The New Right Isn't So New
Left-wing totalitarianism and right-wing authoritarianism are not our only options.

In the closing weeks of 1969, a debate broke out in the pages of National Review about how American conservatives should respond to the threat posed by the New Left—the expanded universe of socialists, civil rights activists, anti-war protesters, feminists, environmentalists, and other lefty radicals then making political waves. Fifteen months earlier, police and demonstrators had met in a bloody clash outside the Democratic National Convention. The year before that had seen the storied "summer of love," coverage of which drove home for many Americans the sweeping cultural changes that were afoot.
For an ornery political science professor named Donald Atwell Zoll, the implications of these developments were clear: Conservatives must reject liberalism's thanatos, or death wish—"its preference for extinction (with its ideological purities preserved) as against adaptation or revision." By purities, he meant commitments to pluralism, individualism, and proceduralism, the "rules of the game" by which liberals were convinced opposing groups could coexist in peace.
The core problem, Zoll wrote, was that the New Left had proven itself uninterested in playing by those rules. "Its adherents were obviously willing to shoot at people," he claimed. "When they talked about 'revolution,' they meant storming a hundred Bastilles, not changing the minds of men after the fashion of older and more comfortable collectivists."
In response, liberalism might have opted to "repress its opponents…thus entailing a candid recognition that it had real live opponents." Alas, "the liberal establishment was unwilling to embrace" any solution that "would involve the abrogation of its 'democratic' preferences." This, Zoll thought, put conservatives in a sticky situation. They could either "go down with liberalism, clinging to the common values and abiding by the traditional rules of the game," or they could "elect to fight, uninhibited by the liberal thanatos or by liberal proprieties as to method."
Zoll allowed that this was "not an easy choice to make." But the risk, should his side choose not to fight uninhibited, was that "totalitarian radicalism would win the day." Against such an outcome, what's a little "countermilitancy, repression, force and forms of authoritarianism"? To survive, Zoll concluded gravely, conservatives would have to reject their traditional "anti-authoritarian inhibitions" and "prepare to fight—whatever this may entail—against the tide of contemporary Jacobinism, candidly facing the necessity of employing techniques generally ignored or rejected by contemporary Western conservatives."
Among those who were disturbed by this vision was National Review senior editor Frank S. Meyer, who fired back in the following issue of the magazine. "Professor Zoll's rejection of the values of an order directed toward the preservation of liberty and pluralism is a rejection also of the American tradition, the tradition of the Constitution and the Founding Fathers," he wrote. The choice between hard left-wing totalitarianism and soft right-wing authoritarianism, Meyer argued, was a false one: "There is a third alternative, and it is the only one conservatives can embrace if they are to remain conservatives": neither Robespierre nor Bismarck but George Washington.
Zoll was, to put it mildly, unsatisfied by this rejoinder. The back-and-forth continued until Meyer's death two years later, when it went dormant—for a time.
Back in 2019, then–New York Post opinion editor Sohrab Ahmari published an essay in First Things magazine with the curious title "Against David French-ism." Ahmari trained his guns on a lawyer and writer then employed by National Review, an evangelical Christian with a long record of defending civil liberties. The piece resurrected many of the notes Zoll had sounded 50 years prior.
"Conservative liberalism of the kind French embodies has a great horror of the state, of traditional authority and the use of the public power to advance the common good, including in the realm of public morality," Ahmari wrote. Attempting to change the culture through noncoercive means, he warned, would not stop the left. Instead, conservative Christians must be willing to "fight the culture war with the aim of defeating the enemy and enjoying the spoils"—that is, with the goal of acquiring sufficient power "to enforce our order and our orthodoxy."
French, through his commitment to civility and liberal proceduralism, had "kept his hands clean, his soul untainted," Ahmari sneered. "But conservative Christians can't afford these luxuries. Progressives understand that culture war means discrediting their opponents and weakening or destroying their institutions. Conservatives should approach the culture war with a similar realism."
Thus reads the script for the modern New Right: The left doesn't play fair. Survival necessarily means responding in kind. Liberalism prevents us from recognizing our enemies for what they are.
Sound familiar?
French responded much as Meyer had. "America will always be a nation of competing worldviews and competing, deeply held values," he wrote. "We can forsake a commitment to liberty and launch the political version of the Battle of Verdun, seeking the ruin of our foes, or we can recommit to our shared citizenship and preserve a space for all American voices, even as we compete against those voices in politics and the marketplace of ideas." But as French saw it, "there is no political 'emergency' that justifies abandoning classical liberalism, and there will never be a temporal emergency that justifies rejecting the eternal truth."
The historical resonance of this exchange suggests that conservatives inclined to agree with Ahmari might want to consider what happened the last time around. The Zoll of 1970 might be surprised by the state of things five decades on. His prophecies of doom have not panned out as expected.
Zoll's call to arms rested on a belief that not acting would be tantamount to suicide. Sure, he acknowledged "a theoretical chance that democratic pluralism might somehow survive on its own, in which case conservatism could weather the storm without coming down from its intellectual mountain to employ techniques both unfamiliar and distasteful." But that possibility clearly struck him as implausible. It rested on the hope that "decisively large sectors of the population" would reject the leftist agenda and that "the New Left, through lack of either will or means, [would fail] to bring about a violent political and social upheaval that would make the peaceful continuity of power and authority impossible."
Notwithstanding all the tumult of the '60s and '70s, the New Left did fail to bring down the liberal order or bring about a violent social upheaval. Not one Bastille has been toppled in America, let alone a hundred. Democratic pluralism has endured. Totalitarian radicalism has not yet won the day. The cultural cataclysm remains, as ever, in the future.
Is there reason to believe the danger now is greater than it was then? Are Ahmari and his fellow travelers more likely to be right about the intensity and imminence of the threat they face than their predecessors were? Time alone will say for sure, although it's worth noticing that most state and local governments, nearly all law enforcement agencies, the military, and the Supreme Court in 2023 skew conservative.
Incidentally, Zoll faded from the conversation after it emerged that he had lied about earning a Ph.D. Having lost his Arizona State University professorship, according to the 2006 tome American Conservatism: An Encyclopedia, he "apparently made a new career in elephant training." Should the predictions of today's New Right turn out to be overblown, its proponents will perhaps take consolation from Zoll's example of the expansive possibilities available in our mostly free society for personal and professional reinvention.
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Yay, another paranoid article about a tiny subset of the Right.
Walking through a forest and screaming at a frog for the audacity of being green
Huh? Mickey Rat is distancing himself from and disowning extremist right subcultures — and you are saying, what: that extremist radical right subcultures can’t help themselves; they are acting according to their nature?
Wouldn't want to concern herself with the totalitarian leftist in the White House or those running institutions or spread throughout congress. Those are mo big deal but some dude nobody's ever heard of is a killer.
hi
Tiny?
Instead, conservative Christians must be willing to "fight the culture war with the aim of defeating the enemy and enjoying the spoils"—that is, with the goal of acquiring sufficient power "to enforce our order and our orthodoxy."
The dominant strain of authoritarian conservatism today is the Evangelical/Fundie Nut one. Gone are the fiscal conservatives to be replaced with the Holy Warrior conservatives.
Abortion,GaysKissing,TrannieDancing,BookBans are all I here about from Republicans these days.
I seem to recall you were banned for posting kiddie porn here, Pluggo.
In this post Buttplug pretends it's 1992 and the biggest threats to liberty are the Moral Majority types.
And why does he think that they're religious zealots? Because they don't want their kids castrated and sexualized by a government endorsed sex cult, which for Buttplug is pretty fucking bad.
But given that the left abandoned biological procreation, the only way they can propagate is by recruiting offspring of people in the center and right.
Well it still is. Just the dominant strain if moral majority demands come from the left now.
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turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
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^ Repetitive but definitely spot on.
SPB seems to have a running record of lying on every post.
Zero credibility pedophile once again showcases his lack of credibility.
The abortion debate is the same as it has been for 50 years. No one gives a shit about gays kissing or trannies dancing, they just don't want it rubbed in their faces. People have always made judgements about what is age appropriate to be included in school libraries.
I think the Republicans you hear live in your head. What I hear from Reppublicans is mostly on economic issues and corruption in government.
"Yay, another paranoid article about a tiny subset of the Right."
You mean like the various paleoconservative commenters here that make this exact argument on a daily basis? The ones who cheer Ron DeSantis when he retaliates against an entire company because they spoke out against one of his policies? The ones who excuse the authoritarian strain of cultural conservatism that enlists the power of the stste to prevent American culture from moving in a ditection tbey find distasteful?
This is literally what Ron DeSantis, the candidate closest to unseating Donald Trump atop the Republican party, advocates on a regular basis.
Not such a small subset, is it?
Is making Disney follow the same rules as every other company retaliation?
Only if you want to mutilate and / or fuck children.
" that enlists the power of the stste"
You mean like these guys?
"Nelson" knows that California just created a bill that takes children away from their parents if they don't go along with the alphabet sex cult's gender insanity, yet he has the audacity to pretend that they're not enlisting the power of the state.
I've never claimed any such thing. I don't believe that denying a child's sexuality is a reason to take the child away from their parents. If the parents resort to abuse, that's a different ghing, but there isn't a difference between abuse based on rage at sexual orientation and abuse based on rage at not cleaning the dishes or alcoholism or anger management failures or any other reason. It's the act, not the impetus, that matters.
If you want to disparage me for my beliefs, at least know what those are.
"I don’t believe that denying a child’s sexuality"
Which is exactly what you castrationists are doing. Gaslighting gay kids into thinking they like boys because they're actually a girl.
"If the parents resort to abuse, that’s a different ghing"
But your law isn't about abuse, so don't wave that red herring. There's been laws against beating your kids for over a century. This is about a depraved sex-cult using government force to abduct your kids if you don't play along with their ideology.
The very definition of a movement enlisting the power of the state to prevent the proletariat from opposing them.
"Gaslighting gay kids into thinking they like boys because they’re actually a girl."
No one is gaslighting anyone into anything. Trans people exist. For whatever reason, you are full of rage about that. You want to force parents and doctors to share your rage or, at least, be prevented from doing something as simple and temporary as prescribing puberty blockers.
Sorry, I don't subscribe to the "liberty unless I hate it" version of faux-libertarian beliefs. I don't care whether someone is or isn't trans. I'm not trans, nor do I have any trans kids, so it isn't an issue for me.
But liberty is vitally important, and claiming that everyone who gets trans care is getting surgery is as dishonest (and unserious) as it gets.
Reasonable people know that when you have to present a vanishingly small outcome as common, you are making a bad argument. Lunatics think it is perfectly valid.
"But your law isn’t about abuse"
I don't support it, so I don't know why you think it's "my law".
"There’s been laws against beating your kids for over a century."
That's my point. Beating your kid is a reason to take children away. Not affirming their gender identity isn't.
"The very definition of a movement enlisting the power of the state to prevent the proletariat from opposing them."
So you're a Marxist, fighting for the proletariat? Interesting. But ideology aside, coercive laws are loved by the fringes because their beliefs aren't convincing to most people. Whether it's this law or Ron DeSantis' platform, it's coercion due to a failure of convincing. Rather than accepting that most people don't agree, the power of the state is employed. And it's a very, very bad thing.
"No one is gaslighting anyone into anything. Trans people exist."
Actual trans people do exist and are 0.006% of the population, and because they're genetic anomalies they rarely survive birth let alone puberty.
However, the children you evil deviants call trans, are mixed up gay kids pressured by the pederastic sex cult into becoming castrati.
It's so abominably loathsome what they're doing to these kids, that even though I'm strongly against the death penalty, I almost feel that there should be an exception.
If it's not coming across, your pals utterly revolt and disgust me.
"So you’re a Marxist"
Yes, only Marxists can talk about the proles, Shrike.
"However, the children you evil deviants call trans,"
See, the difference here is I don't make unfounded claims about other people's gender or sexual orientation. People who say they are trans? Those people I will say are trans. People who say they aren't? Those people I will say aren't trans. Because I know that I don't have more knowledge than they do about themselves.
You, on the other hand, are so right about everything that when someone says they are trans, you say, "No, you aren't. You're what I say you are. I don't know anything about you, but I'm right about you and you are wrong about yourself".
"mixed up gay kids pressured by the pederastic sex cult into becoming castrati"
Less than .001% of trans people get sex reassignment surgery when they are minors. That's for all reasons, medical or otherwise. Even fewer get bottom surgery as minors.
So why do cultural conservatives lie and say it's the norm? Is it because they are idiots or becuase they are ignorant? Or, maybe, because they are extremists who believe batshit crazy things? Probably all three, with bigotry thrown on top like a sauce to tie the whole dish together.
"It’s so abominably loathsome what they’re doing to these kids"
Your opinion, backed by zero medical knowledge, absolutely no statistical support, a virulent hatred of trans people, and complete ignorance of any details about the cases, is irrelevant to anyone except you and whoever is unfortunate enough to be in your family. Those are the only ones over whom you get to have the power to decide.
Parental decision-making says you are irrelevant. Personal medical decisions say you are irrelevant. Bidily autonomy says you are irrelevant. Individual liberty (you know, one of the cornerstones of libertarianism?) says you are irrelevant. In fact, nothing except your own self-importance says that your opinion is relevant.
Why should anyone care what you think about their life?
"If it’s not coming across, your pals utterly revolt and disgust me."
And no one cares. Your feelings are irrelevant, as well.
"Shrike"
If you are too stupid to recognize that everything about me, from my issue profile to my writing style to my home state, etc. is different than Shrike, you are even more clueless than you seem. And you are about as empty-headed as it's possible to be, short of being brain-dead.
"a child’s sexuality"
Time to get the chainsaw
Children don't grow chromosomes until they're 18.
"...You mean like the various paleoconservative commenters here that make this exact argument on a daily basis?..."
Naah. We mean slimy piles of lefty shit like you.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
California loses its mind:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/06/california-is-losing-its-mind/
“ACalifornia bill, AB 957, would require family courts to interpret a child’s “health, safety, and welfare” to “include a parent’s affirmation of the child’s gender identity” for the purpose of custody disputes.
The bill, which has already passed the state assembly, was sponsored by Assemblymember Lori Wilson, who encouraged the transition of her own child, and who would like to see similar laws enacted in every state. It is of a piece with last year’s trans-tourism bill, encouraging out-of-state minors to travel to California to undergo transition treatments behind their parents’ backs, as well as a bill passed earlier this year requiring foster parents to agree to “best practices for providing care for LGBTQ+ youth,” including — of course — “gender-affirming care.”
Already we have seen the toxic effects of gender ideology infiltrating family law. Across the country, activist-minded judges are penalizing parents who don’t accept the claims of trans activists. Judges in California, Illinois, and Texas have denied custody rights to divorced parents opposed to, or even skeptical of, their child’s transition. In some cases, judges have received special “training” on these matters from transgender activists.”
So much for parental rights on medical issues.
Speaking of trannies, when will Audrey Hale's screed be released? What could possibly be written that is simply too dangerous for the American people to read?
Pretty amazing how easily teams lined up on that one. Even Transgender activists seemingly intuitively know that silencing this transgender person's voice is vital to the cause... so something that they normally would insist upon is switched to something that obviously must be kept private.
What is unamazing is how Reason has fallen in line on the matter.
Duh, trannies are now so much cooler than libertarians.
So - if conservatives had listened to Zoll in 1969, do you think we'd be reading stories like that today? This is why classical liberalism is worth preserving?
This was one of the most astonishing transformations in history. Roughly 1 month ago "gender affirming care" for children was a right wing conspiracy theory that doesn't exists.
So sayeth them all. Loudly and with passion. If you claimed that hospitals were performing "gender affirming" surgery you were condemned and censored on YouTube and Facebook. If you said that was on anyone's agenda you were a kook who is making up lies.
And now? They all are marching under a flag to make it mandatory. The state is going to intervene and ensure that kids get their gender affirming medications and surgery before puberty.
In a month. From myth and conspiracy theory to obvious civil right that must be enforced by the state.
I know mobs are crazy... but this is next level. The group that holds power in this country went full Orwell. They angrily insist that we have always been at war with Eurasia, despite having rallied for our Eurasian allies last month.
It is scary to watch. Not for the outcome, but for what it says about how easily manipulated crowds are. For what it says about how dangerous the propaganda machine is. If they can convince the mob to move from insisting that claiming "hospitals are performing gender affirming surgury" is an extremist transphobic lie to insisting that the state must require gender affirming surgery in just a month, they can convince the mob of anything.
Obama said Romney was a backwards rube for claiming Russia was our enemy or worthy of any serious consideration. 4 years later, the same party loudly insisted that the Russians were so dangerous they controlled the country via Facebook memes and secret control of Trump.
Now we don't even vote before sending tens of billions in military aid to directly support a war against Russia.
Obama was talking about Russia as a military threat. He was correct.
Russia as a subversive anti-Democratic threat that colluded with the Republican Party was not a possibility with Romney.
It took Trump to go all kissy-face with Putin - to the horror of old-line conservatives.
Still pushing the discredited Russiagate hoax there, Shrike?
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Obama was talking about Russia as a military threat. He was correct.
According to Biden, Obama was incorrect, as evidenced by Biden's willingness to engage Russia militarily.
Huh?
Seeing Russia as a military threat gives rise to arguments both for opposing and appeasing Russia. There is no perfect, risk-free way to respond to Russia’s aggression.
You may disagree with Biden’s policy toward the Russia-Ukraine war, but his choosing limited opposition to Russia is not evidence Biden doesn’t see Russia as a military threat.
(And, no, that was not a defense of Biden’s policies. If you think that’s what I said, you either have bad reading comprehension or are purposely misconstruing what I wrote. I am just calling Diane/Paul out on her/his baloney.)
And America keeps marching forward with flags of cut off dicks and breasts while the rest of the world who used to be at the front looks at long term studies and starts to head back.
What worries me isn't the issue of the day. It is the 180 degree about face. One firm ideological position to another firm ideological position that is diametrically opposed. In weeks. En mass.
We know of mob behavior in emergent and threatening situations. Lynch mobs running off to murder the outsider after allegations of violent crime.
But this?
This is the stuff that made me discount Orwell and Huxly as being too over the top.
Even the Nazi blood libel took years to build a mob. This was weeks.
Maybe 100 million partisans went from "it is a myth" to "it must be required" in days. And there wasn't even an argument. No debate. No facts changed.
They were simply told what to do. One day the news coverage changed their story... and the minions followed. They spoke it into existence. And the minions ignored their memory of what they chanted yesterday.
Or maybe consider they were lying when they called it a myth so those that don't follow this stuff are primed to reject things like this as true.
This. ^^^^^^
This is far closer to the truth of the matter, and I follow this issue very closely.
It's a kind of tiered system that's in place. A group close to the issue, the framers, the founders of the issue are lying. Their lies are "received" by members of the press and other partisans to take them as truth and communicate them in the culture. There's a small group of committed, ideological actors, and a very large group of useful idiots-- red guard soldiers, if you will.
At the bottom of this thread I'm going to post a long form interview with a former "woke" lefty who, according to her own account "escaped the cult". What's interesting about her account is she gives very detailed accounts of why, who and how these ideas are spread. She was linked with NGOs who insert messages into the "stream", if you will, she was a Wikipedia editor and she describes how she's singularly responsible for certain high-profile edits that still exist to this day in Wikipedia, all in the name of driving a narrative. She worked with an NGO called "Air Traffic Control" that would work with Hollywood studios, writers, comedians and other people (and the name "air traffic control" becomes much more chilling when you 'get' its meaning) who would literally ask for certain 'woke' or progressive messages to be inserted into all communications, comedy skits, late-night shows etc. She points out that when suddenly everyone in entertainment and/or news are "talking about the same thing" there's a reason why. *cough*Ron DeSantis*cough*
https://twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1669124393094742016?t=6YZnJqpbj8RkYviVzxHrLw&s=19
#SpiderManAcrossTheSpiderVerse has been banned across the Middle East
Many believe it was because of a 'protect trans kids' flag that appears in the film
(via @EsquireME)
[Link]
Yes, the gaslighting is absolutely stunning, not just with the quantity (which we expect), but the speed at which it occurs. We were made to read Brave New World in high school, and I found myself siding with The Savage time and time again while reading the book. I also chose to read Animal Farm in junior high for a book report. As soon as the gang of pigs headed by Squealer decided to do something, the sheep would repeat it as if it had always been fact. This mob, prodded on my social media (which speeds up everything) is basically the sheep.
Even the Nazi blood libel took years to build a mob. This was weeks.
The Nazis didn’t have Twitter, TikTok, or 24/7
newspropaganda channels to quickly build a narrative. Also, people back then weren’t quite as dumb and easily lead as they are now.Theory: “they” (whoever “they” are) saw how easily lead most people were during the COVID freakout and how easily they could go from one extreme to another and people would just go along with it. They went from saying “don’t wear masks” to “wear masks 24/7, even in your own home” and from “don’t trust the ‘Trump vaccine'” to “anyone who doesn’t get the jab is an evil piece of shit deplorable” at the drop of a hat and most of the easily lead lemmings just went along with it.
I used to give people a little bit more benefit of the doubt. I used to assume that most people were capable of at least some level of critical thought and it was only a small minority who are easily lead, barely functional automatons. Now I’m pretty sure it’s the other way around and unfortunately, our so called “betters” see it too and are taking full advantage of it.
"We have always been at war with Eastasia."
Some people think of 1984 as a roadmap.
To a utopian dream state.
All lefty scumbags think they’ll be a member of the inner party.
"It is scary to watch. Not for the outcome, but for what it says about how easily manipulated crowds are. For what it says about how dangerous the propaganda machine is. If they can convince the mob to move from insisting that claiming “hospitals are performing gender affirming surgury” is an extremist transphobic lie to insisting that the state must require gender affirming surgery in just a month, they can convince the mob of anything."
What's important here is figuring out why it's such a priority to condemn these children to a lifetime of pharmaceutical dependence, sterility, and the inability to experience an orgasm.
Either their parents reject them for their "trans identity" or they resent their parents for not protecting them, either way the activists and government will "be there for them" and in doing so be assured of new footsoldiers for their next emisserating crusade.
"What’s important here is figuring out why it’s such a priority to condemn these children to a lifetime of pharmaceutical dependence, sterility, and the inability to experience an orgasm."
You mean research? That takes time, effort and money. Pharmaceutical dependence makes money.
"You mean research? That takes time, effort and money..."
Shits like you can't be bothered.
"“hospitals are performing gender affirming surgery”
I'm not sure what all the fuss is. Hospitals for decades now have been performing abortions which end the life of the non consenting fetus. Most Americans approve of the practice, including Trump and many of his supporters. Any 'gender affirming surgery' is a walk in the park compared to what is essentially summary execution of a human fetus.
Yes, democrats love killing babies. The ones that aren’t killed are them targeted by democrats for rape and mutilation.
You just be so proud of your party.
Ronald Reagan 1981 – 1989
Abortion rates hovered at 24-23 per every 1,000 women between the ages of 15-44, ending at 24 in 1989.
George H. W. Bush 1989 – 1993
Abortion rates fell from 24 to 23 per every 1,000 women.
Bill Clinton 1993 – 2001
Abortion rates fell from 23 to 16.2 per every 1,000 women.
George W. Bush 2001 – 2009
Abortion rates hovered at about 16 per every 1,000 women for most of Bush’s time in the White House, then dropped from 15.8 in 2008 to 15 in 2009.
Barack Obama 2009 – 2017
Abortion rates plunged from 15 per every 1,000 women in 2009 to 11.6 in 2016.
So, by extension, you think genital mutilation will eventually taper off a bit as we steadily get more socialist from cradle to the grave?
Who knows? Until we get a more complete understanding of the transgender phenom, we can only guess.
If the whole issue hadn’t been made a focus of the Blue Team vs. Red Team culture wars there would be fewer people interested in transgenderism. If the stupid culture war were de-escalated starting now, interest would drop off.
There would be any interest if the left wasn’t insane and evil.
But of course; “Both sides!”
I’m not sure what all the fuss is. Hospitals for decades now have been performing abortions which end the life of the non consenting fetus. Most Americans approve of the practice, including Trump
One doesn't have anything to do with the other, but to address your abortion claim, that's a rhetorical trick that Reason has employed multiple times.
Yes, 75% of Americans (based on the last polling I was aware of) support abortion with limits.
If you read the polls carefully, that 75% favor abortion before the end of the first trimester. After that 1st trimester, support starts dropping radically. Often times, that 75% figure is given with an (...) to obscure that uncomfortable fact.
"One doesn’t have anything to do with the other, "
They are both examples of what happens to children in hospital. Killing them goes without comment. The howls of condemnation are reserved for surgery. I think you should re-examine your priorities.
"If you read the polls carefully, that 75% favor abortion before the end of the first trimester."
What's your point? Abortion means killing the fetus. Whether it occurs before or after the first trimester, the result is the same.
“They are both examples of what happens to children in hospital.”
Yawn. The vast majority of people (unfortunately) do not believe that a 2 month old fetus is a child. So mtrueman’s analogy falls apart right there. People don’t approve of killing children without their consent, and they don’t agree with neutering them.
But, as we see above, mtrueman does not suffer this delusion. Mtrueman indeed calls a 2 month old fetus what it is- a child- and mtrueman sees no big fuss in killing them- or chopping off their genitalia. A great number of americans are morally confused. Mtrueman is morally clear, and that is what makes mtrueman a monster, just like all the commie monsters that came before.
" The vast majority of people (unfortunately) do not believe that a 2 month old fetus is a child. "
Is that not the horror deserving of our attention? Why are the howls of condemnation reserved for surgery, presumably on consenting patients? I get that there's a sexual dimension to the latter that absent in the former, and this will alarm the puritans among us, but still, sex aside, it's murder we're brushing under the carpet.
" Mtrueman is morally clear, and that is what makes mtrueman a monster, just like all the commie monsters that came before."
Enough about abortion, surgery and sex. Time to discuss me!
What’s your point? Abortion means killing the fetus. Whether it occurs before or after the first trimester, the result is the same.
Tell that to the 75% of Americans you cited.
" Tell that to the 75% of Americans you cited."
I'm telling anyone who cares to read me that killing children is worse than performing surgery on them. If you disagree, make an argument. I understand if you think that the sexual aspect of the surgery makes it more repulsive than an abortion. I think the finality of death trumps any puritan squeamishness.
You deserve a slow and painful death by ass cancer.
Some people make the argument that life in prison is cruel & unusual punishment to which you could make the argument that the death penalty would be the greater mercy.
The parallel here being that making a child live in a mutilated state is at least equivalent cruelty and possibly the greater.... [cruelty over time]
"the death penalty would be the greater mercy"
I don't know anyone who seriously suggests this. On death row in prisons in Texas and some other states inmates are allowed to study, attend religious observances and spend time outside their cage. They cling to these luxuries and want more, not less.
" making a child live in a mutilated state "
I'm not sure what you mean. It's surgery we're talking about, or do you have something else in mind? Who is supposed to be 'making the child live?' You mean someone is forcing the child to continue to live after surgery instead of killing or letting the child commit suicide? Why is it cruel to perform a surgery which the child, with informed consent, agrees to undergo? It's not clear what you're arguing for. It can't be we should pre-emptively execute any child seeking this surgery to prevent future suffering, can it?
Republic >>> Democracy
But remember, conservatives (read here: "sane people") shouldn't risk getting too authoritarian in response to this psychotic totalitarianism. That would be bad.
That is the one puzzle piece that does not fit.
Libertarians are famously ideological. Libertarians will die on insignificant mole hills for principles.
Yet for 15 years, our flagship libertarian magazine has drifted away from principled libertarian stances and toward explaining why people taking principled libertarian stances are wrong to oppose those who push authoritarian or anti-liberty actions.
"Republicans pouncing" on anti-liberty actions somehow became the massive issue. The normal reaction of marginal groups is go cheer on any allies they can get. Much of the libertarian caucus definitely felt this way and said "welcome to the fight!".
But not libertarian journalists?
The most charitable interpretation is that they see themselves as LGBT "allies" and that is a more important status to them than standing against the authoritarian excesses of the political side of that movement.
Yeap. Charles Koch was clear that his only concern was subjective nonsense on this subject. He literally defended teachers ignoring parental rights because a parent might be abusive. So state had more say because of a small probability. Of course ignore teachers might be abusive too.
Do you think Charlie's daddy mess up his mind?
They made this shift before the "movement" shifted to LGBTQAI+ ideology. Years before.
Oh yes, back around 2014 Shackford was initially defending Houston trying to require businesses to let trans into opposite sex spaced. His position evolved into "bathroom panic" when that sparked a counter movement from the Right.
It's product differentiation. They can't afford to be seen as on the popular side, because there are too many people — competitors for affection and money — on the popular side. Hence "boaf sides", no matter how hard they have to squint to find the wrong and avoid the right on one side, no matter how much they have to downplay the degree and power of the wrong on the other side.
Reason came late to this practice. Cato was heavily into it 45 years ago. They even had a very concrete reason for doing so with their "Byline" radio commentaries, as I forgot whether it was Dave Boaz or Chris Hocker explained to me: that the Fairness Doctrine was still alive; hence the inclusion of Julian Bond in their rotating stable of commentors. But it was never such a severe and sustained masquerade as that put on by Reason of late.
So for differentiation they've chosen the side of literally every mainstream media institution, the State and hordes of large company marketing departments?
Libertarians being allies to gays makes some sense when there were laws on the books making their private, consensual behavior illegal. Now it's just a personal feeling that has nothing to do with being libertarian one way or another.
Because they aren't libertarians so much as libertines in libertarian skin. They're happy to have food trucks, open borders, sex workers, weed, etc., as long as they can distance themselves from the more principled stuff. I get the feeling that this is what their Big Daddy Charles Koch wants, and it's more aligned with the WEF and people like Soros than actual libertarianism.
They’re happy to have food trucks, open borders, sex workers, weed, etc., as long as they can distance themselves from the more principled stuff.
What you're complaining about is also the principled stuff - but just the principled stuff you don't approve of. Open borders and drug legalisation have been libertarian principles for years.
It seems that many right-wingers are happy to espouse libertarian ideas - even, in some cases, hilariously describing themselves as "libertarians" - but only as far as those ideas they see as favouring them, When an idea triggers their puritan button, or their nationalist button, or their religion button, why then, the case is altered.
"What you’re complaining about is also the principled stuff "
No, you are just to dense to understand the difference between principle and desired outcome.
Weed being the prima fascia example. Oh, sure they will whine about the heavy handed legal and regulatory burdens imposed through state sanctioned marijuana, but not because it in an affront to liberty, merely because it is economically inefficient.
They are not libertarians so much as they are utilitarians who want government imposition of their preferred outcomes.
I see them more as hipster doofuses than anything else. I don't think there is any nefarious plan behind it. Which does mean that they aren't very well aligned with actual libertarianism, anymore and they won't address the serious structural and cultural issues that are driving our society further and further from anything libertarians might support.
“Republicans pouncing” on anti-liberty actions somehow became the massive issue. "
Because until recently libertarians have supported Republicans. Ron Paul, for example. Republican pouncing is only a massive issue with disappointed libertarians.
They wear masks so they don't look like Republicans.
When a journalist publicly declares this, what he's saying is: I'll step over the Truth's unconscious body in the street, if reaching out makes me look like I support Ron DeSantis.
That might be ok for a normie, but for a journalist, that's a red flag.
So much for parental rights on medical issues.
The proposed California bill is awful, just as you say.
The conservative response, instead of taking a reasonable, moderate, libertarian position of sticking up for parental rights, is to overcorrect, taking away parental rights by passing bans on transgender care.
One of the stupidest things about the Team Blue vs. Red culture war is the finger pointing. It's always, "the other team is evil!" But the one pointing the finger never sees how they are perpetuating and escalating the struggle. (In the case of transgenderism, a struggle over what was a very marginal issue.)
In martial arts there is acknowlegement of how one strengthens an enemy by direct, unbending opposition. Team Blue and Red culture warriors don't see how they feed on and strengthen each other in a yin/yang cycle of dumbshittery. And, stupidly, turn marginal issues that affect almost nobody into major cultural wars.
I see Meyer's point. It's hard to convince people of the righteousness of liberal society while also repressing competing ideas. At the same time, what do we do when a plurality of Americans comes to support repression in the service of their ideologies? I'm not really willing to "try out" such things as hate speech laws or bans on political parties in the hopes that people will realize what a bad idea they are. If you come with a majority in favor of officially banning e.g. the Catholic church, then I'm willing to repress your majority, even though I see the contradiction in doing so.
Apparently breaking the seal on social taboos is dangerous. We spent 230 years pretending that a free press was sacrosanct. Even when it wasn't, we at least kept the theater.
Then social media came along and made "free press" a real democratic process. Anyone could reach all 300 million Americans.
And the propaganda machine that desperately fought AM talk radio went into overdrive to clamp down on dangerous free speech of the masses. And somehow they managed to convince their minions the loudly demand that their free speech be policed and censored.
Once that seal was broken, everything flew apart. The social contract broken, everything is now on the table. Budgets don't exist. Trillion dollar spending bills don't need debate. In fact, debate is dangerous. Minions will dance to any tune.
And somehow pictures of rioting hippies is representatives of a story about “the new right”.
Slade effectively endorses the left's use of power to destroy and violate our rights. She takes no time to actually criticize the left for employing more egregious tactics. She offers no avenue for an appropriate effective response. Her series of articles attacking fringe right voices amount to advocacy for unilateral disarmament against an aggressive and unscrupulous foe. How is that not the same as endorsing the left?
If she (and Reason in general) were remotely libertarian then they would apply the NAP and identify the aggressor first. It is this failure and the pattern of how they do so that firmly places them as activist progressives.
Both-sides-ism is out of control, and nobody even talks about it. Saying that e.g. the left is far and away more totalitarian and repressive today than the right even fifteen years ago is more taboo than saying you can't truly turn a male body into female or vice versa. You can't impugn the noble motives of the left even when their brownshirts are literally burning and pillaging in the streets, and tenured professors are being fired for questioning the party line du jour.
And I blame (mostly) the social media-driven trait of assuming that if a person criticizes A, then they must also fully support whatever A opposes. Free speech for nazis? Oh ho, guess you're a nazi too! And thus dies public dialogue.
You might check out Herbert Marcuse's "Repressive tolerance" for an interesting deep dive into the contradictions.
The historical resonance of this exchange suggests that conservatives inclined to agree with Ahmari might want to consider what happened the last time around. The Zoll of 1970 might be surprised by the state of things five decades on. His prophecies of doom have not panned out as expected.
Are you out of your fucking mind? Have you even looked at the country recently? Did you miss the tranny strip-tease on the White House lawn the other day? Miss the news of how the FBI had recordings from the guy who bribed Biden at the same time Trump was being impeached for asking Ukraine to investigate bribes paid to Biden?
What the shit, Slade?
My thoughts exactly. Whether Zoll's specific outcomes came to pass or not he was right about the culture war to come. We now live in a banana republic where the power of the state is weaponized against political adversaries and this goes way beyond Trump. Election laws are changed to facilitate fraud ensuring a one party federal government. Bald faced criminality by the left is completely ignored while 19th century statutes are resurrected to prosecute the right. To say that this looks anything like classical liberalism is an insult to the reader.
That might have been the single most bizarre fucked-up moment at the White House.
They hung the progress flag front and center, sending the unmistakable message that the American people have been conquered by a hostile, illegitimate force
It’s too late- the left has insidiously captured education, media, local governments, and of course entire states like California and NY. I don’t know if declaring outright war on them 50 years ago would have made much difference, but one thing that could have with education at least would have been for the government to have not subsidized college loans, which has fueled the spike in tuition and salaries of administrators who come up with the most vile of leftist ideas.
It is like Reason writers had never heard of the public plans to create a long March through the institutions.
It’s too late
Baloney. That's pure conservative victimhood narrative.
Conservatives have a lot of power in this country, and could have more influence if they would start acting like mature, civil grownups instead of childish asses.
"Progressives understand that culture war means discrediting their opponents and weakening or destroying their institutions. Conservatives should approach the culture war with a similar realism."
What is funny is that the right today still can't see that *using what you said against you* is not "playing dirty" or "discrediting" someone unduly.
Maybe the new right should just stop being such shitty people and then they wouldn't get insults lobbed at them huh? At the least you could disavow the pockets of assholes within your own ranks rather than ignoring them and their actions.
At the least you could disavow the pockets of assholes within your own ranks rather than ignoring them and their actions.
And, how do you feel about the trannies who shout women down and physically attack them for having the temerity to not want to see penises in their single-sex changing rooms and spas, anyway? And the antifa scum who commit arson on a grand scale whenever something they don't like happens?
At the least you could disavow the pockets of assholes within your own ranks rather than ignoring them and their actions.
They're like cops in that you'll never see one of them telling one of their own to calm down.
Poor sarc. It’s always about cops.
Fuck you Shitlunches. You just don’t like it when victims of your Marxist masters fight back. And get ready for more of that.
You people need to end.
They're not people
Is there reason to believe the danger now is greater than it was then? Are Ahmari and his fellow travelers more likely to be right about the intensity and imminence of the threat they face than their predecessors were?
The New Left that rejected the pluralist compromise essentially has the dominant position in America's institutions, including federal law enforcement, the bureaucracy, and increasingly the military. And they've been consistently dismantling the authority and legitimacy of the local and traditional institutions the don't control for decades. So, yeah, I'd say the danger is quite a bit greater.
Although I don't agree with Ahmari's proposed solution, only a babbling fool would ignore one of the points he raises. The truth is that establishment liberalism (and I include the Reason/Cato axis in that category as much as David French) really, in practice, doesn't follow the liberal claims y'all's panties are in a wad about Ahmari rejecting. It's well and good to talk about a marketplace of ideas. But, how do you square that with the state subsidizing some of those ideas through professorships at public universities? You can talk about drag queen story hour being a "blessing of liberty" all you want. But, you had better be ready to studiously ignore the fact that it only really became a thing with the encouragement of the state in public schools and libraries financed at gunpoint from people who'd never sign on to the project.
As I said, I don't think Ahmari has the right solution to the problem. I think he's hopelessly naïve if he thinks the conservative power brokers he'd put in place to "enjoy the spoils" of conservative victory wouldn't quickly morph in to precisely the same sort of technocratic-managerial class whose sensibilities he finds so repugnant. Like it or not, David French (or Stephanie Slade) are better suited to play the role of courtier than Sohrab Ahmari and keeping the court in place is going to ensure their rule. But, if Ahmari has the wrong answer, it doesn't mean that honest libertarians should ignore his question.
Seems to me that the whole 'drag queen story hour' debate is turning into the motte/bailey argument that the immigration debate has turned into.
Immigration motte/bailey:
Motte: We just want to clamp down on illegal immigration!
Bailey: Actually, we are skeptical of *all* immigration, and want to limit if not stop all immigration.
Drag queen story hour motte/bailey:
Motte: We just don't want state-subsidized drag queen story hour!
Bailey: Actually, we don't want trans women talking to kids at all, because we view trans women as being degenerate perverts, and we are willing to use state force to ensure that outcome in the name of 'protecting the kids'.
So if you want me to object to drag queen story hour on the basis that it is state-subsidized, then fine - but only on that basis, and all other 'story hours', such as 'suburban heterosexual soccer mom story hour' would also be forbidden if it was state-subsidized.
But if you want me to object to drag queen story hour on the basis of 'keeping kids away from perverts' then I'm going to say no, because they're not perverts, and I'm not going to subscribe to a narrative that labels them as such.
It’s more of a “bears in trunks” thing.
Thanks chemleft toe-the-line collectivist, for showing as always, that you are not just a lefty ignoramus, you're fully committed to the cause. Though, you should just be committed.
He’s pedophile adjacent.
Another Groomer Jeffy bullshit strawman. Let’s cut to it. You want no interference in your grooming of children. Especially through government schools, by activist democrats. Since you have a discredited argument that is pedophilic on its face, you have to lie about the facts.
You always lie, and sea lion.
You are making broad and sweeping, but seemingly honest points. Therefore I'd like to engage in civil discussion, if you are willing.
"And they’ve been consistently dismantling the authority and legitimacy of the local and traditional institutions the don’t control for decades."
To which "local and traditional institutions" are you referring? I'm not clear if you are talking about political or cultural institutions. And in what way are they "dismantling" them?
"But, how do you square that with the state subsidizing some of those ideas through professorships at public universities?"
Are you saying you believe that the hiring was done decades ago to promote a particular worldview, which has since taken hold in America, or are you saying that the changes in American culture have led to universities hiring professors who support those chamges? Put simply, do you see it as a past effort to change society or a present recognition of American culture designed to attract applicants?
"But, you had better be ready to studiously ignore the fact that it only really became a thing with the encouragement of the state in public schools and libraries"
In what way has the state encouraged drag queen story hour? By allowing it to happen?
"financed at gunpoint from people who’d never sign on to the project."
For everything that is funded by public money, there is a segment of the population who would "never sign on to" it. That is a pointless and meaningless complaint. You might as well say, "unless all 350 million Americans agee, public money shouldn't be used". It's equally ridiculous.
"But, if Ahmari has the wrong answer, it doesn’t mean that honest libertarians should ignore his question."
I agree. But even if you assume all of his priors (which comprise a minority of opinions), the solution to illiberal actions is more freedom and individual liberty, not an opposing illiberal philosophy. That is the answer.
If society is moving away from conservative cultural beliefs, it has to be considered that it is happening for a valid, logical reason.
Ignoring the possibility that people find cultural conservative ideas unconvincing by claiming a broad, nefarious, and dishonest conspiracy acting against rightthinking people (conservatives) is willful blindness. Using that blindness to justify the illiberal use of government force is compounding the error.
Authoritarianism is awesome! Go Republicans! Rah rah rah!
/if conservatives were honest
Ideas!
“Get in your ghetto, Gamma bottle fetus!”
/if totalitarian shitbags were honest.
"I'm a libertarian!" -sarcdipshit
Crawl back under your rock, you lying, drunken pussy.
"We can forsake a commitment to liberty and launch the political version of the Battle of Verdun, seeking the ruin of our foes, or we can recommit to our shared citizenship and preserve a space for all American voices, even as we compete against those voices in politics and the marketplace of ideas."
Liberty shmiberty. Winning is what matters. Amirite?
Destroy the totalitarians and the authoritarians would be easy, but your feelz gets all moody?
"Its adherents were obviously willing to shoot at people," he claimed. "When they talked about 'revolution,' they meant storming a hundred Bastilles, not changing the minds of men after the fashion of older and more comfortable collectivists."
That was back in the '60s. They're all peaceful protestors now.
It's like she missed the entire summer of love in 2020 and the irony of that bit of stupidity. Either that or she openly endorses the marxists positions and truly sees violence in pursuit of revolution as not violence.
Fiery but mostly.
For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/
Same reason spin on current events.
"The left wants communism and believes any-means-necessary is appropriate policy to attain it, but the right legislating in a couple areas is authoritarian and we should scrutinize it"
You know, at some point, when you keep spending all of your time finding flaws in one opponent in the ring while writing off "ya, sure the other guys is obviously evil, but everyone knows that" and spend all of your energy focusing on his opponent, eventually it starts to look like you have it out for the one guy and you kind of forget (as does your audience, since you never spend time talking about) that the one guy is actually evil
More accurately - you forget that you ain't even in the arena. You're just sitting on the sidelines cheeringjeering for someone else who isn't even paying attention to you.
What is wrong with direct-to-consumer sales?
The thing is, the liberal order DOES have a way to fight back without abandoning its principles. It's called the Rule of Law. When the New Left resorted to violence, the proper response was law enforcement. Break the law, face the consequences. Won't stop it all, just as law enforcement against theft and murder hasn't stopped all theft and murder. But the idea that we have to become the enemy in order to fight the enemy is bullshit.
This is were both sides are falling down in response to the Nihilists. One side wants to appease, and the other wants to stoop to their level, but neither seems to want to follow the strategy of using a justice system to provide justice.
The Freedom of Speech, and of the Press must remain enshrined. They must not be abandoned because we don't like what the Nihilists are saying. Their crime is not their words, their crime is their violent actions. But Democrats see appeasement as a way to get their votes, and Republicans see them as a way to gin up the populist authoritarian vote who demand a Strong Man who will sweep away the rules that maintain a liberal order.
But Democrats see appeasement as a way to get their votes, and Republicans see them as a way to gin up the populist authoritarian vote who demand a Strong Man who will sweep away the rules that maintain a liberal order.
Yeah, at this point it does look like many Republicans would be happy to give dictatorial powers to Trump so he could smite his enemies.
perhaps he might even prosecute his political enemies under The Espionage Act or some such thing. Time will tell.
Ah yes, rule of law. That's working out well for Daniel Penny, isn't it?
And Donald Trump!
The rule of law doesn't mean when you kill someone you don't have to face an investigation. So it's literally working out well for Penny, since he hasn't been thrown in jail for murder without a trial, nor has he been released and declared innocent without an investigation. Because neither of those outcomes is supportable, at this point.
The rule of law is a process. Slow, skeptical, and evidence-based, but better than the alternative.
You’re such a shitweasel democrat shill.
Because I believe in the rule of law? How is that a Democratic belief?
No, you don’t, you and your fellow travelers use the law as a weapon, then skirt it when it becomes inconvenient.
The rule of law requires evidence before charges. Witnesses stated that they were afraid of Neely who reportedly said he wasn't afraid to die while behaving erratically. Penny did not use a "choke hold". The video clearly shows a submission hold with the Adam's apple in the crook of Penny's elbow. Unlike the cop who used a banned choke hold (forearm pressed on the Adam's apple) on Gardner, Penny acted carefully and once Neely was subdued, he immediately put Neely in a recovery position.
There was no rule of law in Penny's case, there was only an effort to eliminate the very idea of defense of oneself and others. If a crazy person comes at you, your only options are to run or submit and hope that he doesn't kill you.
"There was no rule of law in Penny’s case"
If you think that, you are woefully ignorant of what the rule of law entails. "Some people were scared" isn't a justification for lethal force. There are justifications outbthere, but that's why an investigation is necessary.
Just letting him off because "people were scared" and "he says he didn't mean to kill the guy" isn't the rule of law. It is the exact opposite.
For what it's worth, I don't think he will face charges and, if he does, I don't think he will get convicted. I just don't see a jury voting to convict unless something weird like being a Three Percenter or membership in the KKK comes to light.
But that doesn't mean you just take everything at face value when a man gets killed.
Rule of law = rule of lawyers
"This is were both sides are falling down in response to the Nihilists."
Except it isn't "both sides". You are absolutely right that the rule of law is important. But the left has abandoned the rule of law. When they give a pass to people rudely trespassing on private property, but prosecute the people trying to force them off with a weapon; when you declare that race riots are a "public health issue" while condemning people protesting lockdown; when you prosecute a young man for defending himself from assault; when you let rioters open carry and storm drivers, and then prosecute a driver who defends themselves-
When all these things happen, it is clear and obvious that the left has no interest in the rule of law. It is not that I believe the people above were always right- it is that they are very clearly being targeted by the government for reprisal, while people doing similar stuff in the name of leftist causes are given a pass.
>>Is there reason to believe the danger now is greater than it was then?
idk is there a reason to write about the sitting president taking five million dollar bribes when he was O's veep?
Usually such a vastly overstated assessment of the claims of a single person with no objective evidence to support it is treated like unfounded, partisan speculation. Because that's what it is.
Usually ignoring masses of blatant evidence or crimes including public statements made by the criminal traitor is treated like unfounded partisan obfuscation. Because that’s what you’re doing.
Biden is guilty. Case closed.
Let me put it to you this way: if my choices are teachers transitioning my kids in school, or moonbat teachers disappearing into the back of black vans, I'm gonna vote for the black vans. Thank you.
^. this x 100
I'll some some overzealous "protect MUH children" efforts from otherwise genteel churchgoers over the radical bolsheviks driving the left.
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Left-wing totalitarianism and right-wing authoritarianism are not our only options.
They are if the only choice you see is to base everything solely on opposing them. The nanosecond that is done, then you have accepted their agenda – and you are limited solely to checking the other box instead. The more extreme and authoritarian they become, the more you will too.
If you head in your own path toward a goal you elucidate, you may end up being completely irrelevant. Standing on the sidewalk screaming at the clouds to behave. Or you may end up achieving something that really changes the agenda itself. That forces someone else to check the boxes on YOUR agenda items.
the left: We'll take all your money, control your speech, build a giant welfare state for illegal immigrants, and brainwash your kids to be trans.
the right: uh... no. i oppose this
the left: aUtHorITARian rIghT WinGerZ!!!!
Apropos of my post above, here's the link to a longform interview which is very illuminating about how the "left" operates, especially when they're in the business of public communication.
Peter Bogosian interviews Keri Smith. She describes, in detail, how "woke" ideological actors spread their narratives through society through a focused, concentrated effort, and how cultish the entire belief system is.
Keri Smith was deeply woke for 20 years. She describes how she became that way, and then details the kind of things that she did in her professional career to push Woke messaging in every aspect of her professional world. She described herself as a proud "Social Justice Warrior" while she was in the cult.
Long interview, but both fascinating and disturbing at the same time.
And, of course, it’s a 77-minute video.
Apropos of my post above, here’s the link to a longform interview
Edit: One cannot live by 160 character tweets alone.
edit2: I do not post these links in expectation that there will be instant responses to my posts, thus enlivening a real-time debate in the thread in which it was posted, I post these links for group members who are interested in exploring ideas to think about in the days, weeks or years to come. YMMV.
years to come
OK. That made me laugh.
You really should think longer-term in your comments. Asians are known for thinking decades into the future. Native Americans thought about the third generation.
Or so they say.
At first I wasn’t sure why you found that funny, then I realized that if one were to take that literally: A person sits in a chair in his livingroom for years, chin in hands, ruminating on one (1) video. Yes, that would be funny.
But what I meant by that is over the last 10 or more years I have seen a number of videos which I occasionally think back to and… ruminate upon.
I am a history buff, I’ve seen youtube docs on the Byzantine empire, the Holy Roman empire (etc) that were very illuminating and to this day, I think back to the things I learned in those videos. Same with political or philosophical videos. There are talks and interviews I’ve heard from YEARS ago that either made me think more deeply about an issue, or made me rethink entirely a position I had on given topic. I remember those videos years later and… ruminate on them.
Here is the problem, DR(P). Mike doesn't care. He is not here to discuss anything. He is here to undermine any conversation that doesn't ridicule and demean conservatives. He will always come to your posts and insinuate that because you have a video, it is not worth reading and that in fact you are a conspiracy nut. Because all he has is ad hominem attacks.
That's because Mike is a fucking moron.
Do you ever have sources of information based on reading? The printed word is so much more efficient way to learn about and judge the merit of ideas.
Do you ever have sources of information based on reading? The printed word is so much more efficient way to learn about and judge the merit of ideas.
Based on what set of assumptions and metrics? I walk around my house with a wireless set of headphones, work in the yard, drive on road trips and absorb the spoken word at a far greater rate on regularity than I can the written, as the written requires 100% of my physical attention.
So I'm about 35 minutes in and will probably watch in a couple more shifts. What I find interesting so far is that this woman got in on the ground floor 20 some years ago. The references to "prejudice plus power" and "minorities can't be racist" were dominating the culture but the vast majority of people, I think, couldn't reconcile these ideas with the real world they lived in. I know their were a whole lot of minorities that had a lot more power than I did and Cubans were unapologetic about their racism toward black people and vis versus. Back then I considered myself a classical liberal but this crap didn't seem liberal to me and I assumed most people would reject this nonsense. Little did I know it would morph into the insanity being shoved down our throats today.
First off, I'm shocked that you can even absorb ideas or concepts through sound waves, so congratulations. Apparently within the commentariat, only two of us have this mystical power.
B: “minorities can’t be racist”
The first time I came across this concept was the mid 90s. I debated it vociferously, but the concept was then as it is now: Racism requires power dominance in the social structure. It kind of went away after the 90s and the early 2000s, and then has come roaring back, and is now a mainstream concept.
Given how she describes herself, she was NOT by any stretch a normie who just spouted the ideas she heard over thanksgiving dinner. She was, by her own account a committed soldier, specifically working to spread her ideology across numerous platforms. I thought the Wikipedia editing was incredibly telling, and confirms a whole host of things I've heard and read about, but often not backed up by evidence, but more implication and anecdote. But she describes proudly doing exactly what I've heard through said anecdote and inference. She worked with non-profits to slip messages into her late-night comedy writing gigs. She admits she wasn't a historian but was heavily involved in adding details of racism to the Christopher Columbus page- with literally no evidence of it, but just based on things she'd heard 2nd hand. She used the term "on the right side of history" constantly.
Towards the end, she starts talking about her conversion to Christianity, but even then, continuously apologizes for it, causing Bogosian to keep reassuring her that he wants to hear everything she believes and not to self-censor.
" Racism requires power dominance in the social structure. "
That's not accurate. Racism requires only the belief that one's race is one's most salient characteristic, and all else flows from that. What you're describing is 'systemic racism,' as seen in apartheid SA or Jim Crow USA, where a society's laws and customs are structured around race, or skin color, to be more precise.
Too much for your tiny mind.
It is!
Oh, wait, you’re referring to Mike. Never mind then.
Indeed, Mike is a subnormal idiot. Although it makes him eligible for half off at the mind reader’s.
I heard Keri Smith on Triggernometry some years ago. She is definitely a good example of how, if you hold bad ideas, honesty can set you free.
I ran into that Triggernometry video too, but I didn't watch it because I watched the Bogosian video and figured I didn't need to hear the same conversation twice. I didn't realize the Triggernometry video was years old.
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As more of the left embraces Marxist ethics, it means not just that rules and norms no longer matter. It means that the struggle, including violent confrontation is the end goal. Wherever we might be with current social and legal consensus must be overthrown in order to perpetuate the struggle.
America is built on White Supremacy, the constitution was created by White Slave Owners, everything about the American system is corrupt and a racist lie. Therefore your "rule of law" is unjust and illegitimate.
Debate over.
Once that was the style of 3rd grade class president campaigns. Sadly, that is now the style of academic research, college classes, and actual political campaigns. Oh, and journalism, too.
Reason getting appropriate attention
https://twitter.com/TRHLofficial/status/1669501175438114817?t=IEyYw-uGbP4QaqlQVQtzKw&s=19
[Pic]
Except for the Espionage Act. That's gilded.
and of course, shooting back at violent antifa rioters pointing guns at you. straight to jail.
Of course there is a big difference between using the power of government to suppress leftists and defending the Constitution against leftist abuse of government power. The culture war combatants are specific about what they fear from the other side not playing fair and what they think they have to do in response; they are never quite so clear about the difference between defending and initiating coercion. It's way too easy for them to claim an existential threat to "society" justifying extreme measures in response; it's not so easy to defend only against the violations themselves without attacking the violators. We should not let them off the hook! We should insist that culture warriors from both sides be prevented from crossing that line.
Eat a bullet
“Not one Bastille has been toppled in America”
Well, they weren’t called the Bastille, they were called CHAZ, CHOP, CNC, OCCUPY, etc.. So I guess technically the author is correct.
Also, every university.
And the Whitehouse when the "Progress" flag was flown from it
Conservatives cannot accept that they lost the culture war and it wasn't a close fight. It made Dunkirk look like a victory.
Until conservatives admit defeat, they will never be able to figure out why they lost.
They did admit defeat. The general conservative viewpoint, from the standpoint in politics is: Let the left do whatever it wants to your schools, your children, your universities, your corporations, your HR department, your healthcare, as long as the means of production remains in private hands and marginal tax rates remain reasonable.
Peter Hitchens takes this criticism head on: Everything is above-board as long as there are "more markets".
They didn't really admit it since they have never changed their attitudes or arguments. It's like the alcoholic who supposedly admits he's got a problem but then goes on drinking.
Do conservatives really admit defeat? Or is it just a pretense so they can continue spouting "faith, family and patriotism" as the answer to everything?
Well, “Don’t fuck or mutilate our children” is a new one. The real problem is that we didn’t wipe out the Marxists when we had the chance 70 years ago.
Gender identity is complete bullshit. People don't have gender, pronouns have gender. People have sex (in both meanings of the word).
"Well, “Don’t fuck or mutilate our children” is a new one."
Opposing pedophilia and child abuse is a bipartisan (indeed almost universal) belief. The only thing that has changed is that conservatives have chosen to claim things that aren't pedophilia or child abuse (and that people who aren't pedophiles or child abusers) suddenly are.
One of your fellow travelers in the Minnesota legislature attempted to reclassify pedophilia from a mental disorder to a sexual orientation through state law. After a massive backlash lead by republicans, it was withdrawn.
Democrat academics in increasing numbers have been proposing this for years. The term ‘minor attracted persons’ also originates from democrat academics and psychologists.
So don’t give me this bipartisan shit. And definitely don’t try this deflection shit by claiming conservatives are redefining anything. That’s you people. Democrats are fast becoming the party of pedophilia and child mutilation. Just like how you’re the party of institutionalized infanticide.
I don't think they did. They floundered around for a while mouthing off until, very recently, they started fighting back with tactics borrowed from the victorious progressive socialist playbook.
Victor Davis Hanson also alludes to this when he talks about his disdain for Bush Republicans. When he'd talk to them about the border crisis, their answer was, "Don't worry about the borders, let the market adjudicate the borders, when the price of labor drops below $1 an hour, they'll stop coming!"
Conservatives lost the culture war decades ago.
"Conservatives lost the culture war decades ago."
That's a rather narrow interpretation. Decades ago conservatives won the cold war, the Soviet Union crumbled and embraced the capitalist road, as did China. It seems to have come at a great cost though with America fragmenting, balkanizing before our eyes, and lacking the competence to address public health issues, housing the poor and destitute, sky rocketing rates of imprisonment, management of the border, corrupt climate policy, holding credible elections, disappearing middle class and so on. We're clearly losing the thread here.
It's our defeat on these issues that warrants attention. School children learning about slavery or gays marrying each other? Cheese and rice, man! Get your priorities in order.
The conservatives did not win the cold war, the Russians lost it. There's a big difference. The economic impotence of communism took down the USSR which was living on borrowed time (and western support when their crops failed).
The first thing that Bush I did was claim the "peace dividend" and expanded social programs. He never supported a free market. Remember he called it "voodoo economics". Clinton further expanded our socialist state education system. Bush II expanded the state into medical care with prescription drugs for seniors and further took over state education. Obama tried to produce a medical cartel to control all medicine in the US.
All of these presidents agreed that our greatest duty is to "take care of the most vulnerable amongst us" or in other words "to each according to their needs".
Ideologically, the communists pitched a shutout.
"The conservatives did not win the cold war, the Russians lost it."
Sounds like Russian conservatives won it.
"The first thing that Bush I did was claim the “peace dividend” and expanded social programs."
The massive expansion of the state's social programs dates back to the heart of the cold war under Johnson and Nixon. The expansion was part of the guns and butter effort of Vietnam. It was probably somewhat successful, too, helped along with the murdering the opposition's leadership, as well.
"Ideologically, the communists pitched a shutout."
Communist victory would have been socialized health insurance as in Canada or the UK. Both countries have their problems but neither stacks up to those faced by the US, where health insurance remains in private hands for the most part.
Between the churches preaching that the only justification for wealth is service to the poor, the college Marxists screaming about the rich exploiting the workers and every politician, conservative or progressive, telling you that you need a cause greater than yourself, where was there any defense of the individual's right to pursue happiness?
Conservatives keep scoring goals for the other side because fundamentally, they abhor freedom as much as the commies.
"where was there any defense of the individual’s right to pursue happiness? "
Check out Frank Zappa's music. George Carlin's comedy. William Burroughs' books.
"Remember he called it “voodoo economics”."
That was what he called supply-side economics, not the free market. And he wasn't wrong. Supply-side economics is as destructive to fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets as Democratic tax-and-spend insanity.
"Clinton further expanded our socialist state education system."
You'll have to explain that one. I don't recall anything specific that Clinton did vis-a-vis state education systems.
"Bush II ... further took over state education."
I assume this is about No Child Left Behind? What a terrible law.
"Obama tried to produce a medical cartel to control all medicine in the US."
I would push back against calling Obamacare a medical cartel. The insurers are all private companies, voluntarily participating. There are things to complain about in the ACA, but I don't think claiming it created a government-run cartel is one of them.
I think there are much better ways to address the broken health care system in America. The most effective would be to remove the incentives propping up the employer health care system. Individual policies that couldn't be threatened by losing or changing jobs would go a long way to improving the system. I get that Obamacare wanted to create such a system through legislation, but it didn't work and the incentives for companies to offer employer-based systems were never removed, dooming it to failure.
What good does the right embracing George Washington do when the left embraces Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Chavez and Ortega? George Washington only had to deal with a crazy dictator an ocean away, that is quite different than dealing with the corrupt enemy here and running our own government that Washington was instrumental in creating, but they say was the worst founding of any nation on the face of the Earth. How do you think old George would feel about that?
You must be young to try to compare today to the Vietnam era. Biden is hardly Johnson, and the Democrats are hardly the Party of Kennedy, The media was not the sock puppet of the Democratic party, but willing to expose them the same as to expose the Republicans.
At that time there were liberal and conservative wings in both parties, Republican represented business, Democrats labor. Today both parties are either totally conservative or totally liberal. The liberal media is total propaganda. The Republicans represent the grass roots working class and the Democrat the Billionaires, big business and big tech, while denying that as they work to censor anyone who tells the truth.
So much has changed, including Reason that went from libertarian to in the bag for the liberals. Constant hate and criticisms of the right with few, mild and milk-toast criticism of the left. A waste of cyber space.
Um, forgive me if I am confused, but didn't George Washington straight up use military force to get his political outcome?
What good does the right embracing George Washington do when the left embraces Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Chavez and Ortega?
Who on the left actually "embraces" those people? And I don't want to see vague and unfalsifiable assertions about their ideology being incorporated into their dogma, nor do I want to see buzzwords like "cultural marxism" that mean whatever you want them to mean. Show me politicians that quote directly from them, speak about them, by name, in positive terms, or other examples specific enough to be checked against facts.
The main point of this article, as I understand it, is how it is a false narrative to paint the opposition as being so evil that it justifies authoritarian action to stop them.
Today both parties are either totally conservative or totally liberal.
How did that happen, do you think? Perhaps it was when conservatives in the Republican Party started to see an opportunity to use "law and order" to pull in the social conservatives threatened by the young people that wanted equality for people of all races and genders. The southern politicians (of both parties) couldn't hold the line against both Democrats and Republicans in the rest of the country that wanted the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And it wasn't just Nixon and the "southern strategy" that saw Republicans starting to court social conservatives. Reagan won election as governor in California at the same time campaigning against lefty campus radicals. Then some evangelicals saw the opportunity to obtain political influence and the Moral Majority and the conservative Christian alliance with the Republican Party solidified that trend.
The Republicans represent the grass roots working class and the Democrat the Billionaires, big business and big tech...
It is unfortunate that there are Republican voters that actually believe this. Republican politicians appeal to grass roots working class voters almost entirely on culture war issues. On economic issues, they pay lip service to how low taxes and less regulation will cause wealth to trickle down to the working class, but they really are acting in favor of the wealthy and corporations. Some different billionaires and big businesses support Republicans than support Democrats, but to deny that Republicans support big business and do the bidding of wealthy donors and corporations behind the scenes is laughable.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/27/editorial-democrats-who-praised-castro-regime-lack/
https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/florida-democrats-fuming-over-bernie-sanders-praise-of-fidel-castro/
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-vp-hopeful-karen-bass-slammed-over-past-praise-for-fidel-castro-report
https://reason.com/2019/05/20/bernie-sanders-has-a-strange-affinity-for-strongman-daniel-ortega-hes-not-the-only-democrat-who-does/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/democrats-split-in-responses-to-venezuela-crisis/
https://www.cfr.org/blog/democratic-socialists-america-embraces-maduro-dictatorship
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/andres-oppenheimer/article225431885.html
I think you made your point.
It isn't necessary to find quotes from Marx to indict leftist politicians when anyone can see the ideas that they share with communist dictators. In the 1930's they were called "fellow travelers" since they shared the intellectual road with communists. Although they know the road leads to hell, they rarely take an off ramp. They think they will rule in hell rather than serve in heaven. Wait til they find out what it's like to serve in hell.
"I think you made your point. "
Not really. Talk is cheap. Action, words, speak louder than. AOC talks a lot of socialism, but when it comes to what counts, she lends her support to the president, a notoriously corrupt crony capitalist. She's a Zionist, a Ukraine warmonger, a carbon plan doomed to fail. Any other country but the US would have her on the right, or center at best. The notion that such marginal figures as Sanders or AOC are the acme of American socialism only goes to demonstrate the foolishness of the reactionary fears.
The only area where socialism in America comes near to surpassing international norms is its record on incarceration. With 5% of the world's population and 20% of the world's prison population, it is outsocialisting even the Soviet Union in the heyday of the gulag.
"Any other country but the US would have her on the right, or center at best."
As if there were an objective external political scale. Your tribe can't even define its own members.
"As if there were an objective external political scale. "
It's subjective. Just like the attempt to portray AOC as a socialist who will lead the country down the road to hell.
"Your tribe can’t even define its own members."
Your tribe is afraid of phantoms.
"Your tribe is afraid of phantoms."
What is my tribe, and of what phantoms am I afraid?
"What is my tribe, and of what phantoms am I afraid?"
Think about it. It's subjective. You shouldn't need me to answer.
Defend your accusations.
"None of that counts!"
Well the writer shouldn't have cited George in this context, perhaps. However it IS possible to DEFEND the Constitution against attack by the progressive socialists without attacking the progressive socialists by unconstitutional abuse of Constitutional authority.
^concern troll
George Washington shot enemies, so there's a start
Boom.
Fox News, Waving the Free Speech Banner, Launches a Flagrant Censorship Campaign Against Tucker
What people are discovering about Fox News is, it's not some hotbed of "conservative", counterculture, anti-Biden broadcasting.
Fox News exists at the pleasure of the Neo-con establishment as a kind of token proof that "opposition" media is allowed to exist... as long as that 'opposition' voice doesn't drift too far from the DNC/Neocon narrative. Once it drifts outside that bubble, it doesn't matter if you're the #1 host in the country, you will be fired. And not only will that host be "fired", he will not be allowed to speak on any media platform, including personal videos posted on Twitter-- even if no competing organization or corporation has entered into any contract where money has changed hands. If Tucker appears on a video on the internet, for purely personal reasons, Fox will go after him... And to understand this, look at the Board of Fox News.
They proved this beyond doubt throughout 2020 and early 2021
FNC is destroying itself. Firing Tucker was stupid form a business perspective. And they’re doubling down on stupid. Tucker has the juice to go toe to toe with them in court, and the battle hurts them, while stoking support and attention for Tucker.
I could run that company Bette Ethan anyone in charge currently. Which isn’t saying much.
Glenn's money shot in this clip is he postulates that these corporations are NOT acting purely in the interests of their bottom lines. Because if they were, they never would have fired Carlson, their #1 money maker in their lineup. This is NOT just a bunch of libertarian cowboys, selling you widgets in hopes of fattening their wallets, this is a purely ideological enterprise that happens to make a news broadcast.
My God, the myopia with this dumb girl….
What planet is this bitch from?
Other than the Supreme Court (relatively speaking) this is nuts.
A lesson
https://twitter.com/Figensport/status/1669332680545116161?t=DVkvKSzFeGjnFv9dk0aubQ&s=19
Risk management and it works
[Video]
https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1669506088532598784?t=1qdxueQ5eIPApI4WVfF3ZQ&s=19
Article 1, Section 5, clause 2 of the US Constitution:
Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member
RINO Cowards: “Giving Adam Schiff a fine is uNcOnStItUtIoNaL”
They've already shed most of their legitimacy. We have been in the "what are you gonna do about it" phase of governance since the 2020 election.
Authoritarianism is left of Bernie Saunders.
Sure, one side has the bureaucracy, the city governments, the schools, the universities, the news media, and increasingly, the corporate boardroom, but it's important to keep a close watch out for BOTH SIDES!
768
Very popular leftist meme
https://twitter.com/CovfefeAnon/status/1669539225375592448?t=mT_xkCXPbxPFhhZBwOX1UQ&s=19
Even they hate the world they've built and they have to constantly tell us that the past was worse in every way.
Do you think a healthy regime has to indulge in this type of propaganda?
[Pic]
More leftard BS from Reason.
WHO.......... WHO might I ask is about BIG Gov-Gun usage again???
Which party? The entire F'En world has closed the book that the Democrats are the Gov-Gun "Go-to" tool about everything and then there's the ignorant denial of leftard fanboy writers at Reason. Who just keep pitching delusional ideas that somehow the Anti-Gov-Gun usage party is really the BIG Gov-Gun party...
Leftard projection 101.
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They have both gone off the deep end.
Wow. So there is no moderate middle? There is only the most extreme absolutism of each fringe and everyone is required to pick a side?
Live and let live is dead, in your dystopian view? The only valid belief is coercive government force?
There's also no voting them out of power...
Deep end? They left the deep end a while ago. I think they've dived into Challenger Deep.
It's not so much us, as it is the Marxists. They seem to believe there is no middle ground and no compromise to be found. Maybe that's because Marxism isn't so much an ideology as it is a religion.
See MR's thread above.
“ACalifornia bill, AB 957, would require family courts to interpret a child’s “health, safety, and welfare” to “include a parent’s affirmation of the child’s gender identity” for the purpose of custody disputes."
That's pretty totalitarian. There is nothing "live and let live" about that. When laws like this are being passed in state legislatures, the moderate middle is no longer able to remain moderate.
Fine, I point a gun at you and demand that you give me $10,000 or I end your life.
What is the 'moderate middle' in that situation? Are you going to try to only give me $5k and maybe I'll only shoot you in the foot?
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Double-good this.
"A direction they find distasteful or grooming and Marxist social theories?"
The former. The latter is delusional and fearmongering.
There is no evidence that any group cultural conservatives accuse of "grooming" are more likely to be sexual predators, but they don't let silly things like favts and the horror of their baseless accusations stop them.
'Marxist social theories" have never gained a large hold on American culture, and isn't going to any time soon. It's a sad bit of polemic that shows that cultural.conservatosm can't fight on the merits of their beliefs, they just turn boogyman phrases into strawmen and pummel the shit out of them in a vain effort to justify their authoritarian preferences.
You don't like socialism. Nor do I. But we only get to make those decisions for ourselves because you can't justify using the power of the state to force people to live by your cultural and economic ideals.
The way to fight Marxism/socialism/communism is to point out how badly they fail compared to capitalism. It's easy for people to see and feel the power of the free market to deliver broad-based benefits to our citizens. People aren't stupid. They hear someone say, "Socialism has never worked because it's never really been tried" and they roll tbeir eyes at it. Same goes for people who claim the US doesn't have a free market. It's idiocy and everyone except the lunatic fringes know it.
The way to keep conservative cultural values is to convince people that they are better values. The reason cultural conservatives have to use authoritarian means to impose their values is because most people have found them insufficient and unconvincing.
Trying to sell traditional marriage to a single spouse (heterosexual only, thank you very much) as a vastly superior model for America is going fail since most people have experienced something different (often very different) and still feel their life is good. The reason Roe had (and still has) such support is that it makes sense. Most people think "life begins at conception" is too far and abortion until live birth is, as well. Viability makes sense and 50 years of heavily-funded influence campaigns haven't changed any minds. People are generally good (or moral, if you prefer) and the majority don't find pro-life arguments compelling.
I believe that is the reason for the right's turn towards authoritarianism. They have failed to convince people and refuse to accept that others should be allowed to make their own decisions for themselves.
"Because if the groomers and CRT crowd would knock the shit off, nobody would need to pass laws to prevent it."
You make my point for me. Sexual predators are despicable and teachers aren't more lijely ghan anyone else to be one, but branding millions of innocent teachers with that horrific accusation is just fine as long ss you can leverage it into political power. And CRT? Most people who want to "stop" CRT are trying to stop things that aren't even remotely connected to it.
Classical liberalism is the solution. If you let other live their lives and you live yours, things work out well. It's when force is used that things get ugly.
You're comparing an attack on the very foundations of our democracy to a random even in Portland?
"Meanwhile, people who milled around inside the Capitol are getting longer sentences."
Or are still in jail waiting to be sentenced, years later.
"Meanwhile, people who milled around inside the Capitol are getting longer sentences."
You got a specific case, Chuck? Or are you pretending that the people who "milled around inside the Capitol" and Stuart Rhodes are the same because ... reasons?
My guess is you don't have a case where someone just walking around got 20 months.
"It’s not so much us, as it is the Marxists."
And there are almost no Marxists in America, if you use the label accurately. Hence my observation that the radical fringes are the only ones you recognize. No one, in your world, is actually moderate or nuanced. Either you're with us or against us, in your world.
"That’s pretty totalitarian. There is nothing “live and let live” about that."
I agree.
Specious analogies aren't convincing.
"You are the asshole presenting a false dichotomy."
Not really. You and your ilk aren't conservatives, you're the Marxists of the right. Conservatives believe in individual liberty. You don't.
If you are pushing CRT or any of the flavors of Queer theory, you are a neo-marxist. There is no need to differentiate.
The BLM founders understood this- the critical theory language permeated the BLM manifesto, and they explicitly claimed to be marxist.
Your argument that marxists don't exist is as silly as all the people claiming gender-affirming therapy was a myth, right up until they got state legislators to start mandating it.
Yet your wild strawmen are supposed to be convincing? Really?
I thought no marxists exist, Nelson. Isn't that what you said?
It is interesting that you have no problem using the term "marxist" as shorthand for radical people on the right, but when others do it to describe ACTUAL militant, revolutionary leftist radicals, you suddenly get very technical and semantic.
Why, it's almost as if you are applying a double standard. Don't you think?
"NO YOU!"
Great stuff, very compelling.
He’s a cartoon. Ignore him
"I thought no marxists exist, Nelson. Isn’t that what you said?"
No, it isn't. Are you illiterate, or just unwilling to accept things you don't like?
"It is interesting that you have no problem using the term “marxist” as shorthand for radical people on the right, but when others do it to describe ACTUAL militant, revolutionary leftist radicals, you suddenly get very technical and semantic."
What are you talking about? Marxism is an oppositional ideology to capitalism. Antifa is the militia-like movement on the left, with some groups being militant, revolutionary, leftist radicals. They aren't even close to the same thing.
"Why, it’s almost as if you are applying a double standard. Don’t you think?"
No, I'm just not lumping all left-fringe groups together into some sort of gestalt of cultural, economic, political, and militant groups. You are.
Thank God democracy survived. Oh wait...
Of course. Other than access to Joe Biden for favors, Hunter has nothing going for him, other than maybe knowing where to score drugs. He has zero energy sector experience, no engineering or science background, etc..
The whole Biden corruption case is basically a two minute Colombo episode.
"How is he placed on the board of Burisma except as a bribe?"
How do you not understand how corporate boards work? Do you really think they are awarded for knowledge or competence?
They are given for what the person (or their name) can do for the company. Burisma thought that having a Biden on their board would be beneficial to the company. Exactly why every company decides their boards. It's business, nothing more.
You don't believe me? Look at the boards for the S&P 500 or the Dow 30.
"The only time you see assholes like Hunter on a board is nepotism or favors."
You have no idea what you're talking about. Check out the boards of the stocks you hold. Given your post, you'll be shocked at who's there.
He may be too morbidly obese to make it out of his mother’s basement. She probably had a feeding trough put in and out plastic over an area with a drain so he can be sprayed down a few times a week.
Yes, Marxism is real. Yes, there are Marxists. No, they aren't everywhere and no, they don't have any power.
We are a capitalist country. It's not even a question, Joe McCarthy.
Nelson is not a person at all, it's a malignant tumor
Struggle for power? Check.
Aggrieved classes seeking to throw off oppressors? Check.
Utopian political vision with authoritarian moral elite? Check.
Willing to commit violence in the name of revolution? Check.
It isn't silly, it's sinister lying
"If you are pushing CRT or any of the flavors of Queer theory, you are a neo-marxist. There is no need to differentiate"
You make my point fir me. If you expand the definition of "Marxist", especially using a definition of CRT that's so vague it's meaningless, you can fit most of America under that umbrella.
"The BLM founders understood this- the critical theory language permeated the BLM manifesto, and they explicitly claimed to be marxist."
BLM isn't a hierarchical organization with centralized leadership. It certainly doesn't have a single "manufesto" that all BLM chapters ascribe to. Do you even understand the organizational structure of BLM? Because your post makes it seem like you are clueless.
"Your argument that marxists don’t exist"
I never said that. In fact, I specifically said that they do exist. But there aren't many of them and they have no power. America is a capitalust country and is in no danger of ever being anything different.
"claiming gender-affirming therapy was a myth"
No serioys person has ever claimed it doesn't exist. Puberty blockers have been around for decades. Social transitioning happens all the time. Hormone treatments have been used for longer than ouberty blockers. It's only the anti-trans folks who strawman up those who think it's the concern of the trans person, their family, their doctors, and no one else.
"right up until they got state legislators to start mandating it"
If you're referring to the bill in California, it doesn't mandate any specific treatment. Unless you're referring to something else?.
He's seriously retarded...
You make my point for me. Antifa is basically the militia movement of the left, with most groups posturing and largely harmless with a few groups being the leftist versions of the Oathkeepers, Proud Boys, or Three Percenters. BLM is a disjointed collection of allied groups without a central organization or philosophy beyond opposing police violence. Neither have any political power. They're paper tigers, useful for propaganda and little else.
*tumor
Which strawman is that, Farmer Joe?
Sure burned a hell of a lot of buildings for posturing. I'm sure all the people they attacked will be glad to know they are largely harmless. Remind me again of rich & varied history of burning and assault done by e.g. Oathkeepers? Remember when they annexed part of Seattle? No, that wasn't them?
The teachers union doesn't have any power? They just declared was on capitalism in Colorado.
My civility level matches that of the person who I'm replying to. You usually come on with insults and baseless accusations, so I respond in kind. It's the most basic strategy for the Prisoner's Dilemma. Do what the other person did the last move.
Paleocons usually lead with insults and rage. You get what you give, Chuckie-boy.
"Teaching kindergarteners about sex and CRT "
That is not happening amywhere in the US. Sexual topics aren't in kindergarten curricula. CRT isn't in any K-12 curricula. At this point it's not even gaslighting by cultural conservatives. It's straight-up lying about what is being taught.
"How is a Republican pushing back on this nonsense"
When you push back against something that isn't real, you aren't being strong. You're being duplicitous.
And of what value did the Biden name to a Ukrainian/Cyprusian energy company a decade ago? The Biden’s are not involved in the energy industry, or any other private enterprise whatsoever. So outside of using Hunter to launder money as a proxy, in exchange for selling daddy’s office of VP, what value did Hunter have for them?