Alex Winter: Frank Zappa's Ultra-Individualist Legacy

The rock legend fought for free speech and self-expression in ways that appealed to dissidents in America and communist countries alike.

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Alex Winter: Frank Zappa's Ultra-Individualist Legacy

Before his death from prostate cancer in 1993, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame member Frank Zappa spent time in jail for making an obscene recording requested by undercover cops, released 60 records in every genre imaginable, became one of the first modern musical artists to start his own company, testified before Congress that labeling music due to lyrical content was an attack on free speech, and inspired Vaclav Havel and others fighting Czechoslovakia's repressive communist regime. He packed a hell of a lot into 52 years, and made a lot of waves and enemies along the way.

Zappa is the subject of an eponymous new documentary by Alex Winter, whose previous films include Downloaded (a study of Napster and unauthorized file sharing), Deep Web (a look at Ross Ulbricht and the Silk Road), and Trust Machine (an exploration of how blockchain technology decentralizes power; go here for a Reason interview with him about that film). "Zappa," says Winter, who is also well-known for his acting in the Bill & Ted series and other films, "matters because he was an extremely talented and composer but also because…was very anti-authoritarian, very anti-fascist, very pro–citizens' rights. He also saw the tech revolution coming. In all of these extremely interesting ways, Zappa was ahead of the curve." Although his politics, like his music, defy easy (or any, really) categorization, Winter says that Zappa's overriding beliefs in free speech, individualism, and entrepreneurship carried strong libertarian connotations.

Winter talks with Nick Gillespie about Zappa's life and legacy, including his internal contradictions regarding sexual freedom, his ultra-critical attitudes toward hippies and drugs, and other matters. Winter also discusses his own oeuvre as a documentarian and weighs in on a possible pardon for Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road whom President Donald Trump is reportedly considering for a pardon or commutation. Ulbricht, says Winter, bore the brunt of panics over both the internet and bitcoin, and was sentenced for far longer than his crimes deserve. "I think he should not be in jail anymore. Full stop."

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[Bill Godshall]

Frank Zappa was a great composer, conductor, guitar player and humorist who poked fun at everybody, especially himself.

I have all 85 albums (and CDs) he released, and several dozen the family has released since Frank's.

I went to six of his concerts in Philly and Pittsburgh in the late 70s and 80s, and still listen to Zappa concerts/albums several times each week.

He was a master of classical, jazz, blues, rock and many other genres, and magnificently composed all of them together.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Do you have his classical composition? When he discovered an unrelated composer (Francesco Zappa, active in the 1700s), he rerecorded and released his symphonies.

[Bill Godshall]

Yes. I especially love Frank's classical albums and compositions.

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[Zeb]

He has many orchestral works, most of which were not recorded.

[Bill Godshall]

Frank's testimony in Congress in the 80s ridiculing Tipper Gore and others who wanted to further censor music truly protected the 1st Amendment, and was hilarious.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Zappa, Dee Snider, and John Denver. The oddest combination of 1A defenders you could imagine.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

So, all racists.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

You obviously never seen John Denver's Klan parody (that's him in the middle)!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Thank you, I reported the video.

[The Encogitationer]

As Larry The Cable Guy say: "That's funny! I don't care who you are!"

Seriously, though, this video very aptly illustrates where censorship, deplatforming, and "hate crimes" legislation leads.

[Bill Godshall]

Ironically and sadly, although Frank criticized illegal drugs and their users (and didn't tolerate use by members of his band), his three pack per day cigarette addiction very likely caused his premature death.

[Zeb]

I think he just thought people on drugs were annoying.

Do you get prostate cancer from smoking?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

*shrug*

I think the medical community would refer to it with the purposefully vague "contributing factor".

[The Encogitationer]

Zappa and co-musicians Snyder and Denver all faced down a real-life "Central Scrutinizer" and won! It's like they pitched a shotput right into the Telescreen!

[The Encogitationer]

As a self-defense measure against invading Extraterrestrials, some private space entrepreneur (not Elon Musk; he'd blow it up at taxpayer's expense) should launch a Voyager type satellite with Frank Zappa's entire discography playing on loop on all frequencies for all of eternity.

Sir Lollypop Man and Friends will say: "Nah! Let's spare these! They're cool!"

[Unicorn Abattoir]

a possible pardon for Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road whom President Donald Trump is reportedly considering for a pardon or commutation.

Overtaken by events.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

was very anti-authoritarian, very anti-fascist, very pro–citizens' rights.

Probably why Lithuania has a statue of him in their capitol city.

[The Encogitationer]

Really? I better not hear that some bunch of assholes tried to tear it down! Of all people with a statue, Zappa's does not deserve destruction!

[bignose]

I've seen my share of Zappa docs and interviews over the years, so I didn't expect much from this. Shit's good though, worth a watch whether you're a fan or not.

[Zeb]

Zappa TV appearances from the 80s are pretty fun to watch. And the congressional testimony is awesome.

[Zeb]

He did seem to really hate Reagan and Republicans, but that was back in the good old days when conservatives were the bigger moral scolds and censorship proponents.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Because at that time, the Republicans were widely seen as an existential threat to free speech. Oh what a few years makes. It was people like Zappa that brought me to libertarianism. I've already identified who's likely to drive me away from it.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

And on the subject of his disdain for Republicans, Zappa v. Tipper gore, 1987.

And I still remember Clinton supporters falling ALL OVER THEMSELVES to excuse Tipper Gore when Clinton swept into office in 1992.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Fun side note, no one got called a racist.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

including his internal contradictions regarding sexual freedom, his ultra-critical attitudes toward hippies and drugs, and other matters.

I'll have to hear this interview. But I'm curious as to whether these are 'contradictions' or the opinions of an individual.

A freedom-loving libertarian individualist can believe that drugs can be legalized, and that the war on drugs is a blemish (to say the least) on a free society, but can be completely against taking them, and critical of those who do. Same with 'sexual freedom'. Do what YOU like doesn't mean I have to like you doing what you like.

[The Encogitationer]

I'm with you here. Fighting against "The War On (Some) Drugs" requires stone- cold bone sober people to do it. And while we should stand for the individual rights of the outlier, it takes being in Normalville to flank the outlier.

Even Thoreau needed Emerson on the outside to go his bail.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Not to be the pedant, Nick, but Vaclav Havel is pronounced "Vatzlav".

[Jerryskids]

I'm listening to this podcast a snippet at a time because, let's face it, it's retarded for a print magazine to release audio files and if I fucking wanted to listen to shit instead of read it I wouldn't be here, but it's the first I've actually listened to a podcast and it's because it's Zappa. Whatever else, he did his own thing and you gotta respect that. I'm no particular fan of his music, any of it, but I'm a Zappa fan.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Do what I do, span another browser window or tab, and listen to it as background while you work and post impossibly witty comments on other threads.

[Moo Sharpton]

I listened to your comment instead of reading it, just because fuck you.

[The Encogitationer]

I’m listening to this podcast a snippet at a time because, let’s face it, it’s retarded for a print magazine to release audio files and if I fucking wanted to listen to shit instead of read it I wouldn’t be here,

Relax, Jerryskids. Think of the article as a search engine result that doesn't require using Google. Now that's what I call Anarchy!

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[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

What Winter fails to understand in Zappa's "eloquent defense of the constitution" is that Zappa failed to take into account the inherent white supremacy baked into the document and its ideals. And Zappa was a cis-hetero white male. Therefore his legacy is forever stained with that original sin.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

There seems to be a disconnect between being "optimistic about technology" and defending... or being in bed with Technology Companies. They are two entirely different things.

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[billy yum-yum two-by-two]

He makes my balls feel like a pair of maracas

[The Encogitationer]

"But I've got a crystsl ball!"

[Echospinner]

To play with Zappa you had to be top level.

I like drums.

Terry Bozzio, Chad Wackerman, Ainslie Dunbar, Vinnie Colaiuta, Jim Dunbar, the list goes on.

His music was in precise time signature changes few could handle.

He went beyond beyond. Miss that stuff.

[Commenter_XY]

Can you imagine the reaction today if he played 'He's so gay' in a concert? 🙂

Loved Thingfish.

[The Encogitationer]

Don't forget George Duke. Zappa's kids Dweezle and Moon Unit were talented as well.

[The Encogitationer]

Listening to Zappa made me fantasize of moving to Montana so I could raise me a crop of dental floss!

Only thing is, Montana is landlocked and too close for comfort to the Looney Left Pacific Northwest and would-be Neo-Nazi Ethnostate Idaho. Also, a hasty retreat East might mean a run-in with wildlife from Detroit and Chi-Town.