Kamala Harris Was the Real Winner of Last Night's Debate
Heaven help us.

Look, nobody wants to see Vice President Kamala Harris as president. She's a cop in a past life, a flop as vice president, and as phony as they come, with enough political baggage to fill a few Acela trains. Her presidential campaign four years ago was an unmitigated dud, parlayed into the vice presidency only by the unique demands of 2020. But after last night's debate between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump, Harris' chances of soon holding top office—or at least getting the opportunity to battle Trump for it—skyrocketed.
To say that the debate was disastrous for Biden is accurate, but somehow too weak. It's hard to describe, for those who weren't watching, just how bad Biden looked, sounded, and came across, or just how resoundingly Trump won the night.
During the 2020 presidential debates, Biden's strength was conveying compassion to Trump's callousness, and being the adult in the room to Trump's chaos agent. Last night, we saw none of that. Trump showed an uncharacteristic amount of message discipline, sticking to less radical (for him, at least) positions and largely avoiding the kind of off-the-cuff bravado, extremism, or crudeness that can turn ordinary voters off.
Oh, sure, just about every other sentence out of Trump's mouth was misinformation at best. But he said it with gusto and a convincing show of truthiness—a performance that conveyed knowledge mixed with empathy and outrage on behalf of the people, so long as you don't follow politics or policy closely (which most Americans don't).
Biden, in comparison, appeared dazed and frequently incoherent, mixed with episodes where he came off peevish like someone's grandpa when they see kids wearing baggy pants. Even when Biden knew what he was talking about, he came across weirdly halting, an unconvincing portrayal of accuracy or honesty.
Some Democratic pundits (and Harris) will tell you that doesn't matter—that we should pay attention to the content of the two candidates' messages, not the way in which they were delivered. I don't think that's quite right (there is substance in style) but it would be nice if substance carried more weight. Humans thrive on vibes, though, and all the shoulds in the world can't change that, nor will scolding people about what they should pay attention to win them over.
Besides, the substance of Biden's message was often inscrutable (and on issues like immigration and tariffs, he failed to offer a position radically different than that taken by Trump).
Do the American people want a confident liar or an earnest inchoate? Those were the choices on display.
The irony here is that Democrats and Biden folks wanted this early debate. The idea was that it would both boost Biden's poll numbers when swing voters once again saw him face-to-face with Trump and further cement the idea of Biden as the party's no-backing-out choice. Now the former appears a fever dream, and even the latter is not so sure.
Before last night, the idea that Biden would back down seemed nonexistent. Now, it seems like the only chance they have (even if still rather unlikely). The Biden we saw last night isn't going to win over anyone for whom there's any sort of decision to be made.
Post-debate, in public and in private, even many Democrats couldn't deny how poorly it had gone for Biden, and how absolutely screwed the party is if he's their 2024 presidential candidate. ("If it gets Biden not to run, then it was very good," a former Obama campaign aide reportedly told Semafor.)
But if not Biden, who? Some people have fantasies about running California Gov. Gavin Newsom, but the logical and likely baton-passing would be to the woman currently serving as vice president.
Harris has name recognition and all the surface-level attributes Democrats want. And her slippery-but-vibrant style might actually hold up well against Trump in debates. It's hard to pin down what Harris believes beyond what will be politically advantageous in the moment. But at least Harris can deliver the politically advantageous lines with a modicum of confidence, some coherence, and believability.
She has her own style problems—word salads, inappropriately timed laughter, a certain cringe factor when she tries to appear relatable—but they pale in comparison to the style apocalypse we saw from Biden last night.
On substance, it's hard to know what we would get from a Harris campaign or presidency. Again and again, she's proven herself willing to blow with the political winds. "Harris has no political core, having swung without rhyme or reason between the persona of a tough centrist prosecutor and that of a leftist agitator raring to take on the white supremacist power structure," as Yascha Mounk at Persuasion writes.
As San Francisco district attorney, she campaigned on criminal justice reform promises that were often walked back once she was in office, where she weakened the city's diversion program for drug offenders, amped up enforcement of laws against things like prostitution, panhandling, and misdemeanor gun offenses, and famously cracked down on the parents of kids who were absent from school. Back in 2017, she co-sponsored a Medicare for All plan and endorsed Medicare for All at the start of her 2020 presidential campaign, only to backtrack on this support later in her campaign.
One thing she has proved consistent on is panic about sex work. In San Francisco, she opposed decriminalization efforts, cracked down on prostitution at massage businesses, and endorsed tougher penalties for people convicted of soliciting prostitution. As California Attorney General, she twice went after Backpage, the classified ad site popular with sex workers. In more recent years, she's nominally come out for prostitution decriminalization but clarified that she actually supports the Nordic model, which wants tougher penalties for paying for sex.
With a Harris presidency, we could be looking at a full extension of Biden administration policies. I don't think we could hope for anything better, but there are a few ways in which it could get worse. For starters, Harris is somewhat more likely than Biden to embrace the party's less moderate factions, whether that's the extremely online and identity-politics-obsessed wing or the we-should-do-light-socialism side.
Both Biden and Harris have tough-on-crime pasts that can crop up again when popular sentiment calls for it. But Harris' prosecutor past is less past, and closer to the current surface. And she might feel compelled to embrace it more in an attempt to counter stereotypes about women and/or Californians.
Biden, for all his flaws, doesn't seem to have a lot left to prove. He has, on occasion, been willing to do things that are right but politically unpopular, such as withdrawing from Afghanistan. We don't know much about Harris' foreign policy inclinations, but we do know how she changes stances to fit whatever mood is prevailing. So, I find it hard to believe she would take a similarly unpopular stance even if she felt in her heart it was the right thing to do.
Whether Harris could beat Trump is also rather iffy. She's proven pretty unpopular among independents and moderates, and Republicans seem to have had some success portraying her as more radical than she actually is. Plus, she's a woman of color, when both parts of that equation can, alas, still alienate some sectors of the electorate or set up different standards of judgment. So Harris' appeal among swing voters may be limited by factors both within and beyond her control.
It may not come to that. Biden has 99 percent Democratic delegate votes in the bag. Basically, the only chance the party has of running Harris or anyone else is if Biden voluntarily steps down, and Biden seems, for whatever reason, determined to see this through.
The next presidential debate happens in September, after both parties will have formally named their candidates. If Biden bombs again then, it's too late for Democrats to change course. It probably is already too late. But for this brief sliver of time, all eyes are on Harris, for better or for worse.
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The first woman of color president to be assassinated.
It's time to get back on your meds.
You should try to find some, shitstain.
You know who else wants sleepy joe to swing along with bibi.
Joooooossssss?
Jooooooooooooooooooo.....
Biden did not do the unpopular thing and withdrew from Afghanistan.
He broke the treaty Trump made with the Taliban for a phased U S withdrawal using the secure airbase at Bagram.
This so enraged the Taliban that they immediately attacked Kabul and took it with ease.
While 13 servicemen/women died in the botched rout from the civilian Kabul airport
That is 100% all on Biden
If it ends up being Harris vs Trump I'll register to vote and vote for Trump. That woman is dangerous.
What happened to imagining what Trump will do if reelected? Admitting your prior comments were bullshit?
Hey, he's playing the game you want him to play, vote for the lesser of two evils. Biden vs Trump for some people isn't worth getting involved. Harris vs Trump, not that's a whole new ball game. That's worse than Clinton vs Trump. At least you could hope the stress of the office would have killed Hillary within a few months. Harris is way too young for that.
pretty much yes
My mother and father were life long Democrats. Hell, my younger sister and brother are school teachers. I don't know about my sister but the rest of them stopped voting Democrat when the Dems gave us Hillary for President. They held their noses and voted for Trump. They were terrified that Hillary could win.
So yeah, I get the reasoning. There's always a level of evil that will get us off our asses. Hillary and Harris are that kind of evil. To paraphrase Churchil, if Hillary were running for President against Hitler I would find nice things to say about Hitler.
Lol. Thanks Mike. The usual false boaf sides as all your energy is being anti trump. But Joe is such a disaster you both pretend you don't constantly simp for him. Sarc even gets mad when people say Fuck Joe Biden. But pretending you are neutral is hilarious.
Nothing good comes out of Arizona.
The problem with Trump isn't just that he lies about everything and has bad policies on everything. It is that he isn't connected to reality. That is a far bigger danger than Biden or Harris.
Biden hosting trans people in the WH, doesn't know what a woman is, wanders aimlessly, makes up convos with world leaders who are notably dead...
ya, Trump is the one not connected to reality
Trans people are citizens as well and deserving of basic rights. His hosting them at the White House is no measure of his connection to reality.
The rest of the stuff definitely shows his mind has let go of the wheel.
What basic rights are they missing? In fact they are demanding excess rights like playing on the opposite sports teams, suing to have women fondle their balls for Brazilian waxes, suing doctors for not giving them pap smears, etc. They want government to force everyone else to play pretend.
He used Biden hosting trans people at the white house as proof of biden not being connected to reality. I disagree with the trans noisy extremists wanting special rights just as I don't want Christians to have special rights. But hosting them at the white house is not an indication of loosing his grip any more than hosting a winning football team at the white house. It's just a PR stunt.
I can see the argument that because Dems are true believers in trans ideology, hosting them specifically because of their transness is playing in to their self delusions and thus not connected to reality.
I’m sure an athiest would argue the same thing about any other religious group.
If former presidents had never hosted any groups at the White House for photo ops to improve their polling numbers then you might have a point. But bringing in groups to make them look good has a long tradition.
I've never griped about any of them before so it would be hypocritical of me to gripe about one now.
I will bet if I look I will find several religious groups that were welcomed to the White House for photo ops in the past.
"The problem with Trump isn’t just that he lies about everything and has bad policies on everything. It is that he isn’t connected to reality."
You misspelled "Biden."
Charlie hall is a parody of dumbass 20 somethings who get all their knowledge of the world from the daily show.
To be fair he may just be an idiot. And since he frequents a 'libertarian'(ish) website - not even a useful one.
I just hate cops, and she's worse than most cops.
Do you think current and former police will vote for the guy that sicced a mob on Capital Police who were beaten with flagpoles, fire extinguishers, and their own shields? Or vote for a cop-friendly, former prosecutor?
Republican politicians unquestioningly back the blue while Democrat politicians attempt to hold them accountable. Police tend to vote accordingly.
Accountability like an award for shooting an unarmed protestor.
Sarc hates cops…….unless they murder a Tru o supporter in cold blood.
Is the grey spot invoking Saint Babbitt, who shall forever be remembered in the Church of Trump?
Stop pretending you mute people.
It was so long ago he forgot to fake mute me. Just this morning.
I mean you kind of proved the point. Even defending it as a good blind shoot lol.
Democrat politicians do no such thing. In fact, Democrat politicians run all of the big cities where we’ve seen these “out of control cops” (some of them for 50+ years).
At best they pay it some lip service when tensions get too high.
"Do you think current and former police will vote for the guy that sicced a mob on Capital Police who were beaten with flagpoles, fire extinguishers..."
Why do you keep repeating lies, doooooooood?
FALAMANDER, sphincter.
Where in his speech did he do so? How did it start before his speech even ended? Why did he offer up the national guard?
Rachel Maddow has really fucked with your heads.
You mean the "cop-friendly prosecutor" who helped solicit bail for violent criminals?
https://abcnews4.com/amp/news/nation-world/kamala-harris-backed-bail-fund-helped-incarcerated-man-now-charged-with-murder-go-free
It depends on who offers them more privileges. Trump has said he wants to give them total immunity... even Harris hasn't done that.
So you agree with dem policies then. Lol. No other criticism aside from her being a former DA.
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
FOAD, asshole.
you
are
such
a
fucking
idiot
FALAMANDER, sphincter.
I find it hilarious that the only people who agree or are congenial with sarc are the Act Blue accounts.
That's your delusion showing. You figure anyone else who disagree with you is an act blue account. We could argue that you are posting only what Donald Trump pays you to post with the same lack of evidence.
Every politician lies about everything. Why should Trump be different?
That's a least an honest defense.
Trump is very guilty of exaggeration. To levels that are beyond extreme. But those exaggerations are so obvious you can't count them as lies. It's like a pizza place claiming to have the best pizza in the world. When did they hold a competition for that? Never. Thus it's technically a lie, but if you actually believe they have the best pizza in the world that shows you to be the fool. Anyone who honestly thinks Trumps exaggerations are reality needs to seek help.
Mike exagerrates Trump's exagerration. Lol.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Goddamn man.
And yet the bad stuff happened when Biden, and before that Obama, were in power. It's only since Trump the USA has had LESS wars. Trump wasn't using the intelligence services against his political opponents.
Like Biden will live 4 more years. A vote for Biden is a vote for Harris.
At the rate he is declining I think that is all but a foregone conclusion. He may be accidentally OD'd in pharmacological prep for his next debate - he is frail enough.
Pharmacology can only do so much. Lest night proved that Biden is past the point where they can use drugs to prop him up even for a short time. And taking all that shit will take its own toll on him.
that was my point
My guess is that he will "stumble" while going down the staircase in the White House.
A national tragedy to be sure.
Film at eleven.
Never ever. I'd never cast a ballot for either of them. Not with a gun to my head. Not if the fate of humanity depended on it. Fuck 'em and fuck the people who support 'em. They chose this bed. They can sleep in it. I'll march into the sea if that's what it takes so at least I can die with principles, because they sure as hell are going to die without them.
Stomping your feet and screaming at the sky is a type of principle. I guess.
You can put 10 libertarians in a room and get disagreement. So what youre basically saying you refuse to compromise or participate until everyone just follows your belief system. Society doesn’t work that way. Not even freedoms work that way as youre demanding everyone agree with you or you’re taking the ball and going home.
I bet you follow laws, pay taxes, and do other things you claim to be against. So are you really dying principled?
For example, most speed limits are based on 70 year safety data. I speed to the allowance i can get away with it. Just because I stop at that point, I would be unprincipled based on your belief system. I just do 90 through a school zone even when no kids are around.
So if someone is opposed to a law but follows the law out of the very reasonable fear of the retribution of the government for breaking it you think principles have been tossed out?
Breaking a law, even the smallest and most inconsequential, is enforced with the threat of death. Every law. Refuse to give in and eventually they will kill you for resisting arrest.
If you die for resisting a law over a principle, after the media gets done with your legacy your family will wish you had just died of auto erotic asphyxiation. Look at how most people view the Branch Davidians these days. They died for principles. The Jan 6th people were arrested for their principles. Their families are likely looking into legal name changes.
Speeding limits are bullshit. They are supposed to be based on braking distance. Cars have different braking distances based on design and quality of upkeep. If I have a fine quality German sportscar which I follow the maintenance schedule religiously and take it to certified mechanics I should be able to drive WAY faster than some guy in an old Ford Festiva who does his own brakes. But no. I would have to drive the same speed as that death trap. So why buy a nice car? May as well have my own cheep death trap and then 75 mph feels like a real thrill as I take my life into my own hands pushing the pedal to the floor.
Safety data be damned. We drove 55 mph for decades because some ecomentalist convinced Jimmy Carter that 55 mph was the optimal speed for best fuel efficiency. It took forever to get rid of that stupidity.
"...So if someone is opposed to a law but follows the law out of the very reasonable fear of the retribution of the government for breaking it you think principles have been tossed out?..."
I don't know what he meant to say there and I don't think he does, either.
Not my fault you can't diagram a sentance.
Way to not understand my comment Mike. He says he will die principled but invalidates his principles daily most likely.
Youre not very smart are you buddy.
By all means. Drive 90MPH through school zones, pass school buses stopped for children, why not do some donuts in the playground.
What the hell, running over a few little brats don't mean sheit anyway. Right?
It's all about me.
I can appreciate the argument. I think people should vote FOR a candidate because they like what they stand for, agree with the majority of their beliefs and think the candidate is the best for the job.
What Sarc is talking about is voting for the lesser of two evils. But then he really hates cops and Harris is the Queen of Cops. Between her and Hitler he'd be thinking hard about finding a few good things to say about Hitler.
False. Debunked talking point. He loves cops against certain people. Generally of a political persuasion. Just like you Mike.
He mocks Trump Supporters for their cannonizing of a someone killed at the Jan 6th event. That doesn't mean he likes the cops. Just that he mocks your pain.
......"Besides if you vote, you have no right to complain." George Carlin
Well, that statement has cause a shit ton of panty bunching for the usual suspects. They need you to be their political Satan. Now what will they do?
Defend the boaf sides Mike.
When Jesse gets a boner none of my posts are unskathed.
Ok, that made me puke a little in my mouth.
Stupid people ARE dangerous.
More dangerous than having the nuclear football in the hands of a dementia patient?
The real winner of the debate was not Heels Up Harris, it was RFK Jr
During the 2020 presidential debates, Biden's strength was conveying compassion to Trump's callousness, and being the adult in the room to Trump's chaos agent.
Nice retcon. I know you are going to be in full spin mode to desperately rehabilitate your image after endorsing the fuck in 2020, but Biden was never any of those things.
Biden came across as a grumpy old man in the 2020 debate. Now he comes across as grumpier and older.
Now he comes across as an Alzheimer's patient.
FTFY.
Yeah, but Trump came across as a dangerous lunatic. Biden 1, Trump 0
Seems you're in the minority as even pundits across the MSM are aghast at Joe's performance.
Maybe you were watching an old "What's My Line"
The consensus everywhere is the Democrats are in very big trouble.
I think he was referring to the 2020 debates.
Which is still silly because it was readily apparent even then that Biden had dementia and Trump just came off as oafish (nowhere near dangerous or a lunatic) and unable to shut his mouth long enough to let Joe ramble further.
I guess it depends on your own internal bias. I votes for Trump because he's an asshole who pisses people off, I have no illusions about his fitness for the office or his qualities as a human being.
In the 2020 debate (to clarify for JohnZ) Biden was working toward destroying his own electability by looking like an Alzheimers patient. However Trump acted like a rabid dog who couldn't follow the rules of the debate. He interrupted repeatedly and seemed as if he had no self control. He actually made Biden seem like the better candidate because of that. If he'd of done the same thing in 2020 that he did this time and let Biden ramble on I don't think he would have lost the election.
CE was talking about the 2020 debate. Sorry I didn't spend an hour detailing every element of my point so you might understand what everyone else seemed to have gotten without such assistance.
"Even when Biden knew what he was talking about"
I missed that part
Cry harder, ENB. Try doing this...you'll feelz better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UerhqPf3JBA
"Screaming woman at Trump inauguration (Original)"
That's a woman?
A good campaign song. /sarc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksiKwtleHaE
Don't be silly, Ms Brown, wishful thinking aside, there's virtually no way the Democratic Party will jump from the current frying pan into the dumpster fire that is Kamala Harris! She's a joke, and a bad one at that!
What about her experience on the international stage, handling the border crisis and using her diplomatic skills to prevent war in the Ukraine?
Shucks, I forgot about those!
She could handle Willie Brown's willy
It's Willie Brown's brown willy, if you're going to bother
I would thing that ENB would be happy that a whore cunt would be president
So you think the DNC is going to replace a black woman who has VP experience for a white dude.
I wish they would, the Libertairian candidate could win in that contest just because he's gay.
The Democrats like their minority representation. She checks boxes. Some old white dude, unless he's gay, doesn't check any boxes.
Democrats don’t really care about the boxes. That’s why they gave Joe top billing in the first place.
You're going to try and argue that Democrats aren't worried about all that DEI crap that they push?
Congrats bad Liz! Worst take on the debate!
Lol.
with enough political baggage to fill a few
Acela trains.yellow school bus.If Reason wants to keep playing this one-sided game of claiming Trump lied while outright ignoring all of the whoppers told by Biden then I would like to see what specific statements they mean. He was wrong on some things and had some massive exaggerations with extremely loose citations, but overall was in line with reality.
You won't get specifics unless they are themselves lies.
Specific lists have been posted, you just ignore them instead of refuting them.
– Trump claimed that during his presidency Iran was “broke” and therefore not funding terrorism. Do you agree with Trump that Iran was not funding terrorism 2016-2020? Answer with a straight yes or no.
– Trump said “everyone”, including “all” the legal authorities, wanted Roe repealed. Do you agree with Trump that Sonia Sotomayor and AOC wanted Roe repealed? Answer with a straight yes or no.
– Trump said the US border is “the most dangerous place in the world”. Do you agree with Trump that McAllen, El Paso, and San Diego are more dangerous than Haiti, Gaza, and Sudan? Answer with a straight yes or no.
From what I've seen, Justice Sotomayor relies less on legal authority, and more on her feelings of what the law should be.
You are absolutely correct.
But that's not the question at hand. Trump claimed "all" legal authorities supported overturning Roe and it's unquestionably clear that, regardless of reasons, she did not. Sevo asked for some examples of lies and I provided a list of stuff that's can't seriously be contested.
Of your threshold for lies is hyperbole or the misuse of all, then every debate ever has been pure lies.
Weird take. Comment on Joe's actual lies, not just exaggeration?
The Roe issue isn’t a case where he changed a “most” into an “all” for emphasis. He falsely claimed that a major contested issue for 50 years was not contested at all.
If it makes you happy:
Biden changed an endorsement by the Border Patrol of a particular bill he supported, into an endorsement of himself.
Biden falsely claimed Trump would eliminate Social Security.
Biden misrepresented the Charlottesville remarks by lying about the group of people Trump was referring to.
Biden contradicted himself on the cost of an insulin shot, so at least one lie there.
[Big one, IMO] Biden falsely claimed no soldiers had been killed overseas on his watch. Flat lie and horrible insult to the families involved. More generally, he intended to falsely represented himself as being less engaged in foreign military action than Trump.
Of course in some sense Biden’s whole performance was also a lie, pretending he’s on top of things when he’s totally at sea in reality. But that’s a different category.
Well, one of his uncles was eaten by a cannibal known as CornPop.
And those train rides across the key Scott Francis bridge were dangerous.
Well - if the legal authorities he was referring to was the SCOTUS - i guess he was right.
You see the problem of saying 'lie' when the response is an IF. You dont want to believe in absolute truth so how can you believe in absolute lies in a modal language.
"All" is a rhetorical tool used by every President. Clinton's infamous "experts now agree" statement is an example. It shows you are on the right side of the issue and everyone who disagrees is a crank who should be dismissed. You know this, though. People don't live in a black and white world where every question has a yes or no response. You also know this. To pretend something else while trying to make a point due to a raging bias is disingenuous.
10000s of kids on ventilators!! COVID!
Answer this meandering loaded question with a one of these curated choices that I've laid out for you.
Fuck off, Troll. I hope an angry dad catches you.
“Trump claimed that during his presidency Iran was “broke” and therefore not funding terrorism. Do you agree with Trump that Iran was not funding terrorism 2016-2020? Answer with a straight yes or no.”
Hmm. Looks like an opinion, TDS-addled shitpile.
“– Trump said “everyone”, including “all” the legal authorities, wanted Roe repealed. Do you agree with Trump that Sonia Sotomayor and AOC wanted Roe repealed? Answer with a straight yes or no.”
Hyperbole, TDS-addled pile of shit.
“– Trump said the US border is “the most dangerous place in the world”. Do you agree with Trump that McAllen, El Paso, and San Diego are more dangerous than Haiti, Gaza, and Sudan? Answer with a straight yes or no.”
More hyperbole from the steaming pile of TDS-addled shit.
FOAD, asshole.
Trump exaggerated, as he frequently does, about Iran's finances. Remember to take Trump seriously, not literally.
Legal scholars would all tell you Roe was bull shit, and an embarrassment on the judicial record. Tendentious jurists might not agree.
"Most dangerous place" depends on how small an area is meant. It's not more dangerous than any part of Gaza right now, but close enough proximity to the southern USA border is probably more dangerous than the average same area in Haiti or Somalia. But again, seriously, not literally.
IOWs, the TDS-addled pile of shit took hyperbole and exaggerated it to "lying". A raging case of TDS will have that effect.
They learnt it by watching the press and 'fact-checking' organizations.
” close enough proximity to the southern USA border is probably more dangerous”
Nope. I live in Hidalgo County, and sometimes stand right on the riverbank. Alongside families with kids there to sight see, picnic, fish, birdwatch, etc. I hope you haven’t been taken in by the breathless bedwetting of people like Jesse, Nardz, and Trump himself. Believe numbers instead, like the murder rate:
El Paso, TX 2.76 per 100,000.
Laredo, TX 3.84 per 100,000.
McAllen, TX 3.00 per 100,000.
For comparison:
St Louis, MO 66.07 per 100,000.
Des Moines, IA 12.89 per 100,000.
So, Texas is safer than Democrat led cities. The illegals that killed and raped American citizens need to be executed publicly.
So youre upset at hyperbole while Joe told all of these actual lies... not even exaggerated ones...
https://thefederalist.com/2024/06/28/here-are-the-20-biggest-whoppers-biden-told-during-his-debate-with-trump/
Not that I didn't expect that from you.
Wait that is your legal authorities? AOC? Sonia who got the job as a DEI hire. She only goes for the feels, not the law.
Which is the problem for all the Democrat Supreme Court Justices. They don't have opinions that are in law. They have feels.
Look at today's dissent by Sonia. She is upset because government power was curbed.
As for the rest - broke varies from definition. If you say -0 dollars, than no. If you say a pariah that was suffer economy until Biden lifted sanctions and paying 200 billion dollars, than yes
Sure, I'll say it's in the top 5 recent for the US border.
Now you answer - 0 or 9% inflation when took office. Which is it Biden? How about 500 million jobs? How about his son in Iraq?
19 economy 'experts' support him, which left out that they were his donors.
Biden lied. Trump stretched/exaggerated the truth - agreed. It's also true that Roe vs Wade was always a horrible ruling. Everyone that follows law and rationale agree about it. If you want abortion, and you don't want it for the states to decided, have Congress make it a law. They didn't.
I appreciate your reasonable and civil attempt to defend Trump's "exaggerations".
Roe: I agree totally that Roe was poorly reasoned, and that many pro-choice legal scholars agreed. However, thinking it poorly reasoned is not the same as wanting it reversed. Trump's exact words were:
"everybody wanted to get it back to the states, everybody, without exception."
He didn't say poorly reasoned. He said everybody wanted it returned to the states, without exception.
Using "without exception" when 40-60% of the population are exceptions is lying, not exaggerating. Either there were exceptions or there weren't, and he lied.
-----
Biden has lied in the past about his son dying in Iraq. In the debate all he said was that his son served in Iraq
500 million jobs is obviously a lie, given the population is under 400 million. He seems to have a problem with million/billion/trillion.
Inflation: meh. Sure, he just pulled a number out of his ass which is lying. But inflation is one of those things where people arguing about tend to use private definitions with twenty asterisks and claim it's the "real" unadulterated number.
Biden has a lied in the past is a bit of an understatement. Just listed 20 from last night. He has a long history of it.
Guess you lie as much as Trump. Weird.
And what a hilarious attempt at excuse making on inflation. 9% a bit different than 1.4%
But you do you buddy.
YES.
Young Chinese males of military age, cartels, gangs, rapists, murderers and cop killers. Known terrorists, mentally ill and every sort of felon.
Note here:
"...Oh, sure, just about every other sentence out of Trump's mouth was misinformation at best..."
See the cites and links? Nope, just bullshit from a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
People tire of giving examples just to be called lying sacks of TDS addled shitbags whores instead of getting honest answers. Why bother with the work when you just name call in response.
You mean other than claiming he really won the 2020 election and that Biden got in because of "fraud?"
If you don't think that all by itself was a "whopper" then you're unlikely to be convinced by anything else regardless of whether it was backed with evidence.
Tell us what Clinton said after losing to Trump, asshole dooooood.
So Clinton and Trump are both liars.
I mean the democrats kind of admitted to it in Time. All those illegal ballots (courts have now overturned 3 elections on the same grounds), courts ruled on illegal election changes in multiple states, 3rd party money in elections, tens of thousands of ballots sent to wrong addresses...
But sure. Joe is the most popular president candidate ever. He overcame the vote increases Trump got all in late night and even later in the week vote counts often without poll watchers who were kicked out.
Trump claimed that tariffs don't increase the price of goods, and that tariffs are paid by China. Both claims are false.
Same way Biden "lied" that "greedy corporations" will pay for his proposed raise in tax rates. They both equivocate constantly. Then again so do all politicians from all parties. So your trying to take Trump's hyperbole as unusual falls flat.
So Trump and Biden are both liars.
Which is the entire point. The fact checking of one and not the other. And yes, they are both liars.
I love how "exaggeration" is no longer a lie for Trump Supporters. Well, when Trump does it at least. If Biden exaggerated I'm sure that would be called a lie.
The "Trump lied" narrative is the one they were given though.
"Kamala Harris Was the Real Winner of Last Night's Debate."
...and if you liked Biden, then you absolutely love Harris.
"Biden seems, for whatever reason, determined to see this through."
I'm sure he's been promised all the ice cream he wants if he's a good little boy.
Not to mention three shower passes - - - - - - - -
He is surrounded by people telling him he won the debate hands down and is doing great in the polls. He doesn't know anything else as he is only sentient 6hrs a day, his own WH told us that. Why wouldn't he think he should continue when his aides only present him in front of cheering crowds and shield him from seeing any criticism
No D was a winner. Just look at the 'odds of winning Prez' timeline. Where people are betting their own money on the outcome. Overnight, the odds of Biden winning went from 35.7% to 19.2%. That does not mean that Trump is the big winner. He rose from 51.7% to 54.8%
It superficially looks like non-Biden D's were also 'winners':
Newsom from 3.5% to 10.5%
Harris from 1.5% to 4.5%
Obama from 3% to 4%
But that ain't really true. Because what that odds line indicates is merely that there is a huge panic in the D's. IF the D's actually start doing something about that panic - getting rid of Biden as the nominee - then everyone associated with Biden inside the White House is gonna get tarred. Harris and her 'oh Biden is really a firecracker behind closer doors' is, in the real world, a cover up.
The question about Biden is not really 'did he crap his pants at the debate?'. It's 'who is the real President right now'. That's a 25th amendment issue. We put that in the constitution precisely so that Edith Wilson could not be the real Prez or so that FDR's handlers couldn't disguise his condition to the public. Biden's inner circle has clearly been covering up his decline. And likely, more broadly, the D establishment. Now it is exposed.
Just looking at the specifics of the 25th amendment:
Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.
That’s not going to happen.
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
That’s very very unlikely to happen. The majority of the Cabinet has been covering Biden’s condition up. They aren’t going to turn around on a dime.
The issue right now is that ELECTED D’s are panicking. Not the Cabinet. They screwed the pooch and nominated a Prez whose coattails are a giant anchor. The end game for a party that has refused to allow for any generational transfer of power and is now stuck with the Feinsteins, Bidens, Pelosis, etc going senile. It’s an interesting debate that will unfold here. But no part of the D establishment is gonna ‘win’.
Ronald Regan was fully in the grip of dementia by his second term in office. *That* was a coverup. Harris speaking well of her boss is pretty much her job.
The problem with all of these "he's too old" jabs is that a very large segment of the voter base were born before 1964 and they take that kinda stuff personally. So while Trump and Biden's age-related quirks are worrisome for the younger voters, the older voters relate.
Ronnie was President in 1994? Weird, I don't remember that at all.
Doooooood is missing all but one brain-cell, and is a TDS-addled pile of shit besides.
Kamala Harris is violating an oath of office when she lies about whether the Prez is of sound mind. Her loyalty is not personally to the Prez. It is to the office and to the Constitution.
I was born before 64. Not much but still. Same age as Obama. Anyone who votes for Biden after watching last night pretty obviously doesn’t give a rat’s ass about what a Prez actually does. Nor do they give a rats ass about whose finger is on nuclear weapons. I didn’t vote for Biden in 20 and never voted for Trump – and would never vote for either in 24. I have thought Biden’s staff/appointees (esp foreign policy) are corrupt and incompetent for his entire term – and I sure don’t want them completely unaccountable for anything to anyone except Biden.
This is not about age sensitivities or senior moments. This is about whether vegetables are capable of being President and whether we still have checks and balances. It won’t surprise me that D’s may make the voices of concern – and then won’t do anything. D’s don’t hold D’s accountable and R’s don’t hold R’s accountable. It’s a serious flaw in our system and with today’s voters.
Before this debate, my main concern was about whether we still had enough checks and balances to prevent Trump from pulling another Jan6 if he gets elected. That was not resolved. Now there’s just ANOTHER fucking checks and balances problem.
I’ve seen clips of Reagan from his second term. He was energetic and fresh. He could be quick-witted and clever in unscripted moments, like when he was in Berlin and a balloon made a loud pop sound and he paused in his speech to say “You missed me.”
Biden can’t give straightforward and cogent answers to moderated questions.
I was alive for his second term, and notably history says Ronnie wasn't diagnosed with dementia until Clinton's 1st term in office.
It's possible he had some decline before then, probable even, but notably Ronnie was more cogent in the years before his diagnosis than Biden was yesterday. That says that Biden either is well into his dementia diagnosis, or they simply refuse to take him to a doctor at all.
Since the second option is basically impossible, the alternative version is everyone in his inner circle knows this is the case and are actively lying about it. The MD can't say, because that would be an instant HIPPA violation and loss of license.
Idiotic take, dooood. Those of us who were born pre '64 are much more aware of the effects of age on cognitive ability than pre pubescent dooods like you still waiting for their nuts to drop.
There was a president who had a stroke and was all but a vegetable but his wife played "messenger" between the president and the cabinet. In truth she was the president. I forget which one he was.
There was a president who had a stroke and was all but a vegetable but his wife played “messenger” between the president and the cabinet. In truth she was the president. I forget which one he was.
Woodrow Wilson.
Thank you. I thought I might be him but since I consider him one of the worst presidents ever I assumed I was just piling on.
It is not only dementia that Biden suffers from but as a physician the other day stated he may very well have Parkinsons as well. Hence the freezing up.
The really, really fun part of this amendment is in section four:
"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide . . . "
So congress could pass a law providing that the GOP is the body to determine to "transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office"
How about that?
Still need the VP though.
Et tu, Brute? I could easily see enough of the Cabinet revolting and saying, "Yeah, this is the shit we've had to deal with for years, I've really been running the show and now want to take credit."
And the 25th wasn't in effect yet with FDR, was it? Though you'd think they'd've adopted it in reaction to Wilson.
It was passed in 1965. Directly in response to JFK's assassination, LBJ's history of heart attacks (and before that DDE), and no VP during 1964.
But that is a very different kind of disability than dementia or decline because of age. It's also a different kind of 'disability' than a Jan6 or other impeachable behavior. So now we have TWO Prez candidates for whom the 25th Amendment process may not really be effective.
In 65 were people living long enough to get dementia? I honestly don't know and am curious. Perhaps they didn't include it because the condition was so rare because lifespans weren't long enough for it to be showing up. But I may be wrong.
The Dems need to thread the needle: say Biden is competent to serve out his term, but his advancing age precludes him from serving the next one. The ideal time to do this is after the election (so Harris isn't the incumbent) and before the Electoral College votes. The Biden Electors will be freed to vote for whomever they chose before the inauguration. If they thought Newsom or Whitmer or Buttigieg or someone else could actually beat Trump, one of them would already be the nominee.
That's interesting, but only if Biden wins. If he loses and the Biden electors switch to anyone else, most people won't care or even know about it, but those who do care will be all like, WTF? You had this in your pocket and didn't even hint about it to us? I'm never trusting a Democrat with my vote for president again!
If Biden wins, this scenario makes sense only if the party makes known before election day that they plan to switch to X other candidate. Meaning Biden's still the nominee but the voters would know the real candidate, who they like better by then than Biden.
if Biden by some perverse fluke wins without this plan's being generally known, his voters will all be like, WTF? You had this in your pocket and didn't even hint about it to us? I'm never trusting a Democrat with my vote for president again! Could even lead to violent revolution — which would be behavior I'd expect out of people who'd still vote for Biden at this stage.
The D’s need to convince Biden to free up his delegates for the D convention in order to create an ‘open convention’. Whether that will happen – or whether they will even try – or whether Biden will agree with that – is a question. More along the lines of LBJ taking his name out of nomination in 1968.
But the D’s can have no ‘post-election’ plan that might involve the 25th. Biden has no chance of election. And the D fear is that Biden will drag them all down with him – when right now D’s generically have the edge re Congress.
Interestingly - the time frame for D's to make this happen is not the August Convention. The R's in Ohio have forced the time to early August or the D nominee won't appear on the Ohio ballot. I'm pretty sure this is unconstitutional but that doesn't really matter. The REAL nomination will take place on a Zoom call among delegates in about one month. NOT at the Convention.
About 4 weeks ago, Ohio had a special session and passed a law to extend the deadline for this election cycle. So the deadline is now 65 days before the election, giving them time to have their August convention. Don't know if they're going to have the zoom call anyway.
Don't know why you think the early deadline is unconstitutional. Also don't know why you portray this as the Rs forcing the time to be earlier; the earlier deadline had been in place for at least a decade. Not really Ohio's fault at this point if the Ds hold their convention too late.
"...He has, on occasion, been willing to do things that are right but politically unpopular, such as withdrawing from Afghanistan..."
That had been negotiated by Trump, but it took Joe to fuck it up royally, you TDS-addled pile of shit.
Since when was it politically unpopular, also? Maybe if you're sitting in the Pentagon, or talking to defense contractors. I think everyone was ready for the troops to come home; the main reason it was politically panned was because it was so botched it was reminiscent of the fall of Saigon.
Yeah, hard to ignore that bit. At the same time, once Obama took over the 'war' suddenly the daily troop deaths in Afghanistan disappeared from the news and suddenly drone strikes in the region were an unmitigated good.
Pretty sure Obama got elected on a 'bring back the troops' platform, and we saw how well that worked out.
“…it was reminiscent of the fall of Saigon.”
Worse imo; we didn’t leave terrorists in Vietnam with state-of-the-art weapons.
Every aspect of the Doha agreement was reneged on by the taliban. We should have treated it as null and void.
I’m not against leaving Afghanistan, but it had to be done with some brainpower. As it was executed, it was an unmitigated catastrophe. The libertarian line that it was just “politically unpopular” is absurd.
Absolutely, totally f***up. But hey, leaving behind $85 billion in military hardware is a small price to pay, right?
Then there's the deaths of 13 Americans. Or were they eaten by cannibals?
Almost forgot....the hundred billion+ sent to Ukraine, of which most of it was either stolen or sent back to Raytheon, Lockheed and Boeing.
And 10% for the big guy.
More likely Dems get Kagan to retire, nominate Harris and fill the VP with who they want to run. Or just skip over her completely and get her a nice cushy six figure consulting job at Greyhound as a consolation prize.
You mean Sotomayor, right?
Didn’t bother reading ENB’s bullshit, did she explain why Reason’s new preferred candidate needs to “evolve” her views on emptytheprisons and sexwerk?
Reason is a (nominally) libertarian blog.
Libertarians believe sexwork should be legal.
If you're coming to Reason, you shouldn't need that obvious thing explained to you.
Libirtines make sex work one of their top platforms. That is what is done here. You can be against the laws without spending 90% of your time advocating for it or trying to change stigmas around it.
If selling is legal and fucking is legal then why isn't selling fucking legal?
He has, on occasion, been willing to do things that are right but politically unpopular, such as withdrawing from Afghanistan.
I don't even know where to begin with this sentence.
"Oh, sure, just about every other sentence out of Trump's mouth was misinformation at best."
When did you start working for the CIA?
Biden is a professional liar. Trump is an amateur.
I don't see any advantage having one over the other. At least Trump is obvious. Biden's lies are somewhat plausible when they are washed through the mainstream media.
LOL.
FOX "washes" Biden's lies? Or by "mainstream media" did you mean to exclude the biggest player in that field and only refer to the less mainstream outlets like MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc?
You leftists really hate any sort of counter speak dont you.
"I don’t see any advantage having one over the other..."
A raging case of TDS will do that to shit-piles.
I just don't see why so many people think you Trump Supporters are rude. I mean, people should love being called "shit piles".
How cute, ENB thinks that the Dem cabal will let Harris clinch the nom. In reality the scene inside the DNC is Biden’s rearguard trying to fight off the Obama contingent not directly welded to Biden’s inner cabal and the Newsom boosters. All while the remaining vestiges of Hillary’s crew snicker in the wings.
I think they start working toward 2028. Meantime, do everything possible to thwart Trump's second term.
2028? AOC will be eligible.
Nominate Hillary. It's surely her turn now.
“Some people have fantasies about running California Gov. Gavin Newsom”
Butplug for one, per the other thread. plug even did his cringey locker room talk trying to boost Newsome.
He does have the best hair, and that's always an advantage in elections.
Kamala Harris could do the job of the President and certainly better than Trump. But that is of course a low bar. I also think if people take a hard look, they will see she is better than the current perception of her. She will need Democrats support and she will need to hold to the middle of the road. She may not be my preferred candidate, she may not be a great President, but she can do the work.
Thanks, TDS-addled pile of shit.
My, what a polite reply. I just don't see why people think Trump Supporters are unhinged maniacs when people like you exist.
FOAD, steaming pile of TDS-addled shit. Asshole like you get what they deserve.
Wanna get treated decently? Grow up.
Gee, you're such a kind hearted loving person.
Kamala Harris is neither serious nor competent, and you're a clown for suggesting otherwise. Fuck off.
Ah, such polite debate. I am truly moved by your professionalism and human decency. Why would anyone think ill of Trump Supporters when people like you are on his team.
Yes. We all must be nice to those usurping our liberties. Right on Mike! Nice makes right!
What could possibly be a better look for Democrats than for the first woman President to be a woman that literally got her career started by sucking dick.
Democrats don't see cock sucking as a bad thing. They've supported Bill Clinton, many Democrat women saying they would be happy to suck his dick for how he protected abortion. They use the phrase Blow Job so it gives an impression of professional services.
There is a long list of cock suckers who have made it big in the DNC.
This is the beginning of the narrative wars. If the Dems are smart they won't fall for the trap and nominate Harris. I have nothing against her and I bet most people only have opinions filtered through the FOX echo chamber. But it is evident that the right-wing propaganda worked and she has too much baggage. Better to go with someone competent, smart and a dollop of charisma. Don't worry about name recognition. People are eager for anyone to counter Trump's insanity. This is no time to pay back politicians with favors. Go with the best they can get and line up behind them. Do not pick Newsome. Go centrist. This shouldn't be hard.
Newsome is a centrist. Just look at his policies. (speaking of the FOX echo chamber.)
I’d be interested in seeing Buttigieg run but I think he needs to wait until 2028. He’s smart, educated, experienced, and young. Could be the next Kennedy or Obama. And while his being gay will lose him some voters, the blatant homophobia he’d generate on the GOP side could turn a lot of centrist independents to the left, just as racism did for Obama’s election.
You are unhinged from reality if you think Newsome is a centrist, and you are unhinged from reality if you think Buttigieg has any chance of becoming president. The regime is dead.
Newsom is only a centrist in the California Peoples' Democratic Party. And he's a centrist only because the wealthy donors on the right hand side of the party still have some sway over him.
"Newsome is a centrist. "
Ohhhh, I get it. You're a parody. Got it. Carry on.
You mean his taxes, his reparation initiatives, California energy standards, covid policies, Healthcare for illegals, min wage for contract jobs, schools hiding transitions from parents... Totally moderate.
Are the democrats here getting even more stupid?
You. don't live here. Do you?
That’s what they ought to do, but it’s not likely they will. It shouldn’t be hard, but it is. If Biden pulls out, is pulled out, or strokes out, the most likely result is a brutal three- or four-way knife fight for the nomination.
In some imaginary world where people did the right thing:
1. Harris would invoke the 25th right now, and simultaneously announce that she will neither seek nor accept the nomination, and that on 1/20/25 she will unconditionally turn over the presidency to whoever Congress determines won the electoral vote, and will immediately escalate to force against anyone who tries to interfere with that.
2. Democrats would suspend their convention rules to release all delegates for the first ballot.
3. The “squad” and allies would understand that this is not the time for them to act out or take hostages.
4. The party would make a statement that they hope to win on votes, not lawfare or jacking with the rules. They would stop harping on the current criminal cases, drop all objections to 3rd party ballot access, and agree that no elections rules will change before the election.
5. And finally, Temp POTUS Harris would announce that if Trump wins she will issue a pardon on all the criminal cases. Not because he’s factually innocent, but to respect the results of the election and start moving back toward normalcy.
But, none of that is going to happen.
and will immediately escalate to force against anyone who tries to interfere with that.
Unless it is dem lawyers pushing election suits. Lol.
You seem really concerned with the democrats election game plan. Thought you weren't a dem.
Hello, Jesse. Glad you’re back and hope you enjoyed the debate.
I can talk about democrat strategy despite not being one, just like you can talk about libertarian strategy even though you’re an authoritarian nationalist.
Well, isn't that the duck calling a duck, a duck.
Yeah, the party is going to go for box checking and unfortunately Kamala checks lots of boxes. If the party replaced a black woman with a white guy their far left voters would vote Green Party in protest.
“…I have nothing against her and I bet most people only have opinions filtered through the FOX echo chamber…”
That’s because you’re a fucking imbecilic pile of lefty shit.
"... Better to go with someone competent, smart and a dollop of charisma..."
But they want a Democrat.
How quick was her dropping out of the 2016 primaries again?
The Democratic party could easily fix this. The problem is there's a group of four sociopaths who can not and will not agree on who the big cheese is: group Obama, group Hillary, group Newsom and group Jill Biden. They almost certainly hate one another and all are such megalomaniacs that they need to be the ones in charge.
You forgot the Michigan fuhreress.
Heil Whitmer!
I don't think she has the juice to be in the conversation just yet. Remember that Newsom is very much the Pelosi candidate. Jill is only in the convo because she currently holds the best hand: she has control over the President of the United States. He's gonna try and do whatever she tells him to do. And so maybe Whitmer could be Jill's leverage I suppose.
God these are some awful people. I guess you have to be to ascend those ranks, but dear god.
Hard to fake a kidnapping in just 3 months.
Group Obama (or was it Group Clinton?) finally got the NY Times to admit that Biden is an unqualified disaster. Not sure who their alternative is though.
"The next presidential debate happens in September, after both parties will have formally named their candidates." There is zero chance of another debate. Biden's handlers will keep him in a rubber room until the next inauguration and Trump doesn't need to mop the floor again with that demented idiot.
Kamala is less popular than Joe so she would never get the nomination, but more relevant is the fact that Joe cannot be replaced on the ticket unless he willingly surrenders he delegates. The party cannot take them away from him. He must participate. There is NO way he will do that and Jill won't allow it either.
You said the name Jill? I can seriously see the DNC getting her to run instead of Joe and she might be their best bet.
Why would they want that? They don't actually care about the Democratic party (or obviously the country), they care about themselves and Jill Biden solves none of those problems. The point of all of this was to hand Obama a third term he was constitutionally forbidden to seek (IE he's committed a serious Federal crime), any pick other than Joe or his wife is going to want to wrest control away from him. And his wife wants no part of this (not what she signed up for).
I want to believe that so hard. But I feel like the DNC could just make some shit up as they go. Or kill him. Or just fortify the fuck out of this thing.
Why would Dr Biden not want her husband to retire? You didn't offer any sort of explanation for that. They're rich enough and can retire with full presidential benefits and enjoy the same peace most former presidents earn (see George W.)
Your comment reads pretty misogynistic. "Joe's wife won't let him!"
She and the inner circle have been “helping” run things for some time, and from her POV she probably thinks they, collectively, have been doing a good job.
She may very well believe the situation is sustainable, and view herself as a modern day First Lady Wilson.
Retirement doesn’t include power and fame.
Because they love the power & fame. Same reason that all the old farts in congress won't retire.
"...Dr Biden..."
You're a laugh riot, dooooooood!
The Dems can wait until after the election, then Biden will "step down" and his committed Electors can vote for anyone they are told to.
Is there any way for the state parties to revoke their delegate selections now?
Harris vs Trump- Trump +10 at least
I hear Gavin Newsom hopped a jet to DC this morning.
Let's hope it's a Boeing.
I hope he paid to offset his carbon footprint
No Joe and the whore in '24? I already had the bumper stickers made, damn it all to hell!
"Again and again, she's proven herself willing to blow with the political winds."
I see what you did there.
Dean Phillips and Jason Palmer are the only candidates besides Biden that have won delegates. Not known nationally and not sufficiently authoritarian for their party, they still could run against Trump and possibly have a chance of winning. But they had the temerity to run against Biden so would take a miracle for either of them to end up at the top of the ticket.
I note that the betting odds this morning still favor Biden staying in the race.
Arent they old white guys? Do you think replacing a black woman who is VP with an old white guy is a good strategy for the Demicrats? I don't think we are lucky enough for that to happen.
“The next presidential debate happens in September, …”
Don’t hold your breath. No need to watch a man cut his own throat, twice.
Well, if Biden were to accidentally on purpose fall down a flight of stairs and winds up in a coma then the next debate will be with a new player, likely Harris since all the other options being floated are white guys and the DNC isn't going to commit political suicide. We aren't that lucky.
I don't see how Harris is the winner. If the Deep State had confidence in her, she would have already replaced Biden as President. By finally admitting hat Biden is mentally incompetent to serve another term, the DNC will replace Biden at the top of the ticket before the election, leaving Harris out in the cold.
Trump came across as an asshole who had to have the last word. He spent half of his time on each new topic hammering what Biden said about the last topic into the ground.
Many moderate people likely saw him as a bully beating up an old man who probably didn't even know where he was much less what he was trying to do.
Biden was so pathetic I actually felt sorry for him. He was so out of touch up there from the first question forward. The DNC is guilty of elder abuse.
Sure Trump "won". But it was like a teenager beating up a 5 year old. Some kid with Downs Syndrome and a horrible stutter could have beat Biden. It was no challenge.
Many people who have been on team Biden are now on team Anyone Else. The most logical anyone else now is his VP. If the DNC picks someone else they are going to have a PR nightmare, especially if it's a white guy. They can't get rid of Harris. It would be political suicide and we aren't that lucky.
If it wasn't obvious before, it should be obvious to people now how unserious you are. Your politics reflect a 'moderate' Democrat in a deep blue progressive city if I had to guess, but then it would just be a guess.
There are plenty of rural people who share the same misconceptions on politics and think their small group of like minded leftists represent some kind of national consensus.
How is his summary any more unserious than yours?
He is right, Trump comes across as a dickhead. He wasn't nearly as bad as the 2020 debates, but he still made a lot of unnecessary insults. He could have made just as many points without going into the personal insults.
I love these authoritarians coming here and telling us how to be Libertarians. It's so damn funny I have to put down the phone because I'm laughing so hard. My wife gets pissed that I'm laughing so hard she can't hear whatever reality tv program she has on.
It also really points out how absolutely insane the hard core Trump Supporters are. They act like Trump is the Messiah and is a perfect being with no flaws.
Trump is a barbaric asshole. He is a fucking New York developer, a greater quality of asshole you cannot find in the world. He makes Russian mobsters seem charming and friendly.
He eats his steaks well done. If you order a steak well done in a family owned steak house in South Dakota they throw you out. They won't do that to a good cut of meat. He also uses ketchup on steak. FUCKING KETCHUP!!!
Those are the least of his faults. He has many. Yet I voted for the man twice. Yes. Twice. Knowing full well he's an asshole.
I happen to be an asshole too. I think it's time we assholes get the representation that cunts and dicks have been getting for decades. I may vote for him a third time. Still not sure. He's supporting this 10 commandments in schools crap and that really turns my stomach.
But yeah, they call me a Democrat because I'm not a Christian Fascist. Fuck them.
Oh the fucking irony of the two biggest authoritarians supporting Joe and his use of state against political opponents calling others authoritarian. Lol.
Democrats want to control every aspect of your fucking life and you two constantly simp for them. It is hilarious.
It is possible to dislike Trump for things Trump actually does and still not want Biden or Harris in office. You don't seem to understand that point. To you it's all or nothing. A closed loop, a single pie divided up.
There are as many registered voters who don't vote as there are registered voters who do vote. There is a large contingent who think both options suck and have been sucking for a long time. Every year fewer and fewer people turn out to vote because we get shit like this. Trump v Biden. Dawn of Senility.
All the people who arent going to vote aren't secret Biden lovers. They just won't vote against the greater evil. They want candidates they can vote FOR.
Thanks Mike!
Harris is the winner because Biden is the loser. This is known as Copematics.
Yeah, the time to convince Biden not to run was last year. Now it is too late.
It was too late in 2019.
Only regime shills like ENB actually believe VP Giggles could win this election. It's fantasy.
VP Giggles, a good name, is a black woman in a party of box checkers. She's been VP. Having been a VP is an almost guaranteed win for a candidate. The former VPs who lost are infamous because of their rarity. On the math she looks good to Democrat voters. The question is how word she play to moderates. They don't give a shit what you think. The Republicans could dig up the corpse of Adolph Hitler and run him and you still wouldn't vote for a Democrat.
>The former VPs who lost are infamous because of their rarity.
Bah. The former VPs who *won* are just are rare. If we skip the VP's who were President before the election... Biden won in 2020. Before that, Gore lost in 2000. HW Bush won in 1992. Mondale lost in 1984. Humphrey lost and Nixon won in 1968, Nixon lost in 1960. The VP has a record of 3-4 in semi-recent times. Call it a toss-up.
Before that... if I'm not mistaken, you'd have to go all the way back to Van Buren's win in 1832. Jefferson won in 1800 and Adams won in 1796. Forgive me if I discount those, especially the two before the 12th Amendment.
If we look at the VPs who *did* take office, Ford lost, Lyndon Johnson won, Truman won, Coolidge won, Teddy Roosevelt won. So that's a much better record of 4-1 in the post-1900 era. Before that, Wikipedia says "Arthur made only a limited effort to secure the Republican Party's nomination in 1884". Andrew Johnson couldn't get the Democratic nomination in 1868. Fillmore won one state in 1856 as the last gasp of the Whigs, and couldn't get the nomination in 1852. Tyler formed a third party and later dropped out of the race in 1844.
Whew. Did I miss any?
Fuck. You put effort into that. Bravo. I was going off memory.
But I will say Gore shot himself in the foot WHILE his foot was in his mouth. Gore was impeachment insurance, like Dan Quail who wisely never tried to run. The only time he did anything remotely intelligent.
Mondale in 84? He was against Ronald Reagan who was pretty much unbeatable. The Dems could have cloned FDR and he would have lost to Reagan.
Those two don't count.
Can we just have the election now? I really don't need another 5 months of this shit.
Maybe the Dems will decide to follow Macron’s example and do just that. It’s not like Biden can improve between now and November
One of my favorite things about parliamentary systems like that is that they have those surprise snap elections. I'm sure the campaigning is still annoying as hell, but at least it only lasts 5 weeks.
Bingo
That's a lot of words just to say "Trump is the real winner of last night's debate."
Trump beat an old man with dementia at a game of remembering shit. Congratulations. Will he now start arm wrestling quadriplegics?
Lying TDS-addled shit pile tries to minimize an absolute disaster.
FOAD, asshole.
Cope harder.
So this is what we're doing now? Claiming that Biden only lost the debate because he's functionally retarded? Fascinating mix of "Ok, it's true, it's as bad as you say" and "You beat up a girl, man!" after the girl picked the fight.
We're we watching the same debate? The one where Biden mumbled incoherently and Trump kept using time to go back and keep arguing old points? Where Trump didn't answer a good number of the questions but instead talked about how horrible Biden was and how amazing everything was when he was president? How Trump said his was the best presidentcy of all time?
Biden was a vegetable and Trump was an asshole who couldn't let anyone else have the last word. A kid with Downs Syndrome and a harsh stutter could have beaten Biden and probably would have looked more respectable than Trump.
“an old man with dementia”
This is who your party chose, guy.
Funny how this was a conspiracy theory just 2 days ago.
Not everyone who disagree with you votes Democrat.
No but you do.
I've never voted for a Democrat even if I hated the Republican and no Libertarian was running for that seat.
People can recognize Trumps actual faults and still vote for him.
It's not like he had an opportunity to choose a more worthy opponent.
I'm not a fan of Trump's debating style, or his style in general. But a win is a win.
Yes, he won. Just like when a teenager beats up a 5 year old. He won. But does the win really matter? Is it worth bragging up? "Donald Trump, you just beat an elderly man with undiagnosed dementia and maybe Alzheimers as well. What are you going to do next?" "I'm going to Disneyland!"
So who was it that put that senile old man up to it in the first place?
The damage has been done and every democrat knows it. Don't blame Trump for it.
Even Cenk Uygur/Young Turks is disturbed.
The Dems would sacrifice Biden to the alter of totalitarianism.
Cenk is always disturbed. When he shuts the fuck up, then I will be impressed.
Dont know how this weird cope article came to fruition.
Imagine being so disliked, so incompetent, so despised by the American people who know you are there to check DEI boxes (after polling 5th or something in your own state)...that your own party is in full on freak out mode that if their weekend at Bernie's president dies, that *gasp* YOU have to actually do the job the American people knew you could never do in the first place (because you were always just window dressing).
Imagine them freaking out that they might be stuck with you, you who should be the presumptive next prez/nominee for the party by default, if their puppet president dies.
Imagine all of this being common knowledge, and then thinking the freak out over Joe's now-too-obvious dementia and inability to perform his duties is somehow anything other than an confirmation that the party, the American people, everyone with a brain has absolutely no faith whatsoever that you could run a successful lemonade stand in a heat wave.
To say that the debate was disastrous for Biden is accurate, but somehow too weak. It's hard to describe, for those who weren't watching, just how bad Biden looked, sounded, and came across, or just how resoundingly Trump won the night.
I'm trying to find the words to describe how unsurprised I am, and how little description I need from the author to remind me... reassure me... describe to me how dementia-addled Biden is, but they're eluding me.
Ambush
The power-brokers of the DNC contrived an ambush to kill Biden's chances to be the nominee. In a previous comment, this commentator predicted it before the debate, a prediction that you heard or read in few, other places. It read as follows:
"Biden To Debate? Why?
Ask yourself, Why are the powerbrokers in the DNC allowing Biden to debate? Everyone knows that he is a demented, old fool likely to make gaffs if he doesn't fall asleep in the middle. So, why?
One explanation is that a poor performance by the corrupt, professional politician is exactly that which the DNC wants. That way, they can jettison him and the stupid Kamala Harris before the Democratic convention then nominate Michelle Obama. Who's behind the ambush? Why Hussein himself guided by his cabal. Would she beat Trump? Hands down!
“Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.” -H. L. Mencken (1880-1956)"
"Every election is a sort of advance auction of stolen goods. "H.L. Mencken
Here's an article headline in my local paper:
El... oh... el.
ENB, abortion was important to you. 'Our precious democracy' was at stake. So you voted Biden.
You got what you voted for, good and hard.
even most Democrats know she's worse than the current zombie vegetable they're pretending is president. Jill Biden sure did pick a good insurance policy for Weekend at Biden's.
Nothing like being biased and working at reason.
I watched the debate and as a fact every other word out of Trumps mouth was not a lie!!!
Trump exaggerates, bloviates and is not always good at saying what he means, but he was NOT constantly lying.
One wonders what debate Brown watched and what she was on, but her lying comment renders her a biased hack.
As ducksalad pointed out, Trump has a habit of turning relative comparisons into absolute statements. So instead of, say, making the claim that the southern border is "a very dangerous place", which is very defensible and not a lie, Trump turns it into an absolute statement like "the border is the most dangerous place in the world", which is demonstrably untrue and a lie. He does this sort of thing over and over again. And I suppose if you just listen to Trump enough you mentally drown out all of his wild exaggerations, but they are lies.
To be fair that is kinda splitting hairs. People know what he meant....a little embellishment is not rally a lie.
Correct. It's America's cities that are the most dangerous places in the world, particularly Milwaukee, Wi., Chicago, Baltimore, Oakland, E. St. Louis, Memphis, Detroit, D.C. San Francisco, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, ........
I suspect there are some lovely third world shitholes with cities that make downtown Detroit look like fucking Mayberry.
I wish Reason mag didn't have such TDS. Trump is a liar. But Biden isn't? Huh?!?! Biden continues to claim that Trump said the Nazi were good guys, that Trunk allows trips suckers and losers, that he inherited Trunks inflation, that the Trump economy was horrible and on and on. Stop acting like Biden (whose first attempt at being president was derailed because of lying and plagiarism) is some kind of honest old man.
Good grief.
It's not just Reason. Trump uses hyperbole constantly, is unable to coherently explain policy and he is a dick. Biden lies and knows he's lying when he spits it out, is an amoral sack of shit and when you see the dysfunction of all his spawn (save the dead ones) it is no surprise and is also a monumentally arrogant asshole. Unfortunately given that the DNC is now jus an organized crime ring desperate to keep the grift that is DC alive there isn't much choice despite Trump's flaws.
Biden's lies are hard to nail down because he couldn't fucking complete a sentance. He couldn't speak clearly and he didn't even know where he was.
Trump, to his detriment, spoke clearly and was easy to understand...
Adam Schiff for PRESIDENT!
"One thing she has proved consistent on is panic about sex work."
Does that include screwing Willie Brown in exchange for a successful career in politics?
The debates sent a clear message: Biden is unfit for anything except a retirement home.
The past three years of this administration has proven to be a disaster for America. Another four years of the Obama led administration will finish off the nation and leave it in ruins. Inflation, high food , energy, fuel and housing costs have driven Americans into a hole. The nation is BANKRUPT period. No argument. We are busted . The dollar is being replaced as the reserve currency and when it finally hits the bottom, then what? Are you ready for when that happens?
The Biden administration also showed it true colors by acting with certain three letter agencies to threaten and pressure certain social media outlets to censure any speech they don't like. Which they did. Then the dems have the gall to label Trump a fascist and a Nazi. The First Amendment means nothing to the democrat party.
Hundreds of Americans sent to jail for exercising their Frist Amendment rights (Jan. 6) languishing and dying in Garfinkle's gulag/prison.
That party has been infiltrated and taken over by radical left wing extremists and post modernist neo- Marxists. All of them from the Hillary and Obama camps.
America simply cannot withstand another four years of this. I'm not sure if Trump can turn this around but I know damn sure that Biden will make it worse....much, much worse.
I still can't get over ENB calling the withdrawal from Afghanistan as "politically unpopular." Were there people protesting in the streets to leave the troops there, and I totally missed that? When has the general public ever been eager to make a war last longer?
The whole Afghanistan withdrawal was a complete MCF.
First, Pompeo & Trump negotiate a withdrawal that basically hands Afghanistan back to the Taliban. But it's all good b/c then Trump could say, "I brought the troops home."
That was a great goal but a lousy negotiation b/c of Trump's political ambition.
Second, Biden "inherits" that mess when he takes office and manages to take it from Bad to Worse.
Two incredibly bad presidents in a row, and they're are only choices for a third time. F that noise! Boycott the election.
First, Pompeo & Trump negotiate a withdrawal that basically hands Afghanistan back to the Taliban. But it’s all good b/c then Trump could say, “I brought the troops home.”
Don’t know why we’d care who controls Afghanistan. Yes, it’s good that the troops get to come home instead of being a permanent garrison force doing the work of an Afghani puppet government.
Don't boycott the election. Vote for *someone* (just not those two.) Otherwise it just looks like apathy.
I listened to the debate at 2x.
Biden was in a weird place 2 or 3 times but seemed fine, well, maybe just OK.
Trump doesn't seem to know the definition of felon. Is there a definition of a character suit in the making?
Elizabeth Nolan Brown is spot on when she said, "Just about every other sentence out of Trump's mouth was misinformation at best. "
Kamala Harris... lol.
Go ahead, Democrats, make Trump's day! Nominate Kamala.
And 12 hours later, she was fuming raging pissed because Barry Zero and a couple of top Democrats met to discuss what to do - and didn't invite her.
LOL!
No. Kamala has zero chance of ever being president let alone the nominee. She has the IQ of a chair and is less popular than Joe. Also, there is zero chance that Joe steps down. They're circling the wagons to protect him. This is good because it means Trump will destroy him in November.
I'm actually a little more worried that he'll die.
The only way Kamala Harris could be considered the winner of Thursday's sparring match (it wasn't a debate, but rather a take down of three left wing partisan Democrats by Trump) was/is if Biden/Harris (or Harris and another VP candidate) beats Trump in November, which isn't going to happen (unless Trump dies).
Rather, it appears increasingly likely that Biden and/or Harris are going to lose in a landslide to Trump.
It also appears increasingly likely that the GOP will win control of the US Senate (and perhaps pick up 5 Senate seats), expand their control of the US House, and gain several state legislative bodies.
The only smart thing that Biden did (if he was the one who did it) was choose the most awful person possible to be his running mate. No one would would want Biden removed from office either by an assassin or the 25th Amendment if it meant that Harris would succeed him. She's the rare combination of incompetence, malice, inauthenticity and sheer physical repulsiveness.
I don't know. Is she seriously worse than Dan Quail, the original impeachment insurance policy? Is she worse than Al Gore? I can't imagine anyone worse than Al Gore the first Tree VP.
Quayle never tried to murder anyone by suppressing the DNA evidence that exonerated him.
-jcr
Quayle wasn't smart enough to pour piss out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel. Harris on the other hand is the kind of evil fucker that donors LOVE to throw money at.
Ms Brown: I disagree with the basic premise of your article. The real winner of the debate was R.F.K. Jr. Biden embarrassed himself. Trump started strong, sticking to issues. But Trump could not contain himself and the whole debate digresses into what sounded more like two geezers at the senior care facility arguing about who ate all the Spaghetti-O's. Both of those candidates came out as unfit to man the Oval Office.
One thing's for sure is that they weren't the kennedy - Nixon debates which by the way was sponsored and run by the League of Women Voters, not some pencil necked media hacks /CNN.
The losers, however, are the American people.
As for R.F. K. Jr. he comes across as an intelligent man who has it together. Which is why the Democrats want him out of the picture.
Not sure who is worse, Kamala Harris or Gavin Newsom.
They're both evil. Newsom is almost as slimy as Bubba Clinton. Harris tried to murder Kevin Cooper by suppressing evidence.
-jcr
Certainly the Democrats have made sure she's kept away from doing any harm . Gavin Newsom on the other hand has done a great deal of harm to California and continues to do so.
Newsom, therefore is much more dangerous than Harris by a long shot. He's dangerously stupid as well.
Kamala Harris is a whore. I don't object to whoring per se, but Willie Brown shouldn't get to spend tax money on his whores.
-jcr