The D.C. Circuit Unanimously Rejects Trump's Audacious Presidential Immunity Claim
The appeals court says it "cannot accept that the office of the Presidency places its former occupants above the law for all time thereafter."

A federal appeals court panel today unanimously rejected Donald Trump's audacious claim that "absolute" presidential immunity bars his prosecution for attempting to stop Joe Biden from taking office after the 2020 election. That outcome is not surprising, given the skepticism that all three judges, including a Republican appointee, expressed during oral arguments in the case last month. But their reasoning is important to consider, especially because Trump is certain to seek Supreme Court review.
A federal indictment obtained by Special Counsel Jack Smith charges Trump with three conspiracy counts and one count of obstructing the congressional certification of Biden's victory. Those charges are based on his attempts to enlist state and federal officials in his efforts to reverse the election results, including his recruitment of "alternate" electors that he wanted legislators to recognize instead of Biden's slates. Trump argues that all of the conduct described in the indictment qualified as "official acts" for which a former president cannot be prosecuted unless they resulted in impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate.
"For the purpose of this criminal case, former President Trump has become citizen
Trump, with all of the defenses of any other criminal defendant," the D.C. Circuit says.
"But any executive immunity that may have protected him while he served as President no longer protects him against this prosecution."
Trump argued that the constitutional separation of powers should prevent his prosecution. To the contrary, the D.C. Circuit says, that principle requires that the case be allowed to proceed.
"At bottom," the D.C. Circuit says, "former President Trump's stance would collapse our system of separated powers by placing the President beyond the reach of all three Branches. Presidential immunity against federal indictment would mean that, as to the President, the Congress could not legislate, the Executive could not prosecute and the Judiciary could not review. We cannot accept that the office of the Presidency places its former occupants above the law for all time thereafter."
Trump argued that federal courts "lack the power to review the President's official acts under the separation of powers doctrine." His lawyers relied heavily on the Supreme Court's 1803 decision in Marbury v. Madison, which declared that the acts of an executive official, "as an officer" carrying out "the will of the President," can "never be examinable by the courts."
Trump "misreads Marbury and its progeny," the appeals court says. "Properly understood, the separation of powers doctrine may immunize lawful discretionary acts but does not bar the federal criminal prosecution of a former President for every official act."
Marbury drew a distinction between "discretionary" and "ministerial" acts. Regarding the first category, Chief Justice John Marshall said in the majority opinion, "the President is invested with certain important political powers, in the exercise of which he is to use his own discretion, and is accountable only to his country in his political character, and to his own conscience." In that situation, he said, "the subjects are political and the decision of the executive is conclusive," meaning it "can never be examinable by the courts."
But that is not true, Marshall added, "when the legislature proceeds to impose on [an executive official] other duties; when he is directed peremptorily to perform certain acts; when the rights of individuals are dependent on the performance of those acts." Then "he is so far the officer of the law, is amenable to the laws for his conduct, and cannot at his discretion, sport away the vested rights of others." In those circumstances, he is acting as a "ministerial officer compellable to do his duty, and if he refuses, is liable to indictment."
As the D.C. Circuit notes, subsequent Supreme Court decisions reinforced that distinction, showing that official presidential acts are "examinable by the courts" when they violate the Constitution or defy the will of Congress. In the 1952 case Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, for example, the Court "exercised its cognizance over Presidential action to dramatic effect" by holding that "President Harry Truman's executive order seizing control of most of the country's steel mills exceeded his constitutional and statutory authority and was therefore invalid."
As the Supreme Court observed in 1882, "No man in this country is so high that he is above the law. No officer of the law may set that law at defiance with impunity. All the officers of the government, from the highest to the lowest, are creatures of the law and are bound to obey it. It is the only supreme power in our system of government, and every man who by accepting office participates in its functions is only the more strongly bound to submit to that supremacy, and to observe the limitations which it imposes upon the exercise of the authority which it gives." That principle, Justice Brett Kavanaugh, a Trump appointee, noted in Trump v. Vance, a 2020 case involving a district attorney's access to Trump's financial records, "applies, of course, to a President."
In that case and others, the D.C. Circuit notes, "the Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed the judiciary's power to direct appropriate process to the President himself." It has held that "the President does not enjoy absolute immunity from criminal subpoenas issued by state and federal prosecutors and may be compelled by the courts to respond." In short, the appeals court says, quoting Vance, "we have '200 years of precedent establishing that Presidents, and their official communications, are subject to judicial process, even when the President is under investigation.'"
Contrary to Trump's claim, "the separation of powers doctrine, as expounded in Marbury and its progeny, necessarily permits the Judiciary to oversee the federal criminal prosecution of a former President for his official acts because the fact of the prosecution means that the former President has allegedly acted in defiance of Congress's laws," the D.C. Circuit says. "Here, former President Trump's actions allegedly violated generally applicable criminal laws, meaning those acts were not properly within the scope of his lawful discretion; accordingly, Marbury and its progeny provide him no structural immunity from the charges in the Indictment."
Trump also argued that "criminal liability for former Presidents risks chilling Presidential action while in office and opening the floodgates to meritless and harassing prosecution." Those risks, the D.C. Circuit concludes, "do not overcome the public interest in fair and accurate judicial proceedings, which is at its height in the criminal setting."
If the chilling effect that worries Trump were significant, the appeals court suggests, it should already be apparent. "Past Presidents have understood themselves to be subject to impeachment and criminal liability," it notes. "President Gerald Ford issued a full pardon to former President Richard Nixon, which both former Presidents evidently believed was necessary to avoid Nixon's post-resignation indictment." Before he left office, "President Bill Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his law license and a $25,000 fine in exchange for Independent Counsel Robert Ray's agreement not to file criminal charges against him." And after Trump was impeached for "incitement of insurrection" in January 2021, his lawyers "argued that instead of post-Presidency impeachment, the appropriate vehicle for 'investigation, prosecution, and punishment' is 'the article III courts,' as '[w]e have a judicial process and an investigative process…to which no former office holder is immune.'"
As for the possibility of frivolous, politically motivated criminal charges, the D.C. Circuit notes that "prosecutors have ethical obligations not to initiate unfounded prosecutions," and "there are additional safeguards in place to prevent baseless indictments, including the right to be charged by a grand jury upon a finding of probable cause." While those obligations and safeguards surely are not an iron-clad guarantee that partisans won't pursue dubious charges against former presidents, the appeals court thinks "the risk that former Presidents will be unduly harassed by meritless federal criminal prosecutions appears slight."
In any case, the D.C. Circuit says, that danger must be weighed against the public's "fundamental interest in the enforcement of criminal laws." In this context, it says, "it would be a striking paradox if the President, who alone is vested with the constitutional duty to 'take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,' were the sole officer capable of defying those laws with impunity."
If proven, the appeals court says, Trump's "alleged efforts to remain in power despite losing the 2020 election" were "an unprecedented assault on the structure of our government. He allegedly injected himself into a process in which the President has no role—the counting and certifying of the Electoral College votes—thereby undermining constitutionally established procedures and the will of the Congress….We cannot accept former President Trump's claim that a President has unbounded authority to commit crimes that would neutralize the most fundamental check on executive power—the recognition and implementation of election results. Nor can we sanction his apparent contention that the Executive has carte blanche to violate the rights of individual citizens to vote and to have their votes count."
The appeals court also rejected Trump's interpretation of the Impeachment Judgment Clause, which says "judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law." Trump reads that language to mean that a former president can be prosecuted for "official acts" only after he is removed by the Senate based on the same underlying conduct. If he is never impeached or if he is acquitted by the Senate, Trump says, he cannot be prosecuted.
That interpretation, the D.C. Circuit says, "rests on a logical fallacy: Stating that 'if the President is convicted, he can be prosecuted,' does not necessarily mean that 'if the President is not convicted, he cannot be prosecuted.'" And since "the Framers knew how to explicitly grant criminal immunity in the Constitution, as they did to legislators in the Speech or Debate Clause," it is implausible that they would obliquely allude to the immunity that Trump perceives. "This tortured interpretation of the Impeachment Judgment Clause," the appeals court concludes, is inconsistent with the historical evidence and with rulings that rejected it when it was "advanced to support claims of judicial immunity."
Suppose that Trump is right, and suppose it is also correct that the Senate has no authority to try a former president, as many Republicans maintained after Trump's second impeachment. As the appeals court notes, that would mean a former president could avoid prosecution for crimes discovered after he left office. Or he could simply resign after committing those crimes, thereby avoiding political and criminal accountability.
Since the Impeachment Judgment Clause applies not just to the president but also to "the Vice President and all other civil officers of the United States," that immunity would extend to them as well. Trump's interpretation therefore "would prohibit the Executive Branch from prosecuting current and former civil officers for crimes committed while in office, unless the Congress first impeached and convicted them," the D.C. Circuit notes. "No court has previously imposed such an irrational 'impeachment first' constraint on the criminal prosecution of federal officials."
Finally, the appeals court rejected Trump's argument that trying him for the crimes alleged in the indictment would amount to double jeopardy in light of his Senate acquittal. The Fifth Amendment's Double Jeopardy Clause says "no person shall…be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb," which "has been interpreted to prohibit 'imposition of multiple criminal punishments for the same offense.'" But a Senate trial is not a criminal proceeding, and the penalties that the Senate is authorized to impose—removal from office and disqualification from future office—are not criminal penalties.
Even if they were, the D.C. Circuit notes, Trump's federal prosecution involves crimes with elements different from the offense ("incitement of insurrection") alleged by his second impeachment. Under the Supreme Court's 1932 ruling in Blockburger v. United States, that means he is not being prosecuted for "the same offence."
In response to the D.C. Circuit's decision, Trump spokesman Steven Cheung reiterated the rejected claim that allowing the prosecution would have a paralyzing effect on the presidency. "If immunity is not granted to a president, every future president who leaves office will be immediately indicted by the opposing party," he said. "Without complete immunity, a president of the United States would not be able to properly function."
Trump's trial, which had been scheduled to begin on March 4, was delayed because of his appeal to the D.C. Circuit. If Trump asks the full appeals court to rehear the case, The New York Times notes, "trial preparations could begin again" after Monday. But if he appeals directly to the Supreme Court, the case against him will remain on hold until the justices decide whether to review the D.C. Circuit's ruling. Depending on how long that process takes, the trial might still begin prior to this fall's presidential election. If that does not happen and Trump beats Biden in November, he could put a stop to the case by ordering the Justice Department to drop it or, in the event of a conviction, by pardoning himself.
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This is either a terrible ruling, or a very terrible article analyzing it.
in no way did he actually try to stop Biden from taking office.
So many of the things he did were prima facie Official Acts, or perfectly fine when Democrats have done them, or both.
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/11/trumps-big-lie-and-hitlers-is-this-how-americas-slide-into-totalitarianism-begins/
Trump’s Big Lie and Hitler’s: Is this how America’s slide into totalitarianism begins?
The above is mostly strictly factual, with very little editorializing. When I post it, the FACTS never get refuted… I only get called names. But what do you expect from morally, ethically, spiritually, and intellectually bankrupt Trumpturds?
Totalitarians want to turn the GOP into GOD (Grand Old Dicktatorshit).
Remind me, please: exactly WHAT WAS Hitler's Big Lie?
I forget the details. I'm serious.
He didn't have one, he accused the Jews of using the Big Lie.
WHAT WAS Hitler’s Big Lie?
That the JEWS were to be blamed for EVERYTHING!!!
Today, we are FAR more sophisticated! We blame MANY types of people now!!!
Well Hell’s Bells, just pass some laws against, and rally the internet trolls and the Proud Boys for some street fights against being illegal sub-humans, trannies, accused “groomers”, abortionists, gays, heathens, infidels, vaxxers, mask-wearers, atheists, dirty hippies, Jews, witches, or, the very WORST of them all, being one of those accused of STEALING THE ERECTIONS OF OUR DEAR LEADER, right, right-wing wrong-nuts? ANY methods are OK, so long as they are used against the CORRECT enemies, am I right?
Hitler didn't use the Big Lie, he accused the Jews of using the Big Lie. Much like how the left accuses Trump of using the Big Lie.
So... When Hitler said... Over and over and over again... That the dirty Jews stabbed Germany in the back in World War One... Hitler was NOT using the "Big Lie"?
"Hitler's Big Lie" as search-string, About 3,550 results (0.30 seconds) from The Google, Which Knows All Things... Is The Google springing a Big Lie on us all?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie = = "Herf further argues that the Nazis' big lie was their depiction of Germany as an innocent, besieged nation striking back at "international Jewry", which the Nazis blamed for starting World War I. Nazi propaganda repeatedly claimed that Jews held outsized and secret power in Britain, Russia, and the United States. It further spread claims that the Jews had begun a war of extermination against Germany, and used these to assert that Germany had a right to annihilate the Jews in self-defense."
Read the third sentence of the first paragraph moron. And no, Hitler was not using the Big Lie because he actually believed it! His anti-Semitism was that strong!
Would you expect Big Liars to NOT accuse their enemies of Big Lies? What planet are you from?
"Hitler was not using the Big Lie because he actually believed it!"
Plain and simple... If his endless Jew-blaming was NOT a Big Lie... Then the Jews WERE honestly and fairly to be blamed for everything bad! "Reality is that which, even when you stop believing in it, still keeps right on existing."
Here's a modern-day example of "Reality is twatever you believe that shit is." It is an endless fascist refrain!
Here’s a poll that says 77% of Republicans believe the 2020 election wasn’t conducted fairly.
https://www.courant.com/politics/hc-pol-q-poll-republicans-believe-fraud-20201210-pcie3uqqvrhyvnt7geohhsyepe-story.html
Others believe the Big Lie… You should believe it, too!
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/06/ted-cruz/ted-cruzs-misleading-statement-people-who-believe-/
“Recent polling shows that 39% of Americans believe the election that just occurred was ‘rigged.’ You may not agree with that assessment, but it is nonetheless a reality for nearly half the country,” said Cruz. “I would note it is not just Republicans who believe that. 31% of independents agree with that statement. 17% of Democrats believe the election was rigged.”
Ted Cruz believes in the Big Lie! If you BLEEVE in it, it becomes TRUE!!! If’n ye do NOT Bleeve… Ye had BETTER watch out, or Ted Cruz and The Donald and The Tribe will GET you!
Hitler accused the Jews of propagating "The Big Lie", not the other way around.
Not only is your retarded Salon article wrong, it's actually copying Hitler by accusing Trump of propagating "The Big Lie".
Par for the course for the Reichsführer of the ᛋᛋqrlsstaffel though.
Moose-Mammary-Necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer does NOT believe that Hitler was using the Big Lie when he (and fellow NAZIs) endlessly repeated that Jews stabbed Germany in the back, in WW I, and THAT was why they lost!!! Therefor, Hitler was correct... Moose-Mammary-Necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer believes that Germany wasn't defeated militarily, except because Jews stabbed Germany in the back!!!
Moose-Mammary-Necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer is an Adolf-Adoring Hitler-Humper, no less than Rob Misek the Miserable Liar!!! It is plain to see, for people who can THINK!
Hey Moose-Mammary-Necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer… TWAT is more signifi-cunt, the sound and fury of idiots accusing each other of telling the Big Lie, or the actual TELLING of the Big Lies, over and over and over again, backed up by threats of violence, and actual violence? Are You entirely TOO Perfectly Stupid to see the light that is cast by this simple question?
It is a fact that Hitler used the phrase "Big Lie" in Mein Kampf as he accused the Jews of lying about why Germany lost WWI. (That it was a prominent nationalist general's fault.) Does that in any way, shape or form contradict that Hitler used that very same propaganda technique later? Could it be, even, that the accusation that the Jews were engaging in a "Big Lie" was itself a Big Lie?
You even seem to be arguing that last point yourself, if you think about what you wrote:
"It's actually copying Hitler by accusing Trump of propagating "The Big Lie"."
This implicitly agrees that Hitler was falsely accusing the Jews when he first used the term "Big Lie."
However Hitler intended it, the term "Big Lie" has become synonymous with the blame he and the Nazis put on Jews for everything that had gone wrong in Germany. It has become a term for anytime political figures use that same propaganda technique to convince followers to believe something highly unlikely to be true without evidence or at least sufficient evidence.
It's hard to parse exactly what Mother's Lament (with a Head Full of Cement) really-actually "thinks", besides "My Tribe Right or Wrong" and "any argument that 'wins', wins!"
She might actually really believe that "the first to accuse the other Team of using the Big Lie, wins the fight, and makes it right!" As if that really mattered, compared to what the Teams actually DO!
"Does that in any way, shape or form contradict that Hitler used that very same propaganda technique later? Could it be, even, that the accusation that the Jews were engaging in a “Big Lie” was itself a Big Lie?"
This is gonna sound bad, but Hitler wasn't "lying" about the Jews; he really believed what he was saying. He wasn't using the Big Lie to get power, but pointing out a tactic (he believed) the Jews were using.
Christian National Socialism's big lie is that mystical altruist collectivism is a true standard of value for distinguishing good from evil. Hitler evidently believed it, along with every Lutheran and almost all Catholics in a country 96% populated by those mystical brainwashees in 1932. It's also Trump and Biden's Big Lie, yet never is it defended other than through sneers and the Argument from Intimidation. Watch and you'll notice the only time Kleptocracy partisans say true things in when tarbrushing each other.
3 in 10 Christians are Democratic [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s].
7 in 10 Atheists are Democratic [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s].
Trying to sell the 'Christian' word on a 30% correlation is pretty stupid. You'd be massively more correct to just use 'Democrat' as the adjective.
Take your meds, Hank.
It's 2023, not 1993 and the moral majority is now just a bogeyman the New York Times renames and props up now again to frighten aging hippies.
Good job, Hank! Agreed! The collectivist pussy-grabbers of BOTH SIDES reveal their evil, stupid, self-righteous pussy-grabbing... By pussy-grabbing each other, all day, every day! And their "leaders" abuse us all day, every day, by grabbing us all, right in our self-righteous pussy-grabbers, while we'd ALL be MUCH better off amputating our own useless pussy-grabbers!
The Reichstag fire.
Ya it is an astonishing how many of these "libertarians" are TDS goose steppers.
Sullum article = more act blue employees.
Every fucking time.
Der TrumpfenFuhrer ***IS*** responsible for agitating for democracy to be replaced by mobocracy!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses.
Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, trumpanzees gone apeshit will be trumpanzees gone apeshit, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
It's Sullum, so both are probably valid.
You're confusing two issues. One is whether Trump has immunity, the other is whether he is guilty.
Ruling that an ex-president is not immune from criminal prosecution for criminal acts committed while he was president is, or at any rate, should be, uncontentious. And that is all this ruling was about.
Whether the charges stick or should stick at trial is a separate matter.
Can you clarify which specific acts you think are criminal? Remember this is the Jack Smith charges so doesn't include the documents. So which acts?
Read the indictment.
I have. Lots of speeches and petitions of the courts.
So which acts?
Slickrick here made this same comment before, unaware that many people ()including Michael Tracey) who are criticizing the indictment have read it.
Yeah. His appeal to authority doesn't work when we have read it but he has not.
I wonder how someone becomes so dimwitted.
"Read the indictment."
I've read it, so explain.
This isn't Huffpo where you can just handwave an allusion and expect no challenge.
Impersonating a West Point cadet.
No. My post addresses the previous idiot's post concerning immunity.
Do you think that the decision denying Trump - indeed, any president - immunity is right?
As I noted with complete clarity, this is a separate issue from what if any crimes Trump has committed.
Imagine a "FREE" people following a clown that says I am above the law...
Like Biden saying he had the authority to forgive student loans without supporting legislation?
In the face of a Supreme Court ruling to boot.
EXACTLY ... And where's the judicial oversight for that one?
So you're against it?
Imagine a fake libertarian promoting banana republic prosecutions of people he dislikes. Oh wait. Don't have to imagine. Youre here.
Yes ^THIS^.
"Ruling that an ex-president is not immune from criminal prosecution for criminal acts committed while he was president is, or at any rate, should be, uncontentious."
Although the endless harassment by the left pushes that uncontentious into contentious.
I mean it is Sullum. Of course it was going to be terrible.
You are naive if you think "Stop the Steal" was something other than stopping Biden from taking office.
What actions were taken to prevent Biden’s inauguration?
The inciting of a mob to storm the capitol.
Which didn’t happen. There was no riot at the inauguration, for one, and Trump didn’t meet the legal definition of incitement.
How would that have prevented Biden's inauguration? Was it being stored in the Capitol? Were they attempting to abscond with the inauguration?
Can you post clearly where the incitement in his speech was? Was it the whole go peacefully part?
^ This
DNC chatbots like freedomwriter and slickrick will shout "incitement" but they'll never explain what exactly the incitement was. Even if you press them.
Freedomwriters "incitement":
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!
1:13 PM · Jan 6, 2021
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1346912780700577792
Petitioning the court to review unconstitutional election rule changes? Oh wait that's compleatly legal
And?
That is not illegal.
Apparently it was about stopping the STEALING of the office.
But hey; Don't let exactly what you say get in the way of painting a narrative.
True.
"This is either a terrible ruling, or a very terrible article analyzing it."
What do you expect from a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit like Sullum?
I am confused. Wasn’t Trump president on January 6?
Any of the things alleged in the indictments that happened while he was still in office as President are absolutely covered by whatever immunity the President - and every other official down to and including police officers - are covered by! Trump's other claims may or may not be rejected by the Court and at least some of them are outrageous, but that one immunity is unassailable. If they reject Trump's claim that "enlisting" officials in the Elector certification process after the election is covered by immunity, then they have to reject every police officer's immunity from lawsuits for damages by people they harmed while violating their civil rights. Clearly even the President can be charged and convicted of crimes committed while in office that had nothing whatever to do with carrying out the duties of the office, or committed after leaving the office.
All Hail Emperor TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer, Who Can Do No Wrong!
Any of the things alleged in the indictments that happened while he was still in office as President are absolutely covered by whatever immunity the President – and every other official down to and including police officers – are covered by!...then they have to reject every police officer’s immunity from lawsuits for damages by people they harmed while violating their civil rights
I think this holds up even with this ruling. Like Trump, police officers have been criminally charged, eg. Chauvin. Both Trump and police officers are immune to civil lawsuits by qualified immunity for official acts.
That's real smart... but this is a question of criminal culpability not civil.
Yeah. That was my point.
What qualified immunity did was to extend the rule of lenity to Section 1983 lawsuits.
The rule of lenity has been a part of criminal law here since colonial times.
Yeah I keep reading that Trump is claiming absolute immunity. I don't think that's correct. I think the argument is that a president can't be prosecuted for official acts while he was in office. Attempting to investigate what he believed to be a fraudulent election and attempting to seat alternate electors in the event that fraud could be proven could easily qualify as legitimate official acts. Let's not forget that somewhere around half of the population suspected that there was fraud in the 2020 election.
I haven't read Sullum's screed but there's an interesting poison pill in this ruling. Trump is required to file an appeal with the Supreme Court by Monday, bypassing an en banc appeal, or the the case will be sent back to the district court so Jack "8-0" Smith can get his conviction before the election.
Trump is required to file an appeal with the Supreme Court by Monday, bypassing an en banc appeal, or the the case will be sent back to the district court so Jack “8-0” Smith can get his conviction before the election
Is this the usual deadline for appeals of interluctory orders?
No. The norm is 90 days if notice to appeal is filed.
Even if the appeal is interlucotory?
Do you have the cite? I am aware of the deadline for appeal after final judgment, but there is no final judgment here.
Jonathan Turley had it up.
I'll see if I can find where I was reading a discussion on normal en banc appeals and timeliness. Think it was Turley on Twitter. May be sub comments though.
I found the tweet.
https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1754981076752060539
Yeah, the judge's framing of the question is what seemed audacious and absurd.
The judge claimed that Trump was claiming absolute immunity. The whole "the president can order rainbow 6 to kill a political opponent" came from the judge
Yeah I keep reading that Trump is claiming absolute immunity. I don’t think that’s correct.
Trump's motion to dismiss:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148.74.0_1.pdf
Although Fitzgerald concerned civil liability, the exact same, if not more elevated, concerns apply to potential criminal prosecutions, mandating the same absolute immunity. Vertical
and horizontal separation of powers simply cannot permit local, state, or subsequent federal officials to constrain the President’s exercise of executive judgment through threats of criminal prosecution.
So Trump claims that provided he's exercising executive judgment, he has absolute immunity.
The Meeting of the Right Rightist Minds will now come to Odor!
Years ago by now, Our Dear Leader announced to us, that He may commit murder in broad daylight, and we shall still support Him! So He Has Commanded, and So Must Shit be Done!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/24/donald-trump-says-he-could-shoot-somebody-and-still-not-lose-voters
And now, oh ye Faithful of the Republican Church, Shit Has Become Known Unto us, that Shit is also in His Power and Privilege Ass Well, to murder the USA Constitution in broad daylight. Thus He Has Spoken, and Thus Must Shit Be Done! Thou shalt Render Unto Trump, and simply REND the USA Constitution, and wipe thine wise asses with shit! Do NOT render unto some moldering old scrap of bathroom tissue! Lest we be called fools, or worse!
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html
Proud Boys, STAND with TRUMP, and stand by! And if ye don’t agree 110%, then we don’t need you polluting our world, because all who disagree with us in ANY way are LEFTISTS!!!
There, I think that’s a wrap! I’ve covered shit ALL! You can take the rest of the day off now.
(You’re welcome!)
LOL that was funny
Well, at least we can take comfort in the thought that the very non-partisan DC Circuit is the only place the new border bill will allow any adjudication.
WHERE is Sidney when Trump NEEEEEEDS Her?!?!? Both she AND Spermy Daniels have ABANDONED Dear Leader in His Hour of NEEEED!!!!
Enlightened Ones, AKA Light-Bearers Trumpaloos, say (in contravention of THOUSANDS of years of traditional practice) that LYING IN COURT (AKA perjury) should be CELEBRATED instead of punished!
https://reason.com/2023/10/20/how-sidney-powells-plea-deal-could-hurt-trump-in-the-georgia-racketeering-case/
https://reason.com/2022/02/11/sidney-powell-disowns-her-kraken-saying-she-is-not-responsible-for-her-phony-story-of-a-stolen-election/ (Yet another Powell article)
https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/
Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory
Which particular lies are you wanting to hear and believe today, hyper-partisan Wonder Children?
WHY do you evil people love it SOOOOO much when lawyers LIE in court? Is it the lawyers that You love, the lies, or both?
Conspiracy theories or cunt-spermacy theories; which appeal to ye the MOISTEST?!?!? And twat does Spermy Daniels say about tit all? Are Ye Perfectly titillated yet?
Spermy Daniels for Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer’s new VEEP!!! Government Almighty KNOWS that The TrumptatorShit will need MANY-MANY (affordable) criminal defense lawyers, and Spermy Daniels can attract MANY “Pro Boner” lawyers!!!
Every time I read "Spermy Daniels" I just laugh. So perfect.
Should have known from the first 2 posts youre an idiot. This confirms it.
Hey JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer, develop a sense of humor... Breathe some nitrous oxide if need be... And then read the following: Spermy Daniels... Spermy Daniels... Spermy Daniels... Spermy Daniels... Spermy Daniels... SPERMY DANIELS, May The TrumptatorShit Bless Our Sacred Queen, in a Glaze of Vaseline!!!! Twat a scene, twat a scene!!!!
From the decision:
Former President Trump moved to dismiss the Indictment and the district court denied his motion. Today, we affirm the denial. For the purpose of this criminal case, former President Trump has become citizen Trump, with all of the defenses of any other criminal defendant. But any executive immunity that may have protected him while he served as President no longer protects him against this prosecution.
Basically this 3 panel court has stated presidential immunity no longer exists even if it is an official act of the president, essentially neutering presidential immunity. This is the same judicial branch that created their own immunity even regarding corruption of the court with their decisions.
They try to then make this a unique situation.
He allegedly injected himself into a process in which the President has no role — the counting and certifying of the Electoral College votes — thereby undermining constitutionally established procedures and the will of the Congress.
So to get around this the claim is the executive has no role in federal elections. Easily broken by the following 3 questions.
1) Does the DoJ or FBI investigate federal elections?
The answer is clearly yes. They do so all the time. Both pre and post elections. New Jersey just had the FBI involved in an investigation into ballot harvesting. The DoJ Civil Rights division has sued over maps dozens of times.
2) Is the DoJ/FBI part of the executive?
Yes
3) is the president head of the executive?
Again yes.
So by any simple construction the court can not declare election issues to not involve the Executivr Branch as practiced and not have it fall under the wide umbrella of official duties. Which is a point Trumps legal team cited for them:
To ensure the President may serve unhesitatingly, without fear that his political opponents may one day prosecute him for decisions they dislike, the law provides absolute immunity “for acts within the ‘outer perimeter’ of [the President’s] official responsibility.” Nixon v. Fitzgerald 457 U.S. 731, 756 (1982) (quoting Barr v. Matteo, 360 U.S. 564, 575 (1959) (plurality opinion)).
Note. The DoJ nor the courts defended their actions with prior actions, only Trumps defense did.
Now the primary charge is:
(1) conspiracy to defraud the United States by overturning the election results, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371;
The evidence used is of Trump giving speeches or petitioning the courts. A right we all have. Yet they want to state the utilization of rights to be a conspiracy. Which is insane, but predictable from the left. And yes the D.C. circuit is a left leaning court.
Quite a few analysts have called the decision the D.C. Circuit begging for USSC review. One of the examples given is normally a 45 day window to appeal for en banc but this court gave Trump 6 entire days to appeal to en banc or the USSC which seems to be politically motivated. Remember the Circuit agreed with the DoJ to try to skip appellate review to quicken the pace of the trial.
Of course the usual TDS sufferers here will continue to cheer ignoring how many norms are being violated on the pursuit of Trump.
This did not happen. "Basically this 3 panel court has stated presidential immunity no longer exists even if it is an official act of the president, essentially neutering presidential immunity." Read the ruling.
I mean I quoted from the ruling retard.
I mean, you quoted the Supreme Court itself in its Nixon opinion. You do not get higher than that.
To be fair. That was from trumps filings. But yeah. They actually cited precedent.
"Nuh UNH!"
"He allegedly injected himself into a process in which the President has no role — the counting and certifying of the Electoral College votes — thereby undermining constitutionally established procedures and the will of the Congress."
They sorta take a position on the merits of the charges without taking a position on the merits of the charges by deciding that the president has no role. Seems ripe for review.
Yeah, that seems like a question for a different process. If they had rules that immunity DOES exist, it then goes back to lower courts to distinguish between what falls into the official capacity of the President and the private acts of the individual. Which then is likely subject to appeal.
They’re trying to say both that the immunity doesn’t exist, but even it does, this wouldn’t qualify, which is going beyond the current question, imo. Ultimately, I do expect the Supreme Court to find that some immunity exists, even though I think it’s not going to be sufficient to get this case dismissed.
A few of the guys I follow are saying this is such a sloppily written opinion it was the D.C. circuit begging for USSC review. So many inconsistencies like this.
is justifying the idiocy of the DC Circuit for a paycheck as awful as I imagine?
Sullum is a true believer.
Sullum is one of the arguments I can't overcome in the debate on if post birth abortions should be legal
Has this court ever ruled man can be women?
I've always wanted a men's college club team to declare themselves female so they can move into an NCAA division and demand funding. Put title IX to the test.
I think it's a bad ruling. I haven't read the whole thing, but I'm skimming through and finding them citing examples of cases where the courts found Presidential actions unconstitutional-meaning, they've been allowed to judge the President's official acts.
But what's obviously missing is that, in previous case where the President has acted unconstitutionally, he has, definitionally, broken the law with his actions. The same thing happens if Congress writes a law that violates the constitution-they're acting unlawfully. What has never happened is that a President has been criminally charged for official acts in his presidency, even though previous courts have seemingly found Presidents in violation of the law. There's some implication of criminal immunity there.
They tried to use the example of Clinton striking a deal to avoid prosecution for perjury as he left office, but Clinton responding in a hearing about his improper relations with an intern is only extremely tenuously an "official" act of the Presidency. So it's a bit of a punt.
I will say that I think Sauer, Trump's lawyer, could have argued this much better. I think he failed to confidently answer the concerns of this panel which were already going to be predisposed against his side. He tried to reframe the "What if the president calls in seal team 6" question instead of just taking it head-on and saying "The President has to be impeached before his official actions can carry criminal penalties." That was the core of his argument.
The court focusing on the limiting factor for extreme examples was pretty ridiculous. They didn't ask the DoJ lawyers at what line an official act is no longer an official act which would be the same requirement in the other direction.
The DC Court is again being a LEFTIST DEMOCRAT RUN court. The fact is that NO STATE, NO CITY, NO FEDERAL DISTRICT has any authority to act against any action taken by a sitting President. That by CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATIONS is the sole authority of Joint Congress and must be done by IMPEACHMENT.
First, articles of impeachment must be filed, then prosecuted and impeachment must be upheld. Then and only then can PROSECUTION take place for any action as President. And must be done in FEDERAL COURTS, not state courts.
Any Federal Court that does NOT throw out any charge made against any President by any state actor needs to be disrobed and thrown PERMANENTLY banned as an attorney. There is ONLY ONE WAY to prosecute a sitting president or ex-president for any action as president. That is IMPEACHEMENT!
The court says the clause makes clear exactly the opposite: that impeachment and criminal prosecution are unrelated.
That’s definitely the positive of the dc appeals court. It’s never truly been tested, so it’s going to be up to SCOTUS to actually address this question.
More all caps required...
Legal arguments aside what kind of fucking losers support a guy that says I can do whatever I want?!? ALL of his TDS goose steppers would be much happier in places like North Korea.
I’d you want to understand, you need to realize that his supporters view this as entirely a political prosecution by people made at the President doing legal things that his political enemies disliked. I don’t think most of them believe the President is above the law, just that he needs to surmount certain political thresholds first.
I can certainly understand WHY people on the left think he committed a crime, I just strongly disagree. It might be good if you understood the other side of it.
He doesn't want to understand. He wants to throw invectives to justify his support of political prosecutions of his enemies.
From what I've seen, the whole indictment is about whining about a stolen election. That's how Trump's detracters describe it. None of the media outlets are saying it's about perjury or bribery or forgery.
Couldn't Clinton be tried for whining about a stolen election?
She (as well as Adam Schiff and Robert Mueller) could, if John Durham used relied on “novel applications of criminal laws to unprecedented circumstances”. However, he still played by the old rules.
There were acts of perjury and forgery committed to further the whole "Trump Colluded with the Russians®™ to Steal the 2016 Election" propaganda campaign. Durham did not find sufficient evidence of her personal involvement in those acts of forgery and perjury.
Do you think it important to understand the minds of those supporting the prosecution? This country prides itself on the peaceful transfer of power. When a person tries to hold onto that power people have a right to be upset and demand consequences. Trump could have stepped back, went to Mar a Lago played golf and sulked, but he did not do that he tried to overturn an election. Why is it necessary to understand Trump supporters that refuse to understand the rest of people.
The Cunt®™ (legally known as Hillary Rodham Clinton) tried to overturn the 2016 election.
https://mtracey.medium.com/the-most-predictable-election-fraud-backlash-ever-4187ba31d430
As we know, the Cunt®™ Campaign hid the source of the funding of the Steele dossier and admitted to it, paying a fine to the Federal Elections Commission.
The Cunt®™ wanted the CIA to brief the electors ("with the implication for what should be done with that “briefing” information too obvious to need stating outright") , and to aggravate this already unethical act, she wanted the CIA to brief them with forged evidence her campaign paid for in secret!
Trump is entitled to give payback!
There is massive difference between people tweeting about how the electors should change their votes and trying to actually replace the electors with your own supporters or coercing governors to lie about the number of votes they received in that state. Seems like there's actually evidence of that, whereas there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
None of what you described is a crime.
governors to lie about the number of votes they received in that state.
Here is what annoys me about you ignorant types. The transcript of the call is available. You could actually read it and save yourselves tons of embarrassment. You choose not to, repeating lies yourself.
On the call he discusses the illegal votes that various groups identified. Such as out of state votes and voters who voted in the wrong district. This is against GA election laws.
At no point does he say to lie about the votes or manufacture votes. His team have the Ga SoS over 30k questionable illegal votes. They declined to investigate.
A few minutes of research would stop you from proving your ignorance. Ga has admitted to both double voters and voters who voted illegally in the wrong district. They simply chose not to prosecute.
But, but, but, he said FiNd mE tHe 11,000 VoTeS. I don't need to read the transcript and figure out what that meant, it already confims my hatred of OrangeManBad.
/sarcasm, if it wasn't obvious
Do you think it important to understand the minds of those supporting the prosecution?
I mean, I do understand their arguments, I’ve never stated otherwise I just disagree.
When a person tries to hold onto that power people have a right to be upset and demand consequences.
People absolutely have a right to be upset and to have their voices heard. You don’t have an inherent right to punish someone else who didn’t aggress, who didn’t violate the law. You can’t demand you neighbor lose his house because he voted for the wrong candidate, no matter how much it may upset you.
You’ve got to allege actions that are against the law, but the allegations are all things that Trump seemingly within Trump’s rights. And that isn’t something you can just put to a jury because the facts are largely undisputed; it’s a question of the law and rights, which are questions we generally leave to judges and legislatures. Juries determine facts, not law.
John Durham only sought prosecutions against those whose acts violated clearly established law, and which there was sufficient supporting evidence. Sure, he could have used “novel applications of criminal laws to unprecedented circumstances” to go after Robert Mueller, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and Adam Schiff. But he was playing by the old rules.
Well, you're in the running to be a grey box. You've been stupid on a few issues and I haven't seen you behave in a civil manner.
I dunno ......... What kind of F'En losers support a party who DOES whatever they want contrary to the very definition of the USA (the US Constitution).
So, 99% of voters?
Is this a Sarc sock? I've only ever seen Sarc try to turn around the term TDS by referring to Trumps supporters as "Trump's Deranged Supporters." Perhaps this "novel application" of TDS is popular among Dems, and Sarc just copied it. Then again, Sarc seemed so proud of his new definition of what TDS stands for, that I guessed he coined it. Now freedomwriter is using it that way.
As wrong as Trump clearly was, the argument is that he felt he was doing his duty as president to assure the election wasn’t stolen (e.g. a fair election). It was fair, don’t get me wrong.
I just don’t think anyone, including the courts, can read the guy’s mind or know what he was truly thinking. You have someone close to him say he said he lost, but you also have someone close to him say he said he won.
The court got it right. The argument by tRump is awful.
You can’t be put on trial for doing your duty as an elected official. You can be sued, but that’s a different matter.
I’m not interested in defending tRump. He’s a bad orange man, after all. I am interested in defending the law, from lawfare and biased rulings and setting bad precedents.
It’s not going to be a good country to be part of if Republicans find friendly venues to put Democrat presidents on trial on trumped up charges, and vice-versa.
There are other compelling reasons for the courts to dismiss the indictment.
But they were not the subject of this interlucotory appeal, so the Court had no occasion to consider them.
It wasn't fair at all. The Democrats obviously ballot suffed the swing states. There's video of people literally stuffing ballots in the boxes!
And people think that SCOTUS is politicized. The DC Superior Court is reliably Democratic.
I will repeat a comment I made on the Ethics Alarms blog.
https://ethicsalarms.com/2024/02/06/ethics-quote-of-the-month-d-c-circuit-court-of-appeals/#comment-862639
Criminal defense attorneys have a lot more legal and ethical leeway than prosecutors to make creative interpretations of the law, to make novel arguments for unprecedented circumstances. it is up to courts to reject outlandish interpretations.
There are plenty of other reasons that the courts must dismiss these indictment (qualified immunity, rule of lenity, First Amendment, and possibly others) But for reasons I find compelling, courts do not adjudicate questions not before them.
The state should always be forced into clear violations of law instead of playing the "who could we indict ghandi" game. They should avoid novel interpretation of law. The fact that Jack Smith has already been rebuked by the ussc unanimously should disqualify him from the outset. But he was hand picked for his ability to indict in violation of a defendants rights.
The irony is Jack Smith was protected from action for violating a defendants right while protected by prosecution immunity despite the rebuke at the USSC.
When was Jack Smith so rebuked?
Bob McDonnell conviction.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/27/483711311/supreme-court-throws-out-former-virginia-governor-bob-mcdonnells-conviction
McDonnell calling out Jack Smith after the ruling.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bob-mcdonnell-blasts-jack-smiths-partisan-overzealous-charging-in-high-profile-cases
So then Dubya nor Obama can't claim absolute immunity if they're tried for war crimes, if this ruling is upheld?
The ruling tried to wiggle away from that question by answering a unique case to Trumps actions.
Obama can literally be tried for murder. He assassinated an American citizen without trial, let alone a conviction.
Well go ahead and try to get an indictment? I am guessing you will not get it.
If Trump does win in November, under this ruling, he could theoretically get Obama indicted for murder. Do you not understand the implications here?
Welcome to the Banana Republic.
No one, including Trump and his lawyers, expected this case to go for Trump. This is a delaying tactic and it worked.
It’s unsettling how both the court and many journalists go about misrepresenting what should be a simple ruling they got wrong. Trump argued for immunity from being prosecuted for official acts.
The Constitution has a single, quicker remedy than the courts to keep presidents in check, and that’s impeachment, which can lead to criminal prosecution.
What Trump’s side argued was weaponizing the DOJ to go after former Presidents for official acts they disagree with as that would unnecessarily restrict executive power. Biden could be prosecuted as a murderer for droning the aid workers and their children in Afghanistan for what appeared to be a publicity-stunt, narrative changer.
In a sane world, the tougher hurdle for Trump would be then making the case that election challenges and inquiries, which he didn’t invent, were part of his official presidential duties against the argument that he was acting as a candidate.
That’s harder, but shouldn’t be too hard, because if we become a country where elections can’t be questioned or challenged, then we are no longer a free nation.
It seems the establishment wants to have their cake and eat it too by dragging out voting and vote-counting, beyond the standard day that’s best practices for free-and-fair elections, but then rush to certify the outcomes without any questioning or examination.
Troubling times, that’s for sure.
The First Amendment (which was not at issue in this appeal) is a compelling reason to dismiss the indictment.
“The Constitution has a single, quicker remedy than the courts,,,”
Jack Smith isn’t interested in that remedy (impeachment). He’s interested in cauterizing a wound that leaves him, and his DC psychos, endlessly tortured. He’s become Javert on steroids, and the obsession with getting Trump has nothing to do with legal or political protocols.
Smith is trying to extinguish an idea. And he’s trying to extinguish an idea which we know-and he and his crowd knows- can’t have a more powerful (or more threatening) force: yep, “an idea whose time has come.”
Well, say hello. The “time has come.” Again. Part two. Trump and MAGA are that dangerous and scary idea in action, redux. If you listen, that idea sounds a lot like individual sovereignty. It sounds a lot like consent of the governed. It sounds a lot like liberty and free enterprise, and… yikes!…even like tradition.
Whatever it is, it scares the fuck out of Smith and the rest of the crazies who put together their Sham sandwich of an indictment to try and stop it. They’re gonna’ need a bigger sandwich.
I think the Court of Appeals was probably basically right (although I have not read the opinion). However, reliance on Youngstown seems misplaced. It's true that the Court said that it could examine the legality of Truman's seizure of the steel mills, but the Court was not examining the question whether Truman could be criminally prosecuted for his unconstitutional act.
Such prosecution would immediately true-bill the mohammedan prohibitionist the DEA just declared the winner of El Salvador's election in violaton of constitutional term limits. Sullum skips the part where the law says anything you can get a court to say it says. Palito, KKKavanaugh, Gorbasuch, Long Dong and Mutterkreuz Mom said Teedy Roosevelt v. Race Suicide is settled stare decisis and Comstock laws overturn the LP's Roe decision. Stare Decisis is, of course, the entrenched Kleptocracy doctrine that a dependable looter judge is one that STAYS BOUGHT!
A science fiction story had it that war was outlawed lest politicians be injured, so soldiers competed in a sort of Murder Olympics instead. The prize was the governemnt fielding the last soldier alive was declared the winner and the soldier was declared IMMUNE from prosecution for violating any and all laws for life. I cannot recall the writer's name. Guess what the winning solder proceeded to do...
Presumably the soldier did whatever the writer had him do. Sounds like a good way to examine the worldview of that writer, but doesn’t seem at all relevant here.
BIG PICTURE.
Trump de-funded the EPA, exited the Paris Accord, halted massive-foreign invasion and built a stronger $.
The Nazi's will use every and any tool possible to eliminate anyone who tries to stop their Nazi-Growing initiatives even if it's running around yelling about something they have done over and over and over again. (i.e. CHAZ, Interrupting proceedings, Claiming election fraud).
This is actually no different than the British trying to prosecute George Washington except the USA is so Nazi-Empire infested now it's more like Kim-Jong-Un (leader of the Workers' Party of Korea - funny how socialism is always the 'workers' party as avoiding 'work' required to *earn* is what socialism is all about) prosecuting a Bush.
Trump's Deranged Supporters don't trust elections or juries because they didn't go Trump's way, and now courts. What's the point in having a government?
And sarc rushes in to offer nothing of value yet again. By rushes in I mean comment on a near dead thread and demonstrate his ignorance and lack of principles because he only cares about state abuse against someone he hates.
My point was that one crybaby politician has single-handedly managed to get tens of millions of Americans to totally lose faith in the system and instead put all their faith into one man.
You're one of them.
You think "faith in the system" was lost because of Trump? When really Trump gave a speckle of hope for the USA against never-ending [Na]tional So[zi]alist empire building. I'd say "faith in the system" was entirely destroyed by UN-Constitutional (illegal) legislation mostly pitched by Democrats.
Think you pegged that one entirely contradictory.
Trump declared fraud before the votes were counted, and idiots like you still believe him.
No that was Biden who admitted to committing election fraud long before the voting ever happened. Trump had a massive in-person lead that got washed away by an UN-precedented count of contrasting mystery mail votes.
Thanks to him the two century plus tradition of peaceful transition of power that made this nation unique in the history of history is coming to an end, and you are taking part in its demise.
I'm sure Hillary shattered your faith too; no? What's the difference? Did you say illegal voting E.O. changes and unbelievable mystery mail votes to boot or some chicks "Russia ran Ads" cries?
No Trump didn't cause unbelievable mystery mail votes to come flowing in. The counts did that one all on their own. When the very excuse used to use mail voting was it matched In-Person its pretty obvious whatever happened wasn't legitimate.
I voted for Gary's Johnson in that election. What's the difference? She didn't actively try to conjure up votes to change the results and her minions didn't try to stop the certification of the election.
The heck if she didn’t. Her and her minions tried for YEARS to prosecute and unseat the sitting president. Heck. They still are trying to prosecute the guy.
There is zero doubt that the judicial system has been weaponized against Donald Trump. There is zero doubt that there is a double standard that is in play. This being said, I don't like Donald Trump and don't want him to be president.
I will not vote for him, however the greatest threat to our country and our "democracy" is not Donald Trump. The greatest threat is the people who have weaponized the judicial system. It is shocking just how low that they will go and how out in the open they are with their attacks.
It is amazing how biased the corporate media is and little focus is any on the abuse and distortion. The corporate media has been reduced to being a propaganda arm.
If the rules are applied equally, then Obama would be charged for murder of an American person and possibly 4 Americans. George Bush, Obama, and Clinton would be charged various war crimes. Biden would be charged with corruption and extortion.
I may dislike Donald Trump and have not and will not ever vote for him as president, however he is much more honorable than Joe Biden and the Anti-Trump elites.
If Joe Biden and the Anti-Trump elites think that by attacking Trump that they are winning supporters they are seriously delusional. With every attack, the evidence mounts that the problem is not Donald Trump, but with the people attacking him with seldom used and novel methods.