The FBI's Quiet Revision of Its 2022 Crime Numbers Adds Fuel to an Argument Between Harris and Trump
While it is not true that "homicides are skyrocketing," recent trends in other kinds of violent crime are murkier.

Since the beginning of this year's abbreviated presidential campaign, former President Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris have told different stories about crime trends during the Biden administration. As the Trump campaign tells it, "homicides are skyrocketing," and violent crime has risen dramatically since Trump left office.
While the first claim is inconsistent with data from multiple sources, the second claim finds support in the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which does not cover homicides but tracks other kinds of violent offenses, whether or not they were reported to police. The Harris campaign, by contrast, prefers the FBI's numbers, which reflect only reported crimes. Judging from those numbers, Harris says, "Americans are safer now than when we took office."
The latter narrative took a hit recently when the FBI quietly revised its 2022 numbers, which initially indicated a 2.1 percent drop in violent crime. Economist John R. Lott Jr., president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, found that the revised numbers indicate a 4.5 percent rise in the reported violent crime rate, which you can see in this FBI Excel file. Last month, the FBI estimated a 3 percent drop in reported violent crime between 2022 and 2023, which Lott says would have been half as large but for the change in the 2022 numbers.
Lott says the FBI publicly noted that upward revision only with a vague statement that "the 2022 violent crime rate has been updated." He and other critics argue that the FBI's reticence makes it hard to trust the agency's data: If the FBI's 2022 "update" changed a decrease into an increase, can we be confident that something similar won't happen with the 2023 numbers? What about the FBI's preliminary numbers for 2024, which indicate a 10.3 percent drop in reported violent crime between the first half of last year and the first half of this year?
While it is fair to ask why the FBI did not forthrightly acknowledge or explain its revision to the 2022 numbers, a downward trend beginning last year is consistent, in direction if not magnitude, with the numbers reported by other sources. According to AH Datalytics, which separately tracks data from hundreds of law enforcement agencies, reports of violent crime in that sample fell by 2.6 percent in 2023. Its numbers show a continuing drop this year: The total for the 12 months ending in August 2024 was 3.2 percent lower than the total for the 12 months ending in August 2023.
Last July, the Council on Criminal Justice (CCJ), based on data from a sample of 39 cities, compared crime reports for the first half of 2024 to crime reports for the first half of 2023. It found that reports of homicide, aggravated assault, gun assault, carjacking, robbery, and domestic violence fell by 13 percent, 7 percent, 18 percent, 26 percent, 6 percent, and 2 percent, respectively. The CCJ reported that "most violent crimes are at or below levels seen in 2019, the year prior to the onset of the COVID pandemic and racial justice protests of 2020."
The picture is clearest with homicide, the most serious violent crime and the one that is hardest to miss. In addition to the 13 percent drop reported by the CCJ for January through June, a report from the Major Cities Chiefs Association that covered 69 cities indicated a 17.4 percent drop during the same period. AH Datalytics, based on a sample of 277 cities, reports a similar 17.9 percent drop so far this year.
There is no basis, in short, for the Trump campaign's claim that "homicides are skyrocketing." And according to the FBI's numbers, homicides in 2023 were down by 10 percent compared to 2020, Trump's last year in office. AH Datalytics reports a similar drop for its sample: 9.5 percent.
Comparing 2023 to 2020 may seem unfair to Trump, since the latter year saw a huge 30 percent spike in homicides, which may have been related to the pandemic, the unrest that followed George Floyd's death, or both. Using 2019 as the comparison year works to Trump's benefit, since the number of homicides in 2023 was still substantially higher than the number in 2019 (about 17 percent higher, according to the FBI). But by Trump's logic, which blames the Biden administration for any increases in crime since 2020, Trump likewise should be blamed for the 2020 homicide surge.
Moving beyond homicides, Trump is on firmer ground in noting that the violent crime victimization rate measured by the NVCS was 37 percent higher in 2023 than it was in 2020. In recent years, especially in 2022, changes indicated by the survey have diverged dramatically from the FBI's numbers for reasons that are not entirely clear. Even with the FBI's adjustment for 2022, there is still a large gap between the increase in violent crimes measured by the NCVS (which, again, do not include homicide) and the increase in reported violent crimes tallied by the FBI.
One factor could be a drop in the share of crimes reported to police, which according to the NCVS fell from 45.6 percent in 2021 to 41.5 percent in 2022. Lott suggests another possible explanation in his Real Clear Investigations piece about the FBI's revised 2022 numbers:
Over the past few years, the number of police officers has declined because of cuts in budgets and many retirements. One result is that police departments nationwide—from Charlottesville and Henrico County, Va., to Chicago, Ill. and Olympia, Wash.—are no longer responding to calls unless the perpetrator is still there actively committing the crime. Instead of police coming out to investigate and take a report, residents in those jurisdictions can still go to the police station and wait in line to get a police report filled out. In addition, despite the widespread belief that calling 911 is enough to report a crime, the FBI officially doesn't tally 911 calls. It only counts crimes when police make out an official report.
By contrast, Lott says in an email, the NCVS may record crimes as reported to police even when there is no official report because "people believe calling up 911 counts as reporting a crime."
It is also worth noting that the NCVS covers crimes experienced from July of the previous year through November, while the FBI's numbers cover the calendar year. The difference in the periods covered could help explain the 2022 divergence. That difference may also have played a role in 2020, when the NVCS measured a 22 percent drop in the violent victimization rate but the FBI recorded an increase in reported violent crime, even excluding homicides.
Between 2022 and 2023, according to the NCVS, the share of violent crimes reported to police rose from 41.5 percent to 44.7 percent. Meanwhile, the per capita rate of reported violent crimes rose by 4.1 percent, which Lott argues is reason to doubt the 2023 drop estimated by the FBI. Yet according to the NCVS, the overall violent victimization rate fell by 4.3 percent last year, while the rate excluding simple assault fell by 11.2 percent. Although those changes were not statistically significant and we should not make too much of one year's results, they could be a sign that the NCVS and FBI trends are converging, since both sources indicate a drop in violent crime last year.
Historically, the trends indicated by these two sources have been broadly similar. Between 1993 and 2023, the rate of reported violent crime measured by the FBI fell by 51 percent. During the same period, the violent victimization rate measured by the NCVS fell by 72 percent.
In addition to the question of what is happening now with homicides (which have fallen substantially since 2020, according to several sources) and violent crime generally (which likewise seems to be falling), there is the question of how much credit or blame any given president should get for these trends. Since crime control is mainly a state and local function, it would be unfair to hold Trump responsible for the 2020 surge in reported violent crime. But by the same token, it is implausible to suggest that the current president (let alone his vice president) is responsible for the 2022 surge in violent victimizations recorded by the NCVS.
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The fbi lied in order to help the Democrat candidate, but let's not fuel the fire of diviciveness.
Fuck off sullum
Sullum gleefully and unquestioningly repeated government propaganda.
KWM, when will you fire this DNC shill?
Oh, right, you are too!
The thread.
https://reason.com/2024/09/23/new-fbi-data-further-deflate-trumps-claim-that-crime-is-rising/
C'mon, man. The data is murky now. Give him a break.
Or, as our resident poster oft claims, the information changed.
I haven't looked. Is Kkkemjeff equivocating and running deflections down below?
JD Vance is wrong about why the FBI crime data is wrong.
'The latter narrative took a hit recently when the FBI quietly revised its 2022 numbers, which initially indicated a 2.1 percent drop in violent crime. Economist John R. Lott Jr., president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, found that the revised numbers indicate a 4.5 percent rise in the reported violent crime rate'
Down is the new up.
I've been told Lott is racist since he showed there was a higher percentage of illegal immigrants in Arizona jails than the percentage of the population.
100% of illegal "immigrants" have broken US law, and should be in jail until deported.
He focused just on felonies and above.
Indeed. Otherwise every cat and dog will end up in a stewpot or BBQ.
Women, especially young women will no longer be fearful of being raped and murdered by those nice young Venezuelans , you know, the ones with face and neck tattoos.
Lott's study was fatally flawed. He deliberately manipulated the statistics in order to generate the result he was looking for.
https://www.cato.org/blog/fatal-flaw-john-r-lott-jrs-study-illegal-immigrant-crime-arizona
So Lott, like a lot of folks on your team, deliberately conflated legal and illegal immigration, when doing so advanced his narrative, and came to a false conclusion.
“So Lott, like a lot of folks on your team, deliberately conflated legal and illegal immigration, when doing so advanced his narrative, and came to a false conclusion.”
This is what you do here, EVERY DAY.
You come here and constantly refer to illegals as ‘immigrants’. As if illegals and immigrants are the same, and interchangeable. That you think writing such a statement is something you can get away with here showcases both your stupidity and arrogance.
“This is what you do here, EVERY DAY.”
It’s (D)ifferent when Jeffy does it.
Lott actually looked at the citizenship status of every immigrant. Let's see if Jeff notices.
No he did not. The dataset did not permit that level of granularity. You are lying because that is what right-wing media told you to say.
Illegal means they came here through other than legal means.
Human trafficking is the worst of it which includes the trafficking of young children who mysteriously disappear by the thousands.
You may not want to envision what happens to those children.
Say what, Mayorcass?
Biden?
Harris?
YOUR team conflates legal and illegal immigration when you come across LEGAL immigrants who are here who you don't *feel like* should be here, and proceed to rationalize why they are akshually illegal immigrants. Such as asylum applicants, or TPS recipients from Haiti.
You and your team have never truly cared about 'enforcing the law' when it comes to immigration. It was always about making sure the 'wrong immigrants' stay out, REGARDLESS if they are here legally or not. Your team's opposition to immigration is about identity, not illegal behavior.
As if illegals and immigrants are the same, and interchangeable.
See there you go. You are doing the same thing right here. A migrant is literally "one who migrates", and has nothing to do with the migrant's legal status. A migrant can be a legal migrant migrating into the country (immigrant), or not. The fact that you think "immigrant" should ONLY refer to the "good" type of migrants is exactly what I am talking about.
Your semantic dance isn't helping you.
It only makes you look like you're searching, grasping for some combination of words that you can rationalize into looking good.
You can't.
As a percentage of legal immigrants across the US, how many end up in Arizona?
Wow, 10 whole percent of deportations aren't illegals? Yeah, what a great argument. Fatjeff lying collectivist.
We actually don't know the true percentage. It might be higher, it might be lower. The point is, John Lott doesn't know the percentage either, and deliberately overlooked this point in order to inflate his statistics. He deliberately overcounted the number of immigrants who were in jail for violent crimes and declared them all to be "illegal", so that he could proclaim "OMG look at all these illegals committing violent crime!"
He lied to you and to the world, but you all don't care because it advances your narrative of illegals as violent thugs.
By maybe 10%.
That's the hill you wanna die on?
Sorry, of course you'd die on a hill. Your heart would give out.
Soooo….. a lot of legal immigrants are committing violent crime too? What point are you trying to make here?
Just give us a number, Jeff. How many rapes and murders are ok with you?
Last month, the FBI estimated a 3 percent drop in reported violent crime between 2022 and 2023, which Lott says would have been half as large but for the change in the 2022 numbers.
In other news, the chocolate ration has been increased to 20 grammes.
“In other news, the chocolate ration has been increased to 20 grammes.”
This is very frightening to Pedo Jeffy. As he thought the ration was 20 kilograms.
Wait until Sarc finds out what the Victory Gin ration is for Outer Party members.
I'll light up another Victory cigarette.
*grabs popcorn*
When someone's argument is "we were lying then, but we're not lying now." The only useful takeaway is "we're going to lie to you when we feel like it, trust nothing we say."
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
I have been an enthusiastic creeper of the comment section for months now. This article made me pay to join the fray though.
The mental gymnastics is insane with Sullum on this one. Admits the numbers used to justify slamming trump were wrong; then spends paragraph after paragraph trying to explain away why he was wrong. Can’t admit any fault whatsoever. “Oh yeah, these new numbers definitely show that we were wrong, but the numbers aren’t trustworthy anymore because they don’t match these other numbers we don’t ever talk about. They were for sure trustworthy before though. Oh and you're talking about 2022, well what about the assumptions for 2023?"
Welcome to Reason Rationalizations.
What's hilarious is 2 years ago Reasom had an article on why the FBI stats were incomplete. They seem to forgo principles in election years. Or at all with Trump.
It's (D)ifferent, Jesse.
Reason principles
"faggot Marxists Koch says jump, we say how high"
Welcome, Sailor!
Hi sailor! New in town?
Welcome Sailor. I like the cut of your jib.
It is a boat time you posted. ENB will make you a submarine sandwich.
And she better start getting Little Emma trained.
It’s just navel gazing at this point.
You actually paid for this shit?
Now I'm starting to think Sullum is being a disingenuous asshole just so that people like you will sign up and give him money to call him a disingenuous asshole, and I can't decide whether or not to be angry or impressed.
In pro wrestling, the heel’s job is to piss off enough people that they purchase a ticket to the show to see the babyface kick the heel’s ass.
babyface
Robby or Britschigi?
Hellooooo Sailor.
"“Oh yeah, these new numbers definitely show that we were wrong, but the numbers aren’t trustworthy anymore because they don’t match these other numbers we don’t ever talk about. They were for sure trustworthy before though. Oh and you’re talking about 2022, well what about the assumptions for 2023?”
They did this for the constant jobs numbers revisions too.
This is what happens when you have a captured and corrupt press who doesn't only not hold them to account, but actively participates in the deception.
It doesn't hurt when many cities are now run by blacks, especially stupid, corrupt blacks who want to legalize every form of criminality so's dey don sen no mo po black yutes to prison an sheit.
Between Harris and Trump?
No.
Between Reason and Trump.
Reason bought the lies and spread them--even while Trump and the right were saying that they were lies.
YOU were wrong.
WE were right.
Word!!
Resign KMW and Sullum!
And Boehm.
Harris says, "Americans are safer now than when we took office."”
I don’t remember Harris being involved in crime fighting during the Biden administration. Or has she changed her pronouns to “we” and “us”?
In Sullum's head, there is only one Presidential campaign this year, and it is abbreviated:
Since the beginning of this year's abbreviated presidential campaign,
What a goddamned retard.
Kween Kamala now uses the royal 'we'.
We need Reason to publish a deep dive into this linguistic trickery.
As Open Borders Czar, she has helped import criminals that have affected the crime rates.
She didnt change her pronouns, just her czar designation.
If you were a Californian, you became safer once she took a job out of state.
I know a lot of commenters are upset there was no mea culpa from Sullum, but I am happy he published this at all.
golf clap for saving a shred of credibility.
Not really. He still defends being wrong and how this doesn't prove Trump is right. Meanwhile still downplay the crim victim survey which shows an increase.
Published it reluctantly and strategically.
Is a mea culpa called for? I think all of Sullum's anti-Trump crime articles were written after the stealth update. Like nearly everyone, he missed the sleight of hand, but did he say anything shown to be wrong by these new numbers?
OK fact checking myself:
Nevermind. Sullum wrote quite a few of these articles before the stealth update.
The problem with the original articles is the underlying data was easily proven wrong. You could pull up the homicides they used by city and find 0 for LA and 0 for New Orleans, does that even come close to passing the sniff test with you? This was published in the WSJ at the time Sullum was penning his first diatribes and never acknowledged.
No it doesn't pass the sniff test
Following the release of the FBI’s annual crime report last month, U.S. Rep. Dan Bishop, a Republican running for attorney general in North Carolina, shared and later deleted a retweet on X that falsely claimed the FBI’s data showed zero homicides in Los Angeles and New Orleans last year. In fact, FBI data showed that the Los Angeles Police Department reported 325 homicides, while New Orleans police reported 198 in 2023.
https://stateline.org/2024/10/04/crime-is-down-fbi-says-but-politicians-still-choose-statistics-to-fit-their-narratives/
Why are there no hits in this article when I Ctrl-F Muir?
Since crime control is mainly a state and local function, it would be unfair to hold Trump responsible for the 2020 surge in reported violent crime. But by the same token, it is implausible to suggest that the current president (let alone his vice president) is responsible for the 2022 surge in violent victimizations recorded by the NCVS.
The 2020 crime surge was because of Democrats. Same as the 2022 surge. How do we know this? Because Democrats. Thus it is known.
Because Dems at all levels (see Walz) embraced the Antifa and BLM violence and defund the police.
So fucking broken.
Where is your minimal mea culpa. Need me to bring up the original thread comments?
I really don’t care what comments you bring up, loser. Only a half a dozen imbeciles give a shit, and none of them have ever added anything to a conversation except insults. So have at it. Have fun.
I think this is my favorite. But there are a few.
sarcasmic 4 weeks ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
If the numbers confirmed what Trump is saying, the same people who say the FBI is a bunch of liars would be saying their numbers are unimpeachable.
Looking like projection of your own behaviors again. Lol.
In that thread you see those not broken or retarded pointing our the problems with the statistics and the crime survey while you supported them blindly because of your Trump hate and love of government.
Fucking broken.
Like I said. There’s nothing you can say that will impress anyone who can tie their own shoes.
Poor sarc
Even your insults stopped at the 3rd grade. Wow.
Needz moar Disclaimer.
If the numbers confirmed what Trump is saying, the same people who say the FBI is a bunch of liars would be saying their numbers are unimpeachable.
He's not wrong. How do you know that the FBI statistics are correct *this time*? You don't, but you are not spending one iota of effort to try to argue why they are wrong *this time*. Gee I wonder why.
"How do you know that the FBI statistics are correct *this time*? You don’t"
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha...
Another keeper. Jeffy definitely isn't earning his fifty cents lately.
Go look at jeffs comments in the prior thread lol. Now he can't trust the numbers. Not when it helped his narrative lol.
Because it’s incredibly obvious that crime is up, except to a filthy lying democrat shill. Like you.
If you had bothered to look up thread, there’s a bunch of people saying that we can’t trust these numbers either…
And there are lots of crime statistics that simply did not add up to what the FBI was telling us previously.
I still don't believe the FBI much, but when someone admits to a terrible error (intentional lie?) they are much more likely to be telling you something closer to the truth, but possibly not exactly true.
Get it? They got caught and have provided at least a partial mea culpa.
Ya, its sure a big stretch to believe the crime could have been caused by the people who govern the deep blue areas where crime is rampant, and who are soft on crime and want to defund the police.
Ya, no way the crime was *those* peoples fault.
Those Democrats are like police in intersections, directing crime hither and yon.
"You! Murder over here!"
"You! Flashmob other there!"
I wish I could say never go full retard, but it seems you've decided to live your life full retard the last few days.
He said that crime is caused by the people who govern, idiot.
cleary its a result of the way they govern, dont be obtuse
Not the way they shake their hips while they direct crime like traffic?
Politicians don’t cause crime. At worst they encourage it by being lax in enforcement. But saying they cause crime is like blaming a girl for getting raped because she didn’t fight back hard enough (now Jesse and ML are competing with each other over who can first post some quote of mine related to Saint Babbitt, no link of course because they want to hide context, that will somehow, in the minds of them and other really stupid people, prove I’m a hypocrite and negate everything I said).
Defend the state at all costs.
Don't you dare call him a Democrat.
You know he’s approaching rock bottom when some of his imaginary friends stop hanging out with him.
He's still the smartest one of his imaginary friends.
>>The latter narrative took a hit recently when the FBI quietly revised its 2022 numbers
I can think of better names for your garage band than "The latter narrative"
Wong Like Ron Bailey
More Testing Needed
Have we gotten all the news outlets that were dunking on Trump for being "fact checked" on this topic and spreading "disinformation" to print retractions and admit he was completely correct, and the mods were actually spreading disinformation? Oh, still crickets from them...
Honestly at this point, we are going to see evidence come out that the judge went even further beyond normal bounds (further than we already know he did) to force the jury to convict Trump so they media and DNC could have the story of "CONviCteHd FehLuNN!!" for the election cycle, and when its overturned they will be dead silent about shouting the farce from the rooftops.
Just to be clear:
The new numbers show that crime in 2023 is DOWN, no matter how you calculate it.
The numbers for the 2022 were revised based on new data EXACTLY AS THEY HAVE BEEN EVERY YEAR for as long as I've been paying attention.
Any your complaint is that the size of the 2023 decline is larger because the 2022 numbers are now higher? Seriously?
Nothing about this is remotely unusual. The author is using innumeracy to score political points.
>>The author is using innumeracy to score political points.
don't confuse him with the "innumeracy"
It does no such thing. 2023 numbers still have missing data dumdum. Just like the year Long monthly unemployment revisions didn’t. They still had to revise an entire year down 1M.
2023 hasn't been corrected yet retard.
You're missing the point. The point is that they lied in order to sabotage Trump because they're leftists who answer to leftists. If they were telling the truth they would have said that crime plummeted while Trump was president and skyrocketed since Biden got elected. Because that would have helped Trump. But they didn't. Which means they're leftist liars.
Coping that his blind trust in government and rejection of all criticism, including citations, blows up in his face. Again. Hasn't learned a single lesson in 6 years.
What kind of stupid narrative are you trying to build now? I trust government? Haaaa ha ha ha ha ha! Really. I, the famed hater of police, who refuses to vote because I don't trust any candidates, who views most laws as suggestions, who despises government on most levels, who would be happy with a minimalist state that enforced criminal laws with victims, provided courts, a military in the case of armed invasion, and not much else, blindly trusts the government?
Haaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha! The stupid! It burns! Holy fuck.
Actions speak louder than words.
Yes.
Next question.
He seemed upset yesterday when he thought you might be getting a tax break on something.
He is pro taxes now. Has been for months.
He’s always the opposite of Trump.
<I, the famed hater of police
You're the famed hater of police... sometimes.
The point is they lied. Period. Full stop.
Oh, and that certain posters and writers here took the “fact check” at face value as a quick dunk on Trump because he’s even more wrong than JD Vance.
The point is that they lied in order to sabotage Trump because they’re leftists who answer to leftists.
Possibly true. More likely they lied to cover up their incompetence and make it look like they are doing a good job. Trump is simply collateral damage with which they are very comfortable.
No everyone is a leftist shitbag, there are some plain old vanilla shitbags.
Please show your work by pointing out another year prior to 2021 when they managed to miss 1000 murders, let alone 1600+
As the Trump campaign tells it, "homicides are skyrocketing," and violent crime has risen dramatically since Trump left office.
While the first claim is inconsistent with data from multiple sources, the second claim finds support in the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which does not cover homicides ... (snip)
Why does this article exist ? I will never get my 15 minutes back.
Learn to notice the author. It saves a lot of time here.
Yeah I don't read Sullum beyond the headline.
The FBI, back in the day, was J. Edgar Hoover's personal toy.
Now the FBI is the Gestapo of the ruling elites in DC, especially the democrats.
Anyone who trusts the contemporary FBI stats is a fool.
Sullum is a TDS-addled slimy pile of shit who needs to FOAD.
Again, even these crime stats revised upward are lies.
OK, it is a 4.5% increase in violent crime. Bad enough. Tie it to the prevalent philosophy that what's mine is mine and what's yours is also mine. But how is 4.5% "skyrocketing?" Do Republicans and Democrats always need to use hyperbole when making political statements?
I mean for one metric you can look at the estimate to business for shoplifting costs. A metric reported yearly.
Shoplifting up 16% from 2022 to 2023 and up another 24% from 2023 to 2024. Skyrocketing. But generally not a "violent crime."
The LP used to have a monthly "intellectual ammunition" column for candidates and advocates to be able to use instead of broad rhetoric that could easily be proved false or vastly overstated.
Edgelords pounced
I wasn’t aware violent crimes were the only crimes allowed to be discussed.
I have it on good authority apartment takeovers by gangs is also skyrocketing.
"...Shoplifting up 16% from 2022 to 2023 and up another 24% from 2023 to 2024. Skyrocketing. But generally not a “violent crime.”..."
Unless you're in one of those gang-emptied stores by armed gangs.
Are you daft?
Ah, the lawerly definition of 'skyrocketing'.
Reporter: No, Venezuelan gangs have not taken over "the entire city of Aurora".
Citizen Journalist: I never made that claim.
Reporter: Shut up, racist *blocks citizen journalist on twitter/x*
I guess we're back to deciding what the acceptable number of apartment complexes can be taken over by Venezuelan gangs. And then the ensuing argument of what a "handful" is.
Narrator: And the time machine opened and out stepped 1994 Rick James into the year 2024.
Mysterious man in toga: Mr. James, I'm the Soros D.A. of Christmas future here to show you how crime has not skyrocketed. You come from a time when the crack epidemic is riding high, and you lived in a metropolitan area that suffered its direct effect.
Rick James: Oh yeah, I used to have to drive through Hilltop neighborhood in Tacoma. That was rough. All the boarded up houses-- and the people who lived in that neighborhood told me that almost all of them are crack houses. Bad stuff!
Toga wearing man: Indeed. Now, tour our city and revel in how much things have improved.
*Rick James begins tour of all the same areas he spent as a much younger man*
Echoey voice in Rick James's head: Whoa, what's... this? That's a lot of broken down RVs parked along Beach Drive. And yikes, why are there piles of garbage everywhere. Maybe something going on this weekend. *keeps driving* Jeezopete that's a lot of tents... are those... mountain bikes? And holy fucking shit, there's graffiti like... everywhere. And that's one fucking big homeless camp over there on i5... no wait, there's two, no four, no, six... no wait, 10, no, 15... krikey what's going on here? *goes downtown* Everything is... closed... it's like a ghost town down here. This is sad. Oh that place I used to love to go is... gone... 'for lease signs' everywhere. And man, lot of crazy ranting people on every street corner. Wow, that guy just threatened to stab me in the eye... this feels creepy... and what's that awful smell? *goes to Target and Safeway* Why is everything behind a locked cabinet? Laundry detergent? Liquor? TOOTHPASTE? Jesus h Christ... the fuck is ... what's that... those two guys just ran out of the store with their arms full of shit and no one did anything... this is... wait, why are 1/3 of the store shelves empty?
Rick James to Toga man: Can I please go back to the crack epidemic? It felt safer.
Toga Man: So you agree with the FBI statistics then, much safer, much better, and crime is skyrocketing...down.
Yes we know. Your "gut feelings" and your hazy 30-year-old memories are the true measure of reality.
Mundane items not locked up at Target and Safeway is not a 'hazy 30 year old memory' it's a stone cold fact. As Liz Wolf posted the other day:
This is weird. Violence doubled in many cities the day after civil unrest and the 3rd precinct was burnt by a mob in Minneapolis on May 28, 2020. I suppose we can debate causality, but to deny or be unaware of the reality?
But keep gaslighting away, Jr.
But keep gaslighting away, Jr.
That's what he's paid for.
You are the one who is gaslighting, by trying to replace facts and data with anecdotes and stories and 30-year-old memories.
“The rape and murder statistics must be wrong, because at my local Target, the toilet paper is behind a locked cabinet!”
Just say that you lack the ability to judge statistics and numbers and so that is why you dismiss them all and instead “go with your gut” and your anecdotes and with what you observe in your daily shopping trips to Target and you claim that these things correspond to reality in every city everywhere. It’s not our fault that you’re an innumerate moron, just don’t push your bullshit onto everyone else.
I suppose not only is the FBI lying, but all three of Sullum’s other sources are lying too. Are they all in cahoots with Democrats? Are they all funded by Soros? Is your YouTube feed going to claim that they are all part of one giant globalist Davos conspiracy?
Incidentally, why did the crime statistics suddenly become an item of pressing concern? Could it possibly because you are dishonestly shilling for Trump and will push whatever lie is most suitable to drag him over the finish line?
His recollections are accurate. As are mine, and I concur.
Now fuck off Pedo Jeffy.
Retailer: Hello, 7 people just smash-n-grabbed my store!
Police: Yeah, we're not taking those reports any more, just report it to your insurer.
Sullum: FBI Statistics show crime down diggity down!
Actually, Aurora these days is quite large, so no surprise that violent crimes, apartment building takeovers, etc, are not universal there. Thanks to the CU Medical School moving to the old Fitzsimmons Army Hospital, it now has the best doctors in the Multistate region. And it surrounds the new (DIA) airport (actually the land under the airport used to be in Aurora, but was given to Denver because that city wasn’t going to give up the biggest airport in the region any other way).
Aurora has long been the armpit of the Denver metro area. But it’s nicer parts have probably been expanding faster than the older, closer in, parts, have been deteriorating.
Tell us inflation is under control by citing the CPI.
So, Sullum cites three other data sources which indicate that violent crime is falling.
So, are they all wrong as well? Are they all colluding with Democrats to get KamKam elected?
How do you know the FBI statistics are correct now? Maybe their previous numbers were more accurate than the current ones. How do you know?
Could it be that most of you really don't give a shit about trying to discover objective reality, and only breathe air in order to push narratives?
How do you know the FBI statistics are correct now?
They are still undercounting, so no.
Solution: report all fucking crimes regardless of which race that implicates.
How do you know the FBI statistics are correct now?
They’re not correct now. They’re still too low because of the sharp drop in people who bother to report things like theft, break-ins and robberies. Oh, and the fact entire high-crime metro areas don't even report to the FBI.
They’re still too low because of the sharp drop in people who bother to report things like theft, break-ins and robberies.
What "sharp drop"? You mean anecdotes? The 2024 National Crime Victimization Survey (which BTW is Trump's source for his 'skyrocketing' claims) says that 44.7% of violent crimes were reported to police in 2023, which is actually a little higher than in 2022. There doesn't appear to be a "sharp drop".
https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/cv23.pdf
Oh, and the fact entire high-crime metro areas don’t even report to the FBI.
That is not true. The 2023 statistics include ~95% of the population, which includes every major metro area.
https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/
Maybe try looking at the actual data?
Oh, and what about those other three data sources that Sullum cited. Are they all lying too?
I just received a local election flier (Democrat, barely worth mentioning). The word "safety" appears no less than 9 times. The times are a changin', Reason.
Will they issue a corrected version?
In Maryland, the Alsobrooks senate campaign is running on crime coming down 50% (from the summer of love numbers) and the fact she hired more police personnel. With Obama stumping for how she’s going to protect our precious freedoms.
So, the FBI quietly revised crime statistics to show more accurately what every fucking normal person's been able to see for the past 4 years; that is, people who aren't wholly deranged on the subject of Donald Trump.
The Harris campaign, by contrast, prefers the FBI’s numbers
So does Reason, especially since the election season really got fired up. Somehow they claim this helps Chase Oliver, of all people.
HAhAHAHA GFY Sullum
"a huge 30 percent spike in homicides, which may have been related to the pandemic, the unrest that followed George Floyd's death, or both."
I have never seen any explanation of why the pandemic or George Floyd's death should have caused homicides to rise. How can that just be stated? What is the linkage?
Whoa there author! Your final sentence,” But by the same token, it is implausible to suggest that the current president (let alone his vice president) is responsible for the 2022 surge in violent victimizations recorded by the NCVS,”makes the entire article sophomoric. This can only be true if you ignore the 25 million illegal aliens the existing administration encouraged to enter this country. How do you bring in that many people w/o admitting an assault on the cultural norms & mores of the people who live there? You can’t w/o a blindfold.
At Democrat run town of Chicago, the brilliant mayor, Brandon Johnson, ordered the shutting off of all "shotspotter" sensors in the city, thus making it safer for the locals and besides, shot spotter be all rayciss an sheit.
Chicago to date:
Shot and killed: 453
Shot and wounded: 2110
Total Shot: 2563
Total Homicides: 512
The democrats rejoice is the destruction of another right wing, extremist plot to send more 'po black men to prison.
Revising numbers once or twice can be discounted as sloppy inefficient government employees, but when this pattern is repeated time an time again it is worthy investigating to see if this is an attempt to coverup, obscure, conflate, sway for political advantage.
If you smell a rat, there probably is a rat. There is a very high probability that the halls of congress, senate and every other government agency is full of rats that don't serve the people, but rather their party or personal interests.
JS;dr
Last month, the FBI estimated a 3 percent drop in reported violent crime between 2022 and 2023, which Lott says would have been half as large but for the change in the 2022 numbers.
This sentence is both unintelligible and doesn't match the UPWARD revision of the crime numbers (so maybe he said "twice as large" not "half as large")?
Anyway, someone call rewrite.
The FBI caught lying about the statistics its collecting - but Sullum still trusts those numbers.
The mental gymnastics required to not say reason licked fbi booty when reporting the original number is, telling.
"Oooh, we're reason. We are above all that. Except when we're under the fbi covers."
Could the decrease in crime reports be due to a lack of trust with police instead of a decrease in crime? If so, then using crime reports as evidence for a decrease in crime is useless as we are only seeing a decrease in reports, not a decrease in crime.