom from us?”
Your response?
“I’ll probably do both.”
But you aren’t doing both. You are offering excuse after excuse for the mandates and the tyrants. You are *not* resisting them at all. Post after post saying how bad Team Red is, but nothing but excuses for Team Blue because they had “good intentions.”
Meanwhile, I am being told that in a couple months when the FDA says “ok”, I have to jab my 8 year old with a needle. She must undergo a medical procedure for a virus that poses less risk to her than walking a couple blocks to school. You are one of the people who MUST stand up, if it will stop, and you are unwilling to do it. You, a self proclaimed libertarian, excuse a horrible invasion of personal privacy and liberty because people you sympathize with have “good intentions”.
Who cares about intentions? The ACLU didn’t when they defended Nazis in Illinois.
I just don’t think a vaccine mandate is EEEEEEVIL.
Usurpation of powers we never granted to our government is evil. Either we have bodily autonomy, or we don’t.
If you allow government to force you to be vaccinated, you have no moral ground to oppose government either forbidding or mandating an abortion, for example.
-jcr
First, I’ll point out that no reasonable person would look at your post and consider it anything but excusing these mandates.
I have not posted a single word in support of a government vaccine mandate. Not. One. Single. Word. I challenge anyone here to try to prove otherwise.
But that is not good enough for you, you are demanding that everyone who opposes the mandate must not merely decline to support them, but be just as emotionally and passionately invested in denouncing them as EVIL TYRANNY as you are. And that is where we disagree. We don’t disagree on the mandate. We only disagree on how strongly we denounce them. I don’t think the people pushing the mandates are, in the main, evil monsters. I don’t think a vaccine mandate represents some unprecedented level of liberty-destroying tyranny in this country – we have had vaccine mandates of various types for over 100 years now and yet the nation persists. You evidently believe otherwise. You evidently think that the struggle against vaccine mandates is as profound from a liberty perspective as the historical struggle against chattel slavery. And I don’t see it in those dramatic of terms.
And I have been forthright with you about what I believe. Now please retract and apologize for your statement above that you think that I support vaccine mandates because you think I am a cruel monster who wants to deliberately punish anti-vaxx conservatives. That is unfair and wrong.
And to be clear, Chemjeff- you are one of the people who can stop this. No Democrat is going to listen to me, or Jesse.
No, they are not going to listen to Jesse. But why wouldn’t they listen to you? They might, if you stop regarding them as evil monsters and start trying to come to an understanding of where they are coming from. I actually had a RL conversation with someone about the vaccine mandate. She was very passionately in favor of it. And it wasn’t because she had some evil desire to control people, it was because she was scared. She was scared of a future where the virus continues to run around, mutating and eventually overwhelming the vaccines, and the pandemic would just go on forever. She saw no other option than the use of force to stop the virus. I tried to explain to her that forcing people to do “the right thing” is a very dangerous game to play leading to all sorts of tyrannical outcomes. But she wasn’t listening because she was motivated not by logical reasoning but by fear. Perhaps we all should recognize that.
And by the way. Congratulations for figuring out that I am not ‘fair and balanced’. I never claimed to be. Yes I am more harsh on Team Red than I am on Team Blue. But being more harsh on one team doesn’t mean support for the other team.
The difference is, I just don’t think a vaccine mandate is EEEEEEVIL.
And you are wrong.
It is an exercise of an evil power that should not be granted to the government.
They disagree with the word mandate because it would expose them. They still want the same outcome.
“They still want the same outcome.”
If by “same outcome” you mean “people not dying needlessly from a disease that is at least somewhat preventable from a vaccine” then yes, guilty as charged, that is what I favor. Don’t you? Do you actually WANT people to die when their lives could have been saved?
But most people AREN’T dying needlessly from covid. Some, to be sure, but not many.
“If by “same outcome” you mean “people not dying needlessly from a disease that is at least somewhat preventable from a vaccine”…”
No, asshole.
DN, let me ask you honestly.
Do you want to see an outcome in which death from COVID is minimal?
I know it doesn’t seem like it, but it already is minimal. Especially so for anyone under the age of 50.
The fact is that vaccinated people are still catching, carrying, and transmitting the virus, albeit more than likely at a lower rate.
More directly, I would welcome less covid deaths. But not at the expense of people’s freedom.
And what conclusions do you draw from that, overt?
See above.
this disease has killed a total of 15,000 people under 50 in the country
I pointed out yesterday that if COVID had come along in 1918, it would have killed very few. Most people died from their first heart attack. Diabetics died in their teens (insulin was first synthesized in 1922). Obesity was rare. The POTUS was an asthmatic and died in office at 60.
The Spanish flu killed over a million healthy people. COVID is a piker.
Great, California kids get to be guinea pigs. I’m all for it since my young relatives don’t live there.
Californians have long been Guinea pigs for many horrible experiments. In the past it’s just been social experimentation, but now that the fucking Democrats have established that they can’t loose elections, they’ve expanded into medical experimentation as well.
And I don’t give a shit if Newsom claims they’re only doing it to 12 and older until the jabs are approved for 5 and up. Show me the studies on long term effects on adults who got jabbed at age 12.
Your children are the study, California voters.
Notice how Newsom waited until after he survived the recall election to announce another unscientific totalitarian left wing policy.
I suspect millions of idiots in CA wouldn’t have voted to keep Newsom had they known this was coming, and I suspect millions more rationale folks in CA will move out of state or remove their children from public schools.
I guarantee you that you are wrong, unfortunately.
One of the Pro-Newsome commercials that I heard daily was, “If the Republicans get in power, they will roll back Mask mandates in our schools, and stand in the way of vaccination mandates.”
That was a selling point!
I don’t think so. Everyone knew this was coming, everyone knew that if he survived the recall that the reprisals would be forthcoming.
No you are wrong. Mandates were essentially what the recall was about and Californians can’t get it hard enough from daddy govt
The governor of Washington did essentially the same thing. Opened the state for business then after he was re-elected closed it down again.
I don’t know why someone hasn’t taken a shot at him.
Children are just clumps of cells. I learned that somewhere.
I thought we were supposed to be fucking Biden. Now I gotta fuck Gavin Newsom too? How much fucking are you expecting us to do here? My dick is getting kinda tired.
Don’t fret, it will fall off soon enough.
Once your dick falls off you can continue to fuck with any item you can fit in your hand.
I suggest a cactus.
The biggest takeaway from this thread chain, thanks for the numbers, is sarc making this a both sides argument while staying away from the actual data.
If you want your business keep open during the lock down you should have been the governer
Mah private winery!
Build your own state assembly.
That month a council member called an “emergency” meeting to try an increase enforcement. She wanted all the restaurants shut down hard (that’s the only reason the police even issued the citation) and even wanted masking outdoors for people walking along the beach.
She claimed her constituents were complaining.
The meeting was marathon. Over 100 people were against the regulations and wanted the restaurants to be left alone. Four spoke for them. After this councilmember was soundly chastised and asked how many constituents she talked to she said something about “well, I saw it on twitter.” Her goal was to try and get in good with the state Democrats so she could go for higher office, but holy shit did she misread that one.
That council member quit a couple months later and moved out of town. Carlsbad is a place where people take care of each other. Everyone knows the cops by sight. The village, where these restaurants are, is fucking Mayberry compared to LA the Bay Area. You don’t fuck with the locals for stupid things.
Well, if the locality won’t hew to the authoritarians, I guess the state will do it for them.
That’s exactly how it works.
This state is a diverse place. But Bay Area progressives and Hollywood have an outsized influence in Sacramento. Especially in the last 10 years as, post 2008, Tech was about the only industry making money outside of Banking and the new election laws have made it so no non D even appears on ballots.
So, OC, the northern San Diego cities, inland areas and, especially, Northern Ca pretty much get steamrolled.
I hope this lawsuit causes trouble. I’m not sanguine, but fuck Newsome and the horse he road in on, man.
I’ve come to the conclusion that this country could use more flyover country.
So, CA falling into the ocean wouldn’t be good?
Can we keep Carlsbad? How would that work? Hmm, I’ll get back to you.
Probably not. It’s only a matter of time, even in the OC and Northern SD beach cities.
Maynard had it right. Learn to swim.
That was about California?
And here I was taking everything metaphorically!
Ok, not everything.
Life feeds on life,
Feeds on life,
Feeds on life
she said something about “well, I saw it on twitter.”
At that point, it’s appropriate to point out to her that twitter is a far-left echo chamber and that she isn’t qualified to run a popsicle stand, let alone hold an elected office.
-jcr
Reason has finally realized the harm caused by Newsom?
Yes, now that he’s safe from the recall.
So help me understand this here:
What’s the polarity of the loyalties, here? I often consider the millennials and zoomer to be the least rebellious generation in history. But then sometime I say to myself, “Well, that doesn’t really align with what we saw in 2020, with the antifa/blm riots– that’s pretty rebellious”.
Then I read the above. And then I think their ‘rebellious’ nature is more nuanced. They’re willing to protest, violently, but their motivations are fundamentally in support of the establishment. In other words, Antifa are black shirts being deployed by the ruling class as little more than street enforcers.
It is pretty weird.
I could be mistaken, but I feel like the anarchist protestors of 20 years ago, while still quite ridiculous and destructive, at least had some actual anti-authoritarian-ness to them.
Nah. They were just commies painted black instead of red.
-jcr
Next you’ll be telling me the FBI was involved in the Capitol riots.
You mean Trump supporters were involved in an FBI Capital riot.
Probably a couple of them, but pretty sure one was murdered by that cop.
I am convinced whoever once ran the anti globalist anti fascist stuff back in the 90s has been supplanted or infiltrated. There was far too much media/government/protester collusion last year. It makes sense for the IC to use a goon squad. Look at the penetration of the 60s radicals throughout government, journalism, and universities.
Yeah, it’s like if they had another WTO protest, it would be full of Trump supporters.
“…They’re willing to protest, violently, but their motivations are fundamentally in support of the establishment…”
Can’t remember the name or the where it was I read it, but it was a woman writer who pointed out that protesters in the ’60s were protesting against government policies, but the current ones are protesting for government policies and against individual decisions.
Progs only question authority when they are not in charge…they have no time for natural rights…only force
Rand Paul licked the shit out of that moron running the HHS. Pointing out the total lack of science in his “mandates” on masks and vaccines..its pathetic we have “experts” whose background is woke gender studies and liberal arts (like many Reason writers it seems). “Flat earters”? Applies not to real engineers and doctors like Tom Massie and Rand Paul but “keynsian economists” pushing their astrology.
This guy Beccara is a moron.
I saw that too. It was great. Sending Rand some money this week.
Newsom’s the worst governor of CA ever. His disdain for the people is almost palpable. Yet he still survived the recall. Was smart enough to paint it as Dem vs. GOP.
That’s the way it works here.
Democrats are as brand conscious as cigarette smokers. Get enough Ds out to the poll and they’ll all vote D regardless of who it is.
The ballot stuffing and voting irregularities exclusively against Republicans didn’t hurt either.
It helps if you have a racist newspaper such as the L.A. Times on your side to label Larry Elder as the black face of white supremacy.
You don’t have rights in a pandemic.
California is poised to impose the country’s first coronavirus vaccine mandate for schoolchildren, a move announced Friday that could push other states to follow as many did after Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered the first statewide stay-at-home order in the U.S. during the early days of the pandemic.
https://worldabcnews.com/california-to-require-covid-19-vaccination-for-schoolchildren-governor-says/
That is likely to happen eventually. Probably next school year at the earliest. The version for ages 5+ is not even approved yet and I don’t expect the FDA to move quickly when children are involved.
Eventually I expect it will just be another routine childhood vaccine.
When the chickenpox vaccine came out in 1995 the first to make a requirement for schools was two years later. It took about 6 years to become universal.
The best response to the question “Are you knowingly going against Gavin Newsom’s orders?” is “Yes, because I don’t work for him, he works for me. Last time I checked, he wasn’t my father either.” These bureaucrats work for us. They were hired to do a job – run their part of the government – not run our lives. We need to fire them all.
Agreed. But, the any replacements would eventually be as bad, without first removing their moral monopoly on force. The govt. has been granted sovereignty, the political power to rule us. That violates our sovereignty. We can’t have both. Sovereign citizens rule over servant politicians/bureaucrats. A sovereign state is a threat to the citizen’s sovereignty.
Of course, without the power to rule over us, we would be actually be free, not like now when slavery is referred to as freedom.
They were hired to run your lives to some extent. That’s why it’s called a government.
What you silly boobs can’t seem to figure out is that every day you insist on not taking hygiene precautions and generally shitting on the idea of personal responsibility during a pandemic, you’re making an argument for why you can’t be left alone to solve social problems.
You fail your philosophy with every hysterical act of defiance against public hygiene. For the life of me I can’t fathom an argument for why you deserve to own guns as well.
That is by far, the worst, most ignorant and totally socialist pile of rubbish ever stated on this web site.
Those in government are not there to “run our lives” after all they can’t even run their own.
Your explanation of government is totally ass backwards and signifies the blinding ignorance and illiterate nonsense you continue exhibit.
The job of the government as instituted by men was to protect our rights…not destroy them.
You need to go back to school.
Going to school won’t help this level of stupidity.
Your girlfriend’s birthday is coming up, but you are one of those who are wondering. Where can I get beautiful birthday messages for my girlfriend in 2021? It has happened to all of us at some point, and I have to tell you that you are in the right place.
Thinking about it, we have made a compilation of some nice birthday phrases for your girlfriend that you can find on the net.
https://bit.ly/3hoSXQ0
You don’t have a right to infect other people with a deadly disease. Fuck your rights you stupid children.
These questions all go away once the emergency is gone, namely, the virus you people keep insisting it’s your God-given entitlement to spread to other people indefinitely with absolutely no responsibility or effort on your part.
There is no political philosophy here. Just childishness and insanity.
Vaccines are awesome. They work, and reduce my risk of this being anything but a mild cold to near zero. Once vaccinated, your real risk is negligible.
I am fully vaccinated and I don’t give a flying fuck if anyone chooses to get the vaccine or not. It does not impact me, and I am not responsible for their health decisions.
You must be a follower of Lenin, Trotsky and Mao.
Or maybe you would prefer Stalin, Pol Pot and Castro.
“You don’t have a right to infect other people with a deadly disease…”
Shitstain here thinks his pathetic fright means he gets to tell me what I can do.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
This is exactly why we have a Constitution. We allow it to be ignored at our own peril. When we fail to hold leaders accountable, they are just as capable of evil as any dictator of the past – Just give them time and they will prove it. Evil, in human nature, is common to mankind, and knows no borders. We are capable of horrible acts if we do not restrain ourselves. It is not just about Newsome; he is only the poster boy for the moment. There is a God, and He can save us from ourselves, and give us real life.
Just as worse, we allowed them to dictate to us how we are to live our lives.
F*** them
To the people of California: You voted for this man. Then you turned around a voted for him a second time, to keep him in office.
You deserve what ever you get. You are responsible for the actions of the person you voted into office and voted for him to remain. You have no one to blame but yourselves for the economic disaster this liberal/marxist/prog inflicted on your state.
Now the lot of you are complaining. Shut up, take your lumps and go home. You voted for a dictator and you got what you wished for,now be quiet.
You have no right to complain.
A lot of people didn’t vote for Gavin Newsom and there are many people who voted to not to recall Gavin Newsom, but dislike him.
Perhaps there is some misguided loyalty to the Authoritarian minded Democrat party or there is a hesitancy to vote for a Republican party candidate who is branded as being despicable.
There does appear to be a divide in California, where the population largely in the cities votes Democrat, but the less populated spaces vote Republican.
My recommendation is to break up all of the States into Counties so people in both areas can choose they level of oppression they want to be inflicted upon themselves and leave everyone else alone.
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