Mark Zuckerberg Told the Truth—and That's a Good Thing
In defense of Meta's CEO.

Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has now admitted publicly that moderators at Facebook and Instagram faced vast pressure from the federal government to take down contrarian COVID-19 content, election-related content—including jokes and satire—as well as the New York Post's Hunter Biden laptop story. This led the platforms to make moderation decisions that Zuckerberg now regrets. "I believe the government pressure was wrong, and I regret that we were not more outspoken about it," wrote Zuckerberg in a letter to the House Judiciary Committee, which is investigating the suppression of speech on social media. "We're ready to pushback if something like this happens again."
This is a welcome development, although not everyone who previously complained about the company's moderation policies is happy about it. Venture capitalist Eric Weinstein, for instance, opined that Zuckerberg's wealth should be "distributed to those he targeted and wronged" as recompense for what occurred under his watch.
Mark Zuckerberg owes a lot of people a lot of money in damages. Lost lives. Lost elections. Losses in reputation.
I'm delighted that he is turning around.
But those he hurt deserve deep financial compensation/exoneration.
We should not be having to say this on our own behalf.… https://t.co/Rnysmv3kbs pic.twitter.com/VDNIsxGTZp
— Eric Weinstein (@EricRWeinstein) August 27, 2024
That's some serious victim-blaming. Zuckerberg's critics like to pretend that standing up to the federal government would have been an easy choice; obviously, it wasn't. President Joe Biden accused Facebook of "killing people" and implied that he would call for congressional action to punish the company if it did not fall in line. Kate Bedingfield, a member of Biden's communications team, explicitly told MSNBC that the administration would target Meta's Section 230 protection if the platforms did not heed the government's requests.
It wasn't as if Republicans had been offering incentives for Zuckerberg and other tech CEOs to act bravely. On the contrary: Many in the Republican Party are just as eager to abolish Section 230 as their Democratic counterparts. Former President Donald Trump, current Republican vice presidential candidate J.D. Vance, Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.), and many others have all inveighed against the law. This is foolishness.
You are reading Free Media from Robby Soave and Reason. Get more of Robby's on-the-media, disinformation, and free speech coverage.
230 Reasons Why
As a reminder, Section 230 is the federal statute that makes social media possible. Enacted in 1996 as part of the Communications Decency Act, the law establishes that internet websites are not generally liable for content generated by third parties. In a nutshell, this means that if a user writes something libelous on Facebook, that person can be sued—Facebook cannot be sued. It's impossible to overstate the importance of this legal protection; if websites were held liable for all content, they would become significantly more restrictive.
It's no surprise, then, that prominent Democrats are universally in support of removing Section 230 protections. They think social media companies do not moderate enough content, and that more ought to be done to curb so-called hate speech and misinformation. They correctly surmise that one way to encourage more heavy-handed moderation would be to eliminate Section 230, thus stripping social media sites of their protection from frivolous lawsuits. Democrats understand that the rise of social media has been a positive development for conservative, independent, libertarian, contrarian, and alternative media ecosystems; the swiftest way to destroy these ecosystems would be to deprive the platforms of their legal shield.
That's why the threats from the Biden administration were so very serious for Meta, X, Google, and other tech giants. There was a very real possibility that censorship-minded Democrats and misguided, tech-phobic Republicans would come together and approve federal legislation to punish social media sites. Many in the GOP were perfectly willing to abandon free market principles and join Democrats in going after Zuckerberg; is it any surprise, then, that Meta, lacking allies, was reluctant to tell the feds to buzz off?
Gift-Wrapped
Meanwhile, the worst reaction to Zuckerberg's letter came courtesy of CNN, which headlined the news writeup of the development in this manner: "Mark Zuckerberg's election-season gift to Republicans."
"Mark Zuckerberg is handing Republicans political victories ahead of the 2024 presidential election, acquiescing to years of GOP grievances over his company's policies," wrote CNN's Jon Passantino, a deputy managing editor.
According to the article's framing, the federal pressure campaign directed at Zuckerberg was not the problem—the real problem was Zuckerberg revealing the existence of the pressure campaign. Passantino seems to suggest that it was bad to expose the efforts by federal bureaucrats to browbeat social media companies into removing provocative content.
"The letter was immediately weaponized by Trump," he lamented.
If Zuckerberg's letter is a potent weapon for Republicans, perhaps the Biden administration deserves some blame for equipping them with it. Incessantly pestering social media companies—in a manner that raises fundamental First Amendment questions—was a choice, and a bad one. It's telling that CNN has little to say about this and would rather complain that Zuckerberg, at long last, has had enough.
This Week on Free Media
We are taking one more week off, but I'll be back next week with Amber Duke! In the meantime, check out this Rising segment in which we discuss the arrest of Telegram CEO Pavel Durov—an appalling attack on free speech. (Incidentally, this sort of thing is exactly why Section 230 is important: The owners of the platforms should not be held generally liable for the content.)
Worth Watching
I have just completed my semi-annual replay of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which I have previously described as the greatest video game of all time (even though its sequel, Majora's Mask, is my personal favorite). As I wrote in Reason for OoT's 20th anniversary:
Midway through the game, everything changes. Link steps through the Door of Time and goes to sleep for seven years. When he wakes up, he's an adult, and the idyllic world of his childhood is gone. (The game won't even let Link use his slingshot anymore, even though it's still sitting right there in his inventory.) The marketplace that surrounds the castle is a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and the first living creature Link encounters tries to paralyze him, climb atop him, and drain his life force (a maneuver that looks a lot like sexual assault, in hindsight). Back at home in the forest, none of Link's friends recognize him, and his next destination, the Forest Temple, is the stuff of nightmares.
This is followed by the Fire Temple, and then the Water Temple, a dungeon so difficult that Nintendo actually toned it down when the game was re-released years later. By the time Link reaches the Shadow Temple, it's clear he's in a horror story, not a fairy tale. Working in the game's favor here are the creepy graphics, which were advanced enough to look somewhat real, but not real enough—inadvertently positioning most of the game's bad guys somewhere in the uncanny valley.
I must have been 10 years old when I unwrapped the game on Christmas morning in 1998. In the years before that Christmas, I read the Wizard of Oz and Narnia books; in the years immediately after, I would read The Lord of the Rings and Dune. I can't help but suppose that Link's journey through the Door of Time took place near the end of my own childhood, forever raising my expectations for what narrative fantasy could deliver, regardless of the medium. OoT did the same for the broader world of video gaming. You're all grown up now.
The game is available on the Nintendo Switch's virtual N64 console. Except for aiming with the bow and arrow—a nightmare on the Switch controller—the experience is just as enjoyable as it was in 1998.
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It wasn't as if Republicans had been offering incentives for Zuckerberg and other tech CEOs to act bravely. On the contrary: many in the Republican Party are just as eager to abolish Section 230 as their Democratic counterparts
Stupid take, as always. No point in reading any further.
Ds want to censor inconvenient facts. Ds want less freedom, more nanny-state. Ds are willing to bully, harass and punish defectors, detractors, non-believers.
Rs want platforms to decide between publisher's liability, or immunity for what others publish. Leftists hate taking responsibility for their actions.
Telling truth only when it suits you isn’t valuing the truth. Zuckerberg choosing what speech to censor isn’t valuing free speech.
The satanic controlled media and government are brainwashing the population to reject civilized values, most of all the concept of right versus wrong.
When scientific fact is disregarded, and children are counseled that they can change their sex with surgery, complete nonsense, what chance do ethical values like right versus wrong have in the human psyche?
These brainwashing attacks are backed up with laws and coercion that violates our inalienable constitutional rights.
When right versus wrong are meaningless, it logically follows that truth versus lies must be equally meaningless and then all communication becomes meaningless babble with no point whatsoever.
People are defined by our actions.
When right, wrong, truth and lies are all meaningless, all our thoughts are equally meaningless and any actions we take again meaningless, our future meaningless, all concepts that we could ever perceive- meaningless.
Not exactly a plan for success.
If that’s your worldview and you want to babble here, do us all a favour, and get straight to your conclusion that everything you say is meaningless.
Refuted!
Meaningless babble.
Bullshit from Nazi shitbag; FOAD, asshole
Meaningless babble.
For 80% of Reason articles, reading the headline and the author's name is all that is needed.
That is true. Usually, I like Soave's stuff.
You know something? It's actually pretty safe for someone like Zuck to stand up to government. He's got a huge social media platform at his beck and call.
Imagine releasing all those government email and bragging about saying NO.
Imagine releasing recorded phone calls and bragging about saying NO, and daring them to come charge him with recording without his permission.
Imagine reporting all the new tax audit calls his accountants get.
Imagine plastering that all over Facebook.
Yeah, real hard. He might lose a few million in billable lawyer and accountant hours. Boo hoo. Look at Elon Musk if you want a better example.
Zuck's a gutless skunk. Other people with far less money stand up to the government better than Zuck.
The only gutless thing Zuckerberg is doing is pretending he was forced against his will to do what he obviously wanted to do anyway. He's just afraid of consequences for getting caught. Let's not forget that he spent $500 million dollars bribing election officials for the 2020 election.
You're right about that, it's just a pretense. Robby fell for it, hook line and sinker.
Robby didn't fall for anything, he's in on the gaslighting. Robby was all for the "private company" lie and dismissive of the concerns about public strongarming, he's now demanding everyone just move along so no lessons are learned.
Let's also note that his company was busy hiring former Obama admin officials during the Trump administration, and then strangely those people had a direct line into the censorship efforts of Facebook.
Sure, Zuck regrets this now, but if he REALLY is showing some contrition now, it isn't because he was always a principled dude with his arms twisted behind his back. No, he cozied up to the government deliberately, and helped them craft narratives that he was sympathetic with. We don't know for sure why Zuckerberg invited the vampire into his house- perhaps he liked the ends, or perhaps he was a craven, power-obsessed lizardman. But whether he was an ideologue or an opportunist, he clearly welcomed the government censorship program with full understanding of what was transpiring.
Likewise we don't know why he suddenly came clean. But what I do know for sure is that Zuckerberg should not get the innoncent victim treatment that Soave gives him. He is at best a willful participant who developed a conscience after freely participating in a conspiracy to censor american citizens on behalf of the Federal Government. More likely he is no better than your average mob-informant turning on his masters to save his own neck.
Likewise we don’t know why he suddenly came clean. But what I do know for sure is that Zuckerberg should not get the innoncent victim treatment that Soave gives him.
He 'came clean' probably for the same reason Bill Maher has made some tepid criticisms of the Wokeish. He looked around the room and realized he wasn't one of the cool kids any more.
Something something drunk college friend in back seats.
Zuck has always been the antithesis of cool.
Correct, like all other chews, he has no principles, except for the ones that bring him money.
I disagree. Zuckerberg originally tried to maintain Facebook as an absolutist free speech platform, and wound up getting hauled in front of Congress for his trouble.
As big as Zuckerberg is, the USG is a lot bigger, and has been pointed out, while he was getting his marching orders from the left, he had few if any allies on the right, either. He’s been trying to walk the fine line between trying to maintain his business, and fending off threats from the government, and while he’s certainly made some bad calls, my impression is he’s been trying to do the right thing in an unprecedented situation, with some extremely powerful forces aligned against him.
That’s a pretty scary situation to be in, and nobody wants to be a dead hero. I generally regard Zuckerberg as a basically decent human being in a dicey and possibly dangerous situation.
Sure, he could have handled it better, perhaps as Musk did. But keep in mind, Musk, through SpaceX, is essentially an indispensable asset to the USG, making him hard to cancel. Also, Musk had no previous experience in a media business, and quite possibly his courage is as much the result of naivety as of virtue. If Twitter gets canceled, as it well might, Musk has any number of other businesses to fall back on. Zuckerberg has no such fall back position. All of his eggs are in one basket. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of a doubt.
“Dead hero” my ass. All he had to risk was a few million. The saying used to be, “Never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel.” He’s got the biggest bully pulpit in the world, as evidenced by some much government effort to silence it.
Free speech absolutist my ass. He’s had his benefit of the doubt, and it went up in smoke.
ETA: Do you really believe it was "dangerous" to buck the government? Are you suggesting he built that bunker in case the government came after him? Dead hero, dangerous, you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
He's not just risking a few million, he's risking his entire business. Just take a look at Twitter. They've been losing money since being acquired by Musk. Zuckerberg's advertisers can be intimidated into abandoning him just as Musk's are. The fact that Musk is being (loudly) public about what's happening at Twitter isn't stopping it from happening. Why would it stop it from happening to Zuckerberg as well?
>>He’s not just risking a few million, he’s risking his entire business.
join the immoral tyrant authoritarians still the wrong choice.
It was the rational choice. As Dunkel points out, it wouldn’t have been just him in the government crosshairs. His advertisers, as in the company’s sole source of revenue, would be targeted as well. Not that I would mourn the passing of Facederp, but the feds could have realistically shut the whole thing down. So he kept his head down and did what he was told.
>>So he kept his head down and did what he was told.
ya and he's forever a fascista conspirator and perhaps the world's most famous pussy now.
Yes, we know you’re ok with it sarc.
One can be rational and still be evil. "If I just compromise my morals, it will be good for me!" That isn't the defense that you think it is.
As has been said many times, the COVID situation was useful in helping us know who would have turned Anne Frank in and who would have hidden her.
Masks were the star of david and nobody made it out of quarantine alive.
No, masks are the Nazi armband.
The true heroes went around softly coughing at people.
Poor sarc.
So if muggers are known to rob everyone going through an alley, your solution is to tell people the alley is safe instead of either telling them to avoid the alley or *gasp* clean the damn muggers out?
ETA: Especially if you’ve got the biggest tourist map franchise in the city and purposely labeling the alley as the safest route.
Suckaturd did it because he was told to. Otherwise he risked losing support from the CIA and Pentagram.
Fuck off, Twitter was never profitable so to pretend this started at the acquisition is dishonest BS.
""ETA: Do you really believe it was “dangerous” to buck the government? ""
Ask Trump.
He's fighting back. Are you saying Zuck s braver? Most of Trump's gut appeal comes from fighting back. Does anyone praise Biden and Harris for fighting back?
The fucker spent millions of dollars to make sure Trump didn't get reelected. He had already picked his side. Strategically and enthusiastically.
Zuckerberg intentionally hired numerous Obama administration folks into his company into positions with direct control over their moderation activities. At the same time he was directing his private fortune to ensure primarily blue counties could get the vote out in swing states. He was clearly a leftist sympathizer, and he clearly felt that people on the left- especially government spokesholes- should be helping define "acceptable" content.
I have worked at these tech companies, and the push inside of them to do exactly what he did was constant and never-ending. Very few companies resisted this pressure to censor on behalf of the Democratic message. Facebook was one of those that very quickly attempted to censor in order to ingratiate itself with the government.
Also, as far as Section 230 goes, it would seem the first amendment might take precedence.
That being said, if we are talking about Section 230, wouldn't that require Facebook not to exercise any content moderation? Or is there some magical number of moderation control they can exercise while still getting those protections?
Because, notably, meeting the governments expectation of information suppression seems to me to be obvious content moderation that you would expect from, say, a newspaper which doesn't get those 'protections'.
Personally, I think places like Facebook are just too useful of a tool for three letter agencies to give up and they are using Section 230 as a threat to make sure these places stay under their thumb. That's only 'protection' in the same way a business might pay protection money to the mob.
No. Section 230 was an attempt to streamline and clarify what many believed would be held up in court as a first amendment right anyways. The reasoning at the time it was passed was that it was better to pre-empt many, many legal battles (essentially bleeding companies dry with moderation requirements that each needed to be sent to the supreme court) and adopt a framework of law that they felt FOLLOWED the first amendment, not pre-empted it.
230 does not require no moderation. It says that creators of content are responsible for speech. And it says that the platform owner is responsible only for their own content- not the content of 3rd parties. If you want to create a Knitting Forum and ban all political talk, you are free to do that. This doesn't make you responsible for the content that your users produce. Likewise, if you want to be a free speech absolutist, then you are free to let all content live (subject to real laws against content, eg kiddy porn).
If true, it would seem Section 230 would apply to lots of outlets and not just 'social media'. Say, the WaPo webpage for example. How does one sue WaPo when clearly the person that wrote the story is the one who defamed or penned the libel.
Curious since apparently my understanding on what S230 covered is very wrong.
Section 230 does this by distinguishing between content created by the publisher (i.e. articles written by someone under the editorial jurisdiction of WaPo, like its "journalists" ) and content created by an un-managed third party (such as comments on that same article). WaPo could be held accountable for libel if their employee or contractor published untrue info about you. But not if a 3rd party made an unfounded accusation in the comments.
As insufferable as I find this guy (including his condescending tone), his article is very insightful:
https://www.techdirt.com/2020/06/23/hello-youve-been-referred-here-because-youre-wrong-about-section-230-communications-decency-act/
I think an important point here is that Republicans trying to fight censorship were deffinitely misguided in blaming 230. But they did not realize the extent to which their own government was most of the problem.
I completely disagree with Soave's contention that Zuck feared a GOP / Dem coalition regulating him. He made most of his egregious attacks on free speach to clearly tilt the scales in favor of the Democrats. Either he wanted their regulation to win, or feared it would win anyways.
But that doesn't mean the Republicans were right in trying to reign in these platforms. Giving any power to the government in this regard would be as bad idea as the (GOP Supported) Patriot Act. And any GOP pushing for this change would be serving the Dem agenda just as completely as when they handed the Obama administration a government so fully enabled by the Patriot Act.
OPEN QUESTIONS FOR ALL ENEMIES OF SECTION 230
The day after tomorrow, you get a jury summons. You will be asked to rule in the following case: A poster posted the following to social media: “Government Almighty LOVES US ALL, FAR more than we can EVER know!”
This attracted protests from liberals, who thought that they may have detected hints of sarcasm, which was hurtful, and invalidated the personhoods of a few Sensitive Souls. It ALSO attracted protests from conservatives, who were miffed that this was a PARTIAL truth only (thereby being at least partially a lie), with the REAL, full TRUTH AND ONLY THE TRUTH being, “Government Almighty of Der TrumpfenFuhrer ONLY, LOVES US ALL, FAR more than we can EVER know! Thou shalt have NO Government Almighty without Der TrumpfenFuhrer, for Our TrumpfenFuhrer is a jealous Government Almighty!”
Ministry of Truth, and Ministry of Hurt Baby Feelings, officials were consulted. Now there are charges!
QUESTIONS FOR YOU THE JUROR:
“Government Almighty LOVES US ALL”, true or false?
“Government Almighty LOVES US ALL”, hurtful sarcasm or not?
Will you be utterly delighted to serve on this jury? Keep in mind that OJ Simpson got an 11-month criminal trial! And a 4-month civil trial!
That's why the threats from the Biden administration were so very serious for Meta, X, Google, and other tech giants. There was a very real possibility that censorship-minded Democrats and misguided, tech-phobic Republicans would come together and approve federal legislation to punish social media sites. Many in the GOP were perfectly willing to abandon free market principles and join Democrats in going after Zuckerberg; is it any surprise, then, that Meta, lacking allies, was reluctant to tell the feds to buzz off?
Doesn't matter. They helped the leftists. That makes them leftists. Once a leftist, always a leftist.
That is one hell of a convoluted rationalization for abandoning free speech as a guiding principle in general and corruptly colluding with the Biden Administration in trying to cover up a potentially embarrassing if not incriminating news story to the sitting President in specific.
Colluding implies being a willing participant. Coerced would be more accurate. But that would mean Zuck was the victim. Can't have that. He slighted Trump! So the MAGAs are now pushing this “Zuck would have done it anyway” narrative and, in their blind hatred, totally missing that in doing so they're giving Biden a pass. It's pretty funny to watch.
Zuckerberg may not have been willing (though he was perhaps less than brave, to be kind), but I think there is considerable evidence thata lot of Meta’s executives and employees were willing and even enthusiastic to help a Democrat campaign/adminstration.
Right. With the clear implication that they would have rebelled had it been a Republican campaign/administration. That may or may not be true. I think that many of them just thought they were doing the right thing by fighting what they believed to be "misinformation." I also think that what they did was wrong, and think it's stupid that I have to say that. But I know someone will claim I supported what they did.
But here is thing: it is not a social media platform’s job to “fight misinformation”. They are not properly equipped to handle it. Especially taking into account that “misinformation” does not necessarily mean untrue information. It means information that contradicts an official narrative.
So I cannot grant them a benefit of the doubt for good intentions.
I can disagree with someone without believing they have bad intentions. Strange, I know.
So can I. I just do not think good intentions is a credible excuse for the wrongs Meta’s staff committed.
Someone can be totally wrong and well intentioned at the same time. Doing the wrong thing doesn’t negate their intentions.
I'm sure that it's also true that some of the staff cackled on the way to work, swerving as they rubbed their clawed hands together in anticipation of disrupting Trump and helping Democrats, with their pointy hats sticking out of their sunroof, because that's what evil people do. They probably had warts and wore green makeup too.
And they were just following orders, also,I suppose.
But what is the road to Hell paved with again?
Election interference aside, Meta flagged posts for simply posing questions about covid. The intentions were clear. They squashed QUESTIONS as mis/disinformation.
So yeah, they are fucking evil.
Because flagging posts and guarding death camps are the same thing.
I don't know why I bother. You guys are fucking mental.
Poor sarc.
But they told us what their intentions were. And we said “those intentions are not good” and then we were told “shut up, they’re a private company”…
Poor sarc.
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which I have previously described as the greatest video game of all time
Get a load of the guy who never played Bubble Bobble.
When it was new my nephew played that retarded Zelda game for an entire ski trip ... instead of skiing lolwtf
I thought I was the only one who ever played Bubbke Bobble, lol.
My sister used to play until she lost a life, then she'd start it over an do it again in an attempt to play the game through on one life (don't remember if she ever did). Fast forward 20ish years later after my son learned to play, she picked it up for the first time since high school and immediately ripped off something like 50 levels on one guy. My son nearly shit himself.
Right on, Robbi! I feel like the commentary blaming Zuckerberg takes the light off the biggest culprit - government. Zuckerberg admitted that he was coerced and didn't respond well. Are we to let the one who extorted him off the hook?
ya no.
People saying he was going to do it anyway don't even realize they're letting the Biden administration off the hook. They're too stupid.
You can't rape the willing and Zuck was a willing participant in this now looking to get out of possible blowback. The only people trying to let others off the hook are Robby and those like you.
can't put the 2020 cat back in the box. also he said he wasn't taking a freaky stand this time & yesterday morning post-confession lol his bucks were still being donated for electioneering.
Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has now admitted publicly that moderators at Facebook and Instagram faced vast pressure from the federal government to take down contrarian COVID-19 content, election-related content—including jokes and satire—as well as the New York Post's Hunter Biden laptop story
I see a bunch of cowards who were desperate for a reason to do anything to help Biden. "Vast pressure from the federal government" is an ex post facto, thimble-size fig leaf to cover the decision makers at Facebook's moral impotence.
While it is a good thing Zuckerberg is telling the truth now, it would have been more useful if he had told the truth then.
Can we get a little MEA CULPA from many of the writers here about how wrong they were about the whole "but private company" thing? All who turned a blind eye to the pressure.
For Crissakes. There is nothing groundbreaking or even particularly interesting about this story. Zuckerberg preemptively covers his ass prior to testifying in front of a congressional committee when all of this has been in the public record for years. Meh.
Sure we all knew it, but if Trump were to bring it up in, say, a debate, the “moderator” would jump in and say there’s no proof of that. Now they can’t. This could be a big benefit to Trump if he plays it right.
but if Trump were to bring it up in, say, a debate, the “moderator” would jump in and say there’s no proof of that.
Don't hold your breath.
I can see plenty of, "So what you're saying is..............." when Trump is on the debate stage.
‘President Joe Biden accused Facebook of “killing people” and implied that he would call for Congressional action to punish the company if it did not fall in line.’
For democracy and freedom!
"Calling for Congressional action" is precisely an appeal to...democracy.
A late truth is better than none. Even if it was only because of fear of being destroyed motivated Zuckerberg, what is important is that the truth finally came out and did so before this election, even if it would have been more effective in the last election.
I don't care about a person's motivation for doing the right thing, or even doing the wrong thing. The only question is will Zuckerberg continue doing the right thing, or will his courage fade at the prospect (now a virtual certainty) of a Harris administration. Rewarding him for honesty will not make things worse.
For those of you who ignore reality and believe that present trends portend a massive Trump victory, I'd suggest that you look at RealClearPolitics polls and see how Harris is trouncing Trump.
Do you think that we would be better off if Zuckerberg had kept his silence? If Trump can reverse the present trends, it will be with the help of a reasonably fair coverage by social media. Social media is just that, social. It is made so by citizens, not bureaucrats.
The present election is basically the Insult Comic vs the Invisible Woman. Trump is incapable of changing his spots so it is up to the rest of us to rip the cloak of invisibility from Harris.
Good news aside, there was no "truth" being shared by Zuckerberg here. He was just making sure his excuses lined up.
The government did not "coerce" Facebook by threatening to legislate--that's their fucking job. Even threatening to repeal Section 230 (which is a bipartisan idiocy, but much more of a Republican one) is not "coercion"; it's a policy decision. A stupid policy decision, but one which wouldn't necessarily violate anyone's rights.
Facebook never pushed back, never defied a court order--nothing--because there was nothing to push back against, and no court orders to defy. But Facebook was pressured--to follow its own moderation policies. Which they (sort of) did.
That’s some serious victim-blaming. Zuckerberg’s critics like to pretend that standing up to the federal government would have been an easy choice; obviously, it wasn’t.
If I hit the car in front of me, I’m at fault even if I was rear ended. Insurance co of course will seek to be made whole and sue the original rear ender. So Zuck & co should be held at fault for his companies actions and let Meta sue the feds to recoup the lose.
Even in a "no fault" jurisdiction?
"Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has now admitted publicly that moderators at Facebook and Instagram faced vast pressure from the federal government to take down contrarian COVID-19 content, election-related content—including jokes and satire—as well as the New York Post’s Hunter Biden laptop story."
So an admission of illegal election tampering, and he get applause form a 'libertarian' website?
Bullshit.
Bullshit is right.
As a reminder, Section 230 is the federal statute that makes social media possible.
No, it isn't. The First Amendment, as interpreted in Cubby v. Compuserve (S.D.N.Y. 1991), is more than sufficient to make social media possible. All a social media site has to do to operate under the safe harbor from liability for third-party content provided by Cubby is refrain from controlling third-party content; if they don't control it, they aren't responsible for it.
Section 230, like all the other parts of the Communication Decency Act, was crafted to promote censorship, and that's exactly what it does.
If Section 230 were repealed, major social media would have to become significantly less restrictive, because ending review of third-party content in order to take advantage of Cubby would be the only way they could efficiently shield themselves from liability. The sites that tried to maintain their current speech censorship rules would be bankrupted by lawsuits. Those that attempted to adopt stricter controls would either bankrupt themselves trying to pay enough trained censors to keep up with the the volume of posts (there are 1.1 billion status updates and comments on Facebook each day), or have to cripple themselves by deliberately cutting the volume of content allowed to something they could review in real time.
After repeal of Section 230, only uncensored social media sites, taking advantage of Cubby protection from liability, would be financially able to be major social media sites.
The intent of Section 230 was to provide a window for limited moderation of speech promoting illegality and obscenity without incurring liability for everything else. It has morphed into protection for general ideological moderation without incurring liability. At the very leat 230 needs to be reformed, as it seems to be more an excuse for limiting the social media user's free speech than enabling.it.
Counter point, Alex Berenson forced Twitter to settle (he won) because S230 isn't a protection for general ideological moderation without incurring liability. Judge ruled no S230 protection for them violating their terms of service. He had good lawyers who didn't make it about 1A violations and public town square bs like PragerU did in their lawsuit against youtube (there were other claims they lost on as well, would need to look up).
"The intent of Section 230 was to provide a window for limited moderation of speech..."
Who appointed YOU to decide twat S-230 means? WHY does shit not simply mean twat shit says? "Thou Shalt Not Punish Party A for twat Party B has written"? Twat does shit take, YOU being punished for what I have written? Before ye will, at long last, see the injustice here, in tearing down S-230?
Cubby was expanded by Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Services Co. wherein ignorance of what was put online by third parties was considered a defense. (Prodigy wasn't ignorant, it exercised control over what was posted so it lost)
Does "Ignorance is Strength" sound familiar? That was the conclusion of several online companies.
Posts by Nazi cannibalistic pedophiles extolling the joy of defiling children before killing and eating them are not a violation of the 1st Amendment. Section 230 says that if you remove such a post, you are not liable. Would it better if, in the name of a free press, that post killed your business when people dropped their subscriptions as soon as they stopped vomiting? That is what ending Section 230 would mean.
I guess it would at least force ore people to realize that "social media" is at least not social, in the free and open sense, just another marketing enterprise. Hosts are free to run forums without sponsors, and can (OMG) charge participants to cover costs.
You aren't fooling anyone.
1. "Cubby was expanded by Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Services Co." - This doesn't even make sense and seems overtly structured as a lie to support your narrative. Prodigy cited the defense you assert... and lost. That is, they said they were ignorant of the content and the court found that not only did they moderate according to their TOS, they had an additional shadow moderation system that involved C-level executives. They found the system was used specifically in the discussion of Oakmont and that executive authority was exercised in the moderation, they "Ignorance is strength?" *didn't* play because the court couldn't possibly believe they were ignorant. Even setting aside all the technical details and pro-/con- the statement that it expanded the precedent is like saying having your hand amputated expands the precedent set by your by your elbow.
2. "Section 230 says that if you remove such a post, you are not liable." - False. This depends on whether Congress finds "Nazi cannibalistic pedophiles extolling the joy of defiling children before killing and eating them" to be offensive material. If they don't, no protection. Further, Section 230 doesn't explicitly say anything about Nazis, Cannibals, or Pedophiles aside from deferring to existing law. Lastly, not saying anything about Nazis, Cannibals, or Pedophiles as free speech or not, it similarly doesn't speak to mundane speech. That is, if you post "Don't feed my child shellfish. He's allergic and it will kill him." to Facebook and Congress doesn't like that, they'll defend Facebook for taking it down... or they're free to hang Facebook out to dry.
3. "That is what ending Section 230 would mean." - Dementia-addled Engineer, I served with FUD and trolls on the internet. I knew FUD and trolling before S230 passed. FUD and trolling were familiar to everyone. You, shit-for-brains, are the FUD generating troll you claim to need laws to prevent.
"this depends on whether Congress finds “Nazi cannibalistic pedophiles extolling the joy of defiling children before killing and eating them” to be offensive material. "
Yes and that is the problem. The government gets to decide what is offensive and you applaud that.
The government gets to decide what is offensive and you applaud that.
Again, your dishonesty is clear is as clear as a gun control advocates distortion of 'a well regulated militia'.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Not "No government shall make a law...", not "No state shall make a law...", "Not no court shall rule..." The idea that the government can't regulate against clear and plain threats, fraud, and defamation is an idea so dishonest and stupid that only an retarded nihilist lying to themselves about being some sort of pseudo-intellectual atheist, convinced of their own inherent superiority would make it. Otherwise the text is not just clear, it goes on to say "and to petition the government for redress of grievances." Even a tacit familiarity with the founding of the country, the relationship between the East India Company and the Crown reveals what an obviously mendacious and craven idiot you are.
You aren't a defender of any freedom, someone the Founding Fathers envisioned living up to providing the liberties owed. You're retarded dupe and a sub-par liar defending Congress' laws explicitly violating your amendment because you're too morally and intellectually weak to recognize the lie and/or admit that you've, not just been duped, but are complicit.
Thanks Old Engineer for some good old-fashioned "horse sense"!
Too many "conservatives" do NOT want to bother to conserve "free speech" if shit gets in the way of pussy-grabbing the "woke" libs!!!
Yeah, you're right. Actual defenders of free speech are pretty rare, at least those willing to go public are rare. Hopefully, more of them will be willing to risk it.
The Founders pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. We should at least be willing to risk being skewered on social media.
Actual defenders of free speech are pretty rare, at least those willing to go public are rare. Hopefully, more of them will be willing to risk it.
So you can defend Congress' approval of what they can and can't themselves say, facilitate others saying, or not?
You aren't a defender of freedom. It's plain in the title of the law you hold dear:
"Protection For 'Good Samaritan' Blocking and Screening of Offensive Material"
You value Congressional protection for the blocking and screening of material Congress finds offensive. Plain as day. And you'll lie and deceive and obfuscate and distort the law rather than admit it and/or simply rely on the 1A... like everyone from 1996 back to the Founding Fathers actually did.
"You value Congressional protection for the blocking and screening of material Congress finds offensive."
Should the web site owner, or should the web site owner not, be allowed to chose to block murder-for-hire solicitations? As things are working right now, typically does a web site owner (or employees thereof) do this blocking, or does a Congress-critter sit there by the keyboard doing it? And WHO (in the event of murder-for-hire solicitations going unblocked) should perhaps be punished, the web site owner or the murder solicitor?
Can you think and speak clearly without ideological idiocy?
If you WERE to try to write plainly and clearly, is the below what you would write?
Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from FacePooo, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to severely constrict these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!
So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (inclusive of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And then we can FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!
“Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, we can REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts? Sure, why not? If we broke it, we can always apply ANOTHER fix!”
if websites were held liable for all content, they would become significantly more restrictive.
Very likely. But, they would likely become more restrictive in a more neutral manner. Their potential liability would be much more decentralized and, therefore, less deferential to the wishes of those in power.
"Don't touch politics" is a more restrictive rule than "Don't allow our political enemies to speak, but give us free rein." I'm more comfortable the former than the latter, even if it's my side that gets free speech. But, it's precisely the latter that the Democrats were threatening the social media giants to impose. The Republican threat, such as it was, was to get rid of Section 230 to push them into the former.
What bullshit.
Zuckie is a big a fascist liar as any democrat or republican.
Robby -
Get away from The Hill before you become infected:
The Hill
@thehill
"Summer COVID surge shows we may have to return to 2020 pandemic measures" (@TheHillOpinion)
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1829153541270708536
Over my refrigerator truck full of dead bodies.
Venture capitalist Eric Weinstein
You know what I just learned? Eric Weinstein is a "venture capitalist".
And most likely a kiddie diddler.
Is he related to Harvey Weinstein?
Eric works for Peter Thiel. Not a kid diddler, he was actually molested or something happened as a kid - had podcast about Epstein discussing his one meeting with the guy. He is Harvard trained mathematician, who has a lot to say against Harvard.
His bother is not Harvey, but Bret. Bret was the liberal biology professor who was attacked by Evergreen college students for thinking that it was racist to force white students from being barred from school for a day, also was fighting the good fight over the covid lab leak (against Fauci).
Both are definitely weirdos but in a highly educated independent worldview kind of way.
That's some serious victim-blaming. Zuckerberg's critics like to pretend that standing up to the federal government would have been an easy choice; obviously, it wasn't.
*Elon Musk has entered the chat*
But, to be fair:
*Pavel Durov has just left the chat in handcuffs*
Up next, Elon Musk.
Then Jeff Rense, Ron Paul, Tucker Carlson,
All those people who Biden threatened to air strike for legally owning weapons just assumed that Zuckerberg standing up to government censors when lives were on the line… and democracy was on the line… and when Hunter Biden’s sterling reputation were on the line… was going to be an easy choice.
Edit: All those *unvaccinated* people thought Zuck standing up to government pressure would be an easy choice.
Reason up until 2023:
SEXSHUN TWO THIRTEE!
Reason in late 2024:
President Joe Biden accused Facebook of "killing people" and implied that he would call for Congressional action to punish the company if it did not fall in line.
Suckaturd did what he was told because he likes gumment money from the CIA and Pentagram. He had no problem with it, he willingly went along with whatever the Biden administration told him.
Censorship and the bloody excuse called fact checking needs to go .
Remember, fact checking didn't exist until the truth was exposed.
Ao, and f*** you Bensen,Nessel and Whitmer.
Sorry Marky Mark, I have no sympathy for you.
Congress continually threatens media platforms with unfavorable legislation if they do not censor speech in accordance with their wishes. Our government subcontracts speech censorship to get around constitutional restrictions on them. Our government seems to represent itself at the expense of the people, a major corruption in intended purpose.
Congress makes the laws, by the way.
It seems to me the invisible hand of the market has made a correction once the manipulation of the government coercion was revealed and then relented.
This correction is happening with 230 in place and conservatives that want to get rid of it should take Robby’s words seriously: “It’s no surprise, then, that prominent Democrats are universally in support of removing Section 230 protections. They think social media companies do not moderate enough content, and that more ought to be done to curb so-called hate speech and misinformation. They correctly surmise that one way to encourage more heavy-handed moderation would be to eliminate Section 230, thus stripping social media sites of their protection from frivolous lawsuits.“
Oh weird, now that Meta clearly isn't the multi-billion dollar rocket ship it was advertised as and Facebook is beginning to crack, suddenly Zuck is apologetic about his whole adoption of the Biden/Woke Agenda?
What's next InBev? Disney? Harley Davidson? Tractor Supply? Lowe's? Various gaming companies associated with SBI?
The retard ballet you morons keep putting on for each other would be hilarious if it weren't so nausea inducing.
More like Mark Cuckerberg, amirite?
Zuckercuck?
FaceBook is not trust worthy?
The regime in power at the moment engages in propaganda, either directly or by suppression of information?
I don't know what to think anymore. Fortunately, I still have my magic eight ball, and my bullshit button.
“Zuckerberg’s critics like to pretend that standing up to the federal government would have been an easy choice; obviously, it wasn’t.”
Well, there you have it, folks! The problem with today’s society is that NOBODY is willing to stand up to the powerful government. People casually vote for their party no matter how bad the candidates and their platforms and performance in office is. It never seems to occur to people that refusing to stick your neck out today only staves off the axe for a little while. People never seem to remember the dictum that we should all hang together now in opposing tyranny to avoid hanging separately later. A little courage from a powerful CEO of a megabillion dollar corporation with plenty of resources to fight government legally would have been welcome, but I admit it's probably too much to ask.
"...Well, there you have it, folks! The problem with today’s society is that NOBODY is willing to stand up to the powerful government..."
Even those with "fuck you" money; Zuckerberg wants MORE, if the government provides it.
As I have written elsewhere, no one should have any sympathy for Mr. Zuckerberg. His letter is far too little, and way too late, especially coming from someone who in 2020 helped elect Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris by giving $450 million (known as Zuckerbucks) to facilitate mail-in voting and other election administration functions in various jurisdictions whose voters were (mostly) likely to vote for Democratic candidates. Had he practiced "old school" journalism, he could have pushed the Burisma and laptop stories while noting that FBI had, without disclosing any evidence, warned some people that these were part of Russian disinformation campaigns.
^+1. Or more. Zuckerberg is a late convert to anything like honesty.
You can always count on Reason writers to give lefties a pass on everything.
People that watch CNN have an IQ slightly less than my dick.
Really? That small?
Zuckerberg made billions as result of some clever tech innovation and marketing; standing O, no gripes.
So regardless of government sanctions, upon pressure, he could told them to stuff it up their asses, and still have walked away with billions if he had told the truth THEN!
His SF residence is within the range of a 61mm WWII mortar from here; If I had one, I'd send a very competent range finder up there to give me coordinates, and I'd drop one right there. RIGHT NOW!
Sure you would, Scato.
The author isn't wrong... but still ... f#$k Mark Zuckerberg. I dropped facebook when they started censoring my private messages. I will never use a Meta App again
"If Zuckerberg's letter is a potent weapon for Republicans, perhaps the Biden administration deserves some blame for equipping them with it. Incessantly pestering social media companies—in a manner that raises fundamental First Amendment questions—was a choice, and a bad one. It's telling that CNN has little to say about this and would rather complain that Zuckerberg, at long last, has had enough."
Well, yes.
The story is always "Republicans pounce ...", not "Democrats do something horrific".