Don't Trust a Model U.N. Nerd

Plus: Four-day ceasefire between Hamas and Israel, teen activists, anti-murder billboards, and more...

Sam Altman reinstated: Early this morning, news broke that Sam Altman had been reinstated as OpenAI's CEO, ending five days of tech world drama.

It's looking more and more like the board's defense they gave for firing him—that he was not "consistently candid" in his communications with them—was no cover for a smoking gun, but rather the culmination of petty drama and tensions between those who want artificial intelligence development to slow down, believing the future of humanity is imperiled by this technology, and those who see its value and want to forge ahead. (Disclosure: My husband works for OpenAI.)

The unique structure of the company—a nonprofit oversees the for-profit subsidiary—made it so the fiduciary duty of the board was to "humanity, not OpenAI investors." Problems ensued. Board member Helen Toner, an academic at Georgetown's Center for Security and Emerging Technology, had earlier this year published a research paper critical of OpenAI's safety efforts, but complimentary of those undertaken by Anthropic, the company's chief rival. "Any amount of criticism from a board member carries a lot of weight," said Altman to Toner via email, per The New York Times.

Toner also publicly pushed back, via an article in Foreign Affairs, on some of the things Altman said in a testimony to Congress; she lived in Beijing for nine months and has written that, in the artificial intelligence arms race between the U.S. and China, actually China is far behind, so far behind that "regulating AI will not set America back" and "an inflated impression of Chinese prowess should not prevent the United States from taking meaningful and necessary action now."

Altman, on the other hand, has welcomed regulation but also cautioned that there are geopolitical implications to stifling American AI development as global competitors forge ahead.

The board should destroy the company? Cut ahead to this past week, when Toner—a 31-year-old former Model U.N. kid from Australia, who has been widely criticized as underqualified for a board position—allegedly said that the board's duty is to humanity, so destroying the company would be consistent with that. Now, Toner is out, and some loud voices on Twitter are chalking it all up to misogyny, as if everything has a culture war component at all times.

Now, former Twitch CEO Emmett Shear is out as CEO of OpenAI. Economist Larry Summers and former Salesforce CEO Bret Taylor are joining the board, alongside existing board member/Quora CEO Adam D'Angelo. In essence, this new political compass is correct, and though the drama might dissipate, the broader tensions are not going away anytime soon.

Hostage deal: Israel and Hamas just agreed to a four-day pause in fighting during which 50 Hamas hostages will be returned to Israel, and 150 Palestinian prisoners currently held by Israel will be returned to Gaza. The pause will allow more humanitarian aid to reach Gazans in need, and the Israeli government has also declared that "the release of every 10 additional hostages will result in an additional day in the pause."

Hostages will not be released until tomorrow at the earliest. "Our hands will remain on the trigger," said Hamas, and "our victorious brigades will remain on the lookout to defend our people and defeat the occupation and its aggression." All statements from Hamas and Israel relating to the deal can be found here, via Al Jazeera.

Aid sites hit: "The Biden administration has been providing Israel with the location of humanitarian groups in Gaza for weeks to prevent strikes against their facilities," reports Politico. But this has not dissuaded the Israeli military from hitting those areas. "Israel's continued bombardment of these humanitarian facilities raises more questions about whether Washington has the political sway many in the administration want with Israel."

Aid workers have said that the Israeli military's commitment to protecting humanitarian groups from strikes has been stronger in the past, but that they are showing less concern for those sites now. "We don't see eye-to-eye on what they consider collateral damage or military necessity and what we consider a very high civilian toll, whether it's in life or in infrastructure, including ours," a United Nations official told Politico.

---

Scenes from New York: 

Eric Adams: secret libertarian?

In response to Mayor Eric Adams's budget cuts, libraries are cutting Sunday service ???? pic.twitter.com/rmmGGq1UV7

— Emma G. Fitzsimmons (@emmagf) November 16, 2023

What a monster! https://t.co/filCOWyDDc

— Liz Wolfe (@LizWolfeReason) November 22, 2023

---

QUICK HITS

• Happy Thanksgiving! I am grateful for each and every one of you, dear Roundup readers. Tell me in the comments if you're making any good pies this year. I did apple (homemade crust, of course) and goat milk/honey with a pecan crust that takes the place of a traditional pecan.
• "AAA, the automobile owners' group that also tracks air travel, expects that 4.7 million people will fly between Wednesday and Sunday. That is an increase of 6.6 percent compared with last year, and the highest number of Thanksgiving air travelers in nearly two decades," reports The New York Times. It's beautiful that COVID didn't eliminate people's desire to endure the indignities of travel, congregate in large groups, and stuff their faces. For a minute there, it looked like the shut-ins would win.
• Bloomberg's Joe Weisenthal on prediction markets: "Getting a sense in real time how people want to price various near-term outcomes is useful in understanding an unfolding story."
• Is former New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo trying to replace Eric Adams as mayor? Lord help us.
• The public service announcements have gone too far: 

anti-murder billboards are an incredibly effective economic indicator

my hometown just got its first pic.twitter.com/6utC7D0JLl

— Will Manidis (@WillManidis) November 20, 2023

• Binance's CEO Changpeng Zhao, most frequently referred to as CZ, pleaded guilty to money laundering violations. He will pay a $50 million fine, and the crypto giant will pay a $4.3 billion fine, but will be allowed to continue to operate.
• This:

Can we please dispense with the media lionization of "teen activists," as if a person is blessed with some moral purity of soul by virtue of their youth? Teenagers are among the most garbage people on earth, and easily conned by even worse adult garbage people https://t.co/BXZba4xDgl

— David Burge (@iowahawkblog) November 21, 2023

 

Comments

[Chumby]

Politicians such as Biden are like Biden’s diapers and should be changed often for the same reason.

[Don't look at me!]

Politics should not be a career.

[sarcasmic]

No government job should be a career with the exception of the military.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Park ranger seems like it would be pretty fun, as long as it wasn't at one of the tourist-ridden parks. Edward Abbey's writing on his time as a ranger at Arches is a hoot. I especially liked his rant about how rangers need to get off their ass and actually get out into the wilderness to learn about the places they're responsible for overseeing.

[CedricDebbie]

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[Chinny Chin Chin]

I think it was that same book that Abbey advised that people be "halfhearted fanatics". That is, to have goals in life, but also remember to have fun.

[ConnorBarrenger]

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[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

And despite being held up as an environmental saint, Ed often recommended throwing empty beer cans out the window (while driving, of course).

[Ersatz]

which part is the fanatic part? the having goals or the having fun?
'Cause from what I see of the newer generations the only goals they have are 'eat the rich' or things like that.

[sarcasmic]

I especially liked his rant about how rangers need to get off their ass and actually get out into the wilderness to learn about the places they’re responsible for overseeing.

They probably do during the first couple years, which reinforces my point.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Some of them do. When we went to Natural Bridges this summer, we ran into three of them on two separate days who were walking through the monument's entire canyon area. That was pretty impressive considering how rugged and hot it is there that time of year.

[R Mac]

I actually looked into it after I graduated high school. They don’t make much money (at the time, that might have changed) and my future wife wasn’t interested in going and living in the middle of nowhere.

[Idaho-Bob]

You have to find a wife FROM the middle of nowhere. 🙂

[R Mac]

Pretty happy with the one I’ve got. And although we didn’t end up in the middle of nowhere, we did end up in the woods.

[Idaho-Bob]

The middle of nowhere is awesome until you need a *thing* immediately and the nearest town is 15 miles away.

Can't prep for everything.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, they don't make shit--mostly GS-9 pay, at best--and the work is largely seasonal so you have to really hustle to keep up on the job openings. The NPS is so incestuous, though (and that's no joke, a lot of their jobs won't look at anyone who didn't do at least some time in the system), that once you get a year or two in, you get put way up on the hiring list. I've seen job ads for positions at places like Bent's Fort that were clearly written for someone who was already working at the site and was going to get hiring preference.

A gal I went to grad school with did two years at Bandelier doing GS-4 shitwork like tearing tickets at the park entrance. She ended up getting an archivist job at Yosemite after that, and is now overseeing the artifact collection from Chaco that's stored in Albuquerque.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Bent's Fort is cool.

[Minadin]

My grandparents used to be rangers at Rocky Mountain, Grand Lake side. Some days in winter we might be the only people in the park.

[Don't look at me!]

..so the fiduciary duty of the board was to "humanity, not OpenAI investors."

I guess Open AI investors aren’t human?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Correct, they are kulaks that must be purged for the glory of the revolution, comrade.

[R Mac]

It’s the royal humanity.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Gosh, who could have expected that promoting ESG could have incentivized this kind of opinion?

[Unable2Reason]

So don't worry about China, eh? I think they grossly underestimate the speed at which China can steal itself into the lead. Ever notice how their top line fighter jets looks surprisingly just like the ones we developed to the tune of billions and billions of dollars?

[I, Woodchipper]

why should i care? serious question

[Jerry B.]

If you don’t mind paying for all the R&D, testing, etc. and then have China steal all that and cut their time from start to production in half, you shouldn’t.

[JesseAz]

Security costs from theft add to end user domestic costs. Same way a tariff does. Not sure why some people don't care about the former while screaming about the latter.

[Mother's Lament]

Jiminy Cricket! Liz posted Iowahawk drollery!

Another reason why my girl is so based.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

That's quite a story. Chaining the doors shut and setting a building on fire is being pretty damned serious about killing people.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Wait, what happened?

[Don't look at me!]

I spent some time shelling pecans for a pie. Will be worth it.

[Chumby]

Saw a recipe for a dehydrated plum pie that was actually decent. About the same time, began experimenting with that 1980s astronaut orange drink as a sweetener in lieu of sugar. It gives the recipes a hint of citrus flavor. Anyhow, some folks may find Prune Tang Pie delicious.

[Don't look at me!]

Something fishy about that story.

[Chumby]

You’ll want to get your piece before another manages to snatch it.

[Don't look at me!]

I hate it when someone else leaves some cream on the pie.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Wang Dang! Ted Nugent approves.

[TheReEncogitationer]

You and Liz and all readers may want to cleanse the palate with Vinegar Pie or smooth things down with a tongue-bathing of Buttermilk Pie too.

Both are real desserts, and they do not taste at all like their names. The caramelization process in baking them takes their eponymous flavors out and leaves a custard-textured filling. Chill, then serve, and let them simply melt in your mouth!

My first batches of Buttermilk Pie and Vinegar Pie came from The Lowell House Restaurant in Lowell, NC 29 years ago. Patti LaBelle’s Good Life™ also makes a great commercial mass-produced Buttermilk Pie that will give you “A New Attitude” and make you “Itchie-kitchie-ya-ya" with ecstasy and delight!

Here are recipes for your dining, dancing, and Moulin Rouge fetish-y pleasure!
🙂
😉
Vinegar Pie
https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/vinegar-pie

Buttermilk Pie
https://www.yummly.com/recipe/Buttermilk-Pie-2119516?prm-v1

[Jerry B.]

I used to make buttermilk pie all the time, but when my scale started screaming, I cut back to once a year.

[Chumby]

When you do indulge, butter milk it for all you can.

[Anomalous]

Sounds good! Box some up for me.

[JesseAz]

Apologies to shrike since he always posts political child porn cases so I'm sure he would post this one.

Pete's mentor, former dem mayor, sentenced to 30 years for child porn from around the world.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/11/former-lgbt-activist-democrat-maryland-mayor-receives-30-years-in-child-porn-case/

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Heh. Now you know Shrike only posts them when it's a Republican caught. But, of course, he is so totes not a Democrat. Just ask him, and ask his opinion on Media Matters, "the mostest bestest neutral nonpartisan place ever ever".

[Mother's Lament]

Buttplug would never ever ever ever post a story about a Democrat getting caught.

[Zeb]

Happy Thanksgiving! I'm making an apple pie. Mt mom says mine is the best.

[sarcasmic]

What kind of apples do you use?

[Zeb]

Macintosh or cortland is what I like to use. I like finer grained and more tart apples.

[Chumby]

Using birthing grandperson Smith apples would make it tartier.

[R Mac]

Wouldn’t it have to be a non-birthing person to be a tart?

[Zeb]

I'm not a fan of the flavor of Granny Smith.

[Chumby]

Not the apple of your eye? How bout dem apples.

Cortland are nice for baking and macs are an all around good variety.

[R Mac]

Thanks!

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Macoun too. Similar to Macs but tarter and firmer. Hold up well in a pie.

[TheReEncogitationer]

I love Granny Smith, but I also love softer apples for pie. Roman Apples are soft and have red streaks on the inside when you bite them. Delicious!

[Don't look at me!]

Those red streaks are worms.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Don't tell the vegans.

[TheReEncogitationer]

They were thin and weren't moving.
🙂
😉

[Idaho-Bob]

There are two apple trees on my property from the original homestead. I don't know what they are, but they look Jonathon-ish, and make great pie filling.

[Zeb]

They could well be unique cultivars that don't exist anymore. There are lots of apple varieties of the past that don't exist anymore because grafting is the only way to keep a particular variety going.

[Idaho-Bob]

On topic interesting read:

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2023/jun/15/rediscovered-apple-variety-found-on-chinese-americ/

[Chumby]

Yup. Apple seeds don’t produce true to type of the parent tree. The “wild” apple trees that deer congregate around before doing so at other wild apple trees may be the tastier variety.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Always good to have fruit built-in to your real estate! My Grandpa had a Crabapple tree, a Plum tree, and a Japanese Cherry Tree. One boyhood home had muscadine vines hanging in the woods that shed little muscadines in October. The fruit from all of them was simply wonderful!

[Idaho-Bob]

I also have a couple cherry trees and wild huckleberries on the property. Made some huckleberry 'shine this year. It should be ready by Christmas.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Your secret's safe with me and embibe with pleasure!
🙂
😉

[txgordo]

yep - that's what my Mom used. Macs and Corts give the right amount of tartness and crunch. We're sticking with pecan (we live in the South, now, y'all!) and pumpkin.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Local Baker is from the south. She makes a chocolate bourbon pecan pie that is out of this world.

[TheReEncogitationer]

"Mt mom"? I'm not touching that one.
🙂
😉
Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy!

[sarcasmic]

Tell me in the comments if you're making any good pies this year.

Got the ground pork ready for the tourtiere.

[sarcasmic]

I should get a can of red salmon and make a salmon pie as well.

[Zeb]

That sounds really good. Love some good meat pie.

[sarcasmic]

With some cranberry sauce on the side to add sweet to the savory. Yum.

[Commenter_XY]

Post the recipes! 🙂

[Minadin]

I'm doing a French Silk instead of my traditional Sweet Potato.

[DesigNate]

I’m lazy and bought pie this year: one pumpkin, one Dutch apple.

[Chumby]

I suggest any leftovers could be used to make Cuban sammiches.

[JesseAz]

Bodycam video shows MPD officer talking about going undercover pretending to be antifa at J6.

https://justthenews.com/government/security/jan-6-video-captures-officer-saying-we-go-undercover-antifa-crowd

[R Mac]

I’m sure there’s a legitimate law enforcement reason for that.

[Chumby]

I agree that the extended version is much better than the original theatrical release where the studio had final cut.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

He'd fit right in.

[JesseAz]

Another story for shirke regarding dem party rejecting a Jewish Caucus from forming in the state.

Jenkins said many members of the progressive caucus are against the Jewish Caucus affiliating with the NCDP and that they may boycott the 2024 election should the party decide to affiliate.
.
"If the Democratic Party caves to it, that’s the end of the Democratic Party," Jenkins said. "We’re not Democrats. We’re the Jewish Caucus. We’re a Zionist group. Because they control everything."
.
"[If the caucus is approved,] we’re telling them very clearly they are allowed to threaten and bully us, and they will get their way every single time and that our rules don’t apply," he continued.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/north-carolina-progressive-dem-says-allowing-jewish-caucus-end-party-they-control-everything

[Mother's Lament]

According to Buttplug rhetoric this means the North Carolina Democratic Party are conservatives and Republicans.

[R Mac]

Turd lies.

[Sevo]

I've heard this, and it certainly is true.

[Mother's Lament]

turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[TheReEncogitationer]

As a citizen of The Tarheel State, I find this brazen Anti-Jewish sentiment embarrassing, though not a surprise from the State where William Dudley Pelley's Silver Shirts of the 1930s and Virgil Griffin's Ku Klux Klan both hailed, and where Eugenics Boards didn't finally shut down until 1973. Democrats were historically Jim Crow types in "The Old North State" as well.

If ever a State could use Libertarianism, it is this one.

[Jerry B.]

Mr. Jenkins probably wouldn’t have a problem with the Jew-killing Progressive Pro-Hamas Caucus.

[JFree]

the culmination of petty drama and tensions between those who want artificial intelligence development to slow down, believing the future of humanity is imperiled by this technology, and those who see its value and want to forge ahead.

I doubt those on the side of ‘slow down’ had/have any idea of serving the future of humanity beyond serving themselves as power guardians. But it is 100% certain that the side of speed up, Big Tech, and VC business models will produce the most unethical possible implementation of AI that will mostly serve to make slavery profitable, theft ethical, and a surveillance/manipulation state ubiquitous.

[TheReEncogitationer]

The Corprativism of Government choosing winners and losers is what makes such Hobson's choices inevitable. Maybe Libertarian-minded AI creators could create AI that would self-sabotage if commanded to violate human Life, Liberty, and Property.

[JFree]

imo – a libertarian-minded creator would base an AI product around Hayek’s Use of Knowledge article.

the knowledge of the circumstances of which we must make use never exists in concentrated or integrated form but solely as the dispersed bits of incomplete and frequently contradictory knowledge which all the separate individuals possess. The economic problem of society is thus not merely a problem of how to allocate “given” resources—if “given” is taken to mean given to a single mind which deliberately solves the problem set by these “data.” It is rather a problem of how to secure the best use of resources known to any of the members of society, for ends whose relative importance only these individuals know. Or, to put it briefly, it is a problem of the utilization of knowledge which is not given to anyone in its totality.

That is 100% opposed to any VC or BigTech model. In theory I can see how an AI model could be distributed to everyone – where the training would be fully decentralized and customizable by everyone – so that that AI would truly then be the knowledge enabler and property of everyone. For that AI to be at everyone’s service for their own ends for their entire life. Maybe even as a birthright of citizenship. But even that is not possible for an American ‘libertarian’ to contemplate. Maybe more of a Pirate model with elements of wiki, blockchain, and open sourcing.

[TheReEncogitationer]

So-called "contradictory knowledge" is, well, a contradiction in terms. If two statements about the same thing in reality at the same time and in the same respect are contradictory, then one statement is not knowledge.

Also, AI doesn't have to be a "birthright" any more than a smartphone. AI will become the tool of every person whenever (or if ever, assuming Government gets it's mitts on it) the AI is mass-produced by competitive firms or becomes self-replicating, and the prices go down to where everyone can afford AI.

[JFree]

Contradictory knowledge is how markets work. Even if it is called something else. There's no trade if both the baker and their potential customer have the same preference re the loaf of bread and the money. Trade happens if one prefers the money to the bread and the other prefers the bread to the money. That's knowledge.

The problem with 'mass produced' AI is precisely that it won't be able to incorporate the custom/personal learning that makes MY AI different than yours and suitable for what I want rather than for what you want. Otherwise, the AI is just selling your eyeballs/privacy to someone else (and lying about it).

[Idaho-Bob]

Billboard: "Real men don't murder"

Some blue haired feminist: Misogynistic!!!

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Alphabet Activist: Audrey Hale was a real man!

[Fats of Fury]

Would someone educated in the Memphis school system be able to read that sign?

[mad.casual]

Is it just me or are the "Real men don't murder" billboards way more patronizing than the "Hell Is Real" billboards?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"Islam was right about women" is still one of the best billboard trolls ever.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

I think if one's town has reached a state where it needs such a billboard, it may already be too late to reach the people it needed to.

[JesseAz]

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) is calling on “intelligent speed assistance technology” (ISA) to be mandatory “in all new cars” after a fatal accident in Nevada killed nine people.

https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/21/transportation-safety-board-proposes-dystopian-technology-to-limit-your-speed-while-driving/

[sarcasmic]

And give up all the delicious revenue from speeding tickets?

[ducksalad]

Easily solved. The system cuts in at 11 mph over the speed limit (to get to the 2nd level on fines), records the incident in flash memory, and disables the car until the cops arrive.

When they arrive, your choice is to assert your rights and deny the police access, in which case your car remains disabled and is thus subject to impoundment. Or you can allow them access to reset the system by paying an on-the-spot reset fee (unappealable) and receiving regular citations for whatever they find in the memory.

[ducksalad]

But it'll all be a moot point in 20 years when it becomes mandatory to let the AI drive your drive.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

If we even still have our own vehicles in 20 years.

[Don't look at me!]

Look at these two optimistic guys. Thinking you will be allowed to go anyplace.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Certainly nobody with a social credit/government score below 8.

[JesseAz]

Why do you need a car in your 6 minute penal colony?

[DesigNate]

That’s a conspiracy theory and a slippery slope fallacy.

[R Mac]

Right? Everyone knows we’ll get 15 minutes.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

I hadn't realized that's what Warhol was talking about at the time.

[Mother's Lament]

For those of us who have long observed that the Democrats accuse others of what they're planning to do, this is terrifying.

Scarborough Makes Doomsday Prediction for Trump Second Term: Trump Will ‘Execute’ Anyone ‘He is Allowed To’

“He will imprison, he will execute whoever he is allowed to imprison, execute, drive from the country.” Scarborough said.

Horrifying promises from the propaganda wing, seeing as everything they warned against pre-2020 they immediately started doing post.

[Mother's Lament]

Of course the eager beavers are leaking their assassination plans already.

Dan Goldman to Jen Psaki:

"It is just unquestionable at this point that [Trump] cannot see public office again. He is not only unfit. He is destructive to our democracy. He has to be eliminated.”

And remember, the reason why they hate Trump is that he stood in the way of their real target.

[Michael Ejercito]

What is their real target?

[Kyol]

Mother's Lament is referring to this Trump quote:
“In reality, they're not after me, they're after you. I'm just in the way.”

[Mother's Lament]

^Yup

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

You took that literally?

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

LOL

So much of Trump-related hyperventilating ignores the fact that he was already President for 4 years.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Donnie did threaten to execute a US General:

They include Gen. Mark Milley, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff whom Trump accused of treason and suggested should be executed.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2023/11/10/donald-trump-says-he-might-prosecute-opponents-if-elected-in-2024/71529727007/

[Chumby]

Do you believe people that post links to online cp should be executed? If not, what do you think should happen to you?

[JesseAz]

Post his actual words shrike. Not the narrative.

[Idaho-Bob]

Bullshit. From YOUR provided link:

“He’ll start throwing people in jail, and I’d be on the top of the list,” Milley has told associates, according to a long profile of the general in The Atlantic.

Milley said it himself Fucking clowns.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

Well milley bragged about working with the ccp, so yes he deserves to be executed

[Michael Ejercito]

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1437811421924954118?lang=en

“If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise,” Milley said.

Li took the chairman at his word, the authors write in the book, “Peril,” which is set to be released next week.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The stupid part is that the military brass has an absolute warboner now about China, especially the Air Force.

[NOYB2]

“He’ll start throwing people in jail, and I’d be on the top of the list,” Milley has told associates, according to a long profile of the general in The Atlantic.

The president can indeed order a court-martial of an officer for "aiding the enemy". The president could also order the AG to bring a case against Milley. In both cases, the respective legal system would decide pre-trial conditions and penalties if found guilty.

I don’t see what Milley is complaining about: that's how our justice system is supposed to work. Does Milley somehow think he is immune from any legal proceedings? His actions are at the very least questionable and it is perfectly reasonable for a court to look at them.

[Super Scary]

He seems like the type of person to worry about things like that because, deep in his heart, he wants to do that to the people he doesn't like and he's worried other people (especially his perceived enemies) are thinking the same thing.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Um, the quotes say something different, dork.

“He’ll start throwing people in jail, and I’d be on the top of the list,” Milley has told associates, according to a long profile of the general in The Atlantic.

Trump said nothing in there about executing anyone. Milley said something out of paranoia.

[Mother's Lament]

Yeah, give us the quote where "Donnie threatened to execute a US General", you lying fuck. It certainly isn't in your link.

[R Mac]

I appreciate that you’re such a consistent liar, as all your posts can be dismissed immediately.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

He must have been upset that Milley single-handedly prevented the nuclear war with China that Trump was totally about to start. (Remember you actually said that?)

Let's maintain perspective. Trump is a celeb from TV who once donated to Kamala Harris. He's not particularly ideological. He's never going to do the really great ambitious things his dumb followers expect (build a wall, drain the swamp) *or* the really terrible ambitious things #Resistance idiots fear (execute his enemies, establish a military dictatorship).

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

True. Despite his boastful aspirations, he's really just petty corrupt.

[NOYB2]

Donnie did threaten to execute a US General:

No, he did not. Trump simply stated his opinion that Milley was guilty of treason and should receive the legal penalty for that. That is not a threat, that is simply a political belief about a legal issue.

[Sevo]

turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Michael Ejercito]

Here was what Bob Woodward alleged General Milley said.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1437811421924954118

“If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise,” Milley said.

Li took the chairman at his word, the authors write in the book, “Peril,” which is set to be released next week.

Was Woodward lying?

[Idaho-Bob]

This is not only about Trump, but also the millions of Trump followers. Vilify, dehumanize, and then genocide.

Interesting times.

[sarcasmic]

Vilify, dehumanize, and then genocide.

Isn't that what Nardz and Sevo promote? Oh, but it's different because they only want to murder everyone who didn't vote for Trump, and that makes it ok.

[JesseAz]

Is this where I post you mocking 5 years for feet on the desk, Mackey getting 7 months for a meme, the shooting of an unarmed woman?

[sarcasmic]

It’s the part where you show off your stupidity and mendacity by equating the mocking of J6 apologists such as yourself with supporting everything that happened to the people involved.

[JesseAz]

You continue to act pathological about your prior statements. Doesn't it ever get old for you?

[sarcasmic]

It's not my fault you make Tony look smart.

[JesseAz]

Lol. Says the drunk homeless person.

You realize failures talking shit is amusing not effective right?

[Chumby]

I’ll agree with the half of that stating that Tony ain’t smaht.

[Idaho-Bob]

Isn’t that what Nardz and Sevo promote? Oh, but it’s different because they only want to murder everyone who didn’t vote for Trump, and that makes it ok.

Nardz and Sevo are a couple people on a comment board. It's a bit different than the MSM and the Democratic party vilifying and dehumanizing political opponents.

[sarcasmic]

The most watched cable news network isn't MSM?

[R Mac]

Nardz and Sevo are the most watched cable news network? Holy shit dude, you’ve really lost it.

[sarcasmic]

Yeah, that's what I meant in reply to him referencing "the MSM."

Holy shit you're dumb.

[R Mac]

The discussion was about Nardz and Sevo vs MSNBC. MSNBC is not the most watched cable news network.

Oh, I see what happened, you shit fOX NeWs! out of your brain, you just forgot to type it. Even though they weren’t being discussed.

Like a both sides kinda thing.

[Idaho-Bob]

MSM = mainstream media.

Yes, Fox News is part of the MSM, but I haven't seen anyone at Fox call for "eliminating" Joe Biden.

[JesseAz]

He has to justify his support of the state going against the people he hates somehow.

[DesigNate]

The most watched cable news network dehumanizes and calls for genocide of leftists?

[Super Scary]

[sarcasmic]

That's why I think the prosecution of Trump is so shameful. It's setting a precedent for prosecuting every outgoing president. If that continues, in a few decades this country will be like a third world nation where people who lose elections must leave the country or be murdered.

[Mother's Lament]

Yup.

[R Mac]

A few decades?

[JesseAz]

He is mostly concerned about the next politician it happens to. Note it isnt shameful for the creation of novel legal theories, just that it may be used again in the future. Usual excuse making for someone who still supports the prosecution of the right but finally realized it may not be a good thing.

Basically just mimicking the MSM claiming trump would do the same if he wins.

[sarcasmic]

I didn't know you had that low opinion about ML. Since he said "Yup" all you say must apply to him as well.

[JesseAz]

ML has stated clearly in the past his derision to lawfare. You have not. You've done the opposite.

[sarcasmic]

"It’s the part where you show off your stupidity and mendacity by equating the mocking of J6 apologists such as yourself with supporting everything that happened to the people involved."

[R Mac]

The holidays are a rough time for you, aren’t they?

[JesseAz]

He won't stay sober through them.

[JesseAz]

Hey. The first time you've said anything like this. Doesn't offset the last 3 years of your gleeful posts about prosecuting people you hate. But a small step. Doubt it lasts through the weekend.

[sarcasmic]

No, ass. I've said that several times. You replied to me at least once. But you of course would never bookmark or acknowledge me saying that because it doesn't fit your dishonest narrative.

[JesseAz]

Cite one other time you've said it. Cause I have a dozen of you supporting the political lawfare, mocking J6 and Trump, etc. And you do it so much I only bookmarked a few.

Bet you can't.

Again. Youre pathological.

[sarcasmic]

Like I said, you won’t bookmark or acknowledge that post because it doesn’t fit your dishonest narrative.

I could say the same thing next week and you’ll again claim it’s the very first time I said it.

Your dishonesty is as predictable as the tides.

[JesseAz]

So you can't cite you. Yet I can cite your words to prove what you've said. Interesting.

[sarcasmic]

Did you bookmark this post? No? Why not? Because it goes against your dishonest narrative? That’s what I thought.

[R Mac]

I bookmarked it for you buddy.

[JesseAz]

11 more times and you'll match the dozen I have. 500 more times you'll match the last year of your support of lawfare.

[sarcasmic]

Cite one other time you’ve said it.

I’ve told you many times that I’m not a loser like you who bookmarks posts on the comments section of a little-known magazine, because I actually have a life.

[JesseAz]

And you've been told you and Jeff forced others to bookmark past statements because of how you both constantly lie about your past statements. Lol.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

They're never going to get over the fact that he prevented Hillary from achieving what they thought was her political destiny. They were fine with Obama doing it because they'd already coronated him at the 2004 Democratic convention, they just didn't expect him to run so soon.

[sarcasmic]

[JesseAz]

Stick with this. Less evidence of your hypocrisy.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

allowed

Meaning that the courts adjudicated, found someone guilty, and then and only then, as chief executive he faithfully sees the law of land carried out. And whats the problem?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

From your lips to God's ears, Joe.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Eric Adams: secret libertarian?

Based on this vid he's clearly not a Koch / Reason libertarian.

#CheapLaborAboveAll

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Clueless as to the irony, Elon Musk sues media watchdog over report:

“This lawsuit is riddled with legal flaws, and it is highly ironic that a platform that touts itself as a beacon of free speech would file a bogus case like this that flatly contradicts basic First Amendment principles and targets free speech by a critic,” First Amendment attorney Ted Boutrous told CNN. “And in some ways it’s a dream come true for the people at Media Matters because it could allow them to use the litigation discovery process to force X to divulge all sorts of embarrassing, damaging private information that it would much rather keep secret.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/20/tech/x-sues-media-matters/index.html

[Mother's Lament]

As usual Buttplug doesn't get past the headline, but this time it's extraordinarily stupid given the discussion on this here already.

Listen, you fantastically retarded kiddiefucker, Media Matters deliberately manipulated its feed to create the false impression that X is showing advertiser ads next to ‘Nazi’ content in order to get the advertisers to drop X.

They are absolutely fucked.

[Mother's Lament]

Make the rubble bounce.

Texas attorney general opens investigation into Media Matters for 'potential fraudulent activity'

[JesseAz]

He is worried about his job.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Mr. Free Speech (irony noted) is opposed to the free speech of others. So a watchdog pointed out his support of pro-Nazi comments? Grow the fuck up, little Elon.

[Mother's Lament]

No. Your "watchdog" created a fake Nazi account and then tried to game the algorithm in order to get an ad to appear next to it's abhorent post.

It's called fraud, and you're a lying fuck.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Are you saying that they did a little rat-fucking like the GOP has mastered?

Like dressing up an actress and filming Planned Parenthood? Like the Swift-Boat Liars?

That would be amazing if true.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

A little rat fucking? You mean like the Steele Dossier, the Killian Documents? Both of which were totally fake, yet designed to discredit a Presidential candidate.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Lincoln Project tiki torches?

[Mother's Lament]

"Are you saying that they did a little rat-fucking like the GOP has mastered?"

How has the GOP "mastered" that, Buttplug?

Media Matters posted fake racist slurs and then tried to game an algorithm to get an ad to appear next to them in order to destroy an independent company's business.

When the fuck have the GOP done anything even remotely similar?

This is outright Gestapo level shit and here you are, making excuses for it on a libertarian website.

[Minadin]

Remember when you tried to claim that Media Matters was non-partisan?

[Chumby]

Gay bells ring, are you listening,
On Pluggo’s face, Soros glistening
Such a beautiful night,
when his buttplug is tight,
Walking in a pedo wonderland.

In a meadow he would bill to blow the man,
He would blow and blow and blow again.
Then he would take it up his rear end,
To take that Soros cash that he could spend.

Gay bells ring, are you listening,
On Pluggo’s face, Soros glistening,
Pluggo first decked the halls,
Then he drained Soros’ balls.
Walking in a pedo wonderland,
Walking in a pedo wonderland.

[R Mac]

A+

[InsaneTrollLogic]

So glad I'm working from home today as I was laughing out loud at this.

[DesigNate]

Filming Planned Parenthood employees discussing shit that normal people are horrified by isn’t even in the same sport as fraudulently creating an account and then trying to fuck around with the algorithm to slander a political opponent because you hate free speech.

[Mother's Lament]

Oh wow!

Is he trying to compare frauding posts with reporting what Planned Parenthood orcs are actually doing?

He's so evil.

[DesigNate]

“Like dressing up an actress and filming Planned Parenthood”

I’m assuming that’s what this was referring to.

Yeah, he deserves every ounce of scorn and derision he gets here. Just a horrible horrible human being.

[Michael Ejercito]

That depends on the evidence.

Of course, these advertisers still have a problem of Woke employees who have hissy fits simply because the ads happen to appear next to "Nazi" content.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Of course you'd champion Media Matters.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/japs-jewery-and-trannies-media-matters-presidents-bigoted-blog-haunts-current-debate

"The end result was a feed precision-designed by Media Matters for a single purpose: to produce side-by-side ad/content placements that it could screenshot in an effort to alienate advertisers," causing "all but one of the companies featured in the Media Matters piece withdrawing all ads from X, including Apple, Comcast, NBCUniversal, and IBM—some of X’s largest advertisers."

The move by Media Matters was a successful attempt to brand Elon Musk and his platform as antisemitic, after Musk took fire for agreeing with a post suggesting that liberal Jews - who "have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them," are now on the receiving end of things.

Japs, Jewry And Trannies

What happened next couldn't have been better scripted in pre-woke Hollywood. It turns out that Media Matters President Angelo Carusone wrote super antisemitic blog posts in the early 2000s, which were uncovered by the Daily Caller's Peter Hasson in 2019, and have been making the rounds of late given the Musk controversy.

In one blog post titled "Tranny Paradise," the future Media Matters president went on a lengthy diatribe against a 'tranny-loving author.'

In another post that same month, Carusone suggested in response to a male basketball coach's alleged sexual and physical abuse of female players; "lighten up Japs."

The point is that Carusone is a massive, virtue-signaling hypocrite for suggesting that Musk was antisemitic for agreeing with a defensible observation, while he himself broke several 'cardinal rules' of being a liberal wokescold.

As even the Washington Post noted at the time of the Caller article, "Carusone’s postings are indeed offensive, and if he’s going to serve as president of an organization renowned for unearthing overlooked and objectionable comments from people’s past, he deserves to be called out on his own transgressions."

Apparently a bunch of Media Matters employees hate Israel. The thing Media Matters is accusing Musk of. And hey, it's a free country - but the hypocrisy is just too thick to ignore.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Whole lotta protestething too much goin' on. "Who Watches The Watchmen?" indeed.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Let's continue, shall we?

https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1727142544818229372

NEW: Media Matters employees have publicly posted comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany, branding Israel as an apartheid state engaged in genocide and accusing it of being established through ethnic cleansing.

Regardless of one's stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict, it is noteworthy that Media Matters, an organization dedicated to denouncing individuals as antisemitic and advocating for their deplatforming and loss of advertising revenue, employs individuals who publicly make statements that many would consider highly antisemitic.

Quotes from Media Matters employees include:

1. "There are far too many parallels between Israel's tactics and the atrocities committed by Germany 80 years ago."

2. "can't tell if israel is phoning it in with dogshit PR because they think their ability to act with complete impunity is preordained, or because it is a country where one out of every ten guys runs a combination pizzeria/discothèque"

3. "Daily reminder that Israel's policy for Palestinians is ethnic cleansing."

4. "periodically checking into israel and hearing things like their finance minister saying he's a "fascist homophobe" who "won't stone gays", coupled with them doing settler pogroms on palestinians who committed no crime beyond trying to live. why do we send that shithole any money"

Media Matters consistently accuses figures like @elonmusk
, @realDonaldTrump
, and @TuckerCarlson
of antisemitism, actively encouraging advertisers and social media platforms to boycott and deplatform them.

Notably, none of these individuals are antisemitic, nor have they made statements as remotely antisemitic as those from Media Matters' own employees, exposing a stark irony in the organization's actions.

[R Mac]

Sounds like a bunch of garbage people. No wonder buttplug likes them so much.

[Mother's Lament]

This needs to be highlighted:

"Notably, none of these individuals are antisemitic, nor have they made statements as remotely antisemitic as those from Media Matters’ own employees, exposing a stark irony in the organization’s actions."

The Democrats constantly push the most disgusting racist and antisemitic shit, and at the exact same time they accuse innocent political adversaries of the same.

[Don't look at me!]

I like it when dimwits think they can outsmart musk.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

I'm sorry Elon Musk's net worth dwarfs Warren Buffett's. 🙁

Is there a reason you never gloat about Musk's wealth like you did WB's? Maybe you find it easier to live vicariously through Buffett because he's a banal Democrat whereas Musk is more heterodox?

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Elon was a big Bernie Sanders supporter in 2016 and then Yang in 2020.

He is pretty much a moron politically.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

But somehow, far less of a moron than you, twerp.

[Chumby]

Pluggo is working on his own EV vehicles targeted for children called Undresla.

[Sevo]

turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[Mother's Lament]

"Elon was a big Bernie Sanders supporter in 2016 and then Yang in 2020"

Neither time an establishment Democrat, you must be furious.
Why won't he just be With Her??

[Sevo]

turd, the TDS-addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Minadin]

"I think sometimes people forget that Media Matters was created, shaped and governed for a long time by David Brock, arguably the single most craven, deceitful and amoral scumbag DC politics has ever seen.

There was no way for anything decent to be spawned from that rotted root:"

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1726653530218619018

[Mother's Lament]

Huge: Fourth Circuit Declares Maryland's 'Handgun Qualification License' Unconstitutional

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Certain Branch Covidians here most hurt.

https://cwbchicago.com/2023/11/chicago-covid-mask-shooting-sentenced-18-years.html

When prosecutors accused liquor store security guard Chester Holmes of shooting a customer three times because they refused to put on a mask during the COVID pandemic, his defense attorney suggested that the shooting was self-defense.

“This is obviously going to be a self-defense case,” private attorney Jonathan Feldman argued during Holmes’ initial bail hearing. He summarized the case as “basically, a customer who’s unruly, who wants to put other lives at risk” by not wearing a COVID mask.

The argument didn’t go over well during that first court hearing, and it apparently didn’t become more convincing with time.

Holmes, 44, and the victim argued about the mask policy and the victim eventually walked out. But then he turned around and walked back in. When he did, Holmes met him with a drawn handgun and shot him, prosecutors said.

[txgordo]

Iowahawk and Liz Wolfe Rock! Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

[(Impeach Robert L. Peters) Weigel's Cock Ring]

It took 60 years, but I guess JFK's assassination has finally jumped the shark.

Though honestly, the cynical side of me suspects that the reason it's not getting much attention this year has a lot to do with the fact that the lefty media gutter rats really don't want to talk about the fact that his nephew is running for president as an independent and the scumbag in the White House refuses to loan him even one Secret Service agent.

[Mickey Rat]

A reason, I think, is that the Kennedy Assassination was a Boomer cultural touchstone and they are the elderly and retired class now. To most working people it is a historical event, but not a traumatic one. The Left Wing Boomers invested a lot in the "what if" of a two term Kennedy presidency and projected a lot of their political wants onto the man, that probably were not justified.

[Don't look at me!]

He got us closer to nuclear war than anyone.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Most of that projection came about because Robert turned into a massive lefty radical after JFK was killed, and his subsequent assassination essentially beatified the family for at least two generations.

[Fats of Fury]

It was traumatic because they were all kids at the time. The oldest boomers were 17. I think a lot of JFK worship died off with subsequent revelations about his personal life.
What feeds their interests are the conspiracy theories. Biden, the CIA and the FBI still refuse to release the files.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

It was my mom's 12th birthday.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Neither did Bush, Bush or Trump. Were they all in on it?

[Chumby]

Other than that Mrs. Kennedy, how was your trip to Dallas?

[JesseAz]

Eric Adams: secret libertarian?

Lol. No. He has been very up front that it is due to the cost of illegal immigrants he has had to cut services.

[Mother's Lament]

It's the WW2 era all over again. The Japanese and Nazis did the same for their troops.

Somebody is Feeding Hamas Crystal Meth to Fuel Terror Attacks

[Chumby]

Two USAF pilots blamed their use of the amphetamine on a friendly fire incident that killed several Canadian soldiers. The incident occurred in April, 2002 in Afghanistan. The pilots claimed they had been pressured by staff to use the drug.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

During World War II, they actually included benzedrine tablets in survival kits to stave off the effects of mental degradation from being stranded for too long.

[Chumby]

The current drug if choice is reportedly Dexedrine. Failed to include it in the original post.

[John C. Randolph]

So, Hamas isn't using the traditional Hasish?

-jcr

[Commenter_XY]

No, they use captagon.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Ackshuyally, the U.S. Military did this too with Crystal Methadrine, but wisely discontinued it.

For us, staying up 4 nights in a row, clawing your face up, and violent outbursts are bugs. For the Nazis, these were features.

[mad.casual]

Somebody is Feeding Hamas Crystal Meth to Fuel Terror Attacks

Yet another case of the unexpected consequences of the prohibition policies of the US Government. -Boehm(? Britschgi? Whoever.)

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

Is there as much rape cover up in the model Un as there is in the un?
Do the kids playing model un give a blanket decree that they can't face punishment for anything they do?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

The Netherlands take a turn away from the Left.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/geert-wilders-conservatives-surge-top-polls-just-days-dutch-election

Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom (PVV) has experienced a dramatic rise in popularity among Dutch voters in a matter of days, rising from fourth place to now polling joint top with the governing VVD after an impressive performance in the latest television debate.

In the most recent survey conducted by pollster MDH, the right-wing populist party strengthened its electoral position by five percentage points to reach 26 percent, on par with the party of outgoing Prime Minister Mark Rutte, now led by Turkish-born Justice Minister Dilan Yeşilgöz-Zegerius.

The increase in support appears to be at the expense of Pieter Omtzigt’s New Social Contract, the centrist party fighting its first national election, whose party’s popularity dropped by the same margin.

The Dutch mainstream media has been accused of bias concerning the exposure it gives the more establishment parties in the country in comparison to those advocating a conservative, nationalist approach, particularly regarding immigration.

Dutch voters head to the polls on Nov. 22 to elect a new government after Mark Rutte’s coalition government collapsed primarily over disagreements relating to asylum and immigration policy.

[JesseAz]

And the non existent antifa in Netherlands sent him to a hospital just a few days ago with a bottle to his head.

[Fats of Fury]

Did the farmer rebellion get memory holed? I looked in Rutte's wiki entry and "farm" does not show up.

[mad.casual]

But remember, Trump is the most dangerous man in global geopolitics... Not the fucking globalists talking openly to each other about the joys of a world where we eat nothing but bugs while ignoring people getting shot for not wearing masks.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Next thing you know, the EU will invade and take over the Netherlands, and the undesirable types will have to hide in basements and attics. Maybe some young girl will write about her short life.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

You think Mark Rutte's party is on "the Left"?

[Alan Vanneman]

So Israel is not very careful about where it drops bombs, as well as starving everyone in Gaza with a total blockade? Somehow, Israel is not looking like the good guy in this one.

[NOYB2]

Hamas is welcome to surrender themselves and their hostages any time they like. Right now, they are a terrorist organization that has murdered thousands and holds both Israelis and the entire Gaza strip hostage. What is happening is entirely Hamas's fault and responsibility.

[John C. Randolph]

Israel is exceedingly careful about where they drop bombs. If they didn't care about civilian casualties, this all would have been over on October 8.

-jcr

[Idaho-Bob]

This^

[Mother's Lament]

Worst genocide ever.

[JesseAz]

Miss those videos of Gaza taking food and fuel away from Gaza citizens huh? Shooting their own human shields who tried to leave?

[Knutsack]

To some people, they would never look like the good guy.

On the other hand, it is probably a smart move to exchange hostages for prisoners and let those 150 prisoners back into Gaza and onto the battlefield.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Those hostages would, unfortunately, have to be alive to, you know, be exchanged.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

I presume that's why they're only offering 50 back.

[Minadin]

My guess as well, unfortunately.

[R Mac]

And if that’s the case, once all living hostages are returned, what Israel has done so far to Gaza will look like childs play.

[JesseAz]

Yeah. Thats what doesn't make sense. 150 soldiers for 50 kids and 5 days to rearm Gaza.

[Knutsack]

I think it's probably a good move. Not the 5 days, but instead of keeping the 150 prisoners locked up, put them on the battlefield where they can be killed.

I'm assuming the hostages will be alive for the exchange to happen, and I assume Israel has some confirmation of this.

[Sevo]

And your anti-semetism is showing, asshole.

[Commenter_XY]

Personally, I could give two shits whether Israel looks like a good guy to you or not. Won't matter. Israel will kill every Hamas member they find, whether in gaza or anywhere else in the world.

There is nothing to negotiate with Judeocidal terrorists.

As for the civilians. If they value their lives, obey the directives of the IDF.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Israel killing Hamas members is not a problem; it's all the non-Hamas members they also kill which is the problem.

The fact is, Israel doesn't give a shit about those people, presumably because they're "different". Different religion, different race, different sexual orientation--it's all the same thing: prejudice.

[Michael Ejercito]

How careful was the U.S. about where it dropped bombs in Japan from 1941 to 1945?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

I guess not as careful as the Japanese on December 7, 1941. That makes them morally superior, right?

[Chumby]

About as careful as the firebombing of 67 cities there.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I wonder if the horrific events of past wars have ever inspired the world's nations to come together to propose a set of international rules of war to protect civilians caught up in conflicts?

Nah...

[Medulla Oblongata]

Dropping leaflets days ahead of bombing attacks on Hamas warning civilians to leave the zone? How often is that done? Except for actually NOT bombing the sites intelligence points out, it seems to me that Israel is doing quite a lot to specifically avoid civilian casualties. Conversely, having done all that to avoid them, if Hamas uses human shields and hospitals and schools, IDF is not going to lose too much sleep over collateral damage.

[roboteconomist]

Happy Thanksgiving Liz and keep up the good work!

My standby is this bourbon pecan pie recipe from Garden and Gun: https://gardenandgun.com/recipe/bourbon-pecan-pie/

Made it ever year for over a decade.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Who's afraid of Javier Milei?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/11/21/whos-afraid-of-javier-milei/

The bastions of Western liberal-elite opinion have reacted with characteristic composure to Javier Milei’s victory in Argentina’s presidential elections. ‘A victory for the far-right’, was how the New York Times saw it. The Guardian, meanwhile, opted to call it ‘a dark day for democracy’.

Reading these accounts and the many like them, you’d think Milei, a 53-year-old celebrity economist with a Wolverine hair-do, had just marched on Buenos Aires. That this ‘far-right outsider’, as the BBC called him, had effectively seized power, backed by a mass of armed Argentians. The truth, of course, is that Milei simply beat his rival, current economy minister Sergio Massa, by winning 56 per cent of the vote in the presidential run-off on Sunday.

This hyperbolic talk of Milei as a threat to democracy, of his imminent presidency providing a ‘filip for the far right around the world’, obscures far more than it reveals about what has just happened in Argentina. For Milei is not a product of some ‘far-right’ insurgency. He hasn’t been washed into power on a wave of political reaction. Far from it. The success of Milei and his upstart party, Liberty Advances, rests above all on the collapse of the Argentinian political establishment. That is the real political earthquake here.

Four out of every 10 Argentines now live below the poverty line. The state coffers are bare, with the public-debt-to-GDP ratio standing at 90 per cent. Annual inflation currently sits at a staggering 140 per cent, up from 54 per cent in 2019, which was when the centre-left coalition last won a General Election.

Enter Milei. He is the mutton-chopped form that this turn against the failed political consensus has taken. Indeed, he made his breakthrough in last August’s primaries precisely by campaigning against the corrupt political ‘caste’. That has been his key rhetorical move throughout the presidential campaign, too – to rage against ‘la casta’.

He has channelled this popular resentment towards the political establishment – this widespread anger at ‘la casta’ – by extending it towards the overgrown Argentinian state. Hence he has pledged to reduce the number of federal ministries from 18 to eight and to cut federal spending by 15 per cent of Argentina’s GDP. And he has presented these proposed cuts – symbolised by the chainsaw he has wielded at countless rallies – as an attack on the political elites who have allegedly lined their own pockets with public money.

Western pundits have of course been trying to talk him up as some sort of Trump mini-me, or an Argentinian cousin of Brazil’s hard-right former president, Jair Bolsonaro. That way he can be reduced to and portrayed as part of some global right-wing threat to the status quo.

But Milei is different from both. He hasn’t been able to ride an established political party into power, as Trump did with the Republicans. Unlike Bolsonaro, he hasn’t floated the prospect of a military coup. Instead, he has exploited his pre-political celebrity as an eccentric talk-show guest, one who combined foul-mouthed outbursts and boasts about his tantric sex life with his love of fantasy free-market economics. If anything, he’s a celebrity politician in the mould of Silvio Burlusconi rather than Trump.

[Roberta]

“Yet as anarchic as he might appear, this self-styled libertarian is also deeply illiberal, too. So while he defends drug use and ‘trans rights’, he is vehemently opposed to abortion and has pledged to hold a referendum on banning it. It all adds up to an almost incoherent mix of libertarian posturing and regressive social illiberalism.”

So all it takes to be “deeply illiberal” is being anti-abortion? Is it possible to be pro-abortion yet have some other position that alone would qualify one as deeply illiberal?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The New York Times sees everything through the lens of abortion.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

That and skin color.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Just further proof that the scumbag media are status quo-enabling partisan hacks, and absolutely nothing they say should be taken at face value.

Save the world, punch a journoslime.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

A reincarnated Silvio Berlusconi is only slightly less unappealing than another Donald Trump. He was an utter clown, corrupt as fuck and a national embarrassment.

Intrigued by Milei's pledge to close the central bank and adopt the USD as national currency. In what world does that make sense (for a country of significant size)? Bold prediction is that he hasn't any chance of actually doing that.

[NOYB2]

Toner seems thoroughly unqualified for the position of board member of an AI company.

She built her career primarily on support from "Open Philanthropy" and Dan Moskowitz, co-founder of Facebook, major Democratic donor, and mastermind behind attempts to corrupt the 2016 and 2020 elections.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

See my comment below.

[JFree]

Interesting article about the PR campaign of the IDF at the Shifa hospital.

Article doesn't even mention that it was Israel who built the tunnel and underground complex under that hospital 40 years ago before Hamas even existed.

But the PR campaign is akin to the WMD campaign before the Iraq war. Not part of any actual conflict with Hamas but PR to create a rationale for a different war. In this case, to ethnically cleanse and depopulate Gaza (sources of that objective are linked to in the article).

That PR rationale imo does help explain why the 'targeting' is so indiscriminate. There are no innocent civilians and everyone everywhere is an acceptable target. Telling everyone to move somewhere else by bombing their house is not avoiding civilian casualties - it's how ethnic cleansing happens.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Explain the MRI machine and weapons cache next to it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

What about it?
Do you know how an MRI machine works?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. Now, Jeffy, let me ask you how easy it is to turn the magnets off, and what happens to guns, ammunition, and grenades put near an MRI machine?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

I'll give a clue, Jeffy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug3e9W5H0jI&ab_channel=MRIPETCTSOURCE

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Another example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6OHy3MipS4&ab_channel=MontrealNeuro

[InsaneTrollLogic]

For even more fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BBx8BwLhqg&ab_channel=practiCalfMRI

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Well, then, you must know that the material used to make the magnet in an MRI machine is a superconductor that must remain at cryogenic temperatures in order to maintain its magnetic properties. The cryogens typically used are liquid helium and liquid nitrogen. They have to be replenished regularly because, even though they are in an insulated container, they are not perfect insulators and they slowly evaporate and bleed off. If the cryogens are not replenished, the material no longer acts as a superconductor and hence is no longer magnetic. When that happens, the magnet is "quenched" and is just a hunk of metal at that point.

So I know that some of you think that the MRI machine where the weapons cache was found was just a prop, that the hospital was a military base all along. This may be correct, but an alternative explanation may be that the MRI machine was at one time a real, functioning machine, but when the war broke out, the supply of cryogens was cut off, the magnet was quenched, and the machine no longer worked.

[Mother's Lament]

"but when the war broke out, the supply of cryogens was cut off, the magnet was quenched:

They aren't adding fresh helium to the MRI every day, Jeff. It's not like the cryogens are consumed like fuel.
An average MRI machine uses about 10,000 liters of liquid helium over its life span of 12 -15 years. Most of that is used at start up, and boil off is minor.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Thank you for posting this, because it completely illustrates not only what an idiot you are - it is completely obvious that you know absolutely nothing about MRIs - but also proves the point that I made yesterday about how you use good faith arguments as weapons no matter how honest and truthful they are.

The capacity of the liquid helium tank for a typical MRI machine is around 1700 liters, and about 4% of it will boil off per month.

Source: https://www.vertumedical.com/news/liquid-helium-in-mri-machines-use-cost-and-more/

Also, you have to replenish the tank when it gets to about 50-60% full, typically twice a year. So the boil-off is continuous, and if the liquid helium level falls too low, the magnet will quench, even if there is still some liquid helium left in the tank. So it is absolutely possible that the MRI machine was functional at some point, but then the cryogen supply got cut off before it was time to replenish the cryogens and the magnet quenched, and then the machine was useless. At that point, why not store weapons in there, or anything else?

But also, here's the thing. My argument was entirely accurate and honest. I even accounted for the possibility that the alternative scenario - that the MRI machine was completely fake and just a prop - was a possibility. But you took my entirely accurate and honest good faith argument and twisted it to sound like I was suggesting that liquid helium was consumed like gasoline in a car, or that the helium loss was so minor as to be negligible. You were dishonest in your presentation of my argument and in your presentation of how an MRI machine actually works. You were just ignorant and dishonest all around which is why argumentation with you is completely pointless, and you just demonstrated it in a completely clear fashion to me.

[R Mac]

“At that point, why not store weapons in there, or anything else?”

Because it’s still a hospital. What is the reason to store weapons there?

[Frackling Jack]

As Biden pointed out the other day, storing weapons in a hospital is a war crime. But I don't think it matters to this Radical Individualist guy.
Like folks are saying, he seems to be a nazi.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh look, it's an ML sock puppet. He was so embarrassed by how I destroyed his completely ignorant argument that he cannot respond with his own nick.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Because it's a war zone, and that is what happens in war zones. Do you have anything substantive to say about the rest of my argument? Do you have anything to say about my knowledge of MRI machines vs. ML's complete ignorance of them? Or maybe you want to complain about decimal points or something?

[R Mac]

The guns and ammo were stored somewhere else, then as soon as the MRI machine was no longer magnetic, they moved them next to it?

Yeah, go with that theory, it makes you look super smart.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Or, by time the terrorists got there, the magnet had already quenched.

[R Mac]

Terrorism is a tactic, not people. The “terrorists” were the acting government of the area the hospital was located in. They didn’t just “get there”. They were there on 10/6.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Or, the MRI clinic was run by doctors and professional administrators, not terrorists, prior to the war. Then when war broke out, most of the staff fled, the MRI machines could not be properly maintained, the magnets quenched, and terrorists used the clinic as a hideout/staging area/field hospital.

Both are possible scenarios, and since neither one of us were there on that day, we don't know which is the truth.

[Don't look at me!]

I know it doesn’t use bullets.

[JFree]

Don't need to. That stuff doesn't even remotely come close to the spin of this being some 'command center'. And nowhere near enough to eliminate hospitals and medical workers/patients as protected. As the article says if you bothered to read it. Which of course you didn't.

Those were not weapons in the hands of a Hamas fighter. The only weapons in a fighters hands at that location were - the Israeli soldiers conducting their tours for reporters in English. So who is being shielded by civilians?

I recognize that the pro-ethnic cleansing wing of the Rothbard/Rockwell caucus will favor ethnic cleansing under any and all circumstances. Especially as part of a propaganda campaign by a state. Which is why there will never be the slightest understanding of the most obvious explanation - which is that a handful of Hamas fighters took someone to hospital (of the 50,000+ injured) and were told to get that stuff out of the ER. The hospital has had little/no electricity for weeks and so the MRI room is dark and useless and unused. Only a total tool would see a handful of grab bags (not an armory) as some 'command center'.

[Jefferson Paul]

"the most obvious explanation – which is that a handful of Hamas fighters took someone to hospital (of the 50,000+ injured) and were told to get that stuff out of the ER."

Yes, I'm sure the doctors at the hospital dictated to Hamas to get their weaponry out and armed Hamas fighters just dutifully complied. Clearly that is "the most obvious explanation."

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

JFree isn't the sharpest ball in the pit.

[JFree]

Perhaps you believe that Hamas geocaches grab bags in dribs and drabs around Gaza for its weaponry.

[Jefferson Paul]

So after the doctors at the hospital ordered the Hamas militants to disarm and put the weapons in the MRI room, they just plain forgot about them and left them there.

"... believe that Hamas geocaches grab bags in dribs and drabs around Gaza for its weaponry."

I believe what there is evidence for, namely that at this hospital Hamas had stores of weapons and military supplies. You can make any inference you want from that.

[JFree]

they just plain forgot about them and left them there.

Maybe they're dead. Maybe they're still in hospital. Maybe they just left. The entirety of that cache is a tiny fraction of what a single school shooter would carry. It obviously ain't some command center no way no how. Lots of possible questions. Too bad none of those reporters were allowed to ask any questions of people outside the tour guide.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

at this hospital Hamas had stores of weapons and military supplies.

Did you even see the IDF video at the MRI clinic? The weapons found at the MRI clinic were a few guns and a few ammo belts. It was not exactly a fully-stocked weapons depot.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

If you actually look at the IDF video showing the weapons they found at the MRI center, it wasn't these huge caches or stockpiles. At one MRI machine, they found one weapon in a bag that was stuffed behind the machine. On the other side of the machine there were bags and bags of legitimate medical supplies. Further down the hall, they showed an ammo belt that was on a shelf outside of a room that housed an MRI machine. It was all very amateur, not some well-organized weapons depot. It sure looked to me that a couple of Hamas terrorists were holed up there for a few days and they either hid some stashes of weapons, or left them behind.

[NOYB2]

When a nation loses territory as a result of a war, that's not "ethnic cleansing". Millions of Europeans were forced to move after WWII.

Palestianian Muslims have proven time and again that they cannot coexist peacefully next to Israel. Furthermore, no neighboring Muslim nation has been willing to incorporate Gaza. And Palestinian Muslims have ethnically cleansed every area that has come under their control.

Gaza was self-governing and independent for two decades and 10/7 was the result. It will now be under Israeli military occupation indefinitely, and the only eventual resolution that looks feasible at this point is for the territory to be ceded to Israel and the people who live there being expelled.

As for Israel's "targeting", it is not "indiscriminate". Israel is exceedingly careful in its military operations, but Gaza is full of street fighting terrorists and human shields. That's not Israel's fault.

[JFree]

Your definition of ethnic cleansing is weird as fuck. Here’s the definition – a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas War is precisely how ethnic cleansing happens not some fucking justification for it. You people have no ethics at all do you.

Furthermore, no neighboring Muslim nation has been willing to incorporate Gaza.

The solution for ethnic cleansing does not involve someone else taking responsibility for it happening.

Gaza was self-governing and independent for two decades and 10/7 was the result.

Gaza has been an open-air prison under blockade for that entire time. Not ‘self-governing’ or ‘independent’. No Gazan under the age of 20 has seen more than 12 consecutive hours of electricity in their entire life. And no that still doesn’t excuse 10/7. But I am sick of you assholes lying about everything under the sun.

As for Israel’s “targeting”, it is not “indiscriminate”. Israel is exceedingly careful in its military operations,

This is simply beyond stupid. It is deliberately deceitful. Bye bye.

[JesseAz]

Where are you getting your talking points? AOC?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Gaza has been an open-air prison under blockade for that entire time.

This is provably false and nothing more than NYT talking points. It's not an open air prison, not even close.

[JFree]

You sure as fuck don't know what is 'provably' anything because your sources are nothing but propaganda, inbred, conspiracies, and/or myths. Assuming you're not just too plain fucking lazy to understand anything other than a chant.

Gaza is 'Escape From NY'. The surveillance/carceral technology that Israel offers is the best-in-world BECAUSE Gaza is the best testing ground outside North Korea or China. The embarrassment - not the shock, the embarrassment - of 10/7 for Netanyahu was that all that high-tech no-labor surveillance/carceral technology failed. The inmates escaped and went on a rampage.

EVERY SINGLE source of information outside Israel and the US recognizes basic conditions and facts on the ground there. Including other allies of Israel and boosters of that tech. Within Israel and the US, the awareness of such facts is entirely political and partisan. Which means you won't believe an article like Three Myths about Gaza Dispelled because its written (before Oct 7) by a Jewish peace activist and a J-Street lobbyist appearing on a left-wing Jewish media site. You won't even look for the carceral tech stories because like all news stories, it focuses on the unpleasant side of what the tech does and you're too lazy to infer anything from the boosterism of those same techs.

[NOYB2]

Gaza is ‘Escape From NY’. … EVERY SINGLE source of information outside Israel and the US recognizes basic conditions and facts on the ground there.

The conditions in Gaza are awful… but that’s not Israel’s fault, anymore than the post-WWII conditions in Germany were America’s fault.

While Gaza is now home to 1.8 million Palestinians, it is not their natural home. Nearly two-thirds of the population are those, or descendants of those, who fled Israel in terror and whose homes were seized by Israeli forces in 1948 or 1967.

They “didn’t flee in terror”. They left Israel because they were unwilling to live in a non-Islamic state and believed that Israel would be wiped off the map by its Muslim neighbors. They miscalculated. Muslims who chose to remain in Israel and become Israeli citizens are doing just fine: about 20% of Israelis are Muslim, with equal rights under Israeli law.

We have a chance to help refigure the future, to end what appears to be endless war for a rational peace. This can only happen if we remember that peace must be secured with justice

The people in Gaza have rejected every peace offer or two state solution. They are virulently anti-Western and anti-Jewish and demand a Muslim state “from the river to the sea”. Every Muslim state in the region has ethnically cleansed itself of Jews and most Christians. Furthermore, the people of Gaza have no territorial claims or property rights in the territory of Israel. So, what “rational peace” do you propose?

As far as I can tell, the only “rational peace” is a half century military occupation of Gaza with an intensive program of reeducation and de-Islamization, analogous to the half century military occupation and de-Nazification of Germany.

But you’re welcome to make alternative proposals.

[JFree]

They “didn’t flee in terror”.

Yes they mostly did. And mostly because they were oblivious about self-governance so they had to be forced at gunpoint to leave.

You're spouting the founding myth stuff so let me disabuse you of one thing instead of refuting the nonsense point by point. Ever since 1895 - by Herzl BEFORE he created Zionism - there has been a very clear realization - if the 'Jewish state' is to be democratic, then the Arabs must be expelled from it. With a corollary, this is NOT an idea that helps the cause if voiced publicly.

This persists to this day. It is why you can advocate ethnic cleansing even now while pretending it never happened. Why a founding mythology with its memes - a land without a people for a people without a land, etc - is so necessary for public consumption. Why 'two-state solution' is chanted long beyond when it ceased to be possible and while at the same time NEVER getting serious about its borders or making it happen while every day its a-ok for homes in West Bank to be bulldozed for settlers. Which BTW is why the IDF was there and not around Gaza on 10/7.

So, what “rational peace” do you propose?

A one-state solution but not your apartheid, ethnic cleansing, gulag police state idea. Your idea is also Netanyahu's idea but it will render Israel an anathema to the West. Likely won't bring peace either.

[NOYB2]

if the ‘Jewish state’ is to be democratic, then the Arabs must be expelled from it.

Israel is 20% Arab-Muslims.

You know who has been expelled 100%? Jews from Muslim countries.

A one-state solution but not your apartheid, ethnic cleansing, gulag police state idea.

Israel is 20% Arab-Muslim, and they enjoy full rights. The obstacle to a one state solution is the people of Gaza, whose "one state solution" consists of ethnically cleansing all the Jews from the Middle East. That is why they are in the situation they are in.

Ethnically cleaning Jews from the Middle East is also apparently your solution: you really are joining Misek in being our resident Nazi, JFree.

[NOYB2]

By the way, "Palestine" originally consistent of Jordan, Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Jews in the area accepted any of the partitions proposed by the international community and has integrated large numbers of Muslims into Israeli society as full citizens. Jordan, on the other hand, has ethnically cleansed all Jews from the country. That is the ethnic cleansing that has happened in Palestine.

[NOYB2]

Here’s the definition – a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas. War is precisely how ethnic cleansing happens not some fucking justification for it.

Israel isn’t guilty of any of that. Israel offered Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan; they turned it down. Israel let the people of Gaza run their own government, and they used it for terror attacks. The people of Gaza had more than half a century to make the choice to live peaceably alongside Jews and the rejected it over and over again because nothing other than total Muslim domination of the entire Middle East is good enough for them, and they will use any means to accomplish that end, including terrorism.

Gaza has been an open-air prison under blockade for that entire time. Not ‘self-governing’ or ‘independent’.

No, Gaza was not an open air prison. But from now on, it will be under military occupation, just like the losers of WWII were under military occupation.

But I am sick of you assholes lying about everything under the sun.

I’m sick of assholes like you lying about the situation in Israel and supporting a group of people who are not just terrorists, but actually have engaged in ethnic cleansing, are violently opposed to liberal Western societies, and want to kill me.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I "support" neither set of homicidal religious nutjobs. I condemn them equally whenever they engage in their frequent episodes of religious homicide.

But you are a team player, so you have to pick a side. I understand.

[NOYB2]

Israel is a multi-ethnic, multi-religious society. The majority of Israelis are non-religious and 20% are Muslims.

You bet I pick the side of a Western, multi-ethnic, religiously tolerant society over antisemitic religious nutjobs who have ethnically cleansed every country they govern, who commit terrorist acts, and who want to throw gay atheists like myself off buildings.

But I understand: totalitarians and Jew haters like you need to pretend that this is “both sides” issue.

[Medulla Oblongata]

“Palestianian Muslims have proven time and again that they cannot coexist peacefully next to Israel.”

Palestinian Muslims have proven time and again that they cannot coexist peacefully in Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, or Lebanon…

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Article doesn’t even mention that it was Israel who built the tunnel and underground complex under that hospital 40 years ago before Hamas even existed.

I can't speak to the particular article you're quoting, but I know... and knew that the very REASON Israel suspected it was a command bunker is because Israel used it as a command bunker when they controlled Gaza. The fact that Israel built the tunnels doesn't mean that somehow relieves Hamas from potentially using them. The only relevant question is... was Hamas using it as a command bunker and b: did Hamas actually conduct the October 7 attack or was it a false flag operation by Netanyahu?

[JFree]

The fact that Israel built the tunnels doesn’t mean that somehow relieves Hamas from potentially using them.

No. But it certainly creates a lie that Israel is somehow looking for a tunnel/center and using the mere existence of it as something to both a)blame Hamas for and b)justify obliterating all other hospitals/schools/etc in Gaza. Even worse - when it is now REALLY obvious that it was not a command center at all. Basically an abandoned tunnel sealed off from whatever other tunnel systems exist in Gaza. Worse, the admission that Israel built it is not coming from the IDF's propaganda wing but from Ehud Barak and others. This stunt was Geraldo Rivera looking for Al Capone's hideaway.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Well, we have our second cease-fire in place. Hamas broke the first one on October 7, let's see who breaks the next one.

[NOYB2]

Israel isn't using the mere existence of the tunnels to blame Hamas. They blame Hamas for using the tunnels as their command center and for using civilians as human shields.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Surely, you're not suggesting Hamas has never boasted about its tunnel system under Gaza?

[JFree]

No I'm not. And don't call me Shirley.

[Commenter_XY]

Another Misek disciple.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

If they wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza, they'd be done already.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Yer, anything short of that means: no harm, no foul.

[Minadin]

"some loud voices on Twitter are chalking it all up to misogyny, as if everything has a culture war component at all times."

How could it possibly be a culture war component if it's not the right ginning it up?

(Presumably, the people screaming 'misogyny!' are not on the right-wing side of the culture war)

[mad.casual]

How could it possibly be a culture war component if it’s not the right ginning it up?

If Mexicans aren’t a race, how are vagina-havers a culture to themselves?

Toxic Masculinity: Men like me represent *the* human race.
Feminism*: Women’s Rights are Human Rights. This is a cultural issue.

*Pretty much ever wave, including the “We didn’t get the right to vote until 100 yrs., and running, before we get included in the draft.” wave.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"Israel and Hamas just agreed to a four-day pause in fighting during which 50 Hamas hostages will be returned to Israel, and 150 Palestinian prisoners currently held by Israel will be returned to Gaza."

A 1 for 3 deal? I thought "those people" were better at trading, especially wholesale.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

One Israeli is worth 3 Palestinians?

[Fats of Fury]

Easy as Pi Pie recipe
crust
3.14159265359 cups flour
3.14159265359 tbsps butter
3.14159265359 tsps sugar
3.14159265359 pinch salt
filling
3.14159265359 cups apples
3.14159265359 tbsps sugar
3.14159265359 tsps bourbon
mix crust ingredients,roll out to 3 x 3.14159265359 inches
add filling
preheat oven to 314.159265359 degrees
bake for 1/3 X 3.14159265359 hours

[Don't look at me!]

Circular reasoning.

[Chumby]

Not sure why folks use a round dish when pi r square.

[TheReEncogitationer]

No no. Pie R Round, Cornbread R Square. That's Southern Geometry.
🙂
😉

[Jerry B.]

Sorry, but proper cornbread is cooked in a cast iron skillet, therefore round.

[Stuck in California]

>looks at his rectangular cast iron loaf pan <

Ummm….. I’m never going to be able to make proper cornbread, am I?

[R Mac]

I’m going to have to calculate this then circle back.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Just like our favorite Apple Pie Jen Psaki?
🙂
😉

[TheReEncogitationer]

You didn’t go out to 100 decimal points like the Japanese. And that's a tiny crust for that much filling. Are you sure didn’t use more bourbon before preparing and baking?
🙂
😉
And don’t forget Absinthe…”Because Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.”
🙂
😉

[Fats of Fury]

Indeed and I have learned nothing and forgotten nothing.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Come on. Let's just legislate the value of pi as 3, and make life easy.

[TheReEncogitationer]

The Holy Bible made that calculation in 1 Kings 7:23 and the Legislature of Indiana tried to legislate that in 1897. In Papa Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land, Tennessee did it in 1960.

I'll pass on any construction trucks with fishes on the side, especially if I'm in the market to make a "molten sea."
🙂
😉

[swillfredo pareto]

Tell me in the comments if you're making any good pies this year.

Key lime with a Biscoff cookie crust.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Tell me in the comments if you’re making any good pies this year.

Well not a pie, but I am making a two-layer chocolate cake. Also for a potluck at work, I made a piecaken – pumpkin pie inside a spice cake. Got good reviews. So I guess that counts.

Edit: Well scratch that - plans just changed, guess I am making a pie after all, but not sure which one. Not really thrilled about making another pumpkin pie. Maybe an apple pie then.

[Don't look at me!]

Mike would ask if the piecaken was genetically engineered.

[TheReEncogitationer]

And made with HO2 and served with GMO Turducken.
🙂
😉

[Commenter_XY]

post the recipe = piecaken

[DesigNate]

I’m intrigued by your piecaken. Do you happen to have a newsletter?

[mad.casual]

Now, Toner is out, and some loud voices on Twitter are chalking it all up to misogyny, as if everything has a culture war component at all times.

Just like culture warriors to conflate my misAustralianism with those filthy misogynists.

[Minadin]

"Now, Toner is out,"

Every time I try to print . . .

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Take her out, give her a few shakes and put her back in. Might work for a little while more.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Careful though, that powder falls out, gets everywhere, and stains everything.

[Chumby]

The trick is to remove it, bang it on your heel once or twice. Voila.

[Chumby]

Racism against Arial Black

[Don't look at me!]

Spilling a lot of ink about toner.

[Roberta]

I intend to make a bread pudding with various fruits.

[Fats of Fury]

I intend to make a bread pudding with various fruits
Friends or relatives?

[TheReEncogitationer]

And Nuts and Flakes?
🙂
😉

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Tell me in the comments if you're making any good pies this year.

Pecan pie, but replacing the Karo Syrup (corn syrup) with Lyle's Golden Syrup (inverted sugar syrup).

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Sam Altman reinstated: Early this morning, news broke that Sam Altman had been reinstated as OpenAI's CEO, ending five days of tech world drama.

So they managed to unplug ChatGPT from the Human Resources department network. That was probably a smart move.

[mad.casual]

I agree. I'm no Kwisatz Haderach, but it looks like they probably staved off Earth Omnius long enough for humans to put their brains in jars, preserving the Butlerian Jihad timeline as we know it.

[R Mac]

That’s a spicy comment.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The board should destroy the company? Cut ahead to this past week, when Toner—a 31-year-old former Model U.N. kid from Australia, who has been widely criticized as underqualified for a board position—allegedly said that the board's duty is to humanity, so destroying the company would be consistent with that. Now, Toner is out, and some loud voices on Twitter are chalking it all up to misogyny, as if everything has a culture war component at all times.

Is Liz Wolf the gateway drug for Reason to realize that the people who run Silicon Valley, and often find themselves in positions of dizzying power aren't libertarian cowboys, just trying to maximize profit and shareholded value, but are often "not in it for the money" and merely want to fortify humanity into a "better society" which makes them uniquely dangerous?

Oh, and this last part.

Now, Toner is out, and some loud voices on Twitter are chalking it all up to misogyny, as if everything has a culture war component at all times.

I dunno, why DO Republicans keep ginning up culture war? Send Boehm a Teams message, Liz, he might have some answers for you.

[R Mac]

Is it just me, or since Liz took over the Roundup, has not just that gotten better, but the articles overall seem more aligned with libertarianism? Sullum’s TDS aside of course.

[DesigNate]

I feel it’s a mixed bag. If Trump isn’t convicted by next year and wins the Republican nomination, all bets will be off.

[Stuck in California]

Heh, buy ponchos and sell them at a profit. Because if Trump gets to that point, heads are going to explode like watermelons at a Gallagher show.

Actually, that might be one more reason to vote Trump. Just for the lulz.

[Stuck in California]

Possibly, it's because ENB shit out a kid and is on baby leave, hopefully bonding with the new baby and all that good stuff.

She was always good for a handful of libertine sex and abortion articles in addition to the links. Maybe removing her progressive takes has changed the ratio, so the more classically liberal and libertarian ones are now a greater portion.

Or I might be wrong. They DO read the comments section, or at least some of them do. ENB assumed everyone here was just hateful and horrible (which might be true) and probably avoided it like the plague. The new bent, with some links actually of interest to the commenters, has to be resonating back up the chain. Even the crankiest of us appreciate the focus on liberty as well as the rhetorical eyerolls when reporting some of the ridiculous shit other media cover straight.

This forum is a rife with bickering bastards, but enough people have appreciated Wolfe here to make it clear that their readership really does want more actual libertarian content.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

All statements from Hamas and Israel relating to the deal can be found here, via Al Jazeera.

Huh, I usually find most statements from Hamas coming out of the mouth of a New York Times reporter.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Eric Adams: secret libertarian?

If by "secret libertarian" you mean "knocked in the forehead by the 2x4 of reality when thousands of Migrants showed up on his doorstep saying, "Please give us our free housing now", yes, very secret libertarian.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Happy Thanksgiving! I am grateful for each and every one of you, dear Roundup readers.

You're the only one, Liz, trust me.

On the flipside, we kind of see you as the... forgive me... the "Trump" of Reason. A beltway outsider who's starting to shake things up and drain the swamp.

Now, if we can just get you out of Hipster Brooklyn...

[Fist of Etiquette]

Don't be a fool. She's only buttering you up for the webathon.

[R Mac]

Lol.

[Chumby]

Lunch with Liz including sammiches made by the other Liz.

[Commenter_XY]

@Liz Wolfe....Try this apple pie.

https://toriavey.com/apple-pudding-a-recipe-from-the-mother-of-thanksgiving/

You will not have any left over. Has illustrative pictures of the prep.

[Mother's Lament]

I would definitely eat Liz’s pie, and no, that’s not an innuendo.

Milk and honey apple pie with a pecan crust sounds really good.

Edit: But your apple pudding looks really good too.

[mad.casual]

Milk and honey apple pie with a pecan crust sounds really good.

Well, crap. I read it as two pies. Apple with a homemade crust and some sort of goat's milk, honey, pecan-crusted concoction that I would also eat, innuendo or not.

[R Mac]

I’m saying yes to both.

[Chumby]

Which two?

[R Mac]

The innuendo one and whatever she bakes in the oven.

[Stuck in California]

This thread isn't creepy at all.

[Chumby]

She’ll stop reading the comments after a few more days of the commentariat being the commentariat.

[Sevo]

"...the culmination of petty drama and tensions between those who want artificial intelligence development to slow down, believing the future of humanity is imperiled by this technology,..."

Imagine the hubris necessary to assume you, working in one company, can influence the development of a field of technology.
Those people ought to be summarily fired.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

You misspelled "executed".

[Dillinger]

>>Eric Adams: secret libertarian?

liberty very important when faced with a prison cell.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Douglas Murray is currently in Gaza and Israel, interviews man whose wife and son were murdered in front of his eyes by Hamas Decolonizers.

Trigger warning: Difficult to watch.

[Dillinger]

>>Happy Thanksgiving! I am grateful for each and every one of you, dear Roundup readers.

likewise. also thankful in general for this free place to express myself.

>>Tell me in the comments if you’re making any good pies this year.

taking on my mom’s pecan praline pie for the first time in about an hour … some New Orleans recipe she’s been killing people with for 50 years it’s tasty

[Fist of Etiquette]

Happy Thanksgiving! I am grateful for each and every one of you, dear Roundup readers.

[tears up]

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

You've been tearing up the comments for long enough, thank you.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Tearing them up like they're a state of the union address.

[Dillinger]

>>Real Men Don't Murder

but all my clothes say Just Do It.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Teenagers are among the most garbage people on earth, and easily conned by even worse adult garbage people

They're on Iowahawk's lawn again.

[Dillinger]

Viacom started it c.1989

[Fist of Etiquette]

For a minute there, it looked like the shut-ins would win.

"Condolences. The shut-ins lost. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a leaf for your dining room table, sir. The shut-ins will always lose."

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

If you don't need the leaf, plus a card table, you're not trying. Bonus points for a ping-pong table.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Getting a sense in real time how people want to price various near-term outcomes is useful in understanding an unfolding story."

You're getting gouged on the narrative.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

New rule: credit card required to vote, and billing depends on candidates and initiative choices.

[Fist of Etiquette]

In response to Mayor Eric Adams's budget cuts, libraries are cutting Sunday service...

What kind of libertarian would deny hobos a place to jerk off on the sabbath?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

The same kind that would chase them away from the little kid's playgrounds?

[Jerry B.]

Arm the little kids and that’s not a problem.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Biden administration has been providing Israel with the location of humanitarian groups in Gaza for weeks to prevent strikes against their facilities...

OMG. Is he getting 10% from Hamas???

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Probably only 5%. Those A-rabs sure know how to bargain.

[Jerry B.]

But Hunter gets a kilo of coke every week.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The unique structure of the company—a nonprofit oversees the for-profit subsidiary—made it so the fiduciary duty of the board was to "humanity, not OpenAI investors."

Skynet puts the end in dividend.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But if we are all exterminated by smart robots, think of the equity.

[Fist of Etiquette]

[tap tap]

Is this thing on?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Down here with the dregs of society.

[Dillinger]

I feel so honored to see fresh material.

[Don't look at me!]

Everyone packed up and went home.
Where you been, man?

[R Mac]

You’re late. Up drinking with sarc last night?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Just for you, sir (see above).

[mad.casual]

goat milk/honey with a pecan crust that takes the place of a traditional pecan

As in “A pecan pie with with a pecan crust using goat milk and honey” or “A sugar cream pie, using goat milk and honey, with a pecan crust"?

Because both sound good, but the latter is blowing my mind.

[Dillinger]

the fuck would anybody ever want to take the place of a traditional pecan?

[mad.casual]

Uh, check your pecan privilege you pie nationalist motherfucker. Not all of us here in flyover country grew up somewhere that pecans just fall off of trees. From where I sit, sugar cream is the native pie and you pecan asshats are the colonizers.

[Stuck in California]

Pecan Asshats is a good band name.

[Oafish]

Liz - a request. Please stop citing a bunch of articles behind paywalls. I can’t follow or verify most of what you’ve claimed on the AI story. To wit, what did she and her two Chinese-born co-authors actually say about China’s progress in the field?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"Tell me in the comments if you’re making any good pies this year."

Maybe, but no gay wedding pies.

[A Thinking Mind]

"Israel's continued bombardment of these humanitarian facilities raises more questions about whether Washington has the political sway many in the administration want with Israel."

Funny how we can't just dictate what other countries are allowed to do. It's almost like they're not even American.

[Chumby]

They are being funded by America. That part should stop today.

[Agammamon]

"Aid sites hit: "The Biden administration has been providing Israel with the location of humanitarian groups in Gaza for weeks to prevent strikes against their facilities," reports Politico. But this has not dissuaded the Israeli military from hitting those areas. "Israel's continued bombardment of these humanitarian facilities raises more questions about whether Washington has the political sway many in the administration want with Israel."

Aid workers have said that the Israeli military's commitment to protecting humanitarian groups from strikes has been stronger in the past, but that they are showing less concern for those sites now. "We don't see eye-to-eye on what they consider collateral damage or military necessity and what we consider a very high civilian toll, whether it's in life or in infrastructure, including ours," a United Nations official told Politico."

Here's the deal.

1. There's no evidence (or absence of evidence) that the US information is *accurate*.

2. There's no reason for Israel to trust it either given the recent very public support for Hamas' atrocities.

3. There's plenty of evidence that Hamas likes to interpenetrate 'civilian' 'non-combatant' areas with combatants.

4. And its perfectly understandable that the Israelis aren't all that concerned about protecting Palestinians from the consequences of their own actions. Palestinians have shown and repeatedly confirmed that they're about genocide of Jews and any method is acceptable.

5. Remember, Hamas is not a nation-state with a traditional military and a traditional split between military and not-military. The Hamas 'militant wing' is only loosely controlled by Hamas and there's an expanding series of rings of paramilities, militias, and 'independent actors' that ripple through the population.

[Agammamon]

""We don't see eye-to-eye on what they consider collateral damage or military necessity and what we consider a very high civilian toll, whether it's in life or in infrastructure, including ours," a United Nations official told Politico."

I wonder if they talk to Russia about 'acceptable collateral damage'. I wonder why China isn't 'talked to' about Uyghurs.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

"Talking about it" is something a country does with its allies (or at least those countries receiving ~$3bn in military assistance each year); what would be the point of having such discussions with its enemies?

[Agammamon]

"Tell me in the comments"

Nobody reads the comments.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Liz does. She even made mention of it on Twitter today.

[Stuck in California]

Good for her.

To be fair, if I was Fiona or Sullum, I'd never read the comments, either.

Liz is taking the feedback though, occasionally hyperbolic and vitriolic as it can sometimes be on this comment board. Feels like she's on the right track and really trying to make the roundup the best it can be.

[hazle]

“Talking about it” is something a country does with its allies (or at least those countries receiving ~$3bn in military assistance each year); what would be the point of having such discussions with its enemies?
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