Milton Friedman Disproved Trump's Argument for Tariffs Decades Ago
In a 1978 appearance at Utah State University, the Nobel Prize–winning economist provided the perfect retort to those who blindly argue we should "build in America."

Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick appeared before the House Appropriations Committee on Thursday, fielding questions about the current presidential administration's trade strategy.
Rep. Madeleine Dean (D–Penn.) pressed Lutnick about President Donald Trump's "chaotic tariff policy." She held up a banana, imports of which are currently taxed at 10 percent. "Walmart has already increased the cost of bananas by 8 percent," she noted.
"There is no uncertainty that if you build in America, and you produce your product in America, there will be no tariff," Lutnick said. "The concept of building in America and paying no tariffs is very, very clear."
"We cannot build bananas in America," Dean retorted.
Dean is not quite right: We can grow bananas in the U.S., just not very well or very cheaply. In 2023, the U.S. imported over 5 million metric tonnes of bananas, totaling over $2 billion, while only producing about 3,500 metric tonnes.
The reason is that bananas only grow in tropical and subtropical climates: While Hawaii and Florida produce some, the majority of the world's bananas come from Southeast Asia and Latin America.
While the U.S. could increase its production of bananas, we would be fools to do so: In all but a few locations, we would have to build greenhouses to simulate the tropical climates required. Even then, the trees would take longer to produce than they would in the tropics, and it could take years or even decades to reach the level of production necessary to replace the current system, in which more than one out of every five bananas imported comes to the U.S.
Why go through all that trouble when bananas are currently available year-round at the grocery store and cost around 60 cents per pound—less than the average price of a single egg?
Lutnick seemed to acknowledge as much earlier this year, telling CNBC that 10 percent tariffs would fall more heavily on "a product that we don't make here, like a mango."
In a meeting with business leaders, Lutnick "said there would be some exemptions on imports of products like mangoes that couldn't be domestically produced at the level needed to meet U.S. demand," The Wall Street Journal reported in April. "When Trump rolled out the tariff plan on Wednesday, there were no exemptions for mango imports."
Unfortunately, the banana argument reflects the same level of logic Lutnick and Trump apply to the entirety of global trade: Any product an American purchases that was manufactured somewhere else inherently represents some loss of American wealth or sovereignty.
Just a day before his interaction with Dean, Lutnick appeared before the Senate, where he told Sen. John Kennedy (R–La.) that even if Vietnam offered to lower its tariff rate to zero, if the U.S. did the same, "that would be the silliest thing we could do."
"There are certain products we want to reshore," Lutnick explained. "We don't want other people making them."
But if other countries can make the exact same products for less, why wouldn't we let them? Making those products domestically may shore up those specific industries, but consumers would bear the brunt of it through higher prices.
Incidentally, Nobel Prize–winning economist Milton Friedman explained the lack of logic behind Lutnick's argument nearly five decades ago.
"You could have a great employment in the city of Logan, Utah, of people growing bananas in hothouses," Friedman said in 1978 during a lecture at Utah State University. "If we had a high enough tariff on the import of bananas, it could become profitable to build hothouses and grow bananas in those hothouses. That would give employment. Would that be a sensible thing to do?"
Friedman was using the banana example as the "absurd" and "extreme" end of the argument for steel tariffs, which were in the news at the time and an audience member had asked about. "If that isn't sensible," Friedman argued, "then neither is it sensible to artificially restrict the import of steel." Trump doubled the tariffs on steel this week.
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Is there 60 years of data since Friedman argued for unilateral trade (not actual free trade)?
Or do we just continue to ignore reality?
Better retort to this claim.
In 1998 Michael Mann with his hockey stick temperature model proved runaway global warming.
So Donald Trump is the Michael Mann of tariffs? Couldn’t agree more!
Wow. You actually are getting dumber by the day. Congrats i guess?
No wonder you had to try to label yourself intelligent. Nobody would use that adjective based on your posts.
But we have no bananas today!!!
And Rep. Dean is screeching that Walmart has raised banana prices 8%. That’s less than 3 cents per banana. Yet her party showed no concern when their policies raised egg prices over 100% during Biden’s reign. And Trump has gotten egg prices down by about 60%, so far.
By Trump defender standards, Friedman was a hardcore leftist.
..and a Keynesian. At least that’s what Jesse’s book claims.
Where did I make that claim alberto?
Do you guys ever have anything intelligent to say?
I just state his model is wrong. And unilateral trade isn’t free trade despite the retards he convinced.
But I forget. You dont educate yourself. That list of Nobel ecoonmic awards for papers involving game theory must have stung.
Take the anger you feel, turn it towards educating yourself. It would be far more productive.
Friedman supported mandatory universal health insurance. So did Hayek.
So does everyone. The best insurance pool is the biggest pool.
So?
He said that one possible reform would be to replace Medicare and Medicaid with high-deductible universal catastrophic care insurance while removing most insurance regulation. It’s not accurate to say that he supported “mandatory universal health insurance” in the way that concept is currently imagined. https://www.hoover.org/research/how-cure-health-care-0
Charlie is a liar.
Licknuts and Bizzarro are total morons. Trump kind of is as well since he has a real boner for tariffs. Of course, Reason too has a real boner about tariffs (on the other side).
Miran and Bessent know what they are talking about but are both naive in thinking that we can solve the problem of a distorted economy and still keep the dollar as reserve. You can’t negotiate arithmetic (or the Triffin dilemma).
Tariffs has nothing to do with reshoring. The changes over the last few decades can’t just be reversed. Skills died. Infrastructure decayed. Reshoring will require actual industrial policy for the most part.
What makes you think either will defend the dollar as the reserve at all costs? At best they want to fix what is broken so it stays as the reserve.
The problem with freidmans model and how it is implemented is it requires the US dollar to be the reserve currency to export inflation and utilize decades long trade deficits.
Rather than make an actual case or even take an in depth look at what Friedman was saying and demonstrate that it applies to the current situation with the modern superpower China, Joe Lancaster just appeals to an authority that he thinks libertarians can’t disagree with.
Sad.
So because China was not a superpower then, Friedman’s (and Ricardo’s) argument no long applies? Do you favour the “juchisation” of the US?
Ole Chuck just doesn’t understand how logic works. The dates change. The years change. The situations change. Players change. The logic stays the same. This is the whole point and what the Trumpers will understand.
Logic is great because it’s consistent. It’s proven that have never worked. Won’t work now. Never will work.
Where is the logic in using models that haven’t been proven dumdum?
You guys all claim to be such experts but it seems more and more like none of you have ever read those you appeal to authority for or are able to actually defend the ideas you claim to agree with.
Not a very logical move.
He’s a democrat. They’re not capable of any sustained logical thought.
Hey British shrike. Do you know in the decades that followed Friedman asked for more strict IP protection in order to help the US remain competitive and protected against his trade theory? What do you think he would say about China’s rampant IP theft?
I know you didn’t know that. Doubt you’ve ever actually read him.
Free markets always produce the right answer. This central planning crap always produces the wrong answer.
No matter how many times statists waste so much effort on recreating what free markets create better and more efficiently, it still amazes me.
Then along come the Trump fetishists making every excuse in the book for why it will be different this time, and calling free traders Marxists. I had hoped, when Biden won, that he might at least roll back Trump tariffs, not out of a love of free markets, but just to spite the Trumpists, and nope, true to form, he proved Obama was right when he said there was nothing Biden couldn’t fuck up.
At this point, my only hope for 2028 is that Trump fucks up 2026 so much that even the Trumpists sour on him, the Democrats impeach and convict him, and JD Vance decides to return to his pre-Trump roots in time to win 2028. But I may as well wish for fish. On the other hand, the Democrats are doubling down on everything which ruined 2024, so there’s some faint hope they won’t learn any lessons either.
Free markets always produce the right answer. This central planning crap always produces the wrong answer.
I wouldn’t be quite as definite on the “always”, but it is the way to bet.
Then along come the Trump fetishists making every excuse in the book for why it will be different this time,
They’re either Charlie Brown and the football, or neo-Millerites.
The two retards still dont get unilateral markets aren’t free markets. You’ve both been lied to for years and demand acceptance of the same lies you fell for. Which is why you both resort to simpleton arguments consisting largely of bumper stickers.
The Jesse still doesn’t understand that he doesn’t get to change definitions. Unilateral free trade is free trade, whether you like it or not.
No grasshopper, it is not.
Yes it is. And you don’t get to claim otherwise and not get pushback. This is a free trade web site. Go comment on trumpisalwaysright.com.
Poor Charlie.
And this isn’t WaPo, MotherJones, Rolling Stone, or Jacobin. Which is where YOU belong.
So kindly fuck off down the way.
Maybe take a month off and find a retreat to remove your hate? I am sure if it wasn’t for Trump, your hate would be for someone or something else, if you don’t have already a few things you blindly hate. Going through life being a hater is not becoming of anyone.
I was horrified by Biden keeping most of Trump’s tariffs. He should have eliminated them on the afternoon of January 20, 2021.
But way too many Democrats love tariffs. They will lose the 2028 election by being too much like Trump.
Trump’s first term was essentially the impotent Jeb! presidency…and it was actually pretty good! Now we are getting crazy Trump just like we got post 9/11 Bush…just nutz.
Democrats will lose because they’re screeching about protecting precious illegals and championing terrorists and violent gangbangers, plus their obsession with grooming and mutilating young children.
Democrats have nothing to offer normal people. Except for misery, pain and horror.
No matter how many times statists waste so much effort on recreating what free markets create better and more efficiently, it still amazes me.
Where’s the free market? Stupid. That’s literally what we’re trying to correct. Can’t fix 40 years of Leftist globalist driven offshoring in 4 months.
In today’s dose of TDS, we’re going to pretend that growing bananas and manufacturing microchips and automobiles and consumer plastics is all the same thing insofar as production capability is concerned.
We’d have to build hothouses to… make… the…. um… toothbrushes.
That sound you’re hearing is Joe Lancaster ripping on his bong, in order to make it all make sense to him.
In today’s dose of junk economics, the people who flunked their college course contend that it makes economic sense to slap high tariffs on products that the US will never be able to produce competitively no matter how much the government subsidizes them.
Yea. Let’s bring back slavery, like those “competitive producers” use.
Your assessment of what the US can and cannot produce will be insane irrelevant.
Milton Friedman (whom I loved) also argued that American businesses forced to compete with foreign products which were subsidized by their governments and dumped on the American market was “good” for American businesses because it would force them to innovate. The ‘innovation’ which occurred was to essentially wipe out the American-based industry.
I am not loyally tied to 100% ‘built in America’ philosophy. But I have also come to the opinion that a country that builds nothing and wipes out an entire class of jobs that huge numbers of Americans are well-suited for does not make for a healthy nation or economy.
If this were the 70s or the 80s when we had a sclerotic domestic auto industry completely wrung dry by labor unions and the Japanese show up with an inexpensive, nimble and fuel efficient vehicle, I’m absolutely against tariffs. And in fact, I’m still not 100% on board with Tariffs as a tool to rebuild the American industrial base. But it has become clear that Tariffs have in fact been an effective negotiating tool for all matter of things that even the New York Times has begrudgingly admitted has been effective.
it has become clear that Tariffs have in fact been an effective negotiating tool
Clear? There has not been one serious negotiation outcome since the tariffs were suspended – nothing is seriously being negotiated – because no one knows what in the fuck Trump is after. The UK didn’t change anything other than making sure their cars were exempt from the 10% across the board tariff.
Tariffs have become a very effective way for Trump to get attention every couple of days and keep the spotlight on himself. But that ain’t no way for a big economy to function. We are going to see the cost of that over the year or so.
Which actually has nothing to do with tariffs per se. Has more to do with Trump’s blindingly stupid execution of whatever his tariffs plan is.
Clear? There has not been one serious negotiation outcome since the tariffs were suspended – nothing is seriously being negotiated – because no one knows what in the fuck Trump is after. The UK didn’t change anything other than making sure their cars were exempt from the 10% across the board tariff.
Perhaps you might familiarize yourself with the latest musings from the New York Times where they try to unravel the mystery of dramatically reduced fentanyl overdoses.
Well I don’t familiarize myself with the NYT on any topic. But fentanyl OD’s have been falling since 2023 – not since April.
Of course I am aware that hundreds of billions of lives were saved by the Attorney General who found fentanyl somewhere in the US. Is that what you think is tariff related?
Of course the OD’s were falling in 2023, the eyes couldn’t be hidden any longer so the DNC pivoted and made a couple frivolous actions. That led to the “Ghost” Biden believing they could be Trump for 6 months and win the election. The political trick of the light and the pen the DNC had power over that was eroding for a couple years couldn’t fool the people twice. And now the shame’s on them and they still act like it’s not them that was/is the problem. Sad but true.Can’t make this shit up. They had to pay people to speak for them and actors to make it look like their support was authentic. Stupid is as stupid does.
Mention this above.
Freidman strongly argued for more IP rights and defense of those rights by the US to mitigate the loss of capital from his unilateral trade model. These rights are not defended. Yet those who claim to agree with him ignore this point constantly.
“The ‘innovation’ which occurred was to essentially wipe out the American-based industry.”
Wrong. We erred by protecting the auto and steel industry, although not with tariffs. We restricted the number of imports of Japanese cars, giving the Japanese auto manufacturers windfall profits, and doing nothing for US auto manufacturers, two out of three of which eventually went broke. We gave big tax credits to the steel industry so that they could modernize their plants, but the largest US steelmaker took the gift and bought an oil company instead.
The Trump Cult does not want to admit that there are many businesses that deserve to go out of business, and entire industries that deserve to cease to exist. Basic steel was one of them. It had been badly managed for generations. Eventually we let it die and as a result the US became more prosperous.
“Tariffs have in fact been an effective negotiating tool for all matter of things ”
No they haven’t been. The closest thing to a major agreement was the one with the UK whose main effect was to allow Jaguar/Land Rover to continue to import vehicles to the US, giving US consumers more choices and saving some jobs in the UK. That is good if you like Keir Starmer.
Did he also disprove your claim Trump is going to nationalize tiktok?
Dear Orange Leader will capture ALL of world-wide production of bananas in THE New Master Banana Republic, known ass the USA!!!
USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! Hooo-Ray!!!
Next, Trump will say that two bananas per year is enough for Americans.
I think you are confused thinking Trump is Castro and the USA is the marxist utopia you want to live in?
Why do all arguments about bananas (or whatever) have to be purely economic? There may very good sociocultural reasons to grow bananas in Logan. The bottom line (hah) is what people are willing to pay, and maybe people would want to pay for Logan bananas for various reasons. It’s not up to some dreary economist to determine what’s “sensible;” they have no clue about anything themselves. Remember the joke — if you put 10 economists in a room, you’ll get 11 opinions. And Friedman’s gaseous thought balloon proves nothing (that sound you hear is Euclid spinning up in his grave), so how could Friedman have “disproved” Trump?
Vesicant, you ignorant slut! There is nothing whatever stopping anyone from growing bananas in Logan! It IS up to some dreary economist to determine what is “sensible” if you’re trying to impose punitive tariffs on imports to promote the growing of bananas in Logan. You’ve missed the point entirely – this is not about whether you should grow bananas in Logan; it’s about whether we should let Trump raise all our prices in America and stop less wealthy people from buying bananas. You are, however, correct that Milton’s statement was not even remotely the “perfect retort” to this kind of silliness.
And how many domestic taxes will go on that domestic grown banana?
10%? Only in the domestic producers wildest dreams.
How many domestic banana’s would get produced if it was only 10%?
TDS-addled slimy pile of shit Lancaster:
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Fuck off and die, asswipe.
Why do all other countries do tariffs then?
If tariffs only hurt the applying country then why is everyone freaking out about America’s?
Are you referring to the shithole countries, or the ones that are wealthier than the U.S.?
Which ones?
Why do other countries have import taxes to protect politically connected industries? It’s not fair that their big businesses run their government and determine tax policy! We need to have special interests tell our government what to tax too! Not fair not fair not fair!
Prime Minister Robert: “Queen Ivana, the peasants are starving because they have no bananas!”
Queen Ivana: “Let them eat potatoes!”
My father liked him as did my brother but I see him as another unprincipled guy —- Oh, when he spots an enemy he gets all worked up but as Jaffa said about Bork, Scalia, and others, they don’t have first principles.
SO Milton famously said
Milton Friedman — ‘One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.’
THis is just utilitarianism and often makes two HUGE errors
1) THe people who agree (and you think they are friends and supporters) are the opposite. I support Prohibition and you think we agree but I have a huge still out back and Prohibition will increase my sales.
2) Friedman never grasped what motivated the Founders. NEVER and Harry Jaffa got it on the nose
JAFFA: Yes, I think Jerry Falwell is exactly what Milton Friedman needed. [laughter] Because Milton Friedman’s free market economics is in itself absolutely amoral. I won’t call myself a free market economist because I’m not an economist at all. I am however a devotee of the free market as a most desirable ground for constitutional government. But I don’t regard it as a great gift in the cause of human freedom if unrestricted choice becomes an end in itself. I don’t believe that at all. I think that “freedom to choose” guided by moral considerations and by proper education becomes a great vehicle of human well-being. But only then. Yes?
” But only then. Yes?”
Not just “no” but “HELL NO!” I find it desirable that my neighbors and compatriots be “guided by moral considerations and by proper education” as long as you and Jaffa don’t get to dictate the moral considerations or enforce the definition of “proper” on our education. Freedom to choose IS the end in itself and we hope that people will choose wisely. If they fail to choose wisely, tough luck, but only they should bear the consequences of their poor choices. I have no claim on them and they have no claim on me as long as they don’t initiate force against others or harm others in the process.
“Look, man, I ain’t fallin’ for no banana in my tailpipe!”
yet again….nothing as to why some countries can make some things for less.
Mr. President, we must not allow… a
mine shaftbanana gap!Imagine if this “Libertarian” publication had devoted a quarter of the ink to the rampant totalitarianism and treason of the previous de facto Dictatorship run under puppet Joe Biden as they did did whining about Trump course-correcting our economy and one-sided trade agreements.