The Math on Mass Deportation Doesn't Add Up
Flawed calculations and overlooked benefits show why Trump's immigration plan would be a fiscal disaster for America.

President-elect Donald Trump campaigned on "Mass Deportation NOW!" His justifications for the necessity of this policy were easily dismissed by experts. New immigrants aren't behind a murder spree, aren't driving up crime rates, aren't eating our pets, aren't taking "black jobs," and—in many cases—aren't even here illegally. One area that is more difficult to assess, but also rarely mentioned by Trump: how mass deportation would affect U.S. government debt.
If Trump is looking for better intellectual cover for mass deportation, he could find it in a preelection report from the conservative Manhattan Institute (MI). Their report found that the influx of illegal immigrants since 2021 will add $1.1 trillion in federal debt over the lifetimes of the immigrants and that "mass deportations would significantly reduce the national debt over the long run." This conclusion was seemingly at odds with a recent report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) that found a big and growing fiscal upside to the recent influx of nearly $1 trillion over the next decade.
The author of the MI study, Daniel DiMartino, generously shared his data and calculations, allowing me to see whether it was the CBO's shorter timeframe or something else driving the divergent results. Last week, the Cato Institute published the results of my replication. I identified nine methodological problems in MI's model that make deportation seem to benefit government budgets. Rather than a $1.1 trillion loss from recent arrivals, I find these immigrants provide a positive $4.9 trillion in net present value for the federal government over a lifetime.
How Is Such a Big Difference Possible?
Start with taxes: MI assumes that immigrants won't increase tax revenues from businesses at all. This is obviously incorrect. Not only are many immigrants business owners, but businesses only hire workers because those workers will increase profits that will be taxed. Most analyses indicate that workers pay the majority of corporate income tax through lower wages. When workers are deported, they won't be earning wages, and the businesses won't be earning profits or paying taxes on them.
To determine future tax revenues, MI's analysis assumes that recent illegal immigrants are very uneducated and won't have high-paying jobs, with their report showing just 7 percent of recent illegal immigrants had a college degree, while almost half have no high school degree. Its estimate—which is based on a misreading of a decade-old blog post of mine—is at odds with more recent evidence. Demographers at the Center for Migration Studies have found that 20 percent of illegal immigrants ages 18 and up have a college degree.
It might seem surprising that so many illegal immigrants have college degrees. But many of the "illegal immigrants" that Trump and MI are talking about deporting didn't even enter illegally. They came in a temporary status called "parole," which Trump plans on canceling. Moreover, socialism didn't just destroy the jobs of the poorest Venezuelans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, Haitians, and others. It ruined the prospects for more skilled workers as well, and they are often the ones who have the means to move. Immigrant children who grow up here illegally also often obtain education beyond high school.
MI's failure to use the best, most recent evidence on immigrant education means that it dramatically understates recent illegal immigrants' future tax revenue by $2 trillion.
Now consider the cost side: MI states new illegal immigrants are indirectly causing Congress to increase defense spending. This isn't true. Population growth has lowered real per capita defense spending, making the maintenance of America's standing army cheaper for Americans. MI then assumes Congress will cut defense spending by roughly $40 billion annually when the new illegal immigrants are deported. (Hint: it won't).
MI also states that illegal immigrants will claim Social Security and Medicare at the same rate as the average immigrant—even though they are legally prohibited from obtaining those programs. Of course, some might receive asylum and become eligible for those federal programs, but that's likely less than 10 percent of those who entered. Adopting a more reasonable assumption—that only 25 percent become eligible—reduces the costs from immigrants by another $2 trillion.
Once you properly correct for these issues, low-skilled immigrants go from net negative in MI's model throughout their working lives to net positive throughout their working lives. Immigrants are paying more in taxes than they receive in benefits, so they are reducing future interest costs on the debt. This is something that MI doesn't account for either.
Add up all these differences, and recent illegal (or soon-to-be illegal) immigrants go from negative $1 trillion to a positive nearly $5 trillion in MI's model.
The True Cost of Mass Deportation
MI's DiMartino has since admitted at least some of these calculations should be changed (though he still insists deportations will lead to lower defense spending). But let's just assume for a second that MI did all the calculations exactly right, and recent immigrants will cost the U.S. government $1.1 trillion. "Mass deportation" will cost a lot of money too. On MI's accounting, it would cost about $500 billion, which it says is still worth it.
The problem is that MI is not considering the fact that mass deportation will almost certainly be paid for by new federal debt, which means it should consider the future interest costs on that debt. Factoring in the debt, the cost of mass deportation triples to $1.5 trillion over the immigrants' lifetime. In other words, even if MI was 100 percent right, mass deportation wouldn't be worth it.
When you combine the likely cost of mass deportation with the lost fiscal benefits from recent illegal immigrants, reversing the "Biden Border Crisis" will end up imposing almost $6 trillion in costs on U.S. taxpayers.
Naturally, not all immigrants are fiscally positive. Immigrants who arrive just before retirement or who arrive at young ages and don't graduate high school are likely a net cost to the government.
These negative effects are almost entirely the result of Medicare and Social Security. There is a simpler solution than deploying the military to round up or block the entry of immigrants: Just limit welfare. If immigrants were ineligible for welfare benefits, almost every immigrant would be fiscally positive over their lifetime, regardless of when they arrive or their educational attainment.
Let immigrants naturalize if they have paid in (either through their normal taxes or a special fee). There are next to no immigrants who would turn down that deal. Given the enormous upside, why would Americans?
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It’s happening, and it’s a good thing.
If by "it", you mean that sore-in-the-cunt cuntsorevaturds live by "figures don't lie, butt butt-liars lie out of their butts habit-sluttily", in odor to justify their NEVER-ENDING HATREDS OF THEIR FAVORED SCAPEGOATS, then yes, I agree!!!
Twat's next, $billions$ and $billions$ of human-sized glue traps to catch all of the illegal sub-humans, trannies, and Jooos? Do you stink that perhaps a few LEGAL humanoids might also be caught by said glue traps, maybe, also?
I feel your pain, loser.
Sick-Sick-Sick, You PervFectly LIE like Your PervFect Father in Hell, the Evil One! If You REALLY felt my pain… The pain that I feel when victims of the Evil One, and victims of themselves, fall for this LIE that “If ONLY we can line up enough scapegoats to PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH, and feel superior to, THEN we will FINALLY feel the Ecstatic Happiness that WEEE so Splendidly Deserve!” … If You REALLY felt my pain that I feel, that You and Your Fellow Perverts have fallen for such LIES… Ye would STOP being evil!!! Liar!!!
If you ever come around to wanting to work on your affliction, EvilBahnFarter-Fuhrer, start here: M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie, the Hope for Healing Human Evil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/
People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these “people of the lie” work in the lives of those around them.
Also…
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Read and heed!
If “miracle happens here” and 5.56.666.Sick-Sick-Sick gets an exorcism, it needs to recall, you MUST actually PAY your exorcist… Or you might get…
…
…
…
… Repossessed!
M Scott Peck was writing about you, crazypants.
NY executed the wrong squirrel.
Right animal. Wrong address.
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It's NOT happening, idiot, not now. What happens 2025-01-20, we'll see. My predictions:
* Criminals get deported or jailed with only Democrats protesting and looking even dumber. Sanctuary cities which release criminals without telling the Feds piss off the locals when those criminals commit further crimes. Congress threatens to cut funding to sanctuary cities and states. Legal battles ensue into the 2028 elections.
* Recent loners get deported but are harder to find and garner more sympathy for sanctuary cities and states, especially when they are working, or married without US-born children.
* Breaking up families turns the tide and Trump wastes a lot of political capital on deporting parents whose children were born here and are citizens. I doubt he's actually stupid enough to try and revoke childrens' citizenship. Regardless of what xenophobes want, the courts aren't going to change that clear interpretation of the 14th Amendment.
I bet no more than 2 million end up deported by the 2028 election, and even 1 million is pushing it.
Deportation of 1 million criminals sounds like a win.
Sure does, but too many people don't differentiate, or include crossing the border alone as crime worth deporting. Get rid of everyone who had a criminal background before entry, or acquired a criminal background after entry. That's the low hanging fruit.
Unfortunately, police have shown they'd rather play SWAT team at oh-dark-thirty on people who aren't desperate enough to fight back, and I have the sneaking suspicion that they will concentrate on the lightweight criminals instead of the murderers and rapists.
Yes, crossing the border illegally is a crime, and those offenders should be deported.
How is someone being in the country without papers harming the life, liberty or property of another person through force or fraud? Who specifically is harmed? If you say the state or the collective then you should reconsider your politics because that’s how leftists think.
Ah! The series converges once the meaningless "leftist" is replaced by the specifically defined altruist. Differences among mystical and material altruists are quibbling differences in degree and choice of sacrifice-collector.
Can we get a translator for the LIBtranslator?
Sarc, it’s over. You lost. And you’re going to continue losing. Your precious illegals are going bye bye. So there’s no need to relitigate this argument which you and Pedo Jeffy have always lost.
It’s Trumpin’ time!
Again, Sarc, I double dog dare you to cross into New Brunswick or Quebec without stopping at customs and showing your passport or enhanced driver's license. Let's see what happens to you if you do that.
I like how sarcs entire world view is to pretend everyone who comes over is crime free, self supporting, and whatever other bullshit he has to say to justify his consistently proven incorrect view.
Just ignore reality. And sarcs worldview is great.
Reality is not sarcs friend.
That's fine, but they are not in the same criminal class as murderers and rapists. Even if you can't tell the difference, the public can. Only a few idiots will object to getting rid of the nasty criminals, but a lot more will object to the typical high-handed police actions used on illegal parents who have been here ten years and have citizen children and haven't committed any crimes since crossing the border. If you think otherwise, you're a fool.
The rhetoric of claiming they are all murders and rapists is a fallacy, of course, but I notice you ignore any and all possible harms as fantasy which is just as unhinged.
Try and emigrate to Mexico legally and see how that works out for you.
For some reason, open borders advocates find themselves unable to be honest about the second order consequences of those policies. Things like more expensive housing, fewer jobs, depressed wages, etc. are issues the native population might take issue with if anyone would bother to be honest about the subject.
I don't think a lot of people would take such issue with illegal immigration if we went back to, say, 1920's era government when if you came to this country you were expected to do it all on your own. To be super clear, there is nothing wrong with expecting immigrants and everyone else to do it on their own. This country is not obligated to subsidize the cost of moving to the U.S. from the 3rd world poor who are immigrating illegally, nor is it obligated to subsidize the poor choices of native citizens.
Where to begin?
1. I did not "claim they are all murders and rapists". That's a strawman. Do better.
2. What does trying to emigrate to Mexico have to do with anything? Changing the subject is a pathetic way to not respond.
3. You assume a lot about my opinions on the welfare state, all of which show you haven't been paying attention.
If you want an actual discussion, start with one.
So, reading comprehension isn’t your thing.
1. No shit. Amusingly, that was me throwing you a bone and saying the imaginary people you are arguing against were being stupid and using a strawman. The reasons for your stupidity are different.
2. I see you have no knowledge of emigration out of the United States. That sounds about right, since you have little knowledge of anything outside what feels self righteous to you with other people’s money. If you think that’s changing the subject, you are a shallow thinker without a knowledge pool to draw on that isn’t force fed to you. How it could be that you think the United States is the only country on Earth that should not have immigration policy is a conundrum, but the answer is probably a simple one: you don’t know anything about the subject outside vapid emotive hot takes.
3. Your opinion on the welfare state seems subservient to your position on open borders. After all, here you are shilling for open borders without a single word about why that might not be possible or desirable in an expansive welfare state. You simply pretend it doesn’t exist, and start your moral argument there.
You’re a nut. Too bad the ban didn’t stick.
(stands, applauds)
Or if they have pet squirrels.
Not to mention the message of discouragement to those planning on crossing in the future.
Breaking up families turns the tide
They don't have to do that--the kids can go back with their parents, and return the US later on. The anchor baby shit needs to end.
Nice theory. Trying to enforce it against non-criminal parents with jobs will turn the public against it.
If they came in illegally, they broke the law already.
Indeed.
I think the 75 million who voted Trump did so with eyes open. What's more telling is the flak from diverse but minority corners. Must be over the target.
Proving the kid they brought across the border is actually theirs would be a nice touch, but can you imagine the price tag on several million DNA tests a year?
I thought breaking up families (and eliminating the concept of the traditional family) is a socialist-progressive goal. Trump is actually helping the left.
I thought breaking up families
Once again, for those who can't read:
the kids can go back with their parents
CBS dropped a poll earlier today with results showing a majority of Americans support deporting all illegals at 57%:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-poll-trump-transition-cabinet-picks-2024-11-24/
Other stuff in there too. Polymarket could start betting on how many illegals will get deported to see what likely will occur.
Then there's the 350,000 missing illegal immigrant children?
Say what, Mayorkas?
Where are they? Who has them? How many are still alive?
Maybe some voltage applied to your balls will loosen your tongue.
( I would approve)
Seeing as we know the net tax loss for the bottom 40% if workers, his assumption they will add 5T in taxes is nonsense.
Rather than a $1.1 trillion loss from recent arrivals, I find these immigrants provide a positive $4.9 trillion in net present value for the federal government over a lifetime.
Note. This is assuming only pay in into the system.
Most analyses indicate that workers pay the majority of corporate income tax through lower wages. When workers are deported, they won't be earning wages, and the businesses won't be earning profits or paying taxes on them.
Then he assumes none of the costs from employment shift sending more citizens onto welfare rolls. He assumes none of this cost. And he assumes all increased profits is pure tax profit from underpaying non citizen workers.
He then admits tax spending is up, only one area, but it is less per capita.
Population growth has lowered real per capita defense spending, making the maintenance of America's standing army cheaper for Americans.
So spending actually went up. And remember, the vast majority of this group is a net taxpayer loss.
He then leaves out all other spending weather infrastructure, schools, medical care, etc.
What a dishonest piece of shit article. Assume all benefits, no costs. And where you admit to costs claim lower per capita for low taxpayer groups lol.
Illegal alien vultures taking govt welfare is profit.
As a general rule of thumb, whenever Jesse asserts that someone assumes, denies or admits, he’s lying. Then he calls that person a liar. He likes to accuse others of doing whatever malicious act he is doing while he is doing it.
Ideas™ !
True, but known to all but that sockpuppet and its fellow ani. The economic benefit of getting brainwashed mystics to besiege Reason writers with Orangopox victims derives from the 1955 Solomon Asch experiment in Opinions and Social Pressure. Once questioning and dissent are gone, superstition can exterminate Jews, burn witches and Beatles albums unmolested.
What kind of monster burns Beatles albums?
Mark David Chapman might take a shot.
Hey, at least he got an autograph first.
It became a valuable collector’s item.
Faster than a speeding bullet.
One of the late George Harrison's first electric guitar just sold for $1.2 million.
I see you didn't read the article dummy. See those italics? It is me reading hos assumptions. They are laughably dumb. No wonder you fell for it.
Using his logic, all of the illegals have reduced, greatly, our per capita national debt.
Sure, debt has increased...but still, less per capita and that is important.
Hey, Reason has a shilling quota to meet to get those Koch bucks.
While this analysis is good it will fall on deaf ears. The economic benefits of immigrants, documented and undocumented, has been shown over and over again. The public isn't listening. They are being conned. There will never be a mass deportation and what deportation does occur will likely be a chaotic mess. Like the Wall in the first Trump administration, it will be overpriced, unfinished and useless.
Yes, deaf ears will HATE! No matter TWAT that math and the data says! Fish will swim, and deaf ears will HATE!
Why, then, you should get yourself some of them immigrants and enjoy boundless economic benefits!
BTW, many of those studies, including a comprehensive review done years ago by the National Academies, do recognize some net positives, but only on average and over some longer time periods. They also recognize negative impacts, in local areas and on some demographic groups.
"Hey, Mexico! Party at Mod's house. The Sinaloa Cartel will be sending its finest."
Ain't no party like a cartel party
That will be a fun way to spice up a party that otherwise would look like the one Louis put on in Ghostbusters (the original, none of the shit sequels).
"Ted! Annette! I'm glad you could come, how you doin', give me your coats. Everybody, this is Ted and Annette Fleming! Ted has a small carpet cleaning business in receivership; Annette's drawing a salary from a deferred bonus from two years ago! They got fifteen thousand left on the house at eight percent
"So they're okay! So, does anybody wanna play Parcheesi?
"Okay, who brought the dog?"
One of the few times I agree with you, at least as far as the conclusion. As to its economic benefit, more freedom generates more prosperity, but not when that freedom includes welfare and free range criminals.
Current government costs for immigrants is net negative. Believe the next 10 million will be net positive is just stupid.
The benefit they claim is more taxes while ignoring more spending. The one spending he brought up was per capita defense spending. Not the driver of tax spending.
All models are wrong, some are useful. -George box
The models used here have always been wrong.
Benefits also include more workers and more consumers. Government taxes are not the defining characteristic of an economy.
You're talking about legal immigrants, not social welfare seeking scofflaws enjoying free food, housing and medical plus a $2k monthly allowance.
No shit sherlock. You bucking for a Nobel Peace Prize?
But Mod isn't.
Hmm, a curious point. Just about every job in the United States lists a bottom tier candidate as having at least a high school education. I notice you fail to comprehend that most illegal immigrants have no such education.
Sounds an awful lot like you think the US should bend over backwards and ignore all standards and requirements that are expected of citizens for these illegal immigrants.
I'm not in favor of any of that government claptrap, of course, but simply pretending it doesn't exist is possibly the dumbest possible position out of all potential options.
I notice you just made up what you think I comprehend from thin air. Show some quote of mine. You can't.
Sounds an awful lot like you just made up your entire argument from thin air.
Sounds an awful lot like nothing you've said has any bearing on what I said.
It’s up to the reader how to interpret your non-sequiturs.
I’ll leave you with these basic econ101 questions any college sophomore that’s taken a single economics class should be able to answer.
1) What happens to wages when you add a large amount of labor into any employment sector?
2) What happens to prices when you increase demand for things like housing while restricting supply?
If you can answer those, I might have an idea of what you actually think but it would indeed require you think rather than emote.
It’s pretty stupid to get offended at people thinking you mean something different from what you say, so speak up and say what you mean.
This.
The idea of importing more below average workers as improving the economy is just stupidity. It is amazing people keep making the claim.
Demand up, prices up.
Low wage workers welfare up.
More workers wages down.
Importation faster than infrastructure, more strain on infrastructure.
Yet these idiots continue to believe open borders isn't market based despite all evidence
As of now, immigrants are a net negative on the economy.
Importing 10M more people as a net average loss is stupid.
I can't put this more clearly.
You sound like a Keyenesian.
You and most other overestimate the amount of welfare benefits given to immigrants and there are many more home-grown criminals to worry about. Those arguments simply don't hold water.
$150 billion last year alone. That is higher than the gdp of 23 different latin american countries.
So they were just letting anybody in and it still cost $150 billion? Can you imagine how much it will cost when they try to keep them out?
Especially since a significant portion of that $150 billion was for law-enforcement and legal services. Non-citizens don't get welfare. They can get the type of assistance a community give to low-income workers, but they are working. It is also the case that benefits given to a family member are attributed to the family as a whole. So, assistance given to a minor child is then recorded as assistance to every member of the family. So again, the welfare numbers are inflated and accept them because they want to accept the idea that immigrants are all on welfare.
Huh, so you advocate for a slave class that pays into entitlements with no option to receive benefits. A curious point of view, but one that's popular in leftist circles I'd admit. They are a big fan of servitude of all kinds.
Non citizens are getting massive amounts of government assistance money. Stop lying.
“Especially since a significant portion of that $150 billion was for law-enforcement and legal services.”
Cite?
> Non-citizens don’t get welfare.
https://council.nyc.gov/joseph-borelli/2024/07/03/nyc-to-spend-millions-on-new-round-of-pre-paid-debit-cards-for-migrants/
Wanna try that again?
FEMA gave all their money to the wetbacks.
None for the hurricane victims.
I guess that’s just tough s***.
FEMA
Funneling
Emergency
Money
to Aliens
"there are many more home-grown criminals to worry about."
...never solve a problem because other problems exist. Good plan.
In Mod’s limits mind, he’s far more worried about keeping J6 trespassers incarcerated for life and chasing down old women praying outside of abortion mills.
If they're that inconsequential, then stop paying them.
You remind me of the idiot kid who sold the Navy Times on my carrier. 20 cents, but if you gave him a quarter, he'd whine it was only a nickel. I told him if a nickel was too small to sweat, then lower your price to 15 cents and give me a dime back.
Works both ways, jackass.
You do know that we have a national deficit and debt, right? And that most states, counties, and cities struggle to avoid bankruptcy? And that we do have too many domestically-sourced criminals?
So why the fuck would we want ANY more of that?
The analysis is actually quite terrible. It assumes pay in and waives away total costs. It is a study to work on idiots lime yourself.
He even switches to net present value so he can get a bigger benefit for taxes paid in 10 years. It is entirely dishonest lol.
CATO went CUCLL some time ago.
CUCLL = Collectivists Undercover Cosplaying Leftist Libertines. I coined this.
White Mike seethes with jealously
You'd think if mass immigration were so awesome for the economy, we wouldn't be $38 trillion in debt and sinking trillions in Medicaid payments for them.
Yeah, even assuming illegal immigrants are the miracle bullet they claim it's curious that we're still sinking in debt.
It's a classic case of missing the forest for the tree's.
If all the debt is because of the native born, surely these illegal immigrants home countries must be paradise.
Just pull Bill Clinton's playbook out of mothballs. He deported WAY more than Bush, Obama, or Trump, it clearly didn't break the bank, and the economy was roaring in the 90s.
Clinton deported over 12 million. Didn't see Team Blue getting their panties in a twist over that.
They were busy putting on blue dresses.
Where are you getting twelve million? I keep seeing less than one million, which would have been over eight years.
Where are you getting less than one million total? Migration Policy released an article on June 27th that showed Clinton averaged about 1.5 million returns per year, based on DHS records.
Notably, that started dropping after Bush came into office, which is rather ironic given the rhetoric coming out of there about potential terrorists crossing the border. It went up slightly during Trump's term but was probably getting nerfed by Deep State "resisters," then spiked under Biden due to Title 42 and Title 8 expulsions, which obviously weren't enough to overcome the massive incursions that took place.
I'd expect Homan to keep the Biden admin's Title 8 policy in place while expanding it to start expelling the violent criminals to start with.
Stop lumping illegals in with immigrants. Amd also stop with your open borders bullshit. A,Erica voted correctly.
You lose, comrade.
I made it to the third paragraph before the bullshit got too sticky to wade through. Yeah, just shut up and trust the "experts". That's been working great lately, right?
I made it to the 5th paragraph where they claim that ‘20% of 18 yr olds have college degrees’!
Hilarious - are they drunk?!
"a fiscal disaster"
And nobody will suffer more than Reason's sugar daddy Charles Koch, whose $69,300,000,000 inherited fortune could plummet to sub-60-billion territory. 🙁
#LibertariansForHarris
#CheapLaborAboveAll
Imagine the economic benefits we would enjoy if we just brought back slavery! Somebody run the numbers!
I suppose there are already "numbers" that can be analyzed in all the countries that still have slavery. I doubt there is a net fiscal benefit, but you can probably find the answer.
There are no countries with legal slavery.
Sure there are. You live in one. The 13A which abolished slavery explicitly allows it as punishment for a crime, and our prisons make good use of their slave labor force.
The stopped clock is right about forced labour.
It’s a terrible situation. Prisoners should be issued lazy boy recliners and widescreen televisions.
And home visits, free cars, pre-paid phones, sex-change health care, and apologies for any inconvenience.
Or just left alone to commit as many crimes as they want. Unless they’re republicans trespassing on government property. In which case Sarc celebrates cold blooded execution.
No, but they shouldn't be used for someone else's business which can operate normally. Instead the work they should be doing is stuff like cleaning up highways, creeks, spillways, homeless encampments, underbrush in forests etc... Stuff that's not even remotely profitable but needs to be done.
While it is allowed as punishment for a crime, one of the biggest users of it is a blue state, California. Ask Kamala Harris about how she kept people in prison longer so she could use them as slave labor. It seems to be something Democrats are rather comfortable with.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery
"the definition of slavery has expanded and evolved over the past several decades."
Uh-huh. I was talking about actual slavery.
Like the thousands of sex slaves in California alone? Yeah, those are pretty slavey.
You'd better put on your foil hat and get back in your bunker—I hear a black helicopter coming.
Wait, I thought progressives told me that having to work for a living, and being forced to share the nation with oppressor groups means that I am still a slave.
That’s literally how Democrats speak - their racism is subconscious but shocking!
‘Who will clean your toilets?’
‘Who will do the jobs you won’t do?’
Same thing!
It's nice to see Rachel Madcow's salary reduced by $5 mill.
Wait until Elon buys MSNBC...LOL!
If illegal aliens are so beneficial to us, isn't it immoral to take them away from the shithole countries from which they flee? Don't they need the blessings of these people much more than we do?
Sure, but if we keep poaching these awesome border jumpers their home countries will never get better and the status quo remains in effect for perpetuity. It’s win- win. Duh.
Well, maybe not for the shithole countries, but who gives a fuck about them, amirite?
They only become beneficial when they pass through the magical border.
Give the NATIONAL debit to the ILLEGALS.
They start in debit; they either work it off or don’t.
Simple!
How may illegals are you housing and paying for with your own money?
If that answer is 0, eighter shut up or kill yourself
How many Donald Trumps are ye housing and paying for all of their expenses for? None? Will then get started on exporting all of the obliviously EVIL, parasitical Donald Trumpses!!!
Also...
Cuntsorvaturds making friends, gathering votes, and influencing people by... PEDDLING KOOL-AID AND SUICIDE!!! How's it workin' for ya, servant and serpent of the Evil One?
EvilBahnFuhrer, drinking EvilBahnFuhrer Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
Loves death and the dying moans,
Then he likes to munch their bones!
He’s truly, completely a necrophiliac,
His brain, squirming toad-like, is REALY, really whack!
Has no thoughts that help the people,
He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
Kool-Aid man, please listen,
You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Hey EvilBahnFuhrer …
If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!
Great description of BHO. Much closer to BHO than DJT.
https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-what-is-bho-the-definitive-guide-to-butane-hash-oil-n1350
Twat does BHO have to do with ANYTHING, udder than YOUR PervFected WorShit of DJT, while Ye were PervFectly smoking, snorting, and-or injecting BHO? Were Your PervFected Visions colored ORANGE, perchance?
When I read Kyle’s comment, I guessed that you would probably have to google BHO because you’re not that bright. That oil is indeed the first thing google gives you for “bho”.
Also, I feel your pain, loser.
NY executed the wrong squirrel.
[comment deletion should be possible while edit is enabled and no child comments exist]
It was estimated that 1.3 MILLION illegal immigrants were denied asylum and given deportation orders. Is there analysis on how many left? Those are the easy pickings – they were already told to leave. They can also pick up those leaving court as new deportation orders are given.
How many illegals have committed further crimes? As NYC and other jurisdictions do not track legal status, there is no evidence to support illegals have a lower crime rate. Round up and deport all illegals with further criminal activity.
Those using resources in NYC, Chicago, Denver, etc. taking hotels, apartments, community centers away from the taxpayers are not adding to the economy. They can go across the border until their asylum claims are settled.
There are so many that are not contributing to the economy, getting rid of just them will take years. Then we can worry about the others.
I don't recall the hand wringing when self-described "deporter in chief" took credit for deporting 3 MILLION illegals.
Rand Paul worried about the maid that had worked here illegally for 30 years. That is not the people Holman claims to be going after.
Uhh, yes, Holman said EVERY illegal, without exception. He's an idiot if he really thinks he can, but he's a politician, and said EVERY illegal, without exception.
That's dishonest as they've publicly stated what their plan is. Final deportation and criminals.
Not sure why you guys gave to lie about it in your histrionics.
Self deportation and reduction of crossing will also cause a reduction. But you have to pretend it is a nazi like roundup. Appeal to emotion and all.
https://notthebee.com/article/tom-homan-makes-his-plans-as-border-czar-clear
Hard to be less clear he means EVERYBODY.
Hard to be less clear that he means to prioritize criminals and those already under deportation orders.
Hard to try that hard to not admit he meant EVERYBODY.
But clearly not on day one, doofus.
No shit. He's not deporting anybody on day one. It takes time to write memos and promulgate them.
Any other brilliant insights today, Einstein?
Jesus, is your attention span really so short you couldn't make it to the second paragraph?
Again with the basic failure of reading comprehension. He is quite literally saying they are not 'off the table' for deportation, not that they certainly will be deported.
It's really amusing when people post direct quotes that actually prove they are histrionic.
Feel free to post another quote that actually says what you say it says rather than what you wish it said. I'd agree that he certainly wants to deport them all, but as you note that's probably not actually possible hence the 'on' or 'off' the table statement. As written, it simply shows that they are not putting a fence around any illegal immigrant saying they are off limits for deportation such as DACA babies during the Obama administration.
His first name says it all.
Holman will be out of office by the time the low-hanging fruit is deported. He's a politician, he understands the optics, as opposed to his rhetoric.
And how much of that "saying every illegal" is signalling, not just domestically but also to foreign audiences? Does "every illegal" necessarily imply all at once or does it allow working down a list of worst to least bad? Quit being a histrionic shill for unlimited welfare and societal collapse.
If you'd read anything else this histrionic shill has written ... but no, that's asking for a miracle.
It was estimated that 1.3 MILLION illegal witches were BURNED!!! Now we have MANY-many millions left to go!!! And also...
SNOT just illegal sub-humans, butt also trannies, accused “groomers”, abortionists, gays, heathens, infidels, vaxxers, mask-wearers, atheists, dirty hippies, Jews, witches, or, the very WORST of them all, being one of those accused of STEALING THE ERECTIONS OF OUR DEAR LEADER, right, right-wing wrong-nuts? ANY methods are OK, so long as they are used against the CORRECT enemies, am I right?
Unread
Well at least send them to sanctuary cities. They apparently need/want more of them. And don't use federal funds to pay for them.
Withholding federal funding from sanctuary cities has to go through Congress first, and probably will pass, but that takes time, and Congress will provide enough legal quibbles that it will be tied up in courts for years, probably past the 2028 elections.
First we need to build walls around the cities.
Issue sanctions against sanctuary cities!
Sending them to sanctuary cites gives dems more repesentation in the house and blue states more electoral college votes.
Unfortunately, the sanctuary cities have been shipping them out (Laken Riley's killer for one). At some point, the costs are an issue to the cities. And now it seems like the illegals may want to go back to the sanctuary cities. Wouldn't you want to move to a sanctuary city if you were going to be deported. The sanctuary cities will go broke defending them. Which is fine with me.
Democrats / Liberals
“Illegals are a blessing from god!”
- But also -
“Illegals will DESTROY our cities!”
Derp derp
At what point does Reason just turn off the comment feature?
When they no longer care about the number of page views.
LOL. Exactly. I almost exclusively read comments at this point. I came here for libertarian commentary, and the staff rarely provides any.
You're not the only one.
"Damn, that Reason article has a dumbass take. Wonder if the comments will tear them to pieces?" and I'm rarely disappointed.
> I came here for libertarian commentary, and the staff rarely provides any.
Neither does the commentariate at-large... /sigh
Same. Reason used to be okay, but Trump broke them.
The Commentariate are awesome though (sans the few muted distractions).
Two days before they lose the entire audience.
They did that for me, said I'd triggered the automatic spam filter, and within a week, I was spending only 5-10 minutes a day on the site. The titles alone made most articles worth skipping; I already know government fucks things up, and just reciting a litany of fuckups without any real recommendations other than "don't do dat" is pretty useless. Most authors were similarly skippable.
If they were to stop me commenting again, I'd probably ditch the site entirely within a couple of weeks. Whining alone, especially whining about only the utilitarian aspects of the latest government fuckup, is not worth wasting time on. I'd probably check every week or two, see if they'd remembered what liberty was, and that's about it.
I would just move everything to X. They post all their articles there, and you can post long form responses now anyways.
Or Mastodon! Mike Laursen can super stalk ENB underneath her articles.
Gotta wonder if Mike uses his name or his Dicksalad handle on Mastodon.
Huh. Might have to look into that. Last time I had a twitter account, it was useless, even aside from all the censorship.
Twitter has kind of changed since the old Twitter 1.0 days. It's far better now.
It's the only thing people come for anymore. Certainly not to read a bunch of DC progressives wearing libertarian drag spout fridge magnet slogans.
The comment feature was here before Ku-Klux sockpuppets. It simply wasn't anonymous.
Pluggo has been around for a while.
Aren't you like Plug's dad?
Needs more Comstock!!!!
They need to ban about a dozen of the most prolific posters. Once these xenophobic far right-wingers are gone, the discussion will improve immeasurably. The only reason these turkeys post here is because they have been banned elsewhere and Reason is their only remaining outlet.
Who the fuck are you to even suggest banning anyone here, asshole?
Dude, there’s plenty of places where you and the other beta cucks can go and jerk each other off. Like 90% of the internet.
Fuck off.
Almost got a trifecta, but failed to mention Nazi or misogyny.
D+
You sound upset. Do you need a safe space?
*Reason DNC TDS Addled Shits*
“Nah-nah! Can’t hear you so it’s not truuuuue!”
'This conclusion was seemingly at odds with a recent report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) that found a big and growing fiscal upside to the recent influx of nearly $1 trillion over the next decade.'
Just curious: how much does the CBO attribute to each food truck per annum?
CBO is forced to use assumptions given to them. Why they've always been very low on spending and costs and very high on revenue.
Hum, a recent Biden DNC CBO report found illegals are a benefit?
Color me shocked.
When you combine the likely cost of mass deportation with the lost fiscal benefits from recent illegal immigrants, reversing the "Biden Border Crisis" will end up imposing almost $6 trillion in costs on U.S. taxpayers.
Wow, highest estimate yet. And Trump bootlicker JesseAZ quibbled with the $880 billion estimate.
Donnie said he was the King of Debt. He quadrupled the $500B deficit Obama left. But Obama was a tightwad. Donnie will double Sleepy Joe's sorry-ass record on the deficit.
Not sorry this is driving you nuts,
Just wait until all the winning starts. He's going to be a mess.
Pluggo the pedo prognosticator will be ok provided he starts buying Cheesy Poofs at Costco.
And I estimate deporting illegals will cost a gazillion dollars. Now you can cite an even higher estimate, and more "proof" of how silly that idea is.
BTW, will you ever stop citing Trump's 4 year debt as deliberate, as if nothing unusual happened in 2020?
In this article, Trump shown to be almost TWICE the spend-thrift that Biden was! https://reason.com/2024/11/13/trump-has-no-discernible-interest-in-fiscal-responsibility/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/10/immigration-working-class-wages/680128/ THEY TOOK OUR JERBS!!!! This is just a TOTAL fib!!!
"Trump to be almost TWICE the spend-thrift that Biden was!"
FLAT-OUT LIE.
See, you guys can ask a good question on occasion. so let's take 2020 out of his record:
Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years
The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.
....
When Trump took office in January 2017, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office was projecting that federal budget deficits would be 2% to 3% of our gross domestic product during Trump’s term. Instead, the deficit reached nearly 4% of gross domestic product in 2018 and 4.6% in 2019.
.....
Trump had the third-biggest primary deficit growth, 5.2% of GDP, behind only George W. Bush (11.7%) and Abraham Lincoln (9.4%). Bush, of course, not only passed a big tax cut, as Trump has, but also launched two wars, which greatly inflated the defense budget. Lincoln had to pay for the Civil War. By contrast, Trump’s wars have been almost entirely of the political variety.
https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump
And Trump inherited a very healthy economy from Obama. His stewardship on the country's financial condition has been a disaster.
turd, the TDS-addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
FOAD, shit-for-brains.
First off, Propublica, lol. Media Matters didn't have anything?
Aside from the fact Allen Sloan is fudging his figures with non-government debt, and aside from the fact that he said "aside from the pandemic" and then uses it anyway, his charts show exactly the same trajectory as Obama until the pandemic, even with the fudging.
Lazy trolling like this is why Open Society will never hire you back.
The question regarding his exit and prior activities is: who ordered the Code Ped? When Pluggo posted links to cp, did he do it on his own or was he taking direction from someone above him?
A large portion of the growth, 70%, in his first 3 years was entitlements (including ACA) and increase to interest on the debt. Basically the spending Obama pushed to after he left.
The vast majority of that debt was Medicare/Medicaid payments. Do I need to show you the math again, you hicklib pederast?
Propublica??? LOL!
The fact you ignore the 150b a year spent on illegal immigrants a year, actual measurable costs, while relying on bullshit pro immigrant activist models shows why you’re such a moron lol.
Cato has been on the wrong side of this analysis for a decade at this point. They are hilariously consistently wrong.
Your go-to rebuttal to anyone who disagrees with mass deportation is to accuse the person of ignoring costs and to accuse them of lying when they say they don’t, yet you deny that immigrants have any benefit at all.
Irony man strikes again.
Did you notice in the article above, that the costs were given in annual numbers, but the benefits numbers were 'over a lifetime'?
Their report found that the influx of illegal immigrants since 2021 will add $1.1 trillion in federal debt over the lifetimes of the immigrants
Rather than a $1.1 trillion loss from recent arrivals, I find these immigrants provide a positive $4.9 trillion in net present value for the federal government over a lifetime.
Great point. Totally refuted the article. May as well have dropped an atomic bomb on the author's head.
Are you drunk or something? If one is going to compare numbers, it should be done on a apples to apples basis. Comparing annual to lifetime is apples to oranges.
Like comparing an appletini to a screwdriver?
Do you know what net present value is? First proof he is full of bullshit.
Then you can search for all the costs, he doesn't do that. He centers the analysis on increased tax revenue from lower wages.
You fucking fail at reading comprehension or logical construction. It agreed with your a priori so you simply accept it.
‘Best case scenario!’
lol yeah that was particularly hilarious.
You know sarc, if you weren't a total retard you'd see I already addressed this Cato other above. You even responded to it. He in fact ignored basic costs and gave rosy assumptions.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Donnie said he was the King of Debt. He quadrupled the $500B deficit Obama left.
No he didn't. Pelosi put a gun to his head and forced him to sign covid spending. It wasn't his fault.
You two really are the two dumbest s
Fuckers here. Easily fooled by keyenesian economics and Democrat lies lol.
Even if you want to give him shit for not wasting political capital on a veto in an election year (I bet even Gary Johnson would have signed it to avoid the shellacking he would receive in the media), shrike’s statement is still fucking retarded.
Republicans controlled Congress from 2012 to 2016 and instituted the sequester, much to shrike’s and Obama’s protestations. Democrats controlled Congress from 2018 to 2020 and didn’t do a goddamn thing to even slow spending, let alone cut it. And at the end of the day, that’s who drives the deficit.
At least you acknowledge the spending came from the [D] party.
Your sarcasm is the only honesty you ever put on display.
Good to know that Democrats have some awareness of cost, and even cost-benefit analysis. Now if they can try applying it to other issues in their national agenda.
All of these estimates assume that there's no such thing as "self deportation." If it becomes apparent that the gravy train is over, people will leave.
Violent criminals need to be transferred from prison to being deported when their sentence is up. All the various subsidies being paid to people who come here illegally need to stop. All of them. The paying for plane tickets to fly large numbers of people into specific places to provide cheap labor for campaign donors needs to stop and those responsible potentially criminally charged.
Do those things, and a lot of the problems that have occurred due to the sudden massive influx of illegal immigrants will greatly dissipate. Many will simply leave and go back home. Fewer will continue to come. Businesses will stop reflexively reaching for the cheap labor lever and maybe come up with better ways to do business (contrary to belief, cutting labor costs isn't always the most profitable tactic).
Most importantly for the writers at Reason, this won't be such a winning issue for Republicans anymore and the writers have a much better chance to witness their preferred election outcome: Democrats winning.
“…the writers have a much better chance to witness their preferred election outcome: Democrats winning.“
I miss Reason being a Libertarian rag and not an anti-Conservative rag.
Wow, fighting crime costs money, so let’s not fight. No one has to obey the rules, whoopie!! Let’s apply your logic to rapist, I mean how many women could a rapist rape if left unchecked? And rapists are paying taxes and purchasing goods which contributes to the economy. Hey, now do pedophiles, home burglars, robbers, Or shoplifters - oh wait California already did that. How did that work out?
In case you’re too dim to recognize sarcasm - if rules don’t apply we descend into anarchy, aka city run by Dimocrats.
People act like ‘broken windows’ don’t matter.
Quite a few of these people arrived on someone else's dime; the food and porta-potties to get them from Guatemala to the US border weren't free.
There are records telling us who paid; find them and bill them the cost for deportation.
After you cut their dicks off.
Let’s get a few things straight. Illegals don’t pay any taxes neither directly nor indirectly, none of them have an education, they all steal jobs, none of them work, all of them have children in school, all of them are on welfare, they’re all rapists and murderers, they all eat pets, and they smell.
Fucking stupid leftist article.
Wouldn’t be surprised if CPS is sometimes called in when illegals abuse their kids. Say Buddy, didn’t you have CPS called on you? What did CPS allege you did?
Why he “lay his hands upon her in a concerning manner”.
What I want to know is who called CPS?
Maybe he did! In a demonstration of boaf sidez, he both allegedly committed an act that necessitated a call to CPS and also was the good Samaritan that placed the call.
It was in the middle of the custody dispute and a dishonest counselor at my daughter’s school who was actively working with her mom called CPS because, in an effort to get the kid up on the morning, I dragged her feet off the bed. CPS didn’t follow up on it because it was stupid, but being reported is like being arrested. Doesn’t matter if it was valid or not, it will still be used against you. Which was my point when I originally brought it up. Now ML quotes my original comment and claims I sexually abused my kid. In all sincerity he’s the shittiest human I’ve ever known.
Sarc, maybe I am mistaken and if you cite the threads I’ll look at them for the timeline, but the first reference to that kind of abuse that I saw came from a post of yours and not ML.
Also, does this make ML first on your list?
I should have known you were asking in bad faith. Shame on me.
You posted about the second allegation. When I read that thread, ML (and others) later questioned it. Provide a cite to your first mention and to his first mention to determine who mentioned it first.
What is this "it" that you're talking about? Me sexually molesting my own kid? I've never mentioned that because, among other reasons, I'd never contemplate doing such a thing. So he had to have mentioned it first. Regardless it shouldn't matter. You don't go around accusing fathers of incest for fun. Well, maybe on the internet. But not in the real world. Them's fighting words, and I doubt a cop would arrest a father for giving someone a beat down for making such an accusation to their face.
Post the cite and I’ll look at who made the attribution first.
What part of “I’m not a loser with a thousands of bookmarked comments” do you not understand?
It was within about a week when that happened and likely in a Rounndup article. You’re making a claim that shouldn’t be challenging to provide the specific location.
He’s got thousands and thousands of bookmarked comments. I’m sure if he wanted to deny it he could post a link for you. But he won’t because the link would prove what I said. Doesn’t really matter. I’m sure you’d continue to defend him because bad faith operators stick together.
I’m not asking him, I was asking you. It was recent. You made a claim and I asked you to support it by citing the article with said comments.
Hey Sarc, all I did was quote you. You gave us the innuendo all on your own.
Maybe the actual shitty human is the guy that said it and not the person who only quoted him?
He’s got thousands and thousands of bookmarked comments.
This is Sarkles little game. He'll say all kinds of stupid shit when he's drunk, but when you call him out he'll lie and say he didn't and demand a cite, so you give him one and then he claims he's being stalked.
What a joke he is.
Yet another debating term Sarc fails to comprehend. Look up "arguing in bad faith" and come back here. You might be surprised to see a photo of you and Jeffy together by the definition.
Man you are fucking retarded.
You lack an intelligent argument so immediately rush to a strawman.
You really are dumb sarc.
Deport David Bier next.
Then George and Alex Soros.
Flawed calculations and overlooked costs show why Obama, Biden, and Harris' immigration plan were a fiscal disaster for America.
FFS, Bier. Chicago is drowning in debt because of illegals. NYC and Denver aren't much better. But sure, open the border for more.
The only way to stop dishonest shit like this is to relocate Venesualan gangs and Hatians to his neighborhood so he can experience the cultural enrichment first hand.
Eric Adam’s (NYC Mayor) “this will DESTROY our city!”
*cue the DNC investigations for stepping out of line!*
It’s hilariously obvious.
This is fake math. And it's why my family has removed REASON from our beneficiaries in our CRT and trusts -- and all but eliminated our annual REASON contributions.
REASON talks about all the businesses started by LEGAL residents, which is quite true and beneficial. REASON ignores the costly problems of the throngs of illegals (many known criminals) who are now settled into our welfare system.
Admittedly "mass deportations" should be TO A DEGREE fine tuned. People who came here illegally before about 2019 and are now gainfully employed should in many cases be allowed to stay. It's not their fault that we have had a rather porous border in the past.
But we went from a fairly porous border to an OPEN border, giving huge benefits and "front of line" privileges to these invaders instead of those who chose to apply for entry legally -- not no mention other needy American citizens.
Here's a documented fact all REASON supporters understand:
***
When you pay people not to work, they tend not to work.
***
A corollary is that people on welfare will vote for the people who give them the biggest welfare benefits.
Wishing welfare didn't exist doesn't change these facts.
Like I said above, the Reasonistas are mostly DC Progressives in libertarian drag.
They need to move their offices out of the swamp. Even if it’s just to nearby Philadelphia or Richmond.
At least this commenter has an identity and speaks the language of economics... AND is linked to a literate, expressive blog. My former boss Petr Beckmann resigned from the Reason Board because of cowardly antinuclear surrenderism. This was true at the time. If true now it is LESS so than in the looter media. They, in their various socialist varieties, are the actual competition. Competition offers us choices, kind of like third party spoiler votes used to before the Anschluss.
The same Petr Beckmann who pissed on special and general relativity and other accepted theories in modern physics? The same Petr Beckmann who inferred Albert Einstein was a crank? He was your boss?
What did you do? Cut his grass?
"But we went from a fairly porous border to an OPEN border, giving huge benefits and “front of line” privileges to these invaders instead of those who chose to apply for entry legally — not no mention other needy American citizens."
Exactly this. Like the vast majority of Americans I am pro immigration. And all of those people who labored through our legal immigration system and became productive legal residents have my respect. But what the Biden regime and the Reason libertarians have created is not an immigration system at all. It is a taxpayer financed free for all that has resulted in chaos. It will take large scale deportation to return to anything resembling an orderly immigration system. And if any of those deported wish to come back and go through that process I would welcome them. In the meantime our borders, cities and taxpayers are overwhelmed.
What it's developed into is not so much immigration as importation of persons.
Apparently you have no idea just who or what all those immigrants are.
How many thousands are young Chinese men of military age? Some of whom have already been caught spying on our military bases.
How many are members of violent gangs, who will have no problems shooting it out with the police?
How many are murderers, rapists, and other violent criminals?
Remember, they consider young women easy targets.
Reason has become dishonest DNC propagandists - I only come here to watch the Commentariat eviscerate the supposedly ‘more intelligent’ tradition media. It’s like watching the Smart Kids realize they are losing, in real time. It’s fascinating to see the mental gymnastics Reason writers will resort to, to make their ‘arguments’.
>Rather than a $1.1 trillion loss from recent arrivals, I find these immigrants provide a positive $4.9 trillion in net present value for the federal government over a lifetime.
That is very good for the Federal government, I suppose - what benefit does it provide *the rest of us though*? Your elites in DC get to fund more foreign wars and the rest of us get . . . what?
>Just limit welfare. If immigrants were ineligible for welfare benefits, almost every immigrant would be fiscally positive over their lifetime, regardless of when they arrive or their educational attainment.
Yes. And as soon as we limit welfare, *THEN* we open the borders. But not before.
Open borders IF:
6mo Visas, with 6mo extensions available provided proof of working/education.
$10k down payment to remain in the country longer, apply for citizenship etc. If you want to be here it’s not a lot of money.
Automatic deportation upon a felony conviction.
Hiring illegals is a civil infraction with massive fines.
And of course the end of welfare, deportations for overstaying a Visa, defaulting on the down payment, etc.
MI also states that illegal immigrants will claim Social Security and Medicare at the same rate as the average immigrant...Adopting a more reasonable assumption—that only 25 percent become eligible—reduces the costs from immigrants by another $2 trillion.
The more reasonable assumption is that Dems will eliminate the citizenship requirement by the time they are of retirement age making them all eligible and thus vastly increasing their costs.
That’s not a more “reasonable assumption”, it’s unicorn farts on the authors part.
"This conclusion was seemingly at odds with a recent report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) that found a big and growing fiscal upside to the recent influx of nearly $1 trillion over the next decade"
___
First of all, when has the CBO been correct on any of their projections? Never, and I doubt they are correct now.
Also, ask Laken Riley about the murdering illegal aliens. Oh, that's right. You can't ask her now. She's dead. Ask her family and friends.
Next, Haitians are eating pets in Springfield and other places where they have settled in large numbers. The media asked the town leaders if it was true. Of course, since those same "leaders" are making big money by having the illegal aliens in their city, of course they were going to say "no problem".
And yes, the illegal aliens are taking jobs usually done by members of the black community. No, they are not taking jobs from law professors. Law professors would certainly change their tune if they were. But they are taking the jobs from concrete finishers, framers, painters, sheet rock finishers, road construction jobs, convenience store clerks, nurses aides and other jobs previously held by black blue-collar workers. The left's response is "Well those workers can just learn to code so they aren't really losing jobs".
The illegal aliens are also causing rent increases that displace low-income workers. The government pays the rent on their behalf so landlords increase their rent because they know the government will pay more. This causes blue-collar Americans, both black and white, that would normally rent those homes to be priced out of the market.
As with most Democrat party voters, university professors live in a bubble and if government policies don't negatively affect them then they first, say "it is not happening", and then later move on to, "well it's happening but it is a good thing".
When a law professor moves from his home and turns it over to illegal aliens, and resigns their faculty position in order for it to be taken by a illegal alien, then I will start to believe their bullshit is more than just that. Until then it is nothing but bullshit piled on top of crap.
Observe that this angry republican brainwashee has a blind spot centered on WHY these foreigners are fleeing starvation by running toward the very country whose Congress, SOCOM and DEA injected Prohibitionism, Crashes, Banking Panics, Unemployment, Asset-Looting and War on Rights into their home governments. https://libertrans.blogspot.com/2024/04/1987-crash-naming-names.html
Well stated!
Rather than a $1.1 trillion loss from recent arrivals, I find these immigrants provide a positive $4.9 trillion in net present value for the federal government over a lifetime.
So-called "libertarians" promoting schemes to increase federal budget. wtf.
This is literally a downside to mass immigration I hadn''t considered.
Just limit welfare.[...] There are next to no immigrants who would turn down that deal.
So cute you think that.
The screeching from the laptop "journalist" with CBO "science" tells me this program is right on target.
Let immigrants naturalize if they have paid in (either through their normal taxes or a special fee). There are next to no immigrants who would turn down that deal. Given the enormous upside, why would Americans?
The thing is, if these illegal immigrants are able to draw benefits after some automatic naturalization after a period of 'X' years of paying in, the system still collapses pretty fast.
Keep them paying into those programs under the table (or with stolen SS numbers) and it keeps it solvent for eligible voters for at least a little longer since these people are not eligible to draw from those programs even if they manage to illegally pay into those systems.
Why do you think the political class, who would never be caught dead near an illegal immigrant unless they're cutting their grass or working as a maid, want so many of them to cross the border? It's to keep those very entitlement programs afloat just a little longer.
If they all suddenly become eligible for benefits those programs still fail. Turns out aborting your tax base that requires multiple people to pay in just to pay off one voter isn't a viable way to keep the ponzi scheme going. Our average kids per family would need to be way, way higher to even pretend to support such programs.
And no, this isn't an especially clever or viable way to keep those programs going since under the table untaxed income never makes it's way into those coffers in the first place. Some of it might, but a lot of it won't.
Democrats, and even a good number of Republicans, think the politics of free shit will keep them in power forever. They may be right, or they might be wrong, but either way it's a pretty gross use of illegal immigrants. Making them suddenly legal just causes the house of cards to collapse sooner rather than later, and what of your precious social security and medicare/medicaid then?
Literally nobody with a functioning brain cares about the cost. This MUST happen, regardless of its price tag.
The smart action would be to reallocate all existing spending (including the DOD until they can get their books in order) for this singular purpose. Cut off every single entitlement, redirect its dollars to deputizing as many people as possible to round up these criminal aliens and send them packing.
This is one price tag we have no choice but to afford.
So ATF has been reading up on the "Argument From Intimidation" and decided Mein Kampf was the Republican solution for "us". How original...
It's like you didn't comprehend even slightly how calling anyone who disagrees with you, however slightly, a "Nazi" played out for you in the last election.
There is no point in having a "Union of States" if it cannot even afford to prevent foreign invasion.
You open-borders BS'ers just as well be lobbying for total destruction of the USA and allowing colonial States to join what-ever nation they want to. Which ironically won't even allow half the immigration the current one legally allows ( i.e. The USA has more immigration than any other larger nation on the planet. )
The Strange Death of Europe is a must read.
Mein Shots
Transgender cop suspected of attacking colleagues with genital pump – Bild
Judy S. allegedly drugged and lured two men to her Berlin apartment and proceeded to assault them, inflicting serious injuries to her victims.
While the men claimed to have abstained from any substances, they nevertheless all of a sudden found themselves “very intoxicated” and “unable to act,” Bild reported.
Judy S. allegedly proceeded to assault the two with a penis pump “among other things,” resulting in serious injuries, including to the victims’ genitals.
Are the two victims’ allegations truthful or is this a stretch?
This tranny shit gets so confusing with the language. We're talking about a dude who drugged some dudes then did something sexual to them? I hate when a story fails to provide much in the way of explanation for the many questions it creates.
There is more at Bild though through a paywall.
Others have touched on this story:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14117553/Transgender-policewoman-27-assaults-two-colleagues-penis-pump-seriously-inures-genitals-offering-threesome-drugging-following-night-notorious-sex-club.html
forget it Jake, it's tranny town
Trannies are all mentally ill some to the point of being dangerous.
As in 1939, the enemy ain't "us," but rather, the "U.S." occupied by prohibitionist fanatics blinded by superstition and eugenic voodoo. Germany simply jailed, enslaved, deported or shot anyone who questioned Hitler's rendering of Luther's interpretation of Jesus' Sermon on The Mount. Listening to enemy radio programs carried a death sentence. That these things are what Christian National Socialist goons want instead of Reason Magazine is clear from their strategy and tactics. Germany HIRED the Hitler party to counter Hoover-Anslinger pressure on the League of Nations--pressure that forced Germany to curtail production of many non-addictive and relatively harmless drugs. That coercive pressure by fanatics--who banned BEER--led to the Danat and other bank failures in Jun-July 1931, eventually prompting equally pugnatious reprisal force, mass deportations and deadly blanket media blackouts. Oh, and the 1939-45 drug war was no coincidence either. https://libertrans.blogspot.com/2024/08/behind-scenes-in-1929.html
Are you retarded or something? Prohibition ended in 1933 and you're talking 1939.
^This. Least everyone has to ignore the very fact that most US Christians are wildly against ‘democratic’ [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] while the other-side champions it endlessly.
Give it up Libtard – No one is stupid enough to think the religion of Christianity is the roots of [Na]tional So[zi]al[sim].
He's almost as stupid as Sqrlsy.
Laken Riley and AJ Wise unavailable for comment.
This may not rise to the Villareal level of national importance but seriously WTF?
https://redstate.com/jeffc/2024/11/23/texas-farmer-faces-20-years-in-prison-after-armed-agents-raid-her-home-over-chicken-eggs-n2182378#google_vignette
Texas Farmer Faces Hefty Prison Term After Armed Agents Raided Home Over Foreign Chicken Eggs
Mayo proceeded to LAX, where she planned to declare her possession of the eggs.
“I get to LAX, still nothing… It was completely my intent to declare them,” she said, adding that she didn’t see a single customs agent as the airport was under construction. “What I had read on the website for customs was that it was at the discretion of the customs agent. So I was like, ‘If they let me through, they let me through. If they don’t, I had a wonderful experience on this trip,” she said.
Excited about her purchase, Mayo told her friends on Facebook about the process. But the excitement would soon turn to horror.
A team of heavily armed federal agents raided Mayo’s farm in July 2023. The officers also detained her tenants, placing them in handcuffs.
“They kicked in all the doors. They handcuffed my tenants. They kept one of my tenants standing outside, handcuffed in his underwear, for two hours,” Mayo recounted. In total, around 40 officers were involved, including U.S. Marshals in riot gear. “Look at me. Do I really look like I’m gonna run?” she asked, incredulous.
without government, who would steal your livestock supplies and put you in a cage for 20 years?
Every socialist ever?
Noice!
The freedom to raise chickens is a shell of its former self. There are a poultry amount of beneficial reasons for these agents.
It’s all about white supremacy.
What about the EOCs*?
*Eggs of Color
Well it’s a tough one to crack.
Too many flights of fancy to distract folks.
But we all know the politicians get yolk on their faces.
Sorry, she’s not a “journalist”, so they don’t give a fuck.
It’s disturbing that a nominal “anti government” publication eats up crime data from the federal government, even with recent revelations. The odds that the police is accurately keeping tracking of migrant crimes is near zero.
Most Immigrants whose businesses contribute revenue aren’t subject to any deportation. The vast majority of Americans, immigrant or otherwise, pay very little tax revenue. Entire states depend on a handful of their population for the bulk of their revenue. CA is the best case scenario for an open border America – a very wealthy state with the most poor people, deeply in debt and fiscally dysfunctional. Nothing there is cheap, despite there being no shortages of immigrants.
Unlike most Trump fans, I do not oppose guest worker programs. Fill shortages with qualified workers, make sure they have access to reasonable housing and medicare. Most Americans will be fine with this. What they won’t tolerate is millions of foreign nationals entering the country undetected, possibly descending into their neighborhoods and adding to the rampant homelessness situation, all so lawncare companies have a better chance of hiring someone. People won’t tolerate total chaos in exchange for stuffing the federal coffers.
Medicare for currently working illegal immigrants or guest workers? Sounds like a tremendous expansion of that program that would collapse it much, much faster.
Perhaps you meant some other program that isn't intended for retired senior citizens that paid in over a lifetime?
I'm all for getting rid of medicare, don't get me wrong, but that grossly misunderstands the programs in question as they currently exist. You'd need to expound on that rather a lot to make a cogent point.
Trump expanded guest worker programs
Correct it doesn't add up. They only subtract
Start with Venezuelans. No more Laken Rileys.
The Tren de Aragua all need to be rounded up. All of them. Put them in some old prison . Then send them back where they came from. If they resist,well..... they get a cheap burial. El Salvadore had the right idea.
If any mayors try to stop this, arrest them and charge them with treason and harboring dangerous criminals...you know, like the f****t mayor of Denver.
We're definitely going to need more prisons and detention camps. No, their countries are not willingly going to take a lot of these people back.
- “covid came from a wet market”.
- “ the vax is 100% safe and effective with no
downside.”
- “Inflation is transitory.”
- “Brandon is as sharp as ever.”
- “Trump is Hitler. That’s why we’re having meetings
with him.”
- “If we deport dirt poor people who snuck into this
country and don’t make enough to pay income
taxes it will devastate government revenues!”
Haha. We don’t believe you. We’re doing this. If we’re wrong we can course correct. Deal with it.
The Lying Left also a true to their name.
This elections absolutely was an election about the nature of Reality itself like JBP said.
The Left lost its grip on Reality.
All those job openings that nick Gillespie won't do.
This isn't rocket surgery.
1) End all government handouts to illegals. No more free housing, food, cell phones, etc.
B) Enforce the laws against hiring illegals.
Most of them will leave on their own. No need to deport them.
Art, in the real world MANY turn to crime.
Technological society leads to increasing numbers of people who cannot adapt to the inhuman rhythm of modern life with its emphasis on specialization. A class of people is growing up who are unexploitable because they are not worth employing even for the minimum wage. Technological progress makes whole categories of people useless without making it possible to support them with the wealth produced by the progress.
Jacques Ellul
If you get ride of handouts many will leave on their own.
the first group to forcefully remove would be the criminal illegals, gang members etc to be removed or jailed.
the rest would actually be fine
The Left wants to more the argument in details.
When the gravy train ends illegals stop coming.
This alone will save BILLIONS in resources for Americans!
While you are on your endless selfish rant about --- what else? - money
"A Venezuelan national who has been living in the United States illegally was accused of raping his boss’ 14-year-old daughter while living in their home.
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) sources told the New York Post that Jesus Alberto Pereira Castillo, 20, was arrested in Denver on Tuesday after nearly three months on the run following the alleged sex assault"
This is why I say any pro invasion advocate that isn't housing illegals needs to shut up
There are two other major factors in this debate that David Bier is ignoring.
1. Illegal immigrants aren’t typical consumers like US citizens. They send enormous amounts of their earned money home as remittances to families in Central America. So that money leaves the local economy and isn’t circulated.
2. In regard to drawing medicaid, medicare, social security, etc – this might be one cause of the mismatch between MI and the CBO data. Illegal immigrants do likely pay more into social security than they draw – HOWEVER, this is an important caveat: that benefit only lasts as long as they remain illegal! If they are given amnesty or legal status (as Reason wants to do) then they would be able to draw from these programs the same as anyone else.
you no.1, most remittance is to the cartels that brought them here with the threat to family members back home and if a person still dosn't pay they have enough local connections to find them
I wouldn't say "most" but yes, that is a good point. A lot of that money goes toward paying off criminal organizations.
The logic in this article doesn’t " add up”. If you believe the federal government numbers you are a gullible dolt.
I learned of a huge drawback to immigration from Reason.
Apparently most illegal immigrants are net tax payers and this accounts for as much as 4.9 Trillion additional monies for the Fed gov over the next ten years.
SHUT IT DOWN NOW.
The open borders illegal immigration advocates never even bother to define what they consider to be "mass" deportation, while trashing Trump's efforts to reduce the US border/security crisis.
Does mass deportation involve 10 million illegal aliens, 1 million, 100,000, 10,000, 1,000 or just 100?
Regardless, US taxpayers will spend less money and increase our safety if even 10,000 illegal aliens who have committed crimes and/or whose applications have been denied are deported, as doing so will also prompt tens of thousands deport themselves, and will sharply reduce illegal border crossings.
Tell all this to Laken Riley and her family. Oh, you can't talk with her. She was murdered by an illegal immigrant who never should have been allowed to enter our country.
Your ASSumption that illegal immigration can, even theoretically, have ANY benefits that can't be better achieved by legal immigration invalidates EVERYTHING you argue,
Here's a novel idea - whatever the costs, pass legislation to bill the ones responsible for the mess - Biden, Harris, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, etc.
They don't have enough blood.
"The problem is that MI is not considering the fact that mass deportation will almost certainly be paid for by new federal debt, which means it should consider the future interest costs on that debt."
Is future interest costs on federal debt considered in figuring the costs of illegal immigration? Or in any other calculation of costs to the government?
Is Trump aware that ending anchor babies requires an amendment to the Constitution
to change one clause in the 14th Amendment? I would favor such an amendment,
IF they don't go crazy with restrictions on legal immigration.
This amendment would for all persons born after it is ratified:
1. Remove the place of birth from the qualifications for citizenship-by-birth.
2. A citizen-by-birth must be born to at least one American citizen parent, or to an immigrant who is legally a permanent resident in the USA in a status that is on a path to naturalized citizenship.
And (3), it would ban welfare for non-citizens, other than retirement, disability, medical programs to which the non-citizen has contributed by deductions from or taxes on his earned income, and emergency medical treatment. An adult non-citizen that is permanently unemployed and unable to support himself or pay for necessary medical care will be deported as soon as possible; the government will pay for room and board only while awaiting a swift deportation.
Discussion: That is, going forward the children of illegal immigrants, foreign tourists, and guest workers on temporary visas are not automatically citizens just because they are born here.
I propose a second new Amendment to replace "natural born citizen" in the qualifications for President of the USA: Replace Article Two, Section 1, Clause 5 with:
To be eligible for Office of President, a person must:
1. Be a citizen of the USA at the time of birth,
2. Have attained to the age of 35 years,
3. Have lived in the USA, served the USA in the military or diplomatic service, or lived with a parent that was serving the USA in the military or diplomatic service, for at least 24 years, including at least 12 years while under 18 years of age.
These two together would affect a future Obama in that (a) he's inarguably a citizen because his mother was one, but (b) he may be presumed insufficiently American to be President if he spent too long in other countries.
The author of this article is an idiot. The cost is irrelevant -- there is no price for national security, a secure border and national sovereignty. Every single criminal invader must be deported. I don't care if the person has lived here for 20 years -- he must be deported. All of them.
How I know the article is TDS addled BS;
“ Demographers at the Center for Migration Studies have found that 20 percent of illegal immigrants ages 18 and up have a college degree.”
In America only about 20% of us even have degrees and that’s after age 22!
How are all these 18 yr old having college degrees bro? They don’t - you’re fudging #’s bc they’re a TDS addled liar.