Why Frozen Pizza Is the Best Pizza
The best pizza isn't made in New York, Chicago, or New Haven. It's made on assembly lines.
Debates about pizza are a lot like debates about religion, or politics, or monetary policy: There are a lot of strongly held beliefs, but very little is ever truly resolved.
Yet if one were to make a list of candidates for the best pizza in New York City—which, with apologies to Chicago, Detroit, and New Haven, is a reasonable proxy for the best pizza in America—then Di Fara Pizza would almost certainly make the cut.
Di Fara is something of a legend among pizza enthusiasts. In 2009, The New York Times called it "one of the most acclaimed and sought-after pizza shops in New York City." The shop has repeatedly won contests for best pizza in New York and has at times been overrun by bustling crowds and long lines. A slice of Di Fara isn't just a piece of pizza; it's a tradition, a public ritual, a foodie culture event.
Di Fara is located on Avenue J in a heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood of Brooklyn called Midwood. Taking the subway from Manhattan takes the better part of an hour, and when you arrive, you encounter a shop that has been open since 1965 and looks the part: Outside, there's a large, heavily weathered sign advertising "PIZZA" and "ITALIAN HEROS," though most of the place's nonpizza items were discontinued long ago. Inside, Di Fara is what one might politely call unassuming—or, less politely, dilapidated.
After you order a slice, it takes about five minutes to heat it up in one of the shop's gas-powered metal ovens. The slice also looks unassuming. There is nothing on the plate or in the shop to visibly signal this is trendy food, sought after by connoisseurs. There is no pretense in the presentation of the product, which is served on a paper plate and a tear of tinfoil. Aside from a slightly elevated price of $5, there is little to indicate this slice is all that different from any of the other hundreds or thousands of slices of pizza one could eat in the greater New York area.
Instead, it is simply, casually, almost indifferently excellent, an edible lesson in pizza perfection. The cheesy top is bubbly and gently browned; the not-too-sweet sauce tastes like summer-fresh tomatoes; the crust is crackly and buttery, with the hint of warm softness one can obtain only from freshly heated bread.
Di Fara was founded by Domenico DeMarco, an Italian immigrant who passed away in 2022. When he died, New York Times restaurant critic Pete Wells described him as "a living link between the cooking of Southern Italy, where he was born in 1936, and New York City's corner-slice culture." DeMarco was famously fussy about ingredients, and the results are apparent in every astounding bite.
A slice from Di Fara simply tastes better than I ever imagined pizza could. Months later, I can still recall the sublime balance of flavors, the light and crispy texture. I can say with certainty it is the single most delicious, most satisfying piece of pizza I have ever had.
But Di Fara does not make the best pizza in America. Nor does any other celebrated pizza shop in New York or elsewhere. Not even Chicago.
The best pizza in America doesn't come from an oven in Brooklyn or some other cult foodie mecca, where it was fastidiously handmade by some aging artisan. It comes from the freezer case at your local grocery store, where it arrived on a semitruck after being constructed on an assembly line at a nondescript factory in the middle of the country.
The best pizza in America is made by Red Baron, a catchall mass-market brand owned by the frozen-food megacorporation Schwan's. Red Baron makes frozen pizza with a variety of toppings and in an array of styles, from Thin & Crispy to Classic Crust to Deep Dish, because big corporations don't judge if you prefer Chicago-style. Personally, I'm fond of Brick Oven Pepperoni, but the particulars are largely irrelevant. Whereas a Di Fara slice tastes indifferently excellent, Red Baron tastes merely indifferent. The sauce is a little too spicy and a little too sweet, without the lively burst of tomato flavor. The cheese and pepperoni have a salty, fatty, processed edge to them. The crust is a little too crispy and a little too brittle. After you pull a Red Baron pizza out of the oven and take your first, slightly-too-hot bite, you are likely to react with a shrug and the thought: Sure, not bad! Judged strictly on its culinary merits—taste, texture, smell, visual appeal—Red Baron is vaguely competent at best. If you cook it properly, it can be reasonably enjoyable, especially in times of stress or exhaustion, but it is never memorable.
Red Baron's merits are not culinary, at least not in the usual sense. Its virtues have more to do with convenience, consistency, and price.
Red Baron is never great pizza, but it is never bad pizza either. It's also shockingly inexpensive: A whole pizza costs about the same as a single slice from Di Fara. Unlike a hot slice from Di Fara, which can only be found in a couple of locations in New York, Red Baron can be found in grocery stores practically anywhere in the country—and in household freezers anywhere in the country.
Red Baron is the best pizza not because it's the tastiest, but because it's cheap, abundant, and always there.
Red Baron—along with its many mass-market, corporate-produced, grocery-store-freezer-case contemporaries, such as DiGiorno—represents a kind of culinary miracle, the product of decades of technological innovation and industrial processes, as well as the complex cultural evolution of pizza itself, which began not as an artisanal delicacy but as a lowly, versatile, inexpensive street food for the poor.
Red Baron is not only the best pizza in America: It is, in at least one underappreciated way, the most authentic.
Pizza Freedom
Pizza as we know it originated as a regional street food in Naples, Italy. From the earliest recorded observations, it was a flexible, forgettable food, an on-the-go bite for lazzaroni, or day laborers.Because it was so adaptable, and because it was associated with a class of workers whose lives were unstructured and unplanned, pizza was also associated with a kind of live-as-thou-wilt lifestyle freedom.
In the mid-1830s, Alexandre Dumas, the French novelist behind books like The Three Musketeers, traveled to the Italian city, and several years later he published Sketches of Naples, a book about his experiences. Several long passages of the book are devoted to the lazzaroni and to one of their primary foods of choice, pizza.
"Other men have houses," wrote Dumas, "other men have villas, other men have palaces, the lazzarone has the world. The lazzarone has no master, the lazzarone is amenable to no laws, the lazzarone is above social exigencies; he sleeps when he is sleepy, he eats when he is hungry, he drinks when he is thirsty."
The lazarrone diet, in Dumas' telling, consisted primarily of two foods: watermelon in the summer, and in the winter a curious and deceptively complex dish called pizza. "At first sight," he wrote, "the pizza appears to be a simple dish, upon examination it proves to be compound. The pizza is prepared with bacon, with lard, with cheese, with tomatas, with fish."
The revolving selection of toppings wasn't just a nod to differing tastes; it was a marker of the city economy's health. "The price of the pizza rises and falls according to the abundance or scarcity of the year. When the fish-pizza sells at a half grain, the fishing has been good; when the oil-pizza sells at a grain, the yield of olives has been bad. The rate at which the pizza sells is, also, influenced by the greater or less degree of freshness; it will be easily understood that yesterday's pizza will not bring the same price as today's." Pizza, Dumas declared, was "the gastronomic thermometer of the market." (Even in its earliest incarnations, pizza had something in common with monetary policy.)
In the century after Dumas described pizza in Naples, pizza began to spread—first around Italy, and then to the shores of the U.S., following waves of Italian immigration. Lombardi's, often recognized as the first dedicated U.S. pizzeria, opened on Spring Street in Manhattan in 1905, selling pizzas for five cents; as always, it was a thermometer of the market. Other pizzerias soon followed, mostly in the New York area, and eventually beyond. Pizza was initially treated as an Italian specialty food, but even the earliest iterations were Americanized, adapted to domestic tastes and ingredients.
As Italian pizza began to take root in America in the early 1900s, another innovation was in the works: frozen food.
A man named Clarence Birdseye had begun experimenting with methods to rapidly freeze all sorts of food, with a focus on fish and vegetables, using methods designed to lock in fresh flavor. Some forms of frozen food already existed when Birdseye began his experiments, but they were slow frozen, resulting in mushy, flavorless food. They were considered so awful that New York passed a law that banned giving frozen food to prisoners. It also required stores to prominently note the presence of frozen foodstuffs in large lettering above their entryways.
Birdseye saw a different future for frozen food. As a young man he'd worked a series of jobs that took him to far-flung places—the untamed West of the early 1900s, the remote chill of Labrador, Canada—and on his journeys he always missed the taste of fresh food. Like many men of the era, he believed in the power of science and industry; he ended up with hundreds of patents to his name, many of which had nothing to do with food. Unlike many men of the era, he was obsessed with preparing food. His early letters were filled with recipes he'd developed using novel ingredients.
This combination of interests and experience combined in 1924, when Birdseye obtained a patent for a novel method of freezing fish, based heavily on a quick freezing method he'd learned from the Inuit while working in Canada. Some early freezing machines had existed as early as the mid-1800s, but Birdseye was the first to both grasp and develop such a product's commercial potential.
As Mark Kurlansky writes in his 2012 biography, Birdseye, many of the man's important innovations came not from one-off technological improvements but from the development and marketing of freezing infrastructure. He not only had to implement methods to store and transport frozen food; he had to convince skeptical grocery store owners and consumers that frozen food was in fact worthwhile. He lent expensive freezers to grocers for free so long as they carried his products. He staged elaborate dinners for investors, revealing only at the end that everything they'd eaten had been frozen. He was as much a marketer as an inventor.
At the heart of Birdseye's project was a belief in technological progress and the power of industrialization to improve the world. It was a fundamentally different worldview than the one shared by most elite consumers today, which elevates labor-intensive, relatively rare craft products. Understanding Birdseye's innovations, Kurlansky writes, means understanding that his worldview was shaped by an inescapable localism. "We need to grasp that people who are accustomed only to artisanal goods long for the industrial. It is only when the usual product is industrial that the artisanal is longed for."
The Frozen Pizza Revolution
So it was with pizza. In the years after World War II, pizza became a staple of American dining both out and at home. By the late 1950s, make-at-home pizza recipes were appearing in Betty Crocker cookbooks, still labeled as Italian specialties.
But pizza of the era was, by definition, artisanal, local, handmade, and labor-intensive. It tasted best when fresh from the oven, which meant you had to be pretty close to where it was cooked in order to enjoy it properly. The problem for pizza was much the same that Birdseye had identified for fish and vegetables: How could people enjoy fresh food without proximity to where it was produced?
Thanks in part to Birdseye's innovations, Americans in the postwar era had started buying freezers and refrigerators for their homes. Local entrepreneurs were the first to spot the opportunity: Like other food, pizza could be chilled and reheated at home. In June 1950, The New York Times described a Boston company selling refrigerated pizzas that could be warmed up in the oven; the cost, by this time, was 49 cents a pie. "The tangy pies have a bread-textured crust and are delightfully seasoned with oregano, thyme and a variety of spices," the Times reported, while recommending that consumers bake them longer than the packaging instructions recommend. Just two weeks after opening, the New York outpost of the company was already churning out 3,000 pizzas a day. Clearly this was an idea with promise.
Other producers sprang up around the country, often to great success: As a 2020 CNBC story on the history of frozen pizza notes, ads in Massachusetts touted frozen pizzas for just 33 cents—even then, everything was more expensive in New York—while the frozen and refrigerated pizza business boomed everywhere from Akron, Ohio, to Chicago.
True industrial production came to pizza in the early 1960s, thanks to a Minnesota couple named Jim and Rose Totino. In 1951, when the couple opened an Italian restaurant in Minneapolis, pizza was still enough of an unknown that Rose reportedly had to bake her bank's loan officer a pizza in order to get funding approved, according to an obituary in the Minneapolis Star Tribune. But the business expanded, and in 1962 the company started making frozen pizzas en masse in a factory in St. Louis Park, Minnesota, a short drive from Minneapolis.
By the early 1970s, their brand, Totino's, was the best-selling frozen pizza in the country. A magazine ad picturing Rose advertised "quality, variety and innovation" while touting such new products as "Pizza Slices" and "Microwave Pizza." In 1974, the company recorded $50 million in sales, and the couple sold their brand to Pillsbury for $20 million in 1975. The following year, Schwan's launched Red Baron, which would be marketed by a fleet of World War II–era stunt planes. By 2022 it would be the country's second-most-popular frozen brand, with more than $250 million in sales in the first four months of the year alone.
Even Bad Pizza
There is a saying about pizza: Pizza is like sex—even when it's bad, it's still pretty good. Serious foodies and sexual progressives (but I repeat myself) might disagree, with some cause.
But the old saw is at least directionally true. Even the worst pizza is usually not so awful, and the merely mediocre examples are, if considerably short of exquisite, often quite satisfying.
Red Baron pizza is far better than bad. At its best, it's a pleasantly tacky treat that's superior to its competition—that includes DiGiorno, the best-selling frozen pizza brand. When DiGiorno came to market in 1995, it was the first frozen pizza to offer a rising crust that expanded into soft, chewy pizza dough when cooked. This helped the brand compete against fresh-baked takeout and delivery pizzas, hence the brand's long-running slogan: It's not delivery. It's DiGiorno.
DiGiorno's rising crust pizza was a triumph of industrial innovation that launched the brand to the top of the frozen pizza sales charts. It was also a heavy, bready, crust-dominated pizza that could be enjoyable for a few bites but was simply too dense to truly enjoy after more than a slice. The sales figures say millions of frozen pizza fans disagree with me, but I find Red Baron superior for its balance of peppery sauce, molten cheese, and thin-but-not-too-crackly crust.
Red Baron's relative lightness makes it ideal when consumed late at night after a drink (or several) when your local delivery spot has closed for the evening. My favorite local pizzeria stops delivering around 10 p.m. on weeknights. Red Baron, in contrast, respects my night-owl tendencies; as long as I've got a box in my freezer, I can have a warm and crispy pie ready in about half an hour, regardless of the time.
Red Baron's around-the-clock availability is complemented by its almost absurdly low price point. Even in an expensive grocery market like Washington, D.C., a whole pepperoni pizza—which provides a little more than 1,300 calories—typically sells for roughly $7, and supermarket sales occasionally bring the cost down to half that. My favorite local delivery option starts at $22, and that's before add-on toppings, delivery, and tip. Red Baron might not taste quite as good, but it's a fraction of the cost.
Even as food inflation has skyrocketed since 2020, frozen pizzas have stayed affordable, leading to an 11 percent jump in overall frozen pizza sales in 2022, according to Restaurant Business. As in 17th century Naples, pizza remains a thermometer of the economy.
As for the taste and texture, Red Baron is a standout, at least among its peers—and not only according to me.
In July, Consumer Reports published superlatives for frozen pizzas that put Red Baron Classic at the very top, with an Editor's Choice award. "Red Baron is the crowd pleaser," the magazine declared. "You get the distinct taste of crust, sauce, and cheese in each bite." That might sound like a low bar: It's pizza that, uh, tastes more or less like pizza. But in the sprawling universe of frozen pies, it's more than enough to rise to the top.
That universe is almost comically vast. In October 2022, a Twitter user named Michael Bradley shared a video of the frozen pizza selection at a Woodman's grocery store in Wisconsin. The video lasted just a single minute, but as the camera strolled past case after case and aisle after aisle of frozen pizza, it seemed to go on practically forever, offering endless permutations of frozen crust, sauce, and cheese waiting to be reheated at home. The video, simply captioned "a frozen pizza section in Wisconsin," became enough of a viral sensation that it was featured on the Today show.
Frozen food has been with us for most of a century, and frozen pizza has been a staple for over 50 years. Yet even now, the sheer, silly abundance of the stuff remains enough to astound. The variety and expansiveness of a frozen pizza section in Wisconsin is literally awesome: It can provoke a kind of awe.
That abundance is what Red Baron represents. Red Baron is not, objectively, the single best pizza, period. This year, Pizza Today named a New Haven, Connecticut, pizzeria as the nation's top pizza joint. The best pizza I've ever had, based on a large but not completist sample, is a slice from Di Fara—but Di Fara is in New York, and I live in Washington, D.C. (And while Di Fara will ship frozen pizzas packed with dry ice to my door, they have nothing on the price and convenience of Red Baron.)
Meanwhile, Red Baron is never farther away than a short trip to the grocery store. Most of the time, it's in my freezer. That's why, for me and millions of others, it is frequently the best pizza that is reasonably affordable and available right now. It's not a bucket-list item for adventuresome foodies, but it is a tasty, filling, and cheap snack for today's lazzaroni: the working-class eater who owns little but has no masters and is amenable to no laws.
That sort of virtue, the fruit of industrialization and mass production, of consistency and affordability, is often overlooked in today's culture—in food especially, but in other goods as well. We live in an era of awesome abundance, of inexpensive availability, of good-enough stuff that is the best not because it's the most exquisite but because it's cheap and instantly available and sometimes even surprisingly good for the price. As the story of Clarence Birdseye reminds us, it is only because of that taken-for-granted abundance that we can fully appreciate the elevated excellence of the Di Faras of the world.
Ironically, Di Fara, too, was once considered something of a déclassé product by the pizza elites of the world. Di Fara heats single slices in gas-powered metal ovens that reach lower temperatures than the wood-fired, whole-pizza brick ovens that some pizza purists consider truly authentic. But over time, Di Fara won over the skeptics by demonstrating the delicate, delicious virtues of single-slice setups. The debate about the best pizza will never be resolved, but perhaps someday the industrially produced wonder that is Red Baron will finally make the list.
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People eat food for more reasons than supplying their bodies with crappy-tasting calories.
Frozen pizzas are cheap and freezer-tolerant because they are mediocre products that verge on bad, and vice versa. That is all. There's no need for thousands of words of obfuscation or apologia. If the Suderman-McArdle household's food standards have dropped so far that they encompass frozen pizza, that's for them to contemplate. (My family still occasionally makes Megan McArdle's recipe for pasta with fresh mozzarella and tomatoes, which I would eat before any frozen pizza, even though I would now cut back on the amount of cheese.)
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That article was absolutely insane. That frozen pizza has become ubiquitous doesn't make it any sort of triumph. In fact, it's one of many contributors to America's epidemic of obesity.
The biggest contributor to America’s epidemic of obesity is food stamps.
So by extension, you're claiming that only poor people are obese? Look again dear.
Didn’t claim that.
From a certain point of view, that's tremendous progress, too. For virtually all of human history, poor people's biggest problem with food was just getting enough to stay alive. We now live in such abundance that poor people have so much access to food, albeit not always high quality, that we're worried about them getting fat. If you could ask a medieval peasant which problem he'd rather have, I'm pretty sure how most would choose.
And we also dress like slobs, talk like idiots, and vote for dreadfully crude politicians.
What's your point, Karen?
As Wizard wrote, It does show a triumph. People had to struggle to find food (Yes, some still do). Frozen pizza shows the choices technology has given us. Like anything, just because people abuse it and become obesity, doesn't take anything away from that.
You also should complain about all different fruits and vegetables too since that is also a triumph
Are you saying this article was extra cheesy?
I think the editor should have tossed it, it’s not worth the dough they paid for it.
I think the writer may have been on the sauce while composing it.
TL;DR (well, not after he said Red Baron was the best.);
Godfather's Pizza was and is the best that I've ever ate. A literal Italian deep-dish pie filled to overflowing with meats, peppers, onions, and mushrooms, and garlicky enough to scare vampires in a 20 County radius!
And it's so damn big, you can feast on it for days! I miss the Godfather's in my hometown!
I liked Stoufers French bread pizza myself.
That's a good store-bought brand too. And now they have the retro 80s packaging to bring back fond memories of when it first came on the market, as well as fond memories of the catchy jingle.
TV Commercial - 1986 - Stouffer's Pizza - Help Yourself
https://youtu.be/38CCvqW3u6o?si=pngxFogfHgei8HxP
I did read the rest of the article later, on the premise that there is no arguing about tastes.
One thing Peter could have also pointed out is that Clarence Birdseye’s freezing as well as canning, vacuum sealing, and irradiation have all enabled us to have both the best of store-bought convenience and the customization that comes from artesan crafting.
I never settle with just what the frozen pizza offers. Instead I also buy extra hamburger, sausage, pepperoni, extra spaghetti or marinara sauce, extra Mozzarella, Parmesean, Romano, and Monterey Jack, and extra peppers, onions, and mushrooms, and extra spices, then add those onto the frozen pizza.
Sometimes I’ll get adventurous and buy Boboli pre-made pizza crusts or even frozen dough balls and make the whole thing from scratch. Or fold the dough over to make a homemade stromboli!
Peter could have also added that the pizza has spurred spin-offs such as pizza rolls, breakfast pizza with meat, eggs, gravy and cheese, Mexxican pizza, Lunchables with mini pizza components, and pizza-flavored potato chips.
All made possible by free minds and what’s left of free markets.
Ellio's for the win. Suderman has lost his mind.
This. I would have rather read a paean to McDonalds. Not because of its food but because it truly did force kitchens to become more sanitary. Especially overseas where traveler’s diarrhea used to be both universal and far more likely to be something like dysentery or cholera. I lived in and traveled around to countries when McD would first open there and you could see the impact almost immediately. From Europe to the Third World. At the lower level, food trucks and street vendors and hole-in-the-wall places visibly started cleaning their kitchens. Travelers had MUCH stronger guts then – but folks who really traveled also had frequent cholera vaccines. The third world/tropical/etc vaccine regimen for travelers has completely changed and esp for food/water borne illnesses. Much of that is public infrastructure changes as countries have gotten richer. But McDs honestly deserves tons of recognition for what it has done re food safety.
But FFS – that doesn’t mean their hamburgers are good.
That's a whole lot of words to say you don't shop at Costco.
Does Suderman know how pretentious everything he writes sounds?
Remember in the 90s, when pretentious leftists were worried about creeping American corporatism and global cultural hegemony?
Can you even be pretentious if you love Red Baron pizza?
Today we found out, didn't we;)
Wonder what kind of dog food he would have endorsed during the great depression for humans.
Science! Diet
Mighty Jack, from the makers of Mighty Dog and Hungry Jack!
🙂
😉
(Fast forward to 24:24--26:15)
MST3K - S03E14 - Mighty Jack
https://youtu.be/EX1K9XZdFyc?si=HI2d0FQRKcpgX7Bs
The insufferable part of being a hipster isn't the preference for obscurity; lots of perfectly sociable people have uncommon taste. It's the horrible need to tell everyone that their preferences are crap and that your own are the best. Mr. Suderman might as well have written an ode to PBR.
Once upon a time, Pabst actually made excellent beer. It took decades of corner cutting to degenerate into the barely drinkable swill of today. Frozen pizza, OTOH, has gotten vastly better in recent decades. Compared to what was available thirty years ago, it's strictly night and day. Modern pizza offers much better quality and vastly greater variety.
He’s being saucy trying to ham it up?
I mean frozen Hawaiian Pizza of any brand is obviously the best. Except Chicago deep dish versions.
Those who support Hawaiian pizza should be executed.
And Chicago pizza is the only good pizza, if you can pick up a slice with one hand, then why bother
I say good day sir.
"Those who support Hawaiian pizza should be executed."
Looks like the good reverend has a bullet saved for me.
For once, you and I are on the same page.
If you can't pick up your pizza slice with one hand, it's not pizza.
Pizza requires no fork to eat it.
Godfather's was so thick, you needed a trowel to separate the pieces and eating it just with hands would be at the peril of your wardrobe.
Now, now. It's just not the best with regular pizza sauce. Make it with a plain white cheese pie and then you've got something!
Newman’s Own tends to do well in frozen pizza blind taste tests though I’m not sure how visually unimpaired folks like it.
Referring to pineapple on top of cheese bread as pizza is like calling Taco Bell Mexican cuisine.
Not sure if they have del taco up there. Know you don't have most of the Arizona drive through places. But that is the only palatable national Mexican food chain.
But I have so many mom and pop drive through I never go to the chains.
Yo quiero chili rellenos.
There are some “Mexican cuisine” places here but that would be like a seafood restaurant in flyover country. Mainahs like using puns; one Mexican food place is called El El Frijoles. There is a Chinese restaurant called Chow Maine.
Mexican food is very diverse. Sonoran has more sea food. Tex mex is shit. Chihuahua style quinine is more beef.
I prefer Sonoran style as it is what I grew up on.
You think Mexicans can make a Cuban?
Definitely. Everyone knows what a Cuban sandwich is.
Ahem, not everyone .
He does now! Food changed!
Pollos Loco is good. But I don’t think they’re national. They haven’t made it to eastern Washington yet.
I'm still waiting for Los Pollos Hermanos to make it to my town.
We can always dream.
I'm sure they're speeding your way.
The article was peppered with smugness.
Maybe he likes his toppings sloppy.
Suderman is free to be pretentious, and share his opinions, and I appreciate his point of view, though I often find it failing in libertarian thinking, but not this article. My pizza preferences will remain with me, appreciate the freedom to choose and grant that to others, as any good libertarian would.
Kurlansky: "We need to grasp that people who are accustomed only to artisanal goods long for the industrial. It is only when the usual product is industrial that the artisanal is longed for."
I slightly disagree with Kurlansky. IMHO people like good food, and when the artisanal doesn't deliver while the industrial does, that gives them more choices. The industrial provides competition to the artisanal leading to the artisanal working harder to provide other preferred choices. One way I describe libertarians comes to mind (out of about 5 ways I have): Libertarians want you to have more choices whether you want it or not. Thank God, or not depending on your preference.
I'll add, if you visit other countries, I recommend you visit the local grocers. Free countries offer far more choices: you can count pizza options, but I recommend you count jam/jelly options - I believe they seriously outnumber pizza choices, partly because they take less shelf space and don't require refrigeration.
Why Frozen Pizza Is the Best Pizza
Ctrl+F "malnati": 0 results.
Hey Suderman, go fuck yourself.
No Giordano's, no Malnati's, no Buddy's, hell, even Dominos and Pizza Hut are better than most frozen pizzas.
Even applying Suderman's own criteria, Domino's goes to toe-to-toe with any frozen brand on price, consistency, and ubiquitous availability, while also tasting better.
And much easier for the truly inept.
Bonus question: which is more inconvenient, frozen pizza that you have to remember to buy ahead of time and then prepare, or Dominos that you have to order?
Depends if you have to have contact with the Dominos driver. Just leave it at my door!
I haven't had Dominos in forever. Mario's is cheap and ok. Or I just order a pizza on the way home.
Mine was less about preference and more about the fact that the article was written backwards from one particular(ly narrow) point of view.
https://twitter.com/Babygravy9/status/1728407283908964782?t=mZHHQex_bBUhny5dhCVgpQ&s=19
The mostly peaceful riots of 2020 were the most spectacular example of anarcho-tyranny at work in the US in recent years, and the closest thing to a full-scale colour revolution that's taken place on American soil.
Never forget that the riots took place at a time of unprecedented social restrictions, when people were confined to their homes, when children weren't allowed to go to school, and when the middle classes -- the millions of small business owners across the nation -- were being bled dry and mega corporations like Amazon were posting record profits. The social restrictions were enforced ruthlessly if you were protesting against them, but not if you wanted to loot and burn down white-owned small business.
And why was that? Because the mostly peaceful riots served to grease the skids on a broader transfer of property, wealth and power away from the dwindling white middle classes to the new privileged client class of "people of colour". The mostly peaceful riots inaugurated the formal transformation of American into a nation founded not on the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, but radical redistribution, as a means of atoning for the original sin of slavery.
[Link]
Yawn
The dummy Charlie doesn’t understand.
Or he does and actually prefers state control.
Your pizzagate guy peddled files.
Didn’t get enough sleep last night comrade?
In the century after Dumas described pizza in Naples, pizza began to spread—first around Italy, and then to the shores of the U.S., following waves of Italian immigration.
Those goddamn migrants, importing their inferior culture!
Unlike most of the world, Italy has given us most of the foundation of western civilization.
They get a pass.
Immigrants from Italy *at the time*, late 19th/early 20th century, were treated much like the immigration restrictionists of today treat the migrants from Central America. They were importing an inferior culture (Catholicism! gasp!), undercutting native labor, refused to assimilate by living in segregated communities, and otherwise contaminating the purity of America's bodily fluids. And yet the Republic did not fall, and we got pizza.
So assimilation worked?
That wasn't the point you wanted to make.
I am totally fine with assimilation. I am totally fine if migrants don't want to assimilate. I am totally fine with migrants making whatever free choice that they want to make so long as there is no NAP violation. I am mocking your tribe's stupid arguments, which are the same tired arguments that have been made for 100+ years now (and have been shown to be false for 100+ years), that we can't have more migrants in the country because of their "inferior culture".
The most important ingredient in a melting pot is heat.
Assimilation is impossible without it. If that heat must be racism, then so be it.
Jeff is being dishonest and conflating illegal and legal immigration again.
The Italian immigrants weren't exempt from wage laws and sustained by a taxpayer funded social safety net like the serfs being imported from Central America.
I am totally fine with migrants making whatever free choice that they want to make so long as there is no NAP violation.
But the NAP is being violated: I and many others are forced to pay for the government services of the low skill migrants you want to bring into the country.
we can’t have more migrants in the country because of their “inferior culture”
That is a strawman: people are not objecting to unskilled mass migration because of "inferior culture" but because it violates the NAP and makes America poorer.
But the NAP is being violated: I and many others are forced to pay for the government services of the low skill migrants you want to bring into the country.
If government services provided to others constitute a violation of the NAP, then by your standard, everything that the government does is a violation of the NAP. Are you an anarchist?
Furthermore, if government services provided to others constitute a violation of the NAP, then native-born citizens are violating the NAP *waaaaay more* than immigrants do, because they consume far more services than immigrants do. So why not address the much larger problem? Why focus on the supposed NAP violations of the immigrants?
If government services provided to others constitute a violation of the NAP, then by your standard, everything that the government does is a violation of the NAP. Are you an anarchist?
I'm a minarchist/libertarian.
So why not address the much larger problem? Why focus on the supposed NAP violations of the immigrants?
Under current law, we can expel illegal migrants and exclude low skilled workers from immigration; all we need to do is enforce that law. This is what Americans want anyway.
At the same time, of course, we should also work towards shrinking the size of government and eliminating the social welfare state, but that is much harder.
I’m a minarchist/libertarian.
So you accept the necessity of having a limited state. Therefore you accept the necessity of having some taxation to fund that state. Yes? So it cannot possibly be that *all* of these government services are 'violations of the NAP'. Some are, and some aren't, even by your standards. So, which are, and which aren't, by your estimation?
So you accept the necessity of having a limited state. Therefore you accept the necessity of having some taxation to fund that state. Yes?
No, not at all. There are many ways of funding a state that do not violate the NAP
Jesus fucking Christ dude, is there some minimal daily allowance of cost free virtue signaling that you must perform to continue breathing?
Yeah, I know. Any limits at all is “draconian”. Fuck off.
people are not objecting to unskilled mass migration because of “inferior culture”
oh yes they are. read some of the comments around here sometime
You acknowledge that “inferior culture” with every post by starting on the premise that they cannot improve their lives in their country of origin. You know, where their culture is dominant?
I mean, what is “they do the jobs we don’t want” if not a condescending reference to their inferiority. Hmmm?
The “class struggle” failed for the marxists,
“Racism “ is working well for them though.
Gee, people complain here all the time that they are prevented from advancement in their own lives because of rules and regulations that the government imposes upon them. Is that because of "inferior American culture"? Or is that because of a government which no longer listens to what people want?
Yes. Has been repeatedly pointed out before and is even readily demonstrable in the history of the tax code, if you allowed every last native a tax break for every immigrant into the country, 330M immigrants would appear practically overnight.
The native stance has always been “Stop taxing me and/or spending my money and I don’t care about immigration.” to which the rejoinder has consistently been “No.”
They don't want immigration. They want slaves to enforce their social order.
"Immigrants from Italy *at the time*, late 19th/early 20th century, were treated much like the immigration restrictionists of today treat the migrants from Central America."
Here Creamjeff again pretends that the issue isn't illegal immigration but immigration.
Immigrants from Italy *at the time*, late 19th/early 20th century, were treated much like the immigration restrictionists of today treat the migrants from Central America.
At the time, the US didn't have a social safety net and government expenditures were 5% of GDP.
And yet the Republic did not fall
The late 19th/early 20th century was the start of the rise of progressivism, undermining of the US Constitution by SCOTUS, massive economic problems, and a slide into fascism under FDR. Yes, the Republic did fall.
And a major argument can be made that progressive footholds wouldn't have gotten off the ground without a sizeable Catholic wave of immigrants.
Yes: right after large waves of immigrants from the home of fascism (Germany, Italy), the US became literally a lot more fascist and totalitarian.
The late 19th/early 20th century was the start of the rise of progressivism,
Do you know where progressivism was most popular in the US at that time? It wasn't in the big industrial cities in the Northeast where most of the immigrants were. It was in the Midwest, where the farmers and the Real Muricans were. William Jennings Bryan was from Nebraska after all. Blaming progressivism on immigrants is historically inaccurate.
Yes, the Republic did fall.
Empirically, you are wrong.
Of course it was the big industrial cities:
In the early 20th century, support for progressive policies was strongest in urban areas, particularly in cities in the Northeast and Midwest of the United States. Progressivism gained traction as a political and social movement during this period, and it was often associated with reform efforts aimed at addressing various social and economic issues, such as labor rights, women's suffrage, and regulation of big businesses.
Also aimed at eugenics, and sterilizing/aborting minorities and the lower economic classes. Things really haven't changed much.
The Roman Republic fell in 27 BC, yet Rome continued on as an empire for centuries.
The US Republic, the legal and political system that the US was founded on, ended in the early 20th century. We now live in a centralized, militarized progressive social welfare state.
Empirically, I'm right.
When Rome burned, Nero fiddled.
As the US burns, Biden diddled.
And Jeffy consumes 55 gallon drum after 55 gallon drum of Ben & Jerry’s.
As a snack
Dear Ben & Jerry’s,
I want to nom nom nom nominate you as the greatest food company. You trum…biden all the rest. I really like how you called out European colonialism in the Americas but smugly refused to cede your Vermont facility that is located on stolen Abanaki land. Tweet the change you want to see!
I am planning to visit for a factory tour; do you have motorized scooters? Also, could I swim in one of the vats? I prefer you make Chunky Monkey that day.
- Your reliable customer
LOL, Chumby!
The pizza is welcome. The Vatican city-state is not.
Interestingly enough - American pizza has nothing in common with Italian pizza and most of the 'traditional' Italian foods are American in origin.
Because Italian immigrants modified Italian cuisine for American audiences.
They, like any other immigrant group, modified their cuisine due to what’s available locally, regardless of the audience. There’s a reason Creole cuisine in New Orleans is just French cuisine using different ingredients.
No, because they used their increased prosperity to modify traditional Italian food *to be better* for their own tastes.
And people will still cry "Cultural appropriation."
Evwrybody knows the best pizza comes from food trucks.
It certainly is the most "libertarian".
I knew you would weigh in on this subject. Pretty heavy commentary. And you made some real plus sized statements.
I've eaten pizza in Naples Italy. It isn't what we call pizza in the US.
The video lasted just a single minute, but as the camera strolled past case after case and aisle after aisle of frozen pizza, it seemed to go on practically forever, offering endless permutations of frozen crust, sauce, and cheese waiting to be reheated at home.
Uh-oh. No one tell Bernie Sanders about this.
Why be concerned? You likely cleaned them out long before he could get there.
Since Jeff joined early....
Mohammed Hijab
@mohammed_hijab
In reality, the term "terrorism" is a neo-colonial social construct which aims to serve the Western powers and their allies.
As good an argument as jeff has ever made.
More proof that Jesse doesn't actually read what I write and is only responding to the figments of imagination in his head.
Not once have I ever tried to excuse terrorism as a "neo-colonial social construct". I don't even know what that is.
It is his tribe that is constantly trying to excuse the terrorism that emanates from his tribe - the Charlottesville march, the racist/bigoted shootings in El Paso, Buffalo, Denver, elsewhere - as "not real terrorism" or "not my fault" or "oh it's actually Antifa false flag" or some other crap like that. They are quick to apply collective guilt to others but they do not like it when that same standard is applied to them.
LOL
the Charlottesville march
What a abysmal standard you have for terrorism.
But one overweight agitator died! Have you no empathy?
BLM riots killed 2 dozen people. Capitol Police killed 2 during J6. But not terrorism.
Even the recent palestine marches have been more violent than Charlottesville. Not terrorism.
https://twitter.com/VICE/status/1728258611460083768?t=clceLJBH8S7-wqSUs3mfSw&s=19
100 Ways White People Can Make Life Less Frustrating For People of Color
[Link]
No person owes another person anything. Life is not meant to be comfortable. You always have to strive at something. Complacency is the most evil belief of the left. That's why they fight and protest so much because they have become complacent with their own lives.
Nuh-uh. All advanced people know that just by drawing breath you are entitled to all sorts of stuff from others, regardless of your personal effort or productivity.
Nor does guilt pass down across generations, or from individuals to groups. If your grandfather killed my grandfather, you're no more guilty of murder than I am.
Skin color is the most important thing
Transphobe!
Can trans white women undergoing an addadicktome surgery opt for a PoC (penis of color)?
Big if true!
Mike was the expert in this arena.
Mike had some hands-on experience allowing him to have his finger on the pulse?
"terrorism... the Charlottesville march"
Oh wow. What are all the BLM riots then? Nuclear war?
2020 Penn Election Officials: ignore the screen. Your paper ballot is right not the screen.
2022: Penn Election Officials: ignore the paper ballot. The screen is right
Penn Voters: maybe we shouldn’t trust these machines.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/25/voting-machine-trouble-pennsylvania-00128554?nname=playbook&nid=0000014f-1646-d88f-a1cf-5f46b7bd0000&nrid=0000014e-f103-dd93-ad7f-f9073ad50000&nlid=630318
I do love how they always blame it on human error and always dismiss intentionality. If it is wrong every damn election and only for certain races, it may not be just error. I could write solid election code in under a day. It isnt difficult. It can be adjusted quickly and easily to have an object for each candidate with party and role. It isnt difficult code. Yet every 2 years they “have a human error.”
I could write solid election code in under a day. It isnt difficult.
Dennis Ritchie, is that you?
Northampton’s case also underscores the delicate balance politicians and election officials say they must strike when investigating legitimate problems, without providing fodder to conspiracy theorists.
This is the problem. You're too worried that if you investigate you might find a small error that gives ammo to conspiracy theories. You're more worried about how it might look to recognize an issue, than in the harm that the issue itself might cause.
And in general, conspiracy theories are not driven by open, transparent investigations. They come from refusals to investigate, or blanket generalized defenses such as "No widespread issues were identified." If you were concerned about simply being accurate, you'd audit all the results, and you'd identify all the areas of concern. You'd share the truth with people instead of trying to push a narrative to shore up confidence. Ultimately, the way to build up trust is to be open and honest, not to offer blanket assurances.
The primary problem is when a mistake is found, they not only ignore it, promise to fix it next time, then commit the same damn error. It is a consistent error source. If my bank was constantly giving me wrong balances, I wouldn't trust them either. And the fact the locations this most happens is in deep dem blue cities that brag about fortification and refuse to fix elections and make them secure is very much a telling sign.
Plus the “errors” and “mistakes” always go in the same directions.
Right, because the underlying attitude is that if they address the mistake, it's going to undermine confidence. It's a completely backwards attitude; they're more concerned with public confidence than the simple task of "getting it right." And it's right there in the article.
^ A thousand times this.
There are only two valid reasons to have elections. One is the hope that collective input will lead to better officials and decisions. The results for that are, um, mixed. The second is that if people feel they have a voice then they will accept results, even if not their own preferences.
Undermining confidence affects both of these, but especially the second reason.
Agreed on both points. I'd even expound on the second one a bit: our government is built on the concept of the consent of the governed. When you have a built-in ruling class that the governed population have no input over, the only way they revoke their consent is through violence.
People need to have a voice, to know that they are being heard. So when people respond with "Shut up, cleanest election ever!" in the face of numerous concerns, it erodes everything. Even if those concerns are petty, silly, or wholly invented. The government has zero legitimate purpose if it's not addressing the concerns of the governed populace.
Ballots suppress bullets.
Ultimately, the way to build up trust is to be open and honest,
I'm sorry, but that is just too naïve. You have people like Mike Lindell who are going around the country demanding that Republicans get rid of electronic voting machines. They are not interested in the evidence of whether they work correctly or not. They are not interested in your 'openness and honesty' about how they work. They just want them gone, period. They will manufacture any self-serving argument that they must in order to justify removing the machines, and so they will take your 'openness and honesty' and blow any defect way out of proportion to scare people into thinking that the machines are far worse than they are.
You can't reason with them, and if you say "I give up, I can't reason with you, I am going to ignore you", they will scream 'conspiracy theory! they're hiding the truth!" until they get what they want.
So what is your advice for how to deal with them?
Do you automatically dismiss all 9/11 truthers the same way, because you are proving ATMs point.
The 9/11 Truthers who are immune to reason, and who only want to 'prove' that 9/11 was an inside job, are not worth talking to. What is the point?
At *some point*, a person of reason will say "well, even though I don't have 100% of the facts, the preponderance of the evidence, as well as Occam's Razor, supports the hypothesis that terrorists flew planes into the buildings and that's what caused them to fall down, instead of this other crazy theory that has far less evidence in favor of it."
And when it comes to voting machines, sure, let's be 'open and honest' about how the machines work. My understanding is that in most places, before an election, it is standard procedure for the machines to be tested in front of observers from both parties before an election, or that there are tests done before an election that can be certified and verified in some way. So I am all in favor of that happening. If that is not good enough, then do some more testing, fine. But there comes a point where more testing and more openness will not help, because those that remain unconvinced are just immune to reason. That is my point.
The 9/11 Truthers who are immune to reason, and who only want to ‘prove’ that 9/11 was an inside job, are not worth talking to. What is the point?
And here I thought you were a creature of Reason (the process).
Is not the point of reason to dispel belief?
By asserting limits, you implicitly acknowledge that Reason will never fully triumph.
"the preponderance of the evidence, as well as Occam’s Razor, supports the hypothesis that terrorists flew planes into the buildings and that’s what caused them to fall down"
Do an internet search for 9/11 building 7. You're in for a shock.
You are right. 90+ percent try to make the case that the building collapsed for literally no reason connected to the terror attack.
-they ignore the fire burning for hours unchecked in the building
-they ignore (purposely I would say) the damage to the building caused by the collapse of one of the towers.
Yep, its shocking how much people will ignore if they really want to believe a conspiracy theory.
" its shocking how much people will ignore "
An entire building, unstruck by airplanes, falling, at free fall speed, I might add, into its own footprint. That happened to building 7 on 9/11. As I mentioned, do an internet search on the subject if you think this was 'a conspiracy.' You're in for a shock. Three office towers, two airplanes.
They picked up a spare!
You have people like Mike Lindell who are going around the country demanding that Republicans get rid of electronic voting machines. They are not interested in the evidence of whether they work correctly or not. They are not interested in your ‘openness and honesty’ about how they work. They just want them gone, period
Fucking DUH! You're never going to please the actual conspiracists. But you only lend ammo to them with blanket assurances instead of transparent attempts to share information.
I mean, think about what the county did in this case. They told voters to ignore the error printed on the paper, because it has a bar code which was going to tally the votes correctly. They couldn't demonstrate that directly to the voters who were concerned, the voters had to simply take their word. Because votes don't get tallied at precincts, they get tallied at centralized locations, so it's insulated from the actual voter.
It's asking them hand over a ballot containing incorrect information. If, god forbid, there was later a second error involving the tabulators, caused by another bad programmer or a solar flare, the only verifiable information would be what's printed on the ballot, which is incorrect.
Then you get comments like this.
He also said the county would “endeavor mightily” to avoid a repeat in 2024 of any similar flubs, which he emphasized was caused by humans. “It wasn’t a machine error,” he said.
Of fucking COURSE it was caused by humans! The machines weren't divinely summoned from the heavens. That doesn't make it less of a machine error when the machine gives improper read outs. It shows the fundamental problem with the machines, that there's occasionally dumbass humans involved with the code who may do things that aren't getting caught until the machines are being used on the day of. That doesn't mean it's not a problem to consider if the company you've got a contract with has had significant coding errors in two of the last five elections.
They're too worried there won't be time to train poll workers with any new system they might implement over the next year. Keep in mind that most poll workers get about 4 hours worth of training, often less. I'll bet you could improve on that. And it's not like you don't have grounds to break the contract if the company you're contracting with is failing to deliver a reliable product.
Him referring to Mike Lindell is especially hilarious after a Ga judge rules and set a trial date for Jan 9th regarding election machines, agreeing the machines are riddled with errors and it was not a conspiracy theory.
https://apnews.com/article/voting-machines-georgia-lawsuit-cybersecurity-d8a4653211bf19c21d3b9dc2d59a7a61
The biggest conspiracy theory is Jeff’s belief 2020 was the most secure election ever.
It is also hilarious jeff calls 59% of the country conspiracy theorists.
https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-02-13/majority-of-americans-dont-trust-elections-poll
This as he tries to deny and hide all the examples of problems in elections. Never fix the issues, just scream at people to trust government always. That is Jeff's entire argument.
Ga judge rules and set a trial date for Jan 9th regarding election machines, agreeing the machines are riddled with errors and it was not a conspiracy theory.
Let's be honest, the judge didn't rule that. The judge simply said that there are enough facts in dispute, and petitioners had met a sufficient standard of production to go to trial. The judge didn't summarily rule in favor of the petitioners, otherwise there would be no trial.
But this lawsuit demonstrates the problem-it's a lawsuit filed in July 2017! The system is so resistant to giving any remedies to election challenges that a lawsuit alleging weaknesses can take 6 and a half years before it even gets properly heard (hearing schedule for January 9). This lawsuit was filed before Stacey Abrams ever complained that the Georgia election was stolen, much less Trump.
Georgia has even put in a new election voting system since the lawsuit was filed, and it still doesn't address the underlying weaknesses of the election system. Poor cybersecurity, lack of transparency, no audits.
Let’s be honest,
you're talking to Jesse here, the right-wing fifty-center
No Fatfuck, Jesse doesn’t lie, but you do. You’re regularly caught doing so here. Often by Jesse. So you hate him. You are so thoroughly discredited here it defies reason that you continually waddle back for more.
Now GTFO.
The judges order literally says “this isn’t a conspiracy” and listed the numerous technical firms that have highlighted the issues. That was written in the judicial motion.
Here is the order.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eV7LFj8GvsxTvzHyuzu9vVGXZM9LXfbe/view
Here is the foot note.
In a footnote of the ruling, Totenberg said that the evidence in the case "does not suggest that the Plaintiffs are conspiracy theorists of any variety."
.
"Indeed, some of the nation's leading cybersecurity experts and computer scientists have provided testimony and affidavits on behalf of Plaintiffs' case in the long course of this litigation," she wrote.
Again, not the same thing as saying they're correct. She's simply saying they have evidence of a sufficient standard to proceed.
My comment never claimed they were correct. My comment was on the judge saying it wasn't a conspiracy theory. The argument the Jeff's of the world offer up to hide any questions regarding the election. It was the substance of all the 2020 election suits. The media and politicians demanded no investigation calling all claims conspiracies. Youre misreading what I wrote. It is why I stated there was a trial scheduled.
I mean, think about what the county did in this case. They told voters to ignore the error printed on the paper, because it has a bar code which was going to tally the votes correctly. They couldn’t demonstrate that directly to the voters who were concerned, the voters had to simply take their word. Because votes don’t get tallied at precincts, they get tallied at centralized locations, so it’s insulated from the actual voter.
Okay, put yourself in the shoes of the election worker/manager on election day. There's a problem with the voting machine and/or the paper ballot, and you have some confused voters asking you questions. What are you going to do? What are you going to tell them?
Well if it's me, working a poll site, I'm a poorly-trained confused dupe that doesn't understand what's going on. I've not been briefed in advance of any problems that might arise from this. I didn't program the machine. So I can't give them any freaking answers. There's not an actual technician on site, so you have to call it in, while the confused voter stands there, wanting to leave but also wanting the issue resolved.
It can only be government work because customer satisfaction is not a factor at all.
Also, let me propose a system to you that we could implement which maintains voter anonymity and provides easy assurance that voting machines are working properly. It would cut down a large percentage of legitimate, non-trolling voter security concerns.
Each ballot comes with a unique 10-character string. This becomes its unique ballot number. It's two places-once at the top of the ballot, identifying it, and a second on a perforated slip you tear off at the bottom. You can then later get online and check to see if your ballot has been counted by searching for that unique character string. And when you check to see that it's been counted, you can see the full ballot of selections you made and verify that your ballot was counted accurately.
Now, most people being high trust would not hang onto these. You'd find them in the trash at polling stations, on the ground outside or in the parking lots. It causes some litter, perhaps. But there's zero personal identifying information in it because it's just a uniquely generated string of characters.
That sounds fine to me.
I just need to understand why this isn’t done. I’m an internet dumb fuck. I don’t program for a living.
As it is there no way for any individual voter to verify that their vote was counted, much less counted accurately. That’s asking for a lot of trust in opaque government systems with minimal accountability.
Okay, put yourself in the shoes of the election worker/manager on election day. There’s a problem with the voting machine and/or the paper ballot, and you have some confused voters asking you questions. What are you going to do? What are you going to tell them?
This is why we shouldn't be using voting machines of any kind.
Voting should be done using paper ballots and audit slips dropped into sealed urns: every election worker understands how those work.
NOYB2, in 1923:
"These newfangled automobiles keep malfunctioning and breaking down. That's why nobody should use automobiles and everyone should ride horses, the way my pa and grandpa did."
Does this 1923 automobile have a bear in its trunk?
Jeffy will always be 39.
Is that his neck size?
I do not tell anybody what they should or shouldn't use.
But when it comes to government, I advocate the use of secure, transparent, and auditable processes. Furthermore, I advocate the use of rational cost/benefit analyses.
I'm sorry you are so technically illiterate that you do not understand that voting machines do not meet either of those standards: they are neither secure/auditable, nor do their benefits outweigh their costs.
What are you going to do? What are you going to tell them?
How about this - explain you appreciate that it looks bad and understand their concerns. Tell them if they give you their contact information, you'll get to the bottom of it and demonstrate that everything is okay. And actually follow up.
Of fucking COURSE it was caused by humans! The machines weren’t divinely summoned from the heavens.
*Bestowed* from the heavens... summoned from the heavens still leaves open the possibility that the summoners did something incorrectly. 🙂
You have people like Mike Lindell who are going around the country demanding that Republicans get rid of electronic voting machines.
Good! Most European nations don't use electronic voting machines because they are intrinsically not trustworthy.
They are not interested in the evidence of whether they work correctly or not.
That is intrinsically impossible. And if they are working correctly, it is intrinsically impossible to audit them.
The federal government should mandate paper ballots and audit trails in all elections; under the US Constitution, it can do that.
Agreed, but that doesn’t fit the Fatfuck Pedo Jeffy narrative.
Well, if you want voting like it is done in Europe, then there have to be some other changes as well:
1. Election day is either on the weekend, or a national holiday.
2. If you can't make it to the polling site on election day, you can designate someone else to vote for you. (Proxy voting is legal in France.)
3. The voting system is nationally standardized and run centrally by the national government.
4. To help placebound people vote, on election day, local government authorities organize vans to help those people get to the polling places. (Also in France)
5. In some European countries (e.g. Belgium), voting is compulsory. Is this what you want?
So if you really want elections here to work like they do in Europe, there's going to have to be some changes.
Who said we need all of it? We need security and chain-of-custody measures for sure. But, it seems you prefer the all or nothing approach.
1. Election day is either on the weekend, or a national holiday.
I strongly favor that. Sunday is particularly good, since voters can go right before or after church services, and since hardworking middle class voters are less likely to skip voting. That is, after all, the reason it is done that way in Europe.
2. If you can’t make it to the polling site on election day, you can designate someone else to vote for you. (Proxy voting is legal in France.)
Indeed, that is a good idea, subject to the same French rules: any voter can at most carry proxy votes and the voter must apply ahead of time with justification in order to be permitted to vote by proxy.
There is no vote-by-mail in France anymore after France experienced widespread fraud with it. That is why it should be abolished in the US as well.
3. The voting system is nationally standardized and run centrally by the national government.
Yes, the voting system should be nationally standardized, in particular the use of paper ballots, secure urns, specific audit trails, counting procedures, and retention requirements. We also need well defined procedures for auditing and dealing with accusations of fraud and irregularities, and in particular repeating disputed elections, just as in France and other European nations.
Such requirements are compatible with the US Constitution.
I don't know what you mean by "centrally run". As far as I know, elections are always "locally run" for simple practical reasons, but have to conform to European and national laws and standards.
4. To help placebound people vote, on election day, local government authorities organize vans to help those people get to the polling places. (Also in France)
We have that in the US already.
5. In some European countries (e.g. Belgium), voting is compulsory.
Compulsory voting is pointless and incompatible with our legal system; but if you could pass it, it wouldn't particularly bother me.
Is this what you want?
I'm perfectly fine with all of those suggestions; I think they are big improvements over what the US has right now. In fact, we could simply import the French or German voting procedures wholesale into the US and we would end up with a much more secure and trustworthy system than what we have now.
You don't pay millions and millions of dollars for a system you can't introduce human error into. Feature!
Maybe three days once we're adding in tying an anonymous cryptographic hash that the voter can use to ensure that their vote was tallied correctly, and the state can use to ensure that only registered voters were counted, but yes, this is hardly rocket surgery, and all of the pieces of code exist already.
I live in Pennsylvania. I'm familiar to the voting machine issue. It strikes me funny how these "errors" always benefit the Democrats. 2016 I witnessed a Poll Worker correct a ballot, for a woman. She had selected a straight Republican ticket but, the machine selected Hilary for her presidential vote. A local Judge (Democrat) said it was a "calibration error". If that was the truth it should have happened both ways. (trust me if one would have errored in favor of Trump, we'd still be hearing about it) 2020 I noticed that the selection area of the touchscreen for Biden was huge, while it was noticeably smaller for Trump.
Well, I suppose the point of this essay is that judgments like "the best pizza" are by definition subjective, and hence depend on the standards used to make such determinations. If one is to go purely by the quality of the finished product itself, then no, frozen pizza is not "the best". But if one is to go by some semi-optimal combination of "good enough quality" with "high availability" and "low price", then frozen pizza might qualify as "the best". I might have chosen a different title for the essay, though, because this one is just going to get Suderman mocked for thinking that Red Baron pizza is higher quality than one you could find at an authentic Italian pizzeria in Chicago or New York.
Not everyone is as slow as you are.
I take that back. Turns out Charlie is very slow.
To be fair, I think Jeffy has some experience being mocked for cause. It was right of him to weigh in so heavily on this subject. Even if he is the 800 pound elephant in the room.
On a scale of biden to 10, you did well. Fat chance I’ll give it a perfect score even if that means being the heavy.
Ultimately, he’s just dense.
Is there any corporate interest that Reasons editors won't suck massive dicks for?
You guys missed that corporate interests aren't equal to free markets.
The Trump Organization and maybe some of the companies owned by Elon Musk... otherwise no.
If you want the bumhole licked too, be Koch Industries
I think this article is about 50 years too late.
There *was* a time (and that time is now in some parts of the world) where cheap mass-produced 'lowest-common-denominator' goods were something to praise.
But in the intervening years we've become rich enough to come full circle back to high-quality bespoke goods - the long tail.
At one time Red Baron would have genuinely been a great achievement. Today, here, its just the minimum acceptable effort.
In the Biden economy, it’s all people can afford.
Fresh tree bark will likely be scarce by the time we get to Election Day.
They've already moved on to Totino's.
Reuters tries to claim the Hamas hostages released were Israeli Soldiers to hide they were children and old people.
https://twitter.com/ChayaRaichik10/status/1728626287684763845/photo/1
These are the news agencies Jeff demands we exclusively use here.
Oh look. Further down in your own link, Reuters admitted they made a mistake and they changed the headline. So it sure doesn't look like it was some obvious plot to conceal the truth.
Unlike about 90+% of your news sources, which deliberately lie by omission in order to push narratives. Such as your NY Post article that you posted just yesterday which misleadingly claimed that only 2% of migrants in NYC sought work permits.
“Mistake”.
"Human error, good intentions"
If it's deliberate, then they corrected for their "deliberate" error.
Contrast this to 90+% of Jesse's sources that he brings here.
No widespread mistakes.
100% mistake free and effective.
I know, right?
Reuters makes a mistake, and then later corrects it, so they are totally unreliable.
Meanwhile, The Federalist is totally reliable even though it is 100% opinion and biased, and rarely if ever do they correct their mistakes.
Maybe they don’t make as many.
"Reuters makes a mistake, and then later corrects it, so they are totally unreliable."
After it's been spread everywhere on social media and has taken on a life of it's own. This is from page one on every how-to-propaganda guide, and I know that you know that as a paid shill yourself.
After it’s been spread everywhere on social media and has taken on a life of it’s own. This is from page one on every how-to-propaganda guide,
Now do the NY Post article on "2% of migrants obtained a work permit".
Sure but first explain how the 98% who didn’t get a permit were kids, newbies and charity workers, because the stats don’t match that claim.
No, you fuck off with your "inverting the burden of proof" garbage that you try to pull every single fucking time you try to have a discussion.
YOU try to explain why it's justified for the NY Post to run with a story headlined "Only 2% of the 140K migrants who have come to NYC have applied for work permits", which is a FALSE STATEMENT based on the article's own contents. It was to try to spread a narrative of "lazy migrants" using sloppy statistics, right? It was because they were following "page one on every how-to-propaganda guide", right? Why don't you tell me how the NY Post is a more reliable news source.
Me: “This is from page one on every how-to-propaganda guide…”
creamjeff: “Now do the NY Post article…
Me: “Sure but first explain…
creamjeff: “No, you fuck off with your “inverting the burden of proof” garbage that you try to pull every single fucking time you try to have a discussion.
It’s like Jeff somehow thinks nobody can read two posts up and see what a massive fucking hypocrite and bad-faith debater he is, for pulling a similar stunt in his first response.
““Only 2% of the 140K migrants who have come to NYC have applied for work permits”, which is a FALSE STATEMENT based on the article’s own contents.”
That’s a flat out fucking lie, Lying Jeffy. There’s nothing in the article that contradicts its statement that “Only 2% of the 140K migrants who have come to NYC have applied for work permits”.
You invented a whole bunch of fantastic excuses as to why the 98% who didn’t, didn’t; but nowhere did you demonstrate that more than 2% did.
Who do you think you’re tricking here with your middle school sophistry?
The problem for Jeff is not only is he an idiot but also a hypocrite. He doesn't have to provide even his own evidence, just bald assertions and "questions."
It’s like Jeff somehow thinks nobody can read two posts up and see what a massive fucking hypocrite and bad-faith debater he is, for pulling a similar stunt in his first response.
Huh. So the only way I can get you to admit that you are an asshole, is if I act like an asshole to you. Got it. Asshole.
There’s nothing in the article that contradicts its statement that “Only 2% of the 140K migrants who have come to NYC have applied for work permits”.
The article even says that they only counted the migrants who applied for work permits *using the city's application system*. They didn't count the migrants who applied for work permits using other systems. They also inflated the denominator by including the ones who were ineligible. They lied, ML. They pushed propaganda way worse than Reuters ever did.
From the article:
"Roughly 3,200 asylum seekers in New York City have filed the required paperwork needed to start earning a legal paycheck — some 18 months after the relentless migrant influx first began, according to figures provided by City Hall.
1,495 of those work authorization applications have been filed through the city’s Asylum Application Help Center since the facility opened back in June, the figures show.
Meanwhile, another 1,700 work applications were submitted last month when the Biden administration sent Department of Homeland Security staffers to Gotham for a two-week stretch to help speed through the bureaucratic process."
"Others may have applied for approval to earn a paycheck in the US through non-profits or on their own, but that data wasn’t immediately known."
Jeff has no evidence of them doing this, but somehow the Post is lying because it contradicts Media Matters narratives.
Their claim: “Only 2% of the 140K migrants who have come to NYC have applied for work permits”
It is a lie because, by their own admission, they did not bother to count *all* of the migrants who applied for a work permit. So BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION they do not know what is the ACTUAL percentage of migrants who applied for work permits. It is not 2%. It is also highly misleading because they included ineligible migrants in the denominator of their statistic.
Why do you support using false and misleading statistics in the headlines of stories like this?
You can often glean a lot about bias from the types of mistakes a publication makes. If the headline had said, "Israel recovers 13 more bodies from Hamas," you might find it very prejudicial against Hamas since they turned over living people.
Why did the person writing the headline automatically assume "Soldiers" was the right word? Where did that word come from? Was it a Hamas source telling the AP they were turning over Israeli soldiers? Or is there an underlying assumption that any Israeli captives must have been active combatants and not tots and teenagers?
Facts are racism.
The mistake could be anything from "reporter bias" to "transcription error" to "incorrect information from a source".
I think you are reading way too much into this mistake.
And I think the tweeter quoted above is being too disingenuous by instantly assuming that the mistake is evidence of a sinister motive.
This "mistake" happens almost every day and always in one direction, but Jeff wants everyone to think it's always innocent little mistakes.
Just another reason among thousands why I think this shill is a Nazi.
Wait, so it's Naziism to give the benefit of a doubt to a respected news agency when they make an occasional mistake? Is that what you mean by Naziism?
If so, then the word has no meaning at all.
They've been accused of being an antisemitic propaganda outlet for decades, Jeffy.
Reuters denies using anti-Israel rhetoric
AP and Reuters: Up to Their Old Tricks on Oct. 7
"a respected news agency"
Just like Der Sturmer, right?
Reuters denies using anti-Israel rhetoric
Huh. So once, instead of using the term Israeli Defense Forces, they used the term Israeli Occupation Forces, a term that its critics use, and then when they were criticized for it, they corrected the story. Sounds like they made an editorial mistake just like they did above. Not anti-semitic.
AP and Reuters: Up to Their Old Tricks on Oct. 7
A right-wing criticism of the media that complains that they aren't deferential enough to Israel and not judgmental enough of what happened on Oct. 7. Wow. It's almost as if the reporting is trying to be fair. How terrible!
Just like Der Sturmer, right?
No, not like Der Sturmer.
Keep going, you are making Reuters sound better and better.
"Keep going, you are making Reuters sound better and better."
It was the Der Stumer comparison that really warmed your cockles, I bet.
"A right-wing criticism of the media"
The criticism is completely legitimate and the examples are presented, cited and well attested in article. But look at you try to wave it away by shrieking "right-wing, right-wing".
The American Spectator is conservative, but you can shove your "right-wing" nonsense right up your fat ass, until your willing to go on record and define what you mean by it when you use the phrase as a smear.
But look at you try to wave it away by shrieking “right-wing, right-wing”.
That is you trying to ignore what I wrote. Their criticism is that Reuters wasn't biased enough on the side of Israel, and that is what makes Reuters biased. It is nonsense and you know it.
"Their criticism is that Reuters wasn’t biased enough on the side of Israel, and that is what makes Reuters biased."
No it isn't, you lying fuck, and what you're calling "biased on the side of Israel" is usually called "facts", Herr Jeffy. You're like our very own little Walter Duranty.
No it isn’t,
Yes it is.
First criticism: Reuters described the act as the killing of 1200 "people" and not "Jews". But how is Reuters supposed to know that all 1200 of them were actually Jews? Declaring them all to be Jews would have been an assumption, not a fact.
Second criticism: Reuters called the terrorists "militants" or "fighters". But that label is more accurate - putting a more provocative label on them would have been more prejudicial.
Third criticism: Reuters describe their actions as "killing", and not murder. But "murder" is an actual crime, and these perpetrators haven't been convicted of the crime of murder in a court of law.
So kudos to Reuters for playing it straight.
And I am not at all surprised that your idea of "biased news" is an article that actually has very little bias, and that's why you don't like it, because it doesn't show enough bias towards your tribe's viewpoint.
It is a respected agency. Respected by leftist propagandist liars like Jeffy.
"respected news agency"
I think I found the problem. I don't respect any news agency.
respected news agency
Is it even possible for you to not defer to institutions out of institutional respect?
Yes. If they are conservative or anti government. See his views on Twitter.
Don’t get him started on historically vilified* “big pharma”.
*pre 2020. They are now apparently heroes.
These are the news agencies Jeff demands we exclusively use here.
Oh and by the way.
You are free to cite whatever source you like. Go ahead and cite The Federalist and Breitbart and NY Post all day long if you like.
But when you do that, it reflects upon you. It demonstrates that you are less interested in facts, and more interested in narrative.
How many people have cited Breitbart here, Lying Jeffy?
And are you claiming that the NY Post is some sort of far-right publication?
Huh, you left out The Federalist. Why is that?
Is that your tacit admission that The Federalist is a pure right-wing opinion site, and yet it is routinely cited as an authoritative source around here?
Because I forgot it, but:
"The Federalist is a pure right-wing opinion site"
Imagine Jeffy pretending that nobody here acknowledges that The Federalist is conservative. Is it because you try and deny that the WaPo and NYT are extremist-progressive and think I'll behave accordingly?
Which is a more credible news source, Reuters or The Federalist?
Which is less biased, Reuters or The Federalist?
No, the real question is which one is more honest. Honest about their agenda, and honest about what they report.
Hint; it isn’t your precious Reuters, comrade.
"Which is less biased, Reuters or The Federalist?"
The Federalist. Every fucking time.
In fact you'd be hard pressed to find a source more biased than Reuters. Even Jacobin and Brietbart aren't as overt in their respective biases as Reuters is for the oligarchy.
I dont think I've ever seen Jeff actually show where The Federalist was factually incorrect in any article I have posted from them. He thinks his ad hominem attacks are enough. The exact opposite of when we use his links to discredit his views.
Of course he won't, because it's all inference and innuendo with that lying fuck.
He'd have to actually have some facts and not just vitriol, to give a demonstration that something was factually incorrect. And that's going to be a heavy load for him.
lol of course
The Federalist actually criticizes the right all the time. They are more in the Paul and Massie camp of conservatives as they are fervently federalist. That's why Jeff is against it. I mean Liz Wolfe used to work there. Harsanyi works there now. It is closer to libertarian than the leftist sites jeff uses for his information. His biggest problem is it is not pro state. Federalist has criticized trump, DeSantis, mcconnel, Romney, McDaniel, and many others in the GOP.
Jeffy hates it because it is somewhat libertarian. Where he is a statist, global Marxist. Who likely worships Soros as much as Shrike.
That’s why Jeff is against it.
I'm against using any explicitly opinion site as an authoritative source for fact-based information. Jesse & co. are not. They prefer narratives over facts.
Keep pushing that narrative Fatfuck, WE BELIEVE YOU.
They aren’t explicitly opinion you retarded fuck. What gets posted here are articles with factual information that you can’t refute, so you make up any excuse you can for dismissing it. Just like you do with Just the News which is a news site that also includes a tab for all their sources.
Meanwhile you post just security, NYU outfit, dark Brandon praising salon articles, daily beast, and other bullshit leftist sites filled with opinion.
Youre just a desperate liar at this point. Youre just full of shit.
By your assertion nobody could ever cite fucking reason articles here. Lol.
Youre just a retarded lying fuck.
Journalists are not some respected official source dumbass. As seen by the Reuters tweet. But you can't handle that you can't censor information you dislike.
They aren’t explicitly opinion
Yes they are. Every piece is an opinion piece. Here's one from the homepage:
"Media Launder Stories Like The Fentanyl Letters To Blame Republicans For Everything"
https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/23/media-launder-stories-like-the-fentanyl-letters-to-blame-republicans-for-everything/
The first sentence of this article is:
"The true danger to American democracy comes from the radical left. Just don’t expect to hear it from the corporate media."
I mean, if the article has the phrase "radical left" (or "radical right") used in a non-ironic way, then it's an opinion piece. It's pushing a narrative. It may have some factual items in it, and it may be an opinion that you or I might agree with, but you can't trust it to deliver the whole truth, because the point of an opinion piece is not to have a well-informed reader, but to have the reader agree with the author.
And what makes a narrative a particularly good one, is when it does contain some element of truth to it. So these opinions at The Federalist do have factual information in them. But they are not the *entire* truth. Nor should they be, because again that is not the point of the article! They are not even trying to be even-handed.
About 90% of what you post is right-wing opinion. Not balanced reporting, not something that can be relied upon for an unbiased search for truth.
You choose one article to inform all articles of being opinion? Are you truly this much of a fucking idiot? By your assertion, again, you shouldn’t be on Reason or ever discuss their arguments because they are “opinion.”
They have opinion articles. Just like CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, The Hill, etc.
How fucking dumb are you jeff?
Have you ever refuted a single article I’ve posted here? heretic? Answer is no. Did i post the opinion article here?The answer is no. Did you post a salon article that praised Dark Brandon? The answer is yes. Do you post Daily Beast? The answer is yes. Youre just a child.
Youre a sophist. Youre really bad at logic and coherence. You have used the same arguments against JTN despite their dig in tab.
You simply hate how week your viewpoints are so want to ignore them, censor them, and use ad hominem attacks.
You aren't the king of valid information here. Most of what you post is fucking bullshit opinion easily refuted. Youre the walking embodiment of intentional ignorance.
THEY'RE ALL OPINION ARTICLES. What I posted is just one illustrative example.
You seriously think The Federalist is "hard news" like The Hill or CNN? You cannot be serious.
And by the way, I don't claim Reason articles represent unbiased neutral reporting either. They absolutely push their own point of view, just like every opinionated site out there.
Why don't you cite one from The Federalist that you think is not an opinion article, and I'll demonstrate how it is.
I have absolutely shown how several of the articles that you have posted are either lies or misrepresentations of the truth. The latest one is your stupid article from the NY Post about the "2% of migrants getting work permits" which is so incredibly misleading.
Here is an article from The Federalist that you cited 4 days ago, which is absolutely an opinion piece.
https://reason.com/2023/11/22/dont-trust-a-model-un-nerd/?comments=true#comment-10328855
The headline itself gives it away:
"Transportation Safety Board Proposes Dystopian Technology To Limit Your Speed While Driving"
Do you not see how an article that describes technology as "dystopian" is not being fair or impartial? That it is making an opinionated judgment?
Now, how is this article misleading? This is what the article says:
The article also mentions that the NTSB recommendation comes after both Republicans and Democrats saved the "kill switch" technology for impaired drivers to be implemented in new cars, by a vote in Congress.
But there is no connection between what the NTSB did and the "kill switch" vote in Congress. The article misleadingly tries to make a connection between the two.
Further, the article never specifically says what this mandate is.
Here's the 'mandate' as recommended by the NTSB:
https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20231114.aspx
There is a lot there that isn't 'dystopian' at all. There is nothing there about a "kill switch" for impaired drivers.
The purpose of this article is to spread fear by hyping and exaggerating the supposed dystopia, making connections that aren't there, and minimizing the parts that aren't dystopian at all. It is pushing a narrative, like all opinion pieces.
The NY Post is a lot closer to unbiased than the NY Times, or the Washington Post, or MSNBC, or most other channels.
"My favorite local pizzeria stops delivering around 10 p.m. on weeknights."
What's the point of living in the big, hip, city, if you have to put up with hick shit like this!?
They don’t have enough dough to stay open all night.
Thats one way to spin it.
Hey now! Don’t get saucy. Or were you just topping him?
Just tossing in what I can.
Cheesy line of puns.
Reason should stick to economics and personal freedom
That’s what the essay was about.
charlie is not the sharpest spoon the drawer.
But he is the sharpest head of Lettus in the cabbage patch
Lettuce reflect that charlie’s most recent post is just the tip of his stupidity iceberg. Folks romaine unimpressed.
Why can’t you just leaf him alone and ignore his word salads?
No offense, but this is literally what this article is about.
I think you can intend some minimal amount of offense. That was a really dumb statement.
I'm fair - none of the rest of us read the articles before commenting either.
Heck, half the time I don't read the article *after* commenting.
Please, offend him.
That's how they keep the conservative hate coming.
After all, only leftists think people should be free to do business with whomever they want regardless of what country in which they reside, and only leftists think people should be free to do whatever they want in their personal lives as long as they don't hurt anyone else.
Yep. Reason is totally leftist.
The fact you think that is what the left represents. Lol.
You really are broken. Reason has its own biases such as when they advocate for federal control of zoning regulations, supported covid testing expenditures, defended censorship for years under the guise of private companies, defend lawfare, ignore J6 convictions until the point PB got 17 years, ignore political corruption such as Biden, and on and on. That is all bias. Sullum has ranted in support of lawfare for fucks sake.
You’ve been on the wrong side of every fucking issue for years.
And nobody calls Reason leftist. They say they lean and have a big city dem leaning bias which is fucking true.
No, that's not what I think. I was mocking you, yasafi.
You’ve been on the wrong side of every fucking issue for years.
For years I say what I think and you tell me I'm wrong and rant against what you say I really think. Sorry bub, but the voices in your head don't represent what I think. And I'm not on any side but my own. yasifi
You've been on the wrong side of every issue. That's why you constantly deny everything you've said in the past dumbass.
The Left is absolutely about total control of all aspects of economic and private life.
That you continue to insist they are, in any way, supportive of individual freedom is . . . well, its insane.
The Left is absolutely about total control of all aspects of economic and private life.
No they aren't. They are about partial control of economic and private life. Just like the Right. Which is why we libertarians ought to reject both of them.
You’re a leftist, not a libertarian. Now go away forever.
On the twelfth day of Christmas, Reason gave to me:
Twelve DeSantis stories,
Eleven diapers wiping,
Ten wards a-creeping,
Nine babies lancing,
Eight jeffs strawmanning,
Seven squirrels a-spamming,
Six Ds a-preying,
Or-ange man bad,
Four cawing birds,
Three Pence hens,
Two more weeks in masks,
and a Brandon reluctantly.
5 Republicans pouncing?
One of your best, Chumby.
I'll have to steal..er..borrow that. 🙂
Let us thank Chumby for proving that what Ruskin said of shoddy merchandise :
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. "
Is equally true of Christmas carol parodies.
Fuck. Four and a half cawing birds.
Remember how so many of you were cheering and excited when college kids were chanting 'Let's Go Brandon' at college football games a few years ago?
Well, let's see how they are reacting now to a certain person's appearance at a college football game.
https://twitter.com/CodyAlcorn/status/1728568842950217972?s=20
He’s going to be re-elected. Get used to it.
A dozen paid protesters at the gates isn't a stadium full of football fans, Lying Jeffy.
If you really want to know sport fans reactions when Trump appears, here he is walking into the UFC title match a few weeks ago.
Hear that crowd? The only way you Nazis are going to stop him is to assassinate him, Jeffy.
Aww, does it make you sad that your hero gets booed at a college football game? And in South Carolina to boot! How embarrassing for him (and for you)!
I think it’s great we can still protest politicians in public.
Fuck Joe Biden
Fuck Joe Biden!
He got booed by a few paid leftists like you. He received cheers and a standing ovation from the crowd inside the stadium. Thousands of people cheering for Trump, as usual.
From a Politico article yesterday that Reason won’t let me link here:
‘Trump draws cheers in Haley’s backyard at Clemson-South Carolina football game’
“The former president and current front-runner for the 2024 Republican nomination arrived at Williams-Brice Stadium in Columbia on Saturday night to chants of “We want Trump! We want Trump!” from fans gathered for the annual Palmetto Bowl, the state’s biggest sporting event of the year.”
And this is from leftist Politico.
Seriously Fatfuck, you are so bad at this. Now that I have once again humiliated you, GTFO.
"Aww, does it make you sad that your hero gets booed at a college football game?"
Except he didn't, NaziJeff. He got momentous cheers inside the stadium.
What you linked to was a half dozen protesters outside the stadium. You lied and pretended otherwise because you're a paid Democratic Party propagandist.
Is there any here that can look at Jeff's posts and not think he's a fifty-center?
Its hilarious that you keep complaining that no one 'knows the real you' and everyone insults you about policy positions you claim to not actually support.
Then you go and do the exact same thing.
Like a hypocrite.
Well, here's how I'm reacting - good. More politicians should be booed. The fuck do I care that some morons booed Trump. Its hilarious - because he can handle it.
Unlike Brandon.
Sounds like an enthusiastic, positive, excited crowd to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqy2U6Xk4Rg
The man really has no principles.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4327061-romney-democrat-upgrade-over-trump-in-2024/
Towards the end of the 2012 campaign, I started to sort-of warm up to him a little bit. I started to think, maybe this guy isn't so bad after all. Sure he's a massive flip-flopper on all sorts of issues, but at least he's a decent human being, right? Well, when you flip-flop THIS much, you're off the 'decent human being' list, because at this point it speaks to the content of his own character. It is just craven. I mean, what DOES he stand for? Does anyone really know? He and Trump deserve each other, they are more alike than they would probably ever care to admit publicly.
Mitt is a terrible person.
Romney stands for money. He’s a capitalist after all.
Rommney stand for globalist socialism with him and his friends at the top
Shocking nobody Jeff promotes the GOP voice that will vote Democrat.
lol I trashed Mitt, you're not even trying anymore
GTFO you fat fagggot. Everyone is suspicious of your Lyon, sea lioning marxist shit.
No one loves you, or ever will.
You didn't even trash him. This is some 'look, even Romney, a Republican, hates Trump' bullshit.
Then govnah of Massachusetts Romney signed into law a bill that banned ownership of some firearms that other Americans were not restricted to own. Mitt may have binders full of women but not of libertarians supporting him.
He is the most democrat favoring self labeled conservative proving jeff is neutral.
That's one more principle than you have, Jeffy.
You were, for some reason, surprised that a MA Republican - *otherwise known as a Democrat* - has TDS?
Half the GPO are RINO's.
But can it really be called pizza if it's not deep dish, and covered with pineapple?
Pineapple on top of cheese bread is not pizza.
It is mana. Ambrosia. Nirvana.
Does it smell like teen spirit?
I'll let shrike answer.
Doesn't Shrike prefer pre-teen spirit?
Shrike is the commentariat’s Patrick Wojahn.
Hawaiian has always been my favorite pizza. You better rethink your preferences, because I know you'd rather swim naked with hungry piranha than have something in common with me.
Poor sarc.
I'm not the petty man-child who is sitting there wondering if he really likes pineapple on his pizza because some stranger on the internet who he hates has enjoyed it all his life.
Always the victim.
How am I the victim here? I don't care what you eat, little man.
LOL
Always the child.
Why are you stealing Hawaiian culture?
How sad it must be to have to eat Chicago style deep dish pizza all the time. Like a window into hell.
Will probably be mocked. But I like Detroit style pizza the best.
Even you agree that the premise of Detroit pizza is insane
The Detroit style pizza place that opened here a year back is always busy. Sauce belongs on top!
Who and where is it?
Transplant. Local restaurant group that owns Serial Grillers.
You support their execution?
I actually god mad when they removed the serial killer horror theme to make it family friendly. Food good though.
Thanks, I’ll check it out.
As I said below Jets Detroit 8 corner square pizza is my favorite. Had the same style at a shop in Ypsilanti MI that I delivered for back in the 70s. Have to go to MI to get it.
Jet's sells it in Illinois as well. At least, our local Jet's does. Personally, I go for Bell's over in East Lansing.
Agreed, Domino's started in Detroit.
Ypsilanti.
Lasagna is fine, just call it lasagna and not pizza.
Does anyone have the calzones to call it something else?
Suderman early on famously defended COVID restrictions by theorizing that without them, effectively a city the size of Dallas would be wiped out. Gillespie tried to talk him down off the ledge to no avail. So he's kind of a great bellwether for the silly beliefs that the beltway considers 'respectable.'
The worst pizza is the store brand knockoffs of Celeste. Still edible though.
The real Celeste is a clear step up from the store brand, and convenient since it only takes a few minutes to microwave.
Red Baron is better than Celeste if you don't mind waiting 20 minutes plus however long your oven takes to preheat.
My local take-out / delivery place, which will never get a NYT writeup, is much tastier than Red Baron.
#PizzaTierList
Don't Papa Murphys exist everywhere? Why buy frozen. PM is pretty damn cheap.
Maybe Santa will bring you an air frying toaster oven to make baked pizza without the hassle of using the conventional oven. Preheating unnecessary where the Maillard reaction can still occur when placing the pizza in a cold oven.
The only storebought pizza worth buying is Jack's.
If you're paying more than 2 bucks for storebought then you're wasting your money. You're not going to get 'good' pizza - only merely acceptable - and at that point you may as well go someplace local for takeout.
Red Baron is the best pizza not because it's the tastiest, but because it's cheap, abundant, and always there.
That's a warm-up mentality for "you'll have nothing, and you'll love it."
https://twitter.com/CityBureaucrat/status/1728762739353395328?t=3lxSV4J38HuHCWmryWW8HA&s=19
A TransTibetan man is menaced by the mass media and his busybody neighbors
[Video]
There’s a whole lot wrong there. Some international TG channels tend to have folks using the same branding and “it’s a peace sign” trope. Got invited to a Ukrainians channel with a bit of that. Shocker. Anyhow, the woman interviewed needs help with numbers. Eight hundred million?!?! The guy is a dink but should be allowed to keep being one.
It's California. The state is run and populated by Nazis.
Have a friend that lived in Cali. He Newsom of those.
I didn't know they could make you Tibetan now.
Anyone can self-identify however they want. Which means that racism and sexism and bigotry are 100% over.
"You're a sexist!"
"Impossible, because I'm now a woman."
"That's not true."
"I just said I was."
"That's not how it works."
"What is a woman?"
".... shut up!"
No - you can only identify as the things the Left allows you to identify.
MAP - 'just a sexuality' now.
Gender - is the same as sex and you can be anything, including stuff that isn't real. Except it is real, because you identify as it. Stop being a bigot.
Race - WOOOOOAH THERE COWBOY. Race is both a social construct and an immutable characteristic that you can't change and you had better be able to hold both mutually contradictory (except they're not contradictory because the Party says they are not) positions in your mind at the same time, able to disregard one and support the other and then disregard the other and support the one without experiencing a single moment of contradictory doubt.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1728786045678878800?t=sm_3b7-96lb_L5EK0zJgfg&s=19
That @RitchieTorres was elected to represent the US's poorest Congressional district -- only to elevate devotion to Israel as his top priority -- is highly illuminating, but requires teams of political scientists, sociologists, psychologists, and anthropologists to understand.
[Link]
Speaking out against Hamas and their crimes hardly makes it his "top priority".
And the Palestinian situation is an excellent object lesson for American minorities, because Native Americans and blacks are making similar bad choices to the people of Gaza, and they suffer the consequences.
Their choices aren't quite as bad as those of Gazans, mostly because I think the people of the Navajo Nation understand that it would go very poorly for them if they started chucking Katyushas at Albuquerque. Even if they were careful to aim for the air force base and avoid civilian casualties.
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1728807354672521375?t=u6TQWNUJeiMquJWC66foVg&s=19
People are now calling for arrest if you walk down a public street and they disagree with you
[Link]
Yet what you link for is someone explicitly saying the opposite.
And the opinion expressed really isn't that edgy by all kinds of standards.
Somebody thinks some person showing up somewhere is incitement. Did they arrest David Duke? Was the National Guard sent in to make sure they could attend? Did the Capitol police shoot anybody dead? No? Some people expressed opinions on Twitter? Welcome to 2023. Grow the fuck up.
1. The origin of pizza is found in myth. In the "Aeneid", Aeneas and his crew use baked dough as plates for their food when they first arrive in Italy. After eating their food, they eat the baked dough (thus fulfilling a curse laid on them by the Harpies that they would be so hungry they'd eat their plates or tables). This was not the first pizza. The first pizza would have been at the next meal, when they would have realised that they could cook the food and the dough "plates" together.
2. Most NY slices are pretty good for what they are, without needing to go far afield. There is no single perfect American pizza against which NY slice joints (including on LI) should be measured.
FWIW when I first tried Di Giorno pepperoni, I thought it was pretty good, but I think they changed their recipe - the pepperoni got worse and thinner, and the sauce got sweeter. TJ's have had pretty good thin crust pizzas.
But I still yearn for the hole-in-the-wall pizza places I experienced in Italy, where you order by weight in etti (1 etto = 1/10 kg) and the pizza comes out in huge rectangular trays, looking more like a thinner foccacia with toppings. I have never eaten a pizza of any type in the US that tasted the same - though this isn't to say that even the best pizzas in America aren't as good. They can be, but are just different.
How was your Mussolini pilgrimage?
I couldn't find the sacred lamp-post, so, disappointing. Plenty of Trump supporters here would vote for a Mussolini, of course.
Do you have a list of them? Those Trump supporters here that would vote for a Mussolini?
Why did you ask me how my Mussolini pilgrimage was?
At least I have an argument that an authoritarian right-wing type who is happy to support a populist leader who demonises opponents and talks in nationalistic terms will be happy to support a populist leader who demonises opponents and talks in nationalistic terms
No list?
All we have to do is compare the policies Mussolini enacted and his public statements, with the current policies and statements of various American political parties and their supporters here.
And then we should be able to suss out a list.
It is amazing how the dumbest posters here all push the same lie and narrative in regards to Mussolini being on the right. No matter how many times we post his policies and his statements.
Mussolini: "I am a radical atheist and a socialist who believes that corporatist socialism and social engineering are the paths the nation must take."
Average Democrat: "Mussolini is right-wing, because after the war the Soviet's insisted. I am very smart."
Oh. there is no doubt that Mussolini started off as a socialist, so it's no surprise that the same cretins who think that the Democratic Party of 1860 is the same party as of 2023 think that he remained one. despite his assault on socialists and communists later on.
https://www.history.com/news/mussolini-italy-fascism
One wonders what cognitive impairment afflicts these cretins.
So diet shrike gets criticized for repeating narrative and ignoring primary sources, platform policy, his own syatements.... theb refutes it by posting a narrative. Lol. Shrike did the same thing. Weird huh?
He even tried to throw in the southern strategy narrative.
Narratives over facts. Actually reading a book and primary sources is too much work for idiots.
“so it’s no surprise that the same cretins who think that the Democratic Party of 1860 is the same party as of 2023 think that he remained one”
What is the Democratic party in 2023 doing differently than the Democratic party in 1863 or 1963 when comes to Blacks?
"despite his assault on socialists and communists later on."
He attacked Communists certainly, but socialized Italian industry and banking and claimed to be a socialist until the day he died, you dishonest fuck... and economic fascism is a form of socialism. Literally. It's the union of the corporate with the state, that's the fucking official description.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_syndicalism#Mussolini_and_his_fascist_regime
Missed the Biden red speech, Hillary before him, Obama before her…
Mussolini was an anti-capitalist radical left wing politicians and a totalitarian. Those views are represented in the Democratic party these days. They have nothing to do with Trump or the GOP.
It is true that Mussolini was a nationalist, but all moderate parties are historically nationalist. It is only socialists/communists who believe that class interests transcend national boundaries.
Shorter Chumby:
"I will unfairly accuse you of supporting fascists. But I will get pissy if the same tactics are applied to my team."
No list?
Why did you refer to a Mussolini pilgrimage, Chumpy?
Post the list.
Why would I vote for a left wing socialist authoritarian? That’s your thing.
Bull. It's not like Trump demonized an entire group of people and blamed them for all the country's problems, demonized the press, and ordered industries around in the name of national defense.
Fucking idiot.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/535157-biden-to-order-agencies-to-use-defense-production-act-in-coronavirus-fight/
President Biden released his national strategy to end the COVID-19 pandemic Thursday, which will include using the Defense Production Act (DPA) and other powers to speed up the manufacturing of testing and vaccine supplies and other items needed to fight COVID-19.
Even NYT calls your narrative wrong. Lol.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/health/Covid-Trump-Defense-Production-Act.html
You forget the part where your precious Trump ordered GM and other companies to make ventilators.
And I criticized him for it at the time as you ignore Biden and left doing it without an actual emergency in your incessant need to only attack the right. Weird huh.
*snort*
Principles amuse you huh?
The funniest thing is everything you complain about Trump doing the dems have done way worse. But you always rush in to only go after Trump.
This skit is mocking you. The great Jim Breuer.
https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1728119313700192665
See? Jesse once criticized Trump! That makes him totally not a Republican!
Fuck off you fat piece of shit. You’re just mad because we tore you apart yet again.
Own your failure.
When Biden uses the Defense Production Act ostensibly to fight COVID: it's because he's a creeping fascist who hates America
When Trump uses the Defense Production Act ostensibly to fight COVID: it's because he's well-intentioned, he had no choice, stop picking on Trump, you have TDS!!!!!!!
Trump's Deranged Supporters (TDS) are indeed deranged.
No you drunk pussy. You and your fat groomer Marxist friend are deranged.
It is amazing how the shrike like posters here are all ignorant to the socialist writings of Mussolini. Have you tried ever reading a book and primary sources instead of wiki?
As I noted above, you diabetic fuckwit, Mussolini started out a socialist, and no-one who knows anything doubts it. But he moved away from it later on, as anyone who knows anything also knows. Perhaps, therefore, you're merely lying for debating purposes.
Post your primary evidence. His own words from the year he died have been posted here you fucking moron. He never stopped being a socialist. Fascism was always socialism. Just the change in mechanism, the intent was the same. He stated that until the day he fucking died dumbass.
You are such an ignorant fool you accept narrative over actual statements from Mussolini. You are truly a useful idiot.
This is why you dont post any actual statements from him while you call those who have as being wrong. It is fucking hilarious. Just trust blindly every narrative because youre so intellectually lazy.
I doubt it. Mussolini's political program was almost identical to that of the Democrats today.
^^^ Stupidest comment of the day, won against considerable competition.
You wrapped that up rasily buddy. Was a tough fight with Jeff though.
The similarity and close connection between US progressivism and 20th century European fascism is just a historical fact.
But you're welcome to discuss the differences, SRG2. I'm sure you'll come up with something.
The story really wasn’t about pizza.
And there were some posts by other posters that had nothing, not even tangentially, to do with the story, that you didn't complain about and that you even responded to - still off-topic. So what the fuck are you whining about?
Didn’t mean to hurt you so badly.
You're a brutal man, DLAM. How dare you.
It's one of these odd things about you schneeflocken - you're so sensitive and you imagine others are equally sensitive.
And yet here you are, crying about their posts.
But somehow we're the snowflakes.
LOL. No pain at all. And you're still a whining fuckwit.
I’ve eaten that type of pizza in Italy – it was garbage. Maybe if you get it right out of the oven but most places that sold it made it the night before and it was re-heated the next day as you ordered it.
My other posts notwithstanding, I'm not trying to insult you here. Its just that when I lived in Sardegna and in port visits to other parts of Italy, I didn't find their pizza to be all that good.
Red Baron "pizza" is highly processed food; it is "best" at making you fat, sick, and food addicted. It also has next to nothing to do with actual Italian pizza.
It tastes OK after quickly drinking four 8% alcohol beers.
Red Baron is fine, as far as frozen pizza goes, which isn't far.
Freschetta is better though.
"Di Fara is located on Avenue J in a heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood of Brooklyn called Midwood. Taking the subway from Manhattan takes the better part of an hour"
Let's see. That distance is about 8 miles by crow, 10-12 by car or foot. And the noble subway takes an hour? That's about as fast as a horse. Progress!
IT's about 3/4 mile from the nearest subway. If you take the F train from Herald Square, it's about 40 minutes plus the walk.
Out in the suburban hellscape, one could jump into their air conditioned car with 13 speaker sound system, drive 5 minutes and park right in front of the pizza joint like a civilized person.
I see you are visiting a pizzeria that uses a wood-fired oven. Do you have a permit for this? Step out of the car please, sir.
Wood, ppffft.
Do it right, use coal in that oven.
If mine used wood it would probably be scrap lumber salvaged from trash piles around here;)
Yeah, but getting your food in suburban comfort would not be "authentic".
JFC, I can be at a pizza place 10 miles from me, sitting down, enjoying a beer while waiting for my order to be made in about 20 minutes.
*Why* does anyone who isn't fairly wealthy live in NYC again?
You are such a complete and total fucking loser, MacAdoodle.
Besides, I thought you were supposed to be leaving ti get a job with the New York Times a while ago. What happened with all that? Why are you even still here, with your sad career stuck in neutral, going nowhere?
Frozen bugs are the most delicious best protein.
The response from those that have indulged:
*crickets*
8/10
Now available at Grub Hub
I refuse to eat anything made from crickets unless they can guarantee the crickets were raised humanely.
Each cricket should have one cubic meter of space (or better yet, free-range crickets), and be fed by a trained and certified union-only cricket-keeper, with fresh water from an eye dropper. Otherwise, eating bugs is just too inhumane to the bugs.
Yeah but the food inspector Nazis limit our bug content on frozen pizza.
Haven't read the comments yet but as far as I'm concerned the best pizza in the USA is Jets Detroit 8 corner square. Can't buy it in shithole Illinois but I always bring a couple home when I go to MI.
There is (or was) a Jets in Joliet. We have two Jets in AZ.
Did not know that. I'll map it. Thanks.
Looks like there a quite a few around Chicago and the burbs. Closest to me is 47 miles.
Essington & Caton Farm, not too far off I-55.
Personally I think the best frozen pizza is Home Run Inn but it pales to what you can get at their for real restaurant. Actually it pales to what you can get at many pizza joints.
Chicago Deep Dish was invented by Texan Ike Sewell, he was intending to open a Mexican restaurant but decided to fuck up pizza instead. If he had gone with his original plan people would be arguing about deep slop tacos. Deep dish is just for tourists or out of staters that move to suburbia.
Get a tavern style pizza. Those are what the locals eat in NE Illinois. Giordano’s, Malnati’s, and Aurelio’s all sell them.
Deep dish is just for tourists or out of staters that move to suburbia.
As someone who fits the description of “out-of-stater that moved to suburbia” and who grew up in a place where regional mom-and-pop pizza was made with Kroger-brand low-moisture part-skim mozzarella and Jimmy Dean sausage; this post comes across as elite, urban Chicago gadflies trying to distinguish themselves by forsaking their own culture and looking down on anyone and everyone around them, especially if they come from more red portions of the country, in aspirations of being more like more elite New York, own-fart-sniffers like Suderman.
Frozen HRI is inedible and I say that as someone who has more than once consumed tuna and kale in the same smoothie. Even my teen kids won’t eat it and one of them once ate a boutique soap bar by mistake. HRI’s in-house stuff is OK, but the frozen stuff is worse than white label.
The idea that frozen HRI is good and deep dish is for the tourists says more about your attachment to reality than it does about reality itself. Ike Sewell could’ve fucked up pizza and failed anywhere. Instead he moved to Chicago, revolutionized pizza for the next 50+ yrs., and transformed Chicago from second (or third) worst leftist shithole run by crooked, elitist natives to second (or third) worst leftist shithole run by crooked, elitist natives with some good pizza.
This is possibly the dumbest thing ever written in Reason. Even the best frozen pizza is pretty meh.
Even the whole concept of frozen pizza isn't great. It's basically a sign that people are too tired and too poor to make and eat real food and must instead consume factory produced slop
Few people have a kitchen equipped to make restaurant-grade pizza at home. Home ovens just aren't hot enough.
Peter misrepresents that wait at Di Fara. Yes, it takes about 5 minutes...once they get to your order. The actual wait for my 2 slices was nearly an hour.
Fantastic pizza but it's a small operation. If there is full pie orders ahead of you prepare to wait. Worth it though. One of the best pies I've had. John's of Bleecker is great too.
Well, they're right about it not being made in Chicago, that's not even pizza. But the best pizza is definitely not frozen.
Cool story, bro. I'll remember to cross you off the list of "People who get to pick the restaurant when we go out."
What next? The greatest steak is actually SPAM?
That would be Steak-umm
He's out of line, but he's right.
This actually reminds me of a big food pet peeve. Famous Amos cookies.
The original Famous Amos cookies were amazing. Gourmet cookies Almost something like out of a bakery or your oven (if you were a good baker).
But then he sells out to a giant corporation. Now they are hard, heavy processed mix of cheapest ingredients possible, all the same size and shape, lumps of processed food stuff, essentially sweetened kibble
Looks like the Team Nardz position is getting some traction.
https://www.prri.org/research/threats-to-american-democracy-ahead-of-an-unprecedented-presidential-election/
…true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country
Like in 1776?
You always assume that the violence is only ever going to come from 'the right', ignoring the multi-decade-long history of violence from the Left, including acceleration over the last 3 years.
Its not rural redneck militias that are forming shoplifting gangs in major Democrat-run cities.
Its not Cletus that's beating up Jews and Asian in random attacks on the street.
Bubba and company weren't setting cities on fire in 'fiery but mostly peaceful protests'.
"Its not Cletus that’s beating up Jews and Asian in random attacks on the street."
Chemjeff's compatriots spent 2020 violently rioting, then three years of mandates and political prosecutions, and now every weekend it's Jew hunts and Kristalnacht but somehow the people who think that's bad are the danger.
I am citing a poll result. I am not assuming anything here.
One-third of Republicans (33%) today believe that true American patriots may have to resort to violence to save the country, compared with 22% of independents and 13% of Democrats.
Statistically speaking, at this moment in time, yes, it is going to be "Bubba and company" (with Nardz) that is going to be initiating violence to "save the country". Bitch all you want about left-wing violence. Of course there is violence from the left. But as your team is fond of continually pointing out, your team has "all the guns", right?
Because polls are more accurate information than direct observation of what's actually happening.
*Statistically more likely* - except that its *actually* the LEFT doing it for real, right now. Ie, the Left has a 100% statistical likelihood of doing it. Because they're doing it.
Don't confuse him with reality.
Since so many people have mentioned Lou Malnati's:
https://www.tastesofchicago.com/lou-malnatis-shipped-by-tastes-of-chicago/?utm_source=LM&utm_medium=Web&utm_campaign=Global_Nav&utm_content=LMShippingPage
Choosing the best pizza is difficult. As is choosing the stupidest Reason writer. I'm going to give Suderman the award for November 26, 2023.
Red Baron World War II airplanes?
I guess one world war is as good as another.
Peter has never tasted a Mr Gattis Pizza.
With its poor taste and sacrifice of judgment to political ideals, this may be the most libertarian article ever. Stupid.
I wonder if Peter’s intention was to create this abomination of a comment section. Does a strange ode to convenience food lead to such savage responses? Wow. You people (the 10 or so regulars) are weird buggers. Before replying how about thinking about the positive side of life over a beer and slice?
The comment section is mostly ongoing conversations that don't necessarily relate to the article.
I still prefer the fresh ones, but is a personal preference. Actually, i never tried the frozen one agencia de marketing digital
Anyone arguing ANYTHING made on an assembly line is the best ANYTHING, has never had ever good whatever it is.
The goal is equally shared misery.
Reason you failed me. I was wait for you to blame Trump on frozen pizza quality