Campus Protest Hypocrisy Reveals Need For Student Education on Free Speech
As Israel-Hamas demonstrations continue in the new school year, the misunderstanding of free speech is fueling disruption and hypocrisy on campuses.

With the start of the academic year, campuses across the nation are preparing for more protests over the Israel-Hamas conflict. As students return to campus, the underlying issues that ignited these demonstrations—misunderstandings and misapplications of free speech—remain unaddressed. These protests have revealed a pressing challenge for universities: upholding the principles of free speech amid modern political activism.
While many protests last semester were peaceful, others have disrupted campus operations, led to altercations and vandalism, and made some students feel unsafe on campus. The actions of some students, coupled with the reactions of some administrators, highlight a troubling lack of understanding of free speech principles. Preserving a campus environment that encourages the contestation of ideas, allows dissent, and enables scientific discovery requires a steadfast commitment to free speech principles from administrators and students.
The Sheila and Robert Challey Institute for Global Innovation and Growth's most recent survey of college students nationwide includes important insights on the state of free speech on campus. An encouraging 89 percent of respondents say that students have a right to engage in peaceful protests related to the Israel-Hamas war. However, many students confuse free speech with illiberal actions that undermine it. About 40 percent of students support occupying buildings or staging "die-ins" to prevent normal activities from occurring on campus, 27 percent think students have the right to disrupt class to protest, and 20 percent believe it is okay to shout down a campus speaker addressing the Israel-Hamas war. While these actions may be seen as forms of protest, they hinder the free exchange of ideas and limit the ability of others to express their viewpoints.
This misunderstanding is most pronounced by students who identify as politically liberal and who most likely claim to support free speech (93 percent of respondents do) in the context of the Israel-Hamas war. However, politically liberal students also show the highest acceptance of anti-free speech actions. Among these students, 55 percent think it is OK to disrupt campus by occupying buildings, 37 percent think it is okay to disrupt class with protests, 26 percent believe it is acceptable to shout down a speaker, and 18 percent say it's OK to block a speaker from entering an auditorium where a speech on the Israel-Hamas is scheduled.
Not only are many students confused about what free speech entails, but they also seem to be hypocritical in supporting free speech on some subjects but not others. The apparent enthusiasm for what they consider to be free speech in the context of the Israel-Hamas war is contrasted with a belief by 62 percent of all students—and 74 percent of liberal-leaning students—that professors should be reported for making controversial statements about affirmative action, police shootings, sex and gender, guns, and vaccines. Even worse, 56 percent of all students and 63 percent of liberal-leaning students favor reporting other students for saying something they deem offensive.
The students' confusion about the principles of free speech, and their lack of tolerance for different points of view, pose an important challenge for universities. But it remains crucial for universities to stand firm and defend students' rights to express their views, no matter how distasteful the views may be to any individual. They also need to teach students the limits of free speech: Violence, disrupting campus activities, shouting down speakers one disagrees with, and intimidating or harassing others are not free speech. This commitment to both freedom and responsibility can provide a sense of reassurance and support to the audience.
Recently, a number of universities adopted the Chicago Statement and the Kalven Committee's Report on the University's Role in Political and Social Action—guiding principles produced by the University of Chicago intended to demonstrate a commitment to freedom of speech and institutional neutrality. Harvard University's recent announcement is a significant development. The university declared that neither the school nor its leaders would issue official statements on public matters that would not directly affect its core function. These are important signals of a commitment to free expression on campus, and their recent adoption suggests an awakening to problems of intolerance on campus.
Universities play a critical role in cultivating new ideas and fostering groundbreaking discoveries. To maintain their position as bastions of innovation, it is imperative that they not only adopt but also actively advocate for the principles of free speech. By doing so, they can create a healthy environment where free expression and rigorous debate flourish, preparing students to engage with and contribute to a diverse and pluralistic society.
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These protests have revealed a pressing challenge for universities: upholding the principles of free speech amid modern political activism.
Nothing that can't be solved with summary expulsions and then a bulldozer.
+1 This is college. Save the tuition and months of book learnin' for things like quantum chemistry or quantum cryptography, which can't be learned otherwise, and go with 4 hours of skull crackin'. Get the same amount of learning for a *fraction* of the time and cost.
These same unemployable little shits will be demanding loan forgiveness from the next administrations.
It’s not political activism when the UN International Court of Justice is currently trying Israel for committing genocide AND has ruled that Israel stop their offensive, which Israel ignores.
Israel is a signatory to the UN genocide convention.
These students are protesting Israel reneging on its obligations and the complicity of their own governments in the crimes against humanity.
They are protesting all support for genocide, from their schools, businesses and government all of whom are deep into the pockets of wealthy Jewish donors.
The only genocide is being conducted by Palestinians, and against Israel. You are a liar. By your own belief system, you should be lawfully executed for your multitude of lies.
Or just save the taxpayers some money, and take care of it yourself. You know, like your hero Adolph Hitler did.
If there is a genocide. Hamas using human shields and the Palestinians that allow that are taking part in the genocide of their own people.
A demonstrated liar denies the reality of the United Nations.
An idiot who advocates for immunity for a government that sends in the army to kill the women and children hostages in a bank robbery. Then calls them shields.
Netanyahu is responsible for telling the IDF to commit genocide by referencing the Jewish biblical “god approved” genocide of women and children with the story of AMALEK. Clearly inciting genocide. With over 24000 non combatant women and children intentionally targeted and killed and IDF soldiers on record rejoicing about it referencing Amalek, the effect of Netanyahus instructions are clear.
Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant said Israel was fighting “human animals” and that they will be “starved of food and water” which Israel has done and continues to do.
Amichay Eliyahu, the minister for heritage, suggested dropping a nuclear bomb on Gaza. Israel isn’t supposed to have nuclear weapons. Saddam Hussein was hung for crimes against humanity and he didn’t even have WMD much less threaten to use them.
The country’s mainly ceremonial president, Isaac Herzog, who described Palestinians as “an entire nation out there that is responsible” demonstrates the genocidal intention.
These statements in combination with their actual execution clearly meets the UN definition and criteria for genocide aka holocaust.
A pile of Nazi shit shows up to spout lies and make an ass of himself once again.
FOAD, asshole.
You’re a feeble minded fuckwit who calls anyone who exposes jewsraels atrocities a Nazi. You’re a cartoon.
Your feeble attempt to deny what Israeli leaders have said has been fact checked. Fuck you’re stupid.
It is evidence for the prosecution in Israel’s ICJ genocide trial.
Take your own advice.
You ARE a literal nazi, and an Islamist. You want to exterminate Jews, and will use any flimsy excuse to make that happen.
Oh, and refuted.
You are incapable of dealing with the refutation handed to you many times. You are, simply, an ignoramus incapable of understanding the facts handed to you.
FOAD, slimy pile of Nazi shit.
Just like this time eh?
Hahaha
"Just like this time eh?"
Yes, exactly like this time; all bullshit, all the time.
A pile of Nazi shit shows up to spout lies and make an ass of himself once again.
FOAD, asshole.
Right; the irony.
What can I say but I’m pleased with the optics.
Refuted.
Refuted.
Refuted
Every if every bogus thing you said there was true, they have no business camping out indefinitely in the middle of campus lawn.
All your mindless anti-Semitism is just a deflection from that simple point. It's you trying to change the subject like some racist honkey who drops the N-word for shock and awe, to pull the attention away from the actual subject and rabbit hole the discussion away from its merit and onto your prejudices.
Palestinians are Semites.
Genocide is happening.
I love me some hate speech, cause it's speech.
Like invoking Godwin’s law? Anyone who exposes the atrocities of Jewsrael is a Nazi or antisemite eh?
I like to challenge fuckwits who doubt the truth of what I say to prove it.
If you think you or anyone else has ever refuted anything that I’ve said, clearly describe it with correctly applied logic or science and don’t forget to post a link to it so we can all see it.
This is where you cut and run to join the liar crowd.
Anyone who exposes the atrocities of Jewsrael is a Nazi or antisemite eh?
You haven't "exposed" anything. You've just spouted a bunch of over-rehearsed anti-Semitic nonsense you didn't even come up with on your own. Like the useful idiot you are, you almost certainly get your inane talking points from a single source, never verify them because they confirm your biases, and then blast them as often and to as many people as you can pretending it makes any difference to the actual issue.
It doesn't. You're a stooge, Rob. Clown world, through and through. I suspect you're actively pursuing a job in "LoL JoUrNaLiSm," in fact.
And yet you nor anyone else has ever refuted anything I’ve said.
You’re simply a bigot who denies what you can’t refute.
You do you. I’m pleased with the optics.
I'll certainly be pleased with it when you're thrown in a mass grave with your lefty boos.
Said with the all the shame of anonymity.
Really, nobody would want to be accountable for shit talking like that from behind your computer screen.
Refuted.
He doesn't even know what's being refuted. He can't name it.
You claim to have refuted what I’ve said but can’t provide even a single example of it.
That’s on you fuckwit.
Nothing I have said, AND I HAVE SAID A LOT, has ever been refuted here.
You did prove that you are a liar.
I’m pleased with these optics and will use this discourse whenever I like to demonstrate these facts.
What would you like refuted that isn't obviously so?
Anything would be more than you or anyone else has refuted to date.
Fill your boots.
No, get specific. You're the one Clown Worlding here. What specifically would you like refuted?
You are the complete idiot who said I have already been refuted.
Just prove that. Specifically describe using correctly applied logic and science how something that I’ve said has been refuted and provide a link to it so we can all fact check YOUR STATEMENT.
If you don’t do this, YOU ARE DEMONSTRATING YOURSELF A LIAR again.
What is it you think you've refuted? Because I'm not seeing any refutation of anything from you - just mindless Jew-hating soundbytes that you didn't come up with on your own.
You tried this earlier too - claiming you "exposed" something. What do you think you exposed? Why can't you just say, "I exposed..." and "I refuted..."
Then we can see if any of it actually holds water. (Spoiler: it won't.)
So contrary to your claims that I have been refuted, you can’t prove it by providing even a single example.
Nothing I have said, AND I HAVE SAID A LOT, has ever been refuted here.
You did prove that you are a liar.
I’m pleased with these optics and will use this discourse whenever I like to demonstrate these facts.
If it were Nazis instead of Jews committing this holocaust in Gaza, and our governments were in full support with them sending arms and funding, who should be at every protest and who would oppose any protest?
Are Jews “special” or something?
A pile of Nazi shit shows up to spout lies and make an ass of himself once again.
FOAD, asshole.
What holocaust in Gaza? You're talking about something that doesn't exist.
The one Israel is on trial for committing in the United Nations International Court of Justice.
Are you going to deny that too?
Yeah, the one where Israel was not found guilty of any war crime.
Hamas needs to be put on trial and Sinwar jailed once again as a war criminal.
The United Nations International Court of Justice genocide case against Israel is still underway.
“Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment
of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip
(South Africa v. Israel)”
In fact on September 13 2024
“.Chile has become the eighth state to announce that it has joined South Africa’s ICJ case over the Israeli genocidal aggression on Gaza.”
Your bullshit claim is missing a cite.
Not “found guilty” yet is not the same as being “found not guilty”
Yes, because I'm fairly certain that's already been resolved.
And the facts do not lie with your narrative.
Prove it fuckwit.
https://x.com/Osint613/status/1834215559728115910
Also, for the lulz, "South Africa took just 83 days after October 7th to file a case against Israel at the ICJ, submitting a 84-page document claiming Israel's actions were 'genocidal in character.'
Now, 11 months later, they're asking for more time to gather evidence."
Gosh, why can't they find it! Those crafty Jews!
Even if that link, which I don’t have access to, is true, it doesn’t refute what I have said.
It sounds like an article about legal maneuvering.
Israel is on trial in the UN International Court of Justice for committing genocide in Gaza.
Ron is pretty much like a flat earther. "You can't refute anything I say"
You are precisely a liar.
While the flat earth concept has been refuted with correctly applied logic and science, neither you nor anyone else here has ever refuted anything that I’ve said.
As long as it hurts the left, it's okay.
They’re special to you, you’re obsessed with exterminating them.
What makes you believe that I want that? You certainly can’t prove that I’ve ever said that.
Do tou think that criminalizing lying, something I do want, will end the practice of Judaism, what constitutes being a Jew?
That may be one outcome when the Kol Nidre, the prayer chanted by all Jews on Yom Kippur, which is also clearly a plan to lie to people, is recognized as the hate speech it is.
Criminalizing lying will end the practice of satanic secret societies, like freemasonry which Jews claim to own and provides for the pyramid scheme of wealth and power. Secrets require lies and vice versa.
Who knows? When Judaism is forced to discard its evil satanic roots, it might still survive. But what for?
That remains to be seen. Let’s criminalize lying and find out.
“Criminalizing lying will end the practice of satanic secret societies”
I don’t see how you can enforce that. Who gets to decide what a “lie” is?
Further, this entire thing you just claimed? It’s not rational. Jews are not heading “secret satanic societies”. That’s an anchronism.
You’re thinking of 17th and 18th century methods of communciating ideas when free speech was not common.
Today people can just have open chats in social media or forums, they don’t need those old constructs, and they have no real power.
Altanticism and the Neo-liberal instiutions that formed the U.N. is where real poltical powers lies, if anywhere. Jews certainly participate in them, but they don’t control them.
If they did, the U.N. and the ICJ wouldn’t be condemning / prosecuting Israel right now.
I’ve researched these subjects for decades.
Lying has been perfected for millennia to coerce people and control populations.
Recognizing conspiracies requires recognizing that they are part of every society and the willingness to explore and challenge taboos and everything you and your ancestors have believed to be true.
This is what I have done. I value truth, reality, above all else and discern, accept and share it with correctly applied logic and science.
Social media is generally not free speech. We see how governments control and censor it, often through third parties.
Secret societies like the Freemasons have more influence today than ever. They are growing and control the narrative in secret with lies.
But they don’t know everything and are scrambling to limit free speech that exposes them.
But ALL people can’t be part of the conspiracy or there would be nobody to victimize. And sometimes even past members have a change of heart and expose a little more.
You’re wise to challenge what I say with correctly applied logic and science. You should do that with everything anyone says.
But beware bigotry. It will lead you to refuse to consider counter arguments that you would otherwise recognize that you can’t refute and just might be true.
Truth is reality. There is nothing more rational. Similarly there is nothing more irrational than lying.
Like these anachronisms?
Here’s what these leading JEWS have to say about THEIR ownership of Freemasonry.
THE JEWISH TRIBUNE, New York, Oct. 28, 1927, Cheshvan 2, 5688, Vol. 91, No. 18: “Masonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic ritual and what is left?”
LA VERITE ISRAELITE, Jewish paper 1861, IV, page 74: “The spirit of Freemasonry is the spirit of Judaism in its most fundamental beliefs; it is its ideas, its language, it is mostly its organization, the hopes which enlighten and support Israel. It’s crowning will be that wonderful prayer house of which Jerusalem will be the triumphal centre and symbol.”
LE SYMBOLISM, July, 1928: “The most important duty of the Freemason must be to glorify the Jewish Race, which has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom. You must rely upon the Jewish race to dissolve all frontiers.”
AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FREEMASONRY,Philadelphia, 1906: “Each Lodge is and must be a symbol of the Jewish temple; each Master in the Chair, a representative of the Jewish King; and every Mason a personification of the Jewish workman.”
MANUAL OF FREEMASONRY, by Richard Carlile: “The Grand Lodge Masonry of the present day is wholly Jewish.”
THE FREEMASON, April 2, 1930, quoting Br. Rev. S. McGowan: “Freemasonry is founded on the ancient law of Israel. Israel has given birth to the moral beauty which forms the basis of Freemasonry.”
Rabbi Br. Isaac Wise, in The Israelite of America, March 8, 1866: “Masonry is a Jewish institution whose history, degrees, charges, passwords and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end.”
Benjamin Disraeli, Jew, Prime Minister of England, in The Life of Lord George Bentick: “At the head of all those secret societies, which form provisional governments, men of the Jewish race are to be found.”
LATOMIA, a German Masonic journal, Vol. 12, July 1849, Page 237: “We cannot help but greet socialism (Marxism – Communism) as an excellent comrade of Freemasonry for ennobling mankind, for helping to further human welfare. Socialism and Freemasonry, together with Communism are sprung from the same source.”
BERNARD STILLMAN, Jew, in Hebraic influences on Masonic Symbolism, 1929, quoted The Masonic News, London: “I think I have proved sufficiently that Freemasonry, as what concurs symbolism, lays entirely on a formation which is essentially Jewish.”
O.B. Good, M.A. in The Hidden Hand of Judah, 1936: “The influence of the Jewish Sanhedrin is today more powerful than ever in Freemasonry.”
JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1903, Vol, 5, page 503: “The technical language, symbolism and rites of Freemasonry are full of Jewish ideas and terms … In the Scottish Rite, the dates on official documents are given according to the era and months of the Jewish calendar, and use is made of the Hebraic alphabet.”
B’NAI B’RITH MAGAZINE, Vol. 13, page 8, quoting rabbi and mason Magnin: “The B’nai B’rith are but a makeshift. Everywhere that Freemasonry can admit that it is Jewish in its nature as well as in its aims, the ordinary lodges are sufficient for the task.
The ADL (Anti-Defamation League) of B’nai B’rith is a totally Jewish controlled organization with its main goal to destroy Christianity. (Also, the B’nai B’rith form a super-Masonic lodge where no “Gentiles” are admitted.)
TRANSACTIONS OF THE JEWISH HISTORICAL SOCIETY Vol. 2, p 156: “The Coat of Arms used by the Grand Lodge of England is entirely composed of Jewish symbols. FREEMASONS WORSHIP LUCIFER!
This is what I have done. I value truth, reality, above all else and discern, accept and share it with correctly applied logic and science.
Yea, but you seem to really have a problem with facts and established historical record.
Wait - wait, don't reply, I'll be back in a second.
...
...
...
OK.
Now tell me all about how the Jews rewrote all the history books and control all of information.
*eats popcorn*
You do you.
A former Freemason celebrity has a change of heart.
Freemasonry, brought here by colonialism, is a secret satanic cult. A pyramid scheme to get power and wealth in an otherwise civilized society through secrets and lies.
One third of the founders belonged to that satanic cult and their power and reach has only grown today.
We don’t know their plans and we can’t believe what they say. We should ask ourselves what kind of society needs to be secret and why.
A few Freemasons have left to disclose their agenda under the threat of death.
Altiyan Childs exposed the intent and spread of Freemasonry, that Jews claim ownership of.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WY1mwcUR0xU
Fascinating. Tell me more.
*dumps $100,000 into REYN*
If I did have a problem with facts, wouldn’t they refute something I’ve said?
But you can’t demonstrate that.
Apparently the “problem with facts” is yours.
Crickets from the peanut gallery.
Nooooo, come on Rob. I need more insane conspiracy stuff if I'm going to win the anti-Semite bingo game.
You are the complete idiot who said I have already been refuted.
Just prove that. Specifically describe using correctly applied logic and science how something that I’ve said has been refuted and provide a link to it so we can all fact check YOUR STATEMENT.
If you don’t do this, YOU ARE DEMONSTRATING YOURSELF A LIAR again.
You're really full of shit, aren't you.
Prove it fuckwit.
It should be noted, there are a number of judges who will NOT be hiring out of Harvard or Columbia.
A number of companies have pulled back from DEI as well. Let's see if Boeing is going to retain DEI especially after the strike.
We also need the airlines to pull out of DEI……
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7rT6BZLP5M
There is no hypocrisy, the left has always been anti-semitic; they just stopped hiding it.
Also intolerant of other ideas, and willing to shed their skinsuit of “freedom” to oppress their opponents at the drop of a hat.
See Dalton Trumbo and Woody Guthrie in WWII
Not long ago the left would call felons "justice involved" and demand their right not be removed due to justice involvement.
Now the dems are having themes like the cop vs the felon as if the felon is the enemy again.
Unless the felon is named Trump.
"Semitism and anti-Semitism are tricks. We always use them."
Shulamit Aloni.
Also JFree and trueman.
"An encouraging 89 percent of respondents say that students have a right to engage in peaceful protests related to the Israel-Hamas war. "
The main problem here is that they are in favor of peaceful protests...for their chosen cause. The people on the opposite side? Not so much. It's just that simple.
The students’ confusion about the principles of free speech, and their lack of tolerance for different points of view, pose an important challenge for universities.
The student’s confusion originates because they live in a country that does not tolerate free speech or tolerance for different points of view on some topics – at all. Combine that with being young and stupid and taught that free speech is only about impotent street theater rather than any actual change. Well it’s not surprising they are confused and do stupid energetic things.
The problem ain’t the students though. It is our – adults, media, pols, etc – failure to allow discussion on some topics that is the problem. And that is not new either.
Funny how these little Hitlers in training are 100% unwilling to permit differing viewpoints on their assorted campuses.
They learn from their parents on threads and rags like this.
They learn it from their Marxist teachers.
Having prog parents is the single largest predictor if a child is going to end up a prog.
The Hippies? The major ones all had very left-wing parents.
This whole "rebellion" thing is bunk. Doubly so today with those kids so scared of not being in the group that they are just NPCs.
"About 40 percent of students support occupying buildings or staging "die-ins" to prevent normal activities from occurring on campus... This misunderstanding is most pronounced by students who identify as politically liberal ."
It's the author who's doing the misunderstanding here. Normal activities? Like universities enabling and encouraging apartheid, ethic cleansing, collective punishment, and even genocide? Such activities may be normal to the author, but they are anathema to Liberals and have been as long as I remember.
No one ever believes me when I say that there are actually pinko-commie crazies still out there making the arguments that had already reached absurd parody by the late 90s. Then mtrueman shows up to remove all doubt. He always says I should be thanking him, and I do...just not for the reason he thinks.
" Like universities enabling and encouraging apartheid, ethic cleansing, collective punishment, and even genocide?"
Note that he conflates "enabling" and "encouraging". Encouraging is, of course, speech. So what mtrueman sees as "anathema to Liberals" is...speech.
We don't need to go much further than that to understanding the games little commies like mtrueman play. Just as they conflate "encouragement" with "enablement" we know that they conflate "free association" with ethnic cleansing and "self defense" with collective punishment. This isn't to say that ethnic cleansing and collective punishment don't happen, just that we can be assured that mtrueman's definitions won't be helpful.
We don't even need to dive down the torturous rabbit hole of twisted logic that these commies use to say a party is "enabling" genocide, because we know it will be exactly the same bases stolen and leaps of fantasy that allow them to say "free speech" is an anathema to liberalism, and the freedom is slavery.
Cleanse the pinko scum.
"Note that he conflates “enabling” and “encouraging”. Encouraging is, of course, speech. So what mtrueman sees as “anathema to Liberals” is…speech."
That's not conflating. Universities enable genocide by their investments in Israel, the country doing the ethnic cleansing, collective punishing etc. That's why Liberals on campus are calling for their schools to divest. Universities encourage genocide by sending in police to threaten, abuse students and shut down their protests. Making genocide 'normal,' as the author would have it.
You're an intelligent and literate commentator, Overt. But you should know the meaning of the word 'conflate' and how to use it. It means to meld or fuse together. The students say that their schools are encouraging and enabling Israel's criminal behavior. Two different things. That's not conflating any more than someone walking and talking is conflating walking or talking. If you're going to quibble, at least get your vocabulary ducks in a row. Otherwise your punctuation and spelling are beyond reproach, so don't feel too deflated by my criticism.
Ok Misek. We get it. You’re vicious anti semite and a supporter of Hamas terrorism. Very typical of you democrats.
Now why don’t you fuck off back to Stormfront? No one wants your Nazi ass here.
" No one wants your Nazi ass here."
I'm happy that you and others see fit to continue to read my comments. If you can't come up with anything other than bluster and insults in response, that's on you.
You have nothing of substance to offer in the first place. Just democrat pro Islamist fan fiction. So you deserve nothing more.
You’re a loathsome soulless, unclean thing. Begone.
"You have nothing of substance to offer in the first place."
Keep reading. I have hope for you yet.
There's no hope of learning anything other than antisemitic lies from your comments.
FOAD, asshole.
You don’t. Time for you to go.
Zionists make for such horrific debaters.
Antisemite shits do far, far worse, Nazi shit.
Oh come on, you and turd sipper are pretend semites.
So, are you a neo Nazi, or an Islamist?
You might not want him but you need him.
You should know the definitions of genocide and ethnic cleansing, yet you dont
But you and Biden do? A senile corrupt politician and an internet coward? You'll have to do better than that if you want to convince anyone.
Apparently so. You’re just an empty headed, factless, jew hating bigot. Md you voted for Biden.
It's also a great example of misdirection to a different topic altogether. "Normal activities" is the stuff that the students are actually paying the university to provide, like regular classes, and use of and access to campus facilities and amenities.
There are lots of normal activities at universities. The administration's investing in Israeli apartheid, ethnic cleansing, collective punishment and genocide is the one liberal students oppose. It's not as complicated as you seem to think.
None of those things exist, except in your empty head, and in Nazi democrat anti Jewish propaganda.
So are you a Holocaust denier too?
The Holocaust is the greatest hoax of the twentieth century.
Ok, so we have Misek, Misek 2 (Mtrueman), and now Misek 3.
Sarcasmic has been pretty misek-ized lately as well.
It’s a great ideology for half-wits.
So…… blackout drunk Misek?
No, the immediate intended effect of these kinds of actions is to deprive other students and faculty of use of the university services that they pay a lot of money for or are entitled to as part of their compensation. You and other people of your ilk want to think that it will also disrupt how the university invests its money. But none of these actions have any direct effect on that.
"No, the immediate intended effect of these kinds of actions is to deprive other students and faculty of use of the university services that they pay a lot of money for or are entitled to as part of their compensation. "
And of course the administrators are entitled to keep funding genocide. That's what the liberal students are opposing.
" You and other people of your ilk want to think that it will also disrupt how the university invests its money. But none of these actions have any direct effect on that."
Absolutely, I agree. No direct effect? That's why the protests continue. It's not complicated.
"universities enabling and encouraging apartheid, ethic cleansing, collective punishment, and even genocide?"
University support for the palestinians does indeed enable these things, as practiced by Hamas.
You've changed your tune. You oppose apartheid, ethnic cleansing, collective punishment now? What happened to denial and apologia?
Only one side (the palestinians) actually practices those things in reality, as you know but pretend not to.
I'm not pretending not to. Every word I write here is sincere and heartfelt. If you can't deal with that, then shut up, you dishonest fuck.
Then you’re a sincere and heartfelt Islamist neo Nazi. No better than Misek.
Sincere and heartfelt spreading of nonsense as an end in itself.
Look at Nazi boy misconstruman go. Those darn Jews just won't give up and die already.
Fuck you Nazi scum
No, you shut up!
You should just commit suicide at this point. You’re just an unrepentant neo nazi.
No, you shut up!
So you have no objection to being labeled a Nazi? Good. Now that we hav Ethan out of the way, go kill yourself.
Best thing for you really. Your comments are going nowhere.
"So you have no objection to being labeled a Nazi?"
I don't put much stock in what you label me as. As I say, I'm happy that I continue to hold your attention and read my comments.
I don’t put much stock in your right to exist.
Turd sipper, you obviously don’t like him but you need him. You need to hate.
If the students do nit like who a university invests with, don't attend said university. No reason to fuck it up for the students who oppose Hamas and their war crimes.
Neo Marxist/nazi islamists don’t live and let live. They demand obedience to whatever shrill whim is rattling round in their empty little heads. Just like Mtrueman.
WTF is this nonsense? Normal activities at a university are things like going to class, being able to use campus facilities, being obviously Jewish without being harassed.
"Normal activities at a university are things like going to class"
In the class rooms, yes. It's normal for students to go to class. In administration offices, there are no classes. In administration offices, it's normal for administrators to fund Israeli crimes. That is the normal activity the liberal students oppose. It's not all that complicated.
There are no Israeli crimes. But there are endless Palestinian crimes. Talk about that for a change.
Hmmmm, Let’s see….the U.S.S. Cole, the U.S.S. Liberty, 9/11, JFK assassination, AIPAC, SPLC, ADL,
Oh, and American taxpayers have been forced at gunpoint to fork over $130 billion in aid to Israel in the past sixty years.
Excuse me while I don't bow and scrape to the Jew or Israel.
You’re saying Israel assassinated JFK?
And attacked the USS Cole; who knew? JohnZ's knowledge of these events is on the level of butplug's.
Or Misek’s.
They found a bagel on grassy knoll you know.
/S
""American taxpayers have been forced at gunpoint to fork over $130 billion in aid to Israel in the past sixty years.""
Sounds cheap compared to what we gave Iraq and Afghanistan.
And also not something Israelis did to us, but our own government.
The point is that the protesters are depriving people of the services they have paid good money for. Protest Israel all you want, but if you take control of others property or deprive people of services they have paid for, you have crossed a line.
"you have crossed a line."
Crossing a line is their way of bringing attention to their cause. It worked in your case, and has captured the attention of the country and beyond. The students may have to study a little harder, longer and spend more of their good money, but if the protests play any part in bringing about an end of the hostilities, and return of the hostages, then it's well worth the effort, with little cost - no campus deaths or maimings that I'm aware of.
Perhaps you have no desire to end the hostilities or see the return of the hostages, hence your enthusiasm in denigrating the protestor's demands. If you want the genocide to continue, the hostages to remain in captivity, and the universities to continue to fund the genocide, just say so. Your faux concern over free speech doesn't fool me.
The only way hostilities will end is with the extermination of Hamas. They will never give up their pursuit of Jewish genocide as long as they exist.
Hamas wants to “end the hostilities”? Well then, what’s all that “from the river to the sea” nonsense all about? Sounds like they’ll stop being hostile when all the jews are gone. How magnanimous.
Your faux concerns over death and hostages doesn’t fool anyone.
"Hamas wants to “end the hostilities”?"
They want a lot more than that. I recommend you broaden the range of sources you're willing to consult if you want to learn what Hamas wants. Reason is not your friend.
"Well then, what’s all that “from the river to the sea” nonsense all about? "
It's about a disputed stretch of territory between the Jordan (the river) and the Mediterranean (the sea).
"Sounds like they’ll stop being hostile when all the jews are gone."
There are hostile monarchies and secular dictatorships surrounding Palestine. They all enjoy support from the Empire and its lackeys. So when Israel's Jews up stakes and return to their ancestral European homes, the hostilities may well continue. Time will tell.
"Your faux concerns over death and hostages doesn’t fool anyone."
It's genuine concern. Why do you think otherwise, or that I'm trying to fool you?
"...Like universities enabling and encouraging apartheid, ethic cleansing, collective punishment, and even genocide?..."
You are a lying pile of lefty shit, aren't you?
“Student Intifada”
“Glory to the martyrs”
Protesting the Israel-Hamas “conflict” looks more like rallying for Hamas’ anti-Israel/KillAllJews agenda.
Things we used to know how to do, but have forgotten...
This is not hard.
Yes, you can stand there with your sign and sing, "We shall overcome..." No, you cannot occupy buildings, kidnap and restrain administrators, block other students' access to classes, attack people, vandalize or destroy property.
"No, you cannot occupy buildings, kidnap and restrain administrators, block other students’ access to classes, attack people, vandalize or destroy property."
You can do all that and more if you are Israel, and still enjoy the full support of Biden, Trump, Harris, the universities, and the rest of America's corrupted elites.
What does that have to do with the rule of law in the United States, the first amendment and the right to peaceably assemble?
Spewing bullshit is an end in itself for mtrueman.
Correct:
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
It’s less about the constitution and more about the left’s opposition to apartheid, collective punishment, forced population transfers, and genocide – all issues the constitution has shown a willingness to turn a blind eye to. Taking a stand against evil, or doing nothing, hiding behind constitutional amendments. Which is the greater shame?
And they are going to oppose those things by trying to help another group that is set on collective punishment and genocide of Jews in Israel. Even if everything you claim about Israel is true, you are still supporting people who are just as bad (when subjected to a collective judgement).
Now it's you who is conflating. In this case you are conflating a call for divestment with support for extermination of Jews.
" people who are just as bad "
I disagree with this. An occupied people have a right to resist, even violently. Nobody has a right to occupy another group, ethnically cleanse them, or institute policies of apartheid against them. At least this is how liberal students see it. If you have contrary ideas, lay them out for us.
You support Hamas and offer them cover. By extension, you favor the extermination of Jews, as Hamas favors the extermination turn of Jews. And not just in Israel.
Have you met Idaho-Bob? Another nihilistic toady to the establishment. You should get along well.
You’re the establishment toadie. Just a democrat thrall. Part of the anti semitic hive mind of leftist trash. And have you met the Iranian mullahs? You should get along well.
From the river to the sea, right Misek 2?
He’s entered a new dimension of idiocy.
You think anti-israel protests are anti-establishment? Wow.
"You think anti-israel protests are anti-establishment? "
Who has the ability to call in the police to shut down the protests? The establishment.
"Who has the ability to call in the police to shut down the protests? The establishment."
Who constantly posts bullshit sophistry, hoping someone will take it for "clever"? trueman!
What's your opinion of people who take hostages to use as human shields? And of people who regularly builds their military infrastructure underneath civilians' homes and hospitals knowing bombs are going to hit the civilians?
"What’s your opinion of people who take hostages to use as human shields? "
Hamas doesn't use hostages as human shields. They are used as bargaining chips. Hostage taking has been used in conflict for thousands of years, even in the US where the government threatened the lives of families of militant Indians back in the 19th century. Getting back to the current conflict. The hostage situation could have been resolved months ago. As early as Oct. 8th, Hamas offered to exchange their hostages for some 5000 (now 10000) held by the Israelis. Understandable since Netanyahu himself greenlighted the exchange of over 1000 Palestinians for one Israeli hostage not long ago. But don't you oppose such exchanges? Didn't you oppose the exchange in November last year, ironed out by Hamas and Netanyahu?
"And of people who regularly builds their military infrastructure underneath civilians’ homes and hospitals knowing bombs are going to hit the civilians?"
Maybe Hamas needs your help? Can you give Hamas an indication of where to build their military infrastructure in places you approve of? No? All you can offer is foolish whinging and parroting propaganda points.
What is the point of the call for divestment if not to weaken Israel so that the Palestinians can have their way in the territory?
It also serves to strengthen the movement for anti-colonialism. Not just in Israel, but world wide. The liberal students see themselves as part of the struggle. If you've followed the protests this should not be news to you.
What do you think should happen in Israel and Palestine? What is the outcome you think would be acceptable?
Acceptable to me, and I suspect many liberal students? One state solution, secular, a state that doesn't favor one ethnicity or religion over another. I've stated so before, and haven't changed.
An occupied people have a right to resist, even violently. Nobody has a right to occupy another group
January 6 and open borders have entered the chat.
You're an entitled establishment toady. A good old fashioned occupation might do you good.
You're a steaming pile of antisemitic lefty shit; pretty doubtful you've ever held a job.
Gaza was not occupied, Israel left there in 2005.
Palistinians had a short civil war, and put Hamas into power, answering the Israeli olive branch with more violence.
Israel then cutoff Gaza to protect itself, waiting out Hamas to return to the negotiation table.
Hamas since the Gaza civil war has never held another formal election, and did not bother building bomb shelters for its own people, while plotting more attacks.
It brushed off questions of why it didn't build bomb shelters for its people as "Well that's the U.N.'s responsibility, not ours."
They're a bad actor, who doesn't negotiate the peace plan Israel agreed to in the 90s.
So what is the proper response? What is the answer to an entity, that doesn't care about its own people, will strike out violently whenever it feels, and doesn't return to the peace framework their own forebears established?
If the "students" are so dedicated to opposition to all of the buzz words you mentioned, why not travel and fight alongside the Gazans?
"why not travel and fight alongside the Gazans?"
Who would be left to oppose our universities funding of genocide? You? Don't make me laugh. You're nothing but a nihilistic toady to the establishment.
We get it pussy. You don’t have the courage of your convictions. Just like every democrat.
Enough about liberal students and their protests. Let's discuss me!
You’re certainly an ongoing problem here.
You're an entitled coward hiding behind a ridiculous pseudonym. I'm proud to be considered an ongoing problem by the likes of you. How do you feel about being such a tedious schmuck?
“How do you feel about being such a tedious schmuck?”
He wouldn’t know, you would; how do you feel about it?
Funny, your kind always cower before me. As you’re the ones always hiding. Just like that pussy Sarc after he foolishly threatened me.
You’re are certainly just as gutless. Now fuck the fuck off.
And why don’t we make that compulsory? Just round them up and stuff them into shipping containers . We can export them directly to Gaza via that pier Biden had built. I’m even willing to poke a few airholes in the containers for them.
Their arrival should be live-streamed. I’m anxious to see how the ‘queers for Palestine’ people will be received by the peaceful Muslims there.
"left’s opposition to apartheid"
Hey, how many Jews ARE in the Arab countries? They certainly were there in the past.
"Hey, how many Jews ARE in the Arab countries? "
Arab countries are not Leftist. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the Gulf states are not leftist. Look it up. They are monarchies and dictatorships all beloved of the US establishment. The only nation in the region that is remotely Leftist is Israel, with its collective farms, kibbutzim etc. And yes, Israel has plenty of Jews, and is nevertheless an apartheid state - Jew only land, Jew only roads, Jew only housing - the whole megilllah.
But they are supported by US steaming piles of lefty shit like you and JFucked!
Will there be any college protestors left this year? Didn't they all starve to death?
If only.
Boy you have a one-track mind. An indicator of limited intelligence.
Joe McCarthy made a case for the influence of neo-Marxist professors in American universities and he was vilified for it and destroyed by those same people.
Today, it is obvious he was correct as the university campus has become a hot bed of post modernist neo- Marxism and international socialism. Harvard, Colombia and Yale are worthless shit holes of Marxist ideology and lunatic woke rubbish. A certain number of these universities should lose all taxpayer/federal funding.
As for freedom of speech, anyone tries to silence my free speech will get a free dose of my own version of violence.
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech and the use of censorship to silence opposing voices or those who dare speak out run contrary to not only the First Amendment but to the very idea of America as a free sovereign nation.
Get U.S. out of the U.N. / get the U.N. out of the U.S.
Get U.S. out of NATO
Get U.S. out of WHO.
Also, get the Marxists out of the US.
As students return to campus, the underlying issues that ignited these demonstrations—misunderstandings and misapplications of free speech—remain unaddressed.
You think a misunderstanding of free speech is the cause? No offense, I don't agree. I think they understand it just fine, they just don't believe in it.
Also, it seems to me that most of them just want some kind of final solution to Judaism. The organizers and those behind the scene's certainly do, but the foot soldiers probably think they're fighting against colonialism or white privilege or something. Those wacky kids will believe any grievance mongering even if they aren't exactly sure what those grievances are or what the 'solution' will be.
If you look at Oct. 7th and think to yourself 'those bastards deserved it' then you are probably beyond hope.
the foot soldiers probably think they’re fighting against colonialism or white privilege or something. Those wacky kids will believe any grievance mongering even if they aren’t exactly sure what those grievances are or what the ‘solution’ will be.
This didn't start on Oct 7 and in all likelihood students are too young to understand anything re history here. But so are American adults. The only difference between adults and students is that students are willing to ask questions and adults are not interested in any discussion of the topic so STFU already.
As early as 1919, two years after the Balfour Declaration, Americans sent a Commission (King-Crane) to the Ottoman areas to assess how the US should respond to the post-WW1 breakup and disposition of those areas. Back in those days, we thought the way to do that was to ask questions of all the locals and such. Far better than the British response then with their long experience of colonialism. BIG mistake.
Because when you ask questions without an agenda and without secret agreements, uncomfortable truths pop up. So uncomfortable that the Commission Report was not published for three year - and then only in a media trade journal. So uncomfortable that the comments expressed then would be blasted today and would not be possible to utter. The US instead now bases everything re that area on simply accepting pablum and lies and myths. And most commenters here support that whole hog.
Since most of you will not read any of the link - I will extract some of the text of that report. Which let me repeat - was deliberately suppressed by the State Dept as 'not in the public interest'.
The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase
To subject a people [the 90% then majority of Palestine] so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted [self-determination], and of the people's rights, though it kept within the forms of law
The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British officer, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms.
For the initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a "right" to Palestine, based on an occupation of 2,000 years ago, can hardly be seriously considered.
It must be believed that the precise meaning, in this respect [what will happen to the religious sites], of the complete Jewish occupation of Palestine has not been fully sensed by those who urge the extreme Zionist program. For it would intensify, with a certainty like fate, the anti-Jewish feeling both in Palestine and in all other portions of the world which look to Palestine as "the Holy Land."
In view of all these considerations, and with a deep sense of sympathy for the Jewish cause, the Commissioners feel bound to recommend that only a greatly reduced Zionist program be attempted by the Peace Conference, and even that, only very gradually initiated. This would have to mean that Jewish immigration should be definitely limited, and that the project for making Palestine distinctly a Jewish commonwealth should be given up.
[deleted]
""students are willing to ask questions ""
Demands are not questions. They don't even seem to understand why using human shields are a bad thing.
Their first demand on that banner in the photo is - End the Silence.
Do you think that using human shields is a bad thing? Or does it only matter which side does that?
Yes.
How is Israel using human shields? Did they kidnap them?
Haaretz - IDF Uses Palestinian Civilians to Inspect Booby Traps
Hey, lookit that. JFree using the socialist-liberal 'paper of record' in Israel as their source. Neat. They also hate Netanyahu, big shock.
Certainly Netanyahu doesn't want that story out - in English. Nor do those whose audience - in English - is the useful idiots in the US/West.
Israelis are not at all squeamish about Israel using human shields and their media is far more honest than the US media about what Israel does. But of course that story is gonna be in Hebrew not English which I'm sure you're comfortable with and can search online. Good luck. Try - שִׁרְיוֹן
גּוֹי אֶחָד שׁוֹטֵף
אִישׁ שׁוֹטֵף
Oh, and the slimy pile of antisemitism assumes that Netanyahu controls the press!
Thank you, Herr Gobbles!
The Haaretz article is behind a paywall, but Times of Israel has an article on the same topic.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-idf-using-gazans-to-check-areas-that-may-be-booby-trapped-before-troops-enter/
So, let's talk about it.
Israeli newspapers report that IDF units alleged to engage in a practice of capturing uninvolved civilians and using them to check for booby traps, on a "better they die than we die" calculation. The alleged behavior described above is described as a crime.
In the same article, the IDF is quoting as noting that such behaviors are against IDF "instructions and orders," and says that it is investigating to see if such a crime is happening, and if so to hold accountable the personnel doing such things.
So, the behavior described is universally agreed by all Israeli sources to be a crime, and the only question is if it is actually happening, and how long it will take to punish whomever is responsible.
On the other side, you've got Hamas, which is as bad as all the worst actors of history, and which is very proud of its viciousness and cruelty.
And you side with Hamas.
You make a valid point that newspaper investigations may simply reveal aberrations and rogue actions. That a proper investigation by the authorities will determine whether that is so and will punish rogue actions. Obviously the IDF (unlike Hamas) has a mechanism to receive complaints and process them. But with one big exception, the complaints never go anywhere and the process involved is more like ‘getting everyone’s story straight’ than it is about even including the alleged victims allegations of what happened. Akin to police abuse complaints from 60 years ago in the US. Some kid used as a human shield is not going to lodge a complaint or they get snuffed. It used to be that human rights organizations had the clout and the distance to be able to lodge those sorts of complaints – but they stopped lodging individual complaints with the IDF (a decade ago in the case of Btselem, longer in the case of HRW/Amnesty/etc) because they go nowhere and get covered up and, worse, the mere act of filing the complaints gives the veneer that the IDF has a legitimate investigation process. There are still thousands of complaints lodged per year but they usually involved property theft not the sort of accusations where the IDF would retaliate.
The exception is those cases that quickly make it to international media coverage where there a)is strong pressure to force an investigation and b)that AIPAC/etc can’t make sure Western pols shut up. eg the Sabra-Shatila massacre in 1982 or the World Kitchen attack on foreigners a few months ago. It is why the human rights organizations are filing complaints now with ICC and ICJ – and filing videos/etc with social media – and why Israel is worried that they will be accused of things they haven’t even ‘investigated’ to get their stories straight.
There is not one allegation of Israel soldiers using human shields. There are many. I linked to one. There prob could be examples of Hamas using human shields (more recent than the 2nd intifada where it was common in street fights) – but Israeli soldiers seem to be busy telling other stories on social media and of course Hamas has no Bureau of Filing Complaints about Behavior.
So it's your view that, no matter what, the IDF should be assumed to be guilty. If an investigation doesn't turn up bad behavior, that's proof of cover up. It must have happened, because. Right? It's not like Jews could be not guilty of something. And even if they are, so what? For Jews, innocence is no defense!
"It must have happened, because. Right? It’s not like Jews could be not guilty of something. "
There are videos - more than one - of presumably Jewish soldiers forcing presumably non Jewish civilians at gun point to shield the soldiers while they are on maneuvers. There are also videos of presumably Jewish soldiers torturing and raping non Jewish detainees. And many more videos of tents and houses of non Jewish civilians being leveled and those inside killed.
I've said it before, if you want a fuller picture of Israeli crimes, you need to broaden your sources. Reason seems determined to cast the conflict as one between opponents and supporters of free speech. Attention to on going war crimes would only muddy the waters.
it’s your view that, no matter what, the IDF should be assumed to be guilty.
No. They should be assumed to be lying (esp in their PR function) and more interested in protecting themselves from scrutiny than in exposing wrongdoing. That’s not unique to the IDF. Every police force and military has the same issue. The question is to what degree - and how they take responsibility for their actions.
According to this story from NPR (which is what I indirectly referenced in the above comment) – Among the 1,260 complaints regarding Israeli soldiers harming Palestinians and their property between 2017 and 2021, only 11 resulted in indictments — fewer than 1% of all complaints.
And the human rights group B’Tselem says – After years of collecting evidence to assist the IDF in its investigations, though, Michaeli says B’Tselem rarely saw any of its cases move past the initial investigative stage. “We did that for many years and ultimately reached the conclusion that it was pointless,” says Michaeli, “that regardless of what we did, there was always the same result: no accountability.” Michaeli says B’Tselem stopped referring cases to Israel’s military altogether in 2016.
Don't you love how shits like jfree and trueman try to reverse reality?
Does Israel hide its military infrastructure under homes and hospitals? Are Israelis holding kidnapped people in their own homes?
Israel has its Defense Ministry and Mossad HQ right in a densely populated part of central Tel Aviv called HaKirya.
Which BTW - is not 'human shield'.
It’s not. Lie Hamas putting tun els under hospitals and schools.
You really are vile. That you think this is all cute shows what a worthless sociopath you really are.
Israel would not have any gain from using human shields even if it wished to, as Hamas and its other enemies are totally happy to target Jewish non-combatant civilians for murder and the world community (meaning the UN, the European Union, and people like you) is totally happy to let them.
Understand. Siting fixed military assets near civilians is NOT 'human shield'. It may put a burden on legitimate militaries to avoid collateral damage but it is not 'human shield' (which is a war crime). Human shield was introduced to Palestine by the British during the 1930's Arab revolt
As for gaining a benefit - Israel is not using Israelis as human shields. They are using Palestinians - who they view as the enemy - as human shields. Hamas is certainly using Israeli hostages as human shields - within the tunnels. But Israels claim in incurring so many civilian casualties is that Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields. While I'm sure Hamas doesn't give a damn about Palestinian civilians, using them as 'human shields' would massively undermine Hamas with Palestinians. So in fact there is a big potential negative to Hamas using Palestinians as human shields.
Israel's propaganda about civilian casualties is not targeted to Hamas or Palestinians - but to the West. Which means they are using 'human shield' to describe something very very different (namely the deliberate use of 'dumb bombs' and bunker busters in civilian areas).
Hamas routinely stores weapons in civilian infrastructure, digs tunnels in private homes and hospitals, and otherwise uses civilian infrastructure to host and/or cloak military assets and activities. They do this with the specific intent of maximizing Arab civilian deaths so that the world media and opinion will damn Israel. Which they do, like clockwork, because of course they do.
Over many decades (going back long before Hamas), the Arab population of the area has been deeply propagandized to believe that the best thing they can do in this world is die in order to kill Jews. Enough of them believe it, and enough of the others (correctly) believe that Hamas and its fellow travelers will be very happy to kill dissenters, to keep Hamas et al. in power.
They do this with the specific intent of maximizing Arab civilian deaths so that the world media and opinion will damn Israel.
They are in Gaza – the most densely populated place on Earth. There is no avoiding citing military assets near civilians – intentional or not. But let me repeat – THAT IS NOT HUMAN SHIELD. It is not Hamas who is intending to maximize Arab deaths. Their goal is to restrict/restrain Israeli scope of action. Israel’s military doctrine – the Dahiya doctrine – is what is intended to maximize civilian deaths (or more accurately probably – to destroy civilian infrastructure even with no military target).
Your statement is basically an updated version of Golda Meir’s victimhood excuse – When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.
The person who pulls the trigger is the innocent victim. The guilty perp is the family of what everyone else would call the victim. It’s nuts.
As for your opinions about Arab motives. I’ve lived in Arab countries. Lived in Iran when it was an ally of Israel and Jews lived there too. Jews lived in Arab countries for millennia (including Jerusalem and environs). Hamas isn’t a creation of Israel but Israel spent the last 40 years keeping it propped up. Whatever you’re selling is mostly bullshit.
It's not just near, Hamas intermixed their facilities within hospitals:
https://cdn.jns.org/uploads/2023/10/Gaza-hospital-2000x1125.jpg
This is clearly deliberate, and it's a well documented bahavior by them that goes back decades, so says NATO.
https://stratcomcoe.org/pdfjs/?file=/publications/download/hamas_human_shields.pdf
""Or does it only matter which side does that?"'
Seems a few here don't care that one side is doing it. Blame the other side for it.
Well I just linked above to independent evidence that the IDF is using human shields as of one month ago. Show me your independent evidence (meaning not simply an assertion by the IDF) that Hamas is doing that.
You linked a source which no one has ever heard from and apparently, no one else has noticed what they claimed.
Value as evidence = zero.
FOAD, asshole.
Hahaha. You don't even know what Ha'aretz is. Take a guess as to what it means in Hebrew.
Gee, at least the liars didn't name themselves Pravda.
FOAD asshole.
BTW, antisemite shit bag, no I didn't bother to learn Hebrew and to slimy piles of lefty shit like you, I'm sure that is a moral issue.
She-she, asshole.
This didn’t start on Oct 7 and in all likelihood students are too young to understand anything re history here.
Which actually makes it worse.
In fact, the 'history of the situation' is Hamas entire justification for their outright barbarity as it seems you note. Viewed in a bubble, it makes them look even more psychopathic than they are.
Right?
You've made the case that Jews deserve whatever they get from the descendants of descendants of a bad thing that happened a century before.
I don't know if you do this out of a reflexive contrarianism or if you are an outright antisemite, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter since it makes you a terrible person devoid of even a hint of humanity or morality.
It amounts to justifying throwing a Molotov cocktail into a crowd because one or more of them are known Nazi's. Sure, you might hit a Nazi but you will definitely burn a lot of innocents too. In essence, it's worth breaking a few egg's to make an omelet. You are disgustingly utilitarian to your core.
You’ve made the case that Jews deserve whatever they get from the descendants of descendants of a bad thing that happened a century before.
I haven’t made any such case. Nor have I conflated ‘Jews’ with ‘Israeli Jews’. That latter is what YOUR ilk does in trying to paint anti-Zionism or criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism.
Nor has there been any such ‘gap’ of 100 years. The then-Zionist now-Israeli goal of ethnic cleansing is 100% intact – as readily and publicly admitted to now as then. Now with theft and violence for the last 80 years. For the last 55 years – virtually every day – on the land that was deemed to be the ‘Palestinian state’ by the UN in 1949. Within Gaza, there has not been one day in the last 20 years with more than 12 hours of electricity. Not one day with clean drinking water in a dozen years. That is an important understanding because ethnic cleansing intent + unwillingness to be moved + rendering the land uninhabitable = genocide. THAT is what long precedes Oct 7.
Let’s ignore the first 100 years and cover one event in 2018 – a multimonth peaceful (for Palestinians that is a big surprise) unarmed protest along the Gaza fence. The response by Israeli snipers was to kill 220, kneecap 6600, and otherwise injure 2000. The response here at Reason was complete silence except a mention in Reason Roundup on one day (the day the US opened its embassy in Jerusalem).
That is the conspiracy of silence. The first demand on that banner in the photo. That makes Americans believe that the only thing that happens is whatever Israeli PR chooses to market to the US. You believe what you have been told to believe. I don’t give a shit what your ilk accuse me of. Most of them (not you I don’t think) are the sort of alt-right supremacists who marched at Charlottesville. Them calling me anti-semitic is rich.
Tell us about the 1,500 year history of Islam vowing to eradicate the Jewish people. You seem to be 100% silent about that, you slimy pile of antisemitic shit.
My guess is you know more about eating boogers than you do about Muslim-Jewish relations.
My certainty is that you are an antisemitic pile of lying lefty shit. Now, please reply to the question posted above, shitstain, about those 1.500 years.
Why, in dealing with one more Nazi and lefty lying pile of shit, am I not surprised that you're attempting misdirection, shitbag?
FOAD, shitbag.
If you'd stop your soviet style whataboutism for a while, maybe you'd see why it looks like you're providing cover to Hamas. That was the goal of the soviets, too, and this is a very literal case of this particular fallacy.
If your goal is to simply shed light on the historical situation, that would be one thing, but it seems to me that you are attempting to excuse away what Hamas does as justified due to Israeli aggression.
I don't read it that way because I'm some Israeli apologist either. I read it that way because raping and beheading civilians is wrong and it shouldn't take an act of Congress to get you to acknowledge that simple point. I have never once seen you condemn Hamas over their actions, but I have seen you make excuses. One wonders why that might be.
Yeah, Israel does some gross shit. Feel free to call them out on that, but you can do it in a way that doesn't make excuses for Jihadi lunatics. Notably, you never manage to accomplish that rather simple task.
And lets be serious, this is hardly the first time you've bashed on Israel for tangential reasons. In fact, it's reflexive for you. Point out that Hamas are a bunch of animals, and you 'whatabout' every time.
And if we're honest, Israel must be the worst nation on Earth when it comes to 'genocide'. Genocide is actually quite easy, and you're telling me Israel is so bad at it that the population of Gaza has only ever gone up? No offense, but the Chinese are orders of magnitude better at ethnic cleansing right now today when it comes to their own ethnic minorities. Those numbers, if they can even be believed, are certainly trending towards extinction. The same literally can not be said of Gaza. They can be mistreated without labeling it 'genocide' and making such claims illuminates your appeal to emotion bullshit.
I'd be more forgiving of what you may or may not really believe if the trend wasn't so obviously clear. You have an axe to grind against Israel, and no amount of horror inflicted on them will be enough for you to say 'maybe Hamas has it coming'.
I read it that way because raping and beheading civilians is wrong and it shouldn’t take an act of Congress to get you to acknowledge that simple point. I have never once seen you condemn Hamas over their actions, but I have seen you make excuses. One wonders why that might be.
I can tell you exactly why that is. On Oct 7 and 8, I had the same emotions as every 'bystander' I know - shock at what happened, empathy with victims/families, rage/revulsion at Hamas. On Oct 9, that changed. Yoav Gallant made his rile up the troops speech re cutting off food/water/power to everyone in Gaza and they are human animals. Worse was Netanyahu's speech a couple weeks invoking Amalek. That is not a speech that involves me as a bystander but as the primary supplier of weapons, Israel's diplomat/lawyer, etc - as an accomplice to whatever war plan might happen in future. Which also means from that point on that any attempts by powers-that-be to rile up emotions - even to force people to check boxes re preceding every utterance with a nod to the horrors of Oct 7 - is manipulative and transactional. To keep us infantilized and preferably hysterical with emotions while the adults make all the decisions in our name and on our dollar.
There are certainly still honest emotional conversations about Oct 7 now but only in private conversations. Public conversations are all manipulative and transactional - esp now a year on. I can understand why that transition from early emotional reaction may have taken some people longer. I can understand why some people want to remain in an emotional 'bystander' mode. Not me.
but I have seen you make excuses
No you haven't. I have tried to explain what I understand to be the facts and context of what is happening. I am not Hamas' lawyer and not Hamas - or even a Palestinian of a similar age who may have once voted for Hamas a long time ago. I am far less responsible for Hamas actions than Netanyahu is so I am not going to accept some notion of implicit blame from some anonymous dog on the Internet.
Genocide is actually quite easy, and you’re telling me Israel is so bad at it that the population of Gaza has only ever gone up?
Israel has a strong desire to be the only people in the world who DEFINE genocide so that the Holocaust is the go-to example and so that they can own 'Never again'. And guilt over the Holocaust is a major reason for Western aid/support when the rest of the world (that never had any guilt about the Holocaust) views Israel as increasingly a pariah settler-colonial state.
So no - it's not that easy given those constraints. And I repeat ethnic cleansing intent + unwillingness/resistance to being moved + rendering the land uninhabitable = genocide. The third 'additive' is what Israel has long resisted because it requires permawar rather than short massive wars.
I phrased that first sentence weirdly. What I meant was that 'collective victimhood' is a foundational part of Israeli identity. Certainly a foundational part of Zionism and probably a foundational part of Judaism. Since real-life 20th century genocide is a component of that, any narrative ABOUT genocide is going to have to fit into the 'collective victimhood' part of identity. Can't let someone else define genocide - and victim - and perpetrator - while still ensuring that the 'collective victimhood' elements of identity doesn't change.
Idk if that's an even weirder way of phrasing what I mean. But it means that Israel is extremely comfortable with expressing ethnic cleansing intent but can't see how that might lead to genocide.
Anti-Zionism is the idea that "Jews should not have a state or self rule anywhere at all or in any borders." Of course that is an antisemitic belief. It's obviously antisemitic, in the same way that a tree is obviously a tree..
“Jews should not have a state or self rule anywhere at all or in any borders.”
Certainly not at the expense of non Jews.
A quick check on Wikipedia confirms my memory of the great "peaceful protests" of 2018. "Nevertheless, smaller groups attempted to breach the fence, rolling tires and throwing stones and molotov cocktails." Also, "Israeli officials said the demonstrations were used by Hamas as cover for launching attacks against Israel."
So the "peaceful protests" were definitely used for at least small-scale terrorism, and according to Israel were used as cover for larger terrorism.
Which makes the use of force, including deadly force, to put down the terrorist attacks unsurprising. And unoffensive, to anyone that has not decided a priori that anything the Jews--oh, sorry, the Israelis--do is bad.
"Which makes the use of force, including deadly force, to put down the terrorist attacks unsurprising. "
You're not surprised that Israel's military sniped at unarmed civilians? Were you surprised by the attack on Oct. 7th last year? I suspect the two were linked, don't you?
"You think a misunderstanding of free speech is the cause? No offense, I don’t agree. I think they understand it just fine, they just don’t believe in it. "
I agree with you. Reason has consistently attempted to cast the protests as for or against free speech, seemingly in an effort to gloss over and ignore the enormity of Israel's crimes.
"Also, it seems to me that most of them just want some kind of final solution to Judaism. "
I don't see how you arrive at that. Calling for divestment will somehow lead to the extermination of Jews?
What do you think will be accomplished through divestment?
Perhaps the universities will invest in worthier causes. Finding a cause worthier than perpetuating genocide can't be that hard. Any ideas?
Yes. FOAD Nazi shit.
“Divestment” is just code for these guys. Everybody knows it; why do they bother?
This is because the regime has taught them that speech can be suppressed and canceled if you don't like it.
The level of both stupidity and ignorance most college students and most of their professors concerning basic civics and the motivation for the Bill of Rights is alternately shocking and deeply disturbing. The lack of knowledge of civics and history as well as just plain clear thinking has seemed to rise rapidly, perhaps even exponentially, over the last several decades. It is the major reason I left academia after a brief return from commercial life two decades ago now. It has only gotten worse, much worse indeed. I was planning to leave a large gift in honor of one of my mentors who would be aghast at the current situation. That's out of the question now. It now so deeply rooted that I doubt it can be rectified in my remaining lifetime. The entire educational system may have to be "burned down" - figuratively of course. My alma maters are now pale shadows of the open & liberally minded institutions I attended. It's enough to make a committed educator weep.
Yeah, well they all subscribe to Popper's "paradox of tolerance", so if they just conveniently label everything they oppose as "fascist" or hateful in their worldview, they can then self-righteously say free speech for me, but not for thee.
America simply needs to wash its hands of Israel and force AIPAC to register as foreign agents unless they want to get kicked out of the country permanently. Personally, I'm all for kicking their arses out of the country and warning Israel if they do anything in retaliation, they will pay dearly for it.
It's time for America to stop being Israel's bitch. If the jews in this country don't like it, they can move to Israel.
I’m not comfortable siding with communists, national socialists, Islamists, and globalists on this issue. And before pivoting to some canard like “I’m siding with America”, I’d first have to see something just as politically bullish put on the table Dealing with the communists, national socialists, Islamists and globalists.
I think the reaction post-oct.7th has mostly cast doubt on the notion that the Jews run the media as advertised. It looks a lot more to me like commies do.
Also, since when have we needed Israel to coax us into Empire and foreign entanglements? We’re using each other like any countries do.
Well Geez... What else did you expect the 'armed-theft' for a living crowd was going to do to take up all their time?
Something about idle-hands and the devil.
Maybe education wouldn't be such a joke if it had never been Socialized.
The useful idiots on the left have a saying: "Free speech for me, but not for thee."
This is a good example.
Interesting stats. Once again, do we have a breakdown on the political leanings of all the students surveyed for this? Telling me 70% of liberals were not in favor of free speech and 63% of all students felt similarly tells a very different story if liberals are a small percentage of those surveyed vs a majority. Are we trying to identify the real problem or not?
Palestine don’t mean a thing. It’s just another way to be left wing.
"They also need to teach students the limits of free speech: Violence, disrupting campus activities, shouting down speakers one disagrees with, and intimidating or harassing others are not free speech."
Sorry but this entire article is mis-titled. Universities should stand firm on free speech on campuses and remain neutral on all issues, but they won't. The assumption that students can be educated about free speech - or that they would allow themselves to be enlightened - is probably false. I have never understood why university administrators felt they needed to - or ought to - cater to the whims of their students unless they wanted to and were looking for excuses to do so out of sympathy for the sociopolitical agenda. I don't see how such a bias helps the educational mission at all unless that mission is to promote controversy and foster chaos in society generally.
Back in the bad-old ’60s, we called this sort of thing “Teach-ins” We seldom assumed that everyone interested in protesting understood as much as necessary to participate intelligently. I’m not overly nostalgic about the ’60s, but that was something we did right at the right time. I have no way of knowing whether or not those teach-ins made a significant difference in anything (Chicago, Kent State, and Jackson State happened anyway), but at least we tried.
On utoob there is a video of a white woman approaching two black women and calling them the n-word, finishing with "I can say that because, free speech." That is the level of casuistry evident in this article. No matter how destructive of moral and social order, the mantra "free speech" enables every possible combination of bad behavior.
The author of this article would have condemned Rosa Parks for refusing to give up her seat on the bus, as she thereby "interfered with normal operations." He would side with the police against the marchers to Selma when they blocked the bridge. He would condemn the lunch counter sit-ins. There is no form of oppression that he will not support in the name of "free speech." "Whites Only" restaurants, hotels, gas stations, - yeah, sure. "Free speech."
Somebody should lend him a copy of Becker's "The Paradox of Tolerance" note in The Open Society and its Enemies. It's just a fact that unlimited tolerance for the intolerant will end with the triumph of intolerance.
The claim that putting limits on speech will destroy the fabric of a free society is just false. It's false. 50 years ago, no one would have dared walk up to black people on the sidewalk in a major city and call them racist names. It just wasn't done. Being a racist was unacceptable public behavior in most of this country. Sure, racism was there. But, through the very kinds of protest this author condemns, we showed the bad effects it had on the social order, on our rights as human beings: we attached a stigma to it, sufficient that most people kept schtum in public. Thanks to followers of Reason and their like-minded ilk, not only is it done today - it is defended - in this magazine - as a "right."
My five-year-old daughter came home from kindergarten one day and asked if there was any way that we could make her skin white, so she would look like the other kids in her class. I cannot adequately express my contempt for the people who promote that kind of a society in the name of "free speech."
"On utoob there is a video of a white woman approaching two black women and calling them the n-word, finishing with “I can say that because, free speech.” That is the level of casuistry evident in this article..."
Yes, and A-1 prevents the gov't from interfering. Did you have a point?
Does the author of this piece think he has reached his readers after reading their comments?