Private Insurance and Government Programs Drive Up Health Care Costs
Letting third parties pay our bills pushes prices higher and limits our options.

Like many people, I'm trying to convince my health insurance company to pay for something for which it doesn't want to fork over cash. I don't completely blame Cigna; the bill sent by the provider is outrageous. Then again, as a third-party payer in a mess of a health care system, the company is part of the problem of distorted incentives and rising costs. Sometimes lost in the debate between advocates of a market-based health care system—which we don't have—and true believers in a fully government-controlled system is that divorcing patients from responsibility for paying for what they get is a huge problem whether bills are ultimately picked up by insurance companies or government agencies.
In my case, Cigna doesn't want to pay $4,000 for a week with a Holter monitor (external electrocardiogram) prescribed because, after I turned 50, my warranty ran out. Such is life. The reason the insurance company cites for not paying doesn't matter. I know from my wife's experience as a pediatrician and from speaking to other physicians that insurers—whether private, Medicaid, or Medicare—issue refusals on the assumption that some will never be appealed and so result in cost savings. Pushing back usually achieves results, and I'm confident that I'll prevail in the end.
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Health Care Coverage That Drives Cost Higher
I don't entirely blame Cigna because four grand is a lot of money. Outright purchasing a Holter monitor runs from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars; the bill sent to my insurer was for a one-week rental. That doesn't cover the cost of the cardiologist's skill and time in reading the downloaded data, of course. That generally runs a few hundred dollars. But prices for monitoring and data interpretation are all over the place as they are for most health care products and services. There's little in the way of a real health care market to set prices and inform consumer decisions.
"Contrary to 'conventional wisdom,' health insurance—private or otherwise—does not make health care more affordable," Jeffrey Singer, a surgeon and senior fellow with the Cato Institute, wrote in 2013. "The third party payment system is the principal force behind health care price inflation. This should come as no surprise."
Singer pointed to American-style health "insurance" as an example of the last category of Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman's four ways to spend money: in this case, spending somebody else's money on somebody else. "Here you are the least incentivized to economize, or to buy something that meets the needs or values of the recipient," notes Singer.
"When the government buys goods or services for other people with other peoples' money, special interest pleading, political concerns, and cronyism run the game," he adds. "But private insurance companies are also spending other peoples' money—the premiums paid into a risk pool—on medical services for other people. When they negotiate compensation schedules with providers and facilities, they don't have to bargain hard enough to reach the best price possible. They just have to reach a price that is good enough—one that allows them to charge premiums that compete well with rival insurance companies."
Wayne Winegarden and Celine Bookin of the Pacific Research Institute's Center for Medical Economics and Innovation agree. They point out that, in 1960, patients paid 52 percent of their own health care costs, private insurance picked up 22.8 percent, and government and other third-party payers covered the rest. As of 2019, patients were only paying 11.3 percent out of pocket, private insurance covered 33.3 percent, and Medicare and Medicaid cover 39.3 percent.
"This shift in financial responsibility creates an ever-widening conflict of interest between the payer bureaucracy and the needs of patients, and this misalignment drives the unwanted outcomes that plague the current U.S. health system," Winegarden and Bookin write.
If You Want To Know the Price, Good Luck
In an effort to alleviate such problems, several years ago the Trump administration implemented a new rule that requires hospitals to publish prices for services. If you can find them buried on websites, good luck with that. My local hospital offers an Excel spreadsheet that shows over two dozen different prices for the same procedures and services, from gross charge to different categories of self-pay, Medicare, Medicaid, and the results of negotiations with different insurance companies.
"A colonoscopy might cost you or your insurer a few hundred dollars — or several thousand, depending on which hospital or insurer you use," NPR reported after the rule took effect. "Hospitals say the transparency push alone won't help consumers much, because each patient's situation is different and may vary — and individual deductibles and insurance plans complicate matters."
Well, yes. So long as somebody else—insurance companies, Medicaid, or Medicare—is paying the bill, the price really only matters to the relatively few self-pay patients who both receive health care and are responsible for the bill. For them comparing offerings across providers is important because, adds NPR, "in some cases, the cash-only price is less than what insurers pay."
Note that experts don't distinguish between government payers and insurance companies when assessing the problems of third-party payers. While consumers pay in the form of premiums (private insurance and government programs) and taxes (government programs), these payments are divorced from decisions about prices and responsibility for bills. That creates what's called an "economic wedge."
Private or Government, Third-Party Payers Are a Problem
"An economic wedge occurs any time government policies separate effort from reward or consumers from producers," Winegarden wrote in 2009 with co-authors Arthur Laffer and Donna Arduin in The Prognosis for National Health Insurance. "When government, lawyers, or third party insurance is responsible for paying the bills, consumers have no incentive to control costs."
Supporters of single-payer systems, or Medicare for All, would transform government into the last third-party-payer standing, without even the discipline that comes from competition among third-party payers. It would double down on the problems inherent in divorcing people from the cost of the health care they use, without addressing those problems at all.
"Policymakers need to understand that the key to 'affordable health care' is not to increase the role of health insurance in peoples' lives, but to diminish it," Singer wrote in 2013. He called for putting patients back in control of their own health care costs. Winegarden and Bookin also favor moving power and responsibility from third-party payers to individuals.
If I'd responded to my cardiologist's prescription by shopping around in a free-market health care system, I would have had a better handle on price—the real price, not a grab-bag of categories. I would have looked for an affordable option. I might have opted for one of the commercial home monitors that offer alternatives to Holter monitors. And I wouldn't be arguing with Cigna about a price we agree is nuts.
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I am an Anesthesiologist and do lots of cosmetic surgery.
It is the only area of medicine where patients shop around based on price and value.
When you go to one surgeon and are told the fee for elective saline breast implants, (including the general anesthesia fee and facility fee, if any), you are now free to shop it around.
Lots of surgeon's offices will tell you the fee over the phone.
No one fee for those over 65 and another fee for those turning 18.
There is always those who go lowest price, and those who are willing to pay a little more for better service.
When insurance is paying for breast reconstruction after breast cancer surgery, you run into all these same hurdles.
Its impossible to know who is cheaper and who is better when insurance is between you and the doctor
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"If I'd responded to my cardiologist's prescription by shopping around in a free-market health care system, I would have had a better handle on price—the real price, not a grab-bag of categories. I would have looked for an affordable option. I might have opted for one of the commercial home monitors that offer alternatives to Holter monitors. And I wouldn't be arguing with Cigna about a price we agree is nuts."
Nice article, this is something I think you could write an entire piece on. The way that modern Americans think that they are interacting through free markets because the government gives them lots of options is interesting.
It's like having your computer hacked by a virus that just runs your entire OS in a super OS so that every decision you make is tracked and controlled without you even seeing the reigns. So while we think that people are interacting of their own free will in the American economy, it is more illusory than real, much like property rights in certain other times in history.
Illusory in the sense that, yes we freely trade, but all the manufacturers are regulated in what they can offer us. So it's a free trade of predetermined value (at least that's the interventionists dream) which if you think about it long enough, is only immoral when enforced through government intervention. If hospitals were competing amongst each other for price controls, we all know we would have more human life and flourishing.
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Civilization requires regulation. Logically this argument stands on its own, but many people can’t or don’t want to grasp reality defined by logic and science. Unless of course it suits their immediate interests.
Behaviour is regulated with laws to prevent selfish greedy people from coercing and enslaving those they can.
If a goal of a civilization is to have healthy productive citizens it needs regulation to achieve that. Random activities appealing to emotion and irrational desires for the profit motive do not logically achieve that goal.
If a civilization cares for its impoverished not only would it keep them alive with food, shelter and healthcare but it would take proactive steps to keep as many citizens from becoming impoverished in the first place to break the cycle passed from parents to children.
The logical conclusion is that tax funded healthcare is just as necessary as tax funded clean water and other infrastructure of civilization.
"If a goal of a civilization is to have healthy productive citizens it needs regulation to achieve that."
No, it doesn't. A civilization cannot regulate its populace to a healthy place any more than it can regulate its economic activity to a strong, productive place.
Your argument is as strong as the idea that because the government needs a fed populace, all food should be provided by the government.
Yes it is.
Only shithole nations let people starve.
Provide a cite to someone in your civilization who starved to death.
"Only shithole nations let people starve."
Since people have starved in pretty much every civilization since Babylon, by Misek's own admission, every nation is a shithole nation. So one is left to wonder what Misek's theory is based on. If no nation has ever transcended shithole status, then maybe he is expecting nations to become something they just cannot be.
But Misek gives away the game himself. He fears "selfish greedy people...coercing and enslaving those they can." Misek is projecting. He knows he is greedy and selfish, and he needs someone to restrain him from his wicked ways. And so he posits a nation run by selfish, greedy, coercive and enslaving people to..uh...protect him from selfish, greedy, coercive slavers.
Yes unregulated selfish greediness is the game I’ve exposed and you don’t like it.
Provide that cite to someone starving to death in YOUR civilization today.
You know who else wanted to boss people around and get rid of "greedy" people?
‘Hungry’ people?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZPbYrx04VI
Ruxin vs. the mall manager
That tied in so well! Hats off to you for that one! 🙂
"Yes unregulated selfish greediness is the game I’ve exposed and you don’t like it."
Fuckwit here is still hoping for the New Soviet Man! Stupid, Misek is your name.
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He’s a holocaust denying fuck, and his posts prove he’s a command economy moron.
God damn. He even defends misek.
Also not ad hominem. It is an appeal to ridicule using miseks own arguments.
He's lost it. Now he's white knighting for an unabashed anti-semite and holocaust denier. But he still will claim everyone is picking on him and he doesn't understand why.
On top of the anti-semitism and Holocaust denying, Misek is here that we only have liberties because of regulations, therefore more regulations are a good thing. Oh and misrepresenting what regulated means in the 2A, selectively picking one definition but not the far more common one at the time, so common that clocks were referred to as regulators (it was also the name of the company that made Chronometers for the Royal Navy, which needed to be extremely accurate and in regular working order, e.g. regulated, to be able to calculate longitude). Seems extremely libertarian to me.
That’s a pretty long winded way to admit that clicks are one of the “rule keepers” for time.
Did you actually have a point fuckwit?
Clocks
Do you ever not lie, fuckwit?
The pussy’s only friends are the Nazi and the pedophile global Marxist. And also bottom shelf liquor.
It's not Ad Hominem to call someone exactly what they are. With Herr Misek, it's not name-calling, it's name-naming.
He's also a worthless dumpster fire of a Nazi. Let’s not forget that part.
Actually, no. Herr Misek isn’t selfish, since the Nazi slogan of their 25-Point Program was: “The Common Good Over The Individual Good.”
Herr Misek wants us all to submit to experimentation or quarantine to a Ghetto or jump into a gas chamber if this is what his “Common Good” and his Fuhrer representing this “Common Good” so dictates.
Well, I say “Yay, Self” and to Herr Misek: “Fuck Off, Nazi!”
Either you don't understand the definition of 'regulation' or UR one of the dumbest idiots here. Nations have 'governments' (a monopoly of gun-force) either to ensure that every citizen has Liberty and Justice or to control/own people. Regulation fits the second half of that and that is where one finds sh*tty nations. As-if the literally mountain load facts of history of tyrannical governments and their horrid consequences weren't a dead give-away.
I'm assuming you're the 'dumbest idiot' type who just can't LEARN a GD thing no matter how many times you keep repeating the same mistake.
“A well regulated militia”.
Enough said.
Regulated Government =/= Regulated Economy.
In fact; they're practically opposites.
That’s nonsense.
Regulate is defined. Rational people share that definition.
Regulate
1a: to govern or direct according to rule
First Known Use 15th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1a
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/regulate#h1
And as I’ve perfectly stated. Either the ‘rule’ is to ensure liberty and justice for all or the rule is to own/control slaves by tyrannical governments. The shared definition in today’s time fits the aforementioned …because that’s what Nazi’s have turned the ‘rule’ of law into.
And if you need more of a direct/proof of that point. The SUPREME (above all others) "rule of law" (or regulation if you want to confuse everyone) is that the US Constitution FORBIDS the US government from regulating healthcare.
Sure, as long as you recognize that liberty and justice are also regulated.
As they must be. My unregulated liberty will impede yours.
Liberty and Justice are not "regulated". The 'government' is suppose to ensure Liberty and Justice via "regulation". You're flipping sh*t on it's head and making BS LIES and propaganda.
As entirely supported by your very statement, "The logical conclusion is that tax funded healthcare is just as necessary as tax funded clean water and other infrastructure of civilization."
In the magical land where "tax funding" doesn't include enslaving and/or controlling people ... because you're the dumbest idiot here and have a huge problem with the most basic of basics concepts of "logic".
Logic blows your mind. Hahaha
Liberty: the power to do as one pleases.
May I kill you if I please or is that liberty regulated by other rules?
And I see a serving of PROJECTION to boot...
So predictable.
Your proposal to STEAL for healthcare is exactly that. Pay others healthcare expenses or get shot dead (or go to jail) for your gov-gun "planned" Liberty of YOU but not THEM.
Which is exactly why 'rights' have to be 'inherent' so people like you don't confuse them as being *entitlements* to other people's labor/life.
Demanding taxes to support the infrastructure of a civilization isn’t stealing, it’s simply the cost of living and working there.
Citizens are part of the infrastructure of a civilization. Their health is just as important as the maintenance of roadwork equipment.
You’re the fuckwit who wants a free ride.
So.... Taking from one with Gov-Gun forces and putting that into the pockets of others isn't STEALING? And those who pay for their own healthcare just want a free ride?
WOW... Yep, you really are the dumbest idiot here.
Taxes are the rules of civilization.
Pay them, be punished for not paying them or I encourage you to leave and find some shithole without rules to die in.
Those are your only choices fuckwit.
How about you move your Nazi-fan *ss to a [Na]tional So[zi]alist nation and stop trying to conquer and consume this one.
USA RULES are on my side not yours. You're a treasonous traitor.
“We offered the world order!”
-Khan Noonien Singh
"We bring the world to order!
Heil Hitler's world to order!
Everyone of foreign race,
Will love Der Fuhrer'sFace,
When we bring to the world dis-order!"
-Spike Jones, "Der Fuhrer's Face." 🙂
Regulate
to make regular.
That’s a lie.
Prove it fuckwit.
Cite required.
It's a definition, fuckwit.
That’s a bald faced lie.
Prove it fuckwit.
Provide a cite.
You’re a fuckwit like the “white Indian” you emulate who doesn’t think you need to prove what you claim or refute what you deny.
You’re a lying waste of skin.
“To make regular” is the definition of regularize, not regulate.
Different words different meanings you feeble minded lying fuckwit.
Well regulated means well trained. Militia meant everyone not a specific subset of govt troops. Militia could certainly be organized by government and in being mustered and drilling, they would become well regulated. Organized militia training was unit training not weapons training. The NRA was originally founded because the states failed to muster and that laziness also meant many people had no clue how to use weapons Government did not even assign or distribute arms in most cases. People brought their own.
Which meant their regulation is that they are expected to independently learn and practice how to operate their own weapon which will then used as part of the mustered unit when necessary.
I do agree that the view of 2A that it is purely an individual right is insane. But so are the modern regulations which are entirely about govt weapons rules rather than rules for unit training.
When more people agree that 2a spells out the need for regulation meaning the demonstration of proficiency and responsibility prior to having the right to possess and bear arms there might be some progress on the subject in the US.
Look at all the fuckwits who are decrying all regulation here.
With such a stupid and corrupt population, it’s painful to imagine what a constitution created today would look like.
You feeble minded fuckwits either don’t understand or care about the process of argument in debate as a tool to conclude what is truth that all rational people share in peace.
When any claim is made, it is intended to be accepted by all as truth. Influencing all conclusions and decisions. Even lies must falsely assume the authority of truth to be effective.
If, someone has reason to think that claim is false they can attempt to refute it. This alone is why free speech is so essential.
The criteria to refute something, prove it to be untrue, is the same as the criteria to claim something is true. Using correctly applied logic or science.
If refuted, any claim is discarded to the pile of false claims, lies losing all credibility and never to be used by rational people to base conclusions or decisions on.
If the claim is not refuted, it stands as truth for all rational people to share, basing conclusions and decisions on, until the day it is refuted if ever.
This is the basic purpose of civilized human communication and the process to discern truth from lies for all rational people.
I demonstrate this in every post I make. Nobody has refuted anything that I’ve said.
You are incapable of reading or communicating honestly.
Prove it fuckwit.
He doesn't have to fuckwit; you prove it every time you post.
Eat shit and die, asshole.
No. A mere claim never stands as truth. It is a claim. If the claimant intends it to be perceived by others as truth, then the burden is on the claimant to prove or provide evidence that it is truth. The burden is not on those who would refute that claim as truth.
Which has nothing to do with the notion that we all do have to agree on the basic meta stuff of logic, evidence, etc. And a whole slew of commenters here are fucking useless in anything but shit stirring.
But even you have an issue where your sole goal is to stir shit not search for truth.
This isn’t just me being glib.
What makes you believe that to be true?
The purpose of communication, the reason why it has evolved with us, is that claims are intended to be true and accepted by those we communicate with.
We’re both doing it now.
I’m using logic and science to prove it upon request. If I couldn’t, I have no business making the claim.
"...regulated in what they can offer us. So it’s a free trade of predetermined value (at least that’s the interventionists dream) which if you think about it long enough, is only immoral when enforced through government intervention."
I never claimed for anarchism. I did not argue for no regulation. I was simply observing what the current state of the US is. I even point out in my comment that self regulation is the only moral regulation. Hence the whole immoral when enforced by violence. If no one will interact with you because you are a holocaust denying fool, then you are the one who must lie to everyone they ever meet to continue to interact. Hence, as you regulate through culture better outcomes are achieved, like how in the EU people would never know to not interact with Misek. This doesn't always hold true (Galileo, Jesus) but seems to be the best way humans have figured out so far.
Considering that you can’t refute anything that I’ve said, on what authority do you call me a liar? Prove it fuckwit.
Your choice to communicate with me says nothing about me, only about you.
It’s kind of nice having a permanent record of so many liars, to use as proof, whenever I please.
Every time you post, Nazi ignoramus.
TJ vs. misek. The confrontation we all knew had to happen eventually.
And on Juneteenth to boot. Shame.
It just kills you that no one buys your Holocaust denial. But you cling to your pathetic nazi apologist delusions.
I’ll bet you have to hide your inane Nazi ideas from most people outside the internet. A coward like you always has to hide.
Says “Elmer Fudd”.
"...Logically this argument stands on its own,.."
Bullshit; it is based on your assumptions, but you are too fucking stupid to understand that.
Can the fuckwit, you, provide any example of any civilization that exists without rules?
Hahaha
Rules and camps, right?
How else could people in Misek’s utopia learn to concentrate without first going to a camp?
Some regulation is fair, to be sure, but compare the regulations in place in 1900 versus today. Surely you don't content that we were not civilized in 1900. All our government does is add more and more, and more, regulations for every perceived ill or injury to the point of absurdity.
Another argument for another time. Suffice that you agree, regulation is necessary.
Look at all the fuckwits responding against regulation.
You can’t soar like eagles when you fly with turkeys.
Problem is; Your proposed regulation consists of ARMED-THEFT.
"tax funded healthcare is just as necessary as tax funded clean water"
Your trying to prop up NAZI regulation and pretending it's the exact same as Freedom and/or Justice regulation.
Course; the bottom line is you either see the obviousness of that or you're just playing/pretending stupid at this point.
Can the fuckwit, you, provide any example of a civilization that doesn’t enforce its rules?
Hahaha
Rules like no criminal homicide? Or rules like the government will confiscate half your wealth and mandate single poor healthcare?
There’s a wide spectrum.
Are you trying to grovel to agree with me fuckwit?
Fuck off.
You certainly aren’t agreeing with the other fuckwit who claimed “Liberty and Justice are not “regulated”.”
"Are you trying to grovel to agree with me fuckwit?"
No, fuckwit, he's pointing out that you are full of shit.
No Nazi faggot, I’m pointing out that there is a wide spectrum or ‘regulations’, as you are obtusely vague in your ravings.
And make no mistake, I will never grovel before a nazi, or any other form of socialist filth. Now go home and get your fucking shinebox, bitch.
You grovel every time I rub your face in the fact that you don’t refute what you deny or prove what you claim.
You’re still grovelling.
Sure can; The USA. Which continuously doesn't enforce "The People's" rules (US Constitution) over their own government.
...the very difference between Aggressive (code-name; Progressive) Gov-Gun usage and Defensive. Your not supporting defensive regulation; your pretending that Aggressive (THEFT) regulation and defensive are the same thing.
The US doesn’t enforce its rules eh?
Why are jails and courts so busy?
Hahaha
Because Nazi's like you and your idiocy-ilk have taken over what use to be the USA and started building your treasonous Nazi-Empire. Course you know all this; you just don't care because you're a POS criminal at heart.
Rubbing your face in your own stupidity for all to see isn’t treason, it’s a public service.
I take great pleasure in doing it. Hahaha
You feeble minded fuckwits still haven’t refuted anything that I’ve said.
If it wasn’t for regulation, we could have drug and medical procedure prices listed like a restaurant menu at pharmacies and clinics and patient could make much better decisions about their health.
If it weren’t for regulations of “The War On (Some) Drugs,” we could experiment on opioids and make drugs that could kill pain without killing people.
Moreover, if it wasn’t for “Certificate Of Need” regulations, there could be mini-hospitals in every neighborhood.
Moreover, if it weren’t for regulations on stem-cell production and regulations forbidding sales of tissues and organs, we could all have our own vat-grown “body shops” of tissues and organs to replace wore-out issues and organs and live indefinitely.
But, of course, all of this would be both profitable and healthy for individual Doctors and patients and thus anathema to your vision of “The Common Good Over The Individual Good,” right?
Fuck Off, Nazi!
You should go to your ideal shitkole without regulations and die knowing karmas a bitch.
Places where medical innovations are outlawed by regulation are the real shitholes, and Karma does not exist any more than God, Satan, the Afterlife, or Nazis that are worth a shit.
Fuck Off, Nazi!
Mis-named 'private' insurance is expensive because of the federal government requirements (along with additional state laws) of what is covered, and how much the individual is allowed/required to pay.
Welcome to practical fascism.
Just be glad you're not in Canada where you'd be arguing over how exactly you were going to commit suicide since you're no longer a plus benefit to society.
As if they would let you join the argument about the means of your demise.
Private Insurance and Government Programs Drive Up Health Care Costs
That’s why it needs to be free!
/progs
...because Gov-Guns magically makes sh*t out of thin air 🙂
/progs
/And Nazis like Herr Misek
I had to explain to my father in the hospital last fall that he was paying for all those without health insurance. He is from a generation that just does not understand not paying your own way. 85+ yrs old.Me too. Also shopping for bananas last week he made me put back the overpriced $.65/lb for $.55/lb because they were way overpriced. Of course, he votes Democrat.
Fatass Donnie said he would provide a big beautiful health care plan.
Trump promised a health care plan before the end of August. It never came.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/trump-health-care-plan/index.html
Donnie said "Nobody knew health care would be so difficult".
What a fucking moron.
Happy Juneteenth, Peanuts!
“We’re signing a health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan that the Supreme Court decision on DACA gave me the right to do,” Trump said during that interview on July 19.
..
The President also said on August 7 that he was pursuing an executive order that would require health insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions.
..
“Over the next two weeks, I’ll be pursuing a major executive order requiring health insurance companies to cover all pre-existing conditions for all customers. That’s a big thing. I’ve always been very strongly in favor – we have to cover pre-existing conditions,” Trump said during a briefing at his Bedminster golf club. “So we will be pursuing a major executive order, requiring health insurance companies to cover all pre-existing conditions for all of its customers.”
DREAMY LIBERTARIAN.!
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
What is hilarious is that if SPB had any sense of decency or fairness, he wouldn't be here posting.
Trump is bad, to be sure. But Shrike is a pedophile and a gay basher, as you can see here.
https://reason.com/2023/05/11/cnn-gave-trump-a-megaphone-and-he-used-it-exactly-as-youd-expect/?comments=true#comment-10057991
Now as you can see from that link, SPB is far, far, far worse than Trump. Trump doesn't throw around gay-bashing terms. Trump didn't traffic in kiddy porn on a public website.
If SPB actually was interested in a decent society, he would hold himself to at least the same standard as he expects everyone to hold Trump. But no. He is here every day, blathering on with his nonsense- expecting us all to give him a pass for his exploitation of children.
Don't engage with someone so demonstrably hypocritical and sleazy. Just shun him.
I just see gray boxes.
I just see gay boxes.
Don’t forget incredibly racist too.
"Trump is bad, to be sure..."
The best POTUS we've had for a century. Call that bad, if you are too fucking stupid to consider alternatives.
Enter Mr. McCain and EVERY-SINGLE ONE of the Democrats.
Typical retard; Blaming everyone except who's really to blame.
Hey faggot, wake me when you get to the part where you fuck kids and traffic in child rape videos.
Between direct government spending, health care, public education, and banking and finance, price setting in roughly 70% of the American Economy is dominated by government fiat. I am not talking about mere regulations against fraud, or disclosure requirements, or anti-gouging legislation. The government is directly setting the prices similar to a Rent Control regime.
Health Insurance companies' profit margins are set by law. They are allowed to have a certain percentage profit, and so if they want to make more money, their expenses need to go up. On top of that, Medicare and Medicaid pricing schedules set the rates for providers. And supply-side controls such as Certificate of Need requirements further affect pricing signals.
The past 20 years have seen a steady descent of the American Economy, from a point where businesses must set pricing and rise or fall on their own merit, to today where massive industries are cemented in place by government guarantees in return for heavy regulation.
I don't see how the US can step back from the brink of this regulatory swamp. Our public is willfully delusional- like the obese person who is convinced that their doctor can "fix" their many maladies. The answer is simple- exercise and diet- but the obese person doesn't want to hear it, and soon they are on a cocktail of drugs, and physical therapy for abused joints, and a CPAP machine for sleeping, and diabetes treatments, etc etc. Our Public keeps voting for politicians who will help them manage the self-imposed condition it is in, because that public is unwilling to take responsibility for its own actions.
It’s almost like you’re saying we’re not in a *takes glasses off* Libertarian Moment.
and his metaphor is spot on
I see the importance of merging between government agencies and the private sector so that everyone can benefit
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"merging between government agencies and the private sector"
That exactly what we already have and is exactly why it's so stupidly priced.
Fascist!
Everybody always leaves out the 800 lb. Gorilla when they talk about healthcare. The Gorilla's name is "Overhead".
The Doctor that I see is in a Practice with four other Doctor's. Each Doctor has an Assistant and a Scheduler. That's a total of 15 people who actually deal with the Patient (Customer). In another area there are 30 people who's only job is to take care of the Insurance paperwork. So there are 45 people total, but only 10 of them (the Doctor and the Assistant) who are actually generating any revenue. The rest are the Gorilla named Overhead. All of them have to be paid, all of them have to have equipment to do their jobs and all of them are necessary.
Let's look at the other side. I live in Pennsylvania. If you go out to the State Capital (Harrisburg) there are building after building that house the people who handle the Medicare / Medicaid paperwork for the State. If you head down I-270 towards Washington DC, you will find building after building full of people who handle the Medicare / Medicaid paperwork for the FEDERAL Government. All of those people have to be paid, the buildings maintained and equipment provided for them to work with. More Overhead.
When my Mother was alive she would get paperwork from the State Government and the Federal Government. 99% of the time it was DUPLICATE paperwork.
I'm old enough to remember going to the Doctor's Office, seeing the Doctor and paying the woman at the desk on the way out.
^^^ THIS ^^^
Jellybean counters getting paid (well paid) by the forces of Gov-Guns to do completely useless (usually negative/worse) tasks like count jellybeans.
Well said. The same thing happened with colleges and the need for more and more administrators to manage student loans/federal aid and compliance programs. Same result too -- higher costs of education.
No, no, no. The Medicare for All fairy will make overhead disappear. She will also eliminate all costs associated with staff, supplies, and meds, so we can all have unlimited FREE healthcare.
Can you say fairy during pride month?
And medicare is terrible insurance.
It only pays 80% of covered expenses, with no annual or lifetime cap on out of pocket expenses.
It has deductables
It has no drug coverage
It has no dental coverage
It has no vision coverage
It costs about $175/month per individual. (after a lifetime of paying for NO coverage!)
The article makes a number of good points, but it does overlook the fact that there is simply more that health care can do today than ever before in history. The article starts out with a real-life story of the cost of a real time portable heart monitor. Certainly, these monitors have been around for a number of years but not that many years. In my lifetime insulin dependent diabetics have gone from giving themselves insulin shots, to insulin pumps, to real time insulin monitors. The health providers can do so much more for people, but more also means more costs.
Yeah; Ya know cause actual *free* markets like televisions and radio's that aren't costing a fortune have gone nowhere.... right, right /s
Television is a free market because you don't really have to have a TV. Supply and demand works for TV. It can also work for some health care. I recently bought OTC hearing aids that were expensive but much cheaper than prescription hearing aids. Hearing aids have been around for years and frankly they are something that makes life better, not required.
Yeah; because food and teeth to eat isn't something anyone has to have and agriculture and dentistry have gone nowhere too! /s
Care to try some more BS excuses to keep believing Gov-Guns makes innovation?
Ya know my 'gun' is loaded with innovation and invents things too. /s
Mine can make Marxists go away!
When has Socialism ever NOT driven up costs?
And I don't mean some economic bubble drive-up of cost; I mean down right life threatening/enslavement type of BS hording driving-up costs.
People who use Gov-Guns to collect/STEAL money have ZERO reason not to STEAL you blind --- especially when it's done by the very SAME entity who is suppose to be ensuring Liberty and Justice for all.
What to do when government starts working for/as armed criminals instead of ensure liberty and justice?
For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/
If it's not with any articles on Free-Market health care, no!
Why is J.D. against private insurance? The word “private” is right in there. Usually libertarians love that word.
I don’t begrudge J.D. his halter strap thing if he has private insurance. If he thinks the $4k is a waste, he could buy it and then privately arrange for a tech. J.D. said himself this might only just hundreds or maybe a grand or so at most.
I like private insurance. Every time a pebble cracks my windshield, the company that replaces the glass gives me a $100 gift card to use at the outback, all without any co-pay. I get the bloomin onion, and a dessert. Sometimes I get steak, but I find it kind of heavy. Also, $100 doesn’t go as far at the outback as it once did. I have to leave room for the tip too, but the insurance gift card covers all of this. If this is not a sweet deal, what is? All insurance issues aside, I hope J.D. gets good results on his halter test, whatever the cost.
Private medical insurance would be great. Unfortunately its provisions, incentives and even the profit margins the "private" insurance company can support are all set by the government.
For the record: libertarians do not support "private" companies that are entrenched by government fiat and regulatory capture. We typically call that "fascism".
And the whole conversation sidesteps the little fact that we aren’t using insurance to insure against future calamity, but for every aspirin and scrape and doctor visit.
Exactly.
What we call medical insurance is actually pre-paid medical care with a bit of catastrophic coverage thrown in.
Imagine the cost of car insurance if the feds decided that for safety reasons, tires and wipers had to be covered without a co-pay or deductible. And to reduce global climate warming change, all tune-ups had to be covered without a co-pay or deductible.
(laws like that are why you get a "free" gift card instead of reduced premiums)
For the record: libertarians do not support “private” companies that are entrenched by government fiat and regulatory capture. We typically call that “fascism”.
Well, as long as they operate under an umbrella of "polite suggestions" from the government, then libertarians are a-ok with private companies.
The "reasonable and customary" deal ratchets one way.
When insurers poll providers for procedure costs, in an effort to determine what is usual, reasonable, and customary, there will always be providers on the high side of the mean and others on the low side of the mean. Those on the high side will keep charging what they were charging (or more), but those on the low side will see no reason to not increase their fees to match the new reasonable and customary rates.
I know that a simple mean is probably not the value used, but no matter what it is, those below the number will likely raise their rates. The next time rates are polled, the numbers will be higher, driven, in part, by the previous poll.
What would car insurance cost if it covered oil changes every 5K miles and new tires every 35K miles?
Wrong question. The right question is what would oil changes cost if they were covered by car insurance. Thinking several hundred, maybe a thousand.
They would still cost the same, but the shop would bill the insurance company $1000 and the insurance company would pay $30. But the person without insurance would be screwed
That's the thing, insurance companies don't pay the billed totals, only a small percent
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oil changes are like $30 and tires can be as low as $50 each.
Meanwhile I know someone paying $500 a month for car insurance.
That’s because of medical costs and related liability. Cars themselves are relatively cheap to replace. It doesn’t take much to have $100k in hard medical costs if there is any emergency surgery.
Heaven-forbid ANYONE remembers the day when the local medical professional would come to your house in the middle of the night for the price of a pizza…. (ref; Little House on the Prairie).
They just might get the impression all this Gov-Guns in the medical field was a MASSIVELY HUGE mistake from its very origin. As-if the very Revolutionary War for Independence wasn't fought to end this BS in the first place. Talk about a death toll.
https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive
Yes, let's shop around for the cheapest cardiologist. I'm sure nothing bad about cutting corners and cost reductions for profit motives will ever rear it's head.
Wait, do you think the most expensive Dr is going to be the best?
If it's a catastrophic problem, use your insurance. If you're looking for stress echo test, spend an hour shopping around. Odds are you can get the test cheaper.
It beats having the government and insurance companies make the choice.
No, I don't think conventional wisdom says that insurance makes health care more affordable.
"A colonoscopy might cost you or your insurer a few hundred dollars — or several thousand, depending on which hospital or insurer you use,"
this always gets noticed when we look at the cost of healthcare, but nobody ever seems to grasp just how central to the problem it is. it is because providers, in general, have no idea what it actually costs them to provide service...... they are throwing a number against the wall to see if it sticks. insurance A negotiates a rate, so they have to take that. insurance B is "out of network" so they charge them five times more. no insurance? you might just need to sell your house. the issue is less how hard it is to find prices, but how arbitrary they tend to be. they basically charge whatever they think they can get away with.
this is an obvious result of third party payers. consumers lost all incentives to price shop. providers lost all incentive to control costs, and gained incentive to charge more than they need to whenever they can. and since this is happening with all the consumers and providers, the insurers only have incentive to keep costs low enough to compete with other insurers. nobody ever seems to know or care how much any of it SHOULD cost.
I've said this for a long time, but even a lot of die hard libertarians won't believe it: privatization is only half the answer. The third party payer problem still exists. What we need is a healthcare system where the consumer directly pays for healthcare. Insurance just leads to hidden prices as well as moral hazard. I've got nothing against private insurance, but it comes with negative externalities that need to be addressed.
Catastrophic insurance makes sense, because sometimes catastrophic things happen that we don't account for. But premiums to a healthcare payment plan do NOT make sense.
And the fact that insurance companies FORBID doctors that accept them from allowing patients to pay lower rates is part of the problem. They need to show their constituents that they got negotiated savings so the person without that insurer cannot get the same deal the insurance company did.
Sometimes lost in the debate between advocates of a market-based health care system—which we don’t have —and true believers in a fully government-controlled system – FIFY – [which we also don’t have and which also doesn’t exist anywhere outside maybe Cuba] is that divorcing patients from responsibility for paying for what they get is a huge problem whether bills are ultimately picked up by insurance companies or government agencies.
Maybe what we should lose in the debate is our habit of making shit up, creating strawmen, arguing ideologies, and all the other stuff that results from structuring the ‘debate’ to be between things that don’t exist (and honestly that no one wants either) and other things that also don’t exist (and honestly that no one wants either).
There is no country on Earth that doesn’t have some sort of intermediated payment responsibility for medical expenses. It may be an interesting idea to disintermediate – but it doesn’t have jack-all-shit to do with why medical care in the US is expensive. Or why there IS a difference in the US medical system v other medical systems (regardless of what measure you do choose to differentiate).
Reality is apparently a real bitch to deal with. Hallucinations are so much better.
There was no hallucinations to Pre-Nazi US healthcare being more affordable and more competent than any other nation.
The very reason the USA was so successful has been forgotten I guess.
At one time, there have been an extremely small minority who had bad outcomes for not being able to pay for healthcare, and unable to get healthcare through the numerous charity groups that provided it on a pay as you can basis (such as the Sisters of Providence, which is now Providence Health and one of the largest hospital groups in the states, and is still not for profit). Progressives thought this was bad (it was but likely extremely rare or overblown, there is little documentation that it actually ever occurred). So, of course they decided the government should get involved, or the unions decided that companies should pay for insurance to prevent this (of course, originally these perks were offered in lieu of pay raises, which the government had restricted for the benefit of unions). Now, very few can afford healthcare and bad outcomes do occur, despite all the rules and regulations that basically force providers to provide care despite lack of payment (and which everyone else has to pay for through higher medical costs). Gee, yet another thing progressives bleeding hearts have turned to shit.
There is definitely huge evidence of bad outcomes re private hospitals. The Spanish Flu of 1918. Had nothing to do with ability to pay. Everything to do with contagiousness and the financial interest of the hospital donors (non-profits worked via donor financing not transactions) to turn away most of those with the flu – especially when capacity was reached. It is why most people died at HOME and why we still don’t know the death count except via excess statistical deaths.
Did progressives then harp on that problem – and create an alternative which was municipal hospitals built in large numbers throughout the 20’s and 30’s? Sure. But it wasn’t an invented problem. And the reality is that by 1939 it was municipal hospitals not private hospitals that were full of patients (all of whom were uninsured because insurance basically wasn’t a thing then).
Charitable hospitals have never had a problem keeping beds full. They turned people away during 1918 because there wasn't anything they could do. There still is very little you can do to treat a virus. Even anti-virals don't have that high a level of efficacy. It's called triage dipshit. Why fill your beds up with patients you can't treat, therefore denying beds to patients you can successfully treat? When you have an pandemic like Spanish Flu, you have to make tough choices that many won't agree with. You treat what you can , the others you don't. That's why the stupidity of the last three years is so jarring. They didn't triage properly. They didn't initially treat correctly (intubation and ventilation actually worsened most patients) and they sure as hell didn't quarantine properly. What was the survival rate for hospitalized patients with Spanish Flu? Approximately the same as those not treated by most estimations. So yeah, the proggirs fucked up. Also, municipal hospitals don't require Medicare, Medicaid etc. At least they didn't until the 1960s fucked everything up. For the most part they were supported by local bonds approved by the voters. And they predate the Spanish Flu. As for them being full of patients without insurance in 1939? Fucking so were just about every hospital, and I'm betting the charitable hospitals still treated more impoverished people, because that's always been their fucking mission statement. Bring up a once in a century plague, that outcomes weren't changed by medical care or lack thereof to prove we need government healthcare is pretty fucking weak sauce, even for a dimwit like you.
Well you’re wrong about the basic facts . 1939 hospital capacity utilization was over 90% for muni hospitals and around 50% for private. You can make this about ideology but it isn’t.
And those once in a century plagues are important because they a) test the limits and margins and b)they make things public that are otherwise ignored. Eg in March 2020, two local archivists in Wheeling WV paper published their research about how things happened there in the 1918 flu. Great idea and articles that wouldn’t have happened absent COVID. The more things change the more they don’t.
At any rate one part of the article was about the meetings that took place then between the two hospitals (one Catholic then now state uni; the other muni then and closed in 2019) and the city about what to do. One question being about how to pay for those who couldn’t pay. Neither hospital had any money. This is WV. Of course they didn’t. City agreed to pay both but it’s unclear whether they did. At any rate, I’ll give the Catholic hospital all the benefit of the doubt re trying to accept everyone (more so than the billionaire nameplate type) – and both hospitals agreed that triage decisions would be made by a county board
Oh and this article just indicates how many were hospitalized (550 or so) and how many died in hospital (100 or so). Both only a part of the impact in Wheeling.
Other articles about 1918 indicate why people were admitted to hospital even if there was nothing that could be done. Because simply taking care of them prevents entire families from falling apart under the strain – and then they all die. That was how the Black Death got its death toll so high.
Yet other articles indicate what happened in those places where the triage decisions were made by the hospital itself rather than a county board.
"...or the unions decided that companies should pay for insurance to prevent this (of course, originally these perks were offered in lieu of pay raises, which the government had restricted for the benefit of unions)..."
You're well read; surprised you hadn't stumbled on how we got here.
Post WWII, Truman was scared silly of inflation and kept wage and price fixing in place. As you can imagine, it didn't work and one of the work-arounds to compete for labor was the offer of paid medical insurance.
Hey, presto!
Oh, I am aware of Truman's wage fixing after the war ended, and his threatening to draft railroad workers to force them to end their strike. He was far from perfect, just a hell of a lot better than the person he replaced.
For one thing he understood how bad Stalin and communism was.
"...just a hell of a lot better than the person he replaced."
No argument from me.
Pre-Nazi US healthcare being more affordable and more competent than any other nation.
The Nazis were trying to stop Indiana Jones then.
BTW - It hasn't been forgotten. You are just making shit up. The Flexner Report of 1910 (funded by Carnegie and Rockefeller each in their 70's then) continues to drive the structure of US medicine now - esp the emphasis on specialists v GP's and the cost-is-of-no-concern and heroic medicine component. As did the later 'competition' between private donor-financed (not transaction-financed) hospitals v municipal taxpayer-financed hospitals - some of which drove the tax changes which changed how medical care got delivered.
None of which has a damn thing to do with either Nazis or libertarian narratives.
[Na]tional So[zi]alist. It has everything to do with it.
And there is nothing made-up about the state of the USA turning into a Nazi-Empire.
For them comparing offerings across providers is important because, adds NPR, "in some cases, the cash-only price is less than what insurers pay.
Another irrelevant bullshit argument. Many many years ago, I blew out my knee skiing. One of the few medical scenarios that is ideal for some price-shopping market stuff. Not life-threatening. Easy diagnosis with few complications or confusing complexity that requires some expert knowledge. No rush to decide. Surgery is elective. I didn't have insurance at the time. Or much money. Those two were obviously related.
Of course I shopped around a bit for knee surgery treatment. If I had had insurance through an employer, I would have maxed my deductible and been on the hook for $1000+. And that would have created a demand for 1 knee surgery. Since I didn't have insurance, my cost was going to be much higher. I forget but maybe $12,000. That may well have been lower than what the insurance company would have paid - but I doubt it and its irrelevant. There was no 'price negotiation' (from $12,000 to $11,000?), no leverage, and no demand for knee surgery either. Let me repeat though - there was no price negotiation. Only a reduction of demand absent insurance - or an increase in demand with insurance.
What WOULD have theoretically had an impact on prices would have been if I had shopped around for knee surgery in India or somesuch. Where the total cost may have been about $1500 max. There is still no price negotiation by the doctor with the patient. There is however potentially price negotiation if an insurer is involved. It would reduce medical spending in the US by channeling volume to India. And like it or not, a patient searching for knee surgery in India also needs an intermediary beyond Dr Google and Dr OrthopedicSurgeon.
Why can't the Indian doctor come fix you in America? Because you're free right?
Great article idea for Fiona
Indiana Jones was irrelevant to Nazi efforts in both movies. In the first movie tha Ark of the Covenant would never have been discovered, or it would have obliterated the Nazis like it did in the film. Indy’s efforts had no bearing on the latter option’s outcome. In ‘The Last Crusade’, the Grail couldn’t be moved from its existing location without being destroyed in the type of seismic event that occurred in that film. So the result would have been the same.
Well I guess its a good thing then that the real world Nazis were more focused on reshaping the US healthcare system than they were in recovering the Grail or the Ark.
there’s a typo in the article title… the author seems to actually be blaming private industry for anything.
going by the comments section for every article (I love this site), this is supposed to be a Libertarian/racist website and the idiots in this comments section DEFEND heroic businessmen and DISHONESTLY CRITICIZE public control over anything or democracy and universal human rights in general.
please try to do better next time.
Please fuck off and die, troll.
Please pick a new insult you predictable old doofus.
Please fuck off and die, troll.
Sure, sure; ...because of course [WE] mob gov-gun gangster 'public control' (i.e. democracy) is obviously what ensures universal human rights in general. /s
Or maybe; It was a Supreme Law by the founder's "the people" writing a LAW over their government ensuring "democracy" ( [WE] mob RULES! ) didn't trample universal human rights in general.
It's going to be impossible to have human rights when it seems most of the citizenry cannot even define the very reason they are suppose to be persistent in the USA.
Which isn't a "democracy" but a CONSTITUTIONAL Union of CONSTITUTIONAL Republican States.
Article IV Section 4 Republican Form of Government -
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
(knock, knock) Hello in there! This is reality calling!
Yes, the alternatives we have are less than optimal. No please provide a suggestion as to another *workable* alternative.
Or quit braying at the moon.
"Private Insurance and Government Programs Drive Up Health Care Costs"
Seriously?
There is no private insurance only the appearance of private insurance.
Health insurance is so regulated and there are so many things that they are required to cover by government rules that they are in effect, just acting as sales reps for the gubment.
Explain why my wife, who had a hysterectomy in her early 30's has had child birth, birthing classes, breast feeding classes, and all things baby as part of every health insurance policy?
Why is EVERYONE being forced to pay for things like smoking cessation, six "free" therapy sessions, a few "free" chiropractor visits, etc?
Because government requires it!
If health insurance had any kind of privacy then the policies would be more like auto insurance or even Aflac where you sit with an agent and in ten minutes they check the boxes for the coverage that you want and then you get your price.
When every policy covers the same things to the degree that they do, even when you don't want or need it, that is regulation forcing it into policies, thus not private but run by government.
“…Because government requires it!…”
Post WWII, Truman introduced med insurance tied to your employer (our of ignorance); Obo made it massively more expensive (also out of ignorance; that was one dumb fucker!)
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JD needs to look into high deductible plans, which are hoped to get more consumer behavior into our system that requires "insurers" to behave the way he's seeing. This isn't new.
He should also figure out the difference between actual insurance, employer-paid "ASO" plans and the in-between versions.
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Question:
Why aren't insurance companies telling us which hospitals they would prefer we go to for a given procedure?
When we call for pre-authorization (which you should do for anything more than a papercut), why not tell us a facility where they will pay a little less.
Rural areas may have no options, but where there are, let the patients help if they want to.
I'd think this would help their profit margin and maybe even make their premiums more competitive.
Maybe there's a reason.
As for the harping against public health. There is no free market solution for people who have no money. There are only subsidies that vary in efficiency and no solution at all. If we want everyone insured, repeal EMTALA, the first socialized medicine. People will die, yes, but death is consistent with a free market.
Will anyone advocate this, no, but let's be clear that full honesty is on no one's agenda.
“People will die, yes, but death is consistent with a free market.”
The same fuckwits who decry regulation ostensibly preferring letting the market decide all things have little or no regard for human life.
What makes them any better than the monsters of their bogeyman stories? Do monsters not put their own selfish and greedy interests first?
The unnecessary death of citizens should serve as a sobering reminder for the need for regulation to protect our resources, in this case our people, even in a civilization with markets.
But that doesn’t serve the bogeyman’s interests.
We see what your favorite single-payer health care program meant for millions, all motivated, not by greed, but by "The Common Good Over The Individual Good."
Fuck Off, Nazi!
Taking care of your health is getting more and more expensive over time, and it's actually upsetting. I can say that I try my best to support my health by myself, I have a healthy diet and I take Bio Complete 3 supplements to boost my immune system, but I understand that in case of emergency, I'll have to spend a fortune.