Does Justin Amash Libertarianism Have a Future?

Dissecting the meaning of a congressman's newfound independence

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Does Justin Amash Libertarianism Have a Future?

He came, he saw, he did stuff, he formed the Freedom Caucus, he called for impeachment proceedings, he left the Freedom Caucus, he left the Republican Party, and now he's making the media rounds amid speculation about his electoral possibilities for 2020. So was Justin Amash's declaration of independence on balance a good thing?

Yes is the consensus on today's Editors' Roundtable edition of the Reason Podcast, though not without some bleak real-talk about the near-term viability of libertarian electoral politics. Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, Peter Suderman, and Matt Welch engage with the critiques that libertarians don't meaningfully exist, that libertarianism without populism is DOA, and that yet somehow libertarians have run economic policy for far too long. The group also discusses the Trump administration's Census-citizenship gymnastics, the latest Nancy Pelosi/AOC flap, and what we can learn from revisiting the Tom Cruise flick Cocktail.

Audio production by Ian Keyser.

Relevant links from the show:

"Justin Amash Declares Independence From Republican Party," by Matt Welch

"Trump Taunts Amash as a 'Dumb' 'Loser' Who 'Knew He Couldn't Get the [GOP] Nomination,'" by Matt Welch

"Justin Amash Isn't Just Rebelling Against Trump. He's Fighting the Two-Party System," by Peter Suderman

"Shock Poll: Amash Down 16 Points in Republican Primary," by Matt Welch

"Libertarian Presidential Candidates, on a Possible Justin Amash Run: 'That Would Be Amazing,'" by Matt Welch

"The Trump Administration's Double Reversal on the Census Highlights the Difficulties of Dealing With a Mercurial President Who Rules by Tweet," by Jacob Sullum

"Would Counting Illegal Immigrants Make the Census Pro–Democratic Party?" By Nick Gillespie

"Enumerated Powers and the Census Case," by Ilya Somin

"SCOTUS Ruling on Adding a Citizenship Question to the Census Shows Wilbur Ross Was Defeated by His Own Lies," by Jacob Sullum

"Census Citizenship Question Pushed for by GOP Gerrymanderer," by Matt Welch

What are we consuming this week?

Matt Welch

• USA ladies winning World Cup

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Exhalation by Ted Chiang

Nick Gillespie

• The Theft of a Decade: How the Baby Boomers Stole the Millenials' Economic Future by Joseph C. Sternberg
• Cocktail (1988)

Peter Suderman

• Exhalation by Ted Chiang
• Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
• Hereditary (2018)
• Midsommar (2019)

---

Comments

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Calling to #Impeach Putin's Puppet certainly made Amash's stock rise in my opinion. If he's really a serious libertarian, he'll endorse the Democratic Presidential nominee in 2020.

[IceTrey]

Don't all the nominees advocate polices that violate the NAP?

[Mr. JD]

Yes, and in exactly equal measure. There is no difference in degree of NAP violation at all!

[josh]

amash is a scumbag and not a libertarian - this whole site is sucking his dick for no reason - he "stood up to" trump because he didn't want to lose money on his investment in an ILLEGAL operation to sell chinese goods in the US claiming they were made here

[AlmightyJB]

Lol:)

[Uncle Jay]

"If he’s really a serious libertarian, he’ll endorse the Democratic Presidential nominee in 2020."

That's a laugh.
If Amash is a serious Libertarian, he will not endorse neither Trump or the brainless idiot the democrats nominate.
Instead he'll run on the LP ticket and do what he can to win.
You need to lay off smoking so much shit when you comment here.
Your remarks are getting more stupid as time goes by.

[AER1972]

Many who support Reason and the anti American Nick crowd may well believe this an honest posting.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Republican Party, and now he's making the media rounds amid speculation about his electoral possibilities for 2020.

I like Justin, no, really I do, but the "media rounds" thing is only notable because he left the republican party. Whenever a sitting national politician leaves the republican party, it gets a lot of initial noise in the media-- primarily because it leaves a vacancy for a Democrat.

The rule is basically this: If you're a republican and you want a sympathetic interview on NPR, leave the party and they'll be beating down your door for about two weeks.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Now if you really want to be a footnote in media history, leave the Democratic party. THAT takes real guts. Anyone remember Ben Nighthorse Campbell? Yeah, neither does anyone else.

Joe Lieberman? Yeah, folks were none too happy about him.

[John]

The contrast between how Lieberman, who was at least an honest guy, was treated, and how Alan Specter, who was one of the biggest crooks in Washington, was treated when they left their respective parties is telling to say the least.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I'm a bit reminded of that scene in Black Adder Goes Fourth where General Melchett and Edmund are discussing the state of spying between Germany in Britain. When German spies are mentioned, Melchett rants about how dirty, underhanded and despicable they are. When the British spies are mentioned, he waxes on about their brave, heroic and selfless deeds.

The media tends to have a similar reaction when discussing politicians leaving their respective parties.

[AER1972]

Specter became a Dem-wit which was far superior to becoming an independent.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Ahtough, to be fair, Donald Trump left the Democratic party.

[John]

So did Ronald Reagan.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

That's what makes them white supremacists.

[ThomasD]

Sort of. There are additional factors at play.

If you leave the Democratic Party and win then you become a white supremacist.

Meanwhile, white supremacists who never left the Democratic Party (LBJ, Robert Byrd) remain in good standing.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I thought it was their Betsy Ross flags?

[Uncle Jay]

That also make them fascists, drug dealers and telemarketers.

[markm23]

Telemarketers? That's harsh.

[Dillinger]

>>>the “media rounds” thing is only notable because ...

the four people whose names are attached to this piece should know this

[Tu­lpa AKA "feeling smug"]

No because there is a perception among some Libertarians right or wrong that he should have accomplished more with his stint in Congress.

[JesseAz]

1 post office every 10 years is a hell of a record to run on if he goes for the presidency.

[AER1972]

he was there to protect his Chinese interests and thanks to Trump he failed.

[John]

http://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2019/07/08/feds-guess-found-epsteins-manhattan-mansion/

The feds found child porn in Jeffrey Epstein's computer. I don't think there is any question that Epstein is going down and likely will never get out of prison. The question is will all of his buddies go with him. I am not sure about that.

[Entropic Principle]

One of his buddies was Donald J. Trump.

[John]

Nope. Trump kicked him out of Mar Largo for molesting the staff or some such business. Moreover, if Trump were involved in this, it would have come out a long time ago. DOJ tried to frame him for colluding with the Russians. I am pretty sure they would have tagged him with being a pedo if they had the evidence, which they would have. So, sorry but that fantasy isn't going to come true.

[Tu­lpa AKA "feeling smug"]

Trump said he was a "Great guy" once, 17 years ago. And supposedly may have, unconfirmed, flown on Epsteins jet once. Maybe.

Make of that what you will.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

This Epstein bombshell is a tipping point. The walls are closing in. It's the beginning of the end.

[CE]

you're gonna need several more tipping points in Trump's second term, I'm afraid

[Halykan]

Lol I miss those "tipping point" days from early in Trump's term. I think they finally realized how ridiculous it was around two and a half years in, mostly, but maybe you can still catch a couple here and there. I haven't seen any lately.

[AER1972]

I don't believe Trump flew frequently on the jet. That was another President. I don't believe Epstein contributed large sums of money to Trump's foundation. That was another President.

[wearingit]

Stop replying with this obvious bs.

You're defending a gd child rapist. You are just a complete asshole John.

[John]

You are a complete lying piece of shit. The evidence is what it is. I am not pretending it is something else. Go lie to somewhere else. Dickhead.

[Tony]

Epstein is a child rapist when Bill Clinton is involved but not when Donald Trump is involved.

We get it John. You hardly need to even post.

[AER1972]

I don't think Trump joined him on his Island or his Estate. Bubba did.

[Tu­lpa AKA "feeling smug"]

The hyperbole has made you look like complete idiots to this point Tony-sock, bu sure, double down with "child rapist" you half-wit, it'll totally work this time.

[Last of the Shitlords]

‘Wearingit’, or Palin’s Buttplug,uh as I’ve always k own him is an avid consumer of kiddie Orin and likely a child rapist himself. Epstein is his patron saint and inspiration as a violent sexual predator.

Eat shit Kiddie Raper.

[TLBD]

If you look at Trumps actual quote on Epstein, it looks like he was trying to point out, in his Trumpian fashion, that Epstein liked young girls.

I'm worried that NY office is prosecuting him and is going to give him the Clinton treatment. Yeah, go ahead and smash those hard drives, you'll get to go to one of those fed prisons with a tennis court and pool.

[creech]

Was it Sen. Menendez who was also associated with this sleazeball?
If more shit comes out about Menendez, the voters of New Jersey will react predictably.....they'll give him a hero's ticker tape parade through Newark.

[TLBD]

No, it was some opthamologist, not epstein.

[Mickey Rat]

"Does Justin Amash Libertarianism Have a Future?"

No. Burning up all your political capital on saying the President should be impeached without actually making a case for it destroys your credibility. Being the big fish in the Libertarian Party is a cv footnote,

[CE]

Exactly.

[AER1972]

Yes great point. Amash came off looking like a Progressive wannabe. I think once his connection to China was revealed it was obvious that roots of his displeasure were simple economics.

[Michael Suede]

Libertarianism has a future, unless you demand Trump be deposed for non-crimes because you're a butthurt closet commie. Get on Dissenter and Gab. This comment section sucks.

[Drake]

HA. Yeah, Amash is a commie- a commie that believes in full-blown Austrian economics, just like Ron Paul. I guess he's a commie too, huh? LOL!!! You're a fucking idiot.

[AER1972]

No but he is a tool of the Chinese financially and as such has a vested interest in seeing Chinese succeed at the expense of the USA. He is not interested in seeing America succeed over China.

[CE]

Not exactly. Not even close.

[Marcus Aurelius]

You know who else was a closet commie?

[MatthewSlyfield]

Carl Marx?

[R Mac]

It’s 2009. Reason is ESPN, and Amash is Brett Favre. But he’ll finally start the “Libertarian Moment”, so it’s a good thing.

[ThomasD]

Ten year old sports analogies???

What, are you really Dennis Miller?

[CE]

Hooray, he took a stand. Now he has no "electoral possibilities". Should have just kept voting for liberty, instead of tilting at the Trump windmill, even if he thinks he's right. Maybe run for the Senate after a few more terms.

[Last of the Shitlords]

It’s this kind of shit that keeps the LP from getting anywhere. The goal should be to build grassroots support for solid LP candidates that are not fringe weirdos like McAfee. Or in the absence of such candidates, back a republican that checks enough libertarian policy boxes. Amash is flushing his congressional career down the toilet so he can get laid Big bucks to be a toadie talking head at CNN or MSNBC.

[TLBD]

Libertarians should take notes from the socialists on how to take over a party or at least move it in your direction.

First step: Quit being openly hostile to the only party that accepts you.

[Mr. JD]

That's a great first step.

[voluntaryist]

Yea, pander to the power, that will set you apart and teach the populace libertarianism. The "great" statesman of yore helped to move the common person to adopt more authoritarianism, lived long & comfortable lives, up until the collapse of empire.
T.J. was an exception.

[Halykan]

Well, back in the ill-remembered yesteryears of the early twenty teens, there was a successful push by libertarians and some sympathetic republicans to actually reduce the size and scope of the federal govt. They felt they'd been taxed enough, you see. Then a funny thing happened when Trump took office . . .

More seriously, after Trump's successful rout of the 'small government' wing of the GOP, there's really no major party that is sympathetic to libertarian principles in any meaningful sense. They chased us out deliberately so they could get those "free goodies" votes without having their own members harping on them for political non-starters like "not running trillion dollar deficits" and "individual freedoms" and "reducing government power."

This realignment looks pretty dire for us in the short term, but given the stability issues both parties are facing with their coalitions I'm hoping a bit of electoral reform could open up our system to realistic challenges (at least in the states) from parties outside the big two. It's definitely more of a long term project.

[AER1972]

Plus he needs to protect his major share in Dynamic Source International.

[ThomasD]

You've got that cause and effect thing backwards.

His electoral possibilities were shitty before he 'took a stand.'

[buybuydandavis]

"Does Justin Amash Libertarianism Have a Future?"

Dustbin of history.

[J W]

Amash is not a libertarian.

[Azathoth!!]

Amash took a stand on principle.

Unfortunately, it wasn't a libertarian principle--no matter what he tries to add in now.

He took a stand for the principle that the unelected bureaucratic state should have free reign to undo the elected will of the people.

And now his futures end.

[J W]

And now his futures end.

Oh, his future is just beginning: he pulled this stunt because he wanted a cushy job at a think tank and as a political commentator. For that, he needed to fall in line with the intelligentsia.

[Halykan]

I don't really see how saying that the (elected) members of congress should review the available evidence and vote to decide whether or not they think Trump has misused his power sufficiently to warrant removal is "undo[ing] the elected will of the people." I mean, if you mean it purely in the sense that it's annulling the result of a popular vote, well - you do realize that Trump lost that popular vote, right?

[Uncle Jay]

Amash has to be better than Mr. Casper Milquetoast, aka, Anderson.
Anderson had the personality of a wet blanket.

[SteelCityAncap]

Rothbardian/Hoppean libertarianism does

[voluntaryist]

We have a pseudo 2-party system. There is one party of authoritarianism, self servicing politicians. Should a libertarian get elected POTUS the political system will NOT change; it will still be based on the initiation of violence, threats, and fraud.
When 20% stop voting on principle, stop supporting coercive govt. on all levels, then a grass-roots libertarian movement will begin to make fundamental changes. Change will be grass-roots or not al all.

[vek]

The problem with Amash is he cucks on all the wrong things, whines about all the wrong things, etc. I broadly agree with most of his opinions, but he has picked his hills to die on HORRIBLY. Ron/Rand both have better views IMO, but even when I know they're biting their tongues OR lashing out, they picked their battles better.

Amash isn't more principled than the Paul's... He's just not as good a player IMO.

[cheapmcmbelt]

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[tlapp]

He had a voice as a republican in office. He has diminished his influence and the libertarian views will now get less attention because of it. I understand his frustration but the right answer was to try and get more with libertarian views elected.

[NOYB2]

It has a future: In the Democratic party. Because that's all Amash's "libertarian" preening is.