School Choice Could Fix the Conflicts That Led to the Supreme Court's Mahmoud Decision
There’s no need to fight over lessons if you’re not forced to learn in government-run battlegrounds.

One of the final cases the U.S. Supreme Court decided at the end of its term last week was Mahmoud v. Taylor, in which a majority recognized the right of parents to opt out of lessons contrary to families' religious beliefs. In some circles, the decision is being portrayed as a setback for the treatment of gays, lesbians, and the differently gendered, since they were the focus of the books that the victorious plaintiffs objected to. That gets it all wrong. This case is really about the right of families to guide their children's education and the difficulty of doing that in the rigid confines of one-size-fits-some government schools.
You are reading The Rattler from J.D. Tuccille and Reason. Get more of J.D.'s commentary on government overreach and threats to everyday liberty.
When Lessons Clash With Religious Beliefs
Mahmoud v. Taylor revolves around the inclusion by Montgomery County, Maryland, public schools of books in which LGBTQ+ characters are the focus and their sexuality and conduct of their lives are presented in a positive manner. Initially, families with religious objections to the material were allowed to opt their children out of reading and discussing the books. Within a year, the schools rescinded the policy, arguing that too many families were opting out, imposing a burden on the system. Even so, the school continued to allow other opt-outs—including from sex education—that involved noncurricular activities or were mandated by state law.
A group of parents of several faiths, backed by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, filed suit.
Writing for the Supreme Court's majority, Justice Samuel Alito summarized the long list of Supreme Court cases that recognize parents' right to guide their children's education in matters of conscience and religion. That includes the right to reject public schooling recognized in Pierce v. Society of Sisters; the right to refuse to salute the flag, acknowledged in West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette; and Wisconsin v. Yoder, which recognized the right of Amish families to discontinue their children's education after eighth grade because "the values and programs of the modern secondary school are in sharp conflict with the fundamental mode of life mandated by the Amish religion."
In the case before the court this year, "these books impose upon children a set of values and beliefs that are 'hostile' to their parents' religious beliefs," Alito wrote in the majority opinion deciding Mahmoud v. Taylor. "And the books exert upon children a psychological 'pressure to conform' to their specific viewpoints. The books therefore present the same kind of 'objective danger to the free exercise of religion' that the Court identified in Yoder."
The majority found that the plaintiffs "are likely to succeed in their free exercise claims" and imposed a preliminary injunction on the school district preventing it from forcing children to participate in sessions based on the books in question.
The reaction was fast and furious.
"This ruling opens the door for school systems across the country to silence students, erase identities, and strip away the very protections that inclusive education was built to provide," objected the Montgomery County-based MoCo Pride Center.
"The decision has the power to disrupt our classrooms and our school communities by assaulting a bedrock principle of public education: that the diversity of our students and their families should be valued and celebrated," agreed the Montgomery County Education Association.
It's About Conflicting Values, Not Erasure
The complaints all place the decision in the context of the specific groups and ideology represented by the textbooks rather than acknowledging any tension between public institutions that want to teach favored ideas to kids and parents who resist because they hold different values.
Perhaps Rep. Jamie Raskin (D–Md.), who represents Montgomery County, came closest among the naysayers to the truth in his objections:
"Can students opt out of science classes where the theory of evolution is taught if it conflicts with their family religious beliefs in creation-science? Can students opt out of history classes where wars are taught if it conflicts with their family religious beliefs about nonviolence?" Raskin wrote in a statement. "All of them will now be able to flood the courts with claims that particular curricular teachings and books offend their sincere values and their children should not be exposed to the offensive doctrines."
Well, yes. As Alito pointed out, Mahmoud didn't come out of the blue; it's the latest of many cases recognizing that when ideas favored by teachers and administrators in public schools conflict with families' sincerely held beliefs, parents and children have a right to exempt themselves, leave public schooling, or even terminate formal education. The parents' request in Mahmoud to allow their kids to excuse themselves from reading some books is rather modest.
But parents' requested remedies could be wider-ranging. We live in a fractured society in which parents, educators, and school board members increasingly disagree over interpretations of history, whether children should be treated as individuals or as members of ethnic/linguistic/racial/sexual groups, public health policy, discipline, and so much more. The conflicts are heated.
"Reports of unruly school board meetings, protests over curricula, and lawsuits against district policies have been making regular appearances in the media," Lauraine Langreo commented last August for Education Week. "It feels as if every stakeholder—from school leaders to teachers, to parents, to students, to policymakers—is at odds."
Public Schools Turn Learning Into 'a Mere Battlefield for Sects and Parties'
Importantly, the philosopher John Stuart Mill, who believed parents should be required to educate their children, nevertheless rejected government-run schools because they create such conflicts. "That the whole or any large part of the education of the people should be in State hands, I go as far as any one in deprecating," he objected in On Liberty. That's because arguments "about what the State should teach, and how it should teach…convert the subject into a mere battle-field for sects and parties."
And that's what we see in endless arguments and court cases over school officials trying to inculcate students with ideas that are offensive to those students and their parents.
Mahmoud was a win for parents' right to guide their kids' education. But the best outcome is to get government out of the business of running schools. Then families can choose learning environments that suit them without fighting others over what and how the state should teach.
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"...the books exert upon children a psychological 'pressure to conform' to their specific viewpoints."
Which, when you parse the justifications to use these books in class was the entire point of the exercise. The people running the school are using the apparatus of the state to proselytize to a captive audience their own quasi-religious beliefs sanctifying LGBTQ+ status. It is view that the public school is primary parental influence on a child, not the actual parents.
It may be best to get government out of the business of running schools, but that also is not happening anytime soon. That is a massive rock to pry out of how the electorate views tge proper role of government.
So many on the left and union members have said exactly this. It is their right to indoctrinate your kids. The justify it as bettering society.
OH BS, can you say it's better for the American worker with unions destroyed for the last 45 years? NO you can't. I am the LEFT, I was a kid in NY State and I remember learning NY State history and I remember learning math, English, social studies, history, fucking ART and MUSIC, oh God you people find fault with anything but sitting in your room charging tolls on people who walk by. The subjects taught in public schools should be FACT based, if that facts is whites mistreated blacks, kids should learn it etc. you're a fool.
It’s teachers unions, ding dong, not the UAW.
So you're admitting, then, that public schools and administrators (and their horrible unions), and not parents, should have the final say in what kids are taught?
Of course Any subject taught in Any school should be fact-based, but if you really believe that at least Some Schools don't have some moral or societal "agenda" in their curriculum, then you're the fool.
Yes, what is taught in school should be factual. That doesn't mean that anything "fact based" should be taught in school. The best propaganda is entirely factual.
As you identify yourself as the LEFT, I assume you have been screeching a lot about democracy lately. Well, guess what? Democracy means that people you disagree with get a say in things like government run education. That means that if a significant part of the population doesn't want something taught in schools, then it shouldn't be taught in schools.
Not "quasi"-religious. This effort is based on nothing less than religious fervor and jihad.
Now that a majority in the US have abandoned religion, the majority within that majority (or any population) who don't want to think for themselves find solace in being told what "right" is. It is nothing but religion by another name.
"It is the unspoken truth of humanity that you craze subjugation"
Sure, Wilber.
Never consider getting the government completely out of education, just go for squandering tax money a different way.
Learn to READ much, before cummenting?
"But the best outcome is to get government out of the business of running schools."
Twat OUTRAGEOUS toadying and genuflecting towards Government Almighty! WHY can't Reason reason? Because of their TREASON!!!!
The whole point of public education, from the perspective of the teacher unions, IS indoctrination of students. Well, and higher pay and longer vacations.
Well, don't confuse education objectives with teachers union objectives. Nothing could be more disparate!
Prove that.. you can't, I'm am convinced that most of the 'Reason' Ayn Randers are stupid though. How ignorant is your statement. Even been in a UNION? nope I'll bet not. I have. When the progressive wave hits, I'm hoping it makes a permanent law that Ayn Rand was an idiot, shove free markets up the asses of idiots and uses fact based intelligence to run this country. Can't wait.
So, he says:
You answer
Well, let's see. What did the teacher's union for the school district in question have to say about the decision here, as quoted and linked in the main article?
If you're telling students what they should value and celebrate, you're instilling them with a specific doctrine. Such indoctrination is, per the teacher's union, a "bedrock principle of public education".
I guess you can argue he exaggerates very slightly by declaring it the "whole point", since the teacher's union names it just a bedrock principle, rather than the.
This is basic reading comprehension, buddy. If you graduated from school without mastering basic reading comprehension . . . well, that's hardly a surprise, is it?
If you want to convince people that leftists aren't retarded, you should probably stop commenting now.
" When the progressive wave hits, I'm hoping it makes a permanent law that Ayn Rand was an idiot, shove free markets up the asses of idiots and uses fact based intelligence to run this country. Can't wait."
Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Castro couldn't have said it any better.
Liberals are less happy than conservatives but, why?
Because their hates are far greater than their 'loves'
"the Democrat belief-system almost exclusively contained extreme attitudes as indicated by strong disagreement with each of the eight political issues. Conversely, the cluster reflecting the Republican belief-system contained a wider range of attitude responses ranging from mild disagreement to maximum agreement.”"
Democrats believe Republicans are evil, while Republicans believe Democrats are misguided. I agree, liberals hate "evil" Republicans, rather than love them. Dr, Jonathan Haidt wrote about his research into the moral underpinnings of both here in Reason: https://reason.com/2012/04/10/born-this-way/ which shows why.
I can understand those who wish well for Hitler (or the evil people living today): they want them to become good humans, while hating their actions. I don't see that with liberals regarding conservatives.
My father, son of a schoolteacher, reprobated any weakening of public schools but I disagree. Because I am a college teacher of 10 years and see what the results are. Now, of course, when something is wrong you can either replace it or reform it. But until parents are in charge, completely, they have kids who need educating right now.
This is the stupidity of Hillary Clinton and the teachers unions. You can't say 'It takes a village" and then spit on the villagers.
You can't say 'It takes a village" and then spit on the villagers.
You 100% can, especially when the FBI investigates parents for wrongthink.
Does anyone think this will simply go away? The next D administration will be business as usual.
I'm stealing that phrase!!!
Kids are not learning math, how to read, or how to write.
This is all extraneous bullshit that only a non-parent would consider relevant.
You can get free coffee at the local car repair shop but your brakes will fail after you go there. Good coffee though.
why should they? have you noticed that our Buddy Mr AI is all over the web, all over learning, kids won't have to write, they wont have to learn math, Ms. AI/Mr AI will do it. Let's not worry about the kids because they won't need to go to school
Gee, I didn't see this article coming. Who'd have thought that Tuccille would suggest that school choice would fix this 'problem' with education, just like it can fix every other problem with education?
I was also surprised to see an article from JD that didn't delve into TDS. JD, thanks for writing an article that stated the libertarian position and argued for it.
JD might have mentioned Trump's push for school choice as the civil right needing attention today (and supporting the libertarian position!) but he didn't (or the editor removed it). So, there's still some irrational feelings about Trump at Reason (and Trump is not entirely libertarian, so there are reasons to argue against some of his policies). At least Trump hasn't called for knocking Rand Paul out of the senate via a GOP primary. Sad to see he's done it to Massie (but only a $1 million ad campaign - I don't think it's going to work).
This case is really about the right of families to guide their children's education and the difficulty of doing that in the rigid confines of one-size-fits-some government schools.
Parents that want to guide their children's education themselves have only one option: homeschooling. As soon as a parent sends their child to a school with hundreds of other children for several hours each day, they are letting that school guide their child's education. This idea that school choice will allow a parent to guide their child's education is simply not how any of this works.
Choosing a school is choosing which group of professional educators will guide their child's education. There is not going to be a dozen or more options to choose from, either. A parent can only send their child to a school where they can transport the child to that school each day. A parent can only send their child to a school that accepts their child.
To me, the funniest thing about this case is this: A parent choosing a private school is going to have to accept the whole package of what that school teaches their children. There will be no Supreme Court precedent telling that private school that they have to let individual parents opt their children out of reading particular books or learning individual lessons. The private school might accommodate such requests, but there will be no law and no court order saying that they have to.*
So, "school choice" might allow a parent to opt out of a public school entirely, one that would now have to accommodate their desire to micromanage what specific texts are used in classrooms, only to send their children to private schools under no obligation to do that.
*I don't know how this ruling will relate to charter schools. They are public schools, but one thing that's often different in charter schools is discipline. Regular public schools have discipline systems moderated by decades of court cases and precedent protecting students' due process rights. I'm not sure how much of that is waived by parents when they enroll their children at a charter school.
well said and may I say that I think - no i'm sure - many of the idiot posters here just read the Fountainhead.
Well, yes. As Alito pointed out, Mahmoud didn't come out of the blue; it's the latest of many cases recognizing that when ideas favored by teachers and administrators in public schools conflict with families' sincerely held beliefs, parents and children have a right to exempt themselves, leave public schooling, or even terminate formal education. The parents' request in Mahmoud to allow their kids to excuse themselves from reading some books is rather modest.
It is not modest. It is a whole new level of micromanagement from parents about what happens inside the school. Parents' ability to opt their children out of subjects or activities in public schools has always been in regards to electives, extra-curricular activities, or performative traditions irrelevant to curriculum like the pledge. The one example that can be argued to go beyond that is sex education, when it is part of a required class. (It is often a unit in high school health classes required for graduation.) States have always been pressured to pass laws that allow parents to opt their children out of that in the state's public schools, but I am not aware of any SCOTUS precedent requiring it.
Fuck off. Historically parents have had more say and parents and school boards worked with parents and the community. Your team of democrats learned school boards were a good way to train politicians and then slowly turned schools into indoctrination centers, including takeover of teaching colleges. This started in the 90s and ramped up under Obama with shit like SEL.
fuck off asshole, I went to public school in the 50s and 60s our parents had zero say in school curriculum, our parents didn't got to PTA, our parents didn't come to school for lunch, our parents just did their thing and we did ours and learned basic facts in all subjects. LOL you little zeros have no historical context because you went to dumb ass schools. don't worry AI is coming and we can all be as dumb as you.
They weren’t teaching sexual deviance in schools in the 50s, especially not to 8yos, you senile halfwit
No, we had to learn about that stuff at Scout Camp.
A lot has happened since the 50s grandpa. Try to keep up you dumb cunt.
Parents didn't have these objections because for the most part what was being taught was not controversial. Part of that may be because of greater cultural uniformity at the time. But it was also understood that sex and politics didn't belong there. Parents getting involved is the symptom, not the cause. The cause is schools getting more and more into controversial subjects that don't have high social consensus around them at this point.
subjects that don't have high social consensus
Or general value otherwise.
LOVE this ... "micro management from parents". Who is RESPONSIBLE, Spanky? Unless you live in Orwelia, it is PARENTS. What a buffoooooooon!
Lastly, it will be really funny to see how this ruling interacts with efforts in a couple states to put the Ten Commandments in every classroom.
You seem really butthurt you can't fail students with your desire to indoctrinate kids.
Why is it funny? DO you imagine this is only about Christian religious people caring what their children are taught in school. In fact, it's another positive outcome. Government schools shouldn't be indoctrinating kids with any particular religion any more than they should be indoctrinating kids with the current trendy social ideologies around gender and sexuality. Settling ideological or religious debates by indoctrinating the next generation is what authoritarians do.
"Indoctrinating" children with ideology and values has always been a significant goal of all education, including public education. Or did you think that it doesn't count as indoctrination when we try and teach our school children that democracy is important (or a republican form of government, if you don't like using the word "democracy" that broadly), that we have inalienable rights that need to be protected, and other civil values? Have we been authoritarian with public education ever since Thomas Jefferson and others started advocating for it during the Founding?
"Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged." - Northwest Ordinance of 1787
Of course schools are to some extent in the business of indoctrination. Notice that I didn't say schools can't or shouldn't do that at all, but that government schools shouldn't be indoctrinating children in currently highly controversial things.
As a fairly extreme libertarian, I don't think government should be involved in any way with educating children. But assuming we're going to have government schools, it seems like it should be fairly obvious and uncontroversial that government schools only teach the things that are largely accepted by the significant majority of people as appropriate to teach in school. Unless you really do think it is the government's job to make sure parents can't choose the "wrong" values or educational priorities for their children
Notice that I didn't say schools can't or shouldn't do that at all, but that government schools shouldn't be indoctrinating children in currently highly controversial things.
Fair enough, in that you said that public schools shouldn't be indoctrinating kids to settle "ideological or religious debates." That said, what is "highly controversial" to one group is not at all controversial to others. Which is often why there is conflict over it. The people at the schools that implement things that others cry out as "indoctrination" often don't understand why anyone would oppose it. As a science teacher for 21 years in public schools, I would never have thought twice about whether I was "indoctrinating" my students when topics like the Big Bang or the theory of evolution came up. It was only the religious fundamentalists and some Evangelicals that insist on Young Earth creationism or Intelligent Design creationism that think of those things as being controversial.
As a fairly extreme libertarian, I don't think government should be involved in any way with educating children.
This is one of the reasons why I am not at all libertarian. I definitely don't see "extreme" libertarian views as anything but fantasy. I just don't see society functioning well without universal education for children through adolescence, I don't see any way for every child to be guaranteed anything close to equal opportunity in life without adequate access to education, and I don't see any way to ensure that without government. "School choice" as I've seen it from the libertarian and conservative advocates is a system that still has government involved, so that isn't a plan where government isn't involved "in any way with educating children." At a minimum, they still want government funding of education, such as through vouchers. And, if the government is going to fund it, you had better believe that I'd want to see government following up on what any private schools getting vouchers were doing with that money.
But assuming we're going to have government schools, it seems like it should be fairly obvious and uncontroversial that government schools only teach the things that are largely accepted by the significant majority of people as appropriate to teach in school.
And how is this different from how public schools work now? If you think that there are people in positions of authority in public schools and school systems that are not following what the elected leaders that represent a majority of the people are demanding, then that is where the focus should be.
Unless you really do think it is the government's job to make sure parents can't choose the "wrong" values or educational priorities for their children.
Well, the government represents a majority of the people (in theory), so if a "significant majority" think that the right "values or educational priorities" are "appropriate to teach in school", then that is what is going to be taught, and parents that want something different would have the "wrong" values. At least, that is what is going to be taught in the public schools that use public funds. Parents have always been free to opt out of those.
In fact, parents in the South opted out of regular public schools quite frequently when they held the "wrong" values about race.
What I find funny is exactly the lack of self-awareness and/or hypocrisy here. The same conservatives that decry "indoctrination" over "trendy social ideologies around gender and sexuality" are eager to use the power of the state to ensure that their ideology (and religion) is pushed in public schools. All while either being ignorant of the history of public education, or they are actively lying about it to frame the controversies in their favor.
If you really don't want schools to do any indoctrination, then will you put your vote where your views are and not vote for Republican hypocrites? Or will you continue to give them a pass because opposing the left is too important? What seems even more likely is that you'll follow the standard playbook and support their efforts to only count it as indoctrination when the ideas are the wrong ones.
Well, you know nothing about me and it shows. It's possible to oppose both leftist and religious indoctrinators being able to force their ideologies into public schools.
It's possible to oppose both leftist and religious indoctrinators being able to force their ideologies into public schools.
Of course. It was the way you put it that made me wonder, though:
Government schools shouldn't be indoctrinating kids with any particular religion any more than they should be indoctrinating kids with the current trendy social ideologies around gender and sexuality.
Your critique of the religious right here was broad and general, but your example of the left was very specific. That could have been because this case was about LGBTQ+ characters in a book used at the school, but I brought up a very specific example of what the religious right is doing as a counterpoint. That is why it struck me that you were likely applying this principle unevenly.
"There’s no need to fight over lessons if you’re not forced to learn in government-run battlegrounds."
So well said.. Deserved a repeat.
What did anyone expect the purpose of shoving those Gov-Guns into everything was for?
The only humanitarian asset 'Guns' can provide is to defend Liberty and ensure Justice for all.
you play too many video games.
There’s no need to fight over lessons if you’re not forced to learn in government-run battlegrounds.
So... agree to disagree but in the meantime keep shoving LGBTQI2MAP+ ideology down the kids' throats until we get the government out of the school system in the year 2376?
If it was only the ideology - - - - - - - - -
School choice?
Are you crazy?
If parents had school choice, they would take their kids out of public schools.
Then who would indoctrinate the children of the masses in failed Marxist ideas and other leftist bullshit?
Then who would indoctrinate the children of the masses in failed Marxist ideas and other leftist bullshit?
You're making the conservative goals of all of these cases and of school choice even more obvious than it already was. The problem isn't that public schools are indoctrinating kids. It is that they are indoctrinating them in the wrong things!
Teach them that the Ten Commandments are the basis of law in the U.S? Obviously we should do that in public schools! Teach them that America is the greatest country history has ever seen? Duh! Teach them that slavery couldn't have been all that bad when slaves learned useful skills, and besides, we fixed any racism a long time ago. How can any of that be indoctrination when it is so obviously true?!?!
Nice strawman, buddy. No one here is making that argument. I know such people exist, but that's not the only argument being made and as far as I can see it's not being made here by anyone.
Sullum?
the differently gendered
They aren't differently gendered and that's the problem. They're still just he/she and they can't force other people to change and all of biology to conform to their whims (just like everyone else).
Unless you're conflating "differently gendered" with "differently abled" for some incredibly disgusting sympathy points. Then, sure, someone who's had their genitals cut off or been voluntarily sterilized is differently abled the way someone who's stepped on a landmine or been sterilized by chemotherapy is differently abled.
Parents don't just need school choice.
They need blanket immunity for the murder of LGBT Pedo teachers. On a sliding scale, if need be - more questioned for high school, not at all questioned when it comes to offing elementary school groomers.