Nikki Haley Presented an Off-Ramp from Trumpism. Republican Voters Didn't Care.
On some issues, Haley offered a fleeting glimpse of what a serious Republican party could look like.

Nikki Haley has ended her campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, clearing the final electoral hurdle for former President Donald Trump to retake the nomination for the third consecutive time.
"The time has now come to suspend my campaign," she said in an address Wednesday morning. "It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him, and I hope he does that."
Haley, a former South Carolina governor who also served as ambassador to the United Nations under Trump, entered the race in February 2023. She was the first candidate to do so after Trump—an awkward position after saying explicitly in 2021 that "I would not run if President Trump ran" and that she would support his reelection bid.
Ultimately, awkward characterized much of Haley's campaign positioning, as she tried to simultaneously appeal to both MAGA diehards and Never-Trump conservatives. She was never as forcefully anti-Trump as New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, nor as vociferously pro-Trump as Vivek Ramaswamy.
Haley spoke of the need for "a new generation of leadership"—an implicit shot at both Trump and President Joe Biden, who would respectively be 78 and 82 years old on Inauguration Day 2025. She characterized the former president less as unfit for office than just unsuited for the current moment: "Eight years ago, it was good to have a leader who broke things," Haley said in October. "But right now, we need to have a leader who also knows how to put things back together."
But going easy on Trump didn't endear her to his supporters: Ahead of the Iowa caucus in January, Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) posted a video on X (formerly Twitter) in which he declared himself "Never Nikki," effectively offering his endorsement to any Republican or Independent candidate except Haley. Trump himself mocked Haley in clear racist overtones—first by suggesting that despite being born in South Carolina, she was not qualified for office because her parents were Indian immigrants, and then by simply making fun of her first name, Nimarata.
Haley did catch on among a subset of Republican primary voters, though never enough to overcome her former boss: Throughout the primary campaign, all candidates not named Trump were competing for a minority of voters as the former president captured more than 50 percent in poll after poll.
The primaries themselves went similarly: While Haley notched a narrow third-place showing in the Iowa caucus, both she and the runner-up, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, trailed Trump by nearly 30 points. Even after DeSantis dropped out, Haley would lose each subsequent primary, other than Washington, D.C. On Super Tuesday, Haley won only Vermont out of 16 total contests. Clearly, more Republican voters had no appetite for a non-Trump candidate.
Which is a shame, because, on some issues, Haley was a breath of fresh air in the Republican field: While her fellow primary candidates bemoaned Biden's spending record, Haley was willing to call out those same candidates, and Trump himself, for adding $8 trillion to the national debt when they held the nation's purse strings. "Our national debt will eventually crush our economy," she warned in her address on Wednesday morning. "A smaller federal government is not only necessary for our freedom, it is necessary for our survival."
She was pragmatic on the subject of abortion, rejecting a national ban at the first GOP primary debate and saying the party should prioritize common ground over onerous restrictions. "Be honest with the American people," she said. "No Republican president can ban abortions."
But unfortunately, that wasn't the candidate that the average Republican primary voter was looking for.
Sarah Longwell, GOP strategist and publisher of The Bulwark, wrote when Haley entered the race in February 2023 that "Haley would be the frontrunner in a Republican party that no longer exists." Ahead of the New Hampshire primary nearly a year later, Mark Leibovich wrote in The Atlantic that Haley could be "the latest contender to lead a post–Donald Trump Republican Party that never arrives."
In fairness, Haley was no perfect candidate, including for libertarians. In declaring himself "Never Nikki," Rand Paul cited Haley's "attitude toward our interventions overseas" (she favors continued aid to Ukraine) and her "involvement in the military-industrial complex." In her address suspending her campaign, Haley reiterated her calls for a more muscular foreign policy, saying that "our world is on fire because of America's retreat. Standing by our allies in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan is a moral imperative, but it's also more than that: If we retreat further, there will be more war, not less."
But for a major political party that remains in thrall to a single deeply flawed candidate, Haley represented a fleeting glimpse at what a serious party could look like. Unfortunately, that party bears little resemblance to the one whose primary Haley just exited.
When DeSantis ended his own campaign in January, Reason's Eric Boehm wrote that "DeSantis might have offered an actual vision for the future: one that revived a small-government Republicanism as a necessary contrast to Trumpism." Haley, on the other hand, was more than willing to call out both Republicans and Democrats for their unrealistic pledges and their shared role in expanding the size of government—unfortunately, she was running for the nomination of a party that no longer exists.
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Woo! "Libertarians" for warmongering! Nice one Lancaster.
Like warmongering is worse than mean tweets.
I literally was laughing at the headline and lede.
More wars. More spending. Letting dems win. Continuation of deep state. Defending IC.
Fucking hilarious.
Thank you!! 1000%
Exactly, Trump was negotiating peace deals and pushing for reduced troops overseas. Criticize him for other things. Never thought a Libertarian site would support a warmonger in bed with defense contractors as a good thing.
“C’mon, guys! We know what you really want is Bush 3.0!"
Only tilting even more towards Democrat positions.
"But for a major political party that remains in thrall to a single deeply flawed candidate, Haley represented a fleeting glimpse at what a serious party could look like."
My disdain for Trump dead-enders is well known but let's not pretend Haley or her backers were all that "serious." It was always clear she had no path.
Reason's sugar daddy wasted his (inherited) money on a guaranteed-to-fail venture.
My disdain for Trump dead-enders is well known but let’s not pretend Haley or her backers were all that “serious.” It was always clear she had no path.
If she had no path, it is because Republican primary voters (the party's base) is still too in thrall of Trump to see his flaws or consider other options. Or, perhaps it is more accurate to say that they see what other people call his flaws as his virtues.
What really made it impossible for any alternate candidate was Trump skipping all of the debates. Instead of having to share a stage with other candidates where he would have to answer questions that he might not want to answer, he decided that it was better for him to just keep doing his rallies with an adoring audience that would hang on his every rambling word.
The other Republican candidates couldn't (or wouldn't) be very critical of Trump without him there.* Had Trump been on the stage with them, using his childish nicknames for them and attacking them, they would have been truly cowardly to just take it and not give it back in kind. Was Trump a "stable genius" for doing that? No, he was cowardly for not being willing to subject himself to actual scrutiny. He hadn't earned any deference that would have justified him feeling above debating GOP rivals. Not after Republicans underperforming in Congressional elections in all election cycles and most special elections after 2016. And that was especially true of candidates he had endorsed.
That is the bottom line for all Republican primary voters that chose Trump. They picked a narcissistic, cowardly loser with a victim complex that offers nothing substantial in the way of policy that would make working class and middle class citizens live better lives. He's the candidate of pure grievance that appeals only to those that can't stand anyone other than them being in charge.
*(Except for Christie, who wasn't running because he had any chance, but only to have the platform to attack Trump.)
"...If she had no path, it is because Republican primary voters (the party’s base) is still too in thrall of Trump to see his flaws or consider other options..."
TDS-addled shits NEVER see their assholery for what it is, do they?
A good number were ready to move onto Desantis if he hadn't run the shittiest campaign possible. Vivek pulled in more of the young libertarian crowd while also appealing to the MAGA ideals that Trump voters want. I'll grant that some people only like Trump because he is an arrogant asshole who shits on other assholes the can't stand. I think the cult of personality is minimal and effectively a fiction as it is used by the media and opponents (but I repeat myself.)
if he hadn’t run the shittiest campaign possible.
It really was. He must've hired the geniuses behind the Jeb! campaign.
Or, perhaps it is more accurate to say that they see what other people call his flaws as his virtues.
Yeah, the GOP's primary voters are going to support a candidate who at least acts like he gives a shit about their concerns, instead of hand-waving them off and saying that they need to "compromise" with the same people who've been shitting on their head for the last 50 years. Who could have seen that coming?
What really made it impossible for any alternate candidate was Trump skipping all of the debates...Had Trump been on the stage with them, using his childish nicknames for them and attacking them, they would have been truly cowardly to just take it and not give it back in kind.
Haha, yeah, this worked great in 2016.
Trump is a known quantity with vast majority support in the party's voters. He didn't need to make the case for why he should be the nominee, he's done that twice already. The other candidates failed because they either had shitty organization (DeSantis), were Neocon Redux (Haley), non-entities (Scott/Pence/Hutchison/etc.), or manic NeverTrumpers who couldn't articulate support for any policies the voters actually wanted (Christie).
He’s the candidate of pure grievance that appeals only to those that can’t stand anyone other than them being in charge.
When the fuck have the working-class white people he appeals to ever been in charge of anything? GTFO with this bullshit.
"Yeah, the GOP’s primary voters are going to support a candidate who at least acts like he gives a shit about their concerns, instead of hand-waving them off and saying that they need to “compromise” with the same people who’ve been shitting on their head for the last 50 years."
Why the GOPe couldn't wrap their heads around this is beyond me. Bill Clinton was good at this too.
All the working class wanted was a candidate who at least pretended to represent them, and the evangelicals a candidate who doesn't obviously hate them and actively wish them harm.
A Haley nomination would have represented effectively handing the party back to Bill Kristol and Liz Cheney. That was obviously never going to happen. Anyone who donated to Haley's campaign might as well have lit their money on fire.
The only chance (and it was a slim one, admittedly) of pushing Trump aside was backing DeSantis.
The only chance (and it was a slim one, admittedly) of pushing Trump aside was backing DeSantis.
True, but ultimately, the voters weren't going to go for New Trump when Trump Classic was still available.
"Yeah, the GOP’s primary voters are going to support a candidate who at least acts like he gives a shit about their concerns, instead of hand-waving them off and saying that they need to “compromise” with the same people who’ve been shitting on their head for the last 50 years. Who could have seen that coming?"
Kudos for a more direct way of saying what I've been saying all along.
As I said below, DeSantis + Vivek + Trump = 80% of GOP primary voters (basically all of the DeSantis and Vivek voters went to Trump after they dropped out). It's pretty clear what the party VOTERS want.
And the establishment should remember that the Trump voters are Never Nikki. My wife wanted Nikki Haley because she wanted t "win" but she could never answer "Win WHAT?" -- Haley is basically a center left Democrat globalist who will sell out all of our freedoms at the drop of a hat just for a dollop more power, just like most of DC. Why, exactly, would voters tired of getting crapped on want warmed-over, failed milquetoast Bushism that crapped on them and sold them out with the cowardly constitutional traitor John Roberts (Mr. penaltax, mandates, etc.)?
I'm a bit unusual in that I have a post-graduate degree, but I grew up around enough blue collar people (in town and in my family) to cut across both groups in a way a lot of people don't see outside their bubble anymore. Not on everything but I'll side with the "riff raff" because they have a point. And because the things coming for them are coming for the rest of us, too, if they're not stopped NOW.
Not on everything but I’ll side with the “riff raff” because they have a point. And because the things coming for them are coming for the rest of us, too, if they’re not stopped NOW.
Most of the neocon faction that waves these concerns off are simply hoping they can kick the can down the road far enough so that they’re in the grave when things ultimately go pear-shaped. “Cowardly” doesn’t even begin to describe these people, especially given that they LOVE to get other people to fight their battles for them. If the right ever did actually get the upper hand in the culture war, these same people would act as if they were responsible for it instead of the ones who actually fought, like they always do.
Lol. None of that matters, Jason.
One of your judges fined him $350M for making a real estate deal that no one complained about and was paid back. Another fined him $85M for saying he didn’t rape some flaky old bitch. ‘He said/she said happens every day, but this one’ll cost ya 85 mill!’ What did you think was gonna happen?
Volumes will one day be written about the stupidity of the dems scorched earth approach with this guy. (And the complete fucking morons that they tasked with carrying it out.) You have no one to blame but yourselves. Again.
Haha. Keep those Russians on standby though, I’m sure some morons will believe it.
Why do the democrats/statists that post here seem the most upset by her loss?
Because they knew Biden would easily beat her, seeing as how she basically presents the same world view as him (read his puppeteers).
Exactly. If the election were held today, Trump would probably beat Biden both in the electoral college and the popular vote. What's remarkable, according to polls, is that 97% of those who voted for Trump in 2020 will vote for him in 2024. Only 83% of those who voted for Biden in 2020 will vote for him in 2024, and 10% of those who voted for Biden will now vote for Trump.
I agree with much of what you've said here, but I have to add two important things. One, people don't seem to believe that we need to understand and address the concerns of the voters who choose Trump to lead this country. Two, the fact that Trump has been harassed, disrespected, impeded, and most recently persecuted beyond the pale has simply exacerbated the problem. We've created a 'martyr', divided the country, and destroyed any hope of reunification. For seemingly intelligent people, we've been even more oblivious, petty, underhanded, and vindictive than Trump has.
Reason’s sugar daddy wasted his (inherited) money on a guaranteed-to-fail venture.
It's kind of funny to refer to Charles Koch as having inherited his money in a thread that references Trump. It is true that he (and his late brother David) inherited and continued their father's business. But they also grew it to many times its value after they had bought out the stakes of their other two siblings. (They bought out their share for $1.1 billion in 1983. Koch Industries had $125 billion revenue in 2021 and employs 120,000 people.)
I'm the opposite of a fan of the Kochs or Trump. But of the two of them, I at least acknowledge that David Koch really does know his business and is extremely successful on his own terms, not just because he inherited wealth.
BTW, do not forget this slimy pile of lefty shit supports murder of the un-armed for some reason he can't quite name:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Yep, someone might do something, so shoot her!
“It’s kind of funny to refer to Charles Koch as having inherited his money in a thread that references Trump.”
Not really. I’ve also said countless times I think Trump is a ridiculous buffoon.
I've never pretended Trump is a self-made American success story.
At least Donald Trump cares about America. Koch sure as Hell doesn’t. He just wants cheap labor and a compliant and grateful donee in the White House.
Of course a leftist like you thinks this is good.
Remember when the leftist that posted here HATED the Koch brothers?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
2024 and all the leftists support Koch, Big Pharma, the World Economic Forum, public/private partnerships, political censorship and the military industrial complex.
You could blow somebody's mind with that prediction in 2004.
Pepperidge Farm remembers. And so do I. Man I've been here a hot minute.
Reason’s sugar daddy wasted his (inherited) money on a guaranteed-to-fail venture.
Worth it.
How many "Nikki" voters are there, really?
Take away the democrats that only voted in the republican primary because they could. They will never vote for any republican in the general election.
Then take away the never Trumpers who will not vote for Trump even to prevent the fascists from remaining in power.
What is left are a few republicans who voted for her 'just because*', but will vote for whoever the republican nominee is to stop the democrats.
*Just because she was a woman, just because she wasn't Trump. And so on.
Probably the sum total of Bill Kristol/Chris Christie fans, plus people who are overly irked by Trump’s tweets.
So just a few points above the statistical margin of error.
Haley was willing to call out those same candidates, and Trump himself, for adding $8 trillion to the national debt when they held the nation's purse strings.
Blasphemy! Trump isn't responsible for a dime of spending! That's all on Democrats!
Drunk already sarc?
He's awake isn't he?
It's a day that ends in "y".
Barack Obama Presented an Off-Ramp from Bushism, too. Didn't work out, still kick myself for that vote. Although heaven knows what Mcainnism would have wrot over this country.
I'll take Trump over Haley any day of the week.
"In fairness, Haley was no perfect candidate, including for libertarians."
---------------------------------------------
Haley is HORRIBLE for libertarians. It shouldn't be hard to say.
What? You mean going to war in 10 countries at once with no strategic interest in any of them is not a libertarian policy?
Here I thought that since Reason was pushing Haley they had decided that ALWAYS being at war was the new "libertarian" and Dick Cheney had been post-humously inducted into the Libertarian party!.
I mean, he might also be referring to the 'register everyone on the internet' thing, among others.
There was just such a variety of things to dislike, policy-wise.
“…. post- humously….”
Dicks dead?
Undead?
Haley was a great candidate, for Democrats who pretend to be Republicans.
…or who pretend to be Libertarians.
Of course Reason supports FJB’s controlled opposition.
“It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him, and I hope he does that.”
That’s dumb. Donald Trump can’t even fathom how to expand his voter base and he sure doesn’t want to either. His voter base can’t comprehend what an election is since to them elections can only have one outcome.
Unfortunately for anyone who thinks the most important issue of the 2024 election is whether there will even be a 2028 election — the 2024 election is a choice between Last Election Ever and Dead Man Walking.
His voter base can’t comprehend what an election is since to them elections can only have one outcome.
That's not true. Elections can have two outcomes. They win, or fraud.
Pour Sarc. So drunk, so broken, so angry. And such a craven pussy.
“It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him, and I hope he does that.”
"That’s dumb."
It IS dumb, and it is dumb because despite what some think, Trump is the moderate in this election. Biden policies are VERY far left. Just this week we learned that he has been conducting secret flights from Latin America to fly people into the USA who upon arrival become illegal immigrants.
So now, the US Government is acting as a coyote for bust-the-border illegals. Whether you think that we should have more immigrants or not. The White House has been running a criminal enterprise with taxpayer money. Far to the left of any President in my memory.
And this is only ONE example, new to us this week.
Just this week we learned that he has been conducting secret flights from Latin America to fly people into the USA who upon arrival become illegal immigrants.
What have we actually learned about that? I've seen that MTG was framing it that way, but I don't know anything about the details. Where did these people actually come from, what was the reasoning behind flying them here, in what way were they "illegal"?
Biden policies are VERY far left.
Is he advocating for a VAT? Nationalizing any industries, especially health care? Huge expansions of the welfare state with massive tax hikes to fund them? The U.S. is so far behind almost all OECD nations in overall taxations (as a share of GDP) and social welfare spending that it is almost funny when people talk about how "socialist" or "leftist" Democrats and their proposals are.
1. He's supported 'tax harmonization' across the globe.
2. He helped create Obama-care which came within a hair's breadth of nationalizing health care. He was part of an administration that actually wanted to nationalize health care.
3. He literally gave out trillions in extra welfare.
He also supports kids getting their genitals chopped off, open borders, bullshit "green energy" programs, and institutional discrimination against white people via DEI policies.
4. Will pay off his potential voters’ school debt, to the tune of trillions, unless stopped by checks and balances that barely exist in current US Gov
5. Directed OSHA to fine employers who failed to mandate Covid masks
To be fair, FJB is merely a life long, corrupt POS with probably no political philosophy to speak of. But his handlers are clearly short-bus leftist.
1. Yes, tax harmonization would mean that countries would agree to make their tax systems for multinational corporations more uniform. That sounds like a good thing to me, as having a few 'tax havens' distorts markets.
2. Obamacare hardly came "within a hair's breadth of nationalizing health care." The idea of a public option was dropped before Congress even got to work on it, as I remember it. The ACA expanded Medicaid eligibility a little (for states that wanted it), encouraged states to set up marketplaces where private insurance companies would offer plans to individuals, provided subsidies to some people to purchase insurance on those exchanges, set up a requirement for people to have health insurance while also requiring insurance companies to offer insurance to everyone without regard to pre-existing conditions.
There was more, and some of that changed as legal challenges were resolved, but you must have a different idea of what counts as "nationalizing" an industry than I do. Nationalizing an industry has always meant the government takes over and directly produces the goods or services of a whole industry. Private companies are either small and niche within that industry or don't exist at all. In health care, that would mean having the government be the single provider of health care coverage (no private insurance). That is what the progressives call "Medicare for All". Or, it would be the government directly employing doctors, running hospitals, and so on, like the National Health Service in the UK.
3. So did Trump. Republicans in Congress voted for at least some of those plans too, even while Biden was President.
https://www.investopedia.com/government-stimulus-efforts-to-fight-the-covid-19-crisis-4799723
Remember this slimy pile of lefty shit supports murder of the un-armed for some reason he can’t quite name:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
Yep, someone might do something, so shoot her!
320k of them using the new border patrol parole app dumbass.
So this is the app you're talking about? I'm not seeing how people using this app to schedule an appointment would be in the country illegally.
As I said - to some voters at least, this election is solely about one thing. Whether there will be another election.
You only yap about 'issues' because you care deeply about who wins. You care so deeply about who wins and what they will do with that power and what those issues are that you no longer care about whether there is even a choice in future. Trump has tapped into your grievance mindset and wound you up into pretending that that doesn't matter. If you and your side don't win, it's because the other side cheated.
I have not voted for the winning Prez candidate since 1984. After 40 years, I certainly don't expect to vote for the winning candidate ever again. I have no delusions that my vote has any power to change the world and force everyone else to my whims. And that's ok. Losing an election is ok. As long as there is a possibility that there will BE another choice in the future. Do you even understand that? No of course not. You're going to pretend that what I said is just some D hackery. Because everyone is D or R. Good or evil. Right?
I do not fall for the horseshit that you clearly believe. That this election is the only important thing that will ever occur again in your lifetime. So you don't care about any future choice because THIS choice - THIS November - is the cliff. You are totally ok with Stalin/Saddam/youknowwho - anything where democracy/republic ceases - because the alternative is, to your mind, worse.
You must have a tough time falling asleep what with all the demons running around in your head.
You are totally ok with Stalin/Saddam/youknowwho – anything where democracy/republic ceases – because the alternative is, to your mind, worse.
You must have a tough time falling asleep what with all the demons running around in your head.
The sheer disconnect between these two statements is incredible.
He's not talking about policies. I think his point is that he fears Trump and his supporters who have decided elections are a sham will make sure Trump becomes president and stays president. Elections and their results be damned. I can see how someone could think that, but I don't share that fear.
I see this same stuff being said on Denver sports boards, so I know this is just a function of being in the orbit of the neurotic cesspit of the Mile High Shitty.
It's not a disconnect. Understand. I have ZERO emotional buy-in to any election outcome. It's outside my power. It's outside my life experience. It's alien. So I have no demons keeping me up at night worrying about a 2028 election. It's just an analytical puzzle. And not a difficult one.
Trump is authoritarian. The only people he will accept in his cabinet are authoritarian. You brownshirts here are authoritarian - as is the entirety of his base that is all wound up about this election. There will be no 2028 election 'defeat' possible for Trump because he and his advisors and your ilk will completely accept martial law to make sure that is not possible.
On the bright side - Dead Man Walking ain't gonna defeat Last Election Ever because a significant portion of what Genocide Joe BELIEVES is his base ain't gonna play lesser evil this time. So you people will get what you want unless Dead Man Walking doesn't make it to November (or more accurately the Dem Convention).
You brownshirts here are authoritarian – as is the entirety of his base that is all wound up about this election.
LOL, I’m hardly wound up about it. I’ve said several times he’s not going to win, because I saw the color revolution that happened in 2020, Time Magazine confirmed it, and it’s obvious they’re going to run the same playbook now that he’s the presumptive nominee.
And I’ll wear that “brown shirt” proudly when the accusation is coming from a political faction that thinks kids should be sexualized and encouraged to cut their genitals off. Burning the Hirschfeld Institute to ashes was one of the few good things Little Mustache Man did.
Covid Commander JFree calling others brown shirts is irony defined.
That’s dumb.
Something is quite dumb here, just not what you think. Actually, what you think is exactly what is dumb.
Last Election Ever and Dead Man Walking.
Biden isn't running against himself. Probably neither of them old farts will make it through the next 4 years.
Neither of them? In 4 years, Trump will be the age Biden is now. And he looks healthier than Biden did 4 years ago. If Biden wins, I think it's likelier than not that the only way he finishes a second term will be unconscious on life support, while his cabinet and VP appointees are still too afraid of what comes next to do their duty and invoke the 25th Amendment. But Trump looks as fit as my grandfather who had more than enough to retire at 65, but kept on selling insurance until he was 85.
Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair, j.
Haha.
I’m pretty sure he expanded his voter base in 2020 and, if recent polling is to be believed, is making even more inroads this time around (personally take it with a grain of salt, but obviously the Dems don’t since they are fucking scared of him actually winning).
And I appreciate how you just completely dismiss people’s totally rational arguments about 2020 by basically smearing them as spoiled children.
If there were any 'totally rational arguments' about the 2020 election, then they would have been presented in at least ONE of the 60+ lawsuits, in ONE of the arguments before a court, would have been pressed by even ONE permanent Trump appointee who had also taken an oath of office. None of that happened. None of it.
Instead - people like you who apparently watch way too much TV glued yourself to NewsMax or Fox watching either Trump's personal (not appointed) advisors - Giuliani, Powell, Flynn, etc - and various conspiracy nutjobs/advocates and professional 'vote suppressors' make claim after claim after claim after claim. With Trump then tweeting those back to his followers - to start a new round of the same. Getting more hyperventilated and frantic each round. Until the 'official' channels for presenting 'rational arguments' did their job and certified the EC vote.
When the only thing that was left was:
for the personal advisors to argue for martial law, etc on NewsMax, etc
for Trump to draft an exec order:
ordering the SecyDefense (acting by them - not appointed) to seize all election materials nationwide
to present an 'investigation' of the election to Trump, Attorney General (Barr was fired and the replacement was acting not appointed), Homeland Security (acting not appointed)
to order SecyDefense to federalize National Guard units
to appoint Sidney Powell as Special Counsel to conclude an elections investigation by mid-February 2021
for Trump to tweet to his followers 'Statistically impossible to have lost the election. Big protest in DC on Jan6. Be there. Will be wild.'
And for Trump to prepare a statement on 'National Healing' to be delivered the day after Jan6 had everything gone to plan.
“I would like to begin today by addressing the heinous attack that took place yesterday at the United States Capitol,” it opens. “Like all Americans, I was outraged and sickened by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem. I immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders. America is, and must always be, a nation of law and order.”
There is nothing 'rational' about any of this. This is how the Big Lie works. How insurrection works. You are not a spoiled child. You are a fascist.
What's really funny is how that 'National Healing' statement throws all his supporters under the bus. Like Trump has been doing all his life. For the purpose of - furthering Trump
Do the math.
Trump + DeSantis + Vivek = 75-80% of the GOP primary voters. Even higher if you factor out crossover chaos Democrats.
Nikki is a globalist RINO. She is basically Hillary Clinton with a phony R next to her name and a lower body count (but, hey, she has a couple decades to catch up).
I don't much like Trump (though I still VASTLY prefer him to Xiden), but it's staggeringly simple: the Republican base wants the freedom/disruption candidates, not the milquetoast loser phonies who sell them out and stab them in the back in a neverending game of Lucy and the football. They're not going back to the Big Biz One World Bushies. Ever. And for that, I say, good for them. Maybe the "rubes" aren't quite as stupid as you think.
Why is this so hard for Beltway establishment hacks to comprehend?
And don't blame me for all this or call me a Trumpster... I wanted Rand Paul in 2016. But as of now, it's either Trump probably screws up (because he's Trump) or Xiden and the insiders destroy America, humanity, and freedom forever.
Trump + DeSantis + Vivek = 75-80% of the GOP primary voters.
In 2016, Trump got the votes of 45% of Republican primary voters. Meaning that 55% wanted someone else. Also of note is how that includes the later states where others had dropped out. The first state he won a majority was NY in mid-April.
How did Trump capture the GOP so totally after not even winning the majority during the primaries in 2016? That's an interesting question. My thoughts on it are that once Republican voters had chosen him in the general election, they became invested in continuing to support him. People don't want to admit, even to themselves, when they make a mistake like that. Ask people that voted for Bill Clinton if they would do so again, knowing what they know now, and I'm sure very few would say that they wouldn't. On top of that, they will almost certainly also say that he was victimized by the "vast, right-wing conspiracy" unfairly.
Voting for Trump now is the ultimate way to "own the libs." That he actually has less of a lead over Biden than Haley in recent polls doesn't seem to be a factor in their thinking.
In 2016, Trump got the votes of 45% of Republican primary voters. Meaning that 55% wanted someone else.
Hillary got more votes than Obama did in 2008. This "55%" crap doesn't mean shit.
Jason is just a obfuscationist, smoke and mirrors commenter, nothing more.
So another Jeff Typical Collectivist sock?
Keep in mind this slimy pile of lefty shit supports murder of the un-armed for some reason he can’t quite name:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
Yep, someone might do something, so shoot her!
How did Trump capture the GOP so totally after not even winning the majority during the primaries in 2016? That’s an interesting question.
imo - because no one else even considered trying to understand his base of voters and their grievances/resentments. Even now. Trump channeled the same basic grievances/resentments as McCarthy, Nixon, Wallace, Reagan, Perot, etc - Dems and Reps. I remember talking to someone very early on saying - there's no way a narcissistic billionaire who's never done a hard day's work in his life and has spent his entire life cheating those people who make up his base can successfully keep stoking their resentments. Someone else with one ounce of cred - or optimistic messaging like Reagan - will pop Trump's hot air balloon.
And yet - here we are 8 years later and no one else has even tried.
Someone else with one ounce of cred – or optimistic messaging like Reagan – will pop Trump’s hot air balloon.
The same GOPe that hates Trump were terrified of Reagan specifically because of his populist appeal. They supported Bush or Anderson, and didn't start acting like they'd always loved Reagan until he wiped out Mondale in 1984.
Revisionist history. In 2016, Trump’s second-longest-lasting challenger was Ted Cruz, another center-right boogeyman of the establishment.
Put together, they totaled over 50% of the primary vote in almost every primary, and I think no less than 47%. You could also round out the GOP ‘wing’ of anti-establishment rebels with Rand Paul and *maybe* the Marco Rubio or Ben Carson vote, although those are more of a stretch.
Once it was Trump vs Kasich (rebel vs establishment) the same 70-80% went to Trump, as happened yesterday.
(Source: Wikipedia article, results of the 2016 Republican presidential primary).
Point being you need the ENTIRE CONTEXT, and the fact is, since 2016, for three primaries running, the GOP base has said a big fat HELL NO to the establishment. It’s not “being sold on Trump,” it’s not wanting crappy BushRomney retreads like Haley or Christie who have given their voters NEXT TO NOTHING on their actual priorities for THIRTY YEARS.
Must be terrifying to be surrounded by all of those straw people. I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992. Would I do it again? Fuck no. I didn't vote for Trump or anybody else in the 2016 primary. I'm not a Republican. I dutifully voted for Gary Johnson in the general election. I don't have a dog in your fever dream fight. I voted for Trump in 2020 entirely because of his policies. From the best foreign policy I'd seen in my rather long lifetime, deregulation that was very good for my business and all the way down to vaping, light bulbs and shower heads. Trump is no libertarian and doesn't claim to be. Gary Johnson and Bill Weld are not libertarians either despite their claims to the contrary. Nikki Haley is an unapologetic war monger who has stated in no uncertain terms that she will maintain the current regime strategy of endless war. She is the opposite of what we used to call libertarian. But she's a "breath of fresh air in the Republican field" to assholes like you and Lancaster.
It’s not about the ‘libs.’ It’s people looking at the way in which the world dealt with an anti establishment candidate (I didn’t vote for him in 2016 and I didn’t get it). and seeing inside how few choices we have and how clear the elites are to create media and censor people, and we work up to the real implications of the rulers. Now we want to get rid of it. Libs also agree.
Gods, you're really desperate for this to be true. Hilarious.
Nikki Haley is the NRA of politics.
Like the NRA, she pretends to be ‘fighting for you’ and then offers ‘compromises’ that give your opponents everything they wanted and nothing for you.
And that's why gun-owners don't suppor the NRA any more. But non-gun owners are so clueless they think the NRA is important.
This is the most apt analogy of the GOPe writ large I’ve ever seen. That is EXACTLY why the base hates them.
Reason writers having nostalgia for the politics of the old Bush era GOP establishment is amusing.
In many ways, the GOP voters supporting Trump have adopted thr knee jerk isolationist attitudes on foreign policy that this magazine used to promote.
Also, I do not think that Nikki Haley, had she been President when COVID happened would have done anything differently than Trump did with fiscal policy. That seemed to be a collective, relatively nonpartisan decision by our political class, and fighting it would have been a futile gesture.
Same here.
I'm not mad at Trump for what he did at the beginning of Covid. I'm not mad at Biden for what he did immediately on taking office.
I'm mad at Trump for refusing to recognize the mistakes made and I'm mad at Biden for the same thing *and then doubling down on the mistakes and silencing people* when the data showing he made them was presented.
At the beginning no one knew what the fuck was going on or how to handle this.
”no one knew what the fuck was going on or how to handle this.
Some of us did.
Yeah, but I can give a pass for at least the first 2-4 weeks of that bullshit, because the media propaganda was DEFCON 1 level and made it difficult for normies to discern what was what.
In the first 6 moths to a year? No, you did not.
At the very start of this scam while the internet was full of videos of Chinese people dropping dead in the street and piles of bodies being loaded into vans by scary dudes in hazmat suits, every passenger and crew member of a Princess cruise ship was exposed to Covid. You could hardly design a better laboratory experiment. We knew exactly the infection rate, the vulnerable population and the IFR. All of this was ignored in the march to tyranny but it was known to some of us.
You can go through the early threads here. Many of us were pointing to the 100 years of masking, lockdowns, etc and pointing out the actions were wrong. Ironically many of the demands we saw were tried during the Spanish Flu and they failed then as well. Then when the cruise ships happened, as mentioned above, it was essentially trial evidence of the true risk numbers.
>On some issues, Haley offered a fleeting glimpse of what a serious Republican party could look like.
She certainly did.
The GOP as feckless, Democrat-lite, warhawks.
And you're upset that people rejected that?
Like, Lancaster, *dude!* C'mon man. She wanted to *license social media usage*. She wanted MORE WAR. All of this includes more and larger government as a matter of course.
But hey - no mean tweets, amirite? Lancaster is going to 'reluctantly and strategically' vote for Biden. Again.
You know who else wasn't a perfect candidate?
John Yerkes Iselin?
Bill Weld?
"A smaller federal government is not only necessary for our freedom, it is necessary for our survival."
What the fuck does this glittering generality even mean? Where are the cuts going to come from that will make a substantial difference? How are we actually going to pay down the national debt that's gone up every year since 1957? And how does this apply at a local level where civic engagement is a necessary component of a high-trust society?
Trump was clueless about how to go about this, but this has been a failure going back generations now, in no small part because the GOPe fetishized "small government" as a broad policy, while knifing any Republican who actually threatened to do so in the back, starting with Goldwater.
She was pragmatic on the subject of abortion
What? No she wasn't:
"If it's six weeks, that's great. If it's 15 weeks, that's great. If it's 20 weeks ... it's going further than what we want, but guess what? We'll save more babies that way."
That's not pragmatism, it's "let the Democrats tell us what they'll let us have," the same old neocon playbook for decades. I don't agree with the crowd that wants to ban abortions from conception, but I can at least acknowledge that they aren't willing to compromise on an actual principle, something the center-right loves to peacock about but never delivers.
And like I've pointed out before, a faction of the GOP/ex-GOP who worship corporations as putting business above everything else (a perception that most assuredly is NOT the case the last few years) was notably clueless as to how to market a candidate they preferred in a way that would make them more appealing than Trump. Trump, for all his faults, at least got that part down.
Actually Trump is pretty pragmatic on abortion as well. This is not a distinguishing feature for Haley as Lancaster dishonestly claims.
Right? I like neither of them on this position. Trump gets more respect from me because he tried serving the will of his voters despite his personal beliefs. He pushed the overton window on the issue despite being pro-choice
Ultimately, sending the decision back to the states was the right call from a federal standpoint. People who think a national ban is going to happen are delusional, and yeah, a center to left-wing court will likely reinstate Roe whenever that happens.
But let's not kid ourselves, the Supremes have been politicized since at least the Warren Court, and to a certain extent at other times such as the Taney Court with Dred Scott. That's the nature of a polarized electorate and an office where people can literally die at their desk.
Well, we could go back to pre-COVID spending. Didn't we have a big enough government then? But instead we have about $1.75T step function in spending that cannot be cut?
We actually might not, given all of the extra money that has been printed. But we might get away with at least not increasing it for the next ten years or so, as long as we stop printing more money.
Sane Republican = Moderate Democrat.
She lost her home state by 20 points. The Republican voters that know her best told her to go pound sand. The GOP isn't in "thrall" to Trump, they HATE HATE HATE the establishment. Hate them with the passion of 1000 burning suns. And then Joe here bemoans that we need the "sane" Republican party of old.
Trump is quite likely to get the highest share of the black vote for a Republican in a very long time, and that's precisely because he's the one that revealed the Bushes to be the blue blood clowns that they are. They like Trump because they hate the "acceptable Republicans" that Joe is longing for. Stop pretending like Trump is a cult leader, and start looking into the legitimate reasons why people want to vote for him.
Not only did she lose by 20 points, she lost in an open primary. Where there was a concerted effort for Democrats, who had no real primary for Joe Biden to crossover and put their thumb on the scale.
She still couldn’t carry her state.
She lost Nevada to None of the Above 63.2% to 30.7%
She lost to None of the Above by 2 - 1, and it still took her several more tries before she faced reality.
they HATE HATE HATE the establishment. Hate them with the passion of 1000 burning suns.
I'm beginning to think this is the most butthurt, mask-dropping aspect of Trump to Gary Johnson libertarians.
>>a fleeting glimpse of what a serious Republican party could look like.
fucking nailed this, Joe. and nobody wants that. nobody.
a fleeting glimpse of what a serious(ly fucked up) Republican party could look like.
Now don't any of you fret over Tricky Nikki.
She learned her lesson well from Comrade Bernie Sanders.
Both have made millions off of campaign contributions.
The next time you see Tricky Nikki, she'll probably be living in Beverly Hills, munching on caviar and sipping champagne with members of the idle multi-millionaires.
Isn't politics a wonderful way to make millions?
She’s got a real future as a contributor to either CNN or MSNBC.
I'll be concise, this isn't about Trump, it's about you. Trump just happens to be the one carrying the flag.
Turns out the Trump off-ramp was also the Neocon MIC War Party on-ramp.
Exactly. The establishment shills don't get it, this isn't about Trump.
The Trump off-ramp is also...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l482T0yNkeo
“Haley represented a fleeting glimpse at what a serious party could look like.”
You’re glimpsing through rose-colored glasses on this one Joe.
Saying no Republican President can ban abortion nationally is pretty easy to do, given that Trump an actual prior Republican President had no interest in doing it either. And as for calling out Reps and Dems for “expanding government”, Haley, your supposed advocate of smaller gov’t, talked about requiring identification for social media use. How you can take anything she says seriously about limiting gov’t is a question you should ask yourself.
There is nothing about Haley that is appealing from a Libertarian point of view that wasn’t already on offer by DeSantis or any of the other “alternatives.” I get that you guys don’t like Trump. But please, is it really necessary to push a stale Bush-lite Republican policy advocate as an alternative?
She is just like that grossout Hillary , just like her. Ride the coattails of some man, attack and look like you're independent,say sht that makes people think you were penned up before --- and then say something stupid beyond belief to piss off everybody , like Hillary's Reconstruction comments.
Tell you why, just as with Romney and Pence, people hate traitors.Nikki kissed Trump's boots once and then one day Et Tu, Nikki ??
*** Quote ***
Which is a shame, because, on some issues, Haley was a breath of fresh air in the Republican field: While her fellow primary candidates bemoaned Biden's spending record, Haley was willing to call out those same candidates, and Trump himself, for adding $8 trillion to the national debt when they held the nation's purse strings. "Our national debt will eventually crush our economy," she warned in her address on Wednesday morning. "A smaller federal government is not only necessary for our freedom, it is necessary for our survival."
*** End Quote ***
You've got to be s**ting me. In that first debate, Haley started with the austerity comment, but it was demonstrably complete bulls**t. Almost in the same breath, she later lamented that Republicans HAD to spend 10s of BILLIONS of dollars on Ukraine, and it was just a tiny portion of the defense budget (actually, it wasn't part of the defense budget at all). She's one of the exact same neocon carbon copies we've had from the Republicans for most of my adult life.
The worst of the worst somehow always make it to the top of the Republicans and the Democrats.
"None of the Above" is always on the ballot ...
Tulsi Gabbard Presented an Off-Ramp from Progressivism. Democrat Voters Didn't Care.
On some issues, Gabbard offered a fleeting glimpse of what a serious Democrat party could look like.
Headlines Reason would never ever write, for $100 Alex.
Even Tulsi frickin' Gabbard would make a better "conservative" Republican than the Nikki Haley/Mitt Romney/John Kasich establishmentarian type douchenozzles.
It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party
Still waiting for that. From him or his bloc of knuckledragging mouthbreathers.
Been waiting since 2015.
He won't. He's just like the Democrats. His only campaign promise is "I'm not the other guy."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3iyvbsRDM
To get my vote Mr. Trump will have to very specifically commit to supporting Israel and Ukraine and spell out how he intends to do so.
Given how aid to both of those countries has been held up because Trump doesn't seem to want it (at least not for Ukraine), I wouldn't hold my breath. All of Trump's rhetoric about Ukraine has heavily implied that his solution to forcing peace between them is to let Russia have what it wants.
Why are you useless warmongers even here?
Eat a sack of festering donkey cocks.
Funny how us warmongers think that letting a powerful country roll in and conquer a smaller neighbor is a bad idea.
I mean, it’s just one war, right? If Ukraine hadn’t resisted, it would have been over fast and Ukrainians would be better off! So what if they would be under the thumb of a dictator, made to dance to Russia’s tune with their diplomatic and trade relations subjugated to whatever benefits Russia, even if it harms them. So what if they would see any chance at developing into a fully functioning, free country squashed for generations? I’m also sure that Putin would be satisfied and stop with Ukraine. I mean that’s what history tells us about megalomaniacal authoritarian nationalists, right?
Fuck Ukraine.
Just think if Haley won the new Secretary of State would be Victoria Nuland. And Reason being a bit too much in bed with the amen lobby would cheer.
Not a dime for the new Trotsky (Zelensky) and time to clean house in US foreign policy with folks who are not obsessed with a personal grudge.
Serious? War mongering, lying, taxing, fascists are seriously evil, but they aren't serious candidates for the Presidency of the United States of America. At least not if we want to return to any notion of democracy, let alone the libertarian democracy a magazine like Reason should be promoting.
Repugnant. Shame on you. Shame on her. Shame on the Koch interests that dominate this place.