Drive-Thrus Are Booming. Why Are Cities Banning Them?
Despite increasing demand, cities across the U.S. are pushing bans on new drive-thru restaurants in the name of reducing traffic and promoting walkability.

Drive-thru windows have made a massive comeback, and—much like Zoom, remote work, and grocery delivery services—they show no signs of retreating in popularity in the post-pandemic world. The move toward drive-thrus has proven to be a sustained shift in consumer behavior, so naturally, the government has stepped in to do what it does best: regulate, restrict, and ban.
Last year, The New York Times reported on the post-pandemic durability of drive-thrus, noting that their traffic increased by 30 percent from 2019 to 2022, showing that Americans preferred staying in their cars even after the public health emergency began to wane. It's unremarkable that drive-thrus accounted for 70 percent of fast-service restaurant sales during the time of social distancing rules, but even with the public health emergency in the rearview mirror, two-thirds of fast-food transactions still happen in the drive-thru lane.
Researchers at Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management used cellphone data to track the average time spent at McDonald's, Dunkin' Donuts, and Starbucks—which make up roughly 10 percent of all fast-food stores in the U.S—and have confirmed that short drive-thru visits increased during COVID and stayed up; longer sit-down visits to the same restaurants went down and stayed down.
Yet even while Gen Zers are frequenting drive-thrus and filming their visits for a TikTok trend, city governments are veering hard in the other direction. Nearly every month, news comes of another city moving to ban new drive-thrus. Minneapolis kicked off the trend in 2019 by banning new drive-thru windows citywide. In 2023, Atlanta followed suit with its own ban on new drive-thrus within a half-mile of the Beltline. Cities such as St. Paul, Minnesota, and Annapolis, Maryland, have recently jumped on the bandwagon with proposed bans.
Whereas prior attempts to curb fast-food culture centered on fighting obesity, today's rationale is different: traffic congestion and efforts to promote walkability. Planners bemoan the traffic snarls caused by long lines of cars waiting for their Starbucks or Chick-fil-A fix and argue that the automobile-centric design of drive-thrus undermines efforts to promote alternative forms of mobility like biking, walking, and public transit.
For modern urban planners, walkability is the goal. "The more drive-thrus you build, the more car-centric you become—as opposed to something that has more mobility options," said Keba Samuel, chair of the Charlotte Planning Commission in North Carolina. "It doesn't make sense to have this multi-billion investment in light rail and still encourage an auto-centric environment. It's contradictory."
In other words, light rail is in, drive-thrus are out. But the reality is more complex. While critics may argue that drive-thrus cater to greedy corporate interests, in truth they are what customers are demanding. For many restaurants, the drive-thru model is the only thing that has kept them alive both during and after the pandemic.
The Kellogg study found that fast service restaurants with drive-thru windows saw a modest 4 percent decline in sales from 2019 to 2022. Meanwhile, those without drive-thrus experienced a devastating 50 percent drop. That is comparable to 25 percent of Starbucks customers—and 50 percent of the chain's total revenue—transitioning to drive-thru-only outlets.
Drive-thru bans also overlook the market responses already addressing traffic congestion issues. Taco Bell opened its first "Defy" outlet in 2022, which features a two-story layout with four drive-thru lanes and food delivered via tubes. (As The Verge described it: "Think a drive-thru bank but you get a Chalupa and Baja Blast instead of cash.") Chick-fil-A is rolling out its own elevated drive-thru, designed to handle double or triple the volume of a traditional drive-thru, and utilizing conveyor belts that can deliver food orders as fast as every six seconds.
If policy makers really were concerned about traffic, they'd be embracing these high-efficiency designs. Instead of a drive-thru ban, local governments could institute two-story zoning allowances by right for any drive-thru businesses seeking to open in the area.
A final consideration lost in the drive-thru debate is the vital role many fast-food outlets play in their communities. In some lower- and middle-class areas, restaurants like McDonald's have become a crucial "third place"—venues where locals gather for everything from Bible studies to bingo.
Drive-thrus might not fit the vision of many urban planners, but the reality is they are becoming more important, not less.
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One size fits all, right? Want mass transit, can't have single-vehicle mobility.
Mass transit is mass-produced Fords, Chebbies and inbred foreign vehicles. The rest of the world understands that stuffing winos and pickpockets into gubmint busses is "collective transportation." Cross a border and see for self...
Stop huffing glue, weirdo.
It's too late. The damage for Hank is already permanent.
"It doesn't make sense to have this multi-billion investment in light rail and still encourage an auto-centric environment. It's contradictory."
I agree. Let's stop wasting our tax dollars on light rail no one wants.
Perfect comment.
Will there be special carve-out permits for fast-food drive-through joints selling only earthworm and insect-based meals? They are good for the planet, ya know!!!
Those will have a bike lane, or be within walking distance of the train station.
For modern urban planners, walkability is the goal. "The more drive-thrus you build, the more car-centric you become"
Sheesh, just *walk* in the "drive-thru" lane.
Next, you're gonna want to park in a drive-way and drive on a parkway.
Or, and hear me out here, just walk inside and order there.
This boils down to the government telling you that your preferences don't fit their goals so you'll be forced to do it their way.
Which if we're honest isn't going to fly with their own people. Kids may talk a big game when it comes to 'fighting climate change' but as soon as that runs up against their never-leave-home lifestyle that goes straight in the dumpster.
"It doesn't make sense to have this multi-billion investment in light rail and still encourage an auto-centric environment. It's contradictory."
Lemme fuckin' stop you right there, lady. It didn't make sense to have a multi-billion dollar investment in light rail, full stop. Stop trying to play SimCity and The Sims with real people.
But think like a progressive utopia-planner. They might disagree on some goals and strategies, but always know that letting people do what they want is very, very, very bad.
But think like a progressive utopia-planner.
I'd rather not induce the levels of organic brain damage required to achieve that, thanks.
Those are the people who played sim city with unlimited money.
Once, when I was riding my bicycle home from work (20 miles) I stopped mid ride (90 deg+F) at a drive up Hardees. They would not serve me on my bicycle. I was a mess and did not want to go in so I left wit nothing. Never stopped there again.
Can they make drive-thrus that trains can go through?
Can't wait to hear the argument about which place the train should go through.
Yes and they are called train stations
The main thing I dislike about drive-thrus is that they result in people eating while driving, adding to the driver distraction from phones and entertainment systems. Turn off the phone, put down the burrito, and fucking pay attention.
Are you interested in acquiring a hood-mounted Gatling gun?
They do come in handy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXtAcwuQlg
Dude, those were in comix ads for bike handlebars back when Sgt Rock still had enough teeth to pull a grenade pin. "Seduction of The Innocent" reprinted the ad with vituperative scolding. Next to it on the HS library shelf was a similar Comstockist tome, "The Velvet Underground"! That book made Andy Warhol records fly off the shelf a decade later.
No
The main thing I dislike about drive-thrus is people who want me to payoff their student loans but still manage to pay ridiculous amounts of money on crappy hamburgers and drive 40 thousand dollar cars.
If you are in favor of the 15 minute city, please do us all a favor and blow up the bridges and roads going into your hellhole.
Snake Bliskin, is that you?
I like you.
One feature that all 15 minute cities will have in common is a slum. It is necessary in order to reach equilibrium between labor and prices.
That won't be necessary. They don't want ANY means of entering or exiting the city.
Haven't you heard? A growing number of Level 2 Snowflakes can't cope with anything that requires leaving the safe space home sanctuary. Drive-throughs? Are you kidding?
Let's talk about home delivery, and whether or not the customer has to answer the door until the delivery person leaves.
And how much to tip the delivery guy, and how much to tip the restaurant, in advance, and how much of the tip actually goes to the driver, even though your food is cold and you could have picked it up faster by going to the drive-through yourself.
If you count the online personal therapy coaching session to build up the courage to go out, it might not be faster.
The unstated problem is that politicians and regulators don't understand how long it takes to do things. You can't just pass a law and buildings magically transform overnight.
Ha. Hotels magically turned into migrant shelters across the country. Refuted.
I wonder where the money is going to come from to remodel them - now that they are trashed.
"Corporations are all rich anyway, they can pay for their own remodeling."
I think that is sarcasm. I HOPE I am reading it as intended.
The unstated problem is that all the bike lanes and trains and buses make it harder to get around, and cause way more lost value in time and fuel burned idling than they save.
I was sitting at an intersection just the other day, grumbling to myself about how in the last decade or so, the road I was on had been fucked up in that direction with bike lanes (taking the road from two lanes to one) and fucked up in the cross direction with bus lanes (taking the road from two lanes to one) and thinking about how things had been better when I was younger. And then I yelled at some clouds. *sigh*
At least they actually changed the lanes. Where I live, there is a road that started barely wide enough for 2 lanes, including the parking lane. A few years ago, they painted bicycle symbols on the travel lane, posted "share the road" signs, and declared it more bicycle friendly that it was before.
Why Are Cities Banning Them?
Because people like them.
And city planners are assholes who hate people.
Starbucks fucked themselves when they got a hard on for covid intervention. Grabbing a beverage you want to relax - they turned it into an overpriced place to pay for extra stress.
Nobody wants to risk the self order kiosks inside. Ordering from them is slow, error prone, not enough kiosks to go around, and the worst possible outcome - getting stuck behind a giant family who has no idea what they want and has a debate over every single order. They now want you to pre-order with an app. I'm not installing your fucking app.
TacoBell is fucking itself by charging restaurant prices for shit quality food.
Haven’t had Taco Bell in years, but Chipotle has also jacked up their prices-it cost me and my son nearly 40 bucks just to get a burrito and bowl with drinks the other day.
If you did try TacoBell it would be close to the same price and you would be back to Chipotle the next time. I mostly just stopped ordering a drink. Just doesn't seem worth it.
I used to pay my kids a dollar to not order a drink. Saved me a lot of money.
In Austin during the Communivirus CBW attack, the McDonald's north of campus padlocked the doors. Bicyclists weren't welcome at the drive-through. Burt thanks to the miracle of competition, I went to Dan's Hamburgers (famous in Steve Reynolds' Chicken Cordon Blues) and P.Terrys... both within two blocks.
Sounds like you ended up with a better experience. I used to occasionally eat at the D, but haven't been back sense 2019. I have been to Starbucks a few times, usually when the highway gets shut down and I need someplace to park for a few hours.
What planners envision are cities filled with childless cat ladies and granola moms sipping tea at sidewalk cafes after they walk to their yoga classes. Getting a double bacon whopper from the drive thru must go!
Paid for by their ex husbands, at least until they can get Comrade Harris elected President.
Just more progressives (modern day Puritans) trying to stop the demon car.
"It doesn't make sense to have this multi-billion investment in light rail"
Should have stopped right there.
I see that I was 32 minutes late, up above. 😀
Happens to me all the time. I just hope nobody will notice.
Environmentalism has become eliminating the conveniences of normal life.
Environmentalism has become eliminating human life.
FIFY
Some environmental radicals are explicit about that.
Drive-thru bans also overlook the market responses already addressing traffic congestion issues. Taco Bell opened its first “Defy” outlet in 2022, which features a two-story layout with four drive-thru lanes and food delivered via tubes.
WTF does that Taco Bell have to do with addressing traffic congestion issues? The issues with drive thrus and traffic congestion is about what happens OFF the drive thru property.
All non-car uses of streets take place between the road itself and the business – bike lane, parking, bus, sidewalk. To get to the business, the driver has to cut across all of those other uses. Drive thrus all create an island – the business completely surrounded by road – maybe three to five to ten islands per block. With drive-thrus, drivers crossing the bike/bus/sidewalk no longer yield to traffic on any of that. Drivers no longer see it as the road crossing all the other non-car areas. They see it as just the road. Peds now have to yield to all cars – on the sidewalk – and to all cars walking to that business. Five to ten times per block instead of just at the intersection.
It breaks the grid itself. The car has just taken over the entire grid for its sole use. Further, those re-entries to the road are the only place where drivers will yield – but only to other cars already on the road. They will stop on the sidewalk blocking it – and not even look at peds who are walking there. It turns every street with a drive thru business into a stroad. Which kills off every business that has walk up customers because ultimately what gets killed is the sidewalk (along with the peds who get hit by cars on the sidewalk).
Demolishing the city in order to turn it into a worst-of-all-worlds (a grid pattern) suburb. Suburban assholes are the ones insisting on destroying the city. No one is trying to ban drive-thrus in suburbia.
The issues with drive thrus and traffic congestion is about what happens OFF the drive thru property.
So you admit up front that it's a result of poor city planning.
To be fair, it can be very difficult to retrofit cities. Unless you mean that the city planning division should look at the approaches and egresses of a property before they grant either building or business permits. Which... hrm. Not sure how I feel about that, actually.
You can't retrofit grid-pattern cities to the car. The car takes over all other forms of mobility. Or at least that's what happened when cars were able to reach a velocity incompatible with someone walking/etc and trying to share the same space.
The suburb was designed around the exclusive mode of car. The street pattern of suburbs reinforces that. And stroads full of drive thrus in their commercial zones are part of that. Suburbs can't be retrofitted to fit walking either
If we were being honest, cities already did retrofit and they did so specifically around the automobile. We could perhaps ask why it's so hard to do now, and what the city planners intended to retrofit around.
We know they failed to plan in the past for the expansion they have seen, which means the incompetence of city planners of yesteryear are biting those cities today, and they are continuing their tradition of being bad at their one job.
They want to dictate a reduction in the use of cars, but don't have any realistic plans for what to replace it with outside of 'uhh...trains and ride a bike?'.
Trains and bikes aren't going to get the job done. If your place of work has showers, maybe, but most do not and even if they do you often don't want to use them. In, say, Dallas you would not want to do that in the summer. In Denver, you just can't do it at all in winter. City planners might as well go back to dirt roads and horses.
In fact, the biggest thing to happen in the past 70 years in regards to city congestion is remote work from home. You can do a job in downtown New York City from the comfort of your home in rural Alabama. The very concept of a 'city' is becoming outdated.
Trains and bikes aren’t going to get the job done. If your place of work has showers, maybe, but most do not and even if they do you often don’t want to use them.
You are making the assumption that city zones will be massive residential R1 zones a long distance from 'work zones' or 'commercial zones'. That sort of single-use exclusive zone is mostly US only and is obviously designed around the car as the source of transport. Obviously that sort of zoning doesn't accept bikes or walking or buses or anything else. This is why zoning questions and transport/mobility questions are so interrelated. Why TRUE cities (v cities with a bunch of suburbanites in their zoning/planning dept) will talk more about mixed use zones rather than mere 'density' of massive R1 zones. Because TRUE cities will understand that ever since the Stone Age, humans have sought to limit their work commute to 30 minutes or so each way. If that's walking, then work is nearby (which means 'work buildings' within a couple miles of where you live). If it's highway, then work is far way. But 30 minutes -and that determines both where you prefer to work and where you prefer to live
Sure. As long as you realize that most city planning (even today) is done by people who live in the suburbs (and merely commute to the city to work), who design for the convenience of the car/commuter, who spent the last 80 years obliterating the city for highways, who then started obliterating the rest of the grid to favor cars, rat runs, stroads, etc. That’s where we are now.
Everyone knows the existing city land plan/use is broken. The dispute is whether to fix it by reversing all that broke it – or doubling down on what broke it.
And let me repeat – MOST city planning even today is being done by people who don’t live in the city and thus don’t care about the consequences. It is why this constipated nonsense about spending tons of money for commuter bike lanes on arterials is still happening. A ‘plan for bikes’ that is intended to fail rather than intended to succeed. So that in the wake of that failure – more car shit can happen.
I bet if we import another 50-100 million immigrants, all those problems will be solved.
*Fiona Harrigan furiously jots notes for her next article...*
That's not all she's doing furiously at the thought of being "invaded" by 100 million illegal immigrants... serially, and in groups of up to fifty at a time...
Why can't all city planning be done by teleconference and remote work anyway?
I think it would be a great way to use 'sortition' or random selection. A large assembly of residents of the city - who set the agenda for a much smaller number of 'professionals' - and manage them - and keep them accountable. And if that assembly is only a two month 'job' - then rotate it to the next random group of residents. With AI as the way they can build on previous knowledge.
MOST city planning even today is being done by people who don’t live in the city and thus don’t care about the consequences.
It's amusing that you would say this.
If trains and bike lanes are intended to fail in order to 'push more car oriented' cities it means you are calling the vast majority of blue city managers and planners outright liars. Ok, we're on the same page there but you seem to think they do this to get more cars on the road when all the evidence points at them trying to outright kill car ownership entirely.
These people have not been quiet about their desire to kill cars once and for all for a variety of idiotic reasons.
it means you are calling the vast majority of blue city managers and planners outright liars.
Any ‘biking advocate’ who believes wearing armor is a means to (or even an irrelevancy of ) increase biking is a liar. Now maybe they just always wanted to compete in the Tour de France – but they remain a liar. It’s honestly been a failure of bike advocates ever since some moron advocated the Penny Farthing. This is the busiest bike path in the world How many of them are wearing armor? The only reason to wear armor on a bike is if you are competing with a car for space. No biker wants that.
That really should be obvious. Even if it isn't, the clear result is that those sorts of bike options will fail - and the advocate will then say 'I told you so'. What do you think happens after that?
The solution city-wide is completely separate transport networks. On a grid system, it means many streets would be closed to all thru car traffic. That's where bikes and shuttles (I say that because big buses should generally disappear) and walking etc would occur. All connected across the city so anyone can go anywhere. And arterials would be entirely cars - with no bike lanes or parking - and limited access/egress to places near their destination so much fewer traffic lights.
Fine. Let's divide up the cities (or each city) into zones without cars and zones where cars have absolute priority. And then see where people want to live and businesses want to locate.
You already have the suburbs, exurbs, and rural for that car space. Just look at a election map of the US to see what portion of the land is set aside for cars and what portion for people. No one in the suburbs is feeling cramped and looking to sprawl into the city. Likewise, with a couple of very corrupt exceptions – no one in the cities is looking to waste a ton of money for cars, parking, traffic congestion, etc merely so they can have a nearby drive thru Taco Bell.
Yes, people flee the city and the cities don't like that. They are trying to stop that from happening.
As far as the portion of land 'set aside' for cars, it's so much smaller than even outright undeveloped land that it's insane you would even bring it up.
There are very few roads outside of major urban centers. Especially when compared to actual land, developed or otherwise.
people flee the city and the cities don’t like that. They are trying to stop that from happening.
That happened in the 50's when white flight first started and when all new suburban infrastructure was paid for 90% by the federal govt with no maintenance costs yet. Cities expanded then. Maybe some still are expanding but only if they are complete fucking morons. To anyone who lives in a city - NEVER EVER EVER fucking let your city 'expand' to a suburb. They are financial black holes and they will drag the entire city into the black holes when their maintenance costs come due. Let them sink (or swim - or sprawl somewhere else) on their own. Hell let the (annexed) suburb declare its 'independence' the nanosecond it starts whining about wanting to pave over the rest of the city.
Suburbs to a large degree are fiscal ponzi schemes. Once that first infrastructure decays and has to be replaced, suburbs do not have the remotest ability to pay for that. The ponzi requires that they continue to expand and sprawl in order to get the federal grants.
That is NOT the case with cities.
There are very few roads outside of major urban centers. Especially when compared to actual land, developed or otherwise.
There are 2.8 million lane-miles of 'urban' road in the US. Up from 2.0 million in 2000. There are 6 million lane-miles of road in 'rural' - same as 2000. Most suburban stuff is actually categorized here as 'urban' though exurban stuff is probably in the rural category. They really should split up urban lane-miles by the layout of the road network (grid or suburban/hierarchical or something else) - but they don't.
At any rate - there's a ton of rural miles - and it is obvious that the 'urban' (meaning 'suburban') is expanding into what used to be 'rural'.
As far as the portion of land ‘set aside’ for cars, it’s so much smaller than even outright undeveloped land that it’s insane you would even bring it up.
23% of New York City land is set-aside for streets. Where half the population doesn't even own a car. 26% of downtown Atlanta is set-aside for PARKING (that link also has the same maps for dozens of cities - eg 45% of downtown San Bernardino).
Those aren't small numbers.
On the contrary, I see many people who live in the city have moving to the suburbs as either a long germ goal. Especially when they get children.
I see practically no one who as an adult lives in the suburbs that has any strong desire to move to the inner city.
JFree's pointing out the real problem here. It's imperceptible at businesses with ordinary driveways, but is a problem where the line in a drive-thru backs up into the street. Used to be a thing only at car washes (which also tended to use the sidewalk and even parking space on one side as a work area), and then only on sunny Sundays after periods of bad weather, but once the drive-thru concept became popular, it was death to non-car lanes and sometimes to a traffic lane as well. The line of cars is like a train stopped at a crossing.
Where is this not a problem? On the lot of a shopping center where the drive-in business is an outlying building. They're where there's little or no pedestrian traffic anyway, and nobody goes there to bicycle or to drive their bus.
"Drive-Thrus Are Booming. Why Are Cities Banning Them?"
Because drive-thrus are successful, and the democrats do running (and ruining) their cities do not want the masses to have a choice of where they eat.
Plus, drive-thrus have been proven very successful lately, and the leftist vermin running the cities hate anyone successful.
I'm ignoring every point and argument made in this article to express one thing.
I almost never use a drive-thru. Because eating in your car, even just transporting hot food in your car, is just a good way to trash your car. The steam (and thus scent) gets into the upholstery. The crumbs and detritus go everywhere. No. Just, no. What kind of disgusting pig eats out of their car, ffs.
If I'm dropping five or six figures on a vehicle, the absolute last thing in the world I'm doing with it is treating it like a friggin' picnic table. Who does that. What the hell is wrong with people? How do people have so little respect for that which has actual negotiable value?
Good God, an asteroid can't hit this planet soon enough.
I can’t understand why people would want to get grease all over their steering wheel.
Note to foreign readers: ATF just provided a textbook illustration of how mystical altruism springs from embracing death as a standard of value. Like the example from Atlas Shrugged: "To the extent to which he is irrational, the premise directing his actions is death." Or: "There is only one state that fulfills the mystic's longing for infinity, non-causality, non-identity: death." Or: "In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win."
Now explain that drivel.
You clearly don't understand any of those quotes.
Maybe if you preach about your god to him he’ll understand.
Your church is the whore of Babylon.
Enjoy mass tomorrow you idolatrous fucking papist.
Language.
And I doubt he’d understand anything. He seems to exist for the sole purpose of being contrary.
Much like you, only without the pedophilia.
I’ve repeatedly fucking told you I will watch my language if you stop the gay bashing, but you can’t help yourself. You’re too out of touch, ignorant, and fucking backwards. You are the bottom of the barrel of American society. Elites in cities don’t want to talk down to you, but you leave us no choice. You’re just too fucking pathetic.
Remember: real Americans like me have you vastly outnumbered and outgunned. If I were you I would quit talking.
Language.
I don't gay bash. You'll not find a single post where I've done anything of the sort.
But you make it a point to try and be as offensive as possible. That's your self-loathing at work. It's fixable, but you have to take the first step towards being a better person.
I can't do that for you. Nobody here can.
All you do is post bigoted lies you fucking stupid hick. Your posts are highly offensive.
People don’t choose to be gay. Why would they with evil bigots like you out there.
You CHOOSE to belong to the largest pedo organization on earth.
Your Romish god doesn’t fucking exist AND YOU FUCKING KNOW IT.
You’re just trying to cover for YOU being a pedo.
Get professional help!
Your posts are highly offensive.
Your lifestyle is even more so.
Yea, you don't choose to be gay. But you DO choose the lifestyle, don't you.
You aren’t fooling anyone pedo. Everyone knows you drive a big, beat up, white trash truck.
The "I am rubber, you are glue" routine gets old, Kar.
I've offered you help. You spit in my face every time. I still offer it.
You can be better. You don't have to be this way. You need not be a slave to your rainbow grooming. You can break free of it.
Or, there's the other option. Which I guarantee you won't like, and I'll be powerless to do anything about.
No you just talk about your god and project your insecurities on to me.
I know your god doesn’t exist. You believe a cracker can magically turn into a guy who has been dead for 2000 years.
Your church has covered up thousands of cases of abuse. Catholic priests have abused countless kids.
It is YOU who is the pedo. If anyone is going to die it’s YOU.
Real Americans like me have you traitors vastly outnumbered and outgunned.
Your church has covered up thousands of cases of abuse. Catholic priests have abused countless kids.
Yea, they're not without their faults. Man is a sinful creature by nature, beholden to his worst impulses.
The thing is - and the key difference is - your rainbow cult embraces that, instead of being ashamed of it. The LGBT pedo literally uses the word pride. Unlike Catholic priests, you LGBT pedos revel in your child abuse. You venerate child mutilation. You pray that your kids are queer, intentionally manipulating them in that direction, so you can idolize yourselves as allies. You defend putting groomers in impressionable positions, and make overt efforts to sever the parent/child relationship. You come up with euphemism and obfuscation, like MAP, to try and normalize it.
Catholic priests who fall prey to this disgusting, predatory behavior hide it because they know it's wrong.
The LGBT glorifies in it, because they think it's right. That's sick. And you're sick for being a part of and/or enabling them. And you're asking for a very unpleasant future unless you stop.
You’re just spreading bigoted lies. I’ve never heard a gay or trans person mention MAPS. It’s the christofascist bigots like you who seem to be obsessed with it.
You belong to the biggest child fucking organization on the planet you sick fuck: the whore of Babylon.
Language.
Also, I love your pedestrian, child-like approach to reality. "I've never heard someone say that, therefore it must not be true!"
So egotistical. You really do think you're the center of your own universe, don't you. Probably also why you think nobody should question your desire to diddle kids, and also explains your reactive hatred towards God.
Because you want to be your own god, don't you. One that answers to nobody. That's actually relatively common among the far radical left, and why they're incapable of realizing how far around the bend they've actually gone. Like a Zarathustra who completely failed to understand Zarathustra, and like so many who did the same eventually just became idiot Nazis.
Oh Kar. I hope you grow out of this infantile stage before some good 'ol boy with a pickup truck crosses your path.
You’re the one that is arguing things without evidence you stupid goddamn hillbilly.
You have offered zero evidence to any of your claims.
I asked you to cite me claiming to be a pedo and you couldn’t because you know you are lying.
If anyone is egotistical it’s you. Thinking your ignorant, bigoted views are in the majority when they are clearly not.
All the shit you post about your Romish god doesn’t mean shit to me because I know your god doesn’t exist. I know a cracker can’t magically turn into a guy who has been dead for 2000 years.
I hope you get out of your rural and backwater shithole and meet real Americans. Maybe then you will see how out of touch, ignorant, and bigoted you are.
Until then fuck you. Fuck your cracker Jesus. Fuck your pope. Fuck your Virgin Mary you pray to you idolatrous piece of shit. And most importantly fuck your Romish god that doesn’t exist.
How do you know he's a pedo? Does his big white trash truck have a large, photogenic LGBTQI2MAP+ trans-flag waving from the bed?
Fuck off bigot. The only mention of maps I hear is from far right bigots like you.
I’m sure all your neighbors in Seattle fucking hate living by a waste of fucking life like you.
Congrats on cock-blocking the child-trafficking legislation in California, because it would hurt the LGBTQI2MAP+ community.
I don’t live in California you stupid bigot.
The LGBT are like vegans at this point. As the old joke goes:
"How can you tell someone is vegan?"
"They'll tell you. Repeatedly. Any chance they get."
Kind of like you and calling people pedos. You do it so often that’s it’s almost like you are trying to throw suspicion off of yourself.
And then you admitted to belonging to the biggest Pedo organization on earth: the Romish church.
You’re the fucking pedo dude.
Not "people" - at least, not on this site. Just you.
Because you've admitted it multiple times.
You keep trying to deflect, but multiple people - not just me - have called you out on this repeatedly.
Then you will have no problem citing me admitting that then?
You won’t because you know that is a bald face fucking lie.
You are just trying to deflect from you CHOOSING to belong to the biggest pedo organization on earth.
Please seek professional help!
Then you will have no problem citing me admitting that then?
Well, I'm not going to go digging for old quotes (who has the time) but we can establish it right here and right now.
LGBTQ+ - supporter/ally or opponent?
Of course you won’t because it’s a god damn lie! And you fucking know it you lying fucking papist. I guess you think it’s ok if you tell your papist priest during confession.
You choose to belong to the largest pedo organization on earth: the Romish church.
You’re the pedo and/or pedo enabler.
The facts and the American public are on my side.
What kind of disgusting pig eats out of their car, ffs.
People who aren't anywhere near as neurotic as you, Grampa.
But if I ever spend six figures on a vehicle, (I presume you're not counting the two after the decimal point) I probably won't eat in it either.
It's still pretty disgusting, whether you're the driver or a passenger. It's marginally workable at a drive-in, where they stick an outboard tray on your window(s) while you're parked, and you eat while still parked; but if you don't have such a thing and you're the driver with a steering wheel stuck in front of you, the only good place to park the food is the passenger seat. And if you're the front seat passenger, even that option is precluded. The only comfortable one might be a single back seat passenger.
Cup holders are often overburdened. And if — when, really — you spill, how are you going to clean that? It's probably going to dry in place while fermenting and drawing flies or ants. Crumbs can be vacuumed out, although the space under the seats and the crack in the chair is difficult to get at.
I used to get weird looks during the Scamdemic when I’d order drive-thru, for lack of any other immediate option, and then pull my car around, park, hop out, and eat it there in the parking lot while leaning against my hood or something. Never mind screwing up your car. It screws up the food too.
That’s another thing I don’t understand about drive-thru (especially for restaurants that aren’t quick-serve and you’re paying higher dollar - what do they call it, curbside delivery, I think?). Same reason I never use Ubereats or Doordash or whatever.
I like my food fresh. It’s made-to-order, so eat it that way. Letting it steam in a bag or a plastic box for a car ride of indeterminate length is just paying good money for ruined food. Crispy fries become soggy fries. Cheesy fresh pasta becomes a wet melted lump. Chicken wings become a satanic culinary abomination. Pizza can usually hold its own, but only because Domino’s spent decades perfecting delivery. But pretty much anything else dies in transit.
It’s all just trading quality for convenience. A lowering of standards for a society that’s quickly reaching peak laziness.
People who aren’t anywhere near as neurotic as you, Grampa.
Hahahahaha! That got a genuine laugh out of me.
Yea, maybe I am a little neurotic. Still, it's just one of those things. Same with people who smoke or put "air fresheners" in their car (because they've already ruined the upholstery and now are compelled to mask it). Bleh. Have more respect for your stuff. Especially the really expensive stuff.
I suppose it comes down to my disdain for a society that has shamefully learned to treat everything as disposable and replaceable.
Not only do I dislike drive-thrus for food — and I'm not even a particularly neat person, nor do I drive an expensive car, but the spillage and discomfort factor is a deterrent even for me — but as a tall, fat person I don't even like them for banking. Getting things in and out of my pants pockets while I'm sitting with a lap and shoulder belt on is difficult and uncomfortable.
Atlanta I can see. Someone there had the temerity to try to prosecute a qualified-immunity cop for making the Wendy's into a drive-through slaughterhouse & funeral parlor for black guys. Sometimes overstepping the line brings on knee-jerk overregulation. The rest of the article made sense.
We just have to admit it: bureaucrats know what's best for us.
"Don't just admit, submit."
A final consideration lost in the drive-thru debate is the vital role many fast-food outlets play in their communities. In some lower- and middle-class areas, restaurants like McDonald’s have become a crucial “third place”—venues where locals gather for everything from Bible studies to bingo.
Oh FFS. You obviously haven’t read the article you link to. No one who understands what a third place is would be surprised at a local McDonalds being one. Every GenX mall rat understood what hanging out at the mall meant and it wasn't because the places to eat there were more upscale than McDonalds..
What is 100% true is that NO ONE goes to the drive thru at a McDonalds to play bingo in the drive thru lanes. Try it sometime and I’m sure you’ll find out how much road rage is lined up there behind you.
Like how the YIMBY movement is tightly attached to Rent Control and forcing everyone into 45 sq foot sleep pods, the *checks Reason fanmail list* congestion pricing community doesn't think much of your drive-thrus.
Don’t like it the move you stupid fucking bigot. I’m sure your neighbors will throw a big party once your treasonous ass is gone.
So, what's this I'm hearing about some RussiaGate 2.0, This Time We're Serious?
It is possibly The Regime cracking down on its political opponents free speech.
"For modern urban planners, walkability is the goal. "The more drive-thrus you build, the more car-centric you become—as opposed to something that has more mobility options," said Keba Samuel, chair of the Charlotte Planning Commission in North Carolina. "It doesn't make sense to have this multi-billion investment in light rail and still encourage an auto-centric environment. It's contradictory.""
Urban planners do get very cross when the human shaped widgets refuse to behave in the ways that planners want them to, and will work to eliminate the widgets abilies to choose otherwise.
I have to agree. Urban planners are insufferable. Though I do find it amusing to watch them be apoplectic at the "soulless" suburbs where everyone is moving. Because of course everyone wants to live in a walkable 15 minute city, actual sales numbers be darned.
Because of course everyone wants to live in a walkable 15 minute city, actual sales numbers be darned.
Most places in US cities are not remotely 15 minute cities (which is really only a neighborhood centered around your house). The neighborhoods that are 15 minute walkable are BY FAR the most expensive neighborhoods. So yes people want to live there - and will pay to do so.
The most cynical interpretation of '15 minute city' is just spin by developers/gentrifiers - to eliminate housing in those areas that are ripe for gentrifying. That just need one or two more nearby amenities to be '15 minute walkable'
As one who has been discriminated against (i.e. banned) by many/most drive throughs (because I don't own a smartphone that is needed to place an order), I hope they ban all drive throughs (and all other types of business/services that intentionally discriminate (i.e. refuse to do business) with those of us who don't own a electronic device.
When I recently applied to receive my monthly Social Security, even they discriminated against me (for not owning an electronic device), as I was required to use my wife's device to apply).
We also are denied the ability to purchase tickets for professional sports teams, concert venues, and many other business transactions (that refuse to do business transactions via land line phones or in person).
I’m missing out on more and more things by not having a mobile device. But they're costly to keep up.
I'll bet you $1,000 Keba owns more than one car.
---------------
Keba Samuel, chair of the Charlotte Planning Commission in North Carolina. "It doesn't make sense to have this multi-billion investment in light rail and still encourage an auto-centric environment. It's contradictory."
In my area the answer is simple: COVID. Sitting down in a restaurant was FORBIDDEN for most of two years, and karens are still discouraging walking into a brick and mortar establishment. So yeah, loads of people are using drive-thrus out of habit.
My local Chik-fil-a has a car line all ready the parking lot and into actual major thoroughfare traffic from 11:00AM to 1:00PM. Now that is due to the incredible popularity of Chik-fil-a. Used to be damned good chicken, now is just meh chicken, but still the better chicken one can get from a fast food chain without going broke (dammit KFC, what the fuck are you doing with your prices?!?!).
But McDonnies in my home town has a similar line on Wednesdays. Because Wednesday's are twenty five cent hamburger days. For a very poor community, these are the cheapest calories one can get.
But back to banning the drive-thrus. Those cities must be wanting more cases of COVID (and influenza), because they're encourages close physical proximity for its citizens. No real problem with that, but it was something that was FORBIDDEN by the same governments barely two short years ago.