California's 10-Round Magazine Limit Is Unconstitutional, a Federal Judge Rules (Again)
"There is no American tradition of limiting ammunition capacity," U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez says, calling the state's cap "arbitrary," "capricious," and "extreme."

Last year in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned that state's restrictions on public possession of handguns for self-defense. A week later, the Court vacated four appeals court decisions upholding state gun control laws and remanded the cases for further consideration in light of Bruen. One of those cases, Duncan v. Bonta, involved California's ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, which a federal judge deemed unconstitutional in a decision published on Friday.
"There is no American history or tradition of regulating firearms based on the number of rounds they can shoot, or of regulating the amount of ammunition that can be kept and carried," writes Roger Benitez, a judge on the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of California. "Because the State did not succeed in justifying its sweeping ban and dispossession mandate with a relevantly similar historical analogue, [California's magazine limit] is hereby declared to be unconstitutional in its entirety and shall be enjoined." Benitez stayed his injunction for 10 days, allowing California time to challenge his decision.
This was not the first time that Benitez had concluded that California's restriction on magazine capacity was inconsistent with the Second Amendment. In 2017, at an earlier stage of the case, then known as Duncan v. Becerra, Benitez issued a preliminary injunction against Proposition 63, a 2016 ballot initiative that prohibited possession of what California calls "large capacity magazines" (LCMs). That initiative expanded a 2000 law that already prohibited manufacture, importation, and distribution of LCMs, which previously had allowed continued possession of magazines acquired prior to the ban.
Two years later, Benitez made that injunction permanent and expanded it to cover the earlier restrictions on LCMs. "California's law prohibiting acquisition and possession of magazines able to hold any more than 10 rounds places a severe restriction on the core right of self-defense of the home such that it amounts to a destruction of the right and is unconstitutional under any level of scrutiny," he wrote. That decision initially was upheld by a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, but it was reversed in a 2021 en banc decision, which is the ruling that the Supreme Court vacated last year. The 9th Circuit responded by sending the case back to Benitez.
This time around, the plaintiffs had an even stronger case. Under Bruen, laws that regulate conduct covered by the "plain text" of the Second Amendment must be consistent with "this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation." California struggled to meet that test.
The state, which requested and received extra time to study the historical record, "produced a list of 316 laws covering 550 years—from 1383 to 1933." Many of those laws were "not relevant" in assessing the original public understanding of the right to keep and bear arms, Benitez says, because they were enacted either before 1791, when the Second Amendment was ratified, or long after 1868, when the 14th Amendment required states to respect that right. And nearly all of the rest concerned matters far afield from a restriction on magazine capacity, such as the manner in which guns could be carried or used.
When "asked to identify the best historic analogue to its sweeping prohibition on large
capacity magazines," Benitez says, California cited a 1784 New York City law that imposed a 28-pound limit on the amount of gunpowder that could be stored in a building. But that law had "nothing to do with gun violence," Benitez notes. Rather, it was "a fire safety regulation." The same was true of a 19th century law cited by California that prohibited Bostonians from leaving loaded, unattended firearms in buildings.
By 1868, California also noted, a dozen or so states had laws the prohibited the carrying of concealed pistols. "The concealed carry laws did not prohibit either keeping pistols for all lawful purposes or carrying all guns openly," Benitez notes. "And none included long guns or ammunition containers in their restrictions. Pocket pistols were entirely lawful to keep and use at home for self-defense. Prohibiting the concealed carrying of a pistol was constitutionally permissible only when a citizen could freely keep and carry the same gun openly."
By contrast, "today's large capacity magazine ban prohibits carrying magazines in any manner—and even more restrictively prohibits simple possession." Other laws that California presented as analogous to its LCM ban included restrictions on bladed weapons, which obviously are not examples of "firearm regulation," and bans on "trap guns," which applied not to a particular kind of firearm but to the practice of setting them to go off as a precaution against intruders.
One might object that detachable magazines are a relatively recent technological development, so it is not reasonable to demand close historical analogs from the 18th or 19th century. But Benitez notes that "the lever-action repeating Henry and Winchester rifles popular at the time of the Fourteenth Amendment were already dramatic technological advancements in firearms." Those "popular lever-action rifles had large tubular magazines that held a lot of ammunition and could be fired multiple times in succession, accurately and quickly," he says. Yet "there are no state prohibitions on possession or manufacture of these lever-action rifles in the State's law list."
Although "detachable magazines were invented in the late 19th Century," Benitez says, the first restriction on them was not enacted until 1990, when New Jersey imposed a 15-round limit, later reduced to 10 rounds. Even today, such limits are unusual. "Our federal government and most states impose no limit," Benitez notes, "and in the states where limits are imposed, there is no consensus" about the appropriate cutoff. Rules range from New York's defunct seven-round limit, which was ruled unconstitutional, to Delaware's 17-round cap.
In short, Benitez says, "there is no American tradition of limiting ammunition capacity," and "the 10-round limit has no historical pedigree." He calls it "arbitrary," "capricious," and "extreme."
Given the difficulty of showing that California's 10-round limit is "consistent with this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation," the state falls back on a policy argument that purports to weigh the benefits of LCMs in self-defense against the danger they pose in the hands of mass murderers. "In the past half-century," California Attorney General Rob Bonta said in explaining his plan to appeal Benitez's ruling, "large-capacity magazines have been used in about three-quarters of gun massacres with 10 or more deaths and in 100 percent of gun massacres with 20 or more deaths. We will continue to fight for our authority to keep Californians safe from weapon enhancements designed to cause mass casualties."
One problem for Bonta is that Bruen expressly rules out such an "interest-balancing" approach. Another problem: California implicitly concedes that LCMs can be useful for self-defense. Its ban exempts current and former law enforcement officers, a provision that would be puzzling if magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds had no legitimate use. Furthermore, California's argument that the need to switch magazines can have life-or-death consequences in the context of a mass shooting means the same is true in self-defense situations.
California emphasizes that a 10-round limit can create a "critical pause" during which a mass shooter's targets might either escape or disarm him. But "from the perspective of a victim trying to defend her home and family," Benitez noted in 2019, "the time required to re-load a pistol after the tenth shot might be called a 'lethal pause,' as it typically takes a victim much longer to re-load (if they can do it at all) than a perpetrator planning an attack. In other words, the re-loading 'pause' the State seeks in hopes of stopping a mass shooter also tends to create an even more dangerous time for every victim who must try to defend herself with a small-capacity magazine."
Benitez reiterates that point in last Friday's decision. "There have been, and there will be, times where many more than 10 rounds are needed to stop attackers," he writes, describing several real-life cases to illustrate that scenario. "Under this statute, the State says 'too bad.'"
California argues that such situations are rare. It presented testimony by a statistician who opined that, when guns are fired in self-defense, the average number of rounds used is 2.2. Benitez pokes holes in that estimate, which is based on opaque analyses of self-defense incidents identified by the National Rifle Association or covered by the press. Benitez questions the cutoff dates used in those analyses, notes that crucial information was often missing from the accounts, and suggests that the statistician's method for filling those gaps biased the estimate downward. But even if the estimate is accepted at face value, he says, survey data on defensive gun uses suggest that incidents where more than 10 rounds are needed "happen between 1,500 and 9,000 times" every year.
Survey data also cast doubt on California's contention that magazines with capacities exceeding 10 rounds are not covered by the Second Amendment. "Magazines that hold more than 10 rounds are possibly the most commonly owned thing in America," Benitez writes. "These larger magazines number over one hundred million." A 2021 survey of gun owners found that nearly half had owned magazines that exceeded California's limit and on average had owned about half a dozen of them, suggesting that the current total is in the hundreds of millions. "For handguns, the most popular sizes range up to 17 rounds," Benitez notes. "The most popular size for rifles is 30 rounds."
In other words, the magazines that California has deemed intolerable are clearly "in common use" for "lawful purposes," fitting the Supreme Court's definition of the "arms" that Americans are presumptively entitled to own. California nevertheless has determined that such magazines "are not necessary or even suitable to engage in private self-defense." Under the Second Amendment as interpreted by the Supreme Court, Benitez concludes, that is not the state's call.
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Not much to add.
I wonder what trick the 9th Circuit will pull this time?
They'll enshrine "FYTW" as canon law.
They haven't already?
Perhaps they will delay the appeals process in hopes that one of the constitutionalists on the Supreme Court dies and Biden can replace them with an adherent of the "living Constitution" doctrine - i.e., whatever those in black robes decide should be in the Constitution rather than what is in the Constitution.
"in hopes that one of the constitutionalists on the Supreme Court dies"
The court is currently 6-3, so it would take two to create a liberal majority.
'They didn't have automatic weapons when they wrote the 2nd amendment' is a favorite red herrring, and I gave it some thought.
They didn't have the ball-point pen when they wrote the first, either.
eh?
Depends on whether you want to consider the "Puckle gun" to be an "automatic weapon", which was patented in England in 1718. At the very least, it has a "magazine capacity" of 11 rounds.
https://www.historyandheadlines.com/may-15-1718-first-machine-gun-patented-james-puckle/
*Nelson Voice* HA -HA!
Meanwhile,
Fidel Jr. and the midget comic give an actual Waffen SS Nazi a standing ovation.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/zelenskyy-trudeau-honor-actual-3rd-reich-nazi-standing-ovation
This what his unit was up to in 1944.
Early in the morning of February 28, 1944, a mixed force of Ukrainian SS and German soldiers surrounded Huta Pieniacka. There were some 600–800 soldiers and it has been established that Kazimierz Wojciechowski (who was burnt alive that day), commandant of Polish forces in the village, had been informed of the approaching enemy around two hours before the attack. The Poles however, had too little time to prepare a defense or to escape.[7]
The village was shelled by artillery. Some time around noon a mixed force of Ukrainian SS and German soldiers and a strong contingent from the 14th SS Galicia[dubious – discuss] surrounded Huta Pieniacka and herded the villagers into their barns.[9] The attackers set fire to the village and it burned all day. According to Bogusława Marcinkowska, a historian from Kraków's office of the Institute of National Remembrance, the Ukrainians threw infants against walls and cut open the stomachs of pregnant women.[7] The murderers left at night. Many of them were drunk and singing songs.[7] Only four houses remained, and on the next day a mass funeral took place. Those who survived escaped to Zloczow and other towns, never to return.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta_Pieniacka_massacre#:~:text=The%20Huta%20Pieniacka%20massacre%20was,range%20from%20500%20to%201%2C200.
You forgot to add:
"Speaker of the House Anthony Rota apologized Sunday for honouring a man who fought in a Nazi unit during the Second World War.
Rota was responding to condemnation from Jewish groups and others stemming from a moment during Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's visit to Parliament on Friday. During the visit, Rota said the man was "a Ukrainian hero, a Canadian hero, and we thank him for all his service."
Those gathered in the House responded with applause and a standing ovation.
"I have subsequently become aware of more information which causes me to regret my decision to [honour Hunka]. I wish to make clear that no one, including fellow parliamentarians and the Ukraine delegation, was aware of my intention or of my remarks before I delivered them," Rota said.
"I particularly want to extend my deepest apologies to Jewish communities in Canada and around the world," he added.
Rota said he accepted "full responsibility" for his actions."
And that absolves them how? Would you extend the same courtesy to a conservative who did something similar? I highly doubt it.
Who is "them"?
Rota said he alone chose to honor Hunka, not Zelenskyy.
“Sorry we love Nazis” isn’t the win you think it is.
As much as I defend Ukrainian's right to fight and resist Putin's invasion and atrocities, this is some fucked-up shit from both Zelenskyy and Trudeau.
Ukrainians need to fight a two-front war, one against Putin and the Putineers, and one against all of their nation's home-grown, corrupt low-lifes. They need to use a political enema and flush out those who besmirsh their cause, so they can have a Ukraine worth fighting for and defending.
Neither of whom had anything to do with it...but go on.
You can't blame the guy for the error. There was a lot of nuance to the factions in Europe during the 1940s. Nobody could have possibly suspected that anyone fighting in opposition to the Soviets, who at the time were nominally an ally to Canada (to the extent that Canada was its own nation prior to 1982 when the Queen Elizabeth gave them their independence) would have been aligned with Germany, much less a uniformed member of the Waffen SS.
No reasonable person would have thought to vet the guy before singling him out by name for such enthusiastic recognition.
Yaroslav is a Hunka Hunka burning shit!...At least he needs to be, with both the Azov Battalion and the Wagner Group serving as his fire tinder!
As of this moment, Ukraine needs to do a nut-cutting of it's ranks (just as the U.S. needs to nut-cut it's 2 percent of the Armed Forces who have gang affiliations, including Klan, Neo-Nazi, and other Racist gangs of all backgrounds.)
And after all of this is over and Putin does his Makarov tonsilectomy and lizard brain lobotomy, Ukraine needs to train decent citizen-soldiers and let them keep their arms, so that it never again depends on low-lifes for it's defense.
In other words, the re-loading ‘pause’ the State seeks in hopes of stopping a mass shooter also tends to create…
The state seeks no such thing. They could care less about preventing “mass shootings”.
They can’t just say “welcome to Workers Paradise, no guns allowed” as is the end goal. They have to chip away at our constitutional rights slowly, knowing the dumbfuck voter won’t notice the ratchet tightening each year. They start with magazine limits, then will go to allowing no magazines, then only single shots… then no guns allowed. Unless of course you’re cops or connected peoples’ private security.
Oh well, the single political party that runs California just hit a major setback in their assault on the 2A.
Let’s hope the courts find the CA “approved gun list” unconstitutional next, as should’ve happened years ago:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/search
Their policy may be bad but they do genuinely care about mass shootings. There is no reason to attribute malice when misguided good intentions explains one’s opponents actions.
Mike,
I have a bridge that I'd like to sell you.
I doubt you have a bridge.
Look, random mass shootings are a real problem. And a problem that may be unsolvable. Fertile ground for well-intentioned bad ideas.
I'm not sure how taking away everyone's defensive measure against mass shooters can be interpreted into a "well-intention-ed bad idea".
It's a bad idea because it's wildly unrealistic. But there is no denying that at least some of the people with those wildly unrealistic ideas are well-intentioned.
Many stupid people are. Like the democrats who aren’t sociopaths.
More people die a year from stabbings than from mass shootings.
Except they’re not a real problem, statistically speaking.
They may be a real perceived problem, but that’s not the same thing, and as TJJ said, stripping law abiding citizens of their rights solves nothing.
You know this. We know this. Fuck, Tony knows this. That’s why it can be said definitively that they have bad intentions.
If you don’t see this as the pure squawking it is, I don’t know what to tell you.
He approached you with the intention of selling a bridge and you doubt him?!?!? Don't assume!!! Come on follow your own advice....
"I have a bridge that I’d like to sell you."
Make it a cash only dealing with that lying pile of shit.
Good natured authoritarianism. They mean well as they take your rights away.
Surprised you didn’t claim you weren’t defending them.
Tell us about those traitors on J6 again.
LOL @“Good intentions “.
Pretend good intentions. Serious good intentions would eliminate gun free zones, where mass shootings invariably occur.
And you think that would stop mass shootings...
They may care, but their caring is counterproductive. It’s wishful thinking, going through the motions, caring, solely for public consumption.
Turns out, historically, the best thing that can be done to prevent large numbers of casualties in what would otherwise be a mass shooting event, is to have armed concealed carry people in the near vicinity to quickly engage the shooters. That’s one big reason that they most typically occurs in “gun free” zones, where only the shooters are armed.
So,k which side wants decarceration?
Which side wants to defund the police?
Which side accuses the police of habitually hunting down and gunning down unarmed Black men?
which side accuses the criminal justice system of being systemically racist?
Mike: They don't care about mass shootings. Other than being a statistic they can use as a weapon. The've re-defined them and buried them and done every other thing that can only lead a reasonable, intelligent person, to one conclusion:
When it fits their goals, they will assail our rights with one example, and when it doesn't advance the narrative, they will sweep it under the rug.
It doesn't matter what the actual problem or the actual solutions might be. They have a GOAL.
Sorry, I cannot see how this demonization of your opponents is anything but act of faith and partisanship.
It’s probably because you aren’t very bright.
The lefts GOAL is to destroy the USA (defined by the US Constitution) as if that wasn't completely obvious. And any patriot of the USA is entirely correct/right to demonize such a treasonous act.
The problem is Democrats think they live in a Nazi-Democracy. They don't think anything is Anti-USA so long as they can build up a [WE] gang bigger than that other (they perceive by self-reflection) as a gang and until they can get over their "democracy" they'll never understand how treasonous they really are.
You sound unhinged.
Of course, you always sound unhinged...
That's not my fault; that you can't see it. Sorry.
You have apparently left the libertarian farm a long, long time ago. It's a shame, but, as a libertarian myself, it's not my problem.
Not demonizing Democrats and being willing to recognize when they mean well is simple civility, and in now way conflicts with libertarianism.
The only “mean well” (asset) to humanity ‘guns’ (gov-guns) can provide is to ensure everyone keeps some Liberty and Justice.
Poking, pointing and prodding gov-guns at everyone to get them to pay for and support —> their <— dreamed up utopia is just totalitarian arrogance with a 'gun' in their need for self-importance they don't want to actually EARN so they use 'guns' instead.
Trying to reap all the benefits/credit of earning something without having to earn it but instead demanding it.
“Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Moderate away buddy.
Demonizing is a natural reaction to demonic people, which the LieCheatSteal party is almost completely completely populated with.
The party of lies, doing the bidding of the father of lies.
And now you’re trying to deflect. Classic Mike.
Fuck your good intentions.
We either govern, and coexist, based on actual Constitutional fundamentals, and the written laws that comply, or we go at each other based on personal feelings of the moment.
Good intentions: (verb) banning a box with a spring in it, that is easily manufactured; the ease of manufacturing said box renders the ban useless.
Even easier today with 3D printers.
Please share widely.
+1000000000000000000000000 ^^^ THIS ^^^
The ones who are wet to the knees over these shootings are your gun grabbing democrat masters. ‘“Never let a good crisis go to waste” when you can leverage it to strip away the Bill of Rights, right?
Again, "Do something!" Is not an argument, and good intentions do not bring the dead back to life, any more than "thoughts and prayers."
Please do not use the horrific atrocities of mass murderers to apple-polish the blood-libel and enslavement of 119 million+ peaceful U.S. gun owners, like this asshole did recently:
God, Guns, Mass Shootings,and Evangelicals
by Ed Gaskin
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/god-guns-mass-shootings-and-evangelicals/
Agreed that “do something” is bad policy.
That is orthogonal to the basic principle of human civility of not attributing to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity.
When you you call gun grabbers stupid, is that malice?
Their policy may be bad but they do genuinely care about mass shootings.. Cite?
I can't say I have statistically sampled all of them, but the few leftists I do know are sincere about their support for gun control: they think it will reduce senseless violence. They're seriously misguided and seemingly unable to process almost any actual facts about firearms. They also do not care about Constitutional rights they don't use or value (much like most people).
But blindly raging at them probably won't change their minds. On the other foot, freaking out about hoplophobia on this particular forum won't have any effect on their views, either, so carry on...
They care about mass shootings so much, they want people to think that incidents like what happened at the Highway 91 Festival in Vegas happen hourly, and shootings at schools are as common and predictable as homecoming or senior prom.
They also care about "equity" so much that for a long time Gavin Newsom was insisting that the Covid "lockdowns" would continue until "inequity" in the infection/hospitalization/death rates cleared up. It wasn't his fault that so much of that inequity was likely the result of the lockdowns, during which the wealthier and more affluent "white collar" workers (among which whites/asians are statistically over-represented) were able to isolate themselves by paying the less affluent (many of whom took "gig" work delivering stuff to replace income from service jobs which got shut down by the State) to take on all of the risks associated with public interaction and that "black and brown" minorities were over-represented among this group as well as in health care staffing jobs which got them exposed constantly almost every day.
There's a reason that there's so much overlap with these kinds of "thinkers" and believers in "progressive" economic theory in which inflationary policies are the best (if not only) possible tools to fight growing inequality, which is akin to thinking that inducing higher levels of gravity would be a great way to reduce avalanche activity in the mountains. They apparently believe that causality is something that can be declared as opposed to being diagnosed.
We would prevent police accidentally shooting dogs by limited cops to muzzle loaded weapons only.
What this is about is outlawing a large number of guns without actually admitting it.
On Topic.
https://jonathanturley.org/2023/09/23/gov-newsom-attacks-federal-judge-as-child-killing-extremist-right-wing-zealot-owned-by-the-nra/
This week, California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) went on Twitter/X to denounce U.S. Judge Roger T. Benitez as “an extremist, right-wing zealot with no regard to [sic] human life.”
As Turley notes, Newsom is sounding increasingly like Trump.
“For handguns, the most popular sizes range up to 17 rounds,” Benitez notes. “The most popular size for rifles is 30 rounds.”
Translation: Glock 17 and AR 15. Every American should own at least one.
Illegal in the state of Washington.
Are you a Washingtonian or an American?
Seriously though, which is illegal? And if you broke that law, how would anyone find out? Popping off too many rounds in a row at the range? If you haven't dumped a 33 round Glock mag, you got to find a friend with one. They look dorky as hell, but it's a lot of fun.
I already own mine, I'm grandfathered in. Everyone else? Too bad, so sad. To answer your question about how anyone finds out? *shrug* ask your lawyer.
My father had what would be called a "small arsenal" of weapons of various types that he was going to pass on to me. It's just really unfortunate that he had them all with him when his fishing boat overturned in that storm. Fortunately he did at least save his fishing rod.
Seems your opportunity to be "grandfathered in" to legal ownership (at least for the time being) went down with that boat. I keep finding additional pieces of my late father's collection in various new locations--20 years after he passed away...
I’ve got mine as well. Although I would happily be these case that gets this Inslee bullshit struck down.
Did grandfathering require paperwork? How else do you prove it?
Why would you need to? Government’s burden is to prove every element of its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Purchasing the firearm after the deadline would presumably be one of those elements. Sure, if the gun was purchased in WA after the deadline, then a subpoena of the record (or bill of sale) might suffice. Legally purchased out of state is a very different proposition.
Yes, you purchase right before the law goes into effect. There’s a background check and the serial # is registered with the state.
I cannot order, nor purchase legally the parts required for the build.
I’ve always had to fill out and FFL for my purchases. So all my weapons are of record. I wouldn’t have to prove shit.
And if you broke that law, how would anyone find out?
Ask the Weaver family:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
Look, Randy was absolutely entrapped, but anybody with a room temperature IQ would have realized they were being entrapped.
Still, morons have rights, too.
We all own illegal things. With so many things illegal, it’s hard not to.
Three felonies a day and all that. Question is where to draw the line.
All of us? What do I own that's illegal?
You'd be surprised.
That, or, you're not very fun.
Good example.
"sarcasmic
November.19.2021 at 1:45 pm
I don't carry a gun. I'm not a great shot and I lack training. Doing so would be inviting trouble that I don't know how to handle."
Thank you for pointing out how I'm more responsible than those you never criticize for open calls to violence.
You don’t think ML’s ever criticized Kirkland? Guess I don’t know that he has, but that’s a weird criticism.
When you have what sarc has for 'brains', that's as good as it gets.
The ten gallon drum of hobo wine you made with antifreeze?
Is that like bilge wine?
Plenty of other handguns have 17 round magazines. I would probably put the cutoff at 15. While I have 17 round mags with my G17, I have 15 with both my G19 and G20. Plus several others. Note also that 17 round G17 mags work just fine in smaller Glock 9 mms, like the G19. I have more of the larger mags because I can share them between guns.
Outside anti-2nd Amdt states, it is frankly hard finding reduced capacity 10 round mags for either Glocks or AR-15s. At a normal store selling magazines, you may find several hundred 20 and esp 30 round AR-15 mags, but only a handful of 10 round mags. Definitely more 30 round Glock mags than 10 rounders.
Which brings up one of the judge’s points - standard capacity magazines (15 or 17 for most mag Fed handguns and 30 round for AR-15s) are far, far, more numerous than the guns themselves. Probably easily 10x. Which translates to easily over a billion “high” capacity” magazines in private hands in this country. That easily qualifies as being in “common use”.
You know a lot about guns. Neat.
Interested in the facts, and not wishful thinking, behind the law.
Does this include Rittenhouse? Cause I remember, and can link, how much you said "it sucked" he could defend himself.
One of these days you'll respond to something I actually said.
Your post said everyone. Is Rittenhouse not a part of that set?
It isnt our fault your a raging hypocrite with inconsistencies based on the lefts narrative of the day.
You really that much of a literalist, pedantic, obtuse clod, or are you being mendacious as usual?
Drunk sarc’s got himself ahold of a thesaurus.
Is Rittenhouse part of everyone. Yes or no?
Mendacious it is.
Stupid drunk cunt.
Now let's see them enforce it, again.
The purpose of the Second Amendment is not to protect six-shot revolvers for home defense and shotguns for duck hunting. The purpose of the Second Amendment, written in the immediate aftermath of a bloody revolutionary war against the greatest military power on the planet, is to ensure that the common people will never be prevented from owning arms of military usefulness, should they ever have need of them, against foreign invaders or internal despots. Limiting magazine capacity is exactly the sort of infringement of this right that was explicitly and literally banned in the text of the Amendment.
Right. If a gang of thugs all decide to bust in your door like something out of a Charles Bronson movie, you’re allowed to own as much firepower as necessary to put them all down single-handedly, if necessary.
Part of the idea was also that many Indian tribes at the time were not on friendly terms, and might raid a random homestead with minimal warning. While some tribes were on cordial relationships, others were in a de facto state of war. If you needed to put down a dozen raiding warriors, you were expected to be sufficiently armed for it.
And that's why all this "common use" and "historical regulation" stuff is bullshit. Civilians need to be able to adopt new arms to keep up with militaries and well supplied criminals. The entire point is to make sure civilians are able to have "weapons of war".
"The same was true of a 19th century law cited by California that prohibited Bostonians from leaving loaded, unattended firearms in buildings."
My state, like some others, has a law requiring unattended firearms to be secured. I am not aware of any post-Bruen challenges to the law.
I remember a case, but not the outcome, where a city argued that if any city, anywhere had paid for a study showing that strip clubs were bad then that one study was good enough for everybody to rely on. Digging through old ordinance books to find isolated laws from the 19th century reminds me of that case. Maybe it was about dirty movies and not strip clubs.
Requiring firearms to be secured is not a fire prevention, but rather gun control, pure and simple. If ammunition is going to ignite in a fire, it doesn’t make a bit of difference if the gun has a gun lock on it, or not. The powder ordinance, on the other hand, were to prevent the powder, stored in too large of a quantity, from igniting, and setting houses on fire. Apparently, a chunk of Manhattan was burned down as a result of such a fire.
What's Mrs. O'Leary's cow? Chopped liver?
Uh, yeah. Fried liver, as well as Mignon, London Broil, T-Bone, Sirloin, Rib-Eye, Tomahawk, Brisket...
🙂
😉
And it's still legally a big pain in the ass to ship or store black powder.
Let us not forget the words of Judge Wayne Andersen.
https://archive.md/mgil3
So basically, this pathetic excuse of a judge let ghetto kids die in order to preserve the civil rights of gang members. Have I got that right?
Criminal gang members belong in prison. Did you honestly think your proposition to cancel everyone's civil rights had to do with gang members?
If CA mentality is [WE] gang of criminals gets to use Gov-Guns to commit acts of crimes against individuals in the state why should anyone be surprised when that gangland mentality starts to spread far and wide without government? CA hasn’t used their government to ensure liberty and justice for anyone in years; why would they start now?
Not to protect gang members, but everyone else from them.
And what you are suggesting is the means/ends balancing, attempted by the State here, and so roundly rejected by Bruen, and thus, necessarily, by this Court. The balancing was done in 1791. It has no place in 2023. If you don’t like it, amend the Constitution.
"...Have I got that right?"
No.
But given that you're a brain-dead slimy pile of lefty shit, I'm not even going to try to explain it to you.
re: "Have I got that right?"
No, you don't. Do some research, then come back and start over.
Gavin Newsom is just tired of all the school shootings and gang violence in the ghetto.
Did you know that California's assault weapons ban was passed because a gang shootout in Stockholm killed a bunch of kids playing at a school playground?
There is a Stockholm in Calfornia?
Maybe a Stockholm Avenue.
Judging from their strict gun control, California is an entire State with Stockholm Syndrome.
Stockholm Syndrome--Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Yep, and when I get tired of things, I can presume legal authority to confiscate property, stifle speech, and lock people up, right?
The wonderful side effects of a leadership who preaches Gov-Guns being the cure for everything. Commie-CA-Utopia showing its reality!
Turns out “assault weapons” are almost entirely used defensively, and almost all gang shootings utilize handguns, simply because they are easily concealable. If CA gangs do utilize “assault weapons” offensively, they are likely actually fully automatic “assault rifles”, already effectively illegal, starting with the 1934 NFA, smuggled over the now wide open southern border, along with illegal alien, fentanyl, and other drugs. Our country supplies the Mexican military and police with automatic weapons, whose members sell their weapons to the cartels, that then ship them back to the very same gangs selling their drugs.
re: "Did you know that ..."
No, I didn't - and neither do you. That may have been the convenient excuse but it is not a plausible "because" since the CA ban had no chance of stopping the Stockholm shooting (or any equivalent incident).
The only exercise Republicans get is pouncing!
Misinformation research is buckling under GOP legal attacks
Well, good, since "misinformation research" is just a euphemism for "censorship research", and not the sort that tries to stop it, either.
And it's not like an originally legit field got perverted by politics. It started out as an excuse for censorship.
I wouldn't call concocting bullshit rationalizations for attacking the freedom of speech "research", either.
-jcr
WTF? Really?!? At what point does this become the tale of Republicans silencing the story of a martian invasion of the New Jersey countryside in 1938?
Democratic-Nazi's endlessly trying to cancel the USA for their Nazi-Empire.
It's not a Nazi empire, it's just a national socialist one.
Same, same... "Nazism, or National Socialism"
https://www.britannica.com/summary/Nazism
Does this ruling immediately affect capacity laws in other states?
Nope. And it doesn’t for CA either because if the ruling holds the legislature will just pass a similar bill that will have effect until someone sues. As far as I know, courts don’t just look at a law and say “What the actual fuck? What part of the Constitution said that was ok?” No, someone has to sue. Not only that but they have to meet some threshold. And if nobody bothers, the law stands.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. Because it's a terrible notion.
It's going to take a President with the determination to force the DOJ to start enforcing 18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law.
Trump wouldn't, of course, because he was a closet gun controller, as demonstrated by the bumpstock ban. He wasn't going to do anything to piss off the NRA, (They signed off on that ban, the skunks!) but he certainly wasn't going to do any heavy lifting to fight gun control.
I don't know, maybe DeSantis would be up for that fight.
Everyone in power is against the people. Every single one of them.
Humorously by making promises to be Constitutionally lawless criminals. Promising to use the nations 'guns' entirely and completely unjustly to STEAL from those icky people like a criminal and hand over some of the stolen money to their dependent voters.
Does anyone really believe the nations 'guns' can actually make stuff for them?
I don't think Trump is a closet gun grabber, I think he just doesn't care about guns, but he'll play along with whatever he believes is popular.
-jcr
No, someone has to sue. Not only that but they have to meet some threshold. And if nobody bothers, the law stands.
You are generally correct. And part of that threshold is that one has to "show harm".
For instance, i594 (Washington, again) which demanded the new background checks for any private transfer of a firearm: Hey, Sarcasmic, wanna take my new Walther to the range for a week and see if you like it?).
Literally.
Gun rights orgs sued and the lawsuit was kicked out of court because they hadn't shown that anyone had been "harmed" by the law, because the state had literally arrested and convicted zero people of the law.
Roger Benitez for Supreme Court!!
Judge Benitez is a saint!
re: "Magazines that hold more than 10 rounds are possibly the most commonly owned thing in America,"
I think that can't be right. At least, I hope that's not right. If nothing else, there are 330 million of us in the US at last count and I would dearly hope that each has at least one toothbrush. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority have multiple shirts and pairs of underwear, too.
Still, it's good rhetoric by the judge and it's clear that despite the AG's bleating, CA attempted to outlaw an exceedingly common item.
Nobody owns three toothbrushes, but most people with a semi-auto rifle or pistol will own at least 3 magazines for it. I'm pretty sure there are over 200 million magazine fed guns owned by American civilians now, and that means 600 million magazines.
Start off with the reality that most semiautomatic handguns come with two or three magazines. Glocks, at least in the past, came with three. I remember being disappointed that my Glock 44 came with only two. I tend to have at least 5 per firearm, so that I can load up all five, in advance, for practicing. That keeps me from just loading and firing until I shoot through all of my ammunition, because it is so fun. Oh, and then you don’t want to wear out the springs in the guns that you carry, so that means that you are up to 7 or 8.
Then there is the problem that while handgun magazines are reasonably expensive ($25 and up), AR-15 magazines are not. You can get good quality 30 round MagPul magazines from maybe $12 in most “free” states, and maybe a $1 or so less if you buy a 5 or 10 pack. I have no idea how many I have of them, at least for 5.56 or .223 rounds (I may have 10 in 300 Blackout). Rationally, you may think that you have enough, and then run into a sale where you can get 5 for maybe $50, and buy more.
Which is to say that my estimate is probably somewhere between 1 and 2 billion semiautomatic magazines in this country.
California argues that such situations are rare.
Back when anti-lock brakes were new, I once had a car salesman tried to sell me against anti-lock brakes on the basis that 'they really aren't gonna be used that often'. He wanted to instead up sell me on a better stereo/speakers.
the original public understanding of the right to keep and bear arms, Benitez says, because they were enacted either before 1791, when the Second Amendment was ratified, or long after 1868, when the 14th Amendment required states to respect that right.
That seems like it would be useful to compile into a legitimate history over that timeframe. Separate from every legal case that requires it all to be done from scratch as if it is all some new idea.
Michael Bellesiles has put together a pretty good compendium of the laws and cases from colonial through late 18th century.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/law-and-history-review/article/abs/gun-laws-in-early-america-the-regulation-of-firearms-ownership-16071794/9CE096F99BAB0B2817D8723B4182EED3
I don’t know if there’s a companion that takes it through the Reconstruction era.
You're kidding, right? You know who Michael Bellesiles is, right? The one who was stripped of his prize after it was discovered he faked his research?
Sorry, forgot that was THAT guy. I do remember someone had put out a good compilation of laws and cases, may have been the VC guy who's always posting 2A stuff.
for you californians, there will likely be a short window of time to get some high capacity magazines before some injunction or stay is put in place. The online retailers and nevada border retailers will be sold out from the rush. Might be worth to get an out of state pal to load up for you at his local friendly gunshop and ship it to you during the window.
"Defendant Attorney General Rob Bonta, and his officers, agents, servants, employees, and attorneys, and those persons in active concert or participation with him, and those duly sworn state peace officers and federal law enforcement officers who gain knowledge of this injunction order, or know of the existence of this injunction order, are enjoined from enforcing California Penal Code § 32310."
This was an injunction (but it could get stayed before it goes into effect, should the 9th Circuit wish to get slapped down again by the Supreme Court, which isn't exactly unlikely). In that case, there won't be an open window until the appellate dance is over.
"There is no American history or tradition of regulating firearms based on the number of rounds they can shoot, or of regulating the amount of ammunition that can be kept and carried,"
Um ... so what ?
Why is this an argument ? There are tons of things that we regulate that have no tradition of regulation, but we do now because it is necessary and/or relevant: stem cell research, airplanes, Artificial Intelligence, Kessler syndrome. No, I don't live in California. No, I'm not anti-gun. I just don't get why "we never did it before" is being held up as a decent arguing point.
this is a specious reasoning they use so that they can justify anything they want. "compelling public interest" is another one, and it basically means "we can do whatever we want"
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First, the other things being regulated are not directly enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Second, there is no history of flagrantly abusive infringements by legislators requiring SCOTUS to create tests to keep those legislatures in check.
Essentially, you start with an amendment that facially prohibits ALL efforts to interfere with gun ownership, whatsoever. "Shall not be infringed" is pretty strong language, a lot stronger than "shall not be utterly abolished."
So if you're going to enact a law that interferes with gun ownership, you have to identify a relevant exception to that absolute rule. What the Court chose was to declare that if a particular sort of interference was common at the time the amendment was adopted, it must have been outside the understood boundaries of the right.
So when somebody proposes an interference, such as the magazine limit, you look to see if anything of the sort was widely done at the time.
Nope, nothing remotely like it, so the magazine limit doesn't fall into an exception.
+10000 Well Said.
Neither Appeal To Novelty nor Appeal To Tradition nor Appeal To Popularity are valid arguments, but Logical Fallacies.
That said, the power to regulate magazines and ammo are not Constitutionally enumerated Powers of the Federal Government and would violate the Second, Ninth, Tenth, and Fourteenth Amendments if done by States, so that would be a valid argument against them.
As for the other items, Airplanes would fall under Interstate and International commerce and airplanes can cause harm to Life, Liberty, and Property if misused.
As for stem cells and AI, no one has demonstrated a threat to Life, Liberty, and Property from those yet.
And Kessler Syndrome could be easily addressed with the creation of the Free-Market Capitalist space salvage industry by Andy Griffith and Friends:
🙂
😉
Salvage-1 Opening theme Season 2 Starring Andy Griffith
https://youtu.be/ZDa25M-de70?si=zrQrr8C-M1lzAOXO
Like a broken record. The mindless sheep will do it again knowing full well that it's unconstitutional and will never become reality. It's the definition of insanity.
they are not mindless. They know exactly what they are doing
How many unconstitutional things have the mindless sheep succeeded at? They literally redefined everything about the USA from one-single corrupted NYC bank-run.
Its ban exempts current and former law enforcement officers, a provision that would be puzzling if magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds had no legitimate use.
Ha! That carve-out bit them on the ass.
"There is no American history or tradition of regulating firearms based on the number of rounds they can shoot" -- umm, aren't restrictions on machine guns exactly that? We can't restrict even machine guns now?
What a silly article and what a silly statement! "There is no American tradition of limiting ammunition capacity"!! Of course not, doofus. When the Constitution was written, guns were limited to ONE ROUND!!
No. Multi-round guns were not as common, but they did exist. There was the Puckle gun, with a revolving, exchangeable magazine of up to 11 rounds. It's not clear that any more than one or two demo models were ever made but there were demonstrations of firing it.
More prosaically, double-barreled pistols were fairly common. And then there were volley guns, multi-barreled, multi-shot guns, some dating back to the 14th Century. Most of them were wheeled artillery pieces, but the Nock gun was a 7 barrel flintlock musket invented during the Revolutionary War. There were also duck-foot pistols, with several barrels and one handle, for when you not only wanted to shoot at one man across a room, but all of his friends, too.
More or less true, but there wasn't an Internet, either. And most people agree that the principles of the First Amendment are still applicable to modern forms of speech; Congress doesn't just get to do whatever it wants so long as it keeps its hands off the Gutenbergs.
"arbitrary," "capricious," and "extreme."
He left out "snotty", "idiotic", and "obviously unconstitutional".
-jcr
Meanwhile, ultra-lib judge Mary K. Dimke decided exactly the opposite in the Eastern District of Washington by basically saying magazines aren't arms and they aren't mentioned in the Second Amendment therefore magazine bans are perfectly legal as they don't involve the second amendment. Clearly this is a person who doesn't know what a magazine is in the context of arms. Perhaps the blond hair dye has reached and bleached her brain leading to her belief that magazines can only be soft covered bound periodicals ranging from tens to a bit more than a hundred pages because that's about the only way one could determine they have nothing to do with arms.
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