The Supreme Court Is Not in a 'War on Science'
The Supreme Court is agnostic on questions of science, but clear and resolute on questions of law.

Last fall, Robert Redford (yes, that Robert Redford) took to the pages of USA Today to offer a dire warning of the dystopian future awaiting us if the Supreme Court reined in the Clean Water Act in Sackett v. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a case argued by our firm, the Pacific Legal Foundation. The Supreme Court has unanimously rebuked the EPA for its overreach and environmentalists are reprising tired talking points—like Redford's—about the Court's supposed war on science.
Those arguments miss one very important fact: None of the Court's decisions that its critics so hate have anything to do with science. The Supreme Court has one job and one job only: to interpret and apply the laws passed by Congress and signed by the president. That's it.
Consider last year's West Virginia v. EPA. The Court held that Congress never gave the EPA the authority to adopt its Clean Power Plan and that any "decision of such magnitude and consequence rests with Congress itself, or an agency acting pursuant to a clear delegation from that representative body."
Or consider the Court's ruling in National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) v. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) on constitutional challenges to OSHA's nationwide employer COVID-19 vaccine mandate. The justices ruled that OSHA did not have the authority to create a vaccine mandate because the Occupational Safety and Health Act didn't give OSHA the power to set health and safety standards except those that relate to occupational hazards that are specific to the workplace. COVID-19 was a risk found in some workplaces, but it wasn't a risk specific to the workplace—it was everywhere.
Which brings us to Sackett v. EPA, the cause of so much agita for Redford and his friends. Last week, the Court decided that the Clean Water Act applies to actual bodies of water—not any ground that is occasionally damp.
When Chantell and Michael Sackett bought land in Idaho to build their dream home, they had no idea they would start a 15-year legal battle that would take two trips to the nation's highest court to settle. The EPA claimed their property was a federally protected wetland and ordered them to stop construction and return the land to its original form or face fines upward of $40,000 per day.
One problem: The Clean Water Act only applies to "navigable waters" and—as the Supreme Court ruled last week—only wetlands that share a continuous surface water connection with them.
In each of these cases, the central question was whether Congress gave the EPA or OSHA the power they were claiming, and, in each case, the Supreme Court said no.
In response to these cases, the apocalypse brigade brayed about the Court's disregard for science. In West Virginia v. EPA, they insisted that the science was settled, and the EPA's Clean Power Plan was critical to address climate change. In NFIB v. OSHA, they contended that the science demanded a vaccine mandate to protect workers. And in Sackett v. EPA, they protested that science required the EPA to regulate every sometimes-soggy patch of land from coast to coast or else fish will grow two heads and the Cuyahoga River will catch back on fire.
Of course, these may be reasonable arguments to make to policy makers—if we set aside nagging questions about just how settled the science really is. And those policy makers can, and should, consider arguments based on scientific expertise. But Supreme Court justices aren't policy makers.
If the law, properly interpreted, is out of step with science, it is not for the Court to ignore a statute's plain meaning, but for Congress—the legislative branch and the people's representatives—to fix the problem and make new laws that are grounded in science.
The Supreme Court should be agnostic on questions of science but clear and resolute on questions of law. After all, that's the Court's job.
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"Science" is cribbing a 15-year-old girl's science fair project as pandemic response policy!
I liked the 9 year old girl whose project became the backbone of the move to ban plastic straws.
ahem...9-year-old boy named Milo Cress
Ostensibly, the purpose of SCOTUS is justice.
Justice exists necessarily in an environment of the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Truth is reality.
Correctly applied logic and science are necessary to determine reality.
SCOTUS cannot achieve its purpose without recognizing understanding and accepting science.
Just saying.
SCOTUS isn’t corrupt because it won’t rule that the holocaust didn’t happen.
Sorry about that.
How old is wonder if Misek is an out and proud nazi, or hides all of his maxi beliefs in person.
And perhaps his pathological hatred of Jews has its roots in personal pettiness and envy?
He's a keyboard commando who found us when stormfront was shut down.
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“Won’t rule” Hahaha
The holocaust is a lie which I’ve refuted with the truth of correctly applied logic and science. Nobody ever has or ever will refute the truth I’ve shared.
Criminalizing lying ensures that truth is the only defence.
Today the truth that refutes the holocaust is a crime to share in every nation where it allegedly occurred.
Truth can’t be both a defence and a crime. I think it should be a defence.
In your mind, if God himself told you you are wrong, that wouldn't refute your claims. You have even LESS evidence for your claims about the Holocaust than I have POSTED that you are either a liar, an ignorant fool, or both.
God? Hahaha
Yes, even God would need to refute what I said with correctly applied logic and science.
Is that what you’re waiting for? Don’t hold your breath.
He's an avowed Nazi who is just smart enough to understand how bad the whole Final Solution thing makes Nazis look (even though he agrees with it). So, he goes out of his way (and into the land of absurdity) to try and claim otherwise. Instead of just accepting that Nazis are terrible and that he shouldn't be one, he'd rather run as much bullshit cover as he can.
Its obvious why you, a lying waste of skin who can’t prove your claims or even refute what you deny, don’t want lying criminalized.
Whatever you need to tell yourself you disgusting Nazi fuck.
The following points refute key elements of the holocaust with logic and science. This is because all stories creating the holocaust narrative defy logic and science.
There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. That means that there is no physical evidence. Any activity that demonstrates and shares evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.
The fact that all evidence that refutes the holocaust is criminal in every nation where it allegedly occurred is relevant if you are accepting any evidence at all from those nations.
Refusing to consider evidence is the definition of bias and any conclusion that bias is irrelevant only demonstrates bigotry and a disregard for justice.
The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That couldn’t have happened as claimed. The story is bullshit.
Jews have published books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging piles of gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens.
But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it years later.
Anyone who ever saw the naked body of somebody who died from cyanide asphyxiation would NEVER forget the red skin colour. The bodies necessary reaction to being unable to process oxygen.
Not a single surviving fuckwitness ever mentioned it.
Also, no dark cherry red skin discolouration was visible in any supposed photographs of bodies of so-called victims of the holocaust.
The fact is that you can’t explain it and your bigotry prevents you from recognizing the ONLY logical conclusion.
Not a single fuckwitness testimony or alleged photograph of bodies was of anyone who died from cyanide exposure.
So much for the “evidence” of a holocaust.
And so it goes with every bullshit story told by paid and coerced lying fuckwitnesses. The facts prove otherwise.
Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines? It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.
Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support the holocaust narrative of which there was also no mention of.
Here are some actual enigma decrypts from Bletchley park in 1942 when deaths were at their highest.
Covering the period 3rd Aug. 1942 – 25th Sept. 1942
A further examination is made of Concentration Camp figures; deaths from typhus have reached a very high figure in AUSCHWITZ.
A suspected case of typhus is reported from AUSCHWITZ (223b/42). It is probable that on the 6th August Nachschubkdtr. Russland Mitte requests typhus vaccine for 50 men and spottenfever serum for 20
For the first time returns are given for deaths of prisoners (223b/14,24,43,50): the figures for August are: NIEDERHAGEN 21, AUSCHWITZ 6829 (or 6889) men, 1525 women;.
Firstly the number of dead for the month are nowhere near what is necessary to support the holocaust narrative.
Secondly, notable is the concern over typhus deaths and the requests for medical supplies to treat.
Thirdly, are you willing and eager to perform the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their top secret enigma machines?
That would require you to really believe that Germany INTENTIONALLY lost the war to cover up the holocaust while ostensibly leaving lying fuckwitnesses alive in the prison camps as the Germans retreated.
Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.
The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.
The story is told by one Jewish survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.
She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad. The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.
They were stripped naked to leave no evidence. Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.
Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence. Oops, rookie move. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them on gravestones and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.
There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.
There are military aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.
Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school.
The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers.
The Red Cross was founded in 1863 with the purpose of protecting the interests of victims of conflicts.
The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps. It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.
The holocaust fairytale requires us to believe that they were so unaware of what might be happening that they completely missed 95% of the victims in prison camps.
AND that they had not so much as an inkling that a holocaust was going on right under their noses even though allied media propaganda was reporting it. Because there is no evidence of any Red Cross document suggesting they did.
Are you performing those feeble mental gymnastics? How gullible are you?
Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save lives by preventing deadly typhus. The system used for years before and during the war throughout Europe employed heating to release cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle.
Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings with clothing racks still exist in Prison camps. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred. In fact, the story has changed to that they just threw the heat activated pellets onto the cold drainless floors in rooms full of people.
Such an inefficient method would have taken too long to kill the required number of Jews. The pellets couldn’t be spread evenly in rooms full of people. The cold drainless floors would have delayed the release of cyanide from the pellets that people would have swept away from themselves. Any dead would have released all their bodily fluids and their bodies covering the pellets. Vomit would have been added to the floor prior to entering such a room.
According to the testimony of the so called survivor, the timing entering the chambers immediately, the details shirtless survivor, piles of bodies with unvented cyanide gas pockets in every space, death from repeated exposure as per testimony would have been necessary, not just possible.
According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.
Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel. Diesel exhaust is relatively safe. Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours. Far too long to support the narrative.
If Germans had used gasoline engines, death would have been in a few minutes. But in the holocaust narrative for treblinka diesel was used even though Germany had plenty of gasoline for their tanks. Nuremberg still recorded that they were “steam chambers”.
Somebody is lying. They weren’t both steam chambers and diesel gas chambers.Which stupid lie is more believable? Does it even matter to you?
The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russia because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany to drive Germany to war.
There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the “gassing Jews“ propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.
Head of British Psychological Warfare Executive (Propaganda), Victor Cavendish-Bentick in a handwritten note, wrote on Aug 27th, 1943,
“We have had a good run for our money with this gas chamber story we have been putting about, but don’t we run the risk eventually we are going to be found out and when we are found out the collapse of that lie is going to bring the whole of our psychological warfare down with it? So isn’t it rather time now to let it drift off by itself and concentrate on other lines that we are running.”
Public Record Office Document F0371/34551 revealed by Stephen Mitford Goodson, ‘Inside the South African Reserve Bank’.
Jews had been publicly claiming a holocaust of 6 million Jews in various nations no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945. Only to coerce sympathy to raise money. Like the wastes of skin who fake cancer on go fund me pages.
What’s the probability after being proven lying about 6 million Jewish deaths by holocaust over 166 times that the 167th claim is true? Better to buy a lottery ticket. Though the bullshiit narrative has been like a lottery bonanza for Jews.
The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.
These Jewish leaders are admitting it. Are they lying?
They are properly referenced quotes from Jewish leaders demonstrating that they had intended to create and force Germany into WW2.
That kind of evil is absolutely relevant when considering the character required to lie to the world about a holocaust for the 167 th time.
“We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”. David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.
“The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”
Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.
The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.
The above is conclusive evidence that morons have access to electrons.
The stated purpose of the Supreme Court IS NOT justice. It is the LAW. As the author correctly stated, science is something for CONGRESS to consider when making law. Even if the law SHOULD be changed, that is outside the authority of the court. If you take the position ANY branch of government should act outside the authority granted to it by the Constitution because doing so is the right thing to do, the logical conclusion of your position is you have ZERO rights when the governement decides ignoring your "rights" is the right thing to do.
When the law contradicts the justice of the constitution the supremacy of justice, aka the constitution wins.
This,
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
You are consistent, you don’t know what you’re talking about, but you’re consistent.
SCOTUS is supposed to act as an arbiter of law, not science. Their place is to decide whether laws are consistent with the Constitution and whether policies are consistent with those laws. If a law clearly violates the Constitution then their duty is to strike it down. Whether or not the law has a worthy purpose or even if it is likely to achieve its stated purpose is irrelevant.
Then again, what kind of reasoning ( or lack thereof) should I expect from a habitual liar who claims to want to criminalize lying?
And they use science and logic to scrutinize those laws.
All that to prove you don’t understand the role of the Supreme Court? And, that you shouldn’t be a Philosophy major.
SCOTUS does not look at the facts of a case, all of that is over and done. It is concerned with the application of existing law and whether it was applied correctly.
The outcome of a decision maybe considered “justice” by one of the parties, that is not the goal of SCOTUS.
Your attempt at inserting your humanism as their mission is one of the causes of our current discord.
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If The Science! (tm) crowd had any shame, they would disappear into the woodwork for at least a couple years, in hopes that people forget just how wrong they were during pandemic. And yet, despite being consistently wrong on their predictions of how much the world would warm; despite being consistently wrong about flattening the curve; despite their errors in predicting masks would stop the spread; despite their misguided insistence that a shot- no a shot and a booster- no a shot and boosters every 3 months- would stop the spread...I mean stop variants...I mean um...what? Despite all that, those same people are out there consistently fretting that the fools who don't foolishly believe them THIS TIME must have declared a war on science. Who needs to declare war on your science when you can't help but shoot yourself in the foot daily?
I also don't get what the big deal is. If the SCOTUS really is wrong on "science", Democrats can simply work and try and pass a bill giving the EPA the power they seem anxious to give to the executive branch.
Courts do not seem interested in stopping that nonsense.
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No where in the Constitution is there an enumerated charge to the federal government to regulate water or the environment. ALL the environmental laws from the 1970s are on shaky ground. As a nod to this problem, EPA is limited to standard setting, reviewing and oversight of STATE enforcement plans, and enforcement on Federal lands and on Navitble waters on rivers shared by several states -- under the umbrella of interstate commerce. All other enforcement is delegated to the states.
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I find it quite disturbing that reason seems to think SCOTUS is only for, "The Supreme Court has one job and one job only: to interpret and apply the laws passed by Congress and signed by the president. That's it."
WRONG... It's BIGGEST job is to enforce the US Constitution. Something it has forgotten to do for over a century now.
It wasn't so much that they were wrong, as that they were lying intentionally to excuse totalitarian measures. For that, they all belong in Hague trials - followed by the gallows once they are all convicted.
Because you live in a world where shame, embarrassment, self awareness, and self respect are still a thing.
Awwww. Those things are so quaint.
How would you know?
Apparently you failed to notice the sarcasm from a user calling himself/herself sarcasmic.
Science! Meh. It’s white supremacist. And facts – they’re raciss. Remember, in November of 2020 “we chose truth over facts!”
And that brings us to the Supreme Court wherein the ultimate truth-of-the-day resides. Science is “flexible” in that it changes over time, and honestly nowadays desired “findings” can be bought with grants given or withheld. Facts, real objective facts are well established as raciss holdovers from the days of Jim Crow, where we once insisted on foolish notions and superstitions, like 2 + 2 = 4, always, everytime.
We need TRUTH. And who can best determine what truth is – i.e., what is really true. Priests have always fulfilled this function in past societies, and we have our own colloquy of priests. We need to rely on them, and let them – the precious few who know what truth is – make all our decisions for us. It wouldn’t require that much of a societal change. Already, as a general statement, one can notice that nothing happens that a federal judge somewhere doesn’t like.
We now have nine, black-robed, high priests sequestered in a Holy of Holies (aka the Supreme Court) in W. D. of C. Below them are the appellate priests who rule on the correctness (i.e., the truth) of what the district priests and magistrates declare. A priestly declaration from any of these can be overturned only by the wisdom and greater knowledge of truth of a higher-ranking priest. The same rank order exists within the state-sanctioned priesthood of various ranks, though state-empowered priests are acknowledged to be inferior in status, knowledge, power and immutable truth, as opposed to federally-empowered priests.
And how does one become a priest? How can one manage to join the elevated ranks of those who are sole holders of truth-of-the-day, and the absolute knowledge of what is true and right. First one must study in university, and then petition a law school to be come a novitiate. If accepted, the novitiate must diligently study to learn black letter law, which will be subject to change by their rulings IF they succeed in becoming priests. They must lean how to dance the mystic courtroom dances without missing a single step. They must learn the incantations, such as mens rea, malum in se, malum prohibitum, status quo ante, ex parte, stare decisis, ex post facto, and res ipsa loquitur, to mention just a few of the divine incantations (others are secret and are never revealed by those who know them (under penalty of death or disbarment), but in many ways are like the baksheesh or la mordita found in other societies. In the last year of their study they must demonstrate they can do the perfect dance while chanting the mystic incantations. After years of intense study and practice, they are then questioned by a “bar” of wise elderly priests who have worn the black robes for years, and if they pass, they can while supporting themselves by various efforts, make application to get their first black robe themselves. Even after all the years of work and study, if they do not pass this “bar”, they can never don priestly robes, and often are found hanging around in a different sort of bar for the rest of their lives.
Once they have passed the “bar”, they must find a way to support themselves as journeymen of the law as they labor, and continue to study, to increase and improve their knowledge of absolute truth, and they do this by demanding sacrifices from most of the penitents and petitioners who come to them for consultation and counsel – typically they take only 33%, but in cases that do not involved dancing and chanting, they usually charge only an hourly rate for their advice. Only fools or the otherwise improvident dare to appear before a full-fledged, black-robed priest without a priestly “journeyman” (often assisted by one or more apprentices or para-helpers) to accompany, “represent”, and speak for them, with the performance of the perfect dance and the abstruse incantations which the penitent or petitioner does not know and cannot do.
And priest-led societies are also placid, peaceful, and equitable, are they not?
Truth is something that is almost completely inaccessible. We have to make do with lower things like reason and argument and interpretation in the real world.
Pshaw! Everyone knows that "science" retired from the CDC earlier this year! The Apocalypse Brigade has been issuing unfounded dire warnings and unscientific predictions for decades. Robert Redford's IQ plus 27 would add up to 100. Redford wasn't even a particularly good actor (he always played himself in whatever role he was cast in) and he wouldn't know "science" if it bit him in the ass. The tag line under his appearances in public should read: "I'm not a scientist but I play one in testimony before Congress." There is no such thing as "settled" science but the activists would dearly love to appropriate the concept for their own guardianship.
Redford and every other preachy Hollywood leftist should have that law enforced against them to the fullest extent imaginable. Force them all to bulldoze their mansions because the sprinklers went off, fine them daily for every "violation".
Fuck Robert Redford and the horse he whispered to.
Think most people don’t really know who he is anymore. He hasn’t been a legitimate movie star in decades.
Most people under 40 will know him as the bad guy from Captain America, the Winter soldier.
"It's a tax."
If the law, properly interpreted, is out of step with science, it is not for the Court to ignore a statute's plain meaning, but for Congress—the legislative branch and the people's representatives—to fix the problem and make new laws that are grounded in science.
^^^ This. Which offers no comfort to the science-hating brigade either.
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"...the science-hating brigade..."
And this would be?
Everyone in politics.
They only hate science when it fails to support their fantasies. They only tout science when they think they can use it to support their fantasies. When there is no science, they make it up or pay some hack in academe somewhere to fudge up some data they can cite. It's a game the whole family can play!
They only hate science when it fails to support their fantasies
Which would be 100% of the time. Even when actual science doesn't go against what they want, it never supports their position.
Ding ding ding! Except, Demunists find actually getting bills passed too difficult (particularly since they never have the votes nor the support of We the People). That's why they want compliant judges to "make it happen."
Governments should GENERALLY not be making laws based on science. And it is a huge catastrophe of our school system that people have allowed this notion to perpetuate through modern discourse.
No study can identify whether something is moral or immoral, just or injust. Indeed, most of the "studies" purporting to guide our policy makers put them in the position of being extremely immoral. "If we do X 60% of people will have a better life!" Oh really? And what about the remaining 40%? There is nothing moral about creating laws that benefit only some, and often persecute a minority- whether it has a stamp of approval from The Science! (tm) or not.
We know for a fact that masking DID NOT WORK to combat Covid. But whether that science was right or wrong, did not change the fact that it was immoral to force individuals protect others from a natural phenomenon. The science was WRONG on whether or not vaccination would stop the virus. But even if the Vaccine DID prevent infection and transmission and variants, it was morally wrong to force individuals to undergo a medical procedure to protect others from a natural phenomenon.
Ceding our moral decisions to The Science! (tm) is not only immoral, but it is a paved road to hell. Because it merely incentivizes tyrants and their politically biased stooges to dress up their preferred outcomes behind a veneer of pseudo-science. We cannot teach all people to be Climate Scientists and Virologists and Sanitation Experts. But everyone can learn to be moral.
"Governments should GENERALLY not be making laws based on science."
Yeah, let's repeal all the laws against drunken driving. That'll show the commie bastards!
You are missing the point. Science can tell us that drunk drivers are more likely to get in an accident. Only moral judgement can decide if simply being drunk (or having a certain alcohol concentration in your blood) and driving (and not causing an accident) should be a criminal offense.
"Only moral judgement can decide if simply being drunk (or having a certain alcohol concentration in your blood) and driving (and not causing an accident) should be a criminal offense."
You haven't thought this through. Police rely on a piece of scientific equipment to determine drunkenness, not their moral judgement. The law makers who set an acceptable level of blood alcohol do so under the guidance of scientists, not moralists.
While I may not agree with Zeb on policy, he clearly HAS given the issue far more thought than you have.
Note: Police are supposed to ENFORCE the law as written It isn't their job to decide what the law should be.
Legislators DO NOT do ANYTHING under the guidance of science, and many "scientists" don't either.
" he clearly HAS given the issue far more thought than you have."
I'm not convinced either of you have thought much.
Most jurisdictions have decided that a blood alcohol level of 0.08% is illegal for driving. How do you imagine the legislators a) understand what that means, b) arrive at that figure? Do you really think it's impossible for them to have consulted scientists to understand the effects of alcohol, and the amounts necessary to impair driving ability?
Well, yes. He's missing the point since he's entirely too stupid to understand your intent:
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
It is not shocking to me that mtrueman thinks the concept of reckless negligence is science.
Drunkenness is a biochemical reaction to alcohol. That's science. Morality has nothing to do with it.
Drunkenness is a condition.
People have disapproved of it for various reasons long before they knew how it worked chemically.
"Drunkenness is a biochemical reaction to alcohol. That’s science. "
So I guess, according to mtrueman's view of The Science! (tm) Prohibition was a great idea.
"Prohibition was a great idea."
Prohibition was based on the observation of changes in human behavior under the influence of alcohol. "Great idea" is not part of the vocabulary of a scientist, but a moralist. Not The Science! but The Morals!
Science is about observing and measuring natural phenomena, like what happens after a couple of brandy alexanders. Tsk tsking the woman who gets drunk and puts herself in a compromising position is the task of the moralist.
If determining that “Drunkenness is a biochemical reaction to alcohol” is all you need for the law, then your Teh Science! ™ should tell us why Drunk Driving ought to be illegal and general Prohibition should not.
Soo...science me, oh mtrueman.
Are you against basing laws on science or not? Not that I care, honestly, I'm just trying to help you with your thinking. My advice, spend a day or so mulling over the question before you answer it. Firing off the first thing that comes to mind isn't doing you any favors.
I am against ANYONE basing policy on what YOU claim is science. Your comments here sufficiently demonstrate you wouldn't recognize the scientific method if you were walked through it.
I'm glad you take the time to read my comments and respond to them.
Only partially true. Although some might tsk tsk a woman who does something while intoxicated that she would not ordinarily do while sober, the criminal law has morphed into prosecuting men who have sex with an intoxicated woman for rape.
" the criminal law has morphed into prosecuting men who have sex with an intoxicated woman for rape."
Men can even be prosecuted tor raping their wives. Yes, their wives. Is nothing sacred?
Drunk driving laws aren’t based on science, you blithering moron.
How do you determine blood alcohol level without science?
BAC =/= Drunk driving laws.
Drunk driving laws are based on an arbitrary BAC level, which is not scientific, as every individual will be affected differently at different levels.
But thanks for playing.
"laws are based on an arbitrary BAC level"
You mean those levels are chosen at random? You sure about that?
" did not change the fact that it was immoral to force individuals protect others from a natural phenomenon"
Except the masks did not protect others, it harmed those wearing them. (some of them, some of the time)
But the evil is the use of force by the government without due process. (due process in this case being the legislature rather than executive orders)
"Except the masks did not protect others, it harmed those wearing them. "
US had the worst covid record in the world. There are other nations which fared much better which had stricter mask mandates with greater compliance.
I think you might be heading down the wrong track blaming America's abysmal response to covid on masks.
Masks have been shown to not be effective, you science hating retard.
You know America counted people who died with Covid along with the people who died of Covid, don't you?
That does nothing to change my mind re - abysmal covid response.
Of course it doesn't; facts are irrelevant to ignoramuses.
"There are other nations which fared much better which had stricter mask mandates with greater compliance."
The Claremont Review of the science says that mtrueman is wrong. But mtrueman will continue to spout unscientific "common sense" nonsense, because mtrueman isn't interested in the truth, but rather a fantasy.
"The Claremont Review of the science says that mtrueman is wrong"
Let those Claremont Review assholes say that to me in person. They know where they can find me.
mtrueman flying the true commie colors: We'll tell you what the science is, and if you don't like it, we have a bullet for your troubles.
"commie colors"
Word of advice, 9 out of 10 ranting blowhards prefer "KKKommie KKKolors."
It's actually amazing just how much this comment says about you.
I aim to amaze.
If the US had "had the worst covid record in the world", does that suggest we should have copied Swedish policy?
You mean having the central government formulating and executing a national response instead of Trump's shucking the task off to 50 states with conflicting and confusing mandates and recommendations? Yes, in a word.
You mean having a government agency with experience in dealing with pandemics already in place, able to do contact tracing, testing, and advice from past experience instead of ad hoc use of a handful of international consulting firms with dubious records and conflicting interests to run the show? Yes, yes, in two words.
Imagine thinking not acting like a dictator is “shucking the task off” and not the system of federalism we have set up.
The question asked of me was whether we should have copied the Swedish model. I said yes. Whether or not Sweden is a dictatorship is another matter.
And just to be clear, Mr Teh Science! (tm) was wrong when he said this:
"US had the worst covid record in the world."
Our excess death rates weren't substantially higher or lower than other similar countries around the world (island nations notwithstanding). There were very strict countries that did better, and very strict countries that did worse. And Sweden, as others pointed out, did better than most.
"And Sweden, as others pointed out, did better than most."
I condemn the American response and all you can do is praise the Swedish one. Nuff said.
The American response was abysmal. Look at the constitutionally mandated election that was held during the covid pandemic. Its results are still being contested to this day. What other country displayed this much confusion and incompetence? Not Sweden, at least we can both agree on that.
” and all you can do is praise the Swedish one”
For someone who seems so enamored with Teh Science! ™, mtrueman has shown itself to be pretty poor at basic observation today. For the record that was not all I could do. I made several points, but we have come to expect that from you.
“The American response was abysmal.”
And here we see mtrueman’s typical response: change the subject. Mtrueman would like us to forget that he was disputing the notion that masking was useless (or worse). Now he wants to make this about elections and general pandemic response.
But let’s just stay on the subject: Gold standard studies are pretty clear- that masking was ineffective (or worse). It is clear that most of the civilized world’s response to COVID was gawdawful- in part BECAUSE most of the world needlessly pushed masking despite decades of prior research suggesting its uselessness. Sweden or America’s ranking in that pile of dogshit should mean next to nothing to anyone who actually cares about results.
And, the fact that mtrueman continues to defend masking when the rest of the world has come to its senses tells us really all we need to know about what the response would have been like under commies like him: equally bad, but without a moment of humility after the fact. (But that's commies for you- arrogantly doubling down and executions for the people unwilling to share in their fantasy.)
Yes I confess. I'm an evil subject changer.
"that masking was ineffective (or worse)."
I haven't opined on the efficacy of masks. You're thinking of someone else.
"US had the worst covid record in the world. There are other nations which fared much better which had stricter mask mandates with greater compliance."
- mtrueman
Hard to circle that square.
I’m not convinced masks saved lives or took lives. I haven’t opined on the efficacy of masks, only that some countries has stricter mask mandates than the US and still had superior responses to covid. Don’t take my word, look it up if you don’t believe me.
I think it's wrong headed to blame America's abysmal response to covid on masks and mask mandates. The idea is that other nations had mask mandates even stricter but had superior responses. That means there must be something else afoot other than masks to explain the difference. I already gave some alternatives with the example of Sweden. ie a national response where the ministry of health called the shots, rather than the confusing patchwork US response where the responsibility was given to international consulting firms of questionable ability and conflicting interests. You really don't care about any of that, do you? I think you just want to join the rest here and carry water for DeSantis.
Carry water for DeSantis? I don’t even like DeSantis.
No, what I’m interested in is more how you make nebulous critiques and are clearly angry at the US COVID response even though nobody dealt with COVID well, if that’s even possible to do. I just get a kick out of your righteous screaming about how terrible the US is, but never give examples, waffle back and forth about claims like masking, demand strict adherence to science, but then turn around and claim many things can’t be determined by science or that science doesn’t know.
What I simply see is a person righteously lecturing in the amorphous about how someone should have done better without any really explanation for what better is. You basically just seem like someone having a temper tantrum over a subject matter you can’t even be specific about.
" I don’t even like DeSantis. "
I don't think anyone does. He's got the charisma of a wet mop.
"No, what I’m interested in is more how you make nebulous critiques and are clearly angry at the US COVID response even though nobody dealt with COVID well, if that’s even possible to do."
Are you not angry about the US covid response? If you are happy with it, I suggest you take the trouble to look at how it was handled in other places. If you don't want to, fine.
"but then turn around and claim many things can’t be determined by science or that science doesn’t know. "
There are many things science doesn't know. What is time? What is life? Every physicist and biologist you ask will give you a different answer.
"You basically just seem like someone having a temper tantrum over a subject matter you can’t even be specific about."
Again, do your own research and think for yourself. You're a fool to rely on me. I can't make this any clearer.
Rare that someone's response in what's supposed to be contrarian so perfectly solidifies my position. Thanks!
"perfectly solidifies my position. Thanks!"
Your position is as soft as shite. DeSanits' exemplary covid policies? Masks killed millions of Americans while sparing the lives of everyone else? Gimme a break.
So, I never said DeSantis’ policies were exemplary nor did I say masks killed people.
Here’s a thought, when you have to make up what others say in order to win an argument, you may want to rethink your position.
NO, there are NOT other countries that had significantly different Covid results, regardless of how they responded. Your source has been thoroughly discredited by EVERY attempt at objective analysis.
I'll take Sweden.
Whether the masks did or did not protect the public, it was still immoral for the government to force (i.e. mandate the wearing of masks under the threat of punishment for noncompliance) anyone to wear them. It was also (or should have been) illegal for Governors or Legislatures to mandate them however you define due process. In this case due process would have been limited to proving that a particular individual was contagious and requiring that person to stay home for a reasonable period of time.
Pandemics give our medical men and women a season in the sun. For once they get to tell the lawyers and moralists to keep their traps shut and do as they're told. In the case of America, it's not medical professionals. but international consultants hired on an ad hoc basis. The same bunglers who gave us the Obamacare website fiasco. This is a self inflicted wound.
Perhaps PLF can find a way to keep the EPA from management of large portions of the US economy, such as mandating X percentage of EVs from the automotive industry and outlawing NG-gas fueled appliances.
Their 5 Year Plan stands a good chance of delivering exactly what Stalin's did; poverty and suffering.
They will need more donations to be able to afford that. The activists’ grand strategy is to bankrupt the opposition by requiring us to challenge an ever-increasing number of unconstitutional laws, regulations and executive orders that they know are unconstitutional when the impose them but that they impose anyway thinking that we will eventually get tired of losing the rigged game or run out of resources to keep up the fight. And they’re probably right.
Dunno. Some folks there seem hopeful.
And famine, don't forget famine.
Progressives are fucking stupid.
No, they aren't. That is the smokescreen they hide behind so that we don't try, convict, and hang them all.
What they ACTUALLY are is malicious abusive bullies / totalitarians.
Until we (sane Americans) are willing to acknowledge the truth about what our enemies actually are, they will continue to win.
They will continue to win because "we" cannot force people to be free, but they can force people to surrender freedom.
I think this gets at the crux of the problem. You can’t MAKE people choose freedom or liberty.
The Supreme Court Is Not in a 'War on Science'
I would watch a Clarence Thomas/Trofim Fauci deathmatch.
This is what happens when a society becomes so misinformed about the nature of the government and governmental institutions and the roles played.
This is what happens when religious political adherence becomes the driving force for anything, rather than fundamental principles.
This is what happens when the legislature completely shirks its duties and leaves the president to become king and the SCOTUS to become the all deciding super-legislature.
We are simply suffering from many fundamental breakdowns of understanding coupled with highly selfish and narcissistic individual motivations.
This is what happens when Demunists are allowed to run things.
Judges who actually uphold our laws and Constitution as written make Demunists sad.
If you were born with a Y chromosome and have a penis and testes, you are male. That’s science. But if you tell that to the SCIENCE crowd, you’re using anti-tranny hate speech which matters more than science.
If you were born with a Y chromosome and have a penis and testes, you are male. That’s science.
Really ? Explain hermaphrodites: both pseudo-hermaphrodites and true hermaphrodites, and the endocrinology of both.
Hermaphrodites are neither male nor female and have never been classified as either. I am talking specifically about kids who were clearly born as boys or girls until they (or their parents) decided they weren’t.
Hermaphrodites / Intersex children are assigned (crammed into) a gender based upon external genitalia, even if the internals are different. This is the problem with binary definitions when there is clearly more than just a binary solution. In such cases there is a clear possibility of "getting it wrong" when the child matures and starts exhibiting sexual preferences contrary to what they have been assigned. You have absolutely no idea what is their pants and even less of an idea of what their biology is going to express when puberty hits, yet here you are ... 3rd party proclaiming what they are, should be classified as, and inflicting your opinions on their lives. Leave people alone and stop meddling in their medical affairs.
Are you the champion for equal rights for all medical and mental disorders.
I suppose doctors are obsolete now. Hahaha
Maybe the plague will make you a better you.
Non-disjunction of the sex chromosomes during meiosis (MII) in either oocytes or sperm resulting in trisomy.
A person being born without a leg does not disprove that people have two legs.
Extremely unusual circumstances are extremely unusual. Not the norm.
No, but it disproves that all humans have two legs.
But no one is arguing that there is no such thing as intersex or ambiguous genitals or anything like that. And such conditions are for the most part unrelated to the transgender phenomenon.
He’s insane.
Thalidomide did that, after it replaced marijuana in the pharmacopoeia. Thalidomide (http://bit.ly/3MpETWX)
public policy should never be made based on exceptions or anomalies. the fact is that for nearly every human being who has ever existed chromosomes have determined sex. and that is in fact science. i could not give a shit about the 13 hermaphrodites living today.
Explain hermaphrodites: both pseudo-hermaphrodites and true hermaphrodites, and the endocrinology of both.
There are no true hermaphrodites among the higher, if not all, vertebrates. And the demand for the endocrinology is retarded as the dimorphism and binary nature is preserved across completely different endocrine systems. There are vertebrates that are known to switch sexes but there are none known to effectively maintain the function of both sexes at the same time. Even in true hermaphroditic species, the semen producing organs and ova producing organs are distinct and individuals lack one or the other are readily identifiable as male or female, maintaining the underlying dichotomy.
"That’s science. "
Not really. It's taxonomy. Applying labels to things. It's long proven to be extremely unstable. Pluto was once labelled a planet. Fungi were once labelled as members of plant kingdom. (excuse the sexist language.) These labels change as science advances. And, by the way, we were calling people males long before anyone knew anything about chromosomes.
I like how all of you in the party of science are latching on to the concept of nothing really can be determined by science while at the same time being the most righteous lecturers about the science.
I assume someday this complete train wreck of illogic will be understood. But for now we get both the "nothing can truly be known" coupled with "if you don't fully adhere to what I say, you are anti-science."
A world where having your cake and eating it too is a valid means of argument is not a valid world.
Science is a constantly evolving process. Biologists can't even agree among themselves what the definition of 'life' is. Labels we assume to be fixed can change according to our deeper understanding. I gave the examples of planethood and planthood. You may be overthinking this, as it's not too difficult to understand.
It took two (2) people to write this piece.
Well, what did you expect? They were writing for Reason.
The mindless sheep just make it up. Words have no meaning.
Get woke! Science is now part of doctrine, and therefore can only be interpreted by the priesthood, who are trained to explain the mysteries to the great unwashed masses. The masses in turn must sing the proper hymns and smite the unbelievers. If they disobey, they risk salvation.
Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. When someone says, “Science teaches such and such,” he is using the word incorrectly. Science doesn’t teach anything; experience teaches it.
-- Richard Feynman.
experience = experiment
ex = out of
peritus = to try, to risk
Bzzz! Wrong!
People unaware of the existence of observational sciences (like, you know, the entirety of astronomy) have no business having opinions on the role of science in anything, because they don't have any idea what they're talking about.
"the existence of observational sciences"
Not sure what you're driving at. All science is observational. The definition of science (The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.) precludes a non observational science.
With a similar doctrine, the West Texas court that put a ban on the abortion pill combination is NOT about abortion. Rather is its about FDA failing to follow its own rules under the Administrative Procedures Act. Jurists kept the incredibly unconstitutional DACA program in place by a similar APA move. SCOTUS chose to support the left in that case, ignore the constitutional issue
TRUTHFUL, adj. Dumb and illiterate.
Ambrose Bierce
"One problem: The Clean Water Act only applies to "navigable waters" and—as the Supreme Court ruled last week—only wetlands that share a continuous surface water connection with them."
There may be another problem. The Act was written some 50 years ago and presumably incorporates the knowledge current of that time. I'm curious if there has been any advances in the science of water and wetlands during the intervening years that undermines the wording or intent of the original Act. If the Supreme Court doesn't take any scientific development into account and relies solely on out-dated laws, then they aren't delivering a sound judgement.
My thought as well. Evolution of policy, science, public policy requires incorporating new truths along the way.
And restricting to 'navigable' and continuous surface waters seems almost completely arbitrary to me.
If it is legally arbitrary, then the law is unconstitutional, and the correction is not that it applies to all waters, but that it applies to none.
" legally arbitrary"
No, 'waterly' arbitrary. Water is water whether it's navigable or not. And one body of water may be connected to another in the subsurface.
The evolution of policy is a responsibility of the policy-making branches, and the revision of legislation is the job of the legislature.
Only authoritarians want unelected lifetime appointees making policy.
You can tell someone has a deep and abiding hatred of democratic government when they demand that unelected, lifetime-appointed judges rewrite democratically-adopted legislation on the grounds that the legislation is "out-dated".
Judges don't rewrite laws. Their task is to interpret laws, and their relevance to the matter at hand.
"deep and abiding hatred of democratic government "
That's silly. Not democratic governments don't allow judges to rewrite laws any more than democratic ones.
"The Supreme Court has one job and one job only: to interpret and apply the laws passed by Congress and signed by the president."
LOL - how quaint. The Court does that only on occasion.
The rest of the time it erodes the Bill or Rights and anything that would keep BIG Brother from intruding its jurisdiction to invade the Middle East, Panama, your stomach or a woman's insides. This is why Jeezes Caucus anarcho-fascists are so bent on abolishing borders: women would then have no place to hide, not even Canada.
To reiterate from the text:
"The Supreme Court has one job and one job only: to interpret and apply the laws passed by Congress and signed by the president. That's it."
This means, I hope, that the Court will keep its grubby sticky fingers off the Constitution. More specifically, perhaps the current Court will return to the practice of previous courts of taking 'stare decisis' seriously. Even more specifically, perhaps this Court will read the 2nd Amendment again and stop ignoring the first line.
Repeating it doesn’t make it true.
The framers of the constitution obviously meant for it and all its parts to “establish justice”. SCOTUS has the supremacy clause to do just that,
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice…”
Or maybe it just "meant" EXACTLY what it says instead of some twisted, manipulative modern day treasonous re-write/interpretation.
And maybe; the Pre-Ample isn't an excuse to re-write/re-interpret it however one see's fitting to redefine the USA but perhaps a statement of purpose for the document itself (without some hacks-job re-writing it as they see fit).
FYI; The Supremacy clause is for U.S. legislation within it's Constitutionally granted - delegated authority. It's not some "anything goes" authoritarian power for SCOTUS.
What I wrote is exactly what the constitution says, means and the supremacy clause gives SCOTUS the authority to ensure that every other law conforms with it.
If you don’t like these facts, you can try to refute them, or just keep looking stupid.
You quoted the Pre-Ample. The "introduction" paragraph which isn't even considered an actual part of the law part of the Constitution. Then you filled in whatever you wanted.
That section you were claiming actually says ........... "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States ***which shall be made in Pursuance thereof***"
- Unauthorized/UN-Constitutional legislation does NOT fit that.
Take a look at Cruickshank v US. Louisiana klansmen stormed a courthouse, murdered some 70 blacks--half by shooting the backs of their heads. Meanwhile Comstock laws made everyone eager to defeat the Republican party. So the Supreme court was tasked to find a way to ignore the massacre and let the Ku-klux walk in exchange for letting Republicans keep Comstock and win. After all, they'd already gotten the protective tariff the Civil War was fought over. See blog (https://bit.ly/3IViDRT)
Everything is a "war" when the bleating sheep don't get their way. Go to hell.
The Supreme Court declared the Volstead Act and draft OK, and grinned as prohibitionists invented stories about LSD mutating your chromiums (Drs. Farnsworth & Kingfish) as pretext for deadly force with which to ban it. All the lies that banned LSD failed to ban nuclear energy, which can afford better counsel. Now the same allegations that banned acid and slowed nuclear development to generate energy crises are resurrected to assert that sweetener messes up your chromiums, to the delight of the sugar industry. Who wins?
Watch-out for leftard Projection. It’s every leftards major character trait.
The left used Gov-Guns to launch a Gun-Forced “war” (environmentalism) against the people and as soon as SCOTUS says that’s an inappropriate use of Gun-Force (i.e. “war” tactics) the left cries SCOTUS is launching a “war” on science.
Leftard ——> PROJECTION <——– 101. Screaming, yelling and blaming anyone and everyone else for **EXACTLY** what they themselves are doing.
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