Debating the Science and Ethics of IVF: Emma Waters vs. Ruxandra Teslo

A genomics PhD and conservative bioethicist debate the ethics of in vitro fertilization and discuss recent scientific advancements in reproductive medicine.

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Debating the Science and Ethics of IVF: Emma Waters vs. Ruxandra Teslo

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How should the government treat in vitro fertilization (IVF)? Should they regulate it more? Should they subsidize it? Just asking questions. 

The above are all questions that the Trump administration is actively considering in the wake of an executive order seeking to expand access to IVF. President Donald Trump previously declared himself "the fertilization president" while speaking at a women's conference.

Today's guests have thought about a lot about reproductive technology, birth rates, and family policy, each arriving at some very different conclusions at times. Ruxandra Teslo is a genomics Ph.D. student at the University of Cambridge and writes often about fertility and technology at Ruxandra's Substack. Emma Waters is a reproductive technology and bioethics policy analyst at The Heritage Foundation. In this discussion, they debate the ethics of in vitro fertilization, discuss recent scientific advancements such as the ability to create eggs from other types of cells and three-parent embryos, and the emerging market in "embryo selection" that allows parents to choose between embryos with different genetic traits. 

Mentioned in this podcast:

1. Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Expands Access to In Vitro Fertilization (IVF)
2. "Total U.S. fertility rate: births per woman," by Our World in Data.
3. "Fertility on demand," by Ruxandra Teslo.
4. "Gameto Announces World's First Live Birth Using Fertilo Procedure that Matures Eggs Outside the Body," by Gameto.

Chapters

• 00:00 Podcast theme
• 00:28 Introduction and IVF Policy Context
• 01:49 IVF as a Solution for Ambitious Women
• 05:21 IVF Critiqued for Ignoring Root Causes
• 08:59 A Rebuttal: IVF Still Has Value Despite Limits
• 13:33 Egg Freezing: When, How, and Why It Works
• 17:18 The Motherhood Penalty in High-Pressure Careers
• 20:38 Reframing Motherhood as a Gift, Not a Penalty
• 24:27 Parenthood's Transformative Impact
• 27:23 Supporting Fertility Into the Late 30s
• 31:47 Income, Incentives, and Family Wealth Dynamics
• 34:48 Is IVF Reliable Enough to Justify Delaying Kids?
• 38:48 Innovations in Fertility and IVF Technologies
• 41:54 Raising Ethical Concerns About Future Reproductive Tech
• 44:35 Does Selection Technology Devalue Life?
• 48:21 IVF, Embryo Selection, and Suffering
• 50:52 Selection Ethics: Miscarriage vs Discarding Embryos
• 56:20 Grappling with the Moral Weight of Miscarriage
• 1:00:06 The Core Disagreement: What Is a Human Embryo?
• 1:06:45 IVF, Ethics, and the Boundaries of Human Life
• 1:10:31 Can IVF Be Practiced Without Destroying Embryos?
• 1:21:10 A Life-Affirming Model for IVF Treatment
• 1:24:56 Cultural Shifts and Valuing All Stages of Life
• 1:26:35 Fertility Policy: Subsidies, Research, and Cultural Norms

• Producer: John Osterhoudt

Comments

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

Kilmar Abrego MS-13 returned to the US , to be tried for Human Trafficking

[Don't look at me! (The bromance is over)]

Finally, due process!

[Gaear Grimsrud]

This was never going to end well. Saved from persecution in El Salvador only to end up spending a decade in a federal penitentiary and facing deportation when he gets out.

[MasterThief]

A bunch of wasted taxpayer resources for a piece of shit foreign national

[Ersatz]

unless the dems get into power before his sentence is served.
if they get in he’ll be pardoned and given a parade

[mad.casual]

Edward Snowden says “Hi!”

[VULGAR MADMAN]

The left was briefly orgasmic over that fertility clinic bombing.
Then they finally figured out that abortion has nothing to do with fertility.

[5.56]

Infertile, inviable, unselected right-wing dead ends of evolution are among my favorite complainants in reproductive matters.

[Rick James]

The above are all questions that the Trump administration is actively considering in the wake of an executive order seeking to expand access to IVF.

Will we see progressive feminists rail against expanding access to IVF now that the left are a death cult? It’ll be interesting to see…

[mad.casual]

It’s interesting to see two women debate the topic of IVF in the modern framing of “reproductive medicine” and “reproductive rights”. Especially given the inventors of hormonal contraception, IVF, and emergency contraception.

If you were the paranoid type, you might get the impression that some people have been elbowed away from the seat at the table or are being erased. If you were the type that acknowledges long-standing, relatively immutable facts and economics, this might give the impression of a debate between two fish about how best to swim upstream or which My Little Pony is the best pony.

[MWAocdoc]

No the government should not regulate it; and no the government should not subsidize it. Can the Wuhan Virology Lab create a virus that makes only US government officials sick? Please?

[AT]

How should the government treat in vitro fertilization (IVF)?

Not an issue. Unless they start disposing of tiny humans once they’re no longer needed. In which case, throw the IVF people and the parents of said discarded tiny humans in jail forever. Also, any LGBT Pedo who abuses this technology (or, for that matter, surrogacy) for their own kink-based sexual depravity.

And not like country club jail. We make a very special CECOT-type place for those absolute scumbags. Not even a jail. An oubliette.

[mad.casual]

Analogously: Can IVF Be Practiced Without Destroying Embryos?

Immaterial. Can IVF be practiced to progressively bring the fullest number (~100%) of embryos to full-term and beyond possible? Always. Should people who knowingly, negligently, and/or wastefully discard extra or unused embryos be treated as though they were destroying a human life and/or someone’s reproductive abilities? Probably. I can’t fathom why people would attempt to falsely impugn people like “The Uterus Collector” (as such) otherwise.

[bye]

IVF is immoral.
https://ruthinstitute.org/tag/in-vitro-fertilization/
That bit about the masturbation of the father for sperm is in itself rather disgusting, I saw it turn my brother-in-law into something monstrous. Now he dresses up in women’s clothes. had no problems until those IVF visits.

One man (not a trans) and one woman (not a trans) in a committed relationship. Broken homes are anecdotally and scientifically the main cause of societal decline. And government is the chief destroyer — to get back to the topic— who can forget super-liberal Sen Moynihan

The steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States.

Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

[Bubba Jones]

The two least persuasive people on the planet.

Any PhD student.

Anyone currently at the Heritage Foundation.

Were no serious people available?

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

There was an illegal chicana, but she already had 13 kids from 10 men, so not really the best choice for an ivf discussion

[mad.casual]

Were no serious people available?

This is Reason and modern, leftist progressivism as foregone conclusion. You start with “Men should have no say in reproduction.” and “2 men = 1 man + 1 woman” as premise and go downhill from there.