Jason Furman: Why Everyone Is Wrong About the Economy

Former Obama administration economic adviser Jason Furman explains why both major parties have abandoned economic reality in favor of political fantasy.

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Jason Furman: Why Everyone Is Wrong About the Economy

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Today's guest is Harvard economist Jason Furman, who was one of former President Barack Obama's chief economic advisers and an architect of the Affordable Care Act. These days, he's in the news for his withering critique of former President Joe Biden's dismal economic record and two-fisted attacks on President Donald Trump's trade policy. We talk about Furman's defense of global markets, Obamacare's unfulfilled promises, and why he now thinks the national debt and AI are bigger deals than he used to believe.

0:48— Failure of Bidenomics & the 'neoliberal delusion'
6:00— The neoliberal coalition breakdown
9:37— Trump's post-neoliberal economics
13:08— Biden's biggest economic failures
16:25— Why 'free money' is a bad thing
18:28— The Age of No Accountability
20:19— Why tariffs make no sense
23:52— How Furman 'zigzagged' on debt
29:42— How to get politicians to take the debt seriously
36:32— How to fix social security and Medicare
39:58— Has Furman changed his mind about Keynesian economics?
43:10— Furman's background and the future of Economics
46:50— Furman's outlook on AI
50:16— The Luddite impulse towards technological advancement

Today's sponsor:

• The Reason Speakeasy. The Reason Speakeasy is a monthly unscripted conversation in New York City with outspoken defenders of free thinking and heterodoxy in an age of intellectual conformity and groupthink. It doubles as a live taping of The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie. The next one is Tuesday, May 6, and features investor and Open To Debate founder Robert Rosenkranz, author of The Stoic Capitalist: Advice for the Exceptionally Ambitious. Go here to buy tickets and go here to http://https//opentodebate.orgsign up for Reason's NYC Events newsletter.

Photo credits: CNP/AdMedia/Newscom, Andrew Leyden/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom, KEVIN DIETSCH/UPI/Newscom

• Video Editor: Ian Keyser

Comments

[Stuck in California]

Today's guest is Harvard economist Jason Furman, who was one of former President Barack Obama's chief economic advisers and an architect of the Affordable Care Act.

Yup, there's libertarian credentials if I've ever seen them.

Let me know if I missed anything. Not gonna' spend the time to listen.

[damikesc]

I often want to hear the advice of a guy who created an economic boondoggle unmatched in recent history.

And, agreed --- nice libertarianism here. Really. I bet Polis would do another interview if y'all promise to fawn enough.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

The Kushner family is heavily invested in the Obamacare Exchange subsidies…once Trump beat Cruz in 2016 I knew Obamacare was here to stay!! I loved President Kushner!!

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Well, given that you are a brain-dead pile of lying lefty shit, this is not surprising.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Did you vote for President Kushner?? That means you support Obamacare…I mean Kushnercare!! lol!!

[Strawmancasmic, Town Drunk and Gay for Booze]

Have you even TRIED killing yourself?

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

..who was one of former President Barack Obama's chief economic advisers and an architect of the Affordable Care Act.

Disqualified.

[Strawmancasmic, Town Drunk and Gay for Booze]

This article should be an April Fool’s parody.

[MWAocdoc]

"why both major parties have abandoned economic reality in favor of political fantasy"

Because "experts" like Jason Furman told them to and validated their political fantasies? Folks, you just can't make this stuff up! I wish we had a "disgusted" emoji ...

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

No one more libertarian than Jason Furman.

Anyway:

Furman is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Group of Thirty and the Aspen Economic Strategy Group. He also serves as a Trustee of the Russell Sage Foundation and on the advisory boards for the Brookings Papers on Economic Activity, the Bund Summit, the Hamilton Project and the Washington Center for Equitable Growth

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Omg, is he a member of the Pentaverate with Colonel Sanders??

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Omg; you're a lefty ass-wipe! Fuck off and die.

[Nelson]

The first five comments are from people who claim what he said is wrong without ever listening to it (and bragging about dismissing without listening).

Gee, I wonder why partisans can get away with so much economically illiterate policies without getting criticism from their supporters.

No, I don’t.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

I didn't listen to it. Don't have the time or the inclination. But I'm guessing he says taxes are too low and we didn't ObamaCare hard enough. Same ol' shit.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

No they don't. All five disparage his credentials. They expressly do not say he is wrong. They say they won't listen to someone with such statist credentials, because he has no libertarian credentials.

Note here that I am explicitly saying that you are wrong. I am not saying you don't have libertarian credentials. I am saying, quote, unquote, "you are wrong."

[Strawmancasmic, Town Drunk and Gay for Booze]

Why would I waste my time with economic idiocy from a leftist?

[Rick James]

Politician: I'm going to raise the cost of doing business by 47% and this will go into effect on Wednesday.

Reason: Is it via a tariff?

Politician: Why does that matter?

Reason: Because tariffs are a bummer head trip

Politician: And if it's not via a tariff?

Reason: Will complaining about it make us look like a Republican?

Politician: Yes.

Reason: Go for it.

[MasterThief]

It's kinda crazy that Nick feels the need to platform a socialist on a libertarian platform. Does he really think there is any shortage of that in media or that he is interrogating the ideas in a way that people don't see? What a joke.

[MasterThief]

Can anyone listen to this and report back? I'm not so much interested in what the guy says as I want to know if Gillespie truly counters his stupid assertions

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

He’s a neoliberal…I think they agree on everything. Remember when you voted for Bush who was making China great again?? That was weird, right??

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

You're a brain-dead pile of lying lefty shit. Fuck off and die, asshole.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

7000 new crosses in Arlington Cemetery thanks to your votes for Bush/Cheney…it needed some more crosses to be honest. 😉

[Strawmancasmic, Town Drunk and Gay for Booze]

Really? You got a cite for that? Also, what about the service members both Obama and Biden murdered?

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Obama’s two biggest mistakes were appointing the Bush Republicans Gates and Comey. Obama deferred to Bush and Gates and Republican voters on Afghanistan and it was a huge mistake. So 800 soldiers died per year for 4 years under Bush and when Obama handed everything off to Trump he had it down to around 15 a year which Trump maintained. More than 20 soldiers have died in accidents in Trump’s first 2 months in office. Biden got it down to an average of 5 hostile deaths a year…hopefully Trump can get it to zero this time.

[Strawmancasmic, Town Drunk and Gay for Booze]

I’m kit talking about accidents, I’m taking about the ones they murdered.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Trump murdered 60 soldiers…triple the number you believe Biden murdered.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"Today's guest is Harvard economist Jason Furman, who was one of former President Barack Obama's chief economic advisers and an architect of the Affordable Care Act."

Why didn't you interview FDR's advisor on S/S, steaming pile of TDS-addled shit?

[JFree]

This guy makes the same mistake as all economists distinguishing 'public' v 'private' debt. Obviously the decision-making is different but how many times has private debt gotten bailed out by the public by private sector creating a crisis and then an extortion demand. That's not going to stop happening as long as we keep ignoring the possibility in our public decisions re debt. And all debt is fungible and 'money' and originates in the same place and the public debt is what is the base collateral of all private lending.

Distinguishing the irrelevant means ignoring the important. Debt in the US today is no longer productive and hasn't been productive for decades. We incur debt for different reasons now than we did when debt was productive in both the public and private sectors. Unproductive debt is simply transferring income/wealth from Main St to Wall St rather than creating wealth. It's easy to show that decline in 'marginal productivity of debt' over time. When we keep doing the same shit all the time, we turn into a financialized economy with asset bubbles and Ponzi crises.

Even worse for the US when our total debt and the cost of money is mostly based on the dollar getting a permanent bid as reserve currency based on ever increasing globalization. Rather than viewing 'globalization' as more of a cyclical thing.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Trump added $8 trillion to the debt…so people could drink and smoke and not work. Duuuuuuuuh

[LIBtranslator]

Gin and cigarettes are the only things God's Own Prohibitionists struggled and failed to make permanently illegal. Once gin was made a shoot-first felony, they set sights on cigarettes but failed on both counts. Terrified tobacco and alcohol interests bought up the entire Congress and now use those worthies to ban harmless, non-toxic and non-addictive competitors if it requires shooting down civilians by the tens of thousands Stateside and starting additional wars abroad.

[JFree]

The actual GDP in 1Q 2017 was $19 trillion
The actual GDP in 1Q 2021 was $22 trillion

IOW - we increased PUBLIC debt by $8 trillion in order to increase our ability to pay that (and all other) debt by $3 trillion. That other debt increase (household and non-financial corporate) was $6.5 trillion. That's very unproductive. If those four years of incremental debt ($14.5 trillion) cost us $2.5 trillion in interest, then 5/6 of the total $3 trillion growth simply went to paying interest on the debt - with zero set aside for amortizing the debt and paying it off. What it really means is that money is simply going to Wall St and creating asset bubbles and inflation (embedded in those asset prices) - with more crisis guaranteed in the future when asset bubbles pop.

You think Biden is better? You're wrong. We haven't had multiple years of productive debt since the 1970's - with some lesser though still productive years in the 1980's and 1990's.

[LIBtranslator]

Before I listen I'm betting the "economist" believes tariffs alone caused the Crash and Great Depression and that felony beer shootings, confiscations and income tax prosecutions, the Harrison Act, banning peyote and heroin and getting the League of Nations to force drug prohibitionism on Germany as of February 1929 had NOTHING to do with the Crash, recessions, banking panics or funding of Hitler's party after the Moratorium on Brains.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

You're livin' in the past, man!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIk_yUkisPU

[shadydave]

"Today we're interviewing Stalin's agricultural advisor, Trofim Lysenko."

[Strawmancasmic, Town Drunk and Gay for Booze]

So Hank, what was the Weimar Republic REALLY like?

[TJJ2000]

"Why Everyone Is Wrong About the Economy"
"abandoned economic reality in favor of political fantasy"

Or paraphrased ... Everyone will be wrong and the economy will continue to fail as long as the people keep worshiping the Gov-Gun Gods in a religious pursuit of economic success.

'Guns' don't make sh*t.
Wrong tool for the job.

The only humanitarian usefulness of a monopoly of 'Gun' force (Gov-Guns) is to ensure Individual Liberty and Justice for all.

[MWAocdoc]

Well, for starters, everyone is NOT wrong about the economy. Democrats and Republicans and Socialists and Progressives are wrong about the economy. They are not even close to "everyone." Minimalists, free traders and laissez faire capitalists are all right about the economy - they just don't have the ear of the likes of Furman.