No, It Wasn't Ironic That Second Amendment Advocate Charlie Kirk Was Shot
All liberty involves tradeoffs. So does repressing liberty.

Inevitably, in the wake of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, some observers looked at the problem of a radicalized young man who drove hundreds of miles to plan and carry out the murder of somebody whose political views he abhorred and concluded that the problem is the tool used by the assassin. A few of those observers even gloat that Kirk was shot after defending the right to keep and bear arms when he discussed the tradeoffs inherent in balancing the benefits and dangers of liberty.
Much political discourse was already stupid, but too many people want to make it even stupider.
After Kirk's assassination, amidst widespread mourning over his death as well as despicable celebrations of the conservative activist's murder, came a spate of malicious chuckling over the nature of the crime. Charlie Kirk, you see, was shot with a rifle, and he'd once called shooting deaths the price of keeping the Second Amendment. How ironic!
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Charlie Kirk on Liberty and Tradeoffs
Except that's really not what Kirk said.
I had a lot of disagreements with Kirk, but this wasn't one. His comment about the Second Amendment and deaths was part of a larger discussion about the dangers inherent in liberty. He emphasized that you can't have the good parts of being free without also suffering the negative consequences.
Asked at an April 5, 2023, Turning Point USA event about the Second Amendment, Kirk answered:
"The Second Amendment is not about hunting. I love hunting. The Second Amendment is not even about personal defense. That is important. The Second Amendment is there, God forbid, so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government….Now, we must also be real. We must be honest with the population. Having an armed citizenry comes with a price, and that is part of liberty. Driving comes with a price—50,000, 50,000, 50,000 people die on the road every year. That's a price. You get rid of driving, you'd have 50,000 less auto fatalities. But we have decided that the benefit of driving—speed, accessibility, mobility, having products, services—is worth the cost of 50,000 people dying on the road."
"You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am—I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal," he added.
Kirk might also have mentioned that free speech is also dangerous. Unfettered speech is important to the function of a free and open society. But protecting speech risks the popularization of vicious, totalitarian ideas like those of Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler. It runs the danger of the radicalization of lost souls who encounter bad ideas, embrace them, engrave "Hey fascist! Catch!" lyrics from the antifascist song "Bella Ciao" and gaming memes on rifle cartridges, and then murder their political opponents.
Undoubtedly, the same people would have found that equally ironic.
And Kirk's larger point is true across the board. Any freedom that allows us to live to our fullest, any restriction on state intervention into our lives, can be abused by the worst among us. Evil people are shielded by Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure, as are good people. We give up such protections at our peril in hopes of rooting out evil.
What peril? Kirk touched on this in his 2023 talk when he said, "the Second Amendment is there, God forbid, so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government" and noted that "governments tend to get tyrannical."
Yes, freedom can be abused by bad people. But if we can't trust everybody to use freedom wisely, why would we trust people in government to wisely administer a more restrictive regime by which they get to disarm the public, censor speech, invade homes at will, and more? Those who seek coercive power over others by working in government are at least as prone to abuse their position as is anybody else.
There are tradeoffs not just in liberty, but in restricting liberty. Given that we have a natural right to be free, and that Kirk was correct to say that all governments tend towards tyranny, we're better off trusting in more freedom, rather than less. That's a recognition that there are no risk-free options.
The Call for Gun Control Gets Even Dumber
But the focus on Kirk's death by gunshot gets even stupider. The conservative activist was reportedly killed with a single round from a Mauser Model 98 .30-06 caliber bolt-action rifle. The Mauser 98 was originally designed in the 19th century for military use but has long since been largely supplanted in that role by semi-automatic and then select-fire weapons, most using less-powerful cartridges (yes, the most common cartridges used in AR- and AK-type weapons are generally less-powerful than other cartridges used for hunting).
But the old design remains ideal for hunting large game animals. It is accurate if properly zeroed, has a longer effective range than many modern military weapons, and cartridges such as the .30-06 are likely to cleanly drop an animal with a single shot. That's why many of the old rifles were adapted, sometimes with modifications, for hunting. Modern bolt-action hunting rifles used for stalking deer, boar, elk, and the like are variations on designs that go back to the Mauser 98 and similar rifles.
That is, the hunting rifle allegedly used to murder Charlie Kirk is an example of the only type of firearm gun control advocates say they don't want to ban or restrict. No major law advocated in recent years, such as magazine capacity limits or bans on semi-automatic weapons, would have affected it.
Blame Culture?
Some observers are upset that the left—the radical fringe of it, anyway—is blamed for Kirk's murder when Tyler Robinson's family is conservative, Mormon, culturally traditional, and comfortable with firearms. But the Robinson family didn't shoot Charlie Kirk. Tyler Robinson committed this crime after he adopted views very different from those of his family, embraced the use of violence against political foes, and inscribed antifascist slogans on his ammunition before taking a fatal shot.
If we're going to delve into culture wars, we could mention the unfortunate use of speech in the social media cesspool. That's where Robinson was seemingly radicalized, where people celebrated Kirk's death, and where a few even called for more targets. But that's part of the tradeoffs of liberty.
If we're all to be free, and we should be, some will use freedom in repulsive ways. We should punish those who push action to criminal extremes. But all liberty can be misused. And not only are the risks of liberty worth the dangers, they're also far less perilous than granting governments enhanced powers that they'll inevitably abuse.
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The rainbow cult activist was a trouble young man. Not sure if there is a tranifesto.
Those celebrating Kirk’s assassination on social media and who have subsequently let go don’t get it.
There won't be a transifesto. It's pretty clear that this was coordinated by the Armed Queers cell in Utah on Discord, because there was a whole bunch of messages the day before saying that "something big" was going to happen to Kirk. We'll see if his furfag troon "roommate" throws everyone under the bus to save his own sphincter or not. The group deleted their X account after the killing happened.
Some of these freaks have got to be sweating now that they know their Discord logs are being read from a black site.
Had to google ‘furfag troon’. It’s so hard to keep up with all the new slang. In any event, that group, along with antifa (related?j should be declared terror organization.
"The Left just blew all their trust.
Normies see a nice guy doing a simple debate, not a political speech, not leading a rally or a riot, getting gunned down in 4k.
Then they see a bunch of people, even their friends, cheer and clap and dance. They ask why.
"Well, you see, he… was evil!" they cry gleefully, eyes feral.
The normie just stares at the screen. A clean cut guy with a microphone is bleeding out horrifically. It reminds them of the scared young blonde they saw bleeding out on the subway just a few days ago. A question forms.
"What did he do that made him evil?" they ask.
"He SAID things!" they scream back, a bit of spittle flying from their mouths.
"So you are happy they murdered him....for talking?"
"YESSSS!!!! You get it now!" claps their kids' teacher, their pilot, or their doctor.
The normie is horrified. Someone they trust their kids to, their health to, or their safety is acting like a foaming, raging lunatic who wants people dead because they said something they didn't like.
Do you realize how this comes across?"
Democrats don’t. They’re delusional feral things.
abhorrently sick
https://x.com/Babygravy9/status/1967499116402934166
Hyde nails it.
What he nail is the delusions and hatred by the MAGAs.
Making sense is white supremacy.
And a world without mean people (i.e. white men) is a progressive fantasy.
And YOU, Vile One, Slut, Whore, Servant, Serpent, and Slurp-Pants of the Evil One, are HELPING by repeatedly and re-sluttedly urging Your Political Enemas to cummit suicide? Tell us HOW this helps ANYONE!
Reason is leftist and celebrates his death. Therefore this article does not exist.
Just so fucking broken.
Excellent article.
"You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am—I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal," he added.
Charlie was brave to say this truth in an idiotic world. It's a tragic shame if some nutjob took this as a challenge to murder rather than a challenge to oppose authoritarianism.
It's also a tragic shame that this tragedy is bringing out the worst in so many instead of heeding Charlie's advice about the price and risks that come with freedom.
Dude, the article contradicts the narrative that tReason is leftist and celebrates the guy's murder. Either the narrative is wrong or the article does not exist. Because the narrative is never wrong, the article does not exist. That means it's a figment of the imagination.
That's OK. My comment doesn't exist either.
Youre so fucking broken too.
Always about trying to denigrate your enemies.
You, sarc, and jeff are all from the same cloth.
4 posts between you and sarc. 3 retarded strawman arguments. Grow the fuck up.
Yeah. I'm broken. OK
LOL. Mr. Kettle, thou art black.
You and your democrat fellow travelers here are nasty, lying Marxists. We’ve all had enough. So if anything, we coddle you.
Feel free to thank us for our kindness.
Calling you out for your retarded framing just hurts you so badly.
Charlie was brave to say this truth in an idiotic world. It's a tragic shame if some nutjob took this as a challenge to murder rather than a challenge to oppose authoritarianism.
The problem with this statement is that guys like the shooter think they are opposing authoritarianism with these types of actions.
It just goes to show that these types of crazy indoctrinated morons wouldn't know authoritarianism if it punched them in the face.
Of all the people they could have killed for being an authoritarian, Charlie Kirk wasn't it. Sure, he was a Christian conservative but unlike a whole lot of those types he actually practiced his faith and didn't hate the sinner, merely the sin. That is remarkable in todays world, I think.
I might not have agreed with Kirk on a variety of things, but I respected him for living his values that harmed no one.
Yes. 100% agree with all you said.
You have seen the term Christian nationalism a lot in media posts about Kirk. The same narrative that reason has often pushed.
According to Haidt, liberals are fixated on "harm reduction". And women (and soy boys) have less tolerance for risk, and promote safety, often to extremes. They strive for a controlled society more like a preschool, and are eager to serve as our nannies.
The rank-and-file may want Singapore-style justice. (some of them actually spoke out in favor of warrantless sweeps of public housing projects)
The leadership has no interest in public safety, as they support soft-on-crime policies.
they are soft on crime policies so that people will call for action of the worst order. is it a conspiracy then why be soft on crime and like Newsom close prisons just to close prisons and i see others are looking to follow that path. When all actions lead to a forseable outcome then it is no longer a conspiracy
Didnt have JD as the best, most rational article here. Good work jd.
Whereas the British have largely banned firearms, they now a have a problem with violence with bladed weapons and are now toying with banning knives.
The problem is violent people. You cannot ban all weapons those people can use. The problem being the Social Left really does not have a solution for the problem of malevolent people.
Don't forget acid attacks.
And fresh fruit. Not to mention pointed sticks.
you can ban all you like people will still kill be it with stones or as Samson who killed a thousand with the jaw bone of an ass. who knew jaw bones were so deadly, outlaw Donkeys
Last I checked, knives are banned in prison and people still get stabbed.
At what point will teaching or learning martial arts be outlawed since those hands and fists must be registered lethal weapons I wonder.
The UK murder rate is about 1/5 that of the US. Something they are doing is working.
Charlie Kirk, you see, was shot with a rifle, and he'd once called shooting deaths the price of keeping the Second Amendment.
Except that's really not what Kirk said.
Charlie Kirk, as quoted by this author immediately after he wrote that:
"You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am—I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal," he added.
Tuccille, that really is what Charlie said there.
And yes, it fits one of the many definitions of irony that someone was killed with a gun, with no indication yet that it was purchased or possessed illegally, who had said it was worth the "cost" of having "some gun deaths" in order to have the protection of the Second Amendment. It's a similar kind of irony as when the "unsinkable" Titanic sunk.
If people want to believe that a heavily armed population is necessary for protecting freedom, they have to accept that this means that more people that would use a gun to murder others will have access to guns.
As for the merits of Kirk's main argument:
The Second Amendment is not about hunting. I love hunting. The Second Amendment is not even about personal defense. That is important. The Second Amendment is there, God forbid, so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government...
I get the instinct behind this, and the appeal to the history of our Revolution. The first shots of the Revolution occurred when British soldiers went to confiscate guns and arrest the leaders after the King had declared Massachusetts to be in a state of rebellion. Seems pretty open and shut, then.
Except that isn't really how the 2nd Amendment reads. Whatever the analysis of the words of the amendment says in Heller, the militia reference has to mean something, if it was included as part of the amendment. Congress is explicitly given power over the Militia. That is why saying, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state..." does not fit with the idea that the men that wrote, debated, and voted to ratify the 2nd Amendment, or any other citizen that read it, would think that they were enshrining a right that would allow them to rise up against the government they had just created, if it got out of their control. In my mind, that doesn't make sense because of the fact that any words written in the Constitution would not be respected by a government that far out of the people's control anyway.
Once government gets so tyrannical that armed resistance is the only way to restore the people's rights, all of the other rights people have would have been long since taken from them. Violent resistance is the last line of defense of liberty, and it only becomes necessary after everything else has failed.
The choice then is whether the cost of higher rates of gun deaths really is "prudent" when having an armed populace to resist a tyrannical government is a last stop you never want to have to use. The cost of protecting free speech is that some people will say things you don't like. The cost of protecting a free press is that some news media outlets will be biased. The cost of protecting the rights of all citizens to vote, to be able to choose their government, is that the winners could implement policies you don't like.
The costs of these first lines of defense against tyranny are far lower than the cost of this last line of defense.
You do realize that most of the people that migrated to America during the colonial period came from countries that didn't allow them to own firearms back home, right? The whole point of the 2nd Amendment has been self-defense and national security from the very beginning.
The founders weren't thinking about an armed uprising back then because there was a common cultural consensus at the time. The left started dismantling that in the 1960s.
And spare us the whole "well-regulated" argument. There's dozens of state and federal laws on the books that restrict and even prohibit firearem ownership. When the left says "well-regulated," what they mean is "I want my enemies disarmed so I can destroy them if they get uppity."
The founders were thinking about armed uprisings because they were literally in the middle of one. In fact, that was one of the reasons they decided to include the 2nd amendment. They foresaw even the United States becoming authoritarian, and they wanted people to have the ability to fight back against their own government.
This is one of the reasons that bans on, say, machine guns run contra to the second amendment. Their actual intention was for individuals to own the weapons of war. There is no way around that.
"They foresaw even the United States becoming authoritarian, and they wanted people to have the ability to fight back against their own government."
This is bull. They put no ability for the people to recall politicians once elected nor any other direct democracy in the Constitution. Why would they skip that stuff and go directly to armed revolt?
Who hurt you to make you like this?
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Dunno, but this asshole is a particularly scummy pile of lefty shit:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/561/742/
Municipal respondents maintain that the Second Amendment differs from all of the other provisions of the Bill of Rights because it concerns the right to possess a deadly implement and thus has implications for public safety. Brief for Municipal Respondents 11. And they note that there is intense disagreement on the question whether the private possession of guns in the home increases or decreases gun deaths and injuries. Id., at 11, 13–17.
The right to keep and bear arms, however, is not the only constitutional right that has controversial public safety implications. All of the constitutional provisions that impose restrictions on law enforcement and on the prosecution of crimes fall into the same category. See, e.g., Hudson v. Michigan, 547 U. S. 586, 591 (2006) (“The exclusionary rule generates ‘substantial social costs,’ United States v. Leon, 468 U. S. 897, 907 (1984), which sometimes include setting the guilty free and the dangerous at large”); Barker v. Wingo, 407 U. S. 514, 522 (1972) (reflecting on the serious consequences of dismissal for a speedy trial violation, which means “a defendant who may be guilty of a serious crime will go free”); Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U. S. 436, 517 (1966) (Harlan, J., dissenting); id., at 542 (White, J., dissenting) (objecting that the Court’s rule “[i]n some unknown number of cases … will return a killer, a rapist or other criminal to the streets … to repeat his crime”); Mapp, 367 U. S., at 659. Municipal respondents cite no case in which we have refrained from holding that a provision of the Bill of Rights is binding on the States on the ground that the right at issue has disputed public safety implications.
Your understanding of irony is right in line with Alanis Morissette's. Somebody recognizing the risk something poses doesn't make it ironic that he is killed by said thing. "Jack supported the right to drink alcohol despite the health risks, and last year he was killed by a drunk driver. Irony!"
Hey now, Alanis might be smarter than you give her credit for because a song about irony that doesn't have any irony in it is actually ironic.
Ah, now I get it. That's some multi-dimensional chess there.
This just goes to show that people still don't understand what irony is.
Never forget what Paul Harding wrote.
https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-gun-enthusiast-still-claim-their-right-to-bear-arms-is-more-important-than-public-safety/answer/Paul-Harding-14
All of your Constitutional Rights come at the cost of safety.
For example, you would be much safer if I could search houses, cars, and people whenever I wanted to, for any reason, or no reason at all. I'd catch more real bad guys. You know those stories about creeps who keep sex slaves locked in their basements for years? I'd find those victims and rescue them. That neighbor of yours who might have a meth lab that is going to send poisonous fumes into your child's bedroom window, or explode and burn down your house? I'd find out for sure whether a lab was there.
How about all those guys who are probably child molesters, and we've got some evidence, but it isn't enough to convict in front of a jury, especially with that defense attorney throwing doubt all over our evidence? Those guys are on the street right now, and a child you love may be their next victim.
Give up your rights under the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments, and I'll make the world safer for you. No question about it.
The only problem is that if you give up all those rights, which are really just restrictions on the things I'm allowed to do to you, what's going to keep you safe from me?
Every right you have increases your danger from other people who share that right. Free speech? It allows monsters to spread hateful messages, possibly about a group to which you belong, just the same as it allows you to petition your government with legitimate grievances.
That free speech even allows you to argue in favor of discarding freedom and liberty as just too dangerous to trust in the hands of ordinary people. Now that, my friend, is what scares me - that people with opinions like that will spread them to weak-willed individuals who haven't really thought through the consequences. I won't argue for taking that right away, though, despite the dangers. That would be even more scary than you are.
Yes, some people in a free society are always going to abuse those freedoms. Criminals are going to hide behind the 4th amendment to conceal the evidence of their crimes. People who commit horrific acts are going to hire excellent defense attorneys who can convince a jury that doubt exists. And, yes, some people are going to use guns to commit murders.
Freedom is scary, but lack of freedom is scarier.
I saw you post this over on Ethics Alarms and it's quite accurate indeed.
For the past several days, the leftist MSM has attempted to paint the shooter as a right wing extremist.
And failed every time.
However, here is a new twist on the event in which the presenter provides what appears to be evidence of a deeper conspiracy:
https://x.com/salomondrin/status/1966255182662218099
Was there a real shooter with a cellphone gun?
Watch the video closely.
Tranny violence must be addressed soon. It cannot go on like this.
Reopen mental institutions and lock them up, along with anyone who criticizes the administration.
You should be thrown in an insane asylum too.
despicable celebrations
Dear editors:
The link in this article doesn’t work. It goes to an article about doxxing people for their political speech in an effort to silence them. Which is despicable. Celebrating is what me and my wife were doing this weekend. Maybe you should come over and eat BBQ and see what celebration actually means before linking to an article that conflates celebrating with about the actions of joyless reactionary NPCs.
Charlie Kirk was a douche. Prove Me Wrong.
Fuck off. You can think that if you want, but it is irrelevant here and you are just being shitty.
Dis-Arming Kirk by law would've saved him! /s
Seems obvious his assassin didn't care much about the law.
The left is so retarded.
I agree with the tone of the article. The 2nd amendment is around so that people can protect themselves from a tyrannical government. The definition of “tyrannical government” had been ridiculously expanded by reactionaries to include actions like increasing tax rates on the wealthy and providing medical care to all. Those, clearly, aren’t reasons for armed rebellion against the government.
It’s only when masked thugs start to take people in unmarked cars, sending US citizens to concentration camps and invading people’s houses and places of work without a warrant that ideas like shooting regime propagandists become reasonable and, indeed, patriotic.
Really? Remember the Boston Tea Party?
Of course it is ironic. It is ironic that the guy who says gun murders are the price of freedom got murdered by a gun.
It is ironic that he says people need guns to protect against tyrannical government was shot because he was a major player in the formation of a tyrannical government.
This is similar to an anti-vaxxer dying of a virus they could have gotten a vaccine for, or an anti-lifejacket person drowning in a boat accident. They all died by doing what the encouraged others to do.