The Supreme Court Is About To Hear 2 Education Cases. Neither Goes Far Enough.
The Court will weigh religious opt-outs and charter school discrimination. But true educational freedom means funding students, not systems.

Before the end of April, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear not one, but two important education freedom cases. At stake in both is the ability of families to determine what children will learn.
Unfortunately, no matter how the cases are decided, neither will get us to where we ultimately need to be for a free and equal society: money following children to whatever education they and their families choose.
The first case, Mahmoud v. Taylor, is too narrow. Mahmoud pits parents in Montgomery County, Maryland, against a school district that prohibited them from opting their children out of readings promoting lifestyles at odds with their religious convictions.
School board member Lynne Harris unabashedly said imposition was necessary. "Saying that a kindergartener can't be present when you read a book about a rainbow unicorn because it offends your religious rights or your family values or your core beliefs is just telling that kid, 'Here's another reason to hate another person,'" Harris said, adding "we are not going to do that in the school system."
Government imposing the "right" morals is obviously at odds with a free, diverse society, and allowing for an opt-out is a no-brainer. But it is also just a bare minimum: Families would be able to shield their children from the imposition of values, but would still be given no power to choose a curriculum consistent with their religious convictions.
It is a Band-Aid on a liberty hemorrhage.
The second case, St. Isidore of Seville Catholic Virtual School v. Drummond, seeks to expand freedom and equality, not just provide basic choice against government imposition. But it still does not offer a solution.
St. Isidore is a Roman Catholic cyber charter school that received approval to operate from Oklahoma's state charter school board. However, the state's supreme court later overturned the approval because it is a religious school. Charter schools are, by law, public, but they are supposed to be free from many rules and regulations that govern traditional public schools. Because they are public schools, under the principle of separation of church and state, they have never been affiliated with any religion.
But there is a glaring problem with that: It discriminates on the basis of religion. It says a charter school can adopt any ethos it wants, as long as it is not a religious one. Citing precedent, the petitioners cite several recent Supreme Court decisions that find if a state runs a school choice program, it cannot exclude religious institutions.
It is a compelling argument, but the prior cases were about private choice—scholarship tax credit and town-tuitioning programs that empower families to make choices among autonomous private schools. Chartering is different, as it almost always involves a government entity—a school district or a state board—deciding whether to approve applications to create a school. This presents the danger that an authorizer might approve or disapprove a charter application based on the applicant's religious status. And even if religion did not play into the decision, suspicion that it did could spark an ugly church-state conflict.
This is a rock-and-a-hard-place situation for the Supreme Court: Rule against St. Isidore, and discrimination against religion wins. Rule for it, and dangerous government entanglement will ensue.
Thankfully, there is a solution to both the discrimination and entanglement problems, and it can be seen in the precedents: money following children to private choices. If money follows kids to truly private schools that families choose, the government has no role at all in the decision and is therefore truly neutral.
This seems logically and constitutionally obvious. Government must not select religious viewpoints to uphold or advance, including secularism. But this is inherently the position in which public schooling puts government. Of course, educational freedom is bigger than religion—government should not be imposing one curriculum, or set of policies, on anyone. But religion, constitutionally, demands neutrality.
Letting families opt out of instruction that violates their religious values is better than no option, and allowing them to choose religious public schools is better than excluding religion. But only real choice among private educational options fully fits the freedom and equality bill.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
" . . . money following children to whatever education they and their families choose."
And what kind of money? Why tax dollars, of course.
Does anyone know of a libertarian web site where they would be saying that tax money should not be involved?
^THIS +10000000000...
That magical unicorn "money following children" that falls from the sky? /s
Can't dazzle people with magical "An economy out of nothing" and "Trade deficits (including labor) are a good thing and have never in history been a bad thing because groceries come from the grocery store." arguments if you haven't college educated them on someone else's dime first.
Huh.
2.
Economic troubles and overreliance on slave labor
Even as Rome was under attack from outside forces, it was also crumbling from within thanks to a severe financial crisis. Constant wars and overspending had significantly lightened imperial coffers, and oppressive taxation and inflation had widened the gap between rich and poor. In the hope of avoiding the taxman, many members of the wealthy classes had even fled to the countryside and set up independent fiefdoms.
At the same time, the empire was rocked by a labor deficit. Rome’s economy depended on slaves to till its fields and work as craftsmen, and its military might had traditionally provided a fresh influx of conquered peoples to put to work. But when expansion ground to a halt in the second century, Rome’s supply of slaves and other war treasures began to dry up.
.
Chtst.
In know, right? How about we let President Trump dissolve the federal DoE, as planned, and set up 529 accounts for every school age child in the US with the savings? One time only. Then cut the tax rate by the annual charge to pay for the DoE currently.
That would be a quite large step in the right direction, it seems to me.
Since there's not a chance in hell that publicly funded education will be coming to an end, doesn't it make sense to advocate for making it more fair?
How about both?
One way of making it more fair would be by charging means-tested tuition at public schools.
Parents who could well afford to pay for their offspring's education would have to cough up some dough. This would provide some relief for the taxpayer, who wouldn't have to furnish those funds. It would also make private schools more competitive with public schools, since many parents would have to shell out either way, so would have less of an economic motive to opt for public schooling. This would force public schools to improve, since they'd now have to attract students by their merits rather than by their low cost.
And no one affluent enough to have to pay would ever vote for a school levy again. We'd need a new way to finance the school districts.
That's what I came here to say.
Neal is an idiot and doesn’t understand how court cases work.
Apparently, he’s all for judges making laws. Don’t know why we need the other two branches
Exactly. And if taxpayer money is involved, religion cannot be.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"But true educational freedom means funding students, not systems."
WTF kind of libertarian idea is that? Maybe it's better than status quo, but how about people pay to educate their own offspring instead of demanding that the rest of society be taxed to do it for them?
Whoa whoa whoa…let’s not get crazy here.
Exactly. Sophisticated libertarians only offer mild critiques of the Leviathan, and would never risk living with more actual liberties--and personal responsibilities--even if they could.
Call them subscript "l" libertarians?
Mild critiques againat the leviathan but strong critiques against those trying to implement even mild changes.
Look, if you can’t eliminate the deficit all at once, why even try to cut it?
Yes, let's be an isolated band of kooks no one takes seriously, rather than advocate for improvements that might have a chance of actually happening.
For once something I can agree with you on. I think it is profoundly unrealistic to think that all education will be privatized overnight. There is going to be some degree of state support of education in one way or another. But there is no reason that the state has to actually run the schools. Having all-private schools, with some state support directed at students attending those schools, is I think the most libertarian outcome that we can potentially hope for in the near-ish future, and that is even a stretch IMO. But it is at least within the realm of possibility, while "zero tax money going to any education" is I think crazytown on a practical level.
“I think it is profoundly unrealistic to think that all education will be privatized overnight.”
Does Lying Jeffy believe anyone thinks we can get all education privatized “overnight”? So why did he say this? Oh that’s right, he’s a liar.
The point here was that funding students instead of schools is NOT true educational freedom! Very few libertarians would argue against small achievable steps in the right direction, although some might say that only going for small steps would undermine the larger effort.
The first sentences of this article could have been "Look, we all know that we're not going to achieve the ideal of freeing taxpayers from the burden of educating everyone else's children overnight. Given that, this proposed change has some things that libertarians can appreciate..."
But instead the whole sine qua non of this article was 100% focused on how to spend the taxpayer's money differently--perhaps better. Not a word about reducing or eliminate the taxpayer's education burden. I expect more from a libertarian resource, but this is Reason, after all, so I cannot be too surprised.
Tax money should not be used to fund education at all. School choice is better than no school choice, but it's only one small step along the road.
https://babylonbee.com/news/american-hostages-in-gaza-disguise-themselves-as-ms-13-gang-members-so-democrats-will-fight-to-bring-them-home
I am amazed the Bee can still find ways to satirize the left, in an era where their own actions often seem like parody.
I just read it for the prophecy.
I just love it when they get fact checked: “No, Satan didn’t endorse Harris.”
Harris could not afford Satan.
He's terrified by her cackle.
lol
That's why Not-the-bee had to be initiated.
Any interest in this story yet? We know Sullum supported bidens counter right wing "terrorism" task force.
DNI Tulsi Gabbard
@DNIGabbard
As promised, I have declassified the Biden Administration’s Strategic Implementation Plan for Countering Domestic Terrorism.
Read it here: https://odni.gov/index.php/newsroom/dig/4064-dig-strat-impl-plan-ct-biden
Why do you hate school board members who are trying to indoctrinate kids and save them from deplorable MAGA parents?
Pillar Four: Confront Long-Term Contributors to Domestic Terrorism
Intended Impact 4.1.1: Lethal means for perpetrating acts of domestic terrorism are reduced. Greater care is provided earlier to potentially dangerous individuals. Norms of non-violent political expression and rejection of racism and bigotry are strengthened. Americans have increasing faith in democracy and government. Increase intervention and care for those who pose a danger to themselves and others. Strengthen civics education that promotes democratic resiliency. Increase civic engagement to foster social cohesion.
Action 4.1.la: Rein in the proliferation of"ghost guns"; encourage state adoption of extreme risk protection orders; and drive other executive and legislative action. including banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. (Lead:DPC)
Action 4.1.1 b: Implement the COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act to address hate crime reporting barriers faced by disadvantaged communities by promoting law enforcement training and resources to prevent and address bias-motivated crimes; improve federal hate crimes data and analysis to eliminate hate crimes underreporting; mitigate xenophobia and bias, including by advancing inclusion in the nation's COVID-19 response. (Lead: DPC)
Welcome to England.
Blatant violation of both 1A and 2A.
Since when did the Democrats care about the Constitution?
“…… covid 19 hate crimes act….”
Jesus.
Bill Melugin
@BillMelugin_
NEW: DHS has provided
@FoxNews
a bodycam image & HSI report from when Kilmar Abrego Garcia was pulled over by Tennessee Highway Patrol & was suspected of human trafficking in 2022. Per report, he had 8 people w/ no luggage in the car w/ him, & claimed to be driving them from TX to MD for construction work. Every passenger gave the same home address as Abrego Garcia’s address. The report says Abrego Garcia was evasive during questioning, and had an expired license.
He was not arrested or charged with any crime in relation to the incident.
DHS says the report has yesterday’s date due to redactions made of law enforcement sensitive info for public consumption, but this is an old document.
https://x.com/BillMelugin_/status/1913274382119546938
'No court proved he was in ms13".
Trump just released photo of garcias tattoos. Will wait for explanation on how this one is a soccer tattoo.
https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1913358867708493982/photo/1
To be fair. It isn't a notarized membership card.
Whaddyathink, 10:1 odds that FIRE won't be conducting "Should the person attached to this hand be deported?" opinion polls any time soon? 5:1 odds that Reason won't be printing any sort of correction or retraction?
It's getting to be like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football. They let the press and the terminally online run up and make retards of themselves with their in-the-moment lived experiences and then, slowly methodically, walk them through the facts to demonstrate what retards they were.
We’ve reached the point where no information will change people’s minds.
This.
Just about Garcia, or about everything?
Yes.
You're aware the MS13 is photoshopped in, right?
LOL
LOL what?
LOL I'm dumb for thinking you guys might be that dumb?
Or LOL the MS13 are actual tattoos?
Apparently the retard signal was lit for all the leftist retards like qb.
They all are making the statement not realizing the letters describe the meaning of the symbols.
Mike and Jeff are fucking retarded.
Example.
https://x.com/micyoung75/status/1913361229906669936
Here you go Mike. The letters were added by officers to describe the symbolism.
Wang King
@mfermillionaire
It isn't doctored
It is explaining the symbolism for people who don't understand what those symbols mean
Crash course in gang symbolism:
M(marijuana leaf)
S (smiley face)
1 ( a cross is a symbol for 1- because of the shape)
3 (skull= cranium, c is the 3rd letter in the alphabet)
What other meaning does this tattoo have and why was his wife hiding his tattoos in social media posts?
I get it though Mike. You live on leftist Twitter.
I'm sure cartoon-face Mike [Ukraine Flag] [Israeli Flag] [Orange Square????*]'s is an authority on prison tattoos. Even if only in his own head.
* !!!!
Someday you'll string a random series of words together that makes sense. Not today, but someday.
Understanding mad.casual's posts is an IQ test.
More like a patience test.
Weird how the same gray boxes are the ones that keep failing... and "complaining".
Not today either.
I've never been on Twitter in my life.
But you keep trying. I'm sure someone believes you.
This one's hilarious.
3 (skull= cranium, c is the 3rd letter in the alphabet)
Do gangs carry around an enigma machine to decode each other's tattoos?
Seriously?
So far I've seen:
the skull covers up a 3
the 3 holes eyes and nose (ignore the mouth?)
and now this which is my favorite
Which is it?
Where?
I don't remember, but I found this about the 3 holes:
https://x.com/i/grok/share/Cc5KqIZIflsRQJsz7dc24bKbG
And our very own ML said meaning of the symbols on his hands and what the last two are covering above.
You're so bad at this.
Quicktown Brix 2 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
I've never been on Twitter in my life.
But you keep trying. I'm sure someone believes you.
It came up in a google search, genius.
Oh shit, you're a parody. My bad.
Whatever, anyone making a Pink Floyd reference is still cool with me.
Even the New York Post is crying foul about the claim that these tattoos represent some secret MS13 code.
https://nypost.com/video/kilmar-abrego-garcias-tattoos-explained-as-conspiracy-theories-run-wild/
The letters were added by officers to describe the symbolism.
no they weren't, the letters were added by conspiracy nuts on X to try to turn ordinary tattoos into some secret code.
The video above has some examples of some actual MS13 tattoos. They aren't in code. They say exactly what they mean. Which kinda makes sense, from their point of view, because one of the purposes of these tattoos is to intimidate people into submitting to their violence. Some super-secret code doesn't intimidate anyone.
EVEN the New York post? Goddamn you’re dumb.
Come on man! The New York post is constantly being quoted every morning in the roundup comments!
This is the diversion that they want us to play along with, don't fall for it. They want us to focus on the moral status of Garcia, to divert our attention away from their support of the president unilaterally deciding to send a man to life imprisonment in a foreign gulag.
Well I'm just checking because I've seen certian people uncritically believe some idiotic stuff.
The symbols are real, but the text is faked.
You can see it clearly here:
https://www.aol.com/deported-alleged-gangbanger-kilmar-abrego-200813633.html
Look, of course they are lying. They have lied about Garcia since the very beginning. They will do or say anything to try to "prove" that he is in MS-13. And it works because they are trying him in the court of public opinion where the burden of proof is very, very low. People who value liberty should not be fighting the authoritarians on their own turf. They will win the "case" in the court of public opinion because they are masters at demagoguery and riling up the mob. IMO the correct strategy is to point out that their lies about Garcia don't matter. Whether he is or isn't in MS-13, the fact of the matter is, they support unilateral executive power to send a man to lifetime imprisonment in a foreign gulag without a trial or any meaningful due process commensurate to the magnitude of this punishment. They support this because they never think they will be the ones victimized by the government because - hey, they don't have weird tattoos and they don't wear Chicago Bulls hoodies! They're "normal"!
In other words, they WANT all of these fights to be in the court of public opinion. They WANT the government to be de facto deciding who gets sent to a foreign gulag based on how cleverly they can lie to the public about how dangerous they may or may not be. Because that is where they are strongest. They lose when the fight is where it is supposed to be, in the courtroom and not on Twitter.
Got it.
"The symbols are real, but the text is faked."
The text isn't "faked", Quickton.
They aren't pretending that he had those letters on his hand. That was illustrative text placed on the photos by law enforcement to show the meaning of the symbols on his hands and what the last two are covering, and that's pretty obvious.
But you gave aid and comfort to Lying Jeffy. Look at how happy it made the evil retard.
Thank you, ML.
Yes, "faked" was poor wording on my part. I was legitimately confused if people realized that it was not part of the tattoo because elsewhere there seems to be some confusion about that. You have clarified it for me and I appreciate it.
It's Mike's usual "yes I was wrong earlier but will make a claim nobody is making to accuse you of what i did"
As I said above about FIRE, don't use the word soccer and just show the hand.
Cannabis leaf, dead-eyed smiley, cross, skull... Do you think this person is in a gang or a felon? Should this person be arrested/deported?
This is really getting into the same-old, same-old Schrödinger's Whiny Bitch territory. I got them because they make me look tough, like someone dangerous! I didn't expect people to actually think I was dangerous! They don't really mean anything I swear! Sure, I've got a skull-shaped spider tattoo across my face and neck, I don't understand why the high-dollar, luxury zen spa wouldn't hire me?
The "code translation" was not a product of law enforcement. It was the result of conspiracy nuts on X.
https://nypost.com/video/kilmar-abrego-garcias-tattoos-explained-as-conspiracy-theories-run-wild/
There is absolutely nothing in the court record that claims these tattoos represent some secret MS13 code.
CoUrT ReCoRd
Did we agree yet that he had outstanding deportation order, and had he been removed to one of the 3rd-countries that would accept him instead of El Salvador (the one country judicially excluded from his destination list), it would have been a non-event, deportation-wise? All the noise about "maryland father" and grieving fiance would be moot?
I will keep hoping the Adminstration works to return him from El Salvador where he was erroneously sent and immediately sends him to Panama or Costa Rica or one of the other countries accepting US deportees.
It is an evidence picture, so no sure what point you were making.
I'm not sure what point you're making.
You think that the illustrative text on the photos was supposed to be a photoshop on his hands, right?
OK it's clear to me now.
That’s what the LOL was for.
Mike didn't know what the picture was saying. He just reflexively attacked it.
Bet if I go to leftist Twitter they are all making the same retarded statements.
And they're (absent the obvious labeling) plainly visible in other media photos from other outlets.
This is really turning into the 10 yr. old girl who needed an abortion that we don't really talk about.
There probably are cases of actual mistaken identity or completely circumstantial arrest/deportations going on... CBP showed up at 7851 Harding Street instead of 7815... but that won't get addressed because the mental-midget, clickbait media retards have already doubled- and tripled-down on this story.
Oof:
https://reason.com/2025/04/19/the-supreme-court-is-about-to-hear-2-education-cases-neither-goes-far-enough/?comments=true#comment-11011621
Help a brother with TDS out. I don't get it.
Try harder. Read ML's comments about it.
OK. I was stupid. I admit it.
Okay mike. Go with that.
Fucking idiot. You wereitwrally claiming he had no gang tattoos just a week ago. Now doing your best to chaff and deflect with a claim I never fucking made you retarded dishonest shit.
I saw your comment before the edit so I already saw that you fell for it until you saw ML's comment.
What edit? Where i added more to the same message? I never edited it to change it you lying fuck. I saw the presser.
You were the retard who fell for "it was photo shopped. Fucking lying piece of shit.
I added to it to explain more of how big a fucking idiot you are lol.
Uh huh. You protest too much.
And I still claim he has no gang tattoos. The whole thing is weak, but especially the skull representing 3 or covering up a 3.
You literally think they tried to photo shop a fake tattoo into the picture you dumb retarded leftist shit lol.
No I just know that some people are too biased to see the obvious, like you and probably Trump himself who said "he’s got MS-13 tattooed onto his knuckles."
I really appreciate the vindication!
The absolute unabashed irony in claiming you think other people are too ideologically blinded to see the truth in a comment thread where you made a silly mistake due to your own ideological blind spots.
Best part is now the beaten girlfriend is editing all her photos to cover the tattoos.
Then after admitting he did it...continues to.
I was only asking until I was attacked. Then Jesse proved my question was justified.
You were attacked?
Call the cops!
LOL. OK I deserved that.
I wAs OnLy AsKiNg!
MS-13, like Antifa, doesn't have membership cards. It's more of an idea than an organization...
Would it be too much to have a due process hearing before allowing him to be deported to El Salvador - since the existing order prohibits him from being sent there?
Reconsider the earlier order - there should be plenty of evidence for that according to commenters and the administration.
*Then* he could have been ordered to El Salvador, and returned there legally.
Would that be too much to do ONCE? No. But we have MILLIONS of illegal aliens who need to go. The resources do not exist to give all of them hearings with the evidentiary standards of a criminal case. That the entered the country illegally must be enough to justify deportation.
Maybe should, but that's not what the law says. It specifies administrative hearings (not criminal trials).
He had hearings. The law does not say that an illegal alien must be proved guilty beyond reasonable doubt of criminal acts before being deported.
OK, if each hearing takes an hour, then each official can hear 8 cases a day. That's over 3000 years for one official, and over 3 years for 1000 officials (assuming 5,000,000 cases).
Whatever, he *already* had a hearing (whether it was one hour I don't know), and the hearing officer made his decision: Garcia is deportable, but not to El Salvador because of evidence showing persecution. It should at minimum take another hearing to overrule the first hearing.
If the executive can ignore its own hearing officers, maybe it can ship you out of the country as an "illegal alien" despite a hearing officer's decision that you're a citizen.
MaYbE
Please show us where in the Constitution or federal law a "hearing officer" has the power to decide if someone is a citizen.
Good catch, he doesn't.
I'm suggesting here that...how shall I put this...the administration is not hobbled by the niceties of due process where immigration issues are concerned.
Fortunately, you don't get to decide what constitutes "due process". We have no hope of making any significant progress against the invasion of illegal aliens if all of them are given the equivalent of a criminal trial before they can be deported.
Not what I said.
Garcia had a hearing (not a criminal trial) where the hearing officer - an executive branch employee - decided Garcia was an illegal alien subject to deportation, *but* that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador, based on a statute you don't like but which exists.
You repeatedly said he did not get "due process", by which we must assume you meant that his "hearings" should have been more elaborate and expensive.
He had a hearing. The executive ignored the results of that hearing. Thus, due process was denied.
If they'd abided by the results of the hearing, *that* would have been due process.
In this thread, I've seen claims that Panama or Costa Rica could have claimed him, in which case, without further hearings, we could have sent him to those countries, and that would have been due process, too.
It would take a new hearing to make it legal to send him to El Salvador, since that had been prohibited by the previous hearing.
prohibited by the previous hearing.
So, the hearing officer outranks the Secretary of State and the President?
The relevant official is the Attorney General, and the immigration enforcers could have appealed the case all the way up to Attorney General level, but they didn't. So although the Attorney General outranks his department's hearing officers, he *didn't* use his superior rank to overrule the hearing officer. When the AG left the hearing officer's order in place, it became the Attorney General's own action.
So the real issue is whether the Pres or AG can override due process of law (guaranteed by the 5th Amendment).
The good news (from your point of view) is that the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952 provides: "An alien whose presence or activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is deportable."
Secretary of State Rubio has been using this clause a lot lately, but as far as I know didn't use it on Garcia, whose case remains subject to a different section of the law, involving illegal immigrants.
And of course, just because Congress enacted this provision doesn't make it constitutional.
I agree, he should never have been deported to El Salvadore without a hearing. But given his outstanding deportation order--one he'd already had his due-process actions for--he should have been sent to Panama or Costa Rica or one of the other countries accepting 3rd-country deportees. Without any further hearings.
That would have been fine, if you're right about Costa Rica and Panama.
Legal status is civil anyways. That's what the left has screamed for a decade now.
Surely then, life imprisonment in a foreign gulag is a punishment far too harsh for the civil crime of illegal entry, right?
Hey Lying Jeffy, are forgiving student loans and covid mandates article 2 powers?
How is an El Salvador prison a "foreign gulag" for an El Salvadoran citizen? The US deported him(*). El Salvador put one of its citizens in prison.
(*) Stipulated: he was NOT supposed to be deported to El Salvador. He should have been deported to a 3rd country, in holding with his outstanding deportation orders.
"Look, there were just far too many rioters on Jan. 6 to try to set up an individual trial for each one. Better then to just charge them all with sedition, round them all up and throw them all in jail."
You would never support this position for Jan. 6 rioters, why would you support something similar for illegal immigrants?
Does anyone think Lying Jeffy doesn't know the difference?
Due process literally has different meanings for different kinds of cases. Criminal case due process is very different than immigration due process, per Congress.
The resources do not exist to give all of them hearings with the evidentiary standards of a criminal case.
Just wait until you are on the short end of the "no resources" stick.
There is no "stick". I'm a citizen, and that can easily be proven on demand, so I will never be in an immigration process.
Would it be too much to deport someone after one judge ordered him deported then a 2nd judge affirmed it? Why would leftists cry less if a third judge got involved?
The gang he claimed to be scared of no longer exists in ES.
The immigration judges ordered him deported. They did NOT order him to life imprisonment in a foreign gulag. In fact a judge specifically ordered that he NOT be sent to El Salvador.
Even if you think he deserves to be deported, and that the due process he received ordering him deported was completely fair and just, there was absolutely no due process which demanded he be sent to prison for life.
It wasn't us who put him in CECOT, that was the president of El Salvador. Their rules.
Oh don't be coy. The US government is specifically paying the government of El Salvador millions of dollars to hold those men in CECOT.
And it's their discretion as to who goes there.
Bukele was doing it before we paid him.
No we aren’t idiot, we were paying them to house Venezuelans, until Venezuela agreed to accept their own
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-wants-deport-some-us-citizens-el-salvador-2025-04-14/
The U.S. is paying El Salvador $6 million to detain the migrants.
"The Trump administration has sent hundreds of migrants accused of criminal affiliations to El Salvador's harsh mega-prison known as the Terrorism Confinement Center, under often-contested legal authorities. The U.S. is paying El Salvador $6 million to detain the migrants"
Lying Jeffy's cite (reuters, with no cite of their own) doesn't address But Skynet's claim whatsoever. Very dishonest. Surprised?
He was drinking margaritas with a congressman down there last I heard. Seems fine.
I don't care what leftists say, but I *am* I'm for enforcing the immigration laws. This includes the government itself obeying the immigration laws.
And the immigration laws specify that the hearing officer decides which countries a person can be deported to. These same laws allow reopening a case if (say) the persecuting gang ceases to exist, or the original order otherwise has lost its factual basis. This is to be established at a new hearing to revise the original order.
So here we are talking immigration laws.
Show me the law that allows a judge to decline asylum, issue final deportation orders, but then add a withholding order for where he can't be sent.
As I've said before the withholding order wasn't even ever legal.
Here it is, Jesse
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1231&num=0&edition=prelim
Section (b) (3) (A):
(A) In general
Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), the Attorney General may not remove an alien to a country if the Attorney General decides that the alien's life or freedom would be threatened in that country because of the alien's race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.
This law is implemented in 8 CFR 208.16(b)
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-208/subpart-A/section-208.16
This is what the immigration judge cited when granting the withholding of removal.
That says it is at the discretion of the AG, and is moot if circumstances change (such as Bukele ridding ES of 18th St)
"The Attorney General *may not remove* etc."
And at minimum, there should be a hearing to decide if circumstances have changed. A hearing which - if everything commenters say is true - Garcia would have lost.
So why insist on denying a hearing which he would have lost anyway?
Also note that Jesse did zero independent research on the topic of 'withholding of removal'. I found this information after less than 5 minutes of google searching. Jesse only repeats what his right-wing masters tell him. Since none of his buddies on X told him about 'withholding of removal', he concludes that it's illegal, even if it's not.
Hey Lying Jeffy, are forgiving student loans and covid mandates article 2 powers?
Reminder. Boasberg sentenced 70 non violent J6ers to prison, often with terms longer than requested by the prosecutor. But he is sympathetic to foreign gang members.
“I’m sympathetic to your conundrum, but I don’t think I have the power to do anything about it,” Boasberg said during an emergency hearing in the District Court for Washington, DC.
'Unfortunately, no matter how the cases are decided, neither will get us to where we ultimately need to be for a free and equal society: money following children to whatever education they and their families choose.'
A swing and a miss!
To repeat what others have already posted, even basic libertarian philosophy would seem to reject government-funded education. And after reading other sources this morning about this and other education support issues, like Trump vs. Harvard, I have to ask: WTF happened to the basic American ideals of limited government and personal charity?
I agree that helping people in need is a good thing, as is supporting and contributing to your community. But taking taxes by force to fund your "good works" IS NOT CHARITY.
"WTF happened to the basic American ideals of limited government and personal charity?"
Um, let me guess - - - - democrats?
What any 1/2-Way HONORABLE justice would rule and everyone knows it......
There is no enumerated power in the US Constitution for the Union of States Government to be involved what-so-ever in education. Therefore; by the 10A that power is "reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"
It's pretty hard to have a USA when even the officials representing "the people" cannot even manage to READ "the peoples" law better than an illiterate toddler.
"It is a Band-Aid on a liberty hemorrhage." - Well Said.
None of this is legal because [Na]tional Commie-Indoctrination camps is illegal in the USA.
Sorry, TJ, but liberty is bad for Democracy. It is known.
...And True.
Just open-viewing ad-lib I'm sure your inline with.
[WE] win-vote gangsters RULES absolute is Anti-Individual Liberty.
By it's very process of 'collectivist' dictation.
Why recent trends to champion 'Democracy' is so dangerous to a USA.
The USA is a *Constitutional*
..... the non-[WE] gangsters RULE law that ensures Liberty & Justice
Republic ...........
NOT a 'Democracy'.
Democracy with choice is basically authoritarianism.
Not letting collectivists impose authoritarianism on the rest of us violates their rights!
Heck, they think not voting for their choice (deliberately limited by exclusion) of candidate violates their right to impose their preferences on everyone who doesn't want them.
" People are weak. People are selfish. When people have the freedom to choose, they choose wrong. Every single time."
[WE] gangs (collectivists) with Guns (Gov-Guns) =/= Individual Liberty or Justice.
Precisely why there are [WE] (Gov) Gun-use LIMITS written in the US Constitution and a 2A (Individual Rights).
Individuals should have freedom to choose.
[WE] gangs of (collectivists) must be LIMITED from Gov-Gun use by a Supreme Law.
Anything involving banning books for some students is not "freedom".
Also secularism is not a religion. The Constitution prohibits government from promoting religion. A taxpayer established and funded public Catholic school is promoting religion. Government employees should not be proselytizing a particular religion at or as their job.
Which books were banned from students?
Or do you think every library has every book ever written? They are free to buy the books dumbass.
He won't answer because he's lying.
Including the DEI and Environmentalist Religions.
…banning books for some students …
What books? What students?
You dumb cunt. Can you tell the difference between putting some books in school libraries behind the counter, and brown-shirts forcing their way into your home and confiscating banned material?
Wherein teacher defends teaching children about the proper use of buttplugs. Dad is not amused.
https://x.com/ccmembersonly/status/1913306581871006202
You trying to give Lying Jeffy an erection?
Hilariously she tried to pull the homophobic card and the father shut her up in one sentence on that one.
What a piece of shit teacher.
Not allowing parents to opt out is now “banning books”?
Soros is not sending us his best people
Anything involving banning books for some students is not "freedom".
WHO BANNED BOOKS?
By your logic not including the Bible in the science curriculum is "banning".
You guys are so dishonest.
Time and time again, when the government commits some authoritarian act against some victim that Team Red approves of, they inevitably try to misdirect the conversation away from the impropriety of the authoritarian behavior of the state, and instead try to make the issue a referendum on the moral status of the victim.
We saw that with George Floyd - a police officer restrains him to the point of suffocating him to death, and instead of discussing whether police officers ought to be using that type of restraint technique, Team Red turns it into a referendum on George Floyd's moral character - 'he was a junkie! he was using fentanyl!' Even if he was, it doesn't justify a police officer crushing his neck with his knee.
And now we are seeing it with Garcia. So the government sends him to life imprisonment in a third-world gulag, and instead of discussing whether the government ought to be able to do that, Team Red turns it into a referendum on Garcia's moral character - 'he's in a gang! he's an illegal! he's a wife-beater!' Even if he was, it doesn't justify sending anyone to life imprisonment in a foreign gulag without any trial or any meaningful due process.
We should not let Team Red get away with this diversionary tactic that they are very good at. Whenever Jesse or one of his minions comes here and tries to litigate Garcia's personal morality, reject the bait and instead point out that the real issue here, as far as liberty is concerned, is that the government arrogated unto itself the power to hand down life sentences to individuals without any sort of meaningful due process that is commensurate for that type of punishment.
Do we really think that the president should have the power to imprison ANYONE for life in a foreign prison based on tattoos and anonymous informants who claim gang membership? With no trial? And not even any accusation that he committed any crime that would warrant a punishment of life imprisonment?
Garcia's "trial" is currently occurring in the court of public opinion. Is that how the government ought to be deciding on guilt or innocence? Do YOU want to be "judged" in the court of public opinion and condemned to life imprisonment based on whatever salacious details the government dregs up from your personal life and presents to the world, where you have zero opportunity to defend yourself? This is literally a type of show trial. Stalin would be proud.
It ultimately does not matter how much of a saint or a sinner Garcia is. The real issue is the authoritarian fascist behavior of this government to condemn ANYONE to life imprisonment in a foreign gulag without any **MEANINGFUL** due process, and in defiance of the courts and long-standing notions of justice.
"We saw that with George Floyd - a police officer restrains him to the point of suffocating him to death"
See how easy Lying Jeffy lies?
instead try to make the issue a referendum on the moral status of the victim.
ALL CRIME IS SUCH!
Sorry that your anarcho-whateverism is hitting you extra hard.
*Justice* is when an innocent man is set free even if the man is a moral scoundrel.
Should immoral people be jailed just for their immorality, regardless of any laws that they might have broken?
No punishment exists without moral judgement.
None.
But the converse is not necessarily true - moral judgment does not necessarily lead to imprisonment by the state. Right?
Again, should immoral people be imprisoned just for their immorality, regardless of laws that they might have broken?
But the converse is not necessarily true - moral judgment does not necessarily lead to imprisonment by the state. Right?
There's that anarch-whatever again.
When did you convert?
That's not anarchism. And why won't you answer my question? Should immoral people be imprisoned by the state regardless of any laws that they might have broken?
All laws are based on moral judgements.
I don't know why you are pretending like you don't know that, so maybe your anarach-whatever is anarach-contrarian.
You are missing (IMO intentionally) the substance of the argument. Of course every law has some type of moral foundation. But there are far more behaviors that are considered "immoral" than there are laws regulating/banning those behaviors. In my question I specifically omitted the types of behaviors for which there were already laws. I'm talking about behaviors that most would consider immoral, but are not currently illegal. As a specific example, consider adultery. Do you think adultery should be illegal?
It's past (and current, in locations) illegality refutes your argument that we don't judge criminality of people.
Not only do we, but that is the entire foundation of laws. Hence, why I asked when you converted to anarach-adjacent.
No, my argument is that we don't throw people in jail based *solely* on whether they acted immorally. If so, every adulterer would be thrown in jail. There is a higher bar for what constitutes behavior that should be regarded as illegal.
Better check where you live, then. There are always going to be exceptions.
Could it be that you actually have a conscience to bother you?
I'd be shocked if he actually had one.
And time and time again, the left makes martyrs out of, er, questionable characters that at least shared blame for what happened. And people box wine moms would have arrested for just approaching them.
"The left" didn't turn him into a martyr. TRUMP did, when he decided to deport him carelessly. Do you not know how martyrdom works? Absolutely no one would have known about or cared about Garcia had Trump not decided to reveal his inner fascist in the way that he did.
Never-mind how careless Biden and the left is about defending the nation against an invasion.
Never-mind Obama literally E.O. an invasion via DACA.
No, no ... It only matters when Trump E.O. to deport the invasion the left literally E.O.ed to happen. As it played out when Trump tried to cancel Obama's E.O.
Hey look, it's the Magical Tariffs again!
Trump: We're going to impose tariffs on all these countries so that consumers change their behavior and stop buying products from those countries.
Also Trump: We're going to get so rich from tariffs, why tariffs are bringing in $2 billion per day, which is an estimate that assumes no one changes their behavior on where they buy their products.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-tariffs-revenue-billions-fact-focus-a74e9640e4f0976121a2f43cf3f9ca05
Hey look! Trump might actually pay-down the massive debt leftard socialists made before almost bankrupting the USA like they did Venezuela, cut US domestic taxes and grow US production all at the same time.
This is a rock-and-a-hard-place situation for the Supreme Court: Rule against St. Isidore, and discrimination against religion wins. Rule for it, and dangerous government entanglement will ensue.
Door #3: spike incorporation doctrine.
Then it doesn't matter.
Haha:
“Now plainly spell out what the tattoo means. Trust me, the retards are gonna lose their minds”
https://x.com/capeandcowell/status/1913648773823164818
Lol. Qb is definitely the retard.
So, here is the story behind why SCOTUS acted so fast to stop implementation of the Alien Enemies Act.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/04/supreme-court-blocks-deportations-donald-trump-alito-dissent.html
1. Government was about to deport more people to Venezuela or El Salvador based on the AEA, bused them to southern Texas
2. Judge in the Southern District of Texas stopped them, said you didn't give them an opportunity for habeas relief as SCOTUS said that they should, and also, don't move the migrants out of the county
3. The government ignored the court and bused the migrants to a facility in northern Texas
4. Judge in the Northern District of Texas didn't stop them, allowed it to proceed
5. That is when the appeal went directly to SCOTUS begging them to stop this.
It is lawless behavior all around. SCOTUS *unanimously* told Team Trump that they had to grant those individuals the possibility of habeas corpus relief. And they are just evading and outright ignoring judges that stand in their way.
Judges need to run our country!
Presidents should be dictators!
Remember when the judge was elected president last year and how nobody signed an executive order before.
Remember when judges stopped Biden from implementing his first student loan forgiveness program, and his OSHA COVID mandate, and you all didn't have a cow about "judges running the country"? Oh but wait, that's diffe(R)ent.
Are forgiving student loans and covid mandates article 2 powers?
Remember when judges stopped Biden from implementing his first student loan forgiveness program
You mean the one the FUCKING SUPREME COURT and not some district conman ruled unconstitutional, and Biden said "fuck it" and gave them the finger?
Yes, I do remember.
So, this response of yours illustrates two of your common tricks.
First, you are not representing the past accurately. You're trying to gaslight us all about what really happened with Biden's student loan forgiveness case. But this is the second part: this is an intentional misdirection strategy on your part, because you WANT to divert the conversation into relitigating the past. You deliberately lie because you cannot acknowledge that I'm right. Those court cases which stopped Biden's more egregious plans, they all started at the district court level and they worked their way up to SCOTUS. Just like in this case (albeit on a much more accelerated timetable). And again you never complained when the courts were slapping down Biden. Because you agreed with the courts. The complaint about "activist judges" or "judges running the country" is an empty hollow narrative.
"You're trying to gaslight us all about what really happened with Biden's student loan forgiveness case."
HOW, JEFFY. EXPLAIN YOUR ALLEGATION TO EVERYONE.
"this is an intentional misdirection strategy on your part, because you WANT to divert the conversation into relitigating the past. "
The past is the precedent, and you want to ignore that because it was not only pertinent but actually egregious.
Thank you for proving my point. This is your entire strategy, to get people to ignore the present topic and to instead focus on Biden. Because Trump is acting like an indefensible authoritarian dickhead, you would rather talk about anyone else and Biden is your favorite whipping post.
Every single one of those court cases that stopped Biden, that you applauded, started as district court cases that you never once complained about "judges running the country". Your complaint along these lines is hollow and self-serving. You ONLY complain about the judges because they are ruling against your team. Period.
HOW, JEFFY. EXPLAIN YOUR ALLEGATION TO EVERYONE.
Nope.
Are forgiving student loans and covid mandates article 2 powers?
You buying one, Lying Jeffy?
"These are gonna be a hit in every blue city."
https://x.com/ClownWorld_/status/1913379501670891955
"It is lawless behavior all around" to break-into the USA too.
If you gave even 1/2 the amount of care on breaking-in as you do breaking-out you wouldn't sound like such a "I want this" fool.
Look at that. Trump sneaked them over the border just like they sneaked themselves over the border .... but, but, but It's all Trumps FAULT! /s
They're not even trying to hide it anymore.
https://x.com/LauraLoomer/status/1913398583132356792
We were told the Trump admin was banning DEI.
. Now an anti-Trump, uppity black liberal who said “Donald Trump is the worst President ever” is now “collaborating” with the
@USTreasury
.
"They're"
Antisemite.
She was being sarcastic and mocking the Democrats, but that doesn't matter to Lying Jeffy and twisted narratives and his selective opprobrium.
Jeffy never once chastised his pals Misek and Buttplug for their antisemitism and anti-Black bigotry, but Loomer mocks Dem hypocrisy and watch out.
This is cool with Jeff. Never once did he complain:
Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 3 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Uncle Clarence has had his hand out for over 20 years.
GIMME DAT WHITIE MONEY!
Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 2 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Taking on Katanji Brown Jackson for lowest IQ affirmative action hire
Uncle Clarence a candidate.
Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 19 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Sandy, I had a genuine fear that a Senator Walker would be shucking and jiving us good liberty-loving Georgians every day.
Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
No, you’re a fucking snowflake who only gets offended when one of your Lawn Jockeys is criticized.
Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 28 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Groveling like a shoe-shine boy, Tim Scott humiliates himself for Fatass Donnie.
Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
How many little lawn jockeys are in your yard? I bet it looks like a scene from a Tarzan movie out there.
lol just weak. Of course you give the infinite benefit of the doubt to your team. And thanks for bringing up Buttplug. What Laura Loomer said reveals the same type of racism that you condemn Buttplug for. But of course you excuse the racism of your team. Gee I wonder why.
Notice Lying Jeffy doesn't bother to explain why he didn't criticize any of those posts.
Well we all know he's a raging hypocrite.
Because Lying Jeffy only opposes racism when he thinks he can use it as a smear.
Chemjeff's perfectly fine with Jew-hate and anti-Black racism when one of his cohorts is ranting against blacks and Jews who left the DNC plantation.
LOL you demonstrated in this very thread that you will defend racism from your team while you pretend to excoriate racism from anyone else. Laura Loomer's racism gets excused because she is on Team Trump. You're pathetic.
Jeffy, when did you stop fucking your sister?
Funny he hasn't responded to a single post of mine since his little psycho spaz out.
I recommend that Jesse, and everyone else who supports how Garcia has been treated by the government, be subjected to the same standard of due process that they defend for Garcia. If it's good enough for Garcia it should be good enough for you, right?
I suggest that the government should declare Jesse to be a member of a gang based on the testimony of an anonymous informant that Jesse has no opportunity to challenge or rebut.
I suggest that the government should later declare Jesse's "gang" to be a terrorist organization, thereby making Jesse an ex-post-facto terrorist in the eyes of the state even though the government never once proved Jesse committed any terrorist activity.
I then suggest Jesse should be rounded up and sent to a third world prison for life, because he is clearly a dangerous terrorist.
Again Jesse shouldn't have any recourse to challenge his imprisonment.
I further suggest that if Jesse's family should challenge his treatment in court, that the courts should offer no relief whatsoever because Jesse is in a foreign country and US courts have no power there. Oh well, too bad! Maybe Jesse should have thought of that before joining a terrorist organization! Right?
And finally if certain people continue to make a stink about it, I suggest that the government should dredge up every salacious detail of Jesse's life and plaster it all over the media, thereby condemning Jesse in the court of public opinion of what an awful terrible person he is who richly deserves his life imprisonment in a foreign gulag for terrorism. I mean, I am sure Jesse had a few speeding tickets, right? That proves the mens rea of sinister terrorist motivations!
Are forgiving student loans and covid mandates article 2 powers Lying Jeffy?
Remember that time Barack Obama blamed the Benghazi embassy attacks on a random guy who made a YouTube video that nobody had ever seen and immediately threw him in jail and Jeffy thought that was just fine?
Obama also killed an American teenager in a drone strike who had never been charged with any crimes. Which was also fine with Jeffy because reasons.
This entire “due process” narrative of Jeffy's employers is a bullshit ploy.
SCOTUS had ruled that illegal immigrants are due some limited rights under the Constitution including a limited exercising of Due Process, and this guy has had his due process through multiple appearances in court to argue his case, and when he was arrested by the PG cops in 2019 didn’t object to deportation at the time.
I wasn't here for Obama, but after watching Lying Jeffy throughout Biden's administration I would assume those would be his positions.
Which court again ruled that Garcia was to be sentenced to life in prison in a foreign gulag? Hmm?
He was under a deportation order, dork. What happens to him once he's deported is none of our business.
The courts in his home country El Salvador, where he committed many crimes
Garcia has zero criminal record in any country. Garcia left El Salvador when he was 16. This is just a lie.
Not according to the country who he's actually a citizen of, who stuck him where they put all evil thugs.
What crime has Garcia been charged with, in El Salvador?
The correct answer is that Garcia has not been charged with any crime in El Salvador, because that is the truth.
No court- yet.
Salvadoran courts are perfectly capable of deciding cases and controversies between its citizens and its government.
So what did Garcia do to justify life imprisonment in a gulag?
Around and around Lying Jeffy goes...
So what did Garcia do to justify liFE iMpriSonMEnT iN a gULaG?
Oh, your favorite illegal alien gang banger has been sentenced to "Life Imprisonment" and isn't just incarcerated while awaiting trial?
Do tell.
"Lying Jeffy" isn't a strong enough moniker for what you do here. We need to find something stronger.
Oh, so the US extradited Garcia? Extradition requires some type of formal charges pursuant to a treaty. What are these charges? What is the government of El Salvador charging Garcia with? Not even the government claims that they extradited Garcia. You are just making this up. STOP DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE. Trump sent Garcia to El Salvador to rot until his death, without any charges, on the flimsiest of legal bases. Trump did what you accuse leftists of doing on a daily basis, sending dissidents to gulags to rot, and you cannot admit it. You're currently in the denial phase as we can all see, but eventually you will come around to acceptance. Although no one here should be under any illusion that for you "acceptance" will mean that you will actually blame Trump for anything. Your version of "acceptance" will be to embrace the fascism that your team supports and to unreservedly support sending the 'unpersons' to their death. You will support this while unironically calling everyone else Nazis because that is who you are.
He's drinking margaritas with a congressman. Seems fine.
More to the point - What did Garcia do IN THE US to justify *the US government* sending him to life imprisonment in a Salvadoran gulag? And where was he arrested and charged for this crime? Where was his trial and what was the verdict?
Who's on first Lying Jeffy?
Ask Jeffy about the "life imprisonment" bit he's trying to push.
and when he was arrested by the PG cops in 2019 didn’t object to deportation at the time.
This is another manifestation of your tactics - deliberately introduce a lie in order to misdirect the conversation away from the topic that you cannot defend.
You know that Garcia never received any semblance of a "due process" to justify the treatment that he actually got. And so you slip this little nugget in to avoid having to discuss this.
Political revenge porn is more ugly than regular revenge porn, but this is just sad.
I'm not being hyperbolic when I call Lying Jeffy a psychopath.
I think Jeffy's still fucking his sister.
Maybe she’s just blowing him now?
If someone has incest but then feels bad about it the next day, is it still incest?
Jeffy's still fucking his sister.
Weird way to spell "mom".
So this is for all of you who claimed "what's the big deal, it's not like they are going to go after citizens..."
U.S.-born man held for ICE under Florida’s new anti-immigration law
https://floridaphoenix.com/2025/04/17/u-s-born-man-held-for-ice-under-floridas-new-anti-immigration-law/
But don't worry, they are only going after the wrong type of citizens, not the Real Muricans like you!
Oh my, judges make mistakes now?
However, the state prosecutor insisted the court lacked jurisdiction over Lopez-Gomez’s release because U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had formally asked the jail to hold him.
Radical individuals for nullification?
I was right, you are indeed anarach-adjacent.
You don't have to be an anarchist to recognize that some laws are simply unjust.
You mean like any laws that say we can't deport a hostile illegal alien without a criminal trial?
Also, another story of a man abducted by ICE and sent to the Salvadoran gulag, Merwil Gutiérrez
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/15/merwil-gutierrez-venezuelan-teen-deported-el-salvador
So, this guy had a pending asylum case (and was therefore legally allowed to be here while his case was pending), had no tattoos, coded or otherwise, and was not in a gang. The ICE officers KNEW that he was the wrong guy. And he was grabbed anyway.
Please, explain how this was justified.
I mean, we don't know if Merwil Gutierrez was a wife-beater or whether he skipped traffic court over an unpaid ticket. I'm sure when the right wing media's Eye of Sauron becomes focused on him, they will uncover something that is unsavory in his past. Because there is something unsavory in EVERYONE's past. Whatever kind of person Merwil Gutierrez is - or Kilmar Garcia, or Juan Lopez-Gomez - they don't deserve this type of treatment. Not without any **MEANINGFUL** due process or any reasonable chance for them to challenge the allegations leveled against them.
And it is just so sad and frustrating that those of us who are standing up for basic principles of due process, rights, and justice, have to fight so hard even here on a libertarian forum, on their behalf. It is in no conceivable way a libertarian position that the chief executive may rightfully imprison ANYONE for life without a trial and without any possibility of appeal. This is just very basic, basic stuff. No government, anywhere on earth, should ever have that type of power. It is just diametrically opposed to the entire libertarian philosophy. It would be like a Marxist suddenly saying that they support capitalism and private property rights. It's absurd.
Maybe you think Trump has good intentions, maybe you think he was merely given bad advice from his advisors, fine, whatever, but you can't support the result of what happened. It's just inconceivable.
Too bad. Another example why illegals should self deport. Get the message, it is not Biden/ Mayorkas welcoming committee. We are broke and tired of paying for it.
"Also, another story"
Didn't see this coming.
What's up with Garcia's case, Reason? I thought he was in such great danger that he couldn't be sent to El Salvador - yet here he is hanging out in a bar.
Would you like to trade places with him? After all, he's hanging out at the bar drinking margaritas! Right?
If someone has incest but then feels bad about it the next day, is it still incest?
If you ejaculate on, but not in, a child while she's being gang-raped, and tell the police you feel bad for doing it after, it's not as wrong.
What is Garcia being charged with, to justify life imprisonment in El Salvador? What is the crime that he supposedly committed? If you say "illegal entry to the US", then that does not justify sending him to a third-world gulag under any REASONABLE standard of justice. But you and your team are not reasonable on this topic, are you?
Are forgiving student loans and covid mandates article 2 powers?
When was he sentenced to life imprisonment? I would have expected that to make the news.
Yes. In my home country drinking at a bar with a congressman. Yes. I would be fine. What else do you want dumbass?
Also, maybe he now regrets the obvious bad decisions he has made (breaking the law, etc). I have made bad decisions in my youth, have learned from it and become a better person. Plenty of opportunities for him to get on a plane and self deport, but he did not. Too bad for him.
Education should not be a la carte. Parents can't pull kids out of classes whenever they get a wild hair that their imaginary fairy they worship might smite them if their kids learned that there are people different than them. If you don't like what your kids' school is teaching, pull 'em out and find another school. Or if you're afraid of the big bad world, home-school your kids to make them REALLY unprepared for the real world.
How many people do you know that were homeschooled?
My neighbors 14 year old son works as my assistant and is home schooled. He mows my yard and helps with household projects. Makes $10 an hour doing it. Did some construction projects running power equipment with me. Smart kid. His whole family is that way. Better prepared for the real world in my opinion.
"The Court will weigh religious opt-outs and charter school discrimination. But true educational freedom means funding students, not systems."
Parents should pay for their own kids' education, not the taxpayers especially since the US public school system is such a joke.
Unfortunately, no matter how the cases are decided, neither will get us to where we ultimately need to be for a free and equal society: money following children to whatever education they and their families choose.
I question this premise. Allowing "money" to follow children to "whatever education they and their families choose" is too vague to use as a premise without challenge.
What money? Well, taxpayer money presumably, since parents have always been very free to use their own money to educate their children in a wide variety of ways. How much taxpayer money? How much is necessary for each child in order to create a "free and equal" society? Especially when wealthy parents will always have more money available to educate their children than whatever voters are willing to support for the broader public. Even in the districts with the highest spending per pupil in the country, the money spent on public education per student is well below tuition at the elite private schools in those areas. (Quick search - NYC spending was reported to be $38k per pupil in 2023. That same year, the most expensive private schools had tuition upwards of $65k.)
Secondly, to truly be "free and equal", wouldn't the parents get to choose the school? "Yes, That's exactly the point!" I can hear the school choice advocates saying. But that isn't entirely true, as the schools also get to choose. Private schools can be highly selective over many different criteria on which students to accept. They can accept only students with a record of high achievement. They can accept only students with active parents. They can accept only students that don't have special educational needs. (Or, they can just not offer any special education services and let the parents self-select a different school.) They can accept only students that behave well. Even charter schools can be somewhat selective, and they often do have more strict discipline, requirements for parental involvement, and so on.
Parent choice in schools also doesn't overcome geography. Parents are practically limited to schools close enough to be able to get their kids to the school. Private and charter schools will always be able to select their student population somewhat by simply choosing where to have the school.
Finally, if taxpayer money is going to be used, what will be the accountability measures to ensure that the money is being well spent? This also ties into what data will be available for parents as they try to find the best school.
These are issues that I just don't see school choice advocates addressing. This article is about two specific cases before the SC, so I wasn't expecting this article to do so. But anyone that thinks that school choice might be a solution to the country's education problems should be looking for answers to these questions from school choice proponents.
Charter schools are, by law, public, but they are supposed to be free from many rules and regulations that govern traditional public schools. Because they are public schools, under the principle of separation of church and state, they have never been affiliated with any religion.
But there is a glaring problem with that: It discriminates on the basis of religion.
This is getting the point of the Establishment Clause wrong. The point of the EC is not to force the government to be unaffiliated with religion. The point is exactly the same as the Free Exercise Clause: to prevent a government that is aligned with a particular religion or set of religions from imposing those beliefs on others. It just accomplishes this in a different way: by making sure that the government can't be aligned with any particular religion or set of religions.
The Free Exercise Clause exists to protect individual religious belief and expression by directing the government to not violating individual rights. That does sound like the only thing needed to protect individual religious rights. But it isn't. Because a government that be guided by and act through specific religious traditions can favor those that follow those traditions in ways that don't obviously restrict the freedoms of those that don't. But it should be clear, given a little thought, that offering privileges to some groups of people, but only if they choose to follow the "approved" religion(s), is not respecting everyone's freedom to believe what they want.
A public school run by an explicitly religious organization is always going to favor parents and students that follow that religion. That is unavoidable. No public school should ever be allowed to do that.
It is in no way a compromise to rule that the parents are 100% in their rights
=============
As George Washington wrote in his famous letter to the Jews of Newport, Rhode Island, then a tiny minority in the country, in 1790:
"For happily the Government of the United States gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection shall demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support. ... Everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid."
=====================
Kagan is just utterly stupid to talk about parents opting out of math courses. Is she gay? does she have kids? There are parents, these are their children !!!!!