Trump Is Still Claiming He Saves '25,000 American Lives' When He Blows Up a Suspected Drug Boat
So far, by the president's reckoning, he has prevented 650,000 U.S. drug deaths—eight times the number recorded last year.
President Donald Trump was widely mocked for claiming "we save 25,000 American lives" every time the U.S. military blows up a suspected drug boat in the Caribbean or the eastern Pacific. Undeterred by the well-deserved ridicule, the president is still pushing that preposterous premise, which implies that he has prevented 650,000 drug-related deaths by ordering attacks that so far have destroyed 26 vessels in 22 operations.
"Every boat that you see get blown up, we save 25,000, on average, lives, 25,000 lives," Trump averred during a Cabinet meeting last week. On Monday, he reiterated that "every single boat we shoot out, on average, we save 25,000 American lives."
The BBC dryly notes that "the White House has not explained how it arrived at this figure." But it seems to be the product of several empirical and logical fallacies.
First, Trump erroneously thinks the targeted boats, which would have been transporting cocaine produced mainly in Colombia, were carrying fentanyl, which generally enters the United States in small packages carried over land across the border with Mexico. "The boats get hit, and you see that fentanyl all over the ocean," he claimed at a press conference in October. Trump's confusion is relevant because fentanyl accounts for most drug-related deaths in the United States. Last year, according to estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), fentanyl was implicated in more than 49,000 drug deaths, 60 percent of the total, while cocaine was detected in about 22,500 cases, around 28 percent of the time.
Second, Trump imagines, contrary to more than a century of experience with drug interdiction, that traffickers do not compensate for intercepted shipments by sending more. When drugs are seized or destroyed, he seems to think, the total supply available to Americans is reduced by that amount. If that were true, it would be hard to understand why Trump says drug interdiction is "totally ineffective."
Third, Trump assumes that any given amount of drugs would be evenly divided into lethal doses, each of which would be consumed in one sitting by a different person. Attorney General Pam Bondi relied on the same plainly unrealistic assumption when she absurdly claimed that the Trump administration had "saved…258 million lives" during its first 100 days by intercepting fentanyl shipments.
Bondi's claim epitomized the illogic of the war on drugs, and Trump implicitly contradicted it when he described drug interdiction as "totally ineffective"—his rationale for resorting to summary execution of suspected smugglers. If the traditional approach of seizing drugs and arresting smugglers was "totally ineffective," it did not save any lives, let alone prevent three-quarters of the U.S. population from succumbing to fentanyl overdoses, which is what Bondi suggested would have happened but for the Trump administration's heroic interdiction efforts during its first few months.
Trump's claim about the lives saved by blowing up drug boats is modest compared to Bondi's jaw-dropping assertion. But given the powerful financial incentive for delivering drugs to American consumers and the many ways of doing that, there is no reason to think his lethal version of drug interdiction will be any more effective than the less violent strategy that prevailed prior to September 2. And although Bondi's hyperbole would be hard to match, Trump is still claiming, with a straight face, that he has already prevented eight times the number of U.S. drug deaths recorded in 2024 (about 82,000, per the CDC). "I don't see a universe in which [Trump's claim] could possibly be true," UCLA epidemiologist Chelsea Shover told the BBC.
These bogus numbers would be merely amusing if Trump were not deploying them to justify a policy of killing suspected cocaine couriers, at a distance and in cold blood, without legal authorization or any semblance of due process. Trump conflates drug smuggling with violent aggression, saying it amounts to "an armed attack against the United States" that requires a lethal military response. His meretritious math aims to bolster that reality-defying description. He hopes his extravagant claims about hypothetical deaths prevented by his bloodthirsty anti-drug strategy will distract the public from the actual deaths he is ordering.
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"by the president's reckoning, he has prevented 650,000 U.S. drug deaths—eight times the number recorded last year"
Impressive!
Merry Christmas. Find someone to love you like Jacob loves narco drug runners.
So so dishonest.
You’re not exactly in any position to discuss dishonesty, Jeff.
Let me put it clearly for fatty on what im talking about.
Kinetic munitions have now been used for almost 40 years. It includes citizens, weddings, civilians, aid workers with water in their trunk and his kids.
Not one of these incidents have elicited the response Sullum has had in regards to drug runners. Jeff knows this. He just denies it. Jacob has done almost daily reports on this. That is the love shown by Jacob.
You're full of shit, you Trump Cultist.
I remember when Drug Warriors like Fatass Donnie were ridiculed on this site.
Now you Cultists are all for the Drug War.
Walz +5
Chester the Molester +3
I dare JesseBot or anyone else to produce any article at Reason which defended or excused Obama's drone strikes on citizens or Biden's drone strikes on the aid worker and family. Just one. I don't think anyone will produce such an article because I seriously doubt that article exists.
Furthermore, Obama formally apologized for his drone strike. Biden apologized for his drone strike. They may or may not have been sincere, but at least they claimed publicly anyway that they were in the wrong.
By contrast, Trump not only isn't going to apologize, he and his team want to go even further. What are the limits that the JesseBots would recognize on the military's power to blow up any boats that they want to? Team Trump are a bunch of unremorseful psychopaths. OF COURSE THEY SHOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY. Previous "kinetic munitions" instances on civilians were regarded as accidental and regrettable. Team Trump wants to change that to be deliberate and normative.
And no, using the military as a branch of the DEA is not a good idea.
I dare JesseBot or anyone else to produce any article at Reason which defended or excused Obama's drone strikes on citizens or Biden's drone strikes on the aid worker and family. Just one. I don't think anyone will produce such an article because I seriously doubt that article exists.
You forget that criticism of Trump equals support for Democrats. So as far as Jesse and company are concerned, this article right here praises and excuses Obama's drone strikes because it criticizes Trump.
Well in the case of JesseBot, he is programmed with what to think by his right-wing influence programmers. He will say with a straight face "you didn't complain when Obama did it!" because that is what is in JesseBot's AI training set.
The real dangerous ones, however, are the right-wing demagogues and influencers who know better, but lie anyway because they support the outcome. Just as Dan Bongino accidentally admitted the other day, the right-wing opinion makers are paid to produce a certain opinion and they will happily cash those big paychecks if it means throwing truth overboard. Besides, with Trump's hiring of media personalities for actual positions of power, he's sending a clear message that the path to career advancement in the right-wing universe is to produce the "correct" opinions and lie your ass off until Trump notices and vests you with a spot in Trump's Court.
Trouble is, it was ignored.
Well jeff has a lie and he will continue to argue based on it.
Can you imagine how annoying Fatfuck must be in person? I can’t see anyone tolerating his company for more than five minutes.
He probably got beat up a lot in school. But not nearly enough.
You know full well that this shit happens on both sides of the aisle. So, the question is, why only shill against one of those sides, "radical individualist"?
You're wrong. It's not the same on both sides. One sides does it, apologizes, then doesn't do it again. The other side does it, is proud of it, wants to do more of it, and dismisses anyone who objects as "defending terrorists". On this issue, they are both wrong, but one side is WAY worse than the other.
I'm not seeing your claim of "doesn't do it again" in the media record. I'm sure no president intended aid workers and innocents be targeted in air strikes, but it happened before and after official apologies. This goes beyond partisanship. It's a problem with our Executive Branch given too much leeway.
Walz +8
Jeff -Furthermore, Obama formally apologized for his drone strike. Biden apologized for his drone strike. They may or may not have been sincere, but at least they claimed publicly anyway that they were in the wrong.
Also Jeff It's not the same on both sides. One sides does it, apologizes, then doesn't do it again.
So what side does it the right way?
One sides does it,Obama formally apologized for his drone strike. then doesn't do it again.Biden apologized for his drone strike.
So all Trump needs to do is say “sowee” and everything is ok?
https://petrinabinney.com/2019/04/03/day-93-quotes-and-being-quoted/
You know youre just lying along with Jeff as that claim was never made. Adding onto his lie. But that's typical of lying leftists like you two lol.
Literally what a strawman is. If you ever need an example.
Congrats jeff. You lied to convince a retard named sarc.
Where did I make the claim they defended any strikes?
That is made up because youre a lying retard Marxist lol.
Then you agree with me that neither Reason nor Sullum defended or excused Obama's drone strikes or Biden's drone strikes. I guess there is a first time for everything.
Nope. You all defend democrats reflexively when this shit happens. Then, years later when it doesn’t matter. You make up bullshit like this.
You’re a liar, and an enemy of it constitutional republic.
Previous "kinetic munitions" instances on civilians were regarded as accidental and regrettable. Team Trump wants to change that to be deliberate and normative.
Oh no, wars fought to be won!
How dare Trump *checks notes* try!
And that’s the whole point. Marxists like our morbidly obese pedophile lie and obfuscate to try and paralyze his administration.
Biden did not apologize for killing an innocent family.
He was truly concerned about the time when the bodies were returned and he never acknowledged his failures, he blamed Trump.
He, I believe, apologized for blowing out his pants to his wife. MSM does a good job spinning and splicing and provided an edited version of an apology but it was shitty.
Yes he did apologize.
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/one-year-later-aclu-urges-president-biden-keep-his-promise-evacuate-kabul-drone
He may or may not have been sincere, but at least he admitted publicly that it was a mistake.
By contrast, Trump doesn't think it is a mistake at all, and wants to do more of it.
Did he apologize for causing the invasion of Ukraine? Or his bungled pullout of Afghanistan? Or his persecution of his political enemies? And so much more.
Walz +6, you fat cunt.
Trump surrendered to the Taliban…and it was the correct decision!! You are a Cheney Republican!
Silence is endorsement. Drug runners are not civilians.
I wasn't aware drug runners were members of any military branch.
Walz +4
Trump assassinated a little American girl and 9 of her little friends and the SEAL that died in the FUBAR operation was killed by a female babysitter…and then Trump lied about it to the entire country.
The fuck are you talking about?
I think it's the Jan 29, 2017 military raid in Yemen. A girl and a seal were killed. But there's nothing to see here folks, whatever trump does is okay because trump does it.
Walz +5
Yes, the Raid on Yakla. The Gold Star father was also a special operator and he was pissed at Trump for lying. Obviously Republicans never give Democrats a break on anything but I can understand why Trump would lie about the FUBAR operation because he was so inexperienced and had no clue about anything involving the military and he thought he was lying to protect the fallen hero…but as we learned during the Bush presidency lying is a disservice to the fallen. Soldiers must know heroes like Pat Tillman died from friendly fire and it wasn’t heroic and that is 100% on civilian leadership and generals that put young soldiers in the crazy situations for nothing! The GWOT was pretty much all for nothing!
Jan 27 of 2017, when Trump had been president for barely a week? Wouldn't that operation have been planned, organized, and authorized under Obama?
Nope, Flynn encouraged Trump to authorize the raid kept getting delayed under Obama. Then 2020 Camp Simba attack where we lost 4 Americans was the blowback…that was Trump’s Benghazi.
These are the same people that blamed Trump for Obama’s longstanding’kids in cages’ policy.
I keep that piece of shit muted. Every comment he makes is Walz +11.
What's the difference between a terrorist camp and a day care center?
What do I care, I'm just the drone operator
Was Sullum on that beat back then? I recall that would have been an Ed Krayewski article.
Have you discovered an aspect of Afghani culture that you find is a 'pro' compared to western liberal democracies yet?
OK retard, you know saving lives isn't always from death, right? This could be lives saved by preventing people from destroying themselves and their loved ones from the consequences of addiction. But of course you demand he be taken literally as you and other Leftists use hyperbolic language routinely.
This could be lives saved by preventing people from destroying themselves and their loved ones from the consequences of addiction.
Thank heavens we have Daddy Trump to save you from yourself.
You do know that the inflow of this shit fuels things like gang violence, right, retard?
He would be against these fishermen if they were transporting ivermectin or hcq. Or salads.
It doesn't matter if they are transporting ivermectin or heroin. The military shouldn't be blowing them up, both ivermectin and heroin should be legal, and having them legal is not the same as an endorsement of their use.
But, at the current time, they are not legal.
Walz +3
Fatfuck is all in for ChiCom client state sponsored narcoterrorism against the US. Which is logical since we’ve discovered that Fatfuck is a ChiCom asset.
DeSantis allowed patriots to get ivermectin instead of taking the vaccine…which is why Florida had a Delta death surge because ivermectin is ineffective and the vaccines are safe and effective. I love it when rednecks die from preventable diseases.
"Delta death surge" WTF Making it up as you go along.
How ignorant are you?? The median age of Covid death declined during the entirely preventable Delta death surge.
It would make infinitely more sense for Venezuelan drug exporters to adulterate their wares with hcq than fentanyl, as quinine grows on trees down there like coca in the Andes,
Sullum has nailed the idiocy of Trump's mixed MAGA-MAHA metaphor- the economics is as bogus as the faux epidemiology.
The fentanyl comes from China. Under Maduro, Venezuela has become a ChiCom client state.
The reaso the DEA has never reported finding fentanyl in the bulk cocaine bricks that are the smugglers cargo is that besides risking the death of repeat customers, fentanyl costs orders of magnitude more to produce.
It is an economically, and pharmacologically idiotic idea. Cocaine has to be repeatedly cut at the street dealer level to reach the point at which adding synthetic opiates becomes a feature rather than a bug
Please explain why , outside the realm of urban legend and Qanon woo, and bulk refiner and exporter of a product sold on the basis of purity would water it down at the source.
Only a Trump Dick Sucjker would believe our drug problem are these tiny boats from Venezuela.
The reddit retard wandered outside his home again.
Walz +7
Who else will save us from bears in car trunks?
Hedonism is to be celebrated.
That's one of their three chief beliefs (the other two being corporate whoring and immigration uber alles).
There's a lot of room between saying "drugs are great and to be celebrated" and "it's OK to just kill people for transporting contraband".
Same argument has been made against el salvador rounding up the cartel members. I think the citizens would disagree with where that line is.
There's certainly a valid debate there. When is the problem so bad that it becomes necessary to work outside the usual rules of due process and treat cartels or whatever as something other than usual criminality?
Well said
Can we just call it ridiculous hyperbole? "Saving lives" is almost always understood to mean saving people from death.
Whatever you think of Trump, I think an honest person can acknowledge that he tends to exaggeration and hyperbole, to say the least. That's what's going on here.
So if it is widely known he exaggerates, why spend so many calories on that fact.
This entire week of diatribe by Jacob would be more effective on discussing the policy, the responses, etc. Instead if raging as an attack against trump. When the same rage didnt exist prior for similar instances. It just makes Jacob look dishonest.
When the same rage didnt exist prior for similar instances.
Continue to push the false equivalence between what Trump is doing now and what Obama & Biden did previously. Different responses to different incidents with different motivations is completely understandable. But you are such a lying shitweasel that you try to create a false equivalence as a way to defend the horrid shitshow that constitutes your team.
Walz +8
Plus your incredibly dishonest and libelous.
Ridiculous hyperbole or a strained, expansive definition would be reasonable but Sullum is taking it strictly literally. Many more lives are destroyed by drugs than just OD numbers and mitigating that collateral and societal destruction does, broadly, save lives because they spend that much less time clamoring out of shit.
How many lives did Trump save from cocaine in his days as a Studio54 Most Valued Customer?
I really doesn't matter how you define saving lives because in the real world prohibition rarely works. If you want to help people with drug problem you have to work on the demand side, not the supply side.
Did drug deaths increase or decrease in Seattle and portland when they decriminalized them?
We spent 50 years working on the demand side - that is what Prohibition is.
Now we're going after the supply.
What are you talking about? Prohibition is defined as "the action of forbidding something, especially by law." This country has spent years trying to forbid people from drugs they want rather than getting people to stop wanting drugs. The country has been trying to stop drugs imports for so many years without success. We are finally learning with marijuana and it is time to start looking at the approach used for other drugs.
We shouldn’t be prohibiting marijuana. We should be prohibiting Marxism, and anti Jewish terrorism.
Right JewFree?
Sullum has the mind of a child.
Second, Trump imagines, contrary to more than a century of experience with drug interdiction, that traffickers do not compensate for intercepted shipments by sending more.
Then there would be more boats on the water, contradicting the narrative that these are innocent fishermen.
At some point, you run out of product or people willing to drive the boat.
Lives can be saved multiple times. Does Mr Sullum think everyone is literally related to Charlemagne?
It's highly likely that all living people of European descent are descendants of Charlemagne. That's just how the math works—if you're of European descent, you are almost certainly a descendant of every European alive at that time who had children.
killing it.
So if it's the government's job to save citizens from themselves by blowing up drug boats so that the citizens don't take those dirty filthy drugs, where do you draw the line on how far the government should go to save citizens from themselves?
Should the government censor online content that is "harmful" or "false"? If not why not? After all, couldn't that be justified in the same way, the government saving citizens from themselves so they don't make poor decisions based on harmful and/or false information?
Should the government subsidize health care for citizens? After all if a person really is sick and can't afford health care, why shouldn't the government save that citizen from his/her own inability to provide for his/her own health care?
Should the government regulate guns more strictly? After all, gun violence is the #1 killer for children. Wouldn't it be a good idea for the government to "save lives" by making guns more scarce?
If you really want the government to be the nation's nanny, be careful what you wish for.
where do you draw the line on how far the government should go to save citizens from themselves?
The border.
Where the statutory limits of the constitution exists.
those Barbary Pirates are still pissed.
Islamic aggression isn’t a new thing.
Violent triumphalism is the basis of Islam.
Therefore Islam should be kept down.
Do I really need to post your bears in trunks defense of covid authoritarianism? Your demand for government welfare is required because people dont donate enough to charity in your view?
You remain very inconsistent. Always aligning with Marxists and liberals.
Well then, welcome to the team, fellow nanny-statist! How much do you want to increase the welfare budget by? You know, "for the sake of the children".
go get your own drugs from Venezuela it's not America's job to supply you
Thisnis where i should post jeffs statement saying trespassing is a capital offenses for citizens.
this is where Kat Timpf needs to shut up too. it's not America's job to supply the illegal drugs derp
Or his supply of 55 gallon drums of Ben & Jerry’s.
Please repost that. It conjures up so much ire in Fatfuck, and so much mirth for everyone else.
I’ll bet it makes him smolder like a pile of burning blubbery tires.
There are also likely some newbies who are raising their eyebrows every time they see "Bears in Trunks."
They sure don't give a fuck about cigarettes
Any of those proposals can be debated with facts and reasoning. That's how adults in a democratic republic are supposed to make public policy decisions. You on the other hand suffer from the sophomoric view that all such questions can be answered by declaring a Principle that must be followed in all cases, regardless of the circumstances or the consequences. That's why your silly, childish analogies seem reasonable to you, while the rest of us laugh at you.
You're so right. Principles are leftist.
Following principles mindlessly is childish for people of any persuasion.
Every time a boat goes boom, an American gets its (pronoun?) wings.
Those same 25,000 people are being saved every time none of that poison makes it into the US. How do you not comprehend that simple math? The people getting saved by each boat of poison being destroyed are the same people, unless you think new, completely different drug addicts pop up before/after each destruction.
Drug users only use drugs once. Like Jeff only eats one portion.
True statement. As an example, one 55 gallon drum of Ben & Jerry’s constitutes a single portion. As does a side of beef.
So, what? This is such a silly debate. Trump is doing his usual hyperbolic bloviating. And we're all getting distracted from the question of whether any of this is legal or appropriate.
And jacob is doing his usual anti trump hysteria. Its all his article deserves.
Sure. My comment isn't only directed at the comment section.
True libertarians support the war on drugs, because freedom means asking permission and obeying commands.
True Dotard Libertarian Cultists also support the Aggression First Principle. Kill others first just in case they might be selling drugs.
Walz +6
Like never questioning an election or covid response?
"Trump Is Still Claiming He Saves '25,000 American Lives' When He Blows Up a Suspected Drug Boat"
SO?
Men still claim they are women.
Reason still claims it is a libertarian magazine.
Democrats still claim they are saving democracy.
College football player still claim they are students.
Reason is even pushing their affordability lie.
And then there is Boehm and tariffs.
How many might, could, maybe articles does Reason write a week?
None of them are the Presidnt Trump Dick Sucker
You think of trumps dick a lot it seems.
He has a Trump mask for his top to wear.
Walz +4
Touche.
JS;dr
Hey Scumby the Chimp-Chump CLONE WANNABE! Snot only did I SNOT read JS, I also did SNOT read the Bible, Leo Fool’s-Toy, the writings of Hairy Pothead, Little Women, Little Penises, Little Women with Penises, Hairy TurtleDove, Hairy TurtleShit, “For Whom the Trolls Belt Out Lies” and “The Old Man and the Sleaze”, by Ernest Spamming-Way, Shakespeare, TenTiredTurtlesInATuttle-TuttleTree, “When Hairy Met Slutty” by Queen Spermy Daniels, Charles DickHead, OhThePlacesI-SwillGo; M. Scott Peckish, Sam-I-Am Harris, Zen, Feng Shui and The Farts of Motorcycle Cuntinence, Whores and Peace, Snores and Fleas, “On the Origin of Feces”, The Bhagavad Gita, Ulysses, Pussy Riot, For Whores The Bells Toll, or even “Sam I Am”!!!
So I am INFINITELY more ignorant that YOU, Oh Pervfectly Ignorant and IgnorCunt Jane, You SLUT!!! Bow Low NOW, Scumby the Chimp-Chump CLONE WANNABE, You Ignorant Slut!!! Or "up" Your lame game!
Where is Scumby the Chimp-Chump these days anyway? Did the Evil One reclaim Shit to be BACK with Father-Shit, the Father of Lies?
Ignored
JS;dr
Likely more effective than a COVID vaccine... amirite?
How many articles on the drug boats does it make now, a baker's dozen? And how many articles are there on the massive fraud in Minnesota? Which may be 8 times worse than we originally thought!
Local news
What his happening in MN is normal crime. What Trump is doing to the boats is an international war crime. The one in MN is being investigated and people prosecuted. That is not happening in the Trump boat attacks.
MAGAs are very simple minded and unable to comprehend any level of complexity.
I bet this even sounded retarded in your head but im proud of you for persevering.
+8 on the walz scale.
Definitely.
An immigrant community scamming 8 billion dollars and funneling it to a terrorist group is normal crime to you?
No Drumph in Minnesota. The sheep only bleat when it is Trump adjacent.
Muduro literally said he was sending gang banger trash into the US to engage in warfar against the US.
Sullum you are too stupid to live, kill yourself
Trump is a dumbass and a liar. The perfect MAGA.
Is that what china paid you to say?
Yes. Total dumbass. The tall buildings with “Mollygodiva” on top outnumber the buildings with “Trump” on top by a wide margin.
Walz +7
by the president's reckoning, he has prevented 650,000 U.S. drug deaths—eight times the number recorded last year
Damn Obama and his Common Core math!
Wait, this is about saving lives? I mean, I guess that's a nice bonus - whether it's 25 or 25000 - but I was always under the impression that it was mostly about killing drug running scumbags. Which is justification all on its own.
See, Fakey Jakey, we don't need "saves Americans" to sell America on this issue. Just keep the videos of them going KAPLOW! coming. And if anybody survives, there'd better be a KAPLOW! Part 2! sequel video.
Good guys overkilling bad guys and all their mooks and henchmen to stop their evil plot and save the day. What's not to love.
I thought democrats believed that undertaking these things is worth if it even if it “only saves a single life”.
Sullum, who are these articles for?
Everyone knows Trump talks shit. No one takes his 'explanations' seriously - only his actions.
At this point I don't care if it isn't saving one life. Its 2025, the threats we face are globalized, with a spectrum of actors from states to private individuals and hybrid organizations, and outside the scope that 'law enforcement' can deal with.
And we're globalized *because of policies you support* - but you want to keep using the same structures and tactics for today's world as for one where it would take a month to cross the Pacific?
Well said. Not like the fat faggot, the skinny faggot, or the raving drunk.
Wait till Trump realizes how many lives he could save by drone-striking Budweiser delivery trucks.
Hegseth would resign over that!! 😉
Tariffs are taxes on Americans!
Taxes on Americans are taxes on corporations!
Sullum is still claiming to be a rational person rather than the TDS-addled steaming pile of lying shit he is. Fuck off and die, asswipe.
Excepting the weekend, in which articles are not published, this is Jacob's 7th straight day writing about this.
Even Joe McCarthy would be saying, "ok, let's change the subject for a bit."