Trump Says His 'Armed Conflict' With Drug Traffickers Does Not Involve 'Hostilities'
The government is tying itself in knots to cast murder as self-defense and avoid legal limits on the president's use of the military.
			President Donald Trump has sought to justify the summary execution of suspected drug smugglers by arguing that the United States is engaged in an "armed conflict" with criminal organizations that supply prohibited intoxicants. Yet the Trump administration also insists that U.S. forces are not engaging in "hostilities" when they blow up boats believed to be carrying illegal drugs.
Those positions are consistent with Trump's disregard for legal limits on his use of the military to prosecute a literalized war on drugs. But they are otherwise hard to reconcile with each other, and their implications underline the immorality and lawlessness of his bloodthirsty antidrug tactics.
Since September 2, Trump has ordered 15 attacks on suspected drug boats in the Caribbean and the eastern Pacific, killing a total of 65 people. As he tells it, those men were "unlawful combatants" in a "noninternational armed conflict" with the United States because they were affiliated with "nonstate armed groups" whose actions "constitute an armed attack against the United States."
Those unspecified groups, Trump says, are "designated terrorist organizations." That label, which refers to "foreign terrorist organizations" (FTOs) identified by the State Department under 8 USC 1189, is misleading because Trump is talking about financially motivated drug traffickers rather than ideologically motivated groups that use violence for political ends.
In any case, that designation authorizes the Treasury Department to block transactions involving an FTO's assets and triggers criminal penalties for providing "material support or resources" to the organization. Contrary to what Trump has repeatedly suggested, it does not authorize the assassination of people who allegedly are affiliated with an FTO. In other words, no matter how many times Trump calls suspected drug smugglers "narcoterrorists," that description cannot transform murder into self-defense—which is why he claims that killing those alleged "narcoterrorists" is justified by the law of war.
Geoffrey Corn, formerly the U.S. Army's senior adviser on the law of war, does not buy it. "This is not stretching the envelope," he told The New York Times. "This is shredding it."
Cardozo Law School professor Gabor Rona concurs. If the men whose deaths Trump has ordered "were running illicit drugs destined for the United States," he writes, "the proper—and entirely feasible and precedented—response would have been interdiction, arrest, and trial. The Trump administration's summary execution/targeted killing of suspected drug dealers, by contrast, is utterly without precedent in international law."
The definition of a "noninternational armed conflict" requires violent confrontations between "organised Parties" that possess "organised armed forces." The violence must "meet a minimum threshold of intensity" that distinguishes it from situations such as "riots," "banditry," "unorganized and short-lived insurrections," or "terrorist activities." The "armed conflict" that Trump describes does not seem to meet these criteria.
Even if it did, Trump's use of the military would still be subject to the requirements of the War Powers Resolution. That 1973 law requires the president to report "any incident in which the United States Armed Forces are involved in an attack or hostilities" within 48 hours. It adds that the president "shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces with respect to which such report was submitted" within 60 days unless Congress has declared war or authorized an extension.
"Even when a president is acting under his or her constitutional authority to use force," law professor Rebecca Ingber and former State Department lawyer Jessica Thibodeau note, "the statute requires that the operations terminate after 60 days if Congress has not yet approved of the operations." Since Trump notified Congress of the first boat strike on September 4, that 60-day period expires today. But last week, the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) told Congress the 60-day rule does not apply in this case because blowing up suspected drug boats does not count as "hostilities" within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.
The OLC's reasoning, which hinges on the premise that U.S. forces face no plausible risk of casualties, resembles former President Barack Obama's controversial claim that dropping bombs on Libya in 2011 did not constitute "hostilities." But however useful it may be in avoiding statutory limits on the president's war powers, the Trump administration's argument also underlines the reality that the president is killing people who are not engaged in "an armed attack on the United States" in circumstances where the use of lethal force is morally and legally unjustified.
"In a statement provided by the White House," The New York Times reports, "an unnamed senior administration official said that American service members were not in danger because the boats suspected of smuggling drugs were mostly being struck by drones far from naval ships carrying U.S. forces." According to that official, "the operation comprises precise strikes conducted largely by unmanned aerial vehicles launched from naval vessels in international waters at distances too far away for the crews of the targeted vessels to endanger American personnel."
In other words, these attacks were not, by any stretch of the imagination, acts of self-defense, even though that is how the Trump administration has tried to frame them. And in denying the existence of "hostilities," the government implicitly contradicts Trump's September 4 letter to Congress about the first boat strike, which said the report was "consistent with the War Powers Resolution." The provision to which he was referring requires a "report on hostilities involving United States Armed Forces." The government's new characterization of the attacks also seems inconsistent with Trump's assertion of a "noninternational armed conflict," which requires "hostilities."
Just a few days ago, Ingber and Thibodeau thought that contradiction would make a denial of "hostilities" clearly untenable. "The administration is making no argument that the lethal kinetic attacks killing more than 60 alleged narcotraffickers are not hostilities," they wrote—prematurely, it turned out. "Indeed, they've gone further to argue that the United States is engaged in a non-international armed conflict with a publicly unnamed list of cartel groups."
The Trump administration has tied itself in knots in an effort to obscure what is really happening. By choosing to kill alleged drug smugglers instead of interdicting and arresting them (the practice until September 2), Trump is imposing the death penalty on criminal suspects without statutory authorization or any semblance of due process.
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JS;dr
Got to line where JS cites NYT "unnamed senior official" blah, blah, blah...
Wish I hadn't read.
You guys do the reading of these shit op-ed pieces so I don’t have to. Thanks.
JS;dr
JS;dr
JS;dr
Just another day where Trump violates the Constitution and federal law. Nothing to see here
(And for those who say "What about Obama"? It was wrong back then also.)
Trump _is_ the Constitution so don't you dare complain.
So you supported Bush’s treatment of American Taliban but when Obama kills a military age American that is a terrorist you throw a tantrum?? And when Trump assassinates a little American girl and 9 of her little friends and sacrifices a SEAL to do it…your response is “buh Obama”!?!
The problem here is not so much that Trump is abusing his authority as it is that Congress handed him an engraved invitation to abuse his authority in the form of unconstitutionally broad and vague statutes and the Supreme Court tacitly or explicitly "constitutionalized" them. Plenty of blame to go around here if you can get off your Trump Derangement Syndrome long enough to write thoughtful articles.
Even if true; the buck has to stop somewhere. The CiC is Trump. Do you think the Navy or Air Force would be droning these boats if they weren't ordered to do so? If they weren't following the chain of command?
I don't think Hegseth is doing this on his own, do you? I also don't think the generals or admirals are doing this on their own, do you?
Trump has clearly made the decision to greenlight these strikes, Hegseth being the good lap puppy has also agreed and the rest is just trying to find a legal rationale to justify it...which the OP finds lacking. As do most legal observers.
Congress seems intent on being worthless as usual. But even if it was in session; Trump is saying he doesn't have to comply with what they say anyway since the war powers act isn't implicated. Which is a legal judgment that the President is claiming to make. The whole thing stinks and is quite the dangerous escalation of executive power.
the buck has to stop somewhere.
Agree. But the buck stops with the voters - not those elected who abuse their office. The next 'opportunity' for voters to do something is 2026 midterms - and overthrow everyone in the House.
I'm pretty sure not one person here will change their vote to hold their own critter accountable.
Unfortunately that failure (or even any attempt) to hold any of the elected accountable is why we don't make the structural changes to force accountability.
How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see?
The answer my friend is pissing in the wind.
*the buck stops with the voters - not those elected who abuse their office.*
Interesting idea that voters shouldn't judge the work of people they vote for...
Would someone please think of the Raytheon stockholders!
Trump got 49% of the vote. That means he gets to kill anyone he wants for any reason. And if you question it, you have TDS.
Oh, and anyone else get a chuckle out of 60 Minutes editing Trump's interview just like they edited Harris's? All the armchair Constitutional scholars here are up in arms I'm sure.
Pfft.. Molly the leftist literally stated exactly that yesterday.
Leftard Self-Projection 101.
And that's precisely why it's TDS. Literally taking exactly the BS-idiocy of what leftists believe and blaming it all on Trumps side.
Is there anything leftists do/say that isn't dishonest/fraudulent?
What-else could be expected from a crowd that lobbies to STEAL from those 'icky' people for their benefits.
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#ssr-is
Hey shrike. Was the full interview released or not?
"American service members were not in danger *because* the boats suspected of smuggling drugs were mostly being struck by drones"
The way that is worded makes it sound like drone-usage is being used as an excuse to flip defense into aggression.
If that is the only *because* you got; you got nothing.
Did the suspects resist arrest? That's the teller right there.
Did the suspects resist arrest? That's the teller right there.
Are you asking if they refused to walk into the light? Kinda hard to resist a missile from the clouds.
If there was any sort of request before hand.
Then no. It's not hard to resist a missile from the clouds.
Trump Says His 'Armed Conflict' With Drug Traffickers Does Not Involve 'Hostilities'
I believe the coin termed during the Obama Administration's dronessassination program was "mowing the lawn".
Shiny object syndrome: Ooh neat! Cultural diversity!
Child bride faces execution in Iran unless she pays £80,000 in ‘blood money’
"I gave my daughter away in a white dress, the only way you can return [is wrapped in a shroud]." talk like that makes ol' trigger kinda itchy.
You supported the Afghani boy rapists!!! Lololololol!!!
Trump’s first military order was for SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a little American girl and 9 of her little friends. We only lost one SEAL in the mission and so Trump lied to the Gold Star father and told him it was a success. You voted for that!!! 😉
Maduro has already requested planes, missiles, and air defense from Russia - and Putin has now sent them (planes at least).
The US has already dispatched the carrier group centered around the USS Gerald Ford from the Med to the Caribbean. It will arrive in the next day or three.
No surprise at all that the American media (including Reason) is a complete poodle here. This stuff has nothing to do with drugs - or those boats. You don't dispatch a carrier group unless WAR - not drug interdiction - is the intention and that group was dispatched nearly two weeks ago.
The objective is what the CIA cutout (Maria Machado - Nobel Peace Prize winner) and the VZ exiles in Florida have already loudly promised to do for many years - support an American invasion of Venezuela, to help regime change, and ensure that American companies can make a lot of money by handing over oil reserves/production.
Does the American media source anything at all? For fucks sake. I can find this stuff.
Maduro has already requested planes, missiles, and air defense from Russia - and Putin has already sent them.
That's some goose/gander shit. This is a no brainer for Putin, second only to Xi for repeatedly outsmarting our deal maker in chief.
No, it's a waste of Russian resources, as little as they actually sent (more symbolic then anything). They won't be any factor in stopping American power. Same for the Chinese, unless they are going to send troops to fight back the American invasion for Maduro. The Maduro government will fall faster then Saddam Hussain's government.
But that brings about the real problem; Nation Building. Watch out for the next Wolfowitz claiming oil revenues will pay for this. Or we'll be greated as liberators. Is America going to fund another nations rebuilding effort, while our nation falls deeper in debt? I vote, no.
Is America going to fund another nations rebuilding effort, while our nation falls deeper in debt? I vote, no
You don't get to vote on it. A big reason why Congress no longer gets involved. Those who already bought Congress don't want someone else's opinion messing things up. They intend to make a ton of money while you pay for any downside.
Same for the Chinese,
The Chinese are patient. Even if they don't immediately reimpose rare earth export controls to cut off the military, they will remember that and cut them off next year. Americans simply don't understand. We've already lost the energy transition game. China won it within the last five years. The power game we've exerted re energy for a century now is almost irrelevant. The more we dissipate our power dicking around with Venezuela, Iran, Russia, etc to exert 'control' over energy/trade, the faster everyone else in the world is going over to the China side of that.
All Good points.
Russia's contribution is symbolic and will likely stay that way. But the move is ideally suited to entice certain personality types into an attack that may have been otherwise avoided. I think that's Putin's motive.
Sigh, I can't believe we're going to do this again.
Maduro has already requested planes, missiles, and air defense from Russia - and Putin has now sent them (planes at least).
The US has already dispatched the carrier group centered around the USS Gerald Ford from the Med to the Caribbean. It will arrive in the next day or three.
Look on the bright side, Jfree. The say WWIII will be over in a few hours.
Vietnam will last for years.
The boat identified as a wedding.
It identified as a car full of aid workers with bottled water in the trunk.
lol
"Cardozo Law School professor Gabor Rona" is utterly full of shit.
International law is not established by the unilateral declarations of loud-mouthed tribunals; it is established by the actual pattern and practice of nations, especially the great powers, plus such treaties as a nation has voluntarily assented to. To claim that US practice of the last twenty-four years has been persistently violating international law, as Rona does in the linked essay, is inherently nonsense. Any proposition that contradicts the sustained pattern and practice of a great power for a generation is by definition not part of international law.
If you think Trump's acts here are immoral, by all means condemn them. But stop fucking pretending international law enacts your personal moral code.
>>The government is tying itself in knots
for whom? this is at best an 80/20 & you're in the 20
Remember, this is Sullum who saw every piece of lawfare against Trump as perfectly cogent and every defense of Democrats as ironclad even though reality was quite opposite to these characteristics. From his perspective pre-cooked spaghetti is a twisted mess.
There are a few questions you need to ask: Who's judgment does thenlaw state is to be used to make the determination if the US is being attacked? Who's judgment does the law state is used to determine how to repel that attack? What does the law state about substituting ones judgment for that of whose judgement the law states to rely upon?
"Trump Says His 'Armed Conflict' With Drug Traffickers Does Not Involve 'Hostilities'"
If men can become women, then armed conflict can be hostility free.
Trump Says His 'Armed Conflict' With Drug Traffickers Does Not Involve 'Hostilities'
Sounds mostly peaceful.
I think the precedent has been set that the President can kill anyone they want outside the country. Obama killed US citizens. Biden killed that aid worker and his children. The worst consequence they face is impeachment so why not?
I would agree with the others. Considering how normal it is for our military to engage in strikes on foreign countries, to be so apoplectic about this seems at the very least selective condemnation
I disagree with the administrations actions here, but let’s not pretend that the War on Drugs and the Global War on Terror, both of which were duly initiated by Congress, hasn’t provided the Office with enormous power and leeway.
And I’ll give Reason credit as they have been consistently against this type of use of force for at least 4 presidents now. Even if they’ve spilled more ink on drug runners then they did on *checks up thread* wedding parties, Doctors Without Borders, or aid workers.