What Happened to the Republican Party?

Former Sen. Jeff Flake discusses how Trump reshaped the GOP, why populism betrayed conservative values, and why he believes the system can still be reformed.

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What Happened to the Republican Party?

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The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie goes deep with the artists, activists, entrepreneurs, policymakers, and visionaries who are making the world more libertarian—or at least more interesting—by challenging worn-out ideas and orthodoxies.

Today's guest is Jeff Flake, former Arizona senator and U.S. ambassador to Turkey, and now head of the brand-new Institute of Politics at Arizona State University. Flake made national headlines in 2017 when he delivered a searing Senate floor speech announcing he would not seek reelection and declaring he would not be complicit in the "degradation of our politics" under Donald Trump and MAGA.

A lifelong conservative, Flake built his career on defending free markets, free trade, limited government, and pro-immigration policies—positions that put him at odds with a Republican Party drifting toward populism and protectionism. We talk about why he chose principle over power (and how he feels about that now), his time representing the U.S. in Turkey as Russia invaded Ukraine, his push for reforming America's broken political system, and why he believes the fever of grievance politics must—and eventually will—break.

 

Past appearances:

"Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) on Immigration, Cuba, and the Future of the Republican Party," July 2011

"Pork Party House: Where DC insiders go for taxpayer-subsidized fun," March 2010

 

0:00—Introduction

1:29—The state of the GOP under President Donald Trump

8:41—Did Flake's conservative principles irritate Trump?

12:14—The case for more immigration

21:27—The connection between immigration and trade

26:25—Globalism in the era of nationalism

34:26—Ambassador to Turkey

38:05—The importance of Ukraine's independence

40:51—The Trump foreign policy philosophy

44:02—Reacting to political violence

47:57—How to reform the political system

58:33—Arizona State Institute of Politics

• Producer: Paul Alexander
• Audio Mixer: Ian Keyser

Comments

[Bubba Jones]

There's nothing conservative about populism.

The GOP is the boomer facebook party.

In January 2017 my dad called to warn me that I should take all my cash out of the bank. Trump was going to arrest all the Hillary supporters on inauguration day and the ATMs would be shut down for a few days.

This is our world now.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Ironically said by a retarded leftist after the million geezer march last weekend.

Were you arrested in 2017 buddy?

This has to be fucking parody.

[Mother's Lament]

You wouldn't know conservatism if it teabagged you, Shrike. Who do you think your kidding.

Anyway, today's conservatism is yesterday's liberalism, that's what conservatism is. Conserving the old liberal paradigms in the face of a new radically fascist progressivism popular amongst the Bobos and Luvvies.

[5.56]

"Shrike"

Holy shit, you guyses mystical sock puppet paranoia is SO cringe.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Well, whoever you faggots are……..

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-services-benefits/medical-assistance-dying.html

[Mother's Lament]

Shrike/Sarc/KAR, it's all the same shit in the same pile. Extreme prog fifty-centers and politruks using an army of socks to troll the comments. Also I take it that 5:56 is another sock of whoever is socking as Bubba Jones. Because individually none of you would care otherwise.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

I've suspected that 5.56 [interesting choice, referencing a caliber] is Rev. Arty. I think he's even used "clingers" a time or two.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

How about "asswipe", asswipe?

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

If it is shrike he should be more worried about his child porn addiction.

[GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND]

Wtf was your dad’s delusional fever dream 8 years ago have to do with anything, retard?

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

That’s about as real as a three dollar bill. Otherwise, nice fiction, bro.

[Chumby]

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[Uilleam]

seconded

[damikesc]

...yet that did not happen.

Weird.

I love Nick trying to clean up the rep of noted fuck-up Flake. Libertarians for war mongers unite!

[mad.casual]

There's nothing conservative about populism.

Only if you oppose democracy.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Believing propaganda meant to gaslit the pubic has nothing to do with being conservative or populism.

Sorry, better luck next time.

[Diarrheality]

Looks like you got pwned. Better luck next time, chump.

[Ron]

the GOP left conservatism along time ago, they were war mongers and barely protect any of our rights. Is Trump conservative no but he was teh better answer and i hope we someday return to true conservatism

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

He’s giving us an opportunity to get rid of the Marxists. We had best not squander this opportunity.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Note: "38:05—The importance of Ukraine's independence"

Conservatism; all about getting involved in other's wars!

[Dillinger]

whaddya mean? it's the same conga line of establishment ruling class assholes it's been since (within my life) 1976 when they ran Reagan off for Ford ... Ted Cruz is alright

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Lol!

Jeff Flake. Never found a principle he wouldn't break if the democrats wanted him to break it.

[I, Woodchipper]

^ This. Jeff Flake of all people criticizing maga for not being conservative enough. lol that fucking guy lives up to his name more perfectly than Anthony Weiner

[Mother's Lament]

It's his gimmick to continue his grift. David French plays that game too.

They play "The Principled Conservative" for speaking fees, and interviews and handshakes and backpats at the club, and their role is to bemoan to rooms full of progressives how "True Conservatism" (which just happened to line up with whatever the room believes in) was abandoned. And also how their old party was taken over by [current bogeyman here] extremism.

[damikesc]

I remember him caving on Kavanaugh because a leftie activist accosted him in an elevator. A modern-day profile in courage.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

I recall that he was aptly named.

[HorseConch]

The guys like him made long careers pre-Trump. Trump exposed them to their voters, and most of them retired in lieu of getting primaried into oblivion.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Exactly. But the truth doesn't make for much a story does it?

[Incunabulum]

Flake principally defended his principles in face of his increasing unpopularity on AZ and the almost guaranteed defeat he faced.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

What’s happened is Republicans like Flake were willing, in the spirit of Bipartisanship, to defer to any and all Progressive outrages rather than mount a true effective opposition, to the point where we almost lost not only our Constitution and our country, but our very civilization.

Trump is a 1980s-1990s Democrat who recognized the threat, as did many slightly left of center figures such as Musk and Rogan, who banded together with the Republican voting base -sick of their “leadership” bowing out in gentlemanly fashion from any fight with the barbarian Left- to rescue the US at the eleventh hour from becoming like the illiberal dhimmi states of Western Europe.

We can go back to arguing about our precious norms and estate tax rates once the woke mind virus is completely expunged from polite society

[Deelerious]

100% spot on.

[Mike Parsons]

"Republicans like Flake were willing, in the spirit of Bipartisanship, to defer to any and all Progressive outrages rather than mount a true effective opposition, to the point where we almost lost not only our Constitution and our country"

Good summary. The progressives went full retard and shoved the overton window futher to the left than any of us could have imagined, and the R's thought they could play along and keep the agreement going that "OK you can have the culture if we can keep bombing shit and maybe have some tax cuts" and the base said the fuck we arent giving up the culture, telling our white kids they are inherently bad and ladys have dicks.

The GOPe hasn't represented the base in a long time, and essentially working class R's as well as former working class D's have had enough of the globohomo corpo pedo cult.

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

Bingo.

[Juliana Frink]

Exactly Spot On! Outta the park Home Run!

[damikesc]

Exactly. Guys like Flake always said "This is not the hill to die on", ignoring that such a hill did not exist for them.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Well put.

Nothing is as it was; to save "conservatism" for the sake of the bullshit it was a generation ago is nothing more than longing for what never was. Meanwhile, Democrats have embraced nothing short of a draconian view of what they want this country to be, in the name of "saving Democracy" [yes, I capitalized it].

[Dillinger]

ya I like this.

[Uilleam]

Excellent

[Diarrheality]

Couldn't agree more.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Trump fundraising for Lindsey Graham and disses Rand Paul. Sounds like the same old GOP. Warmongers going to warmonger.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Trump has ended wars and reduced death, crime and overall violence.

TDS much?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Which American endless wars did he end? And Venezuela?

[Mickey Rat]

The GOP abandoned conservatives when they nominated McCain and when they nominated the worst candidate to run against Obama in the wake of the ACA in Romney.

[MasterThief]

I sat it out in 2016 because Trump looked like a further progression of that trend. He got my vote in '20 and '24 because while he isn't conservative or libertarian at least he actually is turning back and gaining ground against the left. It's up to conservatives and libertarians to take that and actually drive the country in the right direction. Stopping the rapid advance of the marxists, globalists, and warmongers is a feat in itself. Trump should be thanked and then told others will cement the wins and turn back the tide of progressivism.

[Marshal]

I don't think that was the turning point. If you recall the 2016 primary we saw the normal process where every viable candidate rotated through the "Jeb Alternative" position until he said something voters didn't like. Inevitably it was immigration. Every one of candidates signed on to the Dems Amnesty & Open Borders plan and was summarily rejected. Trump was running at an also-ran level at that point but he recognized the opportunity and gathered everyone as the only credible candidate opposing mass illegal migration.

I still remember the picture of Schumer smiling behind Marco Rubio as the latter ended his candidacy by announcing his support for the Dem plan. He was the last GOP opportunity to stand with the Party on immigration and Dems thought after they shived Rubio they were going to win forever.

The GOP failed when they came to believe they didn't need to appeal to voters, which somewhat amusingly is the same problem Dems have now.

[Social Justice is neither]

Can't wait for the "what happened to Democrats" follow up where you do a deep dive on the Marxist infiltration, racial politics and gender ideology insanity...won't happen because your writings show you find all of that perfectly fine and agree with their goal of destroying Western civilization.

[GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND]

Gillespie will be long gone before the circle comes back around and Muslims go after weed and buttsex so he doesn’t care about any of that.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Reliable sources tell me that many Middle Easters like butt sex, but just on the sly; something along the lines of "girls are for babies, boys are for fun."

[Rubbish!]

There werent enough conservatives to win elections. That seemed to suit conservatives and Democrats just fine. Now the GOP after taking a populist turn has the White House and majorities in both houses. How could that possibly happen without the support of conservatives like Jeff Flake and Nick's open borders/globalist ideas? Millions of former D's now vote R in part because the warmongers and open borders freaks are not calling the shots any more and in part because the D's went even further batshit crazy.

[Mother's Lament]

Jeff flake talking about preserving "conservative values" is top-tier AAA+ concern trolling.

As if the neo-com project, eternal war, the NGO grift cycle and funding international conglomerates and corporations to create stuff to sell back to us for a heavy profit, was somehow conservative.

Also, in the last 50 years, the term populism has too often been twisted into a sneer rather than a description by men like Flake. Those who use it as a slur do so to belittle the legitimate voice of the electorate, as though the broad concerns of ordinary citizens were somehow less valid than the preferences of they hold.

Flake's dismissiveness reveals a deep-seated aristocratic elitism that shares more with oligarchy than with democracy.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

The only conservatives who care what Flake thinks already read the bulwark and David French, while voting for democrats.

[Juliana Frink]

"Those who use [the term populism] as a slur do so to belittle the legitimate voice of the electorate..."

Absolutely. It's pretty damned easy to spot the elitist pigs by the sneers they use to dismiss the concerns of those they wish to control.

"Flake's dismissiveness reveals a deep-seated aristocratic elitism that shares more with oligarchy than with democracy."

Perfect summary.

[Chumby]

Team R is moving on from Dole, McCain, and Romney types.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Thankfully, it should have happened sooner with the Tea Party.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

A more relevant question is what happened to the Democrat party that they embraced DEI/CRT racism, woke racist identity politics, and decided that teachers were more qualified to take care of children than parents. Why do they applaud cold-blooded assassinations, and politicians who daydream out loud of killing politicians' children?

For all his faults, Trump is only 1% as deranged as the DNC, and it was the Democrats who lied for four years about Biden's competency as President.

[Juliana Frink]

"For all his faults, Trump is only 1% as deranged as the DNC..."

Yes! Now there's some PERSPECTIVE, especially coming from someone who often criticizes Trump.

[Rick James]

I was going to come in here and ask this exact same question but I needed to frame it in a way that didn't make me sound like, "Bbbbut Democrats!"

But regardless, it had to be said. I mean, Nick is on record agreeing that "The Democratic Party is where Libertarians need to be right now", so it's not surprising that after ten years (I like to use 2015 as the eruption of the Woke Infection) we haven't gotten that article is incredibly telling.

It's not that I'm offended by "What happened to the GOP", it's a legitimate question. I mean, one can go on and on about how the GOP sold the country down the river to the left, completely ignoring the racism, the volumetric expansion of the welfare system, several unnecessary wars, crushing taxation and regulation, retarded environmental regulations, $22 minimum wages resulting in "wha happa" when everything gets retarded-expensive-- there's a lot to complain about with the GOP. But for there to be no, "What in the blazing fuck happened to the Democrats" companion article that should have appeared somewhere in the last 10 years in this magazine is a laugh riot.

[Liberty_Belle]

Trump is the worst thing to happen to the party. He manages to be neither conservative, liberal, principled, nor freedom-loving. In any decent conservative party he would have been banished to the island of misfit toys politicians with Prince Andrew and the other Epstein bunch.

How you people continue to glaze this man , is beyond comprehension.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

It's simple -- politics is relative. When the DNC hides Joe Biden's corruption by impeaching Trump for trying to uncover the corruption, hides Joe Biden's senility for four years, anoints Kamala Harris without her ever getting a single primary vote, supports a terrorist-loving socialist for NYC mayor, thinks Queers for Palestine makes any sense, laughs about assassinations by wokies, refuses to condemn a candidate who daydreams about killing his opponent's children ...

How about you get your straw house in order before complaining that the neighboring cardboard house is too flimsy?

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Why don't you start by dropping the bullshit labels? No one gave a flying fuck about the majority of the electorate from any of these parties, and Trump rolled in a defied all of the crap that everyone previously thought meant something. We needed a reset, or two or three...sure he's an asshole and a very blunt instrument, but enough already; no one else could have accomplished what he has. It had to happen.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Unlike you we are not delusional fools. You typically answer your own questions in your posts but are too stupid to realize it.

[GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND]

Well, both Flake and Reason participated in the ridiculous slander against Kavanaugh, so it figures that’s who they’d use to concern troll.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

If Nick is going to concern troll, his efforts would have been better spent trying to figure out where all of the libertarians at Reason went. Because there sure aren’t any now.

[Juliana Frink]

They all sold out. Like Flake.

[shrike]

A lifelong conservative, Flake built his career on defending free markets, free trade, limited government, and pro-immigration policies

In short, a Never-Trumper.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

No Kiddie Raper, Flake built his career on paying lip service to those ideals, while continually betraying America to the democrats.

[GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND]

You like him because he was pro-war.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.

[Chumby]

https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#aversion-therapy

[Rick James]

A lifelong conservative, Flake built his career on defending free markets, free trade, limited government, and pro-immigration policies

Pro-immigration is not a 'conservative' policy or principle. It's a lower-case-l liberal policy. It can be defined as a 'classically liberal' policy. And there's absolutely nothing about being pro-immigration while agreeing-to-disagree on welfare and handing out billions in welfare and free healthcare to said immigrants.

Nick, you interviewed Lionel Shriver the other day, I didn't listen to your interview with her, did you bring up immigration? It's kind of her #1 issue.

[MasterThief]

I've never seen Flake express conservative principles. He's a globalist with left sensibilities who claims to want less spending.
This magazine does not understand the right at all.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Globalists branded their beliefs well by calling it a free market.

[Juliana Frink]

Globalism taken to its logical outcome is pure Global Fascism.

Scratch a Progressive and you will find a Globalist. Scratch a Globalist and you will find a Fascist.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Notice that what flake calls free market was never actually free market. The bills he voted in favor of were globalist schemes trade deals requiring caps, tariffs, regulations, investments, etc. It was a designed market, not a free one. But since it was called free he was for it. Many posters here also fell for the marketing without ever investigating their claims.

[Rick James]

And there's absolutely nothing about being pro-immigration

Was supposed to read "absolutely nothing conservative about being pro-immigration"

[mad.casual]

It's a lower-case-l liberal policy.

And even then, it's a lower-case-l liberal policy when you either carved your home out of the unsettled wilderness or learned a trade under a master and then went out and literally or effectively indentured yourself.

Not used your Obama phone to call an Uber to take you to the grocery store so you can use your EBT card to pay for the stuff you can't have Doordashed.

Even classic lower-case-l liberals weren't unclear that Highwaymen weren't (just) immigrants.

[shrike]

What happened to the GOP?

It started with the Bushpigs.

Big Government, wars, surveillance state, trillion dollar deficits, "compassionate conservatism" it was called. Everyone in the GOP loved Bush/Cheney. But the people didn't. Then there was the financial collapse of 2007-08.

Bush left DC with a 22% approval rating.

Now it is worse.

Oh, and people hate immigrants.

Enter Fatass.

[Chumby]

https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#aversion-therapy

[GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND]

Funny you bring up the bushpigs while defending the guy that voted for all the military engagements in the ME.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND]

Once again Nick shows Reason is more concerned with open borders than war and property rights:

Waters of the United States
Both federal water regulations and the EPA are unconstitutional. If the rule were allowed to stand, activities such as farming and real estate development would be greatly hampered, since farmers and developers would be subject to increased unconstitutional permit requirements and fines concerning their treatment of almost any body of water, no matter how small.

Vote: No

Affected me directly with 2 spring fed ponds on my property. Gfys Nick.

[Rick James]

For those curious about what happened to the political spectrum starting in around 2012-2015, this nice little Colin Wright diagram explains it nicely.

It's one of the central things that Nick doesn't seem to get, or is actively ignoring.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Thanks for that diagram!

Meanwhile the proggies must be hosting all of the desirable cocktail parties because our erstwhile journos are so averse to dissing them. I do wonder just what club it is that they are so afraid of being kicked out of?

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

It’s been amended to show the progressive in a prone position further to the left with a sniper rifle

[mad.casual]

What Happened to the Republican Party?

Fucking LOL! Yeah. The GOP really needs some pointers from the Justin Amash/Jeff Flake/Jared Polis/Chase Oliver/Bill Weld Clusterfuck Party! ROFLMAO!

[Quo Usque Tandem]

And what's Bill Kristol, chopped liver with a side of sneer?

[Neutral not Neutered]

He wishes he was the famous actor of the same name, different spelling, and not the hypocritical talking head looking for work that he is.

[Bob of Nazareth, PA]

Better question, what happened to Nick Gillespie?

[TJJ2000]

What Happened to the Republican Party?

It started acting like conservatives (limited/cutting government) instead of sponsoring a bunch of RINOS (fake conservatives) that was, past-tense more-so, indistinguishable from treasonous [D] [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s].

But the faithful [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] will attack-it now MORE than ever before precisely because it is finally making an effort to LIMIT the Nazi-Empire government.

[Rick James]

Here's one conservative's view on Jeff Flake... from seven years ago.

[Marshal]

Any explanation that doesn't begin "we were completely ineffective at stopping the race to the left" is worthless ass-covering.

[Marshal]

he believes the fever of grievance politics must—and eventually will—break.

Whoops, we found the problem. Opposing governance run for the benefit of Dem supporting constituencies which requires the rest of us to pay for them (both in cash and in other penalties like race preferences in hiring and school admissions) isn't "grievance politics" and anyone who claims so deserves to be put out to pasture.

[Uncle Jay]

What happened to the republican party?
It became the "Me Too" party after FDR won in a landslide in 1932.
Then real conservatives started to infiltrate the party around 1960 challenging the establishment GOP members.
Right now, you have fake conservatives in the GOP, called RINOs (republican in name only), who become the puppets of the democrats, and real conservatives like Reagan and Trump.
The same can be said of the democrats.
Most democrats were once considered somewhat conservative until the racist progressive Woodrow Wilson showed up. Then life got worse as did the democrats' ideology of Big Government as a cure for all economic and societal issues. This idea continued under the warmonger LBJ and got worse ever since.
Now the democrats come into two garden types.
One is somewhat moderate, and the other a full-fledged communist nut case who hates the US, capitalism, and embraces totalitarian ideals as their heroes Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and Mao did.
It really comes down who you want in office: The sane or the insane who want to enslave you.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

As I commented earlier, they can have what they vote for, good and hard.

[JFree]

What Happened to the Republican Party?

They got a sustainable taste of power in 1994 - and chose to become as corrupt and useless as they could possibly be. Gingrich's win was huge - breaking the New Deal coalition, cementing the transition of R's by the Southern strategy, and creating a generational transition away from the naturally cross-partisan WW2 generation. Fox/radio provided the way for them to bypass traditional media. R's have accomplished nothing valuable with those decades and they will achieve nothing valuable in future. They no longer even have a remnant of the ideas that enabled them to make their case for power back then.

The only thing keeping the R's going is the total vacuum of the D's. Generationally dead. Controlled by either the donor class, Henry Wallace's bastards, or bureaucrats.

R's can't change. D's won't change. Not a bright future America.

[Kungpowderfinger]

Fucking Jeff Flake, the poster child for Controlled Opposition.