How Portuguese Culture Makes It Easier To Parent
The Portuguese recognize that having children shouldn't relegate people to explicitly kid-friendly spaces.

This is part of Reason's 2025 summer travel issue. Click here to read the rest of the issue.
My baby was stolen in a Portuguese airport.
The culprit was a granny who worked in the bakery there, crafting pastéis de nata. While I was sorting out the rental car booking, my husband had taken our then-9-month-old son to fetch pastries. Our son quickly disappeared—taken behind the counter by an insistent old lady who wanted to show him around and, presumably, feed him spoonfuls of custard. Who am I to object to local custom?
Portuguese culture grants special privileges to children and families, and those privileges really do make a big difference. We've been to Lisbon, surf towns to the west, the Azores, and even Cabo Verde, the African island nation and former colony, where many of the same norms apply. Pregnant women, the elderly, and people traveling with young kids get special lines for airport security and customs, ushered through as fast as possible. Native Portuguese will get offended if they see you in the normal line, instructing you to go to the priority line and sometimes getting the attention of the customs officer to make sure the system is adhered to—the only time Southern Europeans have ever been rule-abiding!
Though their Northern European neighbors are strict about taxi cab car seat rules and paranoid about child safety on buses (in Norway they made me use a car seat), the Portuguese are relaxed about it, allowing parents to make whatever choices they deem best. This is helpful for those of us who don't travel with car seats, preferring to use public transit wherever possible.
Their playgrounds allow lots of risky play. We availed ourselves of Lisbon's Jardim da Estrela, which had plenty of climbing structures, including one extending more than 15 feet in the air, full of kids as young as 5 jousting for the top spot.

Contrast this with the American approach: Our illustrious federal regulators publish the Public Playground Safety Handbook, which discourages playground designers from using free-swinging ropes (which "present a potential strangulation hazard," as they could "fray" or "form a loop") and mandates the steepness of slides. Or worse, the New York approach: padlocking certain playgrounds, such as Hudson River Park's Pier 26 and Madison Square Park's, when it gets chilly out, because God forbid children slip or fall in the event that there's ice or snow. (Better to just stay inside glued to a screen, these policies seem to suggest.)
In Lisbon, the public park facilities even had a miniature bathroom for potty-training kids, but you could also freely change a diaper on a park bench. The nearby day cares dressed kids for rain or shine, and they seemed to make outdoor time a habit. The moms did not hover—a refreshing contrast to Manhattan and Brooklyn—and there was a healthy mix of moms and dads handling the kids. (To give credit where due, some Northern Europeans get good marks in these subjects. Playgrounds in Berlin are abundant and, in many cases, designed to maximize kid independence—and nasty weather rarely deters there, since active outdoor time is valued highly.)

At home in New York, I keep a list of fancy restaurants that tend to be welcoming toward babies and toddlers (Bonnie's in Williamsburg, Cafe Gitane in Lower Manhattan), precisely because it feels like a rarity: Several restaurants have adopted policies disallowing children (Jean-Georges, Bungalow). In Portugal, it's standard to see families out to dinner, and out quite late. Though the families don't tend to be huge—Portugal has not been immune to the sinking-birthrate issues that have plagued the rest of the developed world—they are rebounding a bit from a 2013 low of 1.21 births per woman.
Lots of cultures around the world get components of childrearing right: The American expats I met in Tamarindo, Costa Rica, let their kids roam free-range and almost universally homeschooled, seceding from the dominant parenting culture in America, the rat race, and the anxiety. (In some cases, they've deviated very far from the norm: One mom told me it's totally chill to breastfeed 8-year-olds. But I think that's just a hippie thing, not a Central American custom.) Panamanian parents in coastal towns like Playa Venao seem to let their young kids surf with abandon, unsupervised except by siblings. The aforementioned Germans have free-play areas where adults aren't allowed, such as Berlin's Abenteuerlicher Bauspielplatz Kolle 37, a playground with spots for climbing and hammer-and-nails construction and fire building. When I visited, a crowd of 9-year-olds were tending it with pokers; my toddler, not yet allowed in, seemed already to covet access to the flames.
But the Portuguese in particular grasp something I fear American parents miss: You don't have to recede from society once you have children, relegated only to explicitly kid-friendly spaces. The way to get children to learn how to fly and dine in restaurants and act civilized in public is to include them, and to let them practice again and again. Of course, those reps are easier gotten when you have a surrounding culture that acts like children are a gift, not a burden. The grace with which Portuguese culture treats families makes it easier to bear when your kid inevitably messes up in public; everyone who witnesses the tantrum or the spilled glass seems to realize that this is a normal part of living alongside kids—a little cost worth bearing to have a society that's warm and friendly and growing.
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "Pastéis and Parenting in Portugal."
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In the USA, the near-feral condition of many of the children, especially those of incompetent unmarried mothers, would make that kind of radical inclusion a nightmare. It's perfectly understandable here that many adults feel they need lots of adults-only space.
The selective intuition of modern, educated, smart young women works in the perfect disfavor of defeated, stale, obsolete, right-wing dead ends of evolution. The white hijabs imposed by the defeated right - christianity, conservativism, wealth clinging, rewarding mediocrity, anti-indivualism - have been rejected by an emergent, stronger, less white, WINNING demographic. The rights billionaire leader who wants to turn the US into a corporation and his broken, cronyist doge appointee are currently demonstrating to the last person that they are not interested in solving any problems but those relating to the consistency of large cash flows into their wallets.
The modern, technology-aware world outside of outer jesus land and modern, smart, young, dynamic individuals will continue to CURB STOMP the sluggish, stale face of conservative obsolescence. The final twitches and moans emitted by the lessers are of no concern to the betters.
Nice word salad, bro.
Did Hank take over 5.56's account?
The Rev Kirkland.
His obsession with adultery and sex in general is the giveaway.
Honors me. I always thought the rev was highly entertaining, except when he triggered me with his replacement stuff. But now i think its funny.
"I always thought the rev was highly entertaining"
It IS Kirkland.
Nobody else would ever say that.
Yep. Samefagging. What a loser.
They always out themselves by praising their socks.
I tend to stay away from the sock sniffing cuz I think it’s usually wrong, but if that ain’t kirkland it’s his ugly twin sister.
Although there was a more reasonable account with that handle a while back, so who knows?
He’s definitely an old creeper with an unhealthy fixation with da yutes. Gross. Just let the kids be dumb. Most of them will grow out of it and this doosh will just have to permit us clingers to continue carrying on. Again.
Haha.
Fuck you. With Hank's dick.
That probably hasn’t worked in at least a decade.
No im just fed up with the mask drop of the conservative right and their pathetic power high, backing up a leader who doesnt give an inch of a shit about them after getting their vote. Those fucking idiots arent making anything better for anyone except for those who are already too well-off, and i predict that young voters will see this, and, unfortunately, will get involved with politics way more than you should have to at a young age. We're probably headed to european style social democracy after this trump fest.
Cite?
This website is flooded with right wing parrot bots and therefore cite free by tacit agreement. I dont have time to put together a study for you unless you give me 50/hr at minimum
I ain't paying for shit as you're the one making the assertions. Now, do you have citations with links to back up your assertions?
Kind of, and some trend analysis, but im not gonna spend hours to produce an unpaid article on a sunday morning when instead i could just say nothing and make purchases.
So you're a TDS-addled lying slimy pile of shit - it was pretty obvious. Fuck off and die, slaver.
In other words, nothing. How expected.
..the too well off..
Envy will get you nowhere.
See, you guys confuse empathy with envy. Thats what makes you so problematic. Gross. Fuck, there isnt gonna be anything red on my next ballot, lets go european style, i dont care anymore.
I walk over piles of homeless.
folks three streets from where high-income people like me reside. This is a fucking solidly red state. And has been for a while. This country is a fucking clown show. Unless youre completely narcississtic and out of touch (and hopefully permanently rejected for it by your hypothetical offspring), you will connect some dots.
Oh and before you ask me to adopt one of those homeless folks, or give them a room if im so charitable or something... lets say that from now on i will vote in a way that this wont be much a question anymore, hopefully. I dont care if it gets harder to buy your fucking second sports car.
“…. I will vote in a way that this won’t be much of a question anymore….”
Well, that rules out the dems. Were you asleep for biden? How about newsom, deblasio? murry the pedo in Seattle, beetleguise in chi town? Exactly where do you think this will work?
Lol. What an idiot.
Whatever you say, comrade.
But fun to see you challenge others about libertarian bonafides.
"...This is a fucking solidly red state..."
Sure it is, asswipe.
It could be. Red states still have overwhelmingly blue, useless cities. Missouri is a well-run state, but St Louis is a murderous shithole.
and i predict that young voters will see this
I have some bad news for you, grandpa. The kids aren't watching cable news 24/7 like the seniors and are thus largely unpoisoned by the enormous gaslighting campaign you boomers have been exposed to.
"social democracy after this trump fest" ... LOL...
A Self-Projection rant is so easy to spot.
- Democratic Socialism is exactly what Trump is against and exactly what his opposition is for.
- Cronyism is precisely Democratic Socialism. You can't have crony w/o socialist control.
- Hating a group of people for their religion/race is a Democratic Socialist foundation.
Strike 3; you're out.
“…already too well off…..”
Lol. What a loser.
His no longer respecting Akita saw him with some dude at a Coldplay concert on the kiss cam.
Lol
From the article, towards the bottom... "...everyone who witnesses the tantrum or the spilled glass seems to realize that this is a normal part of living alongside kids..."
But shit should SNOT be cuntsidered "normal" or acceptable when Our Dear Orange Leader has totally un-cuntrolled tariff tantrums!!!
PLEASE GROW UP, Dear Orange Leader!!!
Don't you have some pieces of shit to eat for breakfast?
Learn your place wokie. Or else things will get real fucking bad for you.
I was a practically a feral child. Totally unsupervised. The description of Portugal reminds me of what things were like in the US when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s.
Canada into the 90s too.
Just like the mullet, jean jackets, and high top sneakers?
Up here those persisted in pockets until the early 2000s. They don't call them the 'Canadian tuxedo' for nothing.
Throw on a touque, eh, and you've got Bob and Doug, eh.
This says more about New York than it does about Portugal.
Try visiting other parts of America.
She's from Texas, although in New York when her kid was born.
You don't have to recede from society once you have children, relegated only to explicitly kid-friendly spaces.
Yes, you do. I don’t want to hear your screaming kid when I’m in a nice restaurant.
Or uncontrolled kids in first or business class on long flights.
DLAM, what are the chances you’re going to a restaurant in Hipster-Douchester Brooklyn/Williamsburg, NY?
Zero
Soon, the NYC restaurants might be encouraged to transition to full Halal compliance.
As if they will be able to procure any ingredients.
So eat at home.
So fuck off and die.
Learn to obey.
California culture takes children and puts them to work on pot farms.
The right wing rejects universal expiration date has been imposed on you against your will by better, more competitive Americans and by the reproductive intuition of young, smart, dynamic women that you have no power over and that you are unequipped to get near to.
Unrelated gibberish.
5.56 is just sarc at age 67.
Your frequent, grave failures to make any predictions about me in real life is a testimony to how bad the model of reality of right-wing rejects really is.
He's hardly the only one, but he is the worst.
You might want to cut back on the soy, boy.
Your frequent lies are a testimony to being a TDS-addled lying pile of slimy lefty shit.
Well you sound like sarc at age 67... but cheer up, IRL Sarc's already in his early 60s.
And his liver is effectively 137.
And yet, there you are in New York; evidently knowingly abusing your kids.
Try Florida; if you stay away from the blue dot college towns, life is good, the surf is not much worse, and you can sell your wetsuit.
Today's Daytona Beach sea temperature is 81.9°F (Which is 2.0°F colder than average for this time of year)
Yes. Liz needs to GTFO of NYC. At least she appears to be a strongly maternal mother. Just in need of a non Marxist environment to raise her children.
'Pregnant women, the elderly, and people traveling with young kids get special lines for airport security and customs, ushered through as fast as possible.'
Anyone else remember the short-lived security lines at the Denver airport that divided people into categories? I loved the road-warrior only lines, where I was much likely to be stuck behind, yes, a large family of disorganized and dysfunctional people. Made me wish we had similar "discriminatory" lines wherever people queue up.
I enjoyed the security lines in the Middle East, segregated into men and women.
What categories?
'One mom told me it's totally chill to breastfeed 8-year-olds. But I think that's just a hippie thing, not a Central American custom.'
Or more likely a fetish thing.
Like wanting to breastfeed from Sydney Sweeney?
All my money, but I'd rather she wasn't lactating.
We'll allow it.
Brussels 1984, or what Reason should be discussing, but won't for some reason.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/europes-online-censorship-laws-could-restrict-americans-too-analysts-say
Nuke Brussels
May be better than the United Corporations of America.
Certainly better than a TDS-addled lying pile of slimy lefty shit.
Arty, have you even TRIED suicide?
He would fail at that too.
Street view random places in countries like Italy, Spain, Germany, Norway. No skid rows. No tweakers. Well-dressed middle class people with free time. Dignity. Streets that wont eat your tires. Health care that shows. Cyclists. Pedeatrians. People with lives. In mid-income areas. No six figures required to be seen as a human being.
Stop at an intersection? Look at traffic signs instead of "will work for food" signs. Fewer bloated, fat, uncompetitive, obsolete right wing abominations.
Looked up “dirty Berlin” and found numerous stories of locals complaining about all the trash, used needles left behind at playgrounds, abandoned furniture in public spaces, and pet shit on sidewalks. Apparently Paris is worse.
One resident posted:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUqtvSC7AM&pp=
Black Pigeon Speaks recently dropped an offering about the decline of western cities. Those Eurotrash cities might be cleaner than deep blue urban hellholes in the US, but they still look awful.
Yeah, but you’re gonna vote all that blight away, right, fiddy?
Lol.
Sarc assured us yesterday it was Trump and cultists following the 1984 playback.
And these are the people we are supposed to save from Putin.
Fuck them.
Yep. We no longer have any common interests with Western Europestan. Let's get out of NATO and stop treating them as allies. Eastern Europe is the future of our relationship with Europe.
The EU should pay tribute.
PrIvAtE cOmPaNiEs.
Yeah but how will this affect Villarreal?
It would be hilarious if Musk and Zuckerberg decided to just not offer the platforms in the EU.
'what Reason should be discussing, but won't for some reason'
Not wanting to get banned from the Kool Kid cocktail parties? Especially at the Euro country embassies.
This is just for J(ew)free, Misek, Sarcamisek, and their allies.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/media-manufactured-genocide-gaza
I’m shocked that certain political parties are more susceptible to what most of us see as obvious propaganda.
They were always anti-semitic, but in the sixties they learned to hide it better.
"In August 2020, I illustrated in these pages how terms like racism, white supremacy, and privilege saw a dramatic surge in media usage, significantly reshaping public and political perceptions and discourse. The same dynamic, I feared, was beginning to reshape another crucial term: genocide."
And now all these "power words" have zero impact, outside the college faculty lounge and the transgender barista union meeting.
What a fascist
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/doj-proposes-restoration-2nd-amendment-rights-some-convicted-felons
"DOJ Proposes Restoration Of 2nd Amendment Rights For Some Convicted Felons"
That's just like Hitler! Sarcasmic was right.
Nothing says oppression like letting people own guns.
A warning for New York: don't follow Chicago's lead.
https://johnkassnews.com/wise-up-chicago-dont-be-a-chumbolone/
Also, the surfing in Chicago kinda sucks.
Homicide rates in most large US cities have plummeted since 2020.
Hochul isn't a bad governor but I do blame her for not removing Eric Adams from office.
Fascist fake Harvard grad Charlie hall!
*looks around*
I'm not feeling it.
Homicide rates
in most large US citieshave plummeted since 2020.Fixed it for you, chuck.
You’re just wet to the knees in anticipation of Mamdani becoming mayor, aren’t you?
Eeewwwwww!!!
Way to go California, fine stores for the carts other people steal from their property.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/article_21bf061d-6733-4cd5-98ff-722b629b085f.html
Rhodesia Ransom could've voted "no", but was a gutless coward.
Jeff will be here later to call you a liar since they delayed it a year due to the outrage.
Rhodesia Ransom was the title of my hit single in 1979.
San Jose has for years had the lowest homicide rate among large US cities. Most of the US would love to see shopping carts as a problem worthy of significant attention.
The violent crime rate in San Jose, California, is 25.0 on a scale of 1 (low crime) to 100 (high crime), which is slightly higher than the national average of 22.7.
Your comment is about as relevant as you are.
"San Jose has for years had the lowest homicide rate among large US cities."
Not calling them homicides has worked miracles for the rate, but even then that isn't true.
He says compared to other dem ran urban centers. So the smartest retard.
Were you always severely retarded? Or were you just subpar, and then later sustained a traumatic brain injury?
Honest question.
Seriously an abstention or present vote is not per Roberts Rules a means of refusing to take a position. The option exists only to be used in the case of a conflict of interest. There is no way from preventing elected officials from taking that vote but it is a coward's vote.
Sounds like a make-work program for all those furloughed government and NGO staff. But at least it's outdoor work.
In case you missed it yesterday, Obama just got outed as the Worst President of the 21st Century.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_dc1693f6-e61b-4be7-bb99-9ebaf502e667.html
In other news, Shrike has a major sad.
And then nothing happened.
What even could happen? Arresting Obama even if for legitimate reasons would break America.
Maybe if there was an honest press who didn't suppress news and publish things they know aren't true, but there isn't.
They should. If for no other reason than to push the democrats over the edge and they start a civil war. Then we can finally out an end to Marxism in America.
Arresting Obama even if for legitimate reasons would break America.
Maybe the arrest should be done. Obama already broke the US, and is the main reason why were here in this position today. It took a lot of other events, but Obama's presidency was the proverbial straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. It may be that an arrest, trial, and conviction may be just what is needed to reset the table and right the ship, expose the bastards for who and what they are. It might trigger civil unrest, maybe even a minor civil war (I say minor as it would be a few blue cities versus a much larger, stronger red area). There would be casualties, including whole institutions being irreparably destroyed such as the mainstream press and some higher education institutions, but we might be better of afterward.
Would prefer a civil suit to bankrupt him like all the dems here cheered against Jones.
Would prefer it being tried as a capital offense. You can take all his money; he’ll just have proggie friends let him live in their posh places as a guest.
My super dream scenario is Obama locked up in SuperMax forever. The idea of him slender g the rest of his off locked up in a 7x12 for windowless cell behind a solid door with only a slot for a meal tray 23 hours a day is fitting.
Although a firing squad is also appropriate.
Local story. Just de.ocracy and democrat free speech.
One of the emails shows Rice going after Flynn to stop him from discovering the conspiracy. Glad Jacob Sullum didnt fall for the Flynn narrative and rage against him going not guilty.
Nixon was a piker compared to Obama.
Russia did interfere. Hundreds of examples. Documented in the Mueller investigation report. Not deniable except by the Trump Cult, for whom reality is optional.
Mueller report stated there was no collusion or interference. 100k in Facebook ads undid 1B by Hillary? Lol.
Hillary did more with Ukraine collusion than Trump did with Russia.
Fucking clown.
Now do the 2020 election.
Cite?
https://reason.com/2025/07/20/portugal/?comments=true#comment-11133837
Not surprised that "a cite" is a mystery to such an ignoramus.
Yeah, it was a very odd request given my comment.
Your comment was very odd, given Jesse's comment.
I was just joking around with Sevo with that reply. I have no issue with you.
That's not a cite. It merely leads back to Jesse's comment just above yours.
Yeah, that's the only thing I referenced in my comment.
A White Mike level of effort and veracity.
Mike loved citing his or his allies bald assertions as citations too....
Says the guy that researches gay sex for the morning links.
I looked up “Mike Laursen” on reddit and that was the first result. Serendipity. And hilarious.
What's with the obsession of white Mike? He's been gone for years and you guys are still crushing on him.
His stupidity is the bar that other retards such as charlie, Molly, sarc, and yourself are measured. Not unlike sportsball fans comparing the efforts of current players versus those from the past.
Mike once tried to convince the commentariat that the chemical formula for water was HO2.
That hardly explains why you'd look him up on reddit.
You’ve missed the plot.
Quixy is a little slow.
Quixy is a little slow.
So was Mr. HO2 with his GMO turducken.
Mike doesn't realize that the number one symptom of being a TDS leftist is still believing Trump Russia and cheering the biggest abuse ever by a president.
Yet he denies both being a Democrat or having TDS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Russian collusion conspiracy is as ridiculous as the stolen election conspiracy.
No, that’s bullshit. Without even getting into ballot fraud, all you have to do is look at all the illegal 11th hour swing state court decisions made by activist democrat judges. All designed to cover their tracks. Just look at every 2920 election lawsuit made by Mark Elias, who was at the time working for democrat hatchet law firm Perkins Coie.
I think it’s suspicious as fuck that Biden out performed Chocolate Jesus and lost all the bell weather counties. And the sudden 3 am flip.
I will say, it’s not outside the realm of possibility that those 5-6 million Democrat voters that disappeared last year were due to the lax or otherwise bullshit rules that were used during Covid, rather than some outright shenanigans.
It's the only thing in the realm of possibility. The number of people that would need to be involved in the execution and coverup of millions of votes could not be kept secret for 5 years, especially with Trump back in office and in charge of federal agencies.
All the conspiracy theories that were true came out within about a year and this is by far the biggest, most consequential.
Not to relitigate this for the 100th time, but the election was decided in essentially a handful of cities. It wouldn’t require a grand conspiracy of interconnected groups all following some previously cooked up plan. Just some very dedicated people willing to do what they thought needed to be done. And when ballots and envelopes are destroyed in direct contravention to state law (like in PA), there is literally no way to account for those votes.
Taking a page from Hillary though, at this point, what difference does it make.
But you mentioned the millions of extra dem votes. That is not a handful of cities. Those votes were distributed throughout the nation and would require a grand conspiracy.
Um no they weren't. Zero effort was made in Illinois or New York or Texas or California. The big fraud was in places like PA and Mi. The fucking swing states. And while we all get to vote in federal elections those votes are managed and counted by the states. Because we have a Republic, if we can keep it. There is no way to explain the statistical anomalies of the 2020 election in an honest count. How do we know? Because we didn't see that in the 2024 election with the same mail in balloting protocols still largely in place. In three election cycles millions of Democrat votes suddenly appeared and then suddenly disappeared. Bullshit.
Um no they weren't.
I'm not sure you got what I meant. The millions of votes that were cast in the 2020 election compared to the 2016 election were not concentrated in specific areas.
This is an independent point from the few specific precincts that could have flipped the election.
Are you willfully obtuse Quixy? You’re really starting to do some mental gymnastics to ignore every point made.
Are you willfully obtuse Quixy? You’re really starting to do some mental gymnastics to ignore every point made.
We've rehashed this stolen election ad nauseam. I chose to keep this argument narrow and only address the point I was challenged on: the millions of extra votes.
There are two separate “issues”, in my mind, but I didn’t clearly articulate them, so I’ll try to clarify.
1. Biden supposedly got 81 million votes total, while 5-6 million “disappeared” last year. So the total vote counts might be easily explained as I mentioned.
2. The 5-6 million are not the difference between Trump winning or losing in 2020 and I didn’t mean to imply they were. If memory serves, it was only a few hundred thousand votes in a handful of cities that flipped the swing states. Which absolutely does not require James Bond villain level planning or conspiracy.
Hopefully that better articulates my points.
The 5-6 million are not the difference between Trump winning or losing in 2020 and I didn’t mean to imply they were.
OK. I thought you were implying just that. Then it seems we agree about the likely cause of the extra votes.
It’s not like the government was forcing people to stay home and ruining the economy, giving an incentive for millions of angry people who don’t normally vote to show up and throw out the guy they felt was responsible for their hardship. This was completely out of the blue under totally normal circumstances, which means it had to be evil Democrats stealing the election. It’s the only explanation.
How was your kayak trip?
Marie Follayttar
@MarieFollayttar
Mainers kayaked to the island summer home of Chief Justice Roberts this morning to protest the extremist agenda & demand resistance to tyranny.
By land and by sea Mainers get it done!
#MEpolitics
Sarc didn’t go. He was still passed out on a pool of his own vomit and ruined when they left to kayak up there.
" Just some very dedicated people willing to do what they thought needed to be done."
Everybody on the left kept saying how Trump was another Hitler. So why *wouldn't* they have stolen the election if they had the chance to? Wouldn't you bend a few rules to keep Hitler out of office?
Nobody said they did nothing at all, that would be stupid considering our own intelligence community routinely does the same in other countries. What they do say is that Russia didn’t “alter the US Presidential election outcome.”
Which it didn’t.
Russian attempts at propaganda are beside the point and irrelevant to the discussion. The issue that led to the Mueller investigation was collusion with the Trump campaign not Facebook ads. That claim was orchestrated in the white house by Obama. There was no colliusion and even the demented tool Mueller couldn't find it despite having a staff of radical insurrectionists whose stated goal was to overthrow the elected government. You're just pissing into the wind.
"Documented in the Mueller investigation report."
Absolutely not. That is a flat out lie. I challenge you to quote where in the Mueller report it shows actual interference. Not some Facebook ads or Voice of America type stuff either. Actual interference.
How Koolaid DID you drink?
Good interview today with Tulsi and Maria Bartiroma. Tulsi says they have evidence of seditious conspiracy directed by Obama. The question is can he actually be prosecuted. Is there a statute of limitations, is there the political will, would any grand jury anywhere indict the Nobel prize winning bringer of hope and change? The media including rags like Reason will fight this to the death but Trump is a lame duck president with nothing to lose. This is about to get very interesting.
I believe they’ll do an investigation, maybe even a Special Counsel. It will spend the next three years chasing this and then nothing else will happen.
Or the next guy the powers-that-be hire won’t miss.
He has the presidential immunity for official acts that so many here favored.
So sedition is an official act? Yeah I'm pretty sure a competent attorney could thread that needle. And Sullum could write an explainer for us laypeople. Even Root could get on board. Prosecuting sedition would be lawfare in Reasonland. Seriously.
An official act is "good policy" if Team Red does it, but "sedition" if Team Blue does it.
What sedition did Trump engage in? Because last time I checked, running your pie hole as a sore loser is still protected speech, while directing the intelligence community to lie about and spy on your political opponents is not.
Jeff has a double standard and a triple chin.
And is aiming for a quadruple bypass.
When did he lose weight?
His local community college was doing a stage version of Raiders of the Lost Ark. He got the role as the boulder in the beginning scene but needed to lose weight to more realistically portray a humongous giant rock sphere.
You're not suggesting Jeffy is a fatfuck, now, are you? 😉
His corpulence must weigh heavily on him.
Jeff thinks he bears the weight of the world I'm his savior complex. It turns out the world is bearing his weight instead. Barely.
Does that bearing the weight involve trunks?
And each chin has an extra chin.
If an official act is prosecutable when it's a crime, the immunity is meaningless. In my understanding of the ruling, it very likely would give him immunity for sedition in this scenario.
Either way it's a hurdle we shouldn't have to jump and would only make successful prosecution of our 3rd to last criminal president less likely and more difficult.
Well yes it boils down to intent and lawyers would make the case that their was some legitimate government interest other than insurrection. And a district court judge would absolutely buy it.
"...In my understanding of the ruling,.."
None.
How can a President be breaking the law as part of their official duties?
How can a President's official duties involve breaking the law?
Then the immunity ruling is meaningless? If you have immunity unless you break the law, you have no immunity!
I've been assured by all the right people that a president who calls on his supporters to protest "peacefully and patriotically" is guilty of insurrection, so I don't see why a president's official acts can't be seditious.
That is not my understanding of that ruling at all.
OK. I'd like to see your take as one of the few treats me with respect despite our frequent disagreements. That way my heels aren't dug in before the conversation gets started.
Not sure if you’ll see this, sorry for the late reply.
As I understand, the absolute immunity only extends as far as “official acts” stemming from core constitutional powers. So it’s not like the President can just do whatever they hell they want and then cry “official act” to get away with it.
“This case is the first criminal prosecution in our Nation’s history of a former President for actions taken during his Presidency. Determining whether and under what circumstances such a prosecution may proceed requires careful assessment of the scope of Presidential power under the Constitution. The nature of that power requires that a former President have some immunity from criminal prosecution for official acts during his tenure in office.”
It seems to me that they’ve explicitly said that any act taken by the president can and should be reviewed to ensure it’s actually a prosecutable act. They go on to say that if it’s something he’s authorized to do by the powers vested in him, it’s basically unassailable. (So Obama murderdroning a US citizen in the course of executing the AUMF as CoC is an official act but Trump shooting an unarmed protestor on the White House lawn would not be.)
I’m Not sure it could be argued that spying on a political opponent could be considered an official act either, to be totally honest. Even if they were actually suspected of working with a foreign government. Sedition is most definitely not an official act.
I could probably go on because this topic is super interesting to me, but it’s stupid late and I have some work waiting for me.
Thank you, DesigNate.
I think we agree on the ruling for the most part.
What we seem to disagree on is whether or not investigating Trump was an official act.
What I was thinking is that the investigation of Trump is an official act. The president is in charge of the DOJ and it is their official duty to investigate crime. It is their discretion what to investigate as no criminal defense is ever made that any police agency should not have been investigating.
I’m super wary about the idea that spying on the opposition campaign is a legitimate function, but if we concede that the initial investigation is an official act, the subsequent “a new intelligence assessment was prepared…request,” that "directly contradicted the IC assessments that were made throughout the previous six months." Would not be.
Would be delicious for them to indict him on the seditious behavior only to have Trump pardon him and fully declassify all the dirt. No jail but a full accounting is just how scummy he and the whole Democrat apparatus was/is.
When all is said and done after that, Factio Democratica delenda est.
That would be awesome.
Mediocre Liz, glad you have had these travel experiences because the libertine-progressive journalists at Reason that cosplay as economists keep assuring us that in just two more weeks the prices to everything will be unaffordable because of HomemLaranjaRuim.
We are on ripples warning level 5.
Another friend of Lying Jeffy strikes again:
ARRESTED
Edwin Gomez-Cervantes — an illegal alien from Guatemala — was arrested for sexual abuse of a minor.
Thank you, ICE Baltimore.
https://mobile.x.com/ScottPresler/status/1946933460259487946
The illegal immigrants only a jeffsarc could love.
You’re a fascist and a racist!
- dipshit Molly
Guess: Sex offenders that are foreigners get more media attention than domestic ones.
Yes, everyone is aware of the media’s anti immigrant bias.
Tell us how the press pro-Trump bias caused Biden to lose, shitstain.
Blue Lives Matter
@RetiredNYCPD
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ICE arrests illegal alien, Jose Luis Mendoza-Gonzalez, 52 accused of decapitating woman after rogue Lake County Ill. judge Randie Bruno set him free under the SAFE-T Act. Mayor Gartner criticized laws that allowed the criminal alien to be released,
Portugal's great, I had to pick up my college roommate from there when he got deported from Spain.
We're both American.
Did your roommate get due process in Spain?
The friend should have been given citizenship as well as an all expenses paid upper middle class lifestyle while being allowed to commit felonies against the native Spanish.
He violated his student visa by partying / drinking all day and night instead of attending classes, so the university reported him, the federales came to raid his apartment, arrested him, put him in a VW bus and drove him to the Portuguese border, and kicked him out.
That was the process, and it was definitely due.
Is it possible we could enrich Portuguese culture in a way that would teach them other ways of knowing and doing?
Do they have McDonald's and Starbucks? Have we exported democracy hard enough? Do they hate us for our freedom? Could enough Akitas realign the hierarchy to align with our cultural superiority? What's the surfing like? Do they even know who Brian Wilson was? Are bikini tops optional on the beaches? Will Liz post pics? Didn't USAID have these problems solved under the benevolent leadership of autopen? Reason has ripped off a scab here and I feel like they owe us a think piece of at least a thousand words. All of this "stay in your lane" at the airport shit doesn't sound very libertarian to me.
Portugal sounds nice. I prefer America where we have some kid-friendly spaces and some adults only spaces and the gov't doesn't get involved. In some communities, i.e. NYC, the local gov't gets in parents' faces, but that's New York. Other communities are better. In most American small towns no one's going to arrest you for letting a 10-year-old ride his bike in the park by himself. I would wager that even in the German "no adults allowed" spaces in urban areas there is still some form of adult supervision for younger kids.
What goes on in the kids only spaces stays in the kids only spaces.
"Contrast this with the American approach: Our illustrious federal regulators publish the *Public* Playground Safety Handbook, which discourages playground designers from using free-swinging ropes."
Just another ?blessing?(curse) of having *Public*/Commie - Playgrounds for Kids. This article kind-of bounces around the master-point but is too vague at actually addressing the issue.
The USA wasn't founded on Collectivism. It was founded on Individualism. And within the corruption of what the USA has become is all the consequences this and many other oppression complaints sit.
Who am I to object to local custom?
Just don't get mad when Americans object to foreigners objecting to local custom. Like speaking English or going to a Christian church instead of a pagan mosque.
Kids are just very short, curious, learning machines, but just people. There is no reason that the reality of life need to be hidden.
Portugal has not been immune to the sinking-birthrate issues that have plagued the rest of the developed world
Importing a few million brown people not afraid to breed like rabbits should fix that right up.