As American as Due Process
Those accused of wrongdoing have the right to challenge the evidence against them before the government takes away their liberty.

The U.S. is a nation of symbols: the bald eagle, the Statue of Liberty, baseball, apple pie. One symbol, however, has taken a beating lately, though it represents the core of the American project.
Lady Justice predates the founding, but her likeness—blindfolded, holding scales and a sword—stands for the principles that the Founders insisted should rule the American legal system. While her spirit pervades the Constitution, it is most prominently featured in the Fifth Amendment's promise of due process: the principle that those accused of wrongdoing have the right to challenge the evidence against them before the government takes away their liberty.
But not everyone who swore to uphold the Constitution is keeping that promise. "If you violated the law, you are not entitled to due process," Rep. Victoria Spartz (R–Ind.) said in a March town hall. In April, Sen. Mike Lee (R–Utah) posted an image on X that encouraged travel to Canada. "We won't throw you into an El Salvadorian [sic] gulag without due process!" the image read. "[The U.S.] absolutely will," Lee responded. Tom Homan, Trump's border czar, was asked on ABC if people sent to El Salvador had any due process. "Where was Laken Riley's due process?" he replied, referring to the Georgia nursing student who was murdered by Jose Ibarra, an immigrant who was in the country illegally and was convicted and sentenced to life without parole for the murder.
Homan's non sequitur sums up the current debate, sparked by the Trump administration sending hundreds of Venezuelans it alleges to be gang members, without due process, to the Centro de Confinamiento del Terrorismo (CECOT), a massive prison in El Salvador. That nation's president, Nayib Bukele, declared a state of emergency over three years ago and suspended basic civil liberties, such as the right to a fair trial.
Questions about whether the administration is indeed expelling only dangerous gang members arose after CECOT received the men, the vast majority of whom have no criminal record. That includes, among others, Andry José Hernández Romero, a Venezuelan makeup artist who appears to have been flagged because he has two crown tattoos, and Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, whom the Trump administration illegally sent to CECOT due to what it says was an "administrative error."
To argue that Riley's murder, tragic though it was, justifies skirting due process fundamentally misunderstands the purpose of the doctrine. It is not to excuse criminal behavior, but to ensure that accusations—especially when they carry life-altering consequences—are publicly tested by evidence and judged fairly.
Homan's logic would see due process abolished. It need not apply, he says, in the face of serious allegations or unsympathetic individuals, which is contrary to why the Founders demanded its inclusion in the Constitution. They knew the power of the state was dangerous. The government doesn't always get it right. "Because we said so" isn't sufficient reason to abrogate anyone's liberty.
That the prisoners sent to CECOT were not citizens is irrelevant. The Supreme Court has repeatedly confirmed that even those suspected of being in the U.S. unlawfully are entitled to due process of law. And the people in question were not merely deported—they were sent without charge or conviction to a notorious megaprison, where Kristi Noem, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, has said she hopes the men are kept for life.
Is it possible that Hernández Romero, Abrego Garcia, and others are members of a gang? It is. It is also possible they are not. Consider that one man Noem attempted to deport narrowly made it to a hearing before she could do so because the plane malfunctioned—and the government was not able to produce any evidence that he was a member of the Tren de Aragua gang, according to his attorney. Justice should not be reduced to vengeance, and constitutional rights should not be treated as privileges, revocable at a politician's whim.
A country that claims to value liberty cannot shed the process meant to protect it. If due process is no longer sacred, neither is justice; and if some of us do not have due process, then none of us do. Trump has defined himself as someone who fights for American values: "Make America Great Again." You cannot do that by discarding one of the core values that made the U.S. exceptional.
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You keep pretending due process involves courts and months to years of hearings.
It does not. At all.
That’s exactly what it means.
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between regular courts and immigration courts.
I understand. They get to have a hearing, regardless of the venue. And they can appeal that decision. That’s how the system works.
They have all had their hearing. Your lie is claiming that they haven't.
No, they haven’t. In fact, most of them didn’t. They were accused, arrested, and deported without a hearing.
Liar. Reported.
Sad.
Don’t be a fag chuckie.
Lol. Commie fuck.
"Reported"?
What are you? Some sort of authoritarian snowflake asshole?
Oh, report me, too.
Reported to one of the Chinese police stations in the USA?
That’s where fag-boy works.
charliehall wants ML to face consequences for disagreeing with him.
Shocker: you’re wrong.
This one highlights the case where the man missed his hearing because he had already been sent to El Salvador. So how could he have had his hearing if he was deported before it happened?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/03/21/venezuelan-immigrants-deportations-gang-member-evidence/82570298007/
It you know as well as I do that there was no intention or effort to limit the deportations to people who had already had (and lost) their hearing.
Lying about it is just par for the paleocon course.
There is no right to an asylum hearing dumdum.
He is from Venezuela. He passed multiple safe harbor countries. His asylum claim wasn't even valid due to that fact despite liberals like you not understanding safe harbor guidelines on asylum.
It's not even real. Read the story. The guy is hiding and his wife is making shit up.
Speaking of lying, they’re running a scam and you’re a participant, shill…
“Stepping forward, an attorney with an immigrant rights group told (Judge) Imburgia that Laya Freites’ wife believed he’d been shipped to El Salvador’s CECOT Salvadoran prison…
“She saw her husband on video at the Salvadoran prison,” attorney Monique Sherman told Imburgia…
Without her husband’s salary and work permit, Laya Freites’ wife doesn’t have much money coming in. Although she also requested asylum and work permission, her case is still pending…”
The guy took off and skipped his hearing so he wouldn’t get deported, and the only evidence at all… anywhere… for your narrative, is his crooked wife swearing she saw him on a video that wasn’t presented at court and nobody else has seen. And she’s trying to use that as a sob story so she doesn’t get extradited too.
What the fuck, KAR.
Seriously, the fact you’re trying to present this obvious fraud as some sort of evidence is almost more pathetic than retarded.
Everything you ever post is total bullshit.
The government said they were using emergency war-time powers to skip the hearing part. What do you mean they had their hearings?
And exactly which war did congress declare we were in?
This is false retard.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/235.3
You can tell you're being intentionally retarded, by the way, because you say this even for illegals who have had multiple court hearings.
Youre just a lying leftist.
It’s official. The democrat summer 2025 riot season has begun!
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/president-trump-sends-national-guard-as-violent-anti-ice-riots-erupt-in-los-angeles
FTA:
“The National Guard was deployed to Los Angeles County as anti-ICE protests continued to escalate Saturday afternoon and into the evening. The unrest is centered in the city of Paramount, California, where protesters clashed with federal authorities, including Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers who were allegedly trying to conduct a raid at a local business.”
So much fodder for the 2026 mid terms. And this is just the beginning.
Does this mean we can wear "white" shoes?
The Republican riot season began January 21 when ICE began making warrantless arrests and entering buildings without warrants to kidnap people who were not accused of any crime.
Sad.
Lol. Commie fuck.
No, this was all lawful. All of it. You democrats are interfering, and according to your own standards, that means democrat resisotnece is……
INSURRECTION!!!!!!!!!!
They have no standards, morals or principles. That’s their super power.
Amazing number of falsehoods in such a short post.
Not warrantless. No kidnapping. Entering buildings is quite legal.
If ICE didn't have a search warrant signed by at least a federal magistrate, it had no business being there.
Eventually some gun nut is going to shoot back at these illegal ICE raids and someone will die.
When will ICE start obeying the law and the Constitution?
Sad.
A) they had warrants retard.
B) it isn't even required lol.
Are you Stunned Stoned or just Stupid?
They had warrants. This was 100% legal. Very democrat rioting and attempting to obstruct ICE is lay of insurrection (by your own standards).
Looks like it’s time for the federal government to start incarcerating democrat traitor.
Sorry Charlie.
Democrats were so successful with the BLM riots that they released the rioters again. Let the looting and pillaging begin!
“ because you say this even for illegals who have had multiple court hearings.”
Anyone who has had a hearing, lost, and exhausted their appeals have had their due process and, as long as the government follows any rulings (like not sending someone to a specific country), they should absolutely be deported.
As long as they have had due process, everything is good.
But that is NOT what the Trump Administration says. It claims the right to deport people for any reason, with no hearings, just because it is the Trump Administration.
Liar
Sad.
They received the appeals afforded them under federal law.
Zero.
Now you democrats better step off before you get the same ‘due process’ you gave to the J6 defendants.
“ But that is NOT what the Trump Administration says”
Correct. They don’t think they need to have any due process, just say they have gang tattoos and ship them off without proving anything.
That doesn’t change the fact that Garcia, for example, had lost his deportation hearing and an appeal. The only place he couldn’t be deported to was El Salvador. That was the problem, not that he was deported at all. He has been subject to deportation since 2019.
Garcia has had due process. Many of the others did not.
This remains false.
How do you keep making this claim despite having the actual laws linked and cited for you multiple times in this thread?
Just proving you are willingly ignorant?
A hearing isn't required.
Do you know what those underlined words are? Hint. You'll be less retarded if you choose to click it and mouth out the words.
“ This is false retard.”
And yet your link has the word “determined” throughout. The government saying something isn’t a determination. Due process provides a determination, where the government’s accusation is affirmed.
You remain either willfully ignorant or intellectually incapable. Probably both.
I have never had a problem with the deportation of illegals who have had due process. I am, if fact, very much in favor of it. It’s one of the few things the Biden administration did well.
LMAO. No Biden didn't. Obama and Clinton did though.
Riiiiight.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-deportation-numbers-obama-biden-b2649257.html
This is the part I find most interesting, given how Trump characterizes his deportations:
“ The Obama administration placed a particular focus on “threats to national security, border security and public safety” by targeting convicted criminals. In 2015, for example, 91 percent of people removed by deportation orders had criminal convictions.
Trump explicitly overturned this criminal prioritization measure as soon as he entered office, for the reason that: “We cannot faithfully execute the immigration laws of the United States if we exempt classes or categories of removable aliens from potential enforcement.”
By comparison, just 41 percent of deportations by removal order in 2019 were directed at convicted criminals.”
So not only did Obama deport way more illegals, he focused on criminals so he removed WAY more dangerous illegals.
So Trump sucks at deporting illegals and sucks even more at deporting criminals.
When Obama cleans your clock on illegal immigration, you’re clearly doing something wrong.
Majority of trumps deportees have been criminal retard. Just like Obama. A particular focus, as in your article, doesn't mean a sole focus dumbass.
Are you functionally illiterate?
So Trump sucks at deporting illegals and sucks even more at deporting criminals.
Your crooked Soros judges and retard law-breaking California sheriffs are playing a big part in that.
Barry wasn't fighting with a bunch of bribed criminals passing fraudulent injunctions on everything.
You mean when sanctuary cities will not cooperate and force ICE to find the criminals --- they MIGHT find others?
Shocker.
They are not going to ignore OTHER illegals they find when seeking the more hardcore criminal illegals.
What was different in 2019 compared to 2016? What happened, what changed for the numbers of convicted criminals versus denied asylum seekers being deported.
Oh I know. Trump was securing the border and shutting down the criminals from entering and the Sanctuary mobsters heightened their illegal criminal protections reducing ICE's capability.
And Obama deported large swaths of non criminal illegals without a second court date or additional due processes which are not in the laws or constitution to have to provide.
Your posts get dumber and dumber Nelson. Even in your link above it was determined he wasn't a legal resident dumdum.
Yes. The government makes this determination as described by law. Fully within the article 2 branch.
It's like you want to prove you're retarded.
The law you were referring to talks about people entering the country being stopped at the border (or at the airport immigration/customs area).
It specifically says, not those that have been paroled or those that can establish they've been here for 2 years (and a whole bunch of exceptions).
" In the expedited removal process, the Service may not charge an alien with any additional grounds of inadmissibility other than section 212(a)(6)(C) or 212(a)(7) of the Act." That would include gang activity or trafficking or whatever else.
"I understand. They get to have a hearing, regardless of the venue. And they can appeal that decision. That’s how the system works."
No, you don't "understand".
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
LOL, learn before you speak. Spewing the crap that swirls around in your head is still crap regardless if you want it to be or not..
Tell me you do not know what you're talking about without saying you do not know what you're talking about.
The whole article read like it was written by some meth addict who just finished huffing spray paint.
That’s exactly what it means.
No it doesn't.
ChatGPT, give me a list of due process in the American legal and administrative systems extends beyond formal courtroom trials:
Certainly. Due process in the American legal and administrative systems extends well beyond formal courtroom trials. Below is a list of non-trial forms of due process, many of which occur in administrative or quasi-judicial settings. All are mechanisms by which individuals are given a chance to be heard or challenge a decision before a government body takes adverse action against them.
1. Administrative Hearings
-Conducted by government agencies (e.g., immigration, social security, employment boards)
-Less formal than trials, but allow presentation of evidence and witness testimony
-Common in disciplinary actions, benefits disputes, license revocations
2. Parole and Probation Hearings
-Determine whether to grant, revoke, or modify parole or probation
-Involve testimony, evidence, and representation but are not held in a criminal court
3. School Disciplinary Hearings
-Required before long-term suspension or expulsion of a student
-Must provide notice and an opportunity to respond to allegations
4. Mental Health Commitment Hearings
-Determine if an individual may be involuntarily committed for psychiatric care
-Can involve medical evidence and testimony
5. Immigration Hearings
-Cover issues such as asylum claims, deportation, or visa status
-Handled by administrative immigration judges within the DOJ
6. Public Benefits Hearings
-When benefits (e.g., Social Security, Medicaid, food stamps) are denied, reduced, or terminated
-Individuals can appeal through an administrative law judge
7. Civil Service or Employment Grievance Hearings
-For public sector employees facing disciplinary action, demotion, or termination
-Often include the right to union representation and to present evidence
8. Licensing and Regulatory Hearings
-For professional licenses (doctors, contractors, etc.) or business operations
-Hearings occur before administrative boards if a license is denied or revoked
9. Property Seizure or Forfeiture Hearings
-Due process must be provided before government can seize property (e.g., civil asset forfeiture, eminent domain)
10. Zoning or Land Use Hearings
-Affect landowners' rights; due process requires notice and opportunity to object to zoning changes
11. Child Welfare / Custody Hearings
-When the state seeks to remove children from parental custody
-Preliminary and ongoing hearings ensure procedural protections for parents
12. School Board or University Disciplinary Panels
-For student misconduct or faculty grievances in public institutions
-May include legal representation, witnesses, and an appeal process
13. DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) Hearings
-For license suspensions or revocations (e.g., DUI-related)
-Administrative rather than criminal in nature
14. Pardon and Clemency Reviews
-While not judicial, there is often a process allowing submission of arguments, petitions, or evidence
15. Tax Appeals or Audit Disputes
-Taxpayers can contest IRS or state tax decisions in administrative forums like the U.S. Tax Court
These types of hearings and proceedings uphold the procedural due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, requiring fair notice and a meaningful opportunity to be heard before the government deprives someone of life, liberty, or property—even when no formal trial takes place. Let me know if you’d like Canadian comparisons or more on a specific category.
Ask it about summary removal. Illegal aliens have no due process right to remain in this country and federal law specifically provides for expedited summary removal.
"federal law specifically provides for expedited summary removal."
Only under very limited circumstances and even that is of dubious constitutionality. The language in the Fifth Amendment is very clear.
The 5th applies only to American citizens you liar.
5th applies to criminal law for the most part, not civil.
“ The 5th applies only to American citizens you liar.”
Are you in a race with Jesse to see how stupid you can be? The Fifth Amendment (like all of the Bill of Rights) applies to all people. Nowhere does it mention citizens:
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
Bitch, you’re wrong. You’re doing the same thing Pedo Jeffy does, where he makes up some law, or legal standard that doesn’t exist and keeps pushing it no matter how many times he’s proven wrong.
In any event, this sounds like you’re suborning insurrection. Would you like some ‘due process’ just like your fellow travelers gave to the J6 defendants?
What does your retarded assertion have to do with civil infractions dumdum?
I swear you are getting dumber than sarc.
Narrator: it is not limited.
He’s gone full Pedo Jeffy now.
Sad.
I sincerely hope you are kidding. You know that ChatGPT and everything of its ilk cannot be trusted to spit out the truth ? Time and time again these things are wrong, and will often verify themselves with themselves and think that they are correct. Stop using AI nonsense and pick up a book and do your own sourcing.
It doesn't matter what side of the argument you are on, AI is not up to vetting the answers it gives.
I sincerely hope you didn't post this after the actual law was posted right above.
You know the point of posting that or a link to cnn by the non-left sympathetic posters is to show that even those places agree with their point, right?
It’d be like you posting something from The Federalist or Fox News.
"You know that ChatGPT and everything of its ilk cannot be trusted to spit out the truth"
WHICH ONE WAS INACCURATE, YOU SOCKPUPPETING, FIFTY-CENTING FUCK?
Come on, which one was inaccurate? There's fifteen examples. If "cHaTgpT nO tELL tRuTh", which was wrong?
This isn't HuffPo. You're not going to get away with Poisoning the Well, a Hasty Generalization, and Begging the Question without even bothering to say why.
I sincerely hope that they don't pay you for that F minus response.
Given your resort to profanity I guess nothing in your comment was accurate, because you can't defend it by an actual citation. ChatGPT makes up all kinds of stuff, like the non-existent journal articles RFK cited in his embarrassing MAHA document.
Lol. Retarded commie fuck.
Sad.
You’re so desperate. But that makes sense. You’re too stupid to come up with anything cogent or based in fact.
Seethe harder you insurrection suborning loser.
Given your phony whine about profanity and refusal to state what in the comment was inaccurate, I surmise it's because you know you're lying.
Really. If you're going to sockpuppet and fifty-cent here at least bring your D game.
I sincerely hope you will make the world a better place by fucking off and dying, asshole.
Since thousands of democrats have already started insurrecting in LA, it won’t be long before the democrat filth here join in. Then they too can receive ‘due process’.
The same ‘due process’ afforded the J6 detainees.
“ 5. Immigration Hearings
-Cover issues such as asylum claims, deportation, or visa status
-Handled by administrative immigration judges within the DOJ”
Wait, there are judges? And an appeals process? And they can be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court? Hmmmm. Your position seems to be a distinction without a difference.
The point is that you can’t just deport someone on just the say-so of the government. You have to give them a chance to dispute the accusations. That’s due process.
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/policy-alerts/NTA_Policy_FINAL_2.28.25_FINAL.pdf
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1182&num=0&edition=prelim
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1227&num=0&edition=prelim
So if it is so clear and easy, why is the Trump Administration misusing a wartime act to deport people? And why are they working so hard to get them out of the country before any objections can be raised? And why are they comfortable doing so when they have been shown that they are deporting people who shouldn’t be deported as well as deporting them to places they aren’t supposed to be sent?
When someone is doing things in a furtive and secretive way and ignoring any mistakes they make, it sure makes it seem like the things you are referencing don’t actually work the way you say they do.
Tell me, why do something the hard way when you can do more, faster, and cleaner the easy way?
Can’t we just go back to the way Obama did it? Deporting more illegals with a 91% criminal deportation rate seems a lot better than less illegals with a 41% criminal deportation rate, doesn’t it?
Just because one law exists doesn't mean other laws dont exist you fucking moron.
God damn. I'm saving this thread for next time you claim you understand even basic shit.
And Nelson can't figure out what administrative courts are lol.
The laws literally say article 3 has no involvement fucking retard.
Nelson, do you wake up every morning and ask yourself what ignorant retarded shit you can post here?
Spend some time educating yourself instead. You'd benefit from even 5 minutes a day. Maybe.
Still hoping for USAID funding reversals, and restoration of 50 cent payments.
Nelson is far more useful processed into mulch.
“ Nelson, do you wake up every morning and ask yourself what ignorant retarded shit you can post here?”
I forgot more things before I graduated high school than you’ve know in your life. See my post above, that points out that immigration hearings can be appealed, all the way up to the Supreme Court. But apparently that doesn’t count as “courts” to you.
Every time I think you can’t possibly be as stupid as your posts make you seem, you prove me wrong.
Another elite-wannabe superiority complex asshole.
He fits right in with this crummy webzine.
Yeah, I’m such a fool to think that doing it the successful way that deported more people and more criminals than the Trump way that deported fewer people and way fewer criminals is a better approach.
“The Obama administration placed a particular focus on “threats to national security, border security and public safety” by targeting convicted criminals. In 2015, for example, 91 percent of people removed by deportation orders had criminal convictions.
Trump explicitly overturned this criminal prioritization measure as soon as he entered office, for the reason that: “We cannot faithfully execute the immigration laws of the United States if we exempt classes or categories of removable aliens from potential enforcement.”
By comparison, just 41 percent of deportations by removal order in 2019 were directed at convicted criminals.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-deportation-numbers-obama-biden-b2649257.html
And here Nelson thinks border turnbacks are the same as interior deportations.
Nelson, you are truly a glorious retard. God damn.
He continues to prove he doesn't even u destiny the basics, even when given citations. He thinks administrative courts are in article 3.
Dude is fucking retarded.
Nelson, you should read my book, “Everything you’ve ever learned, I Knew by Kindergarten”. It will make the distinction between educated people, like us, and a brainwashed, ignorant retard, like yourself.
Don’t ever think for a moment that you’re more intelligent than any non democrat. You’re not. You are subnormal, soulless filth. And the more you rage and fight, the closer you are to a prison cell, or perhaps a landfill.
GTFO of my country, before things get real fucking bad for you. And it might be too late sooner than your dumb ass thinks.
He may be more intelligent than a standard reddit dumbass. But that's not saying much.
Your post that was fucking wrong? Lol.
Not to these clowns. To them due process means that a senior officer on the scene has to actually say 'fire' before the alleged suspects are executed.
And jewfree one ups Nelson.
JFucked has a tendency to do so.
He describes what his fellow travelers in Hamas do to innocent Jews.
What has been the prescribed “due process” for illegal aliens for the past 100 years, J(ew)Free?
Is ICE under the Trump administration doing it, or not doing it?
Retarded fucking clown.
“ Is ICE under the Trump administration doing it, or not doing it?”
They are not doing it. That’s the point.
You keep pretending that supporting due process is the same as opposing deportation. It isn’t.
You’re a liar. You wouldn’t part with a single one of your precious illegals.
And you have yet to provide a single example of them “not doing it”, you fucking liar.
Your one “example” turned out to be a wife lying about her husband's whereabouts. That’s it.
If you want to be a paid internet politruck, you’re going to have to try harder. You’re going to get replaced with a bot at the end of the year if you don’t start doing better.
Nope.
The process that's due for deportation is identifying them and ascertaining whether they're here legally or not. If they entered illegally or overstayed a visa, it's time for them to GTFO.
-jcr
Should they be locked in a detention cell for the duration?
No. It doesn't.
'Due process' is the process whereby an interaction with an authoritative agent is handled properly.
Your due process at the post Office is to pay for your postage correctly and have the government workers process and deliver your item.
At the DMV it is to receive your plates/registration/license etcetera when you complete the process required for each of those.
Due process has different procedures based on who or what is being interacted with.
If you have slipped across the border illegally and are caught your due process is referred to as expedited removal. There is no trial, no court. Because none is needed. You are not a citizen, you did not come here legally. There are no circumstances that can extenuate.
They are being intentionally ignorant at this point. Their goal is to make deportations illegal by putting millions of people here through months long trials. It is evil.
The process due is written into the laws. It has been valid for decades. But reason prefers to intentionally ignore this.
Due process leading to deportation is good. Deportation without due process is bad.
Even someone with your limited cognitive ability should be able to understand the difference.
Learn the law, you failed.
You’re just a democrat. And like every other democrat that posts here, you’re far less intelligent than Al, the non democrats.
Best you just learn to obey.
You. Still. Don't. Understand. What. Due. Process. Means. Retard.
This whole article was bleating nonsensical drivel. Binion is an angry, screeching baby. I wrote more coherent opinion papers in high school.
Some people certainly would benefit from reading the actual law that applies in so many cases (although not in Garcia's, apparently; his deportation orders were based on different grounds)...
8 CFR § 235.3 - Inadmissible aliens and expedited removal.
(b) Expedited removal—(1) Applicability. The expedited removal provisions shall apply to the following classes of aliens who are determined to be inadmissible under section 212(a)(6)(C) or (7) of the Act:
(i) Arriving aliens, as defined in 8 CFR 1.2;
(ii) As specifically designated by the Commissioner, aliens who arrive in, attempt to enter, or have entered the United States without having been admitted or paroled following inspection by an immigration officer at a designated port-of-entry, and who have not established to the satisfaction of the immigration officer that they have been physically present in the United States continuously for the 2-year period immediately prior to the date of determination of inadmissibility.
(ii) No entitlement to hearings and appeals. Except as otherwise provided in this section, such alien is not entitled to a hearing before an immigration judge in proceedings conducted pursuant to section 240 of the Act, or to an appeal of the expedited removal order to the Board of Immigration Appeals.
Explained in layman's terms...
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/immigration/deportation-defense/expedited-removal/
Expedited removal is a form of “summary” deportation. It allows the Department of Homeland Security (“DHS”) to deport non-U.S. citizens immediately and without a formal hearing. Under U.S. immigration law, people who can be deported by expedited removal are those who:
Entered the U.S. without valid documents (such as a passport and/or visa);1 or
Obtained entry by actual or attempted fraud or misrepresentation.2
The majority of people deported by expedited removal are those caught entering the U.S. unlawfully.
But as the result of a recent White House Executive Order expanding expedited removal, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) can summarily deport anyone who:
Is suspected of being in the U.S. unlawfully, and
Cannot prove that he or she has been in the U.S. continuously for at least two years.3
People in expedited removal proceedings do not have the right to a hearing in front of an immigration judge.
Thank you for posting that.
Many of our erstwhile friends have admitted that they know this, they just don’t like the process.
Yeah, it isn't nearly "processy" enough to please them.
And that means it wasn't "due", right?
That XO goes way beyond the statute which is itself of dubious constitutionality.
"Is suspected of being in the U.S. unlawfully, and
Cannot prove that he or she has been in the U.S. continuously for at least two years"
I have not been in the US continuously for at least two years, as I traveled to Canada 23 months ago. I also cannot prove that I am a US citizen under a different XO of dubious constitutionality because my birth certificate does not have my parents' names on it and in any case I can't prove that they are US citizens either. So by your standards and Trump's standards, I can be deported to El Salvador and imprisoned there for eternity.
If Trump wins these court cases, President Ocasio-Cortez will be able to deport most of the MAGA trolls to Venezuela, so there is a silver lining in this.
You keep making bald face lies even after scotus rejects the arguments of your activist judges. Lol.
Sad.
Another type of deportation ALSO does not require the sort of due process Jeff, et al. are crying for (since they often seem to conflate the actual due process owed by law and what they imagine due process *should* be for EVERYTHING).
"Reinstatement of removal" proceedings are aimed at people who have previously been deported.
8 USC 1231: Detention and removal of aliens ordered removed
(5) Reinstatement of removal orders against aliens illegally reentering
If the Attorney General finds that an alien has reentered the United States illegally after having been removed or having departed voluntarily, under an order of removal, the prior order of removal is reinstated from its original date and is not subject to being reopened or reviewed, the alien is not eligible and may not apply for any relief under this chapter, and the alien shall be removed under the prior order at any time after the reentry.
Actually, I've observed Jeff to tacitly, at least, acknowledge that perhaps due process doesn't mean what it is being touted as in immigration cases, then switching immediately to something along the lines of "but shouldn't we WANT that kind of due process for these cases?".
A third type of deportation ALSO does not end up with aliens in front of federal judges of any sort...Stipulated Removal is basically a plea bargain between arrested aliens, usually in detention, wherein they agree to voluntary departure.
Title 8 Chapter I Subchapter B Part 240
§ 240.25 Voluntary departure—authority of the Service.
(a) Authorized officers. The authority contained in section 240B(a) of the Act to permit aliens to depart voluntarily from the United States may be exercised in lieu of being subject to proceedings under section 240 of the Act by district directors, assistant district directors for investigations, assistant district directors for examinations, officers in charge, chief patrol agents, the Deputy Executive Associate Director for Enforcement and Removal Operations, the Director of the Office of Juvenile Affairs, service center directors, and assistant service center directors for examinations.
(b) Conditions. The Service may attach to the granting of voluntary departure any conditions it deems necessary to ensure the alien's timely departure from the United States, including the posting of a bond, continued detention pending departure, and removal under safeguards. The alien shall be required to present to the Service, for inspection and photocopying, his or her passport or other travel documentation sufficient to assure lawful entry into the country to which the alien is departing. The Service may hold the passport or documentation for sufficient time to investigate its authenticity. A voluntary departure order permitting an alien to depart voluntarily shall inform the alien of the penalties under section 240B(d) of the Act.
(c) Decision. The authorized officer, in his or her discretion, shall specify the period of time permitted for voluntary departure, and may grant extensions thereof, except that the total period allowed, including any extensions, shall not exceed 120 days. Every decision regarding voluntary departure shall be communicated in writing on Form I-210, Notice of Action—Voluntary Departure. Voluntary departure may not be granted unless the alien requests such voluntary departure and agrees to its terms and conditions.
(d) Application. Any alien who believes himself or herself to be eligible for voluntary departure under this section may apply therefor at any office of the Service. After the commencement of removal proceedings, the application may be communicated through the Service counsel. If the Service agrees to voluntary departure after proceedings have commenced, it may either:
(1) Join in a motion to terminate the proceedings, and if the proceedings are terminated, grant voluntary departure; or
(2) Join in a motion asking the immigration judge to permit voluntary departure in accordance with § 240.26.
The Trump Administration isn't using Voluntary Departure.
Yes they are. They even offer free flights and $1000.
Have you ever written anything informed or truthful here?
No, he hasn’t.
Sad.
Search all the modern literature on human rights and you will find a "right to emigrate" --- you will never find a right to immigrate, so Billy's just doing what kids do with serious problems " Why don't we just give everybody a million dollars"
And that has nothing to do with the right to due process. If the government asserts something, they are obligated to prove it.
If you're not here legally, no, the government does not have to demonstrate anything beyond that. And they have that info readily on hand.
BUT THAT IS MEAN!
And correct; enough: There's the door and don't let it hit you in the ass on your way out.
Wrong. You get a chance to prove that you ARE here legally. I can not prove that I am in the US legally according to Trump's XOs. And I am 12th generation born in America.
The MAGA hatemongers do not realize how awful this is.
This remains false and retarded. See case of Arizona person. You know the one that falsely claimed to be an illegal to get arrested?
Have you tried to ever be truthful?
Sad.
So you don’t have birth certificate? Or the birth certificate of at Elias tone parent who was born here? Or any of the dozens of other things that would easily prove you’re a citizen?
“ If you’re not here legally, no, the government does not have to demonstrate anything beyond that”
And how, pray tell, is such a determination arrived at? If the government says “You’re illegal” and you say “No, I’m not”, how is that disagreement adjudicated? Or should it just be accepted that the government is telling the truth and you are lying, in your opinion?
Citizens have records that prove their citizenship you retard. You probably also believe that one out of four blacks doesn’t have any form of legal ID too.
Poor retarded ignorant Nelson.
Yet every time you try to “show” that you are right, you fail. You are batting under .100, at best.
Due process means the process set out in law. For illegal immigrants, that means the Sec of State determines whether they are threats to national security and can have them deported.
Else why have laws?
No, that’s not due process. That’s the government saying something. Due process is where the person the government is saying things about gets to challenge those things.
And having laws allows the government to accuse someone of something. Due process requires them to prove those things.
All you do is keep repeating your own ignorance. Did you get trained that this was an effective strategy?
Nope. Not for illegals. Federal law, as upheld by the SCOTUS for decades, allows for a hearing in an administrative court. Period. Not a trial in federal court.
That is the process for which they are due. Case closed.
The retard leftists keep claiming deportation is a criminal matter when it is civil. They can't even admit to the fundamental facts.
The thing is, they usually admit to being here illegally, in front of an administrative judge, so your point is still invalid.
That isn't what due process is at all.
MAGA trolls don't care about any part of the Constitution except the Second Amendment.
Charlie. Take a deep breath. Leanr what due process actually means. When you do a few years from now, come back and apologize for being so retarded.
Sad.
We’ve posted the fucking law, you dumb cunt, at this point, we should all just mute you, Sarc, Nelson, Peod Jeffy, etc.. all you do is scream ‘nuh uh’ even when you’re given the actual fucking law.
I can’t wait for you democrats to be eliminated once and for all. It can’t happen a moment too soon.
Yes, the federal government hunted across America and just happened across a Venezuelan makeup artist with two crown tattoos and declared him a gang member. That makes perfect sense. After all, they were going door to door in my town demanding to see everyone's tattoos.
And Garcia certainly got no due process in his multiple immigration court hearings. Due process means they have to be tried perpetually until a court finally demands they be allowed to remain in country forever, at which point the government is no longer allowed to provide any further due process.
Interesting that Reason is still whining about the Maryland Father. He's about to get a whole lot of due process good and hard.
It will be funny if he gets a life sentence.
Yup. They will process his ass, and he'll get the prison sentence he's due. If that's what Billy means by "due process", then I'm on board.
Same.
It will be fun to see how Liz threads the needle tomorrow.
The morning links are going to be a bumpy ride. I’m looking forward to it.
I am pissed that we have to pay for this crap.
All part of the extreme lefts attempt to fundamentally transform America by collapsing it from the inside. One tragedy of the Freedom of Speech is how Bill Ayers was able to push his Prairie Fire through the ranks of the DNC and especially with Obama.
I suggest a reparations program, where democrats are stripped of their assets to compensate Americans for the suffering democratkind has caused us.
Even if it means seizing Sarc’s piss and puke soaked refrigerator box.
What a goddamn hypocrite you are Billy.
If KMW was a real editor, she would never have allowed such incoherent shit to be published. And would have fired Binion on the spot for submitting it.
KMW is the Koch Industries propaganda officer and nothing else.
You spelled "imbecilic pile of TDS addled lying shit" incorrectly.
Damned autocorrect!
It is almost as if Billy doesn't understand that this is what most nations on the planet do with illegal aliens who break laws in their respective nations.
Also, illegally entering a nation is quite often a crime in most countries.
The reason we are better than most nations on the planet is that we don’t allow the government to just say whatever it wants without being challenged. We also don’t allow the government to ignore the results of due process. That’s following the rule of law. That’s the opposite of authoritarian. That’s who we are.
“That’s who we are” Ok, commie shithead.
Actually, "we" allow the government to say and do pretty much whatever it wants every time the is a Democrat in office. SEE:
-The federal government weaponizing the IRS and FBI to target disfavored groups.
-State and local education boards secretly ramming communist, anti-family, anti-white, anti-American, pro-queer, sexually explicit propaganda into your public schools while employing their union and media lapdogs to tell you it isn't happening and that Republicans just hate black and gay people and want to ban books.
-State and local governments allowing their cities to burn (mostly peacefully) while threatening anyone who dares defend themselves with an instant guilty verdict or mob justice.
-Governments at every level shuttering your schools and businesses, arresting you for walking on the beach, banning you from speaking publicly if you have a basic understanding of science and probability, and taking away all of your basic rights unless you take an unnecessary, experimental jab. Twice.
In those cases, Nelson, "we" absolutely allow the government to do whatever it wants. And if you uppity freedom types try to do or say anything about it, you better believe "we" will ban your access to share you thoughts publicly, attempt to end your career, and dox you in hopes that one of our army of zealots hunts you down.
Yup, (D)ifferent.
Just shouting ‘due process!’ Isn’t an argument, dummy.
You know that most of these people (currently at least) have been in front of someone before, been shown to not be citizens, and have had deportation orders issued, right?
Yes a country of laws and when you enter illegally you entered breaking a law and are allowed within one year to apply for asylum. Anyone who stays longer than that year without applying has forfeited their due process. Read the laws posted in this comments section throughout. It's very plain and simple to understand as far as laws go.
Illegal entry is a crime in the US. In most cases it is a misdemeanor. But it is almost never prosecuted. If you haven't been convicted, you aren't a criminal.
Trump has been convicted of 34 felonies, and the MAGA trolls who have lost their mind about persons who haven't even been charged with a single misdemeanor are hypocrites when they support Trump.
It is also a civil matter, whose resolution is deportation dumdum.
Sad.
34 FELONIES!
Want to tell us what the crimes were, how the laws were at least stretched, and what the judge did that was at best shady?
I love that documents that weren't even submitted to the state until AFTER the 2016 election were made to influence the 2016 election.
But, well, we've seen that James has a major projection issue. She SIGNED her fraudulent docs and they were undeniably fraudulent.
LMAO, according to the laws you have one year to apply for asylum. You are otherwise illegally in the country.
You must be paid by a Soros. Do you stand in submission when in the room getting your picture taken with Alex? Maybe you are Tim Walz but if not you sure regurgitate the open borders bullshit that Soros is known to pay people for.
Interesting display of ignorance given the plethora of AI assisted search engines out there. Or maybe the AI promotes the ignorance? Regardless it’s still ignorance and inexcusable. Illegal Aliens have zero due process right to remain in this country. That’s why there are summary removal procedures provided under federal law. That’s a process that doesn’t involve an immigration judge. Bill Clinton used it. Literally a million times. Stop with this nonsense misinformation about due process for illegal aliens. Biden and his cohorts flooded the country with double digit millions of illegals, including deranged violent criminals. But all these illegals share something in common. None were vetted in any serious way. It is absurd to suggest that some new ill defined version of “due process” would require millions of hearings before removing the illegals . The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
Notwithstanding this I expect more disinformation to be published daily. And more Act Blue supported “mostly peaceful” protests on the streets likely funded by government grant supported democrat NGOs (which would likely win a stay order from a democrat federal judge if their government monies were halted).
“ Illegal Aliens have zero due process right to remain in this country.”
Wrong.
“ That’s why there are summary removal procedures provided under federal law.”
And they can be challenged. That’s what due process is.
“ Biden and his cohorts flooded the country with double digit millions of illegals”
There are barely double-digit illegals total, so this is as true as everything else you posted: not at all.
“ It is absurd to suggest that some new ill defined version of “due process” would require millions of hearings before removing the illegals .”
And yet, that’s exactly what is required. So not absurd at all, rather completely reasonable.
“ The Constitution is not a suicide pact.”
No, but it is the unchallenged basis of our legal process. Until the Fifth Amendment is repealed, due process is a thing for anyone the government accuses of anything.
You assert a conception of due process that has never been recognized in the law, either statutorily or in precedent. And, as noted, would result in a process practically impossible to manage. Million of hearings would extend over who knows how many years but, at the very least, likely would extend far past the present administration. Kind of defeats the notion of summary removal, doesn’t it sport? Illegal aliens have no due process right to remain in this country.
As for the number of illegals, there are estimates of 12.4 million illegals in this country in 2023, a lowball estimate based on census data that does not even include all the illegals Biden let in during his last year. The real number is likely much higher but double digit millions covers it.
You assert a conception of due process that has never been recognized in the law, either statutorily or in precedent.
This is a trick that Chemjeff uses a lot here too. Making up arbitrary rules and technicalities that never existed, and then insisting only by fulfilling these imaginary requirements are you following the constitution.
Like his ‘immigration isn’t naturalization’ sophistry? Yeah, pretty much everything that Fatfuck writes is pure democrat bullshit.
But Nelson feelz it really hard, and that supersedes actual law, right?
And his progressive friends know exactly how demanding extended legal process can achieve their goals, whether deporting illegal aliens or preventing construction, drilling, etc.
Apparently you never read anything I write about immigration, zoning, capitalism, nuclear power, or my disdain for NIMBY obstructionism.
There is a difference between supporting due process and opposing deportation. Deportation after due process is good. Deportation without due process is bad.
If they really are illegal immigrants, it isn’t hard to prove. Why would that be a bad thing to require?
“ You assert a conception of due process that has never been recognized in the law, either statutorily or in precedent.”
Really? What, pray tell, do immigration judges do all day? Twiddle their thumbs?
“ And, as noted, would result in a process practically impossible to manage.”
That is, in fact, a huge problem. But the solution isn’t to just stop giving due process.
Personally, I think the best way to eliminate 99% of the people applying for asylum inside the United States is to make embassies the places where asylum cases are filed and adjudicated (possibly remotely by judges in the US). The more incentives we can remove to illegal entry, the easier it will be to remove those who are here illegally.
“ As for the number of illegals, there are estimates of 12.4 million illegals in this country in 2023,”
The estimates by those without an agenda run from 10 million to 15 million, total. I can see 12.5 being a reasonable total. But that’s not a lowball or an “except for Biden” number. Remember, the only President who deported more illegals in a term than Biden was Obama. Even Trump lagged behind, probably because he tried to do big showy things instead of just quietly plodding along and getting the job done.
The real number is almost certainly about 12.5 total, give or take a few hundred thousand. That is a shitload, but the only way to get it done is to put your shoulder to the boulder and start pushing. Waving away important American ideals like due process isn’t.
The more incentives we can remove to illegal entry, the easier it will be to remove those who are here illegally.
Done. Illegal crossings are down 95% already.
Also not electing vegetables whose admin allowed 8 figures of illegals in over 4 years is helpful.
Lol. Nelson screams wrong and then goes on to be wrong the rest of his post.
Nelson, have you noticed you never post citations yet choose to ignore those of us who do?
He’s just a democrat.
Since your citation supported my position, as it requires a determination of illegal immigration, not just an accusation.
So I really don’t have to do much, since every time you post a link it’s either some ZeroHedge partisan nonsense or it supports my position.
But if you require a citation, here is the Fofth Amendment:
“ No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation”
Being here illegally is civil, not criminal. I fail to see the relevance in your post.
Now you will even deny the amount of illegals Biden allowed to enter and fail to acknowledge the 10's of millions already in country?
Correct. There are roughly 10-15 million, total. There never have been, nor will there ever be, tens of millions.
Remember, Biden deported more in his one term than Trump did.
You can’t stop lying, can you?
Remember, Biden deported more in his one term than Trump did.
All without “due process “.
"Illegal Aliens have zero due process right to remain in this country."
Wrong.
I didn't bother to read the rest of your comment because you that sentence alone shows you are an ignoramus.
Sad.
It's like ever democray here thinks they can win an argument by yelling their ignorant takes enough times.
where was due process when the far left Democrat cult let all the invaders run over the border?
They aren't invaders, and they all were arrested. Most applied for asylum which instantly made them legal. Trump broke the law when he stopped accepting asylum applications at ports of entry, which encouraged illegal entry. And of course Trump himself is a 34x convicted felon.
Sad.
They are invaders. Waving a foreign flag while committing violence is the definition of enemy combatant.
Billy, what's it like waking g up every morning knowing that if you committed suicide the world would be a better place?
Animals that came illegally committed a crime.
The illegals that invade this country and while waving the flag of their home country are invaders and should be treated as such.
Amd good job defending the gang member. He was ordered to leave multiple times.
Poor billy.
The (hint, hint) *US* Constitution doesn't expand over to El Salvador. So the only US "due process" required is providing that the subject is not a US Citizen and is by-law required to be removed???
Reason is trying to globalize US "due process" by pretending what happens in El Salvador should be determined by the US Constitution (i.e. "due process"). That's not how it works.
“ So the only US “due process” required is providing that the subject is not a US Citizen and is by-law required to be removed???”
Correct. And the decisions rendered in those hearings have to be honored by the government. That isn’t optional.
A hearing isn’t required.
Hearings ain't required. The dates of a visa are written at the start of the visa. Courts not needed.
But what if the person who applied for the visa was a complete idiot and forgot they are an American citizen?
Then we probably don’t want that person around anyway.
I agree. They should have asked El Salvador to release him back in to our custody and then air dropped him in Haiti.
Dressed as a duck?
It's funny team blue only cares about due process when it comes to illegal aliens but never when it involves the second amendment. Brian Malinowski, Vicki Weaver and Sammy Weaver got no due process before being murdered by ATF agents. Every single red flag law victim has never seen due process before having their property stolen by the government and a good number never will as in many states the accuser is allowed to remain anonymous. Yeah, there aren't many in government who give absolutely zero f's about due process. It's only something to use as a talking point against the other team and not something to actually uphold.
Correct. Billy the fag only care about due process for Marxist illegals. He hates the US and it's people
To him America is just an interchangeable economic zone.
He doesn’t like it when real Americans fight back.
He's a "citizen of the world"!
Isn’t Somalia part of the world? Why don’t these people ever want to live there?
No food (trucks)?
Nope. Just rape gangs.
They’ll love that too though.
Indeed. He was 100% down with the way the J6 defendants were treated. I guess illegals are more equal than citizens who engage in anti democrat wrongthink.
You are no reverend. You want to deport people fleeing Marxist tyrants in Venezuela and Nicaragua. You should go there and see how bad things there. Except that Maduro or Ortega will probably jail you or shoot you the way they do other Christians.
You want the US to become Marxist tyrants. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sad.
You are the same thing as Maduro and Ortega. You must be cleansed from America. Your kind has no place here.
Marxist tyrants? Go ask your buddies in Hollywood and the NYT.
SSDD.
Illegal immigrant found in car full of other illegal immigrants. – You can’t deport him! (Due process is oppression.)
President’s drug-addict son lies on 4473 form, illegally disposes of firearm, all while acting as a foreign agent. – You can’t try him! (Due process is oppression.)
Alec Baldwin shoots someone in the face and the person behind them in the chest. – He’s innocent, there shouldn’t even be a trial! (Due process is oppression.)
…
Kyle Rittenhouse is on video putting out dumpster fires when he’s assaulted, flees, and defends himself from pursuers. – It’s not self-defense, it’s murder! Try him! Due process!
Jordan Neely repeatedly threatens people on the subway until he’s subdued by Daniel Penny which results in his death. – It’s not self-defense, it’s manslaughter! Try him! Due process!
E. Jean Caroll, Alvin Bragg, Stacey Abrams all openly in front of everyone fabricate completely nonsensical and otherwise non-actionable charges against Trump. – He’s a felon! Try him! Convict him! Due process!
They don’t want due process. They don’t have any idea what it means. If they did, they’d understand the reciprocity involved. They would’ve understood it before. But they don’t. They want the government to punish their enemies and favor people they believe to be their allies. They may as well be saying “May the will of Allah be done!”
It’s time to cleanse America of the Democrat scourge. Start canceling them. Don’t allow the to be a part of or do business with government. Aggressively prosecute them at every opportunity. Cut off all federal funds to ‘sanctuary cities ‘ and ‘sanctuary states’. Do everything possible to destroy them. And if they become more violent in return, then give the, the street fight they’ve been begging for, and wipe the off the face of the earth.
Playtime is over. It’s time for the Marxist democrats to go.
Billy is very selective in regard to "due process" as is Reason in general. Due process for illegals is catch and release for a future court date that they'll never show up for. Defacto open borders.
Try that at a border control booth. No passport or legal reason to be here they just turn you around. That's the process.
Billy also has no sympathy for those who were illegally in the US Capitol on J6 the vast majority just trespassing. These folks get SWAT raided thrown in jail without bail and get years of jail time.
Billy and Reason support this because they politically disagree with the J6ers.
So yea Billy is really not an across-the-board due process guy.
I was told it’s acceptable due process to shoot people in the face who are trespassing on public property.
Here's a steaming pile of lefty shit who agrees (and who should fuck off and die):
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
It is! The JeffSarc said so!
Yup, endless due process for my magical unicorn illegals, but no due process for their entry, and no due process for any disfavored group. Sorry, Billy, but that's over. You open border fucking idiots went so far that now even half of Democrats are in favor of mass deportations. And if they end up snagging an actual illegal Maryland Father, instead of the walking piece of shit you tried to sell to us as that, well, I really don't care anymore. If it's this or 10 million more illegals every year or two, I choose this.
I don't remember a single Reason editor ever expressing any concern for the due process rights of J6 protesters or the murder of Ashli Babbitt. I do seem to remember that Sullum was outraged when trump pardoned trespassers and paraders (can't say for sure because I don't read his rants). No worries when credit card records and cellphone locations were used to justify SWAT raids nationwide for misdemeanor offenses. No worries about sentencing enhancements using novel interpretations of statute. If the subject is due process Reason has zero credibility. But they don't really give a shit. The only thing they care about is open borders at any cost.
“ I don’t remember a single Reason editor ever expressing any concern for the due process rights of J6 protesters or the murder of Ashli Babbitt.”
Probably because all of the J6 rioters did get due process and Ashli Babbitt was trying to breach a position protected by armed defenders. She got exactly what she deserved. If she didn’t want to get shot, she shouldn’t have been in a mob attacking an armed position.
Imagine 20 guys who get off a plane from London to NYC, landing at JFK. They linger around the US Customs gates as a group, then, as one, they make a break for it. They jump the lines, surge through the gates, and sprint toward the terminal and the airport exits.
They'll be lucky to not be shot.
Mentally, I don't see any difference between them and 20 guys who wade across the Rio Grande, climb the fence, and dash into the desert.
Lady Justice predates the founding, but her likeness—blindfolded, holding scales and a sword
Popular but not true. Lady Justice is not blindfolded in the canonical statue of her, above the Old Bailey:
Some minimal due process must be involved to determine that someone is an illegal immigrant in the first place. A mere regime say-so does not suffice.
The second issue, about deportation to CECOT, is easily resolved. The Executive has no authority to send someone there and deportees have the right not to be sent there.
If they're guilty of crimes in the :US, try them and convict them here.
Of course, these arguments are countered by "But this is what Dear Leader wishes, and so it is the law",
"Of course, these arguments are countered by “But this is what Dear Leader wishes, and so it is the law”,"
TDS-addled lying piles of shit lie about what the rest of us say or believe. TDS-addled lying piles of shit should fuck off and die.
We have no control over other countries and where they hold illegals. We do have the legal right to deport to third countries when an illegals primary country refuses repatriation.
Try again ignorant shrike.
Some minimal due process must be involved to determine that someone is an illegal immigrant in the first place. A mere regime say-so does not suffice.
This is, aside from bad-faith and dishonesty, nonsensical.
Constitutionally-appointed administrative immigration judges make the determination at hearings, Trump didn't fill out a list.
Your insinuation otherwise is a deliberate lie.
The second issue, about deportation to CECOT, is easily resolved.
Hondurans are deported back to Honduras. That's the law. If gang bangers who fled the country are put in prison by the Honduran government while awaiting trial, that's their business.
Where you are lying here is by parroting the Democratic Party insinuation that the Hondurans are imprisoning these people at the behest of the US government.
You're so fanatically dishonest, politruk.
“ Constitutionally-appointed administrative immigration judges make the determination at hearings”
And can that determination be appealed? Up to the Supreme Court, if necessary?
The answer is yes to both. So it isn’t just an Executive Branch circle jerk.
KAR’s pretending that ‘due process’ means infinite do-overs until you win or make it to the Supreme Court.
That’s not how it works, conman. Most decisions are final unless there’s a serious legal flaw—which is why the Supreme Court isn’t swamped with jaywalkers and petty thieves.
Current law suffices just fine. If you don’t like it, fuck off back to your British hellscape. Where Marxist morons like you have allowed tens of millions of foreigners to destroy your country,
This is America, where pinkos like you are neither neither, or wmated.
Funny how Trump defenders casually switch between praising Trump for refusing to execute laws they feel are unconstitutional (to hurt people they hate) while praising him for zealously abusing laws that are blatantly unconstitutional (to hurt people they hate).
No principles. Just hate. Hate for Democrats. Hate for government employees. Hate for foreigners. Hate for immigrants. Hate, hate, hate.
So sad.
TDS-addled lying piles of steaming shit lie about what the rest of us say or believe. TDS-addled lying piles of shit should fuck off and die.
Poor, pour sarc.
Leftists always project.
First they project. Then they apply double standards. Otherwise they would be guilty doing the same things they project onto the opposition.
Here’s something you will never say: Something that was bad when Democrats did it is also bad when Trump does it. You can’t say that because that would be principled.
Here is something you never did, said something was bad when a Democrat was doing that thing.
Here is something you also will never do. Blame a Democrat on an article about their bad acts and I stead deflect to Trump.
Youre fooling nobody but yourself.
Sad that your universe is only Trump and Democrats, and that's how you judge people and principles.
I knew you couldn’t say it
Weird that when the democrats were doing it, you approved. Please drink yourself to death.
What laws is Trump refusing to execute dumdum?
None, because the attention whore is lying.
He made that up because he’s an angry, drunken baby. Probably jealous he’s not in LA. Where he can riot with hundreds of his fellow travelers to protect him.
The odd part is sarc is in here daily demanding Trump not execute actual laws for illegal immigration.
They give zero shits about ‘due process’ or the constitution. They want open borders and all the other Marxist horrors from the democrat agenda.
Considering how many laws Congress has passed that are blatantly unconstitutional, any libertarian would do the same (refuse to enforce).
Immigration enforcement would depend on the flavor of libertarian that magically got elected.
I’m not talking about immigration law per se. I mean the executive writing rules with the power of law, adjudicating with administrative courts (or not), and then meting out punishment. All within the executive branch. Executive being legislator and judge also. If that doesn’t violate everything the founders rebelled against then nothing does.
And on top of that king Trump is creating taxes without the representative body that was given that power.
The fact that people are cheering this is shameful. Just fucking shameful. And blatantly hypocritical.
SCOTUS says you can fuck off on everything you just puked out.
Seethe harder loser.
Haha. Just as I said above.
Sarc is too retarded and willingly ignorant to read the actual laws. Lol.
Looks like due process incoming to LA.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2025/06/trump-calls-in-national-guard-to-quell-anti-ice-violence-in-ca-as-dem-leaders-dither/
And,
Los Angeles Braces For Another Day Of Chaos As Newsom Pits Marxist Color Revolution Against Trump Admin
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/marxist-linked-unrest-worsens-los-angeles-amid-coordinated-color-revolution
The situation over the last two days has quickly deteriorated into looting, arson—including the burning of vehicles—and direct assaults on law enforcement personnel. Indicators suggest a high degree of premeditation and online mobilization in what appears to be an attempt by Democratic Party-aligned actors to ignite a Mexican version of the Black Lives Matter riots, echoing the chaos seen during the 2020 "Summer of Love" color revolution.
And you're paying for it all.
https://x.com/LauraPowellEsq/status/1931526696160968790?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1931526696160968790%7Ctwgr%5Eeda7e26815f956e3b7d66f37b1e32ab6bdece84a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fpolitical%2Fmarxist-linked-unrest-worsens-los-angeles-amid-coordinated-color-revolution
To sum up how this works: Your tax dollars fund an organization that organizes efforts to directly interfere with the federal government’s lawful exercise of authority. Then, through its lobbying arm, that organization helps get Democrats elected to office, who then repay the favor by ensuring increased funding.
This is the nonprofit industrial complex at work.
Seems the local boss of the SEIU was arrested yesterday for interfering with LEOs.
Got a news alert late yesterday; the LA Times headlined : 'Does Trump know who she is?!'. Seems a local union poobah is above the law, according to the LAT.
Media is already claiming it is mostly peaceful, not showing any of the violence on news casts.
I don’t think anyone buys their bullshit anymore.
You might want to see how many people pay for echo chamber subscriptions.
Outside of the far left kooks, how many people really trust democrat corporate media? They’re so shrill and dishonest now, that even some democrats are abandoning them.
I’ve been saying for months now that trump should put California under martial law. Looks like we’re inching closer to that. With democrats moving towards starting a civil war.
I’m really enjoying the festivities.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1931534338916561182
A deranged leftist tried to block an ICE vehicle carrying criminal aliens and got run over after refusing to move.
Too bad, so sad.
Previous Libertarian presidential candidate celebrates violation of the NAP for open borders:
“California, this should be the national mood.Keep it up.”
https://x.com/ChaseForLiberty/status/1931511264481522035
We sure dodged a bullet with Chase. He was a shoo in until it leaked that he's gay.
What? Chase is gay?
Woah! Do Sarc and Jeff know?
Yes, Jeff told us repeatedly that Chase is a "fag".
Meh, not really. It’s why he lost.
But one of many reasons.
But the ONLY reason that mattered.
'That the prisoners sent to CECOT were not citizens is irrelevant.'
Fuck you, Reason. And all other globalist assholes.
Why not come out and say that you despise the concept, and existence, of nations and borders? And admit that you actively seek to dissolve those, or gain some special status that allows you to bypass them.
Here's the thing. As long as we have a nation, with a border, we can define legal requirements for non-citizens differently, including any inherent right to be within the borders--and the process for removal for those here illegally.
Also, fuck Reason and others who know that demanding "due" process, and moving any related goalposts, is a proven tactic for infinite delays in action--and thus no process at all.
Exactly. That is the goal. It's a cynical strategy dressed up in good old American due process.
Also it does real damage to people's opinion of actual due process requirements.
If an ignorant fool thinks that 'due process' isn't being followed with illegal immigrants, and their mistaken notion of what due process is should apply, then people are going to start questioning if it's a great idea for due process to exist at all. This is because most people have no idea what any of this means.
Which, of course, plays right into their hands.
Sadly, at some point these morons are the first against the wall but somehow being executed by the state they brought into existence always results in something like 'if only Comrade Stalin knew'. They never realize that they are the useful idiots until it's far too late, and the true believers die believing a mistake was made when it's entirely intentional.
The only useful idiots I see are the Trump defenders who cheer when Trump deprives people of due process while enacting taxes by decree.
You still don't know what due process means despite multiple citations even in this thread.
Youre an evil leftist who lies to push politics.
Holy fuck. Are you ramping up your PM drunk state?
I'm amazed when he can still see his keyboard on a Sunday afternoon.
Reason doesn’t believe in the concept of citizenship. They are part of the enemy within now.
Those accused of wrongdoing have the right to challenge the evidence against them before the government takes away their liberty.
Not giving is taking, eh? This argument isn't any less retarded than the last time Tony, chemjeff, sarc, mtrueman, etc. made it.
Especially in the context of *illegal* immigration and Reason's obvious and continued lies about crime, welfare spending/consumption, and education/entrepreneurship.
I had no idea that being deported home is 'taking away liberty'. That's quite a stretch if ever I've heard one.
If an illegal immigrant commits a crime they can be deported and back in the country within a week. If I commit a crime I'll spend years in prison.
One wonders how much in incarceration costs 'Reason' is willing to put up with if suddenly the punishment for illegal immigration was a prison sentence here in the United States. I bet they'd fall over themselves to point out that's not what they meant, and be strangely silent when anyone asked them what they did actually mean.
One wonders how MAGA trolls are so enthusiastic about get out of jail free cards for criminals who get deported. Few ever serve prison time in their home countries, and many find it quite easy to get back into the US.
One also wonders how MAGA trolls can be so hypocritical as to be incendiary about misdemeanor illegal entry but so enthusiastic about the 34x convicted felon in the White House.
Sad.
Lol. Pathetic commie fuck.
Is that what MSNBC told you to say, retard?
We'd need prisons that would make CECOT look like a daycare center.
We at the EIB Network heard this was a great MAGA chat room.
Not really. Plenty of guys like you are here to fuck it up.
Came in pre greyed. Probably shrike.
Its focus on conservative’s penis is a tell.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Slimy pile of lying lefty shit is slimy pile of lying lefty shit.
Potatoe Pahtatoh
I though you were from the ENB network.
How many days did you spend working on your sock name?
All rights are property rights.
We have rights because we own things. Our bodies. Our possessions. Our investments.
Every right there is can be expressed in terms of something belonging to someone.
Where do property rights come from?
We made them up.
A lot of people will go through absurd mental gymnastics to avoid admitting this, usually invoking religion or some humanistic philosophy or some social contract that is not actually defined or written down anywhere.
But it's okay to admit we made them up. Lots of made-up things are real and useful. Like mathematics, the stock market, and America.
And many of those made-up things are not only useful, but necessary.
Property rights are so necessary that the "we" who made them up isn't "Americans", or "Westerners".
It isn't even "humans".
It's living organisms. Everything with a nervous system has a notion of property rights, either explicitly or contained within its DNA.
Don't agree with me?
Hit a beehive with a stick.
And you will discover that bees have a robust notion of property rights.
But why? Why are property rights so fundamental that they were developed before language, the wheel, or even the prefrontal cortex?
Because property rights are really investment rights.
Living organisms survive by investing effort. They invest effort in preserving themselves. They invest effort in inanimate things they take from the environment, to convert them into something useful.
If an organism cannot retain control of what it invests in, it cannot thrive, or even survive at all.
So every organism with a survival instinct will commit violence to keep what it has invested in, if it is able.
That's what violence is for.
A border, a boundary, is the line separating an investment from the rest of the universe.
Nations have borders for the same reason animals have skin... to keep the inside in, and the outside out. To defend that which has been gathered, with great effort, from other organisms that wish to take it.
Nations have borders because they are investments.
They are property.
And if you think property cannot be held collectively, by a tribe or other group of people who have invested in it together, then what are you currently reading this on?
Also, go hit a beehive with a stick.
America is an investment. All the previous generations of Americas who worked to build it did so not just for a salary, but with the understanding that they were building a home for their children.
If they had not been promised this, they would not have built here.
To insist to those children, and to their children in turn, that they "do not own America" or that "America is an idea", is a malevolent deception. It is a lie told for the purpose of conquest.
And to submit to that lie is not liberty.
It is treason.
https://x.com/Devon_Eriksen_/status/1931718821150150781
A great response:
perhaps a useful extension of this idea:
like mathematics, you cannot just "make up" any rights and have the system they encode work.
you cannot just say "triangles and squares enclose the same number of degrees of angle" and expect a house to stay up.
similarly, you cannot just say "a universal right not to be offended" exists and expect a society to stay up.
in a sense very similar to mathematics, rights cannot quite be "made up" but rather "discovered."
you have to try structures and see what works.
property rights work and lead to human flourishing.
removing them or failing to protect them leads to calamity, poverty, and violence.
this is why positive law structures (see what works, make that the law) have been such a sound basis for social structure whereas made up fancies of alleged rights and principles of human relationships (like marxism or any collectivist ideology) always end in famine at the point of a gun.
we're in the process of once more "discovering" that a libertarian system needs to defend borders from low trust incursion and predation upon high trust systems and welfare states.
civilizations decline by forgetting the obvious things. they rise by remembering them.
https://x.com/boriquagato/status/1931725298392805464
This the opposite of Jeff who believes math is a societal construct that can redefine 2+2=5
I’m surprised Fatfuck hasn’t slithered in like Jabba to spew his open borders seepage at us.
"they “do not own America”"
You have no ownership rights in America unless you are a direct descendant of indigenous people. Your ancestors probably came here illegally and should have been deported or killed by the indigenous.
Unless you come from sub-Saharan Africa, you aren’t indigenous to anywhere. Also, go fuck yourself.
It’s starting to look like that theory has some holes in it too.
Color me not very surprised.
Look at the cultural marxist retard
Chuck is starting to lose his cool. Maybe a few more mean statements and he will jump.
Cultural Marxist is verbatim a euphemism for “Jew” in Mein Kampf. You should know that. I’m sure you do.
My ancestors have been here for around three centuries now, and we won. This is MY country you pinko subversive.
Feel free to GTFO before shit gets real fucking bad for you.
Sad.
You have no ownership rights in America unless you are a direct descendant of indigenous people.
Fuck You Chuck.
I am a direct descendent of indigenous people. You don't get to speak for me.
"You have no ownership rights in America unless you are a direct descendant of indigenous people."
And the lying pile of slimy lefty shit has no method of determining who that might be.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
What a fucking stupid thing to say.
Then a lot of people are due restitution for violations of disclosure requirements on this investment.
Many people, including those in past generations of immigrants, invested in the US because of its liberal immigration policies. These are policies that led to the acceptance and integration of diverse cultures, each offering new perspectives, and each made up of the heartiest and most resourceful stock, leading to the US being the most innovative and powerful country in history.
But sure, these days it means more melanin than you were accustomed to in your teen suburbia.
I am curious, on that point. Do Scandinavian immigrants get turned away as enthusiastically as other would-be investors? Or do they bring a little something something to the table?
"The U.S. is a nation of symbols: the bald eagle, the Statue of Liberty, baseball, apple pie".
In the opening sentence, the author has it wrong: The U.S. is a nation of laws, not symbols. Baseball and apple pie, while enjoyed by many people (me included), have nothing to do with the legal framework that makes the U.S. the U.S.
The question ignored by the author and some of the commenters: are illegal immigrants protected by the constitution? The answer is assumed to be yes. But what does the body of law say? That is the only answer that matters and should have been addressed by the author.
But it would be bad for his feelz!
The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, as well as SCOTUS precedent, says yes.
Note that every part of the Bill of Rights refers to people, not citizens. All rights, enumerated and unenumerated, are held by all people equally, regardless of citizenship.
It doesnt matter if he's a gang member or not. He is here illegally, and they targeted him because they're pretty sure he's a criminal and a gang member. But they deported him for being illegal, not for being in a gang. Hope this clears things up.
They will continue to gloss over the fact that he admitted he was here illegally and was ordered deported.
If we’re talking about the same “he” then a little due process would have prevented him from being deported to the El Salvador torture prison in defiance of a court order.
That’s why due process is important.
We don’t have free speech to protect speech we like, and we don’t have due process to protect people we like.
“ They will continue to gloss over the fact that he admitted he was here illegally and was ordered deported.”
In Garcia’s case, you are correct. And the problem with Garcia wasn’t that he was deported. It was that he was deported somewhere that the government was expressly forbidden to deport him to.
The thing about due process (which Garcia received) is that the government doesn’t get to accept only the parts of the ruling that they like. They have to accept the “don’t send him to El Salvador” part as well.
He is about to get tried in a different court. If he loses, they can deport him … anywhere except El Salvador. Exactly like every day since 2019, when he lost his original hearing and an appeal.
Why Trump can’t just stop with the self-important nonsense and let the system do its work is beyond me. It’s the bloviating that is slowing down deportations. Do it like Obama did. He was, by far, the best at deporting illegals in history.
The problem with Trump and his defenders is that they feel he is above the rules.
Saw a humorous video that depicted history class, fifty years in the future. Trump ran for a third term, won, and became the first American Emperor. The next named generation were the doomers.
“It was that he was deported somewhere that the government was expressly forbidden to deport him to.”
By what authority?
Plyler v. Doe? The Dred Scott decision was also about who is a citizen. Should we bring that one back? The Supreme Court isn't always right, and it should be obvious that 'person' as used in the Constitution is shorthand for 'citizen of the U.S.' and not just any rando who shows up. It defies rationality that simply applying for asylum should give someone citizenship rights. It also defies rationality that the mere grant of asylum should give someone citizenship rights. Asylum is refuge, not the start of a paid-up shiny new life. Non-citizens are here on sufferance, and that's the end of it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
“ it should be obvious that ‘person’ as used in the Constitution is shorthand for ‘citizen of the U.S.’ and not just any rando who shows up”
Except that has been expressly and specifically rejected every time it has come in front of SCOTUS. It is well established, through the discussions at the time, the rulings since then, and the plain meaning of the words, that they meant all people, not just citizens.
You don’t believe it, but that and $5 will get you a Starbucks.
“ It defies rationality that simply applying for asylum should give someone citizenship rights.”
You’re right. That’s why it doesn’t.
This seems like a good time for the reminder that "i live in a shitty neighborhood" is not a reason for refugee status.
"I was in a gang and now the other gang wants to kill me because I killed one of theirs" also not a good reason.
The terrorist from Egypt who set people on fire last week in Boulder was applying for asylum with his family. Was is he a refugee from being in egypt which is a big US ally and has no civil war happening? Refugee status my ass.
Idiot. Egypt is one of the most oppressive countries in the world, complete with Secret Police and political prisons. It doesn't have a civil war because anyone thinking of starting one disappears.
Cool story fag. Got anything else for us?
Be careful, he’ll report you!
Sad.
They spy on parents and catholics?
You silly billy, Charlie hates actual Americans.
Idiot. Totally irrelevant to anyone but a lying pile of lefty shit.
Oh, you mean like Obama-Biden-(whoever controls those fucks) was working on?
If he doesnt like living there he can apply for citizenship like everyone else. He's not a refugee, he doesnt need "asylum". Egypt does not prevent their citizens from leaving.
Something Trump and his defenders dream about.
“ This seems like a good time for the reminder that “i live in a shitty neighborhood” is not a reason for refugee status.”
This I agree with 100%. The reasons for seeking asylum shouldn’t be as broad as they are and need to be reduced significantly. I believe that it should be limited to those persecuted by authorities, governments, or de-facto government groups like the cartels in Columbia. Having a local gang persecuting someone is a justification to move to a different city, not a different country.
“ The terrorist from Egypt who set people on fire last week in Boulder was applying for asylum with his family.”
So because one person seeking asylum was a violent bigot, every other asylum seeker is … what?
If you are an illegal alien, on what grounds are you defending yourself?
You are requiring the government to prove you are an illegal immigrant. That is the basis of our legal system, writ large: we don’t assume that what the government say is true. We require them to prove it.
I don’t care if it’s an immigration judge, a criminal court judge, or the Supreme Court. The government should ALWAYS be required to prove what they say is true. If you think the government should always be believed, you are part of the problem.
That's easy, what's your Social Security number.
I would like to point out that there is a vast distance between open-border advocates like Professor Somin and virulent racists like Steven Miller. Most of us live a long way away from either of those extremes.
Requiring the government to prove what they say is about as basic as it gets. You should always be skeptical of the government, regardless of whether they are doing things you like or not.
In fact, you should probably be more skeptical if they are doing things you like because you already have a rooting interest.
But never let the government go unquestioned, especially on such fundamental things as the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
What other countries do with the people we send back to them is none of our business.
Yes, but "Nelson" likes to lie an awful lot and pretend that the US is paying countries to imprison expelled illegals.
It's kind of his thing.
Flatly untrue. The US is party to international law prohibiting so-called refoulment, the deportation of anyone to any place where their life or freedom could be threatened.
US adherence to this longstanding norm of human rights is both formal, meaning required by treaties we’ve signed, and customary, meaning applying to all countries regardless of treaty, putting non-refoulment on the level of prohibitions against genocide.
And here you are defending a practice so long considered so bad that no country is allowed to do it.
Is it because you suck Trump cock just that hard or because you’re illiterate?
"virulent racists like Steven Miller"
What a retarded accusation.
Where have I heard a dishonest smear like that before?
Oh yeah:
"C.J. CIARAMELLA
Criminal Justice Reporter
Who do you plan to vote for this year? Joe Biden. The nationalists said the libertarian-conservative consensus is dead, and I take them at their word. Also, Stephen Miller is a white nationalist."
https://reason.com/2020/10/12/how-will-reason-staffers-vote-in-2020/
Did we just suss out someone's real identity?
>In April, Sen. Mike Lee (R–Utah) posted an image on X that encouraged travel to Canada. "We won't throw you into an El Salvadorian [sic] gulag without due process!" the image read. "[The U.S.] absolutely will," Lee responded.
Do they not understand that there is no right to due process basically anywhere in the world - especially Canada.
It is a privilege granted by their government and taken away by their government.
Due process only means you get your rights that are afforded to you. It does not guarantee you a hearing or a jury trial.
Until Trump, the notion that an illegal determined to be an illegal by the system had to be "tried" by a court to be deported was nonexistent. Obama deported a record number of people near the border without a single hearing. Indeed, Obama himself would have been puzzled by the idea that if someone was nabbed right at the border, he could not be bussed back to Mexico and instead had to be assigned a lawyer and await his trial on deportation.
If the government cannot expel an illegal without citizenship without trial, then they logically cannot expel me from one of their federal buildings without a trial. I can sneak into the DMV, set up camp, and they'd have to put up with up me until I'm assigned a lawyer and get my day in court to "prove" that I have a right to stay there.
Not one country does this. Name me just one country that provides a hearing and or a trial to EVERY SINGLE ILLEGAL foreign national before they can even try to attempt deportation. Tell me with a straight face that a nation could ever function this way, and that jurisdictional issues are no different than a government charging someone with a crime. Tell me, what trial did Elian Gonzalez get before federal agents raided his family?
Well, you’re supposed to be the freedom people. A cut above. Daydreaming about a world in which imaginary lines on a map do not determine your fate. It’s the only way you can logically sing the virtues of a free market, after all. “Free” is half the words. ‘Member freedom? ‘Member when the world used to have less of it than you would prefer? It was only the last time a member of another political party was in charge. Surely you don’t have amnesia.
But we need not debate the theory of a future utopia with due process. There are facts. The constitution, as affirmed even by ratfucking conservative toads on the Supreme Court, confers a right to due process even to immigrants.
The problem thus is not just that the Trump administration is violating a libertarian conception of human freedom, it’s violating the constitution on its easily legible face.
Immigration law always has played fast and loose with the constitution. That’s probably why you’re so confused. Trump is not so much playing fast and loose but using it to wipe his shit then flushing it down his golden shitter.
This publication has also engaged in astonishing deception and distortion on some of the high profile deportation cases
Abrego Garcia was found to be a gang member by the courts. His asylum claim was denied, meaning the judge never bought his claim that he would be killed by gangs if he were to be returned to ES.
Nevertheless, he was granted a reprieve of deportation to ES, pending some result of the anti torture bill. Meaning a criminal found fit to be deported back could not be deported back…. to his own country. And America with a criminal living in a general population until some other country apparently agreed to take him in.
Along the way, he assaulted his wife. Nothing. He was found with a bunch of people in his car that all gave his address. The car belonged to a man already convicted of human trafficking. Nothing. The cop let him go after the Biden admin urged no action. The judge didn’t immediately rescind the protection and order his deportation.
Are you getting the picture? The Maryland Man was a victim “denied his due process” only in the most academic sense. He was given special treatment and protection by an agenda driven court. A human trafficker, wife beater, and gang member was allowed to stay in the country for 16 years on nothing more than political agenda. Trump accidentally “violated” a travesty of justice and a two tier system, and the Maryland Man fan club frame it as if he was a Jew sent back to Nazi Germany.
Again – the guy was driving a car that was owned by a human trafficker. Why didn’t the government charge him? What happens if this guy obtained a gun and wasted 50 people? “Well HAHA sorry guys, looks like the judges and FBI missed one again”
Just about every single illegal defended by Reason in recent high profile cases is a despicable bigot or a criminal. Reason incredibly characterized a Muslim fanatic who boasted about killing Jews at a gun shop as a peace loving Buddhist. This isn’t about “even the worst people deserve process”. This is about you turning blind eye to evil just because you don’t want them deported. The due process violation only gives you ammunition. If Trump did everything by the book, you’d be whining about “but they didn’t commit serious crimes”
Why should illegals enjoy extra judicial favors any more than rich white people who can afford lawyers? Why does a libertarian support a two tier system?
Y'know, a decade ago I would have never said this. But I honestly think I'm getting to the point that when I hear someone say the words "due process" as they're clearly trying to weaponize it against Americans in favor of virulently anti-Americans, I'm just going to punch them in the face as hard as I can.
Now, if you know me and you know where I stand on most stuff, think about that. And then start considering the people who are a lot more off to the right than I am.
You're asking for it. If you corrupt the Courts, if you turn the Justice System against the American People - man, heed my warning, they are not going to take it much longer.
All due process requires is that the government prove its case before punishing you for crimes it claims you committed. You’re free to read the transcripts of court testimony if you believe any particular court to be so corrupted that it is subject neither to a check by a jury or an appeal.
Which court doesn’t permit constitutionally required due process? Name one. You seem to believe it, so surely you know what the fuck you’re talking about and aren’t just parroting Trump’s fascist horseshit.
Bonus 8th grade civics: the constitution permits you to hate America without being thrown in a cage or deported. It’s actually the first of the amendments!
And even if it were a crime to be anti-American, which it’s not and cannot be, surely you don’t think we should just take the government at its word on the matter.
Now pull the other one.
If you were talking about anyone other than violent, criminal, gangbanging, illegal aliens - one might take you seriously. But you're not. You're intentionally and specifically talking about violent, criminal, gangbanging, illegal aliens.
When you tell the good, honest, decent, law-abiding American citizen that the violent, criminal, gangbanging, illegal alien matters more to you than him - eventually he's just going to shoot the illegal in the face. And probably you too.
And it's not like you both won't have it coming.
You may be a violent, criminal gangbanger, but you don’t get thrown in a cage by the government for it until the government proves its claim in court.
You’d want it for yourself, wouldn’t you? Generally I find that people appreciate due process as not just a good idea, but actually the law. See: US constitution. You know? The very font of US law?
You don’t feel there’s a little whiff of irony in coming to a libertarian site and finding that only perhaps 1% of its readership understands or values the most basic concepts in enlightenment-era political liberty?
I find it mighty curious, at the least.
You may be a violent, criminal gangbanger,
Gee Tony, I notice you omitted something there. Care you share with the class why you did?
With scary tattoos?
Ooh, thanks for including that.
But no, I was referring to to part that you copy/pasted, but intentionally omitted a part of.
Why'd you do that?
Do I have a "right" to remain in a place I entered without permission? How much "process" am I "due" before I can be told to leave?
Trespassing is just a misdemeanor, if that’s the analogy you’d like to use. I’m all for levying fines to undocumented persons or whatever as prescribed by law. After they get their due process, as required by law.
I swear it’s like your brains are all congealed anew each time Trump takes another shit on the constitution. Rationalizing your poor political choices is how death camps get built, you know.
Due process, of course, kicks in the moment you interact with an agent of the government, not that anybody at a libertarian website would care about such things as government abuse of power.
You get a neutral hearing if you’re charged with a crime, yes, but the piggies also can’t shove you off property without explaining why, treating you as they would anyone else, and so forth.
Does the sheriff need a court order to tell me to leave a place I entered without permission?