Libertarianism From the Ground Up
In Common Law Liberalism, legal scholar John Hasnas offers a new vision for a free society.

Common Law Liberalism: A New Theory of the Libertarian Society, by John Hasnas, Oxford University Press, 328 pages, $90
Arguments for libertarianism typically take two forms. Some libertarians base their creed on natural rights—the idea that each individual has an inborn right to self-ownership, or freedom from aggression, or whatever—and proceed to argue that only a libertarian political regime is compatible with those rights. Others take a consequentialist approach, claiming libertarianism is the best system because it produces the best results, defined according to some philosophical conception of the good.
Libertarians have been making these arguments for the last 170 years or so, and by this point the weak spots are fairly well known. As a result, the arguments on both sides have the character of the opening moves in a chess game: It's all by the book.
Once in a while, however, an argument opens a genuinely different path. John Hasnas, a legal scholar at Georgetown University, has been clearing such a path for a while now, and the chapters in his new book, Common Law Liberalism, have all been previously published elsewhere. But brought together in one volume, these essays set forth an intriguing, novel, and highly promising approach to thinking about a free society.
The book's core idea, to put a sophisticated argument rather crudely, is that the philosophers have screwed us all up. Philosophers, Hasnas argues, tend to put far too much stock in the construction of logically consistent systems of thought, proceeding from premise to conclusion in a neat, orderly sequence. Logic sets the standard, and if the world fails to live up to that standard, well, that's the world's problem, not ours.
For Hasnas, by contrast, thinking about politics begins not with a moral theory but with the actual conflicts people face when they go about the difficult business of living in a community together. Justice is not something first discerned by philosophical reason and then applied (by lesser minds) to settle particular disputes. Justice develops out of those disputes as an emergent phenomenon, often in ways that are neither foreseen nor intended by the people directly involved.
The test of a theory of justice, in this approach, is not logical consistency or completeness. To ask this of justice is to ask too much—and to ask more than is required. We do not need an airtight theory; we simply need rules that bring a dispute to an end and allow people to get on living together in peace.
This requirement is largely met, in Hasnas' view, by the Anglo-American common law. The common law serves as a mechanism for providing law without legislation—law, that is, without need for a monopolistic legislative body that attempts to anticipate and resolve all problems in advance and from afar. It embodies both a Hayekian openness to dispersed, local knowledge and a Burkean respect for the wisdom of evolved tradition.
The conservative elements of Hasnas' approach should not blind us to its radicalism. Hasnas does not merely want to claim that the common law is better, in some respects, than legislation. He thinks society can do without legislation altogether. From there, Hasnas claims, it is a short—even obvious!—step to the conclusion that society can do just fine without the state itself. Hasnas' libertarianism is common-law anarchism.
There are interesting parallels between Hasnas' work and other recent developments in classical liberal political philosophy. "Public reason liberalism," especially as developed by the late philosopher Gerald Gaus, similarly eschews the dream of convergence upon a single comprehensive political ideal around which society might be molded. The aim of liberalism, according to Gaus, is to figure out how people with deep and enduring disagreements might nevertheless find a way of endorsing a shared political order. Gaus' view, however, involves a kind of idealization that Hasnas presumably would reject. For Gaus, what matters is not merely what people happen to agree to, but what they would agree to under suitably defined circumstances. After all, the agreements that actually get made, or the rules that develop out of actual legal decisions, might be marred by injustice or ignorance, in which case we might not want to take them as authoritative.
Closer to Hasnas' position is the view laid out by the philosopher David Schmidtz in his recent book Living Together. Schmidtz, like Hasnas, begins by rejecting the view that political philosophy ought to be subservient to moral theory. Instead he argues that justice should be thought of as a kind of traffic management. The point of an institution like property rights, in this view, is not to instantiate some timeless axiom of self-ownership. It is to avoid conflict by determining who has the right of way in a particular situation. We can achieve consensus about that, even if we cannot achieve consensus about the bigger philosophical question of who has the superior destination.
So Hasnas is not treading alone on his path. He stands out, however, in labeling his view "anarchist." Or even, for that matter, calling it "libertarian"—a label that different people use in different ways, but which generally picks out a fairly radical political position that countenances, at most, a minimal state devoted to the protection of person and property.
How much radicalism can one really get out of a commitment to the common law? Libertarians can find much to admire in the common law's general respect for property, contract, and individual autonomy. What they will not find is the absolutism that is characteristic of the libertarian creed. The common law is full of exceptions to broader rules, as in Ploof v. Putnam, a 1908 Vermont Supreme Court case involving a family that was caught up in a storm while sailing and took refuge on the defendant's dock. The defendant cut the boat loose, leading to the destruction of the boat and injury to the family. The family sued and won. Property rights are great, but according to the common law they have limits.
So too with contracts, individual autonomy, and the other great principles of classical liberalism. The common law establishes a heavy presumption in favor of these principles. But the exceptions are many. Contracts that are deemed to be unfairly one-sided may be held unconscionable and unenforceable. Pollution from a factory that makes a neighbor ill may be justified based on a kind of cost-benefit analysis. Under the common law, property rights and contracts are useful tools for enabling people to live together in peace and prosperity. But as with all tools, their value is limited and context-specific.
Hasnas appears to embrace many of these exceptions. This strikes me as an eminently sensible move. It does not strike me as strictly libertarian, but that is perfectly fine with me. Hasnas is probably right that libertarian thought has been too much guided by a somewhat simplistic and overly abstract philosophy. By seeking to ground his defense of a free society in the evolved tradition of common law, Hasnas has gone a long way toward revising and revitalizing libertarian theory. But the same specificity that gives the common law its wisdom and its concrete grounding also serves to undermine many of the grand, universalizing pretensions of libertarianism. It means less Robert Nozick, more Friedrich Hayek. Less John Locke, more David Hume. A more modest, more moderate, and more mature form of classical liberalism.
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$90 for this book?!??! The common law should forbid such things!!!
(Unless Spermy Daniels cums along with the book at no extra charge.)
Yes, government should control prices.
Well, Government Almighty PRETENDS to care about sexual equality, and then does a PISS-POOR, PUSSY-POOR job of actually cuntrolling prices in a fair manure!!! Look at Hooker Hulk Hogan v/s Spermy Daniels, for example!!! Skanky Ho Hooker Hulk Hogan's rewards for being a Skanky Ho were almost THREE odors of magnitude and magshitude higher than twat was awarded to Spermy Daniels!!!
For full details, see below...
See http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/18/florida-jury-awards-115-million-to-hulk# Florida Jury Awards $115 Million to Hulk Hogan in His Gawker Lawsuit… About Hooker Hulk Hogan… “Hooker Hulk” gets $115 MILLION, v/s “Spermy Daniels” gets only $130 K, for each of them being skanky hos. The MALE skanky ho gets almost THREE odors of magnitude more money!!! How is THAT for sexual equality?!
But what gets my bowels in an uproar even more, is that through the courts and policemen enforcing court orders and/or contracts here in these kinds of cases, Government Almighty is the Pimp Daddy and hit-man enforcer of it all! And then they go and jail $50 and $100 poor hookers, to “protect us from trafficking in sex slaves”.
If Government Almighty is going to be the Big Pimp Daddy and hit-man enforcer, for the rich and famous, then could they PLEASE stop being hypocrites, and stop punishing the “little people” for doing the same things!??!
SIDE-BAND SNIDE COMMENT:
As a socio-economic and sexual-political experiment, I think someone should get Hooker Hulk Hogan to fuck Spermy Daniels. Which of the two would owe how much money, to the other?
MAIN COMMENT:
I think I have fingered out WHY does Government Almighty play Big Pimp Daddy to the rich and famous, while punishing the dirt-poor hookers?! When $130 k or $115 million gets thrown around, Government Almighty gets to tax the payment and the lawyers, and grab at least 1/3 of it. Easy-peasy on the big transactions… When a small-time hooker turns a trick “under the table” (a kinky place to do it!), it is MUCH harder to collect! Especially if he or she is paid in smack or crack or Ripple wine…
I am UTTERLY crushed to have fingered out that Government Almighty (which claims to LOVE me and want to PROTECT me from sleazy sex), is actually just wanting to line its own wallet!!!
Unread
Shit's a good idea SNOT to try to look at "Don't look at me! ", 'cause shit is SOOOO small and small-minded that shit's next to impussible to see anyway!
(If'n ye get out your microscope and DO get a look-see, shit is damned ugly and scary to boot!)
Unread.
Dlam is a reincarnated retarded bulldog that thinks shouting “Ideas!” is clever.
Dlam has become delaminated!!! Dlam has become undone!!! Is falling apart!
Small minds talk about people.
Dlam is a reincarnated retarded bulldog
Self-awareness isn't a Sarcasmic superpower.
Also loves to use hitleresque dehumanizing language. Rules for thee not for sarc.
It is weird how alcoholics are such big hypocrites.
Wonder if he scratches his arms and neck waiting for the fix of being embarrassed here.
Sarc gets two hold two different sets of standards which is why he is so principled.
Ideas, Strawcasmic?
Gross. Can I pay extra to get the Stormy free edition?
Buy the discounted combo, re-sell Spermy Daniels on the side! A certain POTUS will buy!
Humpty Dumpty Trumpty Stormy Daniels Section 230 AAAARRRRRGGHHHHH
This author is not serious.
And anarchy leads to gangs, and gangs become government.
I love the idea of anarchy -- in a world of angels. I believe his idea of a State without legislation is possible and preferable in a world without angels -- my own Chartertopia has that in practice. But there is a difference between no legislation and no State.
I first encountered this book in a review at mises.org (https://mises.org/friday-philosophy/major-contribution-libertarian-social-thinking) and had the same thought as above -- $67.49 for an eBook?!? Not a chance. The guy is not serious if he thinks his philosophy eBook is worth $67.49.
The culture of liberty has to be nearly universal for this to work. It doesn't take much to ruin that.
I used to think my Chartertopia, with its own version of no legislation, was a typical anarchist wet dream, even though it does have a State. But looking at the list of "a long train of abuses and usurpations" in the Declaration of Independence, it's hard to escape the conclusion that our modern government is far worse than anything wrought by George III.
I also thought about Hitler's soldiers. He came to power in 1933 after a decade of street battles between Nazis and Communists, hyperinflation, and generally terrible conditions. 6 years later, the soldiers who had been recently drafted to fight his wars had known nothing but relative peace and prosperity; any memories before age 12 were of massive unrest. By the end of the war, recent conscripts knew only that Germany had been stabbed in the back and cheated out of her just rewards in WW I by the despicable Jewish vermin (Hi, Misek!).
Today there's an entire generation scared to death of climate change and the Handmaid's Tale.
I believe that a legislation-less State would work, once it had been established for five years and people saw it work. But getting those first five years -- aye, there's the rub.
So we will muddle through, eventually the system will collapse, but the question is, which system will collapse first and warn the others to reform -- the US, the EU, or China? Argentina provides a small warning and guiding light, and as much as I hope Trump can right the US ship before it founders, I think the Deep State will continue mostly unchecked. The only real hope is that the EU breaks apart or that Xi dies and China reforms itself, and the US finally gets the message.
Fortunately, the US is still the generally freest country on Earth and least likely to be first to collapse. But that also means it is the least likely to take the hint and reform, even if the others do collapse.
(By collapse, I don't mean revolution and chaos. I mean wake up, smell the roses, and shed their over-regulated nanny state. Deng after Mao, Gorbachev and Yeltsin.)
And anarchy leads to gangs, and gangs become government.
Unfortunately, yes. I've been saying this to anarchocapitalists for years.
But there is a difference between no legislation and no State.
Anarchy comes from "an" and "archon" with "an" meaning "no" and "archon" meaning ruler. So it doesn't mean no rules. It means no powerful state to enforce them.
In my heart I'm an anarchist, but I know human nature won't let it happen. There will always be a gang of men with the last word in violence who use that as license to steal. As Franklin said, you can't escape death and taxes.
You're not into self awareness at all, are you?
It is definitely not one of his strengths.
Translation: how dare he contradict the narrative we made up about him!
Being retarded isn't necessarily contradicting narratives.
Arnychist has since prehistory meant violent communist. Anarchists clearly do NOT want a limited government that protects individual citizens against theft, fraud and violence. That's the important part.
"And anarchy leads to gangs, and gangs become government."
Yes, THIS is why anarchism doesn't work (in a non-Angelic world, as you say). Kudos! Winner, winner, chicken dinner! (Or maybe leftover turkey dinner at this moment in time.)
Common law itself runs into problems which lead to States and legislation. Suppose a judge decides that stealing a chicken requires restitution to buy a replacement. But who picks judges? What if a different judge decides that restitution should include interest from time of crime to time of payback? What if a third judge uses a different interest rate? What if a non-angelic, ie corrupt, judge devalues the value of the chicken -- how does one appeal a corrupt or just bad decision under pure common law? Who coordinates all this different judge-discovered common law to be similar all over? Sure one point of common law is to be common throughout the realm!
All these lead to appeals courts, precedent, and legislation (whether by a legislature or kingly diktat) and the existence of gangs known as States.
I'd buy the eBook if it were under $10. Both reviews make me curious about what they don't mention -- the problems I have just listed. Does the book neglect them too?
$67.49 is too damned high.
Common law itself runs into problems which lead to States and legislation. Suppose a judge decides that stealing a chicken requires restitution to buy a replacement. But who picks judges? What if a different judge decides that restitution should include interest from time of crime to time of payback? What if a third judge uses a different interest rate? What if a non-angelic, ie corrupt, judge devalues the value of the chicken -- how does one appeal a corrupt or just bad decision under pure common law? Who coordinates all this different judge-discovered common law to be similar all over? Sure one point of common law is to be common throughout the realm!
All these lead to appeals courts, precedent, and legislation (whether by a legislature or kingly diktat) and the existence of gangs known as States.
This brings to mind a historical precedent from Prussia, the Miller Arnold case.
The Arnolds operated a water-spun grain mill. Their lease on the mill and the land was owed to a noble estate requiring an annual payment of some amount of grain and coins, so the mill is their livelihood.
Some other noble upstream decided he wanted to divert water to build a carp pond, so he dammed the stream and reduce the water flow to near non-existent, and the mill could no longer operate. The family couldn't process the grain anymore so they fell behind on their lease payments. Their landlord then took them to court for refusal to pay their lease, seized their cows, threw the miller in prison. Then the court foreclosed the mill and auctioned it off, and the noble who had dammed the river upstream purchased it.
So this is a case of nobility screwing over the commoners, right? A guy upstream causes a problem for people downstream, gets them thrown in jail, and benefits from it. Well, they petitioned a higher court of appeals to try to sue the guy who dammed their stream in the first place. The court ruled and said, "Everything is in accordance with the law." A petition reached Frederick II (Frederick the Great), and he ordered his supreme court to review the case. The Supreme Court went over the case and informed him, "Yes, everything has been properly decided according to law."
So Frederick realizes there's a major injustice happening here. He's the King, after all. He unilaterally uses his ultimate executive power to reverse the decision of the courts. When his Minister of Justice protests, he's immediately sacked. Half the Supreme Court was immediately sacked. The lower judges who made the initial rulings were thrown in prison.
Now here's the reason I find this an interesting thought experiment: This is the act of a tyrant exercising supreme power in defiance of the existing law. He even imprisoned people who were simply operating within the law as it existed. He broke the tradition of an independent judiciary that is accountable to the law and not to a king, so many historians view this as an incredible breach of power. His successor ended up pardoning all the imprisoned judges, returning them to their offices, and paying restitution for their incarceration. Ruling for a commoner against two separate noblemen caused a stir of political issues as well. Yet it seems from a more modern perspective that Frederick was taking a strong stance in defense of the rights of the individual while it might have been a gross abuse of power.
You just described property taxes in coastal or alpine mountain state, lakefront areas. And/or the idea behind prop 13 in California.
The actual facts of the case are less interesting to me than the dilemma of power as it pertains to libertarians.
Having a tyrant unconstrained by law or precedent is a bad thing, generally. At any time, with no need for any justification, he can just intervene to deliver his desired outcome.
At the same time, however, someone who wields power with an interest in liberty and rights is extremely useful. If the law is unwieldy or if precedent works against the interest of justice, someone who works in the interest of justice is ideal. The law is ultimately a poor shield against entrenched power. So having in power who is interested in liberty is ideal if there's an injustice within your system.
It raises the question of what is preferable. Is it better to have a constrained executive with an independent judiciary that can get things wrong? Or a tyrant who is invested in liberty and individual rights, but has very few constraints on his power?
The obvious best is as decentralized as possible, with the mugwump being as unsupreme as possible.
It's hard to see how Hasnas' society "can do just fine without the State itself" when common law courts will exist with a monopoly on resolving disputes. That is not gangs arising from anarchy becoming government. But no doubt there will be corrupt judges who can be bribed, which will lead to oversight of courts.
And how will differences in common law precedents be handled: will there be different rules in different jurisdictions, or will a higher court decide which jurisdictions' precedent setting ruling is best?
Seems self-evident we need to agree to a method to resolve disputes and ensure justice regarding harms to our lives, our liberty and our pursuit of happiness. Which our founders did, though that hasn't stopped corrupt politicians from taking our liberties from us, or just more of the fruits of our labor.
Incorrect. For common law to function you must have... drum roll please... scholars of law, ergo judges, who are both recognized as competent and communally authorized to be decisors or fact and adjudicators or precedent. As such, the term "anarchy," while both punchy and catchy, isn't wholly accurate. There is no such thing as common law anarchism because law, by its very definition, is a mechanism of social order that requires adjudication.
I love the idea of government - in a world of angels. 🙂
This is either a bad summary or a sloppy argument crafted in an intellectually pretentious manner. The initial dichotomy doesn't describe positions that are at odds. I trailed off and skimmed the rest, but it has the hallmarks of horseshoe theory and advocating the perfect soviet man.
I think libertarians split differently. One side is hyperfocused on freedom to engage in their personal vices. I'll call them libertines. Their positions amount to advocacy fir deviant, destructive behavior divorced from any sense of personal or societal responsibility.
The other side is more classically liberal. They advocate for self-sufficiency and usually follow that with wanting to build a society and legal structure that allows the greatest freedom with the least conflict. To me it looks like he ascribes more to the former than the latter.
You might want to read the mises.org review I mentioned just above. It's a terrible review, more of the reviewer's own ideas than an actual review, but does give a different view of the same book. Neither makes me want to spend $67.49 to find out what the reviewers and/or author leave out.
Thanks for the link. It looks like the historical perspective in the book is at least interesting, but the author gets lost in actually applying the things learned into a workable theory or system. Between the two reviews, this one takes a much more progressive interpretation.
Libertines believe the greatest freedom is freedom from responsibility.
Those two sides are not at all mutually exclusive. Libertarianism accepts libertines as long as they don’t harm others. Conservatives are Trumpians on the other hand would look away if someone went around murdering libertines and call anyone who would speak up a leftist.
The problem is, you (and Jeffy) don't seem to understand that libertines are harming people here, and that it is indeed the libertines (like you) who would look away (or even cheer) if someone murdered a so-called "Trumpista".
Butt shit's OK if the Trumpistas and Trumpanzees try to "Hang Mike Pence"!!!
Arguments for libertarianism typically take two forms. Some libertarians base their creed on natural rights...
I would say natural rights libertarians are a vanishing breed. By the 1990's libertarians recognized that the philosophy stood no chance against socialism and progressivism in the marketplace of ideas. So Rothbard et al pivoted to collectivism/populism in an effort to build acceptance in the body politic. But success in the political arena requires a healthy dose of nationalism, which clashes directly with natural rights.
As a result, natural rights have been largely abandoned by libertarians for the NAP (ignoring the fact that the moral foundations of the Principle are the natural rights themselves). This allows a libertarian to support those natural rights accepted by their government while discarding the rest. Freedom of Movement can't be supported because National Borders. Freedom of Association can't be supported because Think of the Children. Free markets can't be supported because Not Fair. Individual sovereignty can't be acknowledged because Drugs r Bad, or Suicide is Bad, or The Country Needs You.
Natural rights are a revolutionary belief, and there's no place for revolution when you're desperate to be part of the status quo.
That's a lot of bullshit around open borders lol.
Freedom of movement can't happen because of the welfare state that people like you support. You believe in takings from hundreds of millions to supports the globe.
Most of us don't care about immigration if there was no welfare. But your side supports the harm to hundreds of millions to support the few. You don't believe in actual freedom, it is your fake dressing of libertarianism around Marxism. It is why your views are found on marxist.org and jacobin.
https://jacobin.com/2013/03/the-case-for-open-borders
https://marxist.com/why-marxists-oppose-immigration-controls.htm
Until you address all the harm driven by your preferred policies on others, you're simply parroting Marxist ideology.
Non-workers of the world unite!
"That's a lot of bullshit"
It's Shrike sockpuppeting. I never expected anything else.
Because Jesse is very dumb and dishonest, he cannot understand why (1) different people can support similar ideas for very different reasons, and (2) the consequentalist version of 'liberty' that he supports will very easily bite him in the ass once the shoe is on the other foot.
The argument of "We can't have the liberty of X because of the collateral damage that we think that it causes" is exactly the same if X is "freedom of association" or "freedom to own a gun". Jesse of course supports the former and opposes the latter, but because he is stupid he will argue whichever way produces the results that he likes.
This one smuggles in the brainwashed faith that moral means altruist collectivism, rather than a values-based ethical code to guide choices and actions. But the observation that Murry Rottbutt smuggled communist anarchism in as "true" libertarianism is a sad fact that fatally damaged the party by 1976 and helped Reagan republicans smuggle in Christian National Socialism with equal dishonesty.
This entire review sounds like an advocating of mob rule culture wars.
Closer to Hasnas' position is the view laid out by the philosopher David Schmidtz in his recent book Living Together. Schmidtz, like Hasnas, begins by rejecting the view that political philosophy ought to be subservient to moral theory. Instead he argues that justice should be thought of as a kind of traffic management. The point of an institution like property rights, in this view, is not to instantiate some timeless axiom of self-ownership. It is to avoid conflict by determining who has the right of way in a particular situation. We can achieve consensus about that, even if we cannot achieve consensus about the bigger philosophical question of who has the superior destination.
And earlier he objects to known equally applied laws.
This isnt libertarianism. He seemingly refers to mob determined rationalization of who is right and even seemingly removes property rights and individualism.
This read is literally collectivism with a sheep's cloth of libertarianism. Of course he is from Georgetown.
But he’s fun at cocktail parties!
He rejects a system grounded in morality and yet describes one that must incorporate it.
WWIII watch canceled, Zelensky has reached bargaining.
Nope. He is demanding entry into NATO which would kick off ww3.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/zelenskyy-offers-end-hot-phase-war-exchange-nato-membership
Zely won’t enjoy the actual ending to this situation.
Arguments for libertarianism typically take two forms. Some libertarians base their creed on natural rights—the idea that each individual has an inborn right to self-ownership, or freedom from aggression, or whatever—and proceed to argue that only a libertarian political regime is compatible with those rights. Others take a consequentialist approach, claiming libertarianism is the best system because it produces the best results, defined according to some philosophical conception of the good.
Where's the Chemjeff version? Where libertarianism is freedom from responsibility, choice and the travails of ownership, and the hoi polli can leave their worries and fears in the hands of capable top men who will ensure their happiness and that they have most delicious bug-based meals in their pod.
Jeffs is individual freedom until the moment you don't voluntarily do what he wants.
You always have freedom of choice in Jeffertarianism, you can do what the government wants or you can face the consequences.
Nope, that is your team's version. Trumpertopia is where a powerful state creates a walled garden of paradise. Top Men selects who is most worthy to enter this paradise, and Top Men rig the rules to make sure only the most moral people of Trumpertopia get real liberty. If you are a straight white rural Christian 'real Murican' then you deserve outsized influence in deciding how the paradise should be run. But if you are an illegal immigrant, a tranny, an urban progressive, all you get is a boot to the head. Only those with the right moral character deserve to rule, all others can go to hell. That is Trumpertopia.
Walled garden? Paradise? Top men? Rigged rules? Moral superiority? Selective entry? Rule over the peasants?
You realize you just described the Democratic fantasy, right, fucktard?
Wait, you mean both teams can have fantasies of an all-powerful state caring for its
childrencitizens?The Team Blue fantasy of a walled garden is more like a perpetual residential college campus experience. Let the government take care of all of the messy details of daily life, like housing and food and health care, while the citizens can do what they really want to do, like create works of art or get drunk every night.
The Team Red fantasy of a walled garden is more like the Garden of Eden - you can do whatever you want, unless you anger
GodGovernment with your wicked immorality. In that case, you get cast out as the horrible person that you are.Politics must have been so much harder before World War II, when you couldn't just accuse your opponent of being a Nazi. In fact, that's probably why Hitler took power, because nobody was able to warn people he would become the next Hitler.
There weren’t any game show hosts to elect either.
Yes, we should only elect war heroes , peanut farmers, nuclear engineers, movie stars, and farmers. Normal political types.
Sarcasmic feels that if you're not a career politician who made your fortune insider trading then you have no business being president. He's very principled, just ask him.
We must trust in corrupt institutions. Just ask him. If he denies I'll post the comment.
Step 1: support a progressive candidate like Obama.
Step 2: follow the current thing being pushed for by progressives.
Step 3: go all-in with identity politics where any opposition can be labeled racist, phobic, etc.
Step 4: come in the rear during the actual election.
The common law is full of exceptions to broader rules, as in Ploof v. Putnam, a 1908 Vermont Supreme Court case involving a family that was caught up in a storm while sailing and took refuge on the defendant's dock. The defendant cut the boat loose, leading to the destruction of the boat and injury to the family. The family sued and won. Property rights are great, but according to the common law they have limits.
My dock, my choice.
Final episode of Seinfeld covered this.
This is the type of asshole who supports a 1.5B judgement over mean words with Alex Jones or 150M judgement over mean words from Giulliani. The type who would support authoritarianism from "common law."
Philosophers, Hasnas argues, tend to put far too much stock in the construction of logically consistent systems of thought, proceeding from premise to conclusion in a neat, orderly sequence. Logic sets the standard, and if the world fails to live up to that standard, well, that's the world's problem, not ours.
I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who argues that trying to be logically consistent is the wrong path. That's basically a gateway into identitarian double standards: "It's okay for these people but not okay for these people." Or even, "It's different when THEY do it because they have pure motives."
No, sorry, sounds like pseudo-intellectual bullshit to me. It's much better when you work off of a core principle like self ownership and inherent rights because you can then weigh the conflicts of rights. If you're not worried about being logically consistent, you might just come up with something that is politically expedient in the moment. Perhaps people really ARE angry at the Jews and their presence in society is causing massive disruptions to the peaceful order. For their own safety, we should just take them out, give them some nice tents to live in. They'll be safer over there, and the rest of society can live in peace. We'll even hire some guards for their little camp to ensure all the Jews are safe where they are. It's the best decision to keep society operating smoothly, after all.
And Common Law isn't going to save you from that. Judges in the Third Reich were constantly bending over backwards to legally justify the ends of the regime, even when it violated the law.
Yes. If it isn't logically consistent then what are you doing in the first place beyond making things up that feel good in the moment.
When you've given up the idea that a thing should be logically consistent you've given up. Sure, the 'real world' should be considered but at the same time if you are untethered from any ethos you are untethered from any notion of justice.
Walter Sobchak: "Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
Liberty is more than some theoretical philosophical discussion. The arguments for liberty involving natural rights and mutually beneficial exchange are solid and I support them wholeheartedly.
But liberty is also a discussion about how to make people more free, right now. And I believe that borders are a necessary tool to do that. Not because I'm necessarily against the freedom of movement, but because it's not like we suddenly have it without borders. The borders at least give us some domain where we have the power to protect liberties like that and others.
The ideal libertarian government is there to protect our liberties from being stomped on by people who don't give a damn about them. Which at the moment is most of the rest of the world's governments (including our own).
You wanna travel from Hawaii to Maine? Have a safe trip. You want to go from Venezuela to Colorado, well I'm afraid you're gonna have to answer a few questions because we wouldn't be able to defend all of our liberties otherwise.
How are your liberties harmed when someone without papers quietly works a job (and pays income tax), rents a home (and pays property tax), and buys groceries (and pays sales tax) while occasionally sending money to the family back home? I would argue not at all. And that's what the vast majority of illegal immigrants do. Yes there are exceptions. Some are criminals and some don't want to work. But the same could be said of people who were born here.
Because, Sarc...
1. They are being paid under the table - no income tax collected there.
2. They are getting food stamps to pay for groceries. If you use food stamps, you don't pay sales taxes.
3. They are getting a subsidy that gets paid to the landlord, most likely directly, out of you hard-earned money that you had to fork over for taxes and they don't.
4. The money going back home is money removed from our economy.
Are you retarded or something?
http://reason.com/blog/2018/01/21/government-shutdown-broken-budget-trump#comment
The illegal humans are paying for your and my Social Security paychecks when we retire, is the actual facts. They pay in, but have virtual zero chance of getting paid back. See…
See "The Truth About Undocumented Immigrants and Taxes" (in quotes) in your Google search window will take you straight there, hit number one... AKA http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
But, like Dark Ages believers in “Witches are Evil and are causing ALL the Bad Things”, I know that no number of web sites or facts or ANYTHING is going to change your mind, because you HATE the Illegal Humans! And humans never landed on the moon, either, because that’s what I choose to believe… All the FACTS can go to Hell!!!!
What are you going to do when all the winning starts, Shillsy?
Hang Mike Pence? Will THAT evil & stupid shit get me "in" with the Kool Kids, Trumpanzees, and Desperadoes, and their political violence?
Shill much, motherfucker?
Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!
So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…
Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:
Hi Fantastically Talented Author:
Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.
At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.
Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .
Thank You! -Reason Staff
Leftist filth, like Sarc and Pedo Jeffy, hate America and put zero value on citizenship.
Ackshully, many are fugitives from religious conservative laws. Every draft dodger or weed dealer who fled to Canada was/is a "criminal" because slavery and prohibitionism are legal by altruist collectivist lights. Just so, a large fraction fleeing Monroe-doctrine control of Latin America by the DEA and SOCOM are fleeing the exact same collectivist enactments Johnson, Nixon and other looters fastened onto Americans. Prohibition has impoverished them exactly like it did America. Mystical prohibitionism is NOT libertarian.
"The ideal libertarian government is there to protect our liberties from being stomped on by people who don't give a damn about them. Which at the moment is most of the rest of the world's governments (including our own)."
THANK YOU!
But liberty is also a discussion about how to make people more free, right now. And I believe that borders are a necessary tool to do that. Not because I'm necessarily against the freedom of movement, but because it's not like we suddenly have it without borders. The borders at least give us some domain where we have the power to protect liberties like that and others.
The question isn't whether there should or shouldn't be borders. Very few people actually want no borders. The real question is, what do the borders actually represent? Borders are absolutely a necessary tool to delineate the extent of a government's jurisdiction. Absolutely. But should they represent more than that? Many here want borders to represent not just the extent of jurisdiction, but walls to prevent the free movement of people. I think that goes too far.
And I also agree that libertarianism, on an empirical level, must provide some benefit that is plainly obvious to all, otherwise it is just a pointless intellectual exercise. You say you want to make people more free right now? Let's suppose we got rid of the law that required government permission in order to have a legal job in this country. Would that make more people more free, right now? No more onerous regulations on all businesses requiring them to prove that their workers are all legal residents. No more workplace raids where government jackboots harass all the employees of a company, even the legal residents. No more tax money to fund all of that. I would argue that this one change would definitely make more people more free right now. What is the argument that keeping this law would make more people more free?
The ideal libertarian government is there to protect our liberties from being stomped on by people who don't give a damn about them. Which at the moment is most of the rest of the world's governments (including our own).
You wanna travel from Hawaii to Maine? Have a safe trip. You want to go from Venezuela to Colorado, well I'm afraid you're gonna have to answer a few questions because we wouldn't be able to defend all of our liberties otherwise.
Well, this is a little bit of a bait and switch here. I agree that most governments don't really care about liberty for its own sake, since their very nature is coercive. But most people do care about liberty, at least on a pragmatic level. We can see this empirically by looking at migration trends. No one wants to migrate TO Venezuela or Iran or Haiti. The migration is the reverse - people want to migrate from places where they are less free, to places where they are more free. Is it because they have read Rothbard and Hayek and Mises? Probably not. It's mostly because they desire a better quality of life for themselves and their families, and they can't get that while living in a shithole country.
You wanna travel from Hawaii to Maine? Have a safe trip. You want to go from Venezuela to Colorado, well I'm afraid you're gonna have to answer a few questions because we wouldn't be able to defend all of our liberties otherwise.
Notably, if you want to travel from Colorado to Venezuela you'll also need to answer questions upon entering Venezuela. The idea that borders shouldn't exist is code for American borders shouldn't exist, but every other nation is allowed to continue having theirs.
This justifies eternal war with everyone in pursuit of 'no borders' since a nation that spans the globe is the most likely vector for achieving no national borders anywhere. It's laughable since in this light the NAZI were pro-open borders too, just in the opposite direction where every other nations borders were 'suggestions'.
Advocating for just one country to be borderless is advocating for the destruction of that nation. It's one of the responsibilities of any national government to defend borders for a variety of reasons. If they can't or won't do that, the nation will be taken over by someone else who will.
The borders of Anarchotopia will be marked with stakes bearing the severed heads of consequentialists.
Doesn't what has happened in the UK pretty much demonstrated that common law doesn't provide any protection?
No free speech.
Two tier policing. If you are a leftist or a Muslim you can do whatever you want. Violence? Threats? Rape? Okay. If you object to that, you get arrested and imprisoned for hate crimes.
The absolute madman. He really did it.
BREAKING: Kash Patel named FBI Director
Pretty sure the FBI and CIA have to launch another coup before January. They have no more options left.
FLASHBACK: Trump’s FBI Director Kash Patel calls for immediate declassification of Epstein client list:
“Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.”
Can't wait, I'll bet a bunch more celebrities leave the country next week...
It is a good pick. Love how he said he would shut down the D.C. FBI headquarters and ship all agents to cities outside D.C.
This Diddy business might snare dozens more elite democrats. We should take the opportunity to destroy as many as possible.
May end up being a shortage or wood chippers.
So this might become a real boon for woodchipper manufacturers.
They will log some impressive sales. They may be able to branch out into other products.
Are there any domestic wood chipper manufacturers left?
Vermeer. Good Iowa
company. May want to look at investing in them.
"This Diddy business might snare dozens more elite democrats. We should take the opportunity to destroy as many as possible."
It'd be fine by me if some Rs went with them.
Those files have either already been destroyed or are being done so now.
Pretty doubtful all of the copies are gone. You could do that when there was an original and a carbon copy; not so much by now.
Probably should have been obvious earlier, but Trump's first time in office made it abundantly clear that the swamp was VERY "swampy", and it is going to take more than Trump's term to make a difference. The Rs ought to be searching for someone capable of carrying on the work; it MUST be done if we are to regain 'a nation of laws' status.
I like the emphasis on 'common law'. But 'common law anarchism' is an oxymoron. 'Common law anarchism' is the same as 'warlord anarchism' where the warlord decides what the 'common law' is. That is neither just nor libertarian.
Fuck off and die, lefty shitpile.
Say. Here's a thought.
Maybe the US Constitution has nothing wrong with it and it's the constant "trying to re-invent the wheel"/(re-define it) that *IS* the very problem.
The USA *already* has a definition. It's the lack of support for a USA by creative ideas of Gov-Gun 'armed-theft' selfishness that is trashing the USA.
The largest problem with libertarianism is the unrealistic expectation that waiting for the "perfect" is ever going to occur. A lot of libertarians are unwilling to accept an small incremental improvements in favor holding out for the "Perfect". The goal of the Libertarian party should be to promote libertarian ideas where possible. This could be through running candidates, or even supporting candidates from other parties in exchange for some concessions. This is how smaller third parties gain power in other countries and one you have enough power, you can even get Libertarians in a cabinet position. I don't know if I would say that RFK JR is a typical libertarian, but technically he is a member of the Libertarian party. There are other members of Trump's proposed office holders that have a degree of libertarianism. This is more than in the Biden regime which is a good thing, but not "perfect". The job of the Libertarian party is to praise Trump when he does good things and scold him when he does bad things. The job is not to oppose everything that Trump does simply because he is from a different party. The carrot and stick is a more realistic approach to gaining enough power to promote libertarianism. We do have some limited power, but for some reason we fail to use what little power we have. I applaud the Libertarian leadership that invited the presidential candidates to speak at the national convention. Not because the candidates would attempt to convert the members of the party, but rather to convert the candidates to become more aware of libertarian issues and positions.
This book is another example of how the demand curve slopes downward.
Ackshully, the original Libertarian party multiplied its votecount from 4000 in 1972 to 173,000 in 1976 to 921,000 in 1980 before Republican National Socialists realized we were not WITH them OR the International Socialist communists. The GOP reaction, like that of the commie Dems, was to infiltrate and neutralize. Murray Rottbutt hollered that Libertarians were legalize-murder communists bleary-eyed from rereading Bakunin and setting time bombs. "Former" YAF robots packed the LP with girl-bullying Jesus bigots to rewrite the platform. https://libertariantranslator.wordpress.com/2024/05/25/original-libertarian-platform-votes/
The book is another response to effective demand for red herrings that pointedly elide Ayn Rand's objectivism as a value-based alternative to invisible superstitious terror and crude collectivist looting. The author whined that Jacob Soll makes stuff up, but this blinkered elision is just as dishonest. When the LP was being formed, ALL meetings of young people hotly debated Ayn Rand and Mencken. None knew or gave a rat's ass for Rottbutt, Mises, Hayek, Friedman--or even Bastiat, Spooner or Sumner. If not for Rand--as revitalized by Robert Heinlein and Eric Frank Russell--none of those entities would have come to hand . All seem desperate altruist collectivist attempts to deflect votes away from the LP to well-meaning buffoons incapable of explaining the Crash or defining an individual right.
Start and end right here" The 2 most powerful Libertarians in the world , Millei and Villareul , both oppose abortion on Libertarian grounds and you at Reason ATTACK them.