Charlie Kirk Would Not Have Wanted This
A vast cancel culture campaign is a poor way to honor his legacy.
The shocking assassination of Charlie Kirk has caused understandable distress for so many Americans, including not just his fans and supporters but millions of other people who are rightly dismayed by the prospect of political violence. That's partly because we just aren't accustomed to it: While it is commonplace for politicians and media figures to warn of violent political rhetoric leading to more actual violence, it remains the case that ideologically motivated killings of national figures are blessedly rare. The targeted attacks on members of Congress such as Reps. Gabby Giffords (D–Ariz.) and Steve Scalise (R–La.), as well as the attempted assassinations of presidents Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan, and Gerald Ford, are memorable because this type of violence doesn't happen very often.
Kirk's grisly murder—which was captured on video and watched on social media by millions of people—is unusual and profoundly unsettling. Many people are processing their grief in ways that are edifying: spontaneous vigils hosted by individuals whose lives were changed by him, kind remembrances of his approach to politics penned by his ideological foes, and so on.
Others are not. In fact, many of Kirk's most ardent fans are now engaged in one of the largest mass cancellation efforts of all time: Some Republican legislators, MAGA activists, and conservative media figures are assembling watchlists with the explicit aim of silencing, firing, expelling, and perhaps even criminalizing any and all anti-Kirk sentiment. Rep. Clay Higgins (R–La.) wants to use explicit government pressure to crush anyone who "ran their mouth" and belittled the gravity of Kirk's death; top Trump advisor Stephen Miller is vowing some kind of unspecified crackdown on the right's political enemies; and conservative influencers are writing down the names and professions of Kirk besmirchers and calling their employers. Vice President J.D. Vance, filling in as a guest host on Kirk's show, instructed viewers to engage in unrestricted cancelling.
When it comes to cancel culture, it is always necessary to draw distinctions and register certain caveats. Criticism is not necessarily cancellation, and not every person currently under attack for having said something ugly about Kirk is a victim. The First Amendment is a bulwark against government action: It does not mean everyone can say whatever they want and suffer no consequences. If your boss fires you, you aren't being censored—unless the government twisted your boss's arm. (See: jawboning.)
That said, it's worth keeping in mind that many commentators—ranging from classical liberals and free speech centrists on the left-of-center to many folks on the hard right—have embraced a larger view of free speech and cancel culture: It's better to live in a world where people don't get fired or expelled because they tweeted something stupid.
And yes, it's true that there's a difference between canceling someone for welcoming the death of Kirk and canceling someone for tweeting something homophobic when they were 14 years old. There is also a big difference between canceling someone for justifying violence against Kirk and canceling someone who merely objects to his views, behavior, and political project. Furthermore, there's a major difference between canceling someone in a public-facing communications role and canceling someone who is otherwise obscure.
Let's consider three examples of post-Kirk cancellation attempts that aptly demonstrate why caution, discernment, and forgiveness are important.
1. Shane Gillis' Audio Engineer
Students for Trump activist Ryan Fournier attacked Shane Gillis—an anti-woke comedian who was himself canceled by the left and subsequently rehabilitated—for employing an audio technician who called Kirk a nazi.
"Is this who Shane Gillis has running his sound?" asked Fournier.
Gillis responded: No, it isn't. On X, he shared a photo of his actual sound guy, an entirely different person (who certainly looks the part of "Shane Gillis sound guy"). The tech person identified by Fournier was just a random person who helped with sound for one of Gillis's shows at some point in the past. Gillis probably doesn't get to handpick the camera guy or the sound guy—or the janitor or the plumber—at every venue he's ever visited. No one does! Being mad at Gillis about this is exceedingly lame, and people are rightly dragging Fournier on X.
But this just goes to show how lazy and careless attempts at cancellation can become. Again, this was something the right was well aware of during the heyday of wokeness, circa 2014–2022. Targeting ordinary, working people for unwise statements on social media should be viewed with skepticism.
2. Teachers Who Don't Like Kirk
Conservatives have drawn particular attention to a large number of primary educators who have made ugly comments about Kirk. This is a trickier subject, because parents have every right to object to the manner in which their kids are educated. The best solution, of course, is school choice: Let families decide which school environments are best aligned with their own values.
Even so, it seems wrong to me to attempt to get a teacher fired for merely saying that she really doesn't like what Kirk stood for. This was the case with a first-grade teacher called out by Libs of TikTok, the ultimate social media scalp hunter, who said the teacher described Kirk as "a gross racist, awful person who fueled the fires of division…please stop acting like he was some hero."
The ellipsis cut out this important disclaimer: "he didn't deserve to die, but."
If a parent does not want their child to be educated by someone who dislikes Kirk, we should support any and all policies that would make it easier for that parent to enroll their child in a different environment. But merely expressing an opinion about Kirk should obviously not be a firing offense, particularly since the view was posted to social media—it was not uttered in the classroom itself.
3. Karen Attiah, Good Riddance
Then there's the case of Karen Attiah, a Washington Post columnist and global opinions editor, who was fired by the paper for comments she made about Kirk on Bluesky. This strikes me as a case where the cancellation was justified.
To be clear, Attiah should not have lost her job for merely disagreeing with, or criticizing, Kirk. Yet she contends that this is exactly what happened.
"I am the one being silenced—for doing my job," she writes on her new Substack.
The Bluesky posts in question were troll-ish and unflattering—"America, especially white America is not going to do what it needs to do to get rid of guns in this country"—though Attiah is entitled to her opinion. What she is not entitled to do, as a journalist and editor, is manipulate someone else's quote.
Attiah, by her own admission, wrote a post on Bluesky in which she quoted Kirk saying the following: "Black women do not have the brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person's slot."
Kirk never said this: Watch the clip. What he said was that the achievements of four specific black women—former First Lady Michelle Obama, former MSNBC host Joy Reid, Supreme Court Associate Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and former Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D–Texas)—were suspect because of affirmative action; the existence of racial preferences casts a pall over their selections for various positions. One can certainly criticize the point or disagree with how he worded it (Michelle Obama, diversity hire?), but he did not say the words attributed to him by Attiah. And she put it in quotes, which is journalistic malpractice.
That's a fundamentally different situation. Opposing cancel culture does not mean there should be zero accountability for anyone in a public role. It only means that those of us who denounced the excesses of woke enforcement during the late 2010s should similarly reject a rightwing counterreaction that seeks to unperson anyone who does not hold Kirk in sufficient esteem.
It's also worth keeping in mind that Kirk disdained cancel culture and loved debate—seriously, he relished the fray more than most, and enjoyed mixing it up with people who obviously disliked him. Launching a vast and unscrupulous campaign to silence everyone who shares an unkind thought about Kirk is a poor way to honor his legacy.
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Team blue’s rainbow cult member murdered a man for what he said. People upset about the folks openly celebrating the assassination are asking employers to reconsider their relationships with those celebrating. Just speech. There are sometimes consequences to being a douchebag. Those trying to boaf sidez it are being disingenuous.
Normal people will remember the job losses, grocery and gas prices when it's time to cast the ballot. Voters will not remember a right wing pundit, just like they didnt remember jan 6, g floyd, school shootings et al. This will not make history more than any other random act of violence in this country, the people dont care.
Right wingers are loud, sure, but those that gave them the benefit of the doubt in 2024 have heard enough.
5.56 will remember trying to find his tiny micropenis to furiously masturbate to videos of Kirk's assassination.
Normal people will never care who 5.56 is, or what he thinks.
The grey box has never posted anything of value and likely never will.
The american indifference isn't my fault. Im just the messenger here. Americans really don't care, so enjoy your 5 minutes of fame I guess.
I dont care if you care what I think. It's right wingers that constantly need attention and get very very angry when they don't get it.
The "right wingers" just want to be left alone while the Left tries to impose their agenda on everybody. So WHO's the one wanting attention this whole time?
Who is telling you all that? The retarded voices on your head?
You’re delusional.
Fuck you. Name and shame the assholes who want us dead. I'll take my freedom to not associate with them.
No offense, Robby, but "The ellipsis cut out this important disclaimer: "he didn't deserve to die, but.""
The "but" terminated any disclaimer.
"Sure she should not have been raped, but did you see what she wore?" would not be viewed as actually opposing a rape.
The fact that people feel the need to say this really does demonstrate a bit of a problem. "I'm not saying I agree with murdering people I disagree with, BUT..."
You don't need to talk out of both sides of your mouth when condemning political assassinations. You can put a bit of air between the denunciation of violence and your disagreements with the victim.
Sadly, much of the right has adopted it in a deranged Stockholm Syndrome - "I didn't agree with everything Charlie Kirk had to say, but..."
"But-monkeys" are an exhausting bunch....
"...The "but" terminated any disclaimer..."
Yes. Example, 'I support the first amendment, but'
IOWs, you don't.
Charlie Kirk Would Not Have Wanted This
Charlie Kirk was a moderate and a Christian and lived his life accordingly.
I am neither. The left has been protected from consequences for far too long. I will support and participate in consequences.
Nice re-write of history. Mike Pence was a moderate. Charlie Kirk bussed people to Jan 6 and the Jan 6 crowd wanted to hang Mike Pence. Kirk also supported the pardons for the Jan 6 people who beat cops etc...
Kirk was a MAGA fanatic. So maybe under the modern MAGA GOP definition he is moderate where the only litmus test is loyalty to MAGA. But by any reasonable objective criteria, he was not a moderate.
LOL, Kirk was one of the last remaining conservatives after the last decade of your bullshit who thought your side was still worth debating. Thanks for proving that such faith was misplaced.
Oh dear Kirk bussed people to a political rally!!! Say it ain't so.
Don't real lawyers actually go and verify the claims they make? Because you didn't here.
"Mike Pence was a moderate."
Your side felt he was a Bible-thumping extremist.
Your side also thought Mitt Romney wanted to bring back slavery.
It’s sickening they try to gaslight like this thinking anyone will fall for it
My side? I don't have a side. I know that Charlie Kirk was pissed at Pence for not following Trump's plan for stealing the election. Kirk's words below:
"So the final outcome can be this: Believe it or not, there is a almost guaranteed way Donald Trump serves four more years. It's this simple. Mike Pence listens to the objections, he listens to the claims and the complaints, and he says "based on the power and the authority granted to me as President of the United States Senate, and my oath to the Constitution of the United States, I refuse to certify at this very moment the election results of Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Therefore no person, no candidate, has reached a 270 majority threshold, and the United States House of Representatives shall decide this election." Gavel out.
Kirk was fine with throwing out the votes of 7 states; disregarding the Constitution and installing Trump as president despite losing the election. Kirk is not himself a lawyer - he didn't even finish undergrad if memory serves. What he could do very well, though, is repeat MAGA bullshit to his large audience of idiots and make lots of money grifting for MAGA.
And Pence was a bible humping moron. That is true. But in today's GOP, that is moderate if that is all they are. Unlike Kirk, who also was a bible humping moron, but advocated to make his views law and impose some kind of weird christo-fascist worldview on the rest of us. Which is the difference between Pence and Kirk and makes Pence moderate in comparison.
Why does every fucking leftist here deny they have a side? Don't you see it just makes you far more dishonest than we already know you are?
Is that part of Act Blue 101 training?
My side? I don't have a side.
Yes you do. Your type is never shy to show it.
Might want to change your username. It's not going to provide you any creds as a legal authority. Not after that post.
Try not to cry when ICE and the NG swarm in to clean up your cesspool of a city. Actually, go ahead and cry. Those tears are delicious.
Right wing revolution oooorrraaaaahhhh!!!!! 😀
Lmao conservatives are so done done
It's called justice.
Your wish can only be fulfilled by shooting a man in the neck. Just so you know, we won't go down so easily without a fight.
Your remarks are EVIL.
My side? I don't have a side.
LOL, stop lying.
"My side? I don't have a side."
If you believe that, you are an imbecilic slimy pile of shit.
Certainly possible as you have proven yourself to be an abysmally stupid pile of lefty shit.
Did you have point, asswipe?
By any reasonable objective criteria, you are a lying sack of shit. Honestly you DNC trolls really need to update your talking points. You've already lost the current narrative. But I'm sure you can do better. You would do better to just kick back and wait for your overlords to dictate the talking point of the day. Not that anybody gives a shit what you have to say about anything but you are a useful tool to keep the rest of us up to date on the latest DNC fever dream. I for one am grateful for your efforts as humiliating as it obviously is for you.
Still not something that justifies murdering him.
You would best look into yourself in the mirror with everything you've said for years.
Mike “Pray the Gay Away” Pence was not a fucking moderate. But that’s a nice bit of revisionism.
"Pray the Gay Away" is as moderate as it gets. There are a huge number of folks who would like to deal with the gay problem in a much harsher, immediate, and final way.
And I won't lie, their siren's song is a strong one. I can attest how easily it is to want to fall to it. The gays do need to be dealt with, and permanently removed from society - there's no debating that point. But Pence was one able to resist the call to violence against them.
And you criticize him for that?
I admit, I think “Hate the sin, love the sinner” is the moderate approach. “Pray the Gay Away” would be the conservative approach and “throw them off the roof of a building” would be the extremist approach.
And it wasn’t a criticism per se, more of an illustration of why windy was wrong to say that Kirk was more extreme than Pence.
You lot truly are idiots. Kirk said the Bible calling for stoning gay people to death was and I quote: "God's perfect law when it comes to sexual matters." That is a direct quote.
How the f is that more moderate than praying the gay away? He advocated or at least approved MURDER of all homosexuals.
Make him a saint. Give him medals. Do whatever. It's just another desperate attempt to rehabilitate an abhorrent person. Not the first time. I can't wait for Trump to kick the bucket and the re-write of his legacy that is forthcoming. It's going to be epically... stupid and completely dishonest. Just like with Kirk.
Charlie Kirk did not say he wanted to stone gay people. This claim stems from a misinterpretation or exaggeration of a specific comment he made on his podcast in June 2024, during a discussion about YouTuber Ms. Rachel's promotion of Pride Month. In that exchange, Kirk referenced Leviticus 20:13 (a Bible verse that prescribes death by stoning for men who lie with men) and described it as "God's perfect law when it comes to sexual matters." He was critiquing what he saw as selective quoting of the Bible by Ms. Rachel, who had cited "love your neighbor" from Leviticus to support LGBTQ acceptance. Kirk's full quote was: "By the way, Ms. Rachel, you might want to crack open that Bible of yours. In a lesser reference, part of the same part of scripture, is in Leviticus 18, is that ‘thou shall lay with another man shall be stoned to death.’ Just saying." (Note: The verse is actually Leviticus 20:13, and Leviticus 18 addresses sexual prohibitions without specifying stoning.)
Kirk's statement was a rhetorical point about biblical consistency from his conservative Christian perspective, where he views homosexual acts as sinful. He did not explicitly or implicitly call for stoning anyone in modern times, advocate for its implementation as law, or express a personal desire for it. He has consistently opposed same-sex marriage and LGBTQ "agendas" in public statements, often framing them as contrary to biblical teachings, but he has not promoted violence or execution. For instance, in a September 2024 interaction with a gay college student, Kirk said, "I don’t agree with your lifestyle," but emphasized disagreement without endorsing harm.
I was referencing his comments to Jack Posobiac but whatever sane washing you want to do...please carry on.
Kirk was intentionally controversial since that is what makes clicks in today's world. Clicks = revenue for him and he made lots of it. He was also rabidly MAGA and would carry water for any bs MAGA position spouted by the regime. Like the quote above about how Pence can simply throw out the electoral college votes of 7 states so Trump can successfully complete a bloodless coup. He was a main relay in the right wing echo sphere and propagandist.
I quote: "God's perfect law when it comes to sexual matters." That is a direct quote.
Yes, God's perfect law when it comes to sexuality is (among other things) don't sleep with the same sex. That is an undeniable, irrefutable fact. The chapter is literally called "The Sanctity of Sex."
As for its consequences, "Penalties for Various Sins," as it's called, you're thinking of it (and maybe even Charlie was thinking of it) as a civil code of laws. Under Mosiac Law, yea - that straight up applied. To the theocracy of the Nation of Israel. (I'm pretty sure, but feel free to correct me, that the Jews - if only the Orthodox Jews - are still pretty committed to this.)
But then we have Christ who fulfills the prophecies and covenants (Jews disagree) and we're no longer talking about the Nation of Israel - but rather the Christian World. And while the Nation of Israel might regard "death" under Mosiac Law as a literal "we will kill your mortal body for this sin" (which it was), Christ's references to death are always spiritual, "this will separate you from God and imperil your eternal soul when it's your time for divine judgment."
Hence why He died on the cross for us. All sin leads to death, and we are all mired in sin. But Christ took the penalty FOR us, and only IN Christ are we now saved from death. And that means rejecting sin - in this case, the specific sin of homosexuality.
Christians are not called upon to intentionally kill ANYONE. And if they do, their souls are in mortal peril unless they repent. If you think Kirk was saying anything short of that as it applied to the scourge of homosexuality, then you're misunderstanding him. Probably intentionally.
Oh great meat grinder --
Left and Right,
Dividing their noises into wings
Can never find what side you're on
In the echo chambers of things
First you kill here,
Then you kill there
While you are the national leader
Far greater than what the people have vetted
Superman briefly setted
So precise you cannot possibly be ill
That you come -- even here! -- to kill
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/entertainment/2025/09/13/sarasota-stephen-king-apologizes-for-false-claim-about-charlie-kirk/86135037007/#
Even Stephen King realized he was full of shit repeating that lie and apologized 3 days ago for it, but here you are running your fucking pie hole anyways. And you have the audacity to say we’re idiots?
Go fuck yourself.
I'd posit that "hate the sin, love the sinner" and "pray the gay away" are essentially the same thing. (And, let's face it, these days the moderate stance and the conservative stance are largely indistinguishable in the face of the extremists on the left and far right.)
If it helps, think of it as pray the sin away. Because make no mistake, "the gay" is 100% sinful. There isn't one iota of a homosexual lifestyle/activity that isn't sinful. And that even includes empowering that lifestyle/activity as a non-homosexual (an "ally," to use their term).
Praying the gay away is loving the sinner (you want him to turn away from his sinful deeds/way of life), but showing zero tolerance or rationalization for the sin itself and offering it no quarter. The Church, in case you're curious, takes a pretty clear stance that affirming the sinner, if only by tolerance, is effectively taking part in the sin itself and has a corrosive effect on the Christian. This is why Christians dance on a razor's edge with something as seemingly-benign as attending a "gay wedding" (and why there is no such thing as a "gay marriage"). There's room for discernment and prudence there, but either way you should probably seek Reconciliation after making your choice.
Remember that at the end of the day, it's all about remorse and redemption. Never condemnation. You have to A) acknowledge your sinful ways; B) renounce them; C) seek redemption; and D) as Christ Himself put it, "go forth and sin no more."
"Hate the sin, love the sinner" and "pray the gay away" both seek the same thing: transformation, via truth and mercy.
You’ve given me something to ponder. Thank you.
Ironically --- the people who want to deal with the gay issue harshly are the Left's precious Palestinians.
Great. People who have absolutely zero chance of representing themselves now being maligned. So, they be rarer than mad honey in this forum?
Your kid are assassins, or apologists for them. Time for you to go.
Leave on you own, while it’s still up to you.
I have seen too many people hurt by left wing cancel culture, including someone I cared about for far less than cheering the death of another person. It destroyed the person I knew. Until there are at least two lefties losing their jobs for everyone who was hurt by the left's own cancel culture or the left agrees to heavy reparations to every victim of cancel culture, I say "Make them pay."
All lefties should lose their jobs, and they certainly shouldn’t be allowed to participate in government in any way.
Right wingers are sick fucks that live in glass houses. No one is more divisive than Trump and Rush Limbaugh before him. You fucking losers will not say the same about the right even though a radical righty killed Melissa Hortman and had an entire list of Democrats to kill. So SHUT THE FUCK UP you hate filled clowns
This particular right-wing nut, Kirk, mocked the brutal assault of Paul Pelosi. Any of you sick fucks say shit about your radical right friend? How many of you knew that guy?
No. Hortman didn't make any kills. People didn't celebrate or condone what happened to Paul Pelosi. YOUR side made the kill. YOUR side had people dancing and celebrating the murder of a political opponent. That's all YOU.
Your post is a disgusting case of blaming the victim. You are an evil poster. Repent!
Nope. You people have been caught murdering again, and we’ve had enough.
You might as well stop lying. No one is buying. Just sit quietly while we decide what to do about you.
You mad, bro?
Haha. What a loser.
What, I thought everyone was waiting for an online course in Charlie Kirk 101 now that the LEFT removed his copyright.
"Michelle Obama, diversity hire?"
Got a job with a hospital as Obama's career took off and when she left after he won the WH, the hospital never filled her old position.
Doesn't seem like a real job, honestly.
EDIT: I do not care if anybody disliked Kirk. Posting videos joyously celebrating his video is fucked the hell up and if your job is paid by taxpayers, yes, your job should cease to be.
I'd also suggest anybody who works with these people to discuss how unsafe you feel with them there with your HR department. They, legally, cannot ignore you.
When Barack was elected Senator Michelle received a pay raise of something like 180,000. [of 180k, not to 180k].
Your spouse goes to the Senate, you become a lot more employable, regardless of your skin color.
The hospital never filled her former position. It was created for her and retired when she left.
Totes coincidental.
Illinois democrats do love those no show jobs.
So you're for political corruption, that's not much of a libertarian position.
Maybe Michelle Obama was not technically a diversity hire. The other possibility is that she was handed a six figure "no work" job as a political bribe for her husband.
Soave treats this as if it is unthinkable to question her hiring at all.
Bingo.
The ellipsis cut out this important disclaimer: "he didn't deserve to die, but..."
Look at the way he was dressed!
Really, Fruit Sushi? At least you've cut out your, "To be sures," a bit... still have a nasty, "BOAF SIDEZ," tendency. Probably genetic.
Teachers *should* be held to that higher standard, & parents have every right to behold them as such, especially since they have a monopoly on education as whole. You're correct about school choice & dissolution of Federal & State DoEs, but until that Magical Libertarian Educational Panacea appears...
Shaming is not cancellation, nor is being discharged from employment an infringement upon 1A rights. Period. Full Stop. End of Story. Which applies in cases 1) & 3). Case 2) is a check on that disproportionate scope of power & influence, to the extent that can be meted out.
Those teachers can run their digital mouths regardless of employment status.
*Even so, it seems wrong to me to attempt to get a teacher fired for merely saying that she really doesn't like what Kirk stood for.*
Teacher 101 is don't post anything on social media that your kids shouldn't see or hear. This is a rule despite the fact that many or most hyper-left teachers spout this kind of shit in the classroom on the regular. That they now get caught thanks to cellphones and definitely-for-safety Covid zooms is a good thing.
Hey, you taxpayer-raping shrew. Go fuck yourself. Don't talk to any kid ever again as long as you live. You are a cancerous blight on society. Take your "skill set" to the private sector.
"doesn't like what he stood for" is really downplaying the situation. 6 months ago, sure disagree and make a case but today we're talking about celebrating his murder over differences in opinion.
Ersatz 1 day ago
When your first public reaction to an event like this is a pointed disregard of the act itself, and a disparaging remark about the victim it is the same as the footer to all political ads...
"I'm Joe Asshole and I approve that act."
Also, Fruit Sushi, unless you're capable of performing a seance with the recently-murdered-in-cold-blood-in-front-of-his-wife and children, your spectacular hubris suggesting what Charlie Kirk would want (pretty fucking sure he didn't want to be assassinated in cold blood - regardless of understanding the potential risks) is absolutely staggering, Soave.
Your presumption is pretty sickening, really. Carry on with your stupid, "To be sures..." And learn how to change a fucking tire while you're at it.
I'm going to be fair to Robby here and agree that, yes, Charlie didn't support cancel culture at all. The whole point of him going to these colleges was to engage his political opponents, on their turf, and show that a debate could be had between sides. He even said one time that the whole point of doing this was to try and stop a revolution from happening. He went to have debates with them and they killed him for it, because he wouldn't knuckle under to their retarded political theology.
All this did was demonstrate that the left traffics in special pleading, and that if they think you deserve to die, you should. "I don't support political violence, but" actually means "I support political violence."
The left's complaints about this are insincere and don't need to be taken seriously.
I'm going to be fair to Robby here and agree that, yes, Charlie didn't support cancel culture at all.
Strictly speaking, that's a true statment. He did not want impediments to honest and authentic discourse. He gave his life for it. Dammit. He was Cancelled in the most literal of ways. And, I admit, i'm angry about it. He lived his Mission Statement.
That said, Kirk was also a strong proponent of, "Free Speech with Awareness of Consequence." You could see it in how he approached all those hostile crowds, giving even those who did not (to me) derserve the patience & fair hearing he gave to each of the interlocutors with whom he verbally sparred. Meaning, these people are not being "cancelled", per se. Just having the Mirror of Accountability being held to their faces and for all the world to see.
If they are shamed, so be it. Their speech rights aren't taken away, which Kirk would find abhorrrent, but, Kirk also consistently espoused accountability of action, which Fruit Sushi is glossing over in the first two cases.
In all cases, regardless of employment status, all actors here are still able (to my knowledge) say whatever insincere, vapid, sociopathic tripe they wish.
I'll cotton to being one of Rob's defenders on here if only because he's one of the rare journalists that has gotten a shitton of flak for doing nothing more than actually looking beyond the surface level of a story. The Anna Merlan incident during the UVa rape hoax story ultimately led to that story completely falling apart, and it was mainly because that dumb bitch caused the Streisand Effect on Robby's reporting. Same thing with Nicholas Sandmann; no way he gets that big payout from CNN if Robby hadn't done what should have been the bare fucking minimum for any journalist, and watched the whole damn video instead of the social media clip that got passed around, in what became a foreshadowing of the Great Tard-rage of 2020.
The hemming and hawing he does obviously comes from being ensconced in the Acela Corridor, but he's also taken risks to his own career just for doing the most basic bitch journalism these lazy, partisan fucks can't be bothered to undertake. So I'll always be a fan of his even when I don't like his takes.
The Anna Merlan incident during the UVa rape hoax story ultimately led to that story completely falling apart, and it was mainly because that dumb bitch caused the Streisand Effect on Robby's reporting. Same thing with Nicholas Sandmann; no way he gets that big payout from CNN if Robby hadn't done what should have been the bare fucking minimum for any journalist, and watched the whole damn video instead of the social media clip that got passed around, in what became a foreshadowing of the Great Tard-rage of 2020.
That's compelling. And a good bit Charlie Kirking there, Rocksey...
I'll keep that in mind goind forward, & try to give Sushster a bit more a break & be (a little less) combative. Good on him & thank you for the info. I can respect anyone who takes a major (if not a potential death knell) risk to his or her career....
And then he got his politico gig and called balsey Ford credible.
Yeah. All of these people who think Robby is somehow a voice of reason in the world of Reason have not been paying attention. He's certainly ambitious and has a TV show and is a Fox News talking head. But his only real appeal , aside from his fabulous hair, is that he can mouth milk toast pablum and call it libertarian. Go back and read his Kavanaugh coverage. It's beyond pathetic. He's a sad little man worthy only of sympathy. Not respect.
Eh, I'll always be a Robby fan if, for nothing else, I wish I had the man's hair. Dude could have grown into one of those "elder statesman" local news anchors that started in the late 60s and retired by the time Y2K rolled around if he'd been born a few decades earlier.
Charlie didn't support cancel culture at all. The whole point of him going to these colleges was to engage his political opponents, on their turf, and show that a debate could be had between sides.
This is one of the reasons Charlie was so admirable so undeserving of his fate.
Rob's defenders on here if only because he's one of the rare journalists that has gotten a shitton of flak for doing nothing more than actually looking beyond the surface level of a story.
Yeah, Robby's also admirable. I think few realize Robby broke both those stories nation wide. Either one of those alone is worth a lifetime pass to me.
Agreed.
It’s also why his take on Blasey-Ford was so disappointing.
posted my repost of my comment in the wrong spot - appears just above yours.
When your first public reaction to an event like this is a pointed disregard of the act itself, and a disparaging remark about the victim it is the same as the footer to all political ads...
"I'm Joe Asshole and I approve that act."
Thanks Groovus. You said it better than I would have.
Groovus remembers the real Robby. I had forgotten that he earned the title Fruit Sushi. And that was before he came out of the closet. As a conservative I mean.
“And learn how to change a fucking tire while you're at it”
I’m sure he knows. He just doesn’t want to break a nail. Robby gets his nails dome at the same place as Cory Booker, and they aren’t cheap.
This article comes off as "this is what Jesus would want/do" from an atheist.
Kirk had zero problem exposing insane ideas of the left. That's all that is being done. Because businesses are being forced to see what their employees are doing is causing the actions.
What was Reason’s take when Biden was strongly encouraging private entities from deplatforming from conservative and libertarian voices?
Muh Private Companies if I remember.
When it is only individual entities is is bad but when their daddy Biden used govt to coerce it they were totes ok with it?
It’s (D)ifferent.
This periodical could rebrand as Dicked magazine.
Kirk did say what Karen Attiah said he did. She did not get the quote perfect word for word, but he did say that.
No. He didnt. Which is why she was fired. You dont have to lie to justify your teams murder.
Yes she does. It's the only way lefties can justify anything.
The video linked has him saying that. MAGAs are dipshits who can't tell their fantasy land from reality.
LOL, the irony of this statement would blot out the sun.
Rorshach?
Rorschach would make short work of Tony.
No. It doesn't.
What he said is linked in the article you stupid lying fuck. Just go watch it. Or is the narrative too important for truth?
Dude the video backs up my claim.
It specifically does not.
I assume English is your second language as lying is clearly your first.
Don’t forget Tony’s stupidity and poor verbal/reading comprehension.
You mean he basically agrees with Moynihan, democrat from the 60s, on the breakdown of black families and engendered dependence on welfare? Lol.
Fuck off doc retard.
None of us are as dumb as you Charlie and shrike, so your lies won’t work here, Doc.
Youre still mad about Trump's disparate impact EO aren't you?
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
Charlie Kirk Would Not Have Wanted This
That's probably true. But it fails to come to terms with the fact that Kirk's approach, while creditable, still wound up with him getting shot through the jugular in front of his wife and kids. I'm not saying the approach is necessarily wrong. But, trying to get around the fact Kirk's death revealed that at least a sizeable part of the country's population is willing to kill us by proxy is more insulting than persuasive.
There is no proxy, they just needed enough support and encouragement to go through with their evil and equivocating BS like this is the least of the support they hot from our Marxist media.
I think Charlie Kirk would not have wanted his children to grow up without their father because some deranged lefty thought murder was preferable to discussion.
The targeted attacks on members of Congress such as Reps. Gabby Giffords (D–Ariz.)...
Loughner was psychotic so a different example of targeted political violence might have been more appropriate.
I find the cancellation feeding frenzy unworthy of Kirk's legacy, but as an employer I would probably want to know if my representative to the public was someone so brainwashed, so inside a bubble much smaller than they imagined, that they felt comfortable sharing contempt for a murder victim on platforms that easily tie them to my business. Teachers, especially, who are so clueless as to think that everyone but a small minority of deplorables agrees with them that Kirk deserved his assassination could be at ease telling children any number of questionable things.
Teachers, especially, who are so clueless as to think that everyone but a small minority of deplorables agrees with them that Kirk deserved his assassination could be at ease telling children any number of questionable things.
And that, My Dear Fisty, is why they should be held to that higher standard.
As it's been suggesting to me, a benchmark of wisdom is knowing when to employ restraint of tongue, pen, & digital ink...
And that, My Dear Fisty, is why they should be held to that higher standard.
I wouldn't call it a higher standard. I'd call it a normal standard. The left just hasn't been held to it for the last decade-plus.
BTW, Groovus, it's good to see you back on here. I could swear it's been, what, a decade?
Yes, actually almost 12 years...
It's been a minute. I remember you as, "Red Rocks Rockin'," yes?
Thank you & likewise.... felt sentimental, and this Charlie Kirk situation really has me fired up. In a healthy way.
I greatly admired the man & singularity of purpose. He will be missed.
A lot of us, including the board ex-pats who set up Glibertarians, were legitimately worried something had happened to you during all the protests.
Well, I will swing by there & say hello.
And thank you, I appreciate it.
Let's just say, besides finding a wife & starting a family, The Great Donetsk Experiment in Free Market Medicine was a dangerious failure. No shit, we nearly got killed. So, we had to head to the UK.
That's another story in itself.
Took a bit to get her in the Legal Immigration Process - which is a pickle in itself - & been back in the states for over two years. It's been a massive adjustment for us all and a wild ride, to say the least...
Welcome back.
The second the Ukraine story broke here I thought of you. Glad to see you back and congrats on the family!
Groovus left? Huh. I didn't realize. Of course, I always only ever read my own comments.
I don't blame you, they're pretty awesome.
As I've pointed out elsewhere, the social contract isn't a one-way street. It requires everyone to agree to a basic set of principles, follow those principles, and marginalize and shun those who don't until they agree to follow them, or go elsewhere. For over 50 years, the left's guiding principle has been, "It's okay when we do it." It's literally codified as such in Marcuse's "Repressive Tolerance," even though the roots of it go all the way back to the French Revolution and the Committees of Public Safety and General Security.
The Democrats were finally able to keep their most aggressively retarded followers wrangled after a decade and a half of left-wing domestic terrorism that lasted from 1968-1983. Obama's re-election convinced them that they had free rein to exercise their core principle again, since the jug-eared fucker was funding them via the USAID spiderweb, which is ultimately how we got here to begin with.
The left has forgotten that no one has infinite patience, least of all their political enemies. And openly celebrating the assassination of someone who didn't use words they liked certainly puts a neat bow on the era of "ideas." De-escalation only works when your opponents haven't demonstrated over the last decade-plus that they're willing to escalate with "direct action" to not just ruin your life, but to end it for opposing them.
The social contract is why I wear pants. It’s why I drive the speed limit, and on the right side of the street. It’s why I don’t fart in crowded elevators.
If the social contract were abrogated to the point that everyone around me was violating it, I probably would too.
The social contract is not why I don’t commit murder or rape. It is not why I don’t lie, cheat, and steal. Even if everyone else were doing those things — probably especially if everyone else were doing them — I would not.
Because I am not a piece of shit. The more pieces of shit there are in this world, the more important it is that I not be one more.
Punishing people for what they believe — even if what they believe is “people should be punished for what they believe” — is exactly the kind of behavior that needs to stop.
How does sharing a video posted by the person in question serve as punishment?
They wanted attention.
They got it.
Like former County Clerk Kim Davis?
They aren’t being punished for what they believe, they aren’t praying silently outside an abortion clinic -they are being punished for their actions.
Unhinged loons who approve of violence shouldn’t be teaching young people. Those with no respect for the civil rights of others don’t belong in government , Like KKK members.
The social contract is a lot more than the false dichotomy you've posted here.
As I've pointed out elsewhere, the social contract isn't a one-way street. It requires everyone to agree to a basic set of principles, follow those principles, and marginalize and shun those who don't until they agree to follow them, or go elsewhere. For over 50 years, the left's guiding principle has been, "It's okay when we do it."
Awesome. The social contract isn't a one-way street, and it is only the left going the wrong direction.
It's not like I haven't posted the text here before.
This is the slimy pile of lefty shit who supports government murder of an un-armed woman;
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
Loughner was also a lefty. Is this really cancel culture anymore than reporting an employee to HR? This isn't some unrelated, out of context clip from 10 years ago but actual public interactions of today presented for what they are.
Charlie Kirk believed in Good and Evil.
He did not believe in tolerating (let alone rationalizing) Evil or respecting its "right" to exist and flourish and poison otherwise Good people.
Charlie Kirk did not view the college students who disagreed with him as Evil. Just susceptible to it. God knows their teachers are trying their hardest, and I'm willing to be Kirk viewed them as Evil ("You should be ashamed of your father."). But he was willing to engage the students, and even some of their evil teachers, consider what they had to say, show them respect, and offer alternative ways of thinking.
That is not what we're talking about when we discuss what grown men and women are penning openly under their own names on social media, who are so despicably Evil that they think there should be zero social consequence for doing something so plainly Evil.
I get it Robby. You're trying your hardest as a loyal servant to mitigate the fallout of this assassination, because of how badly it's exposed the Left for what they are.
You will not succeed.
My advice, for all it's worth, repent and pray for forgiveness. You can only hide in your cerulean towers for so long.
In another post you're saying that gay people need to be dealt with and permanently removed from society. Here you tell someone to repent and pray like the deluded sick fuck you are.
How could I ever believe anything good can come out of conservatives? You guys just lost your appeal on the economy too. And on free speech, there's not a hint of opposition to cancel culture anymore.
What do you have now? Gun rights, i guess?
Yeah, you fags hate it when your evil shit is turned against you.
In another post you're saying that gay people need to be dealt with and permanently removed from society. Here you tell someone to repent and pray like the deluded sick fuck you are.
Language.
Anyway, yes. Your point? The latter accomplishes the former.
How could I ever believe anything good can come out of conservatives?
Maybe you shouldn't look to politics and sociology - let alone the so-called spirit of the age - for your definitions of Good and Evil.
Try this instead.
Expect better than Confucius.
However, I think much faster to find evil and quarantine it for its trifling significance than to bother with reading, if reading be what does harm for now.
Bamm! In the wrong and on the blade end of law to boot. Hmmm. Almost looks legal to act :haha:
Kirk was a deeply dishonest man preaching hate and calling it love. Given your dishonesty and cruelty it's hardly surprising you'd fall for his bullshit,
What was he dishonest about?
Isn't the counter to vile speech supposed to be more speech? Well, there it is. The counter to vile speech about Charlie Kirk is speech about how vile the person is.
There's a huge difference between cancelling someone for saying "there's only two genders" or "only 6% of black slaves came to the US", versus cancelling someone who rejoices in murder and wants more of it.
And when it comes to teachers and government employees, I shed no tears. They don't belong in government if they haven't got the common sense and common decency to keep such vile thoughts to themselves, any more than a receptionist should be tolerated for putting a sign on her desk celebrating Charlie Kirk's murder. They represent the government that my tax dollars support. I don't want them running my government any more than I want some KKK member running my government. They are as repulsive and betraying their job just as much as a WaPo pundit making up lies.
There's a huge difference between cancelling someone for saying "there's only two genders" or "only 6% of black slaves came to the US", versus cancelling someone who rejoices in murder and wants more of it.
Or, as I mentioned this morning, cancelling a high schooler for doing the "made you look" hand gesture because a bunch of left-wing idiots in the media fell for a 4chan prank.
They certainly gave us plenty of examples. Now they whine when they get it back.
They deserve to get it back a trillion fold.
Who, not what.
Fuck off, sarc
It's pretty offensive for people who hated Kirk to be lecturing others on how to honor his legacy. It reminds me of atheists lecturing believers on how to practice their religion.
the teacher described Kirk as "a gross racist, awful person who fueled the fires of division…please stop acting like he was some hero."
How is this comment not divisive? This is yet another example of Left Wing Privilege. They routinely assert standards they fail themselves, but they never notice because their status as left wingers in good status means they are presumed pure. This is how all the institutions they control function.
It's pretty offensive for people who hated Kirk to be lecturing others on how to honor his legacy.
"This is what he would have wanted," said the people bastardizing his message.
"Cancel culture" is very simple. No one should get "cancelled" (fired, doxxed, similar things) for things that aren't worth getting fired or doxxed for.
That's it. It's very very simple. Conservatives decried "cancel culture" for people getting cancelled when stating normal conservative things (men aren't women and can't decide to become women). Because that's not something anyone should get fired or doxxed over, or even sanctioned in any way. In fact, that statement should be praised.
On the other hand, "Charlie Kirk had it coming" is worth getting fired or doxxed over.
Every single bit of it is eye of the beholder. But we all have eyes, and we all behold.
No one should get "cancelled" (fired, doxxed, similar things) for things that aren't worth getting fired or doxxed for.
And no one ever does!
You got fired for saying “preferred” pronouns — transphobically implying it’s a mere preference? Well, apparently that was bad enough, as you have now observed.
"Preferred" pronouns are simply demands that you lie.
So, you advocate firing people for not lying to protect the feelings of the mentally ill.
These people posted messages publicly intended to be spread on social media. The right is just helping them spread their message. You take more offense to that than fucking shooting someone for speaking.
Yeah, no.
"transphobically implying it’s a mere preference?"
Care to turn that into English?
Someone doesn't know what Transphobia means.
Fuck off commie. You cannot demand I lie in service if "your truth" anymore than every other schitzo.
Uh hun. All that tranny crap has to go.
Say. Why not write an article about how Democrats can blame their 'cancel culture' onto the Right??
Leftard Self-Projection. It's about as predictable as water being wet.
Something, something, tariffs.
You know what else Charlie Kirk wouldn't have wanted?
A Kit Kat bar?
Wait, no-no-no....
A Klondyke Bar?
What would YOU do for a Klondyke bar? Would you kill a man?
*kicks pebble*
But muh private companies.
So, I get it. Teachers and government employees aren't allowed to express themselves on social media, unless they have the "correct" messages. Once a person becomes a government employee, that person hands over all decision-making power over his/her life to the taxpayers. They cease being autonomous individuals and instead become slaves to the mob.
This is exactly how I expected the MAGA crowd to react.
Fuck off jeffy.
Frankly, I think it's time to put surveillance cameras inside the homes of government employees. So that the taxpayers can monitor how they spend their lives while living on the dole, otherwise known as a "salary". Did that government employee actually buy name-brand cereal instead of a generic brand? How dare he/she waste the precious taxpayer money like that!
Once a person becomes a government employee, all expectations of privacy or personal autonomy go out the window. They should submit to the will of the crankiest taxpayer in every matter or else risk being fired.
How, a toadie for the state?
Well, you've been exceptionally fond of state actions against citizens since, at least, 2020. So you now finding government employees as being above reproach should not be that surprising.
You are broken so badly.
Lol. “Privacy”?
They could have had all the privacy they wanted by just not being ghouls on SOCIAL media, you fucking moron.
You can’t really be this much of a piece of shit. It has to be an act.
Perhaps the value could be treated like a perk. If you enlist volunteers, appreciation could be a case of anonymous reporting of actual statistics.
But you could own the actual record. You could use your consumer history to run for office to express your fidelity to values!
"So, I get it. Teachers and government employees aren't allowed to express themselves on social media, unless they have the "correct" messages."
They are quite free to.
And people are allowed to express themselves to their employers about their employees' possible tainting of their brand and sending evidence of the claim.
"Once a person becomes a government employee, that person hands over all decision-making power over his/her life to the taxpayers. They cease being autonomous individuals and instead become slaves to the mob."
If one government employee dropped "n-words" on social media regularly --- they would suffer no consequences?
"This is exactly how I expected the MAGA crowd to react."
HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE NOTE THAT WE WANT TO KILL YOU AND WILL CELEBRATE JOYOUSLY WHEN IT HAPPENS!!! --- chemjeff
Like former County Clerk Kim Davis?
That is (D)ifferent.
Jeff literally defended all.the Colorado attacks against the baker.
Remember when government employees were fired by Biden for not taking the jab? He may not, but I do!
Edit: Also, there was a fucking teacher in Canada showing the footage of Charlie's murder to 5th and 6th graders, that is well and truly beyond the pale!
People also forget about Biden's purging of the military for concerns about "white supremacy".
They never gave one fucking shit about free speech. They just wanted an opportunity to be a fucking douche and then claim the victim when someone called them on their shit. Fucking hypocrites.
Yeah, that's the left, thanks for noticing.
LOL, yeah, your side hates it when you get a spoonful of your own medicine, as a treat.
An appeal to principle from a leftist. That's very funny. I would say I've seen it all, but I know it's cope over it being done back to you. How could you faggots possibly say you did not deserve this? Comedy gold.
LOL. This mealy-mouthed mewling is exactly what I'm talking about.
This isn't censorship. After all, freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences, now does it, sweaty? Being the better man and being principled works when your political opponents don't shank you when you do so. That's fucking over. There's no spark of soul in their eyes, and now everyone knows it.
“There’s no spark of soul in their eyes, and now everyone knows it.”
Well said. The left, in this moment, makes me think of Jim taggart collapsing in hate and frustration when the Ferris persuader fails to break galt toward the end of that long ass book.
The left is Jim taggart. Jeff is Phillip reardon. Pathetic and losing the long game, bigly.
Lol watch those crocodile tears pour out.
The minute he can, jeffy and his ilk will cancel us all (or worse) and laugh about it
Unless and until you can show that this is being done at the direction of government officials (not including taking action against government employees), I’m gonna kindly say: Fuck off my private companies.
In regards to government employees, had any conservative leaning douche said something similar after Mrs. Hortman’s murder, they deserve a review as well. Challenge: finding such a tweet or post.
Charlie Kirk Would Not Have Wanted This
Probably wasn’t keen on the idea of being shot dead by a lunatic.
Probably not.
But the reason he endured the risk of being shot dead by (what I hope was) a lunatic was so that cancellation would stop being a thing. Rather an ugly irony that because one lunatic killed him, 50 million people who think they are his fans are doing their damndest to destroy his life’s work.
No, he risked it because he believed dialogue was important AND possible. If you know nothing of the man, stop pretending you do.
He was proven incorrect. Dialogue is not possible. They WILL murder you if they dislike your speech and their side will joyously applaud it.
Things changed. We recognize the change and will adapt.
Ridiculous wishcasting.
Bullshit lefty whining. Fuck off and die, slimy pile of lefty shit.
^+1
Ridiculous wishcasting
The Gracchi didn't want to do anything other than ensure that Roman war vets got the land they were promised for spreading the glory of the Republic. That they wouldn't have wanted their deaths to eventually lead to the end of that Republic is immaterial to the fact that it happened.
I don’t want these demons educating our young people. Neither do most sane people
Was it Cancel Culture when county clerk Kim Davis was jailed and lost reelection for failing to issue gay marriage licenses? Or was it a consequence of her own actions?
Well, that is justifiable, obviously. She did not do something minor like murder somebody.
Hey Reason, does private companies sound familiar to you?
Dicked magazine says that is (D)ifferent because their daddy Biden (D)emanded it but it can’t happen organically by employers not wanting to retain toxic employees unless congress first allows it.
Charlie Kirk wouldn’t have wanted this
Of course he would have. He was a committed culture war douchebag who laughed at violence committed by the political Right.
Good riddance… I’m glad he’s dead.
Why?
Why does that make you glad?
Because he was an insufferable dick and, as with certain people, the world is better off without them.
What did he ever say or do that made you think that of him?
Are his wife and children better off without him?
He shouldnt have had a wife and children. Most right wingers don't anymore because they are not selected, and thats a very very good thing.
Maybe having those rare, coveted resources contributed to his alpha status among right wing rejects.
He shouldnt have had a wife and children. Most right wingers don't anymore because they are not selected, and thats a very very good thing.
LOL. Meanwhile, in the real world, right-wingers still have more kids than left-wingers.
That's going to have some hilarious consequences for your side when the total population falls off the cliff here in the next 20 years.
Don't forget the fact that even when they have kids (defying the will of their pagan gods) assuming the children don't survive the abortions, they rush to sterilize them as an apology to their pagan rainbow gods for successfully procreating.
5.56 still lives in his mom's basement, too fat to get up the stairs, too stupid to get a job, too tiny a micropenis to get a woman pregnant. Don't worry 5.56, you won't be around long enough to see the world pass you by.
He shouldnt have had a wife and children.
Yes, but he did. Are they better off without him?
Also, you didn't answer the other question either.
You're also an insufferable dick yet I don't want to assassinate you. However, I do hope you shit your pants at an inconvenient time.
Always asking people to emulate your hero Biden.
You are a slimy pile of steaming lefty shit absent ONE bit of evidence to support your claim, asswipe.
Prove me wrong, shitstain.
Still doesn't justify killing him and anyone who thinks do deserves to be canceled.
Just make sure you are using a VPN and an alias. Also, if you are identified and accused claim identity theft. If you have an adverse outcome make sure to deny everything and follow up with a defamation lawsuit.
If you believe so strenuously in what you're saying, why would you hide behind a VPN and an alias? Are your beliefs so fragile and fleeting and insincere that you're afraid to take a bullet to the neck for them, like Kirk did?
And leave my cushy 6-figure job with little responsibility in jeopardy from the likes of you? No thanks!
So, yes? They are that fragile and fleeting and insincere?
Do you care more about your money than you do your beliefs? Or perhaps they're one in the same. Do you worship at the altar of coin, Sandra?
And do you not realize how tiny it makes you, to realize that for all the joys of your "cushy 6-figure job with little responsibility" that you openly admit that you're terrified of little 'ol me?
Does none of this tell you anything about how broken your grasp on things is?
There’s dying for one’s beliefs and there’s dying for one’s beliefs in a society that will move on to the next shiny object in 3 news cycles max.
You didn't answer the question.
Don't justify or downplay what they did to Charlie Kirk. You should know better.
While it is commonplace for politicians and media figures to warn of violent political rhetoric leading to more actual violence, it remains the case that ideologically-motivated killings of national figures are blessedly rare.
Why limit it to national figures? Was it that important to not mention something that happened just three months ago?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/2-minnesota-lawmakers-shot-targeted-incident-officials/story?id=122840751
It was very much national news, so this seems like a deliberate omission.
The targeted attacks on members of Congress such as Reps. Gabby Giffords (D–Ariz.) and Steve Scalise (R–La.), as well as the attempted assassinations of presidents Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan, and Gerald Ford, are memorable because this type of violence doesn't happen very often.
Maybe the goal is to keep that event from being "memorable".
Except Giffords was a random nutbar who had no political axe to grind while Scalise was a Bernie Bro Democrat trying to kill as many Republicans as possible.
Not the same thing.
Seems that the list provided is majority Republican. Weird.
Jared did have an axe to grind. He was a Democrat who thought Giffords was ignoring him. Yes he had mental issues, but that was the heart of his focus on her.
Uh, what? Oh, I see. You didn't look at the link, or even read what it was about from its address. That is why you clearly have no idea what I was saying.
Wrong.
Sorry you got debunked.
damikesc didn't say anything that contradicts what I wrote. What he said about Giffords and Scalise is not responsive to my points. So it doesn't debunk anything.
Was it that important to not mention something that happened just three months ago?
Hmm, maybe think about what I am saying happened three months ago? Could it be two Minnesota Democrats murdered and two others that were also shot, but lived?
His friends said he [Vance Boelter] was right-leaning, a supporter of President Donald Trump and opposed abortion rights. While preaching in the Democratic Republic of the Congo a few years ago, he spoke against abortion.
When reporters asked officials June 16 whether abortion rights supporters were among Boelter’s potential targets, Thompson said he believed the names of "some abortion rights supporters" appeared in Boelter’s writings. He also said, however, that there were "dozens and dozens and dozens of names on hundreds of pages" of Boelter’s writings.
This is as much detail as I've seen about his possible motives, but the victims killed were a Democratic Party lawmaker and her husband, and the ones that survived was a Democratic Party state Senator and his wife. [Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party, actually, since that party is affiliated with the national Democratic Party and is the result of a merger several decades ago between the Minnesota Democratic Party and the Minnesota Farmer-Labor Party.]
Seems that the list provided is majority Republican. Weird.
That's true, but it is also something I was not claiming differently. My point is that the list excludes two Democrats that were targeted along with their spouses, with one couple murdered. And that it happened only three months ago, and it was national news at the time. Yet, no one on the right seems to remember this. Weird.
That is obvious, but neither of you looked at what I wrote or the link I included further than to find something to "debunk" and fit your preferred narrative.
The idiot again pushes 2 incidents where it wasn't right wing targeting of democrats even after he has been laughed at before.
Do you all get the same email? Also, what’s the pay like?
Fuck off and die, asswipe:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Have to say, having come of age in the 60s and 70s, it's surprising to learn that political assassination is blessedly rare. Then I remembered that history began on Y2K. Or something. I've recently heard Charlie Kirk described as a civil rights leader, a martyr and compared to MLK Jr. Took a minute to get my brain around that but I'm starting to see that as an apt description. This guy was not a politician and had no ability to use the power of the state to do anything. All he had was a voice reminiscent of MLK and Ghandi preaching non violent resistance and dialogue. I think that's why I keep hearing that it feels different this time. History is packed with private actors that were able to move the cultural and political needle in ways that no one expected at time. Is Charlie Kirk that guy this time around? We shall see.
Political violence of the 60s is venerated now. See Obama mentor from weather underground or professor Angela Davis.
So many violent actors of the 60s are now tenured professors.
Davis actually quit the Communist Party at about the time of the fall of the Soviet Union. She became a more garden variety far leftist.
Did you have a point there, asswipe?
Days of Rage is a good read, covers a lot of material on the out of control leftist violence from the 60s and 70s, and yes, many of those actors become respected professors and "community organizers".
The left loves violent anarchists.
Remember Obama's "spiritual council" giving that speech? Jeramiah Wright I think his name was.
Vile, hateful, racist, especially America hating... and he was an Obama mentor. And this didn't make any of his followers think twice. That kind of rhetoric, publicly available, and still the media portrayed Obama as a uniter, and somehow uniquely qualified to run the country he's been taught to hate.
The left definitely loves it's anarchists.
Was this speech "America hating"?
https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/historic-document-library/detail/frederick-douglass-what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july-1852
I only remember a single, three-word excerpt of Jeremiah Wright's sermon that got played on repeat in 2008 - "God damn America!" he shouted. Interpreting that as "America hating" seems obvious. But what did he say before that? Did he give any reasons for saying it? If we don't care why he said it, and only condemn him for saying it, then we've learned nothing. We're just reacting and shouting back what we believe. People shouting what they believe at each other, and vilifying (selectively) things said by their opponents is not debate. It is a shouting match that might as well be a "Tastes great! Less filling!" commercial. At least those commercials had a tiny amount of entertainment value. Political shouting matches are worse than pointless.
Shut the fuck up and go take your anxiety medicine before you have a breakdown, idiot.
"Teachers Who Don't Like Kirk"
I am a teacher who didn't like Kirk and have explained why.
And none of those reasons justified murdering him.
If an assaholic pile of shit like you are a 'teacher', we need to know where you are peddling your lefty shit to end it, shit bag.
I will, charlie, give you the credit.
I do not care that you disliked Kirk. Nobody is universally beloved.
But you have, unequivocally, condemned political murder. And that is the correct view on this. No "but" involved.
I want to give you the credit, for what little it is worth, for being decent.
I’ll equivocate. Somebody should have shot Hitler long before he enjoyed the luxury of doing it himself.
A perfect example of lefty reasoning that is impossible to refute because it is so far removed from both logic and history.
There is no justification for killing Hitler prior to the him doing evil. He also did not act alone. You would have to kill hundreds or even thousands of people to prevent what happened in Germany.
At some point in the middle of his doing evil would have worked.
That's really easy to agree with, but it is also irrelevant to any discussion about Charlie Kirk.
He fails to understand that many efforts were made to kill or capture Hitler once he did his heinous acts.
That's a stupid comparison. Unless you're saying that someone should have killed Hitler before he had any governmental power to order violence on political enemies, in which case you'd be advocating in favor of political murder more generally. As long as it was 'bad' people being murdered, I guess.
Once Hitler had the power of government to order violence and use violence as a tool of political oppression, then trying to kill him would be resistance not political murder. That's a whole different discussion, though, as to whether that is justified, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about in regards to Kirk's assassination, since he held no government position.
You said political murder is unequivocally unacceptable. I’m a pacifist. But it’s not an ethical slam dunk is all I’m saying.
I am saying that it depends on what you mean by "political murder". Violence (and even just the threat of violence) against a person because they express political, social, or religious views that we oppose is never justified. Even if their speech rises to the level of being a "true threat", defamation, or other speech that is correctly not protected by the 1st Amendment, then it isn't ethically justified for us to become vigilantes deciding who and how to punish that speech.
Simply put, violence is only ethically justified in two circumstances, in my opinion: 1) The immediate need for self-defense or defense of others, in which case the amount of force that is justified is the amount that is necessary to stop the threat. 2) Resistance against an oppressive regime when peaceful resistance is not viable.
The boundaries and lines that will make for an ethical judgement are going to be case-specific. There will be no general rule to say "A regime is oppressive enough and peaceful resistance is not viable when x, y, and z are true, and that is when resisting it violently is justified." I think that what you view as an ethical gray area is this, and nothing Charlie Kirk ever said or did even comes close to that realm.
The specific situation of the rise of Nazism in Germany is not something I am expert about. I don't know enough of the details of what proof there was of Hitler's actions and goals at different points in time. I am not going to say that he crossed the line and became an ethically legitimate target for assassination after he did X. Besides, there is too much knowledge of the horrors he was guilty of to make that kind of judgement without being biased by what happened later. It's the "do we kill baby Hitler if we have a time machine" argument, essentially.
Charlie Kirk did nothing wrong
He did nothing that justified violence against him, and I've stated clearly my criteria for when using violent force is justified. I don't agree that he did nothing wrong.
If you want, you can try to make a career stating stupid things that should not be said. You can play the role of fire without any basis and see if it might "catch" other people unguarded. You could then try to make problems for other people without there being any need.
The end result might be a comedian or might be an example.
I'm still newly-acquainted with this concept that of the lives of casualties being "worth" the Second Amendment. This proposes a deliberate, premeditated, or advisory tradeoff. Couldn't an idiot argue just as easily that keeping the tool of money -- to abuse another example -- would be worth a few more Black Fridays or a few more economic recessions or even a few more bank robberies, when plainly it's not the having that causes bad planning but rather the not knowing what you have!!?
In order to determine if he was going in the wrong direction, we would have to examine his career apart from his private life.
Did pop culture contain the gun peppers that shot him, or was it a grudge based upon something that no one had called out but had been authored by him?
In other words, was Charlie's assassination or shooting the product of thought or instead the product of hype alone taken up by someone wanting the spotlight for purely selfish and unapologetic reasons?
Hitler, growing up, was trying to be part of the solution. Someone dictated that Hitler give up pursuing the career in painting that he had been pursuing.
That would be the wizard or mechanism that explains why Hitler went from being probably a decent fellow to a champion of methamphetamine soldiers and land expansionist addict unlike modest Putin of Russia who only wishes to cannibalize his nearest neighbor because they cannot possibly defend themselves from an invincible Russian army. One might call his friend who nudged Hitler along The Devil.
However, this is not a storybook but rather the pages of actual history.
"Hey! it's hypocritical when YOUR side does it. It's against your principles remember?"
Sorry, I really don't care, Margaret
It's almost like a verbatim excerpt from 'Rules for Radicals' ain't it.
"Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."
"Never go outside the experience of your people."
"Whenever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy."
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
"A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."
"Keep the pressure on."
"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."
"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
"If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative."
"The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
The concerning part? The right is starting to use some of these, and I don't think that leads somewhere good.
It is merely giving leftists what they demand in true Alynsky fashion.
So what you’re saying is you have no principles, and the shit you believe isn’t worth a wad of shitty toilet paper, yes?
No one has accused Alynsky of having principles.
Other than, "It's okay when we do it." That's really what has Tony's fursuit in a twist.
Um, Charlie Kirk would have led the charge on cancelling people for celebrating the assassination of Trump or Elon Musk. And as I write this, they are among dozens of potential targets. Those two guys are probably second only to Netanyahu in terms of people the global left want to see murdered in broad daylight.
Keep this in mind as you predictably try to play both houses. What's relevant is the actual violence, not the reactions to it.
It's one thing for the cancel culture left to take down strawman to accuse us of double standard. Why is Reason playing that game? Forget the violence and politics. Would you hire someone who interrupts a eulogy at a funeral to trash talk the deceased? When did warriors against cancel culture even hint that such jerks were entitled to a job?
Cancel Culture is a form of left wing puritanism. The Scarlet Letter is cancel culture. The left would make Hester Pryne wear one for "sum ting wong" jokes. But if she mocked the brutal murder of a town elder and the town shunned her, it wouldn't be cancel culture.
No one seriously opposed a company firing an ACTUAL racist. The left cancelled a bunch of people for benign things they THOUGHT was dangerous racism, and when we called them out they characterized us as "free speech absolutist and now they're the ones cancelling"
No one seriously opposed a company firing an ACTUAL racist.
it's ok to be fired for the right kind of wrongthink i guess
The Scarlet Letter is cancel culture.
Uh, The Scarlet Letter worn by Hester Prynne was imposed on her by religious conservatives in government so they could enforce their beliefs about sexual morality. You're ignoring this core plot point in order to stretch it into whatever it is you're trying to say about the left.
"Cancel culture", however you define the specifics, is not the same thing as the government using its power to punish dissent or non-conformity. It does routinely go too far, but it is a violation of the principle of free speech, not a government abuse of its power to violate a person's right to free speech. After all, the people saying that Brian Kilmeade should be fired for what he said about homeless people have a right to say that, guaranteed by the 1st Amendment.
What's relevant is the actual violence, not the reactions to it.
How people have been reacting to Kirk's murder is relevant. It gives us a lot of important information about the state of our society.
We can't work to improve the level of tolerance and respectful disagreement between different political factions if we don't know enough about what they really think about their opponents. We're getting a lot of unfiltered information about that from how people are reacting. Seeing people making bad arguments as they react emotionally helps us construct better arguments that are more rational. It shows us which people in positions of power are quick to use this as a weapon against their political enemies.
It isn't a good thing that some people are reacting to this latest political violence irrationally and that some are looking to take advantage of the opportunity to manipulate public emotions. But it is essential that we pay attention to the people reacting that way.
There were not religious conservatives in office by the time Hester Prynne lived, that is, she was not being ruled by religious clergy. Her government was really no different than anywhere else in the country.
What was done to Charlie Kirk had nothing to do with government powers.
You were doing so well Robby, but it seems "to be sure" is back with a vengeance.
You are equating canceling someone for a political opinion, as opposed to canceling someone who celebrates murder. Apples and oranges.
Good, so when a liberal is in power, prepare to pack your box and go into poverty if you ever cross one of their many lines of propriety.
Oh no, guys, when the liberals are back in power, they might use cancel culture against us!
Like we didn't have the last decade of your tard-raging as proof of that, hicklib. We're already well aware you want to punish the rest of us for your lissencephaly.
And you idiots made everyone in the goddamn country listen to you whine about it for an eon.
I was never stupid enough to believe you were sincere and that this was anything more than a rightwing power play. Your entire business has always been canceling people. It’s the whole point of being a conservative freak, to keep people you don’t like out of your neighborhood.
You just got mad when racists and rapists started feeling the heat.
And you idiots made everyone in the goddamn country listen to you whine about it for an eon.
And now it's your turn to squeal, faggot. Drink some lemon water and use your diaphragm, it will preserve your vocal cords.
I was never stupid enough to believe you were sincere and that this was anything more than a rightwing power play.
LOL, oh bullshit, your post up above shows you thought you could use your political enemies as punching bags for eternity with no pushback. I realize your retarded political theology preaches that people have infinite patience for your tard-raging and everything would function as normal regardless of the stresses your side put on it. But this is the real world, not your moronic marxist fantasy land.
Your entire business has always been canceling people. It’s the whole point of being a conservative freak, to keep people you don’t like out of your neighborhood.
Functional societies are not required to sponsor their own subversion by tolerating dysfunctional BPD cases like you.
You just got mad when racists and rapists started feeling the heat.
And now you're getting pissed because left-wing eliminationists are getting the Consequences of Their Actions. Don't cry like a bitch just because you think people are getting in the way of your fun.
Boy do I feel stupid for calling you idiots proto-fascists. It felt so ironical what with your emphasis on individual liberty. You were just holding out for that freedom tax cut and freedom mass gun proliferation, then you’d stop trying to freedom all of us and go about your lives like the peaceful definitely-not-discount-Nazis you were.
I’m glad the authorship of libertarianism still holds onto some libertarian beliefs. The rabble have decided that what libertarianism means to them is to support whatever the nearest autocrat does. Because neener neener goose and gander or some shit.
You freaks dragged all of us through years of whining about cancel culture. Over a little overreach by people in conversations you weren’t even invited to. Over serial rapists getting competence for once.
Boy do I feel stupid for not realizing just how quickly you’d support silencing half the country over a Reichstag fire that had nothing fucking to do with them.
Since it bears repeating:
An appeal to principle from a leftist. That's very funny. I would say I've seen it all, but I know it's cope over it being done back to you. How could you faggots possibly say you did not deserve this? Comedy gold.
On the contrary, I find it trying on one’s patience for conservative freaks to attempt to have actual principles when that requires reading books.
The fact that you will absolutely every time turn on a dime even after a yearslong crusade about a “principle” because “they had it coming” or “they started it” only confirms that you got your principles on the playground.
It’s never about a set of principles, it’s about making yourself so goldfish-brained that you can contradict yourself from one hour to the next and not even notice. Whatever horseshit lie helps your tribe win in what matters. Consistency is in fact a liability. It’s all there in the fascist playbook.
My question is what happens when you win? You get to expel the undesirables and leave everyone else miserable anyway? It all seems like an incredible waste of time.
LOL, you really think this hand-waving is any kind of argument? Don't scream like a scalded dog when you're getting just a small taste of your own Liberating Tolerance. Not a whole lot of fun when the other side is doing it, is it? But your side doesn't have the future-time orientation to realize that.
The fact that you will absolutely every time turn on a dime even after a yearslong crusade about a “principle” because “they had it coming” or “they started it” only confirms that you got your principles on the playground.
LOL--"you can't do to us what we've been doing and justifying this whole time! You just can't because....reasons. What about your principles?"
Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.
The grosses misuse of Charlie Kirk's memory is what Benjamin Netanyahu has been saying.
It's clear that Charlie Kirk was beginning to question his support of the Israeli government and the brutality of Benjamin Netanyahu. While he was at one time a fervent supporter of Israel, he made may comments recently that there was a difference between supporting Israel and supporting the Israeli government and the brutality of Benjamin Netanyahu.
Charlie Kirk was all about dialogue, discussion, and debate to avoid violence. Anyone who is promoting violence is doing exactly the opposite of the goals of Charlie Kirk.
I understand the pain of losing Charlie Kirk, who was assassinated for his beliefs. I fear the demise of Charlie Kirk goal of avoiding violence through promoting dialogue, discussion, and debate.
I also agree that people who cheer the lost of life are despicable and deserve to have Karma ravage their soulless husks. However this should not be delivered by Humans, but rather something that Karma should deliver. Humans should promote Charlie Kirk's goal of avoiding violence by promoting dialogue, discussion, and debate.
“Karma” can “deliver” unemployment to ghouls too stupid to avoid cheering murder publicly.
Good riddance to them. I’ll bet they won’t be missed by their employers. They are likely pretty useless anyway.
War is war. People can't seem to understand that. But Israel does.
War is war, and war crimes are war crimes. Attacking the openly violent Hamas is one thing, starving women, children and other noncombatants is quite another. Despite the common hue and cry, Israel's actions aren't genocide. It's becoming increasingly clear that they do qualify as ethnic cleansing, and that's still a crime against humanity,
I must say I had never heard of Charlie Kirk before and tend to wonder if he was AI-generated.
Probably didn't want to be shot either.
Look, this ain't about Mork anymore - people got to protect themselves now. It's about the living, not the dead.
I wonder if he could had put a humorous spin on Cards Against Humanity, which seem beyond cynical in their presentation.
Give it up, Robby. The Trumphumpers are going to keep shitting on you no matter how far you bend over backwards to be fair. Stop giving the benefit of the doubt to people who've proved again and again they don't deserve it.
Indeed Robby, knock it off.
Coming up on REASON: "Environmental Groups Are Suing To Silence Scientists Who Wrote a Report Questioning Climate Change Alarmism" OK so who is it again who says words aren't promoting others in to action against the speakers?