The Left-Right Spectrum Is Mostly Meaningless
The political landscape doesn’t fit on a simple map.

Here is one version of the left-right spectrum, as described in 1975 by a former Barry Goldwater speechwriter who had left the conservative movement to break bread with Black Panthers and Wobblies. The far right, Karl Hess wrote in Dear America, was the realm of "monarchy, absolute dictatorships, and other forms of absolutely authoritarian rule," be they fascist or Stalinist or anything else. The left, conversely, favored "the distribution of power into the maximum number of hands." And the "farthest left you can go, historically at any rate, is anarchism—the total opposition to any institutionalized power."
Here is an alternate spectrum, presented four years earlier by two members of the John Birch Society. "Communism is, by definition, total government," Gary Allen and Larry Abraham declared in None Dare Call It Conspiracy. "If you have total government it makes little difference whether you call it Communism, Fascism, Socialism, Caesarism or Pharaohism." And if "total government (by any of its pseudonyms) stands on the far Left, then by logic the far Right should represent anarchy, or no government." On the right side of the spectrum, but not as far right as anarchism, was their preferred system: "a Constitutional Republic with a very limited government."
As you no doubt noticed, these two maps are basically mirror images. Oh, you'll find little differences if you probe the details. When Hess discussed late Maoist China, for example, he made refinements that the Birchers might discard, distinguishing the party bureaucracy ("much more to the right") from the rambunctious countryside ("very far to the left"). But both books defined the spectrum in essentially the same terms. They just couldn't agree on that minor little matter of which way is left and which is right.
Each of those maps has its quirks. When the Bircher duo put anarchy on the far right, they didn't merely mean free market anarchists of the Murray Rothbard sort: The only anarchist their book mentioned by name was the old-school anarcho-collectivist Mikhail Bakunin, who most people would call a radical leftist. Hess, meanwhile, conceded that his configuration puts the average liberal Democrat "to the right of many conservatives." Charming as it is for Goldwater's ex-speechwriter to conclude that his old boss was to the left of Lyndon Johnson, this idea would be a hard sell to most Americans.
But then, every left-right model starts to look strange if you peer closely enough. "Why do we refer to both Milton Friedman (a Jewish, pro-capitalist pacifist) and Adolf Hitler (an anti-Semitic, anti-capitalist militarist) as 'right wing' when they had opposite policy views on every point?" ask the historian Hyrum Lewis and his political scientist brother Verlan in The Myth of Left and Right, a new book that sets dynamite charges around the very concept of the political spectrum. "We shouldn't. Placing both Hitler and Friedman on the same side of a spectrum as if they shared some fundamental essence is both misleading and destructive."
The Lewises are sometimes prone to overstatement, and one of those overstatements is in that passage: While Friedman did tend to be anti-war, he was not a pacifist. But the most notable war that he supported was World War II, otherwise known as the war against Hitler. Even if the authors got their example slightly wrong, their underlying point about Hitler and Friedman is basically right.
So is their broader point. No model of the political spectrum will ever be satisfying, the Lewis brothers argue, because "left" and "right" are not actually ideologies—they are "bundles of unrelated political positions connected by nothing other than a group." An American in 2004 who wanted low taxes, a vigorous war on terror, and a constitutional amendment against gay marriage was taking "right-wing" positions, but what linked such disparate opinions? Nothing but sociology, say the Lewises: "A conservative or liberal is not someone who has a conservative or liberal philosophy, but someone who belongs to the conservative or liberal tribe."
And those tribes' outlooks evolve over time, as their positions on the issues (and the importance they grant to different issues) gradually change. There are "sticky ideologues" who stay attached to earlier tribal visions, and they're the people who end up saying things like "I didn't leave the Democrats—the Democrats left me." But it's more common to gradually move along with the crowd. It isn't the ideology that defines the tribe, the Lewises conclude: It's the tribe that defines the ideology.
* * *
The left-right framework dates back to the beginning of the French Revolution, when the insurgents sat on the left end of the National Assembly and the royalists on the right. The metaphor soon caught on in much of Europe, but the Lewises argue that it did not really take hold in the U.S. until the 20th century. Some of the earliest American uses they find involve people describing rival factions of socialists. (It is surprisingly common to find references to "right-wing socialists" in newspapers of this period—not because people thought socialists were right-wing, but because some socialists were more radical than others.) Over the course of the 1920s and '30s, Americans became comfortable describing the left and right wings of the Democratic and Republican parties as well.
There wasn't much confusion over who belonged on the left or the right in those days, the Lewises claim, because "national politics was primarily about just one issue—the size of government." By their account, the 1930s spectrum was similar to the one the Birchers imagined in the '70s, with your position determined by how big and active a state you favor. This is one of their overstatements: Fascism was regularly described as right-wing in the American press of the '30s, and not just in reference to events in Europe. In 1939, an editorialist for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch even expressed wonderment that the fascist intellectual Lawrence Dennis and the socialist economist Paul Sweezy would sound so similar, finding it notable that balanced budgets were under "equal attack from Fascistic and Left-wing economists."
But it is true that many issues that seem like core left-right concerns today were not treated as such nine decades ago. If you were segregationist but pro–New Deal, you were seen as part of the liberal coalition; if you were pro–civil rights but anti–New Deal, you were called a conservative. Many of the latter insisted that they were "true liberals," but even then they were not inclined to declare themselves the "true left." In any event, as more issues attached themselves to the spectrum—desegregation, the Cold War, "family values"—the more complicated the meanings of "left" and "right" became. And then people started projecting their revised spectrums onto the past, tangling everything up further.
The same year Hess published Dear America, the historian Ronald Radosh published Prophets on the Right, a study of five "conservative critics of American globalism" whose views sometimes anticipated those of the anti-militarist New Left: the progressive historian Charles Beard, the muckraking journalist John T. Flynn, the Republican politician Robert Taft, the onetime Nation editor Oswald Garrison Villard, and the aforementioned fascist Lawrence Dennis. It is indeed interesting that these "right-wing" figures criticized U.S. foreign policy in ways that a later "left-wing" historian would find appealing. But what's even more interesting is that three of the five—Beard, Flynn, and Villard—were seen in the 1930s as men of the left. Their criticisms of Franklin Roosevelt meant they eventually started keeping right-wing company, but only Flynn substantially changed his views in the wake of those new friendships. (On one axis, the Villard of the 1940s was arguably more "left-wing" than the Villard of the 1920s, given that he had retreated from his old laissez faire liberalism and embraced parts of the New Deal.) Even Taft, the standard-bearer of the '40s and '50s right, got his start as a progressive Republican. The chief reason he first ran for office in 1920 was to make it easier for local governments to raise taxes.
Here we run into another place where The Myth of Left and Right gets its account slightly wrong in a manner that ultimately underlines rather than undermines its larger themes. When the Lewises discuss the ways people project the spectrum onto past political divisions, they declare it absurd that historians "routinely refer to Jeffersonians as 'on the left' and Hamiltonians as 'on the right'"; they go on to deride the notion that "Jacksonian Democrats share a 'left-wing' essence with today's Democrats and that the Whig Party shares a 'right-wing' essence with today's Republicans." This feels a few decades out of date. Today one is much more likely to see liberals hailing Hamilton as a hero while offering less love for Jefferson, and Jackson is now widely seen as a prototype for the Trumpian right. But this just supports the Lewis brothers' point: The meanings of "left" and "right" are so fluid that one generation can flip its fathers' image of the antebellum spectrum on its head. It's especially easy when none of the people they're discussing conceived of their politics in left-right terms.
The Lewises conclude that we're better off without talk of "left" and "right" at all. They make a compelling case that the metaphor fosters dogmatism, prejudice, confusion, confirmation bias, and a view of politics as a Manichean struggle between two (and only two) forces, among other evils. Better, they say, just to junk it.
* * *
Whether or not you want to throw out the left-right model, you must admit that this would solve one problem: Where do you put the libertarians? The answer isn't clear unless you build your entire spectrum around the question "How much government should there be?"—and even then, Hess and the Birchers have shown us that there won't be a complete consensus on where the libertarians should go.
Within the movement, you will sometimes hear references to what sounds like a special political spectrum that's just for libertarians, with various individuals described as "left-wing" or "right-wing" libertarians. But it soon becomes clear that the speakers don't always have the same spectrum in mind. You can be a "left-libertarian" by wanting to ally yourself with the Democrats, or by wanting to ally yourself with a radical left that holds Democrats in contempt, or (in a weird twist) by subscribing to an academic philosophy that puts an egalitarian spin on the ideas of John Locke. One can be a "right-libertarian" by being socially conservative but dovish, by being socially liberal but hawkish, by being friendly to corporate interests, or, lately, by being hostile to corporate interests, provided you dress up that opposition with words like "woke capital." As the larger world's concepts of "left" and "right" shift, so do those concepts in the liberty movement.
Another new book responds to the "Where do you put the libertarians?" question with an answer that is both simple and complicated: You can put them pretty much everywhere. The Individualists, written by the political philosophers Matt Zwolinski and John Tomasi, is an intellectual history that sets out to show how libertarians can appear alternately as either radical or reactionary. To that end, the authors offer a tour through a kaleidoscopic assortment of libertarian variations, from the pro-border paleolibertarians to the anti-corporate mutualists to the followers of Henry George, with an eye on how different figures and factions have addressed such topics as war, poverty, and civil rights.
The result is one of the best guides you'll find to the libertarian universe. I have my inevitable disagreements with the authors, but they get two big things right.
For one, they eschew an overly restrictive definition of libertarianism. This is a guide to the things that people who call themselves libertarian believe, not a series of judgments on which of those people actually deserve to be called libertarian. There is a place for such polemics, but there is a place as well for just getting the lay of the land, and this fills that role well. Only toward the end do the authors show their hand and reveal where they are coming from themselves: They are self-described "bleeding-heart libertarians" who are willing to accept some forms of government action in the interest of social justice. But they do not turn the book into a bleeding-heart manifesto, and they generally play fair when presenting their rival schools' positions.
In place of a narrow definition, Zwolinski and Tomasi present libertarianism as a cluster of commitments: to property rights, negative liberty, individualism, free markets, spontaneous order, and a skepticism toward authority. Different libertarians may stress each commitment to a greater or lesser degree. This is a far more informative model than any one-dimensional line can be. But if you're attached to that line, it's not hard to see how leaning more strongly into one principle than another can pull one to the "left" or "right," whatever those mean this week.
So can how one defines the principle in the first place. If you hear two libertarians proclaiming their support for private property, you shouldn't assume that they mean the same thing. One might be defending the current distribution of wealth, and the other might be ready to redistribute any property he views as illegitimately acquired. (In 1969, Rothbard suggested that companies that get more than 50 percent of their profits from the government should be turned over to their workers.)
This reflects the second big thing that Zwolinski and Tomasi get right: a well-informed historical sense of how libertarian leanings can manifest themselves in different ways in different times and places. In France and the United Kingdom, they argue, 19th century libertarianism developed "largely in response to the threat of socialism," and so it often (though not always) took on a conservative cast, marked by alliances with established property owners. "For the first American libertarians," by contrast, "the greatest enemy to liberty was not socialism but slavery"; the movement's other targets included patriarchy, corporate privilege, and other foes that today would mark them as "left-wing." The idea that American libertarianism is "right-wing" didn't take hold until well after the 20th century was underway.
* * *
Here we come to the book's biggest misjudgment. To understand what's wrong with it, you first must be familiar with a common cliché in conversations about how conservatives came to be aligned with libertarians: the idea that this was a "tactical alliance, forged under duress during the Cold War."
I took that quote from an article in the Claremont Review of Books, but the same basic idea has been expressed in countless other places. And it is plainly false. American libertarians started to ally themselves with conservatives in substantial numbers in the 1930s, well before the Cold War began. Their shared interest wasn't opposition to communism; it was opposition to the New Deal. The Cold War was, in fact, a major source of tension between conservatives and libertarians, because a great many libertarians thought the Cold War was bad. Over the course of the Soviet-American standoff, conservatives and libertarians locked horns over Vietnam, draft resistance, covert wars, arms control treaties, and more.
If you set aside those groups that simply didn't deal with foreign policy as a part of their mission, you'll find that virtually all of the major libertarian institutions that emerged from the '60s through the '80s were critics of the Cold War. The Cato Institute and the Mises Institute are often presented as polar opposites, but both were dominated by doves. So was the Libertarian Party. The one major exception was Reason, which was more hawkish in the Soviet era than today—and even so, the magazine's pages were open to anti–Cold War arguments. Conservative attacks on libertarians in that period were at least as likely to center on foreign policy as they were to center on gay rights or drugs.
Yes, you had Cold Warriors perched at National Review arguing that libertarians should join forces with conservatives (and, in some cases, offering a philosophical rationale for wedding libertarian ideas about freedom to traditionalist views of virtue). But the people who followed that advice tended to be a part of the conservative movement, not the libertarian movement. They didn't ally themselves; they subsumed themselves. Meanwhile, a vocal minority of libertarians decided to ally instead with the left—thanks, in large part, to that shared opposition to the Cold War. (Noam Chomsky has said that "the only journal I could publish in as long as it existed" was Inquiry, a magazine produced for most of its seven-year history by Cato.) If you polled the movement rank and file on whether they were left-wing or right-wing, the most common response would probably be that they were neither.
It was actually the end of the Cold War that made space for oddities like the "paleo" alliance of the 1990s, precisely because libertarians like Murray Rothbard and conservatives like Pat Buchanan no longer had the question of combating communism to divide them.
Zwolinski and Tomasi know this history. They recognize that the right-libertarian alliance began in the 1930s, not the '40s or '50s, and they highlight some of the left-libertarian cooperation of the Cold War era. Yet they christen this period "Cold War libertarianism," because it was a time when "the struggle against socialism came to dominate the libertarian worldview." They mean the struggle against socialistic economic policies, yet the name they picked highlights a conflict with a foreign power. It's an ill-chosen label that inadvertently reinforces a false historical narrative.
That frame also leaves Zwolinski and Tomasi handicapped when describing the world that came after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Having divided the rest of American libertarian history into the anti-authoritarian radicalism of the 19th century and the conservative alliance of the 20th, they describe the period since 1989 as a "third wave" marked by "active contestation"—that is, as a period in which neither radicals nor reactionaries dominate. But is that really so different from the 1970s, when some libertarians happily joined forces with the Reaganites while others celebrated the counterculture, feminism, and humanist psychology? If you subscribed to the Laissez Faire Books catalog in 1975, you could have ordered either Dear America or None Dare Call It Conspiracy. It was a big tent.
* * *
Despite that misstep, The Individualists is an excellent sketch of the libertarian landscape. One of the most impressive things about it is that it manages to show the "left-wing" and "right-wing" sides of libertarianism without lapsing very frequently into the language of "left" and "right." This is not a book that tries to compress politics into a one-dimensional spectrum. It charts a rich, multidimensional space.
But as you may have noticed, I couldn't help slipping into that language myself a few times while I discussed the book. The Lewis brothers are right about the left-right spectrum: It's a misleading metaphor, and we'd be better off if we had never been saddled with it. Yet even if "left" and "right" denote social tribes rather than consistent ideologies, those tribes themselves are real, and this is the language they use to describe themselves.
And I have to confess something: I kind of like all these ridiculous left-right schematics. If you can accept the fact that there is no perfect model of political opinion, just partial and impermanent maps of a vast and constantly shifting territory, then they can be useful snapshots of the terrain. I don't think either Hess or the Birchers had the one, true diagram of the political world, but each of their approaches is, in its way, an interesting window into 1970s America. If you can comprehend both—and their many rivals too—you can gradually create a cubist portrait of the period that shows more than any single angle would reveal.
In that spirit, let me mention one last take on the left-right spectrum. It was created by the market anarchist Samuel Edward Konkin III, and it appeared in the March 1980 issue of New Libertarian magazine. Like the Hess spectrum and the Bircher spectrum, this one was built around how statist you are. More precisely: Konkin put anarchism on the left and put Actually Existing States on the right, he placed people according to how much he felt they conceded to the latter, and then he collapsed the results into a single Flatland line.
The results resemble that Saul Steinberg cartoon of how the world looks to a New Yorker, where two blocks of the city loom larger than anything on the other side of the Hudson. The left end of the chart is an exhaustive accounting of the libertarian movement as it appeared to Konkin in 1980. (My favorite absurdly specific detail: Reason is to the left of the Libertarian Supper Club of San Diego but to the right of the Libertarian Supper Club of Orange County.) The right end of the chart, on the other hand, feels like a 40-car crash: People with virtually nothing in common politically sit cheek by jowl, to the point where the Palestine Liberation Organization is adjacent to National Review.
And in the center of the Konkin spectrum? There you have the "far-left statists"—that is, people who accepted too much government for the chart maker to consider them libertarians but who came closest to making it into the tent. The furthest left of the far-left statists is our friend Hess, whose tolerance for ultra-local levels of government prompted Konkin to call his views "neighborhood statism." And four steps to Hess' right, but still in the far-left-statist zone, there's the John Birch Society.
As a guide to the politics of 1980, this won't get you far. But as a glimpse at an eccentric worldview, it's sublime. Objectively speaking, "left" and "right" are nonsense concepts, for all the reasons Hyrum and Verlan Lewis tell us. Subjectively speaking, people nonetheless use them to make sense of the world. Let there be two, three, many spectrums, each making its own kind of crazy sense.
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Spammers and scammers lean far left. They are dishonest, like all left leaning people.
This thread is truly hilarious in the way it worked out.
It’s no longer left versus right.
It’s normals versus crazies.
If you think there are only 2 sexes and women should only compete against women and female locker rooms and bathrooms should be off limits to men you are normal.
If you think the homeless should not be allowed to take over the public parks and sidewalks and create an open air drug market with public defecation and discarded needles you are normal.
If you want schools to teach children reading, writing, arithmetic and to leave sexual and political indoctrination out of schools, you are normal.
If you want only immigrants who are vetted and to stop human trafficking at the borders, you are normal.
If you want the police and courts to arrest and imprison violent criminals and you want a gun to protect yourself, you are normal.
Nowadays call normal people conservatives or republicans.
And those who can’t tell men from women, enable the mentally ill homeless, want unlimited immigration, and are for defunding the police, we call these crazy people leftists or democrats.
If you want the voters to elect the politicians, then you are typically in the ‘democrat’ camp. If you want the politicians (the state legislators) to elect the voters so they can be re-elected, you can be in either camp, but more often in the Christian Nationalist camp today. The ‘Redmap’ political project successfully elected a majority of these types of politician to red-state legislations and they have successfully created larger and larger gerrymandered majorities.
The demos have created some gerrymandered districts in blue states, the Christian Nationalists have just done it more successfully for more states. That’s why you have a couple of democrat governors and state-level politicians with big repub state legislature majorities trying the legislate away the right to have referendums in purple states.
That's bullshit. If you look at those districts, they also voted overwhelmingly for Republican presidential candidates. In fact, progressive Nate Silvers did a deep dive on this, and said that at most, gerrymandering effects about six to eight seats and it's evenly split between the parties. As for the whole Christian Nationalist fear mongering it is just that a talking point designed to demonize anyone on the right you disagree with. You've shown your true colors. Thank you for playing.
Also, if you look at county by county voting preferences, you would see, the near even split of Congress is not representative of voting preferences, because blue counties are extremely few compared to red counties. The fact is Democrats are the overwhelming majority of a very small area geographically. That's why they win fewer districts than the national popular vote. Because the popular national vote is a bullshit metric. As for blue governors of red states, or purple states, again they tend to win an overly large percentage of small geographical areas with large populations. Take Tester, (he's a senator but still illustrates my point) he loses by large percentages outside of Gallatin, Missoula and Silverbow and like two others (by much smaller numbers) So three counties out 56. So your argument is that the makeup of Montana's government is the result of Gerrymandering, when the one Democrat (who actually hasn't captured a majority of votes the last three times, largely due to three or four local right leaning parties that take single digit but enough that Tester squeaks by) elected to statewide office won less than ten percent of the counties in the state? You're a special kind of stupid. Also, we joke here in Montana that Tested always seems to remember he's an independent Democrat the year before he's up for reelection.
Additionally, the land size of these districts are largely the result of low population densities. So, take like Washington state, a Blue state (very blue) over half the population lives in a very small geographical strip of about five or six counties along the I-5 corridor. But they get to decide the direction of the state's government despite being such a small percentage of the state as a whole, geographically. Now you can say popular vote, but we're not a direct democracy. The needs of the small (population) large (geographically) rural counties deserve representation and their voices not to be drowned out by the extremely population dense urban centers. That's why Eastern Oregon and to a lesser extent, eastern Washington have both spoken about leaving their state and either forming their own (when I was a kid the idea was Northern Idaho and Eastern Washington would become a new state, Columbia so that both areas were better represented) or joining Idaho (Northern Nevada has also talked about forming a new state with Eastern Oregon). You call it gerrymandering, but in reality it's the fact that in almost every single state, the rural outlands are red, but a very small geographical area is deepest blue (almost black it's so dark). It's not gerrymandering, it's the fact that Democrats congregate in extremely blue districts, at a rate that is much higher than the lower population (but larger geographical area) red portions of those states. Since we're not a democracy but a republic, those lower population rural areas get some guarantees of representation. Democrats hate this, leftists hate this, because by direct democracy they can ignore the needs and wants of everything outside those superdense, ultra blue urban centers. Until those red districts get pissed and cut off everything we produce that makes those ultra dense urban centers liveable (imagine how long New York City would last if the red leaning Catskill mountain counties cut off the water or red central US states cut off the bread and meat we produce). The fact is blue districts create almost nothing physical. Hell, with the internet, we don't even need them for finance anymore and as for seaports, to ship agricultural goods and petroleum, the vast majority of it is already shipped out from Gulf Coast ports, i.e. some of the reddest of the red. And the vast majority of manufacturing is also in those red areas. So if we gave all the ultra dense blue districts the control they think they deserve, because of the ultra dense populations, we would have a system where the people who make everything that those urban areas rely on, will have little to no say in representation. So, a servile working class, supporting an urban elite. Ask Oregon and Washington residents outside the I-5 corridor (or rural California and Nevada) how well that has worked out for them. Washington state was number three in dairy production at the start of the century. They're now barely in the top ten, and dropping fast because, as Seattle and it's collar counties have gone deeper blue, they've regulated the states dairy industry (and beef industry) almost to extinction and they're agrarian counties in Eastern and central Washington. Soon they'll run almost all the farmers out of the state, because of over representation of a single urban area that doesn't understand agriculture but totally believes they should still be able to tell farmers and ranchers how and what to do.
If you believe that, I've got a "high speed" rail project to sell you.
Gerrymandering by GOP pols makes the news more often for the same reason that victims of police shootings have to be "melanated" to a certain level to get mentioned on CNN (almost a reverse "paper bag test", but the threshold is a few shades darker) or most of the rest of the MSM; those stories fit the greater narriative that those outlets want to be telling (and the one their audiences want to hear).
With 50+ US House districts and 120 total State Legislative seats, California hasn't had a total of 20 "competitive" races in the last 20 years; for most of that time, every attempt to take the power of districting out of the hands of the State Legislature was derided in the media as a "Republican power grab". That hasn't stopped the Dem supermajority from loading themselves onto busses and riding out to "red" states to protest any allegation of gerrymandering in places which elect reps that their constituency back in CA hate.
From the perspective of Koch-funded libertarians, the key distinction isn't "left vs. right." It's not even "Democrat vs. Republican." It's "beneficial to our sugar daddy Charles Koch vs. harmful to our sugar daddy Charles Koch."
That's why they want Joe Biden in the White House. Not because Biden is "liberal," but because his inability to enforce a national border means Mr. Koch can import more cheap Mexican labor. Thus making his inherited fortune grow even larger.
#VoteDemocratToHelpCharlesKoch
#(EvenThoughThisWasNotTheCaseInThe1980s)
ML posted a good article on the transition of Koch here.
https://americanmind.org/features/new-koch/
I have to say, boaf sides are exactly equal is the laziest form of journalism or political analysis, and reason has fallen into it. They weren’t both sides in 2016 or 2020. They still slant their bias. They pull these articles out when their preference is shown to be wrong largely as an excuse for being wrong.
Ignorint government censorship under the guise of private companies. Ignorinf the politicization of federal agencies. “Reluctantly” voting for Biden in 2020 without reading his campaign website. Pushing every wrong media narrative.
It never fails with the politically ignorant. When wrong scream both sides. Mike does it. Sarc does it. Reason does it all the time. It is intellectual laziness.
Thanks. New Koch has one rhetoric point right: "capitalism". It's a derogatory Marxist term, so why use it? Constructed as other "-isms" are, it means "rule by capital". The correct term for what non-marxists want to say by it is "free enterprise".
Or basically, freedom.
Not just Koch. Reason reliably lines up with more freedom for big corporations. Big high tech companies who want to import cheaper labor. Big agricultural companies who want to import cheap labor. Big pharmaceutical companies who want to push daily COVID testing and monthly booster shots. Big gun companies who don't want to be held liable for misuse of their products. Big car companies who don't want restrictive government edicts. Follow the money.
“Big gun companies who don’t want to be held liable for misuse of their products.”
You forgot to mention holding car companies, alcoholic beverage makers, knife/baseball bat/pipe makers, etc, liable for misuse of their assault weapon products.
And why aren’t you demanding common sense laws to control assault fists and assault feet?
Are you familiar with agency?
Yeah, the juxtaposition of "Big pharmaceutical companies who want to push daily COVID testing and monthly booster shots." and "Big gun companies who don’t want to be held liable for misuse of their products." could not be more stark. If you really think firearm violence is some form of social contagion that's going to kill more people than COVID, don't buy a gun. No one is mandating that you have to.
When Standard Oil was attacked and dissected by the government in the guise of anti-trust, it was 1/10th the size of the shoe industry in the US.
Compared to other industries, there are no big gun companies.
With all the furor from people whose true objective is to make use of force the exclusive realm of the State (because that's always led to freedom?) over not being able to sue gun makers for the deliberate misuse of their products, I've never head any call for manufacturers of any other product being held liable for the deliberate misuse of whatever they happen to sell. Has there ever been an attempt to sue jack Daniels or Ford over drunk driving? Or suing the truck rental companies whose vehicles were used to deliver the 1993 WTC and OKC Federal building bombs? Or holding GM liable for incidents in which Buicks/Cadillacs have been driven through farmers' markets with devastating results by elderly drivers who were almost as far gone as Biden and Feinstein?
In case you hadn't noticed, the Big Pharma companies looking for immunity from liability if their Covid shots turn out to be less than safe have cozied up to Biden and the Dems a lot more than they have to any of the "freedom Caucus" semi-libertarian Legislators; now that Walensky is out at the CDC, look for her to be lobbying on behalf of Pfizer within the next 9-12 months.
Parody is obsolete: Exhibit #288
Really wish the media gave Vice President Kamala Harris more coverage & credit for her tremendous leadership. Yesterday, VP Harris showed up to Brittney Griner’s first game since being wrongfully detained in Russia & we aren’t hearing enough about it.
It's so difficult to get positive media coverage when you're a Democrat. She attended a WNBA game! What more does she need to do, cure cancer?! 🙁
I’ve never seen such a thread filled with so much blatant knob slobbering .
Gross.
And ironically it was *about* Kamala and not *by* Kamala.
You have to admire the courage and resilience shown by the vice president, though. She had the actual fortitude to sit through a WNBA game, which is a daunting task far beyond the capacity of most Americans. It took heroic willpower for her to undertake this vital mission.
No one said she stayed awake through the whole game.
I can’t even sit through the WNBA highlight on SportsCenter.
Womens Beach Volleyball is a great sport though. So that proves I an not sexist, Sandy (formerly OBL). Now take it back please.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
I figured you more of a fan of little league and pee wee football.
Wait until those women beach volleyball players have a 'big package' in that skimpy bikini bottom! See how long you watch beach volleyball then.
I love that over the last few years the WNBA has given up on any marketing strategy and now it's all just yelling at people for not watching.
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1660084745701584897?t=ZJyX5E0pPLpLCm4CMzZP7A&s=19
After Brittney Griner played in her first WNBA game last night since coming home from prison in Russia, Phoenix Mercury head coach Vanessa Nygaard was angry Los Angeles didn’t sellout the arena for her return:
“How was it not a sellout??”
[Video]
Not enough trans players.
Juwanna Mann will be the MVP of the WNBA before long. Just watch.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247444/
A star basketball player decides to dress up as a woman and join the women’s professional basketball league when his on-court antics get him suspended.
That's one of those movies we're supposed to pretend never existed
Isn't Griner *already* Juwanna Mann?
Just realized that this concept makes "Blades of Glory" obsolete.
Hey don't knock the audience at Phoenix Mercury games. I know them both and they're wonderful people.
Stupid people are easily entertained. It takes a bit more to entertain an intelligent person.
Harris is also visiting Silicon Valley this week, to bask in the glow of the reflected dollars from the CHIPs Act, at a friendly audience of leftist engineers who are on the receiving end of the loot.
After sitting through Viktor Bout's most recent arms deal, sitting through Griner's WNBA game was the least she could do. Both sides.
As a wise man once said;
LEFT + RIGHT = ZERO
I am Wise Man from Beyond the Grave… From Beyond Space, Time, and All Caps and Bolded Letters… And…
I AM PUTTING YOU ON MY LIST!!!
(On the Naughty, Not Nice, side of the ledger, if you must ask!)
I’m not sure ‘wise’ is the word you’re looking for.
'Dead' will do fine.
Only in Z mod a trillion trillion, where left = negative a trillion trillion, and right = 0.
My view is that the right is effectively worthless, and the left's answer to that is to try as hard as they can to be infinitely worse than worthless. To their "credit," they usually pull it off.
The problem laymen run into is trying to shoehorn capitalism into the left-right spectrum.
Uber-Capitalists Warren Buffett and Soros donate to and support Democrats yet are considered leftists by your average Joe the Plumber type. Some progs would wrongly consider both right-wing because they are wealthy capitalists.
Academics get it correct where Birchers fail of course. Democracy and egalitarianism (such as voting rights) are leftish and control by a select few (monarchy, fascism, theocracy) are on the right side of the spectrum.
Left and right are just two different power pigs wearing the exact same shade of shady lipstick! The lipstick, in this case, is "My Tribe Pure Ass the Driven Snow; Your Tribe EVIL! All Power to MEEEE and MY Tribe!"
You Soros dick-riding commies spend your every waking hour trying to create a system of global technocratic neo-feudalism (socialism for the super-rich and crumbs for everyone else).
You try and pretend that it's just democracy and capitalism, but it's neither, it's sham-ocracy (even the votes are rigged now) and corrupt crony capitalism of the sort that Joe Biden has mastered.
None of are fooled by any of your bullshit.
"...(even the votes are rigged now)..."
All must bow and pray to the Orange God we've made, and Bemoan His Stolen Erections! Queen Stormy Daniels does it ESPECIALLY well, so follow Her Example!
Okay! Mikey is here to represent the MAGA Neo-Fascist Protectionist Aryan-Rule faction.
Of course he has no opinion on the article. He just knows other type people are evil and shouldn't get to vote. In fact, voting is stupid to Trump-tards.
I know the secret MAGA handshake Mikey.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. Turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
You couldn't have an honest debate about anything if your very life depended on it.
Real democracy is you show up at your polling place on election day, show your proof of residence, and you vote one time.
It's not asshole mules like you sneaking in the back door at 3 on the morning with boxfuls of harvested and fraudulent votes.
"You couldn’t have an honest debate about anything if your very life depended on it..."
Prett sure this is true. The entire time turd has been posting here, he never once engaged in an honest exchange. Lying is like breathing for turd; simply required for his existence.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
"Uber-Capitalists Warren Buffett and Soros donate to and support Democrats yet are considered leftists by your average Joe the Plumber type."
We're using former group appellations because we haven't invented new ones yet.
The Democrats used to be associated with the paleo-left, liberalism and the working class, but have long since abandoned those to represent entrenched establishment bureaucracy, WASP culture, the clerisy and an emerging globalist/corporatist aristocracy and its interests.
Republicans used to be associated with the Better Business Bureau types, laissez-faire economics, conservative social values and the military-industrial-complex. And the upper echelons of the party still are.
However, as the Democratic Party abandoned the working class and liberalism for corporatist aristocracy, they were brought to the Republicans by Trump.
So we now have a Democratic Party that doesn't represent its old constituencies and in many cases is actively trying to harm them, and a schizophrenic Republican Party representing in some ways opposing constituencies.
But because the new Democrats continue to use 'left' as their identity I will regard them as such, despite personally placing as center-left libertarian on most of those silly political compass tests.
And shrike is wrong there. Soros uses money to demand his leftist goals through the DNC.
And what are the "leftist" goals of Soros?
Pushing back against rabid cops and overzealous prosecutors? For my 16 years here that has been a libertarian supported issue.
Legalize drugs? SAME. Libertarian.
Democracy over authoritarian? Again more libertarian.
Anti-War and anti-surveillaince state? Again Soros is libertarian.
Libertarians should embrace Soros since his policies are libertarian.
Oh wait - you're a conservative. So that explains it.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. Turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
"Democracy over authoritarian?
Anti-War and anti-surveillaince state?"
For a guy you purport is against those things, he's sure spent a lot of money doing the exact opposite. Propping up a corrupt bureaucracies, deliberately inflaming racial and cultural tensions, harrassing the working class, funding rioters to burn down their homes and businesses, practicing political lawfare through purchasing and placing politicians, judges and DA's.
Typical of you and your ilk, Shrike, Soros is a conman. He claims he's in favor of all sorts of wonderful things, but his actions and money tell a very different story. By his actions the man is an evil autocrat who wants to see the world burn.
Soros openly supports the Ukraine war.
Shrike is a serial gaslighter.
https://www.indianarrative.com/world-news/controversial-global-financier-george-soros-jumps-in-the-fray-slams-russia-and-asks-world-to-support-ukraine-153675.html
Supports Ukraine self-rule?
Of course. Only you Kremlin and Putin fans don't.
You also support the child pornography industry. Care to expound on that?
I'm no serial gaslighter asshole. You guys are just too busy lighting each others farts in the name of Trump to think for yourselves.
All lies. And Soros never gave a dime to BLM like wingnut.com claims.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/18/facebook-posts/soros-alleged-support-black-lives-matter-resurges-/
And his fight against the Drug War is "inflaming racial tension"? You are quite the liar.
I didn’t mention the BLM organization itself, I said “funding rioters to burn down their homes and businesses”.
You are trying to move the goalposts by limiting the scope to BLM itself and not the associate organizations involved in the riots.
(And Politico “factchecking” Soros is like Reason factchecking Koch. Who do you think writes their paychecks? You always imagine your so tricky, Shrike.)
From your own link:
The Washington Times used tax filings for the Soros’ grant-making network, Open Society Foundations, to assert that Soros fueled a slew of protests in Ferguson that erupted after Brown’s death in 2014…
There’s a big caveat: the latter article referred to contributions to the “Black Lives Matter movement.” That’s distinct from the organization itself. (It also folded in other grants from liberal sources.)
An Open Society Foundations spokesperson told PolitiFact that the coverage “conflated a range of investments over a span of time as an immediate response to the deaths of Michael Brown Jr. and Freddie Gray.”
As your “factcheck” shows, Soros funded the protests and their rioters directly.
Always read Buttplug links, folks, because he never does, and they almost always refute him.
"And his fight against the Drug War is “inflaming racial tension”?"
I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. You are quite the liar.
Also, he's doing fuck all on that front. Another say one thing, do the opposite scam.
He’s a neo Marxist. Just like you. And like you, he supports letting pedophiles (like you) run wild and unobstructed.
George Soros should be executed as a traitor, along with his evil pups. As do you. So why don’t you save everyone the trouble, and kill yourself? Deep down you know I’m right.
I still don't get how people don't realize soros is literally a nazi
Where does someone who wants everyone who is legally entitled to vote, to be able to do so, but who also wants to ensure that everyone who is voting is indeed legally entitled to do so, is recording their own vote and only their own vote, is only voting once, and is voting in the proper place (when districting matters). Regardless of race, color, creed, orientation, gender, sex, etc. And further, that every legally cast vote is counted, counted once and only once, and that the counting process is transparent, fair, and honest, and constructed so as to minimize the chances of manipulation by commission or omission.
You never finished your first sentence.
However, the overall question is clear – why don’t we have free and fair elections? The answer is simple – because our Federal government (and State governments) are in direct violation of our Constitution by failure to require them as stipulated. Article IV Section 4 is the only place in our Constitution where the word “guarantee” is used. It makes plain that the Federal government must guarantee “a Republican form of government.” That means free and fair elections. The only possible way to meet that guarantee is for the Federal government to reject any election results for which the States do not swiftly and willingly provide ironclad proof of legitimacy (i.e. the primary burden of proof lies with the States to PROVE legitimacy, not on We the People to catch them cheating). This differs from virtually everything else in our Constitution and laws because it is a CONTRACTUAL ISSUE. The only legitimacy of our government stems from free and fair election – therefore, failure to prove the elections legitimate voids the Constitution, rendering that administration illegitimate.
This is quite clear to my 10 year old neighbor. However, since it requires “reason” to admit what is plainly stated, no Democrat will ever acknowledge it.
Huh? With a secret voting system, how is a state supposed to ever provide “ironclad proof” beyond the attestation of the state’s election oversight official(s) that they know of no significant fraud?
I would really like to see all the MAGA stolen election believers emerge from their basements and volunteer as poll workers.
It isnt secret you fucking retard. States are required to keep ballot envelopes, they do not. Pennsylvania as an example destroyed envelopes against state law.
The state knows everyone who voted and then seek to destroy voter trails.
You’re not actually this stupid, which is why people say you are disingenuous.
Just saying.
I will argue he is that stupid.
I don’t have a hard time believing that.
Everything you say is reasonable, that would make you a normal person. But there’s a possible subtext where you may be implying we have significant problems with votes not being counted correctly. That could be a tell you are in the MAGA “the election was stolen” camp but playing it down. Do you believe the last Presidential election was stolen from Donald J. Trump?
Reminder. Mike can call everyone MAGA but don't dare call him a leftist despite all the evidence.
That could be a tell you are in the MAGA “the election was stolen” camp but playing it down.
The Liarson “one drop rule”.
Nazi PROJECTION 101; point & case right here.
"Why do we refer to both Milton Friedman (a Jewish, pro-capitalist pacifist) and Adolf Hitler (an anti-Semitic, anti-capitalist militarist) as 'right wing'
Nazis are your right-wing brethren, pal. See article.
You will never filibuster that fact out of general use.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Nazis were left wing - the acronym stood for the German National Democratic Socialist party, the spiritual progenitors of our modern Democrat (Socialist) party, whose published party platform aligns greatly with that earlier party.
^^^ EXACTLY ^^^ Well said.
Only an idiot believes that socialism was the defining characteristic of NAZIism. Genocide is not "to each according to their needs".
That is why this article and all others in media/academics correctly refer to NAZIs as right-wing.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. Turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Further, turd is an ignoramus, totally lacking in knowledge as is demonstrated just above. turd ‘learned’ what he knows from Parade Magazine.
And within "to each according to their needs" lies the socialist doctrine which led to the genocide.
After the socialist economy failed to sustain itself --- 'Each' needed to kill those 'icky' people to maintain their Zero-Sum supplies. You would be very wise to LEARN a bit about the history of the German Nazi party before spouting your BS.
And why was it Zero-Sum supplies? Because Gov-Guns don't make sh*t!!! Guns are only used to conquer 'others' and consume thus Zero-Sum supplies. (i.e. "armed-theft" is not a sustainable system).
You're an idiot.
Lefties never met a mouth they didn't want to feed with tax money.
There you go; still pretending Gov-Guns can make sh*t.
Genocide is a hallmark of the left, not the right. Genocide is of you Shrike. So is pedophilia.
Stupidocide is a hallmark of Elmer Fudd the Pudd who licks his own CUDD err CHUDD. Keep bloviating.
Genocide is a hallmark of authoritarians, doesn't matter what flavor they are.
Guffaw! Genocide is right wing but not left wing. Holy crap, Buttface is stupid.
Time to haul out the old Robert Heinlein/Lazarus Long quote:
“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.“
Correct. That’s why the top left corner of the political compass (depending on which one you look at) is Authoritarian - Collectivist vs. the bottom right corner being Libertarian - Individualist.
I wonder which one a group of people who believed the government should seize the capital and means of production from an entire race of people belong in.
"You will never filibuster that fact out of general use."
Just like the "sky is falling down"/"the weather is changing" cries of leftard environmental chicken-little-sh*t????
Even though both are proven beyond any doubt to be 100% lies... They're ?FACTS?..... Yep; that's how the left works.
Adolf Hitler (an anti-Semitic, anti-capitalist militarist) as 'right wing'
Have you written the authors to explain that your opinion is the correct one?
Keep in mind that turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar. If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental. turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Shrike's seen dozens of articles written by actual Nazis like Goebbels or Bormann demonstrating that his opinions and values were almost identical to theirs.
At this point he's just trolling.
Pretty sure turd is just plain that stupid; trolling assumes intent.
Pretty sure Sevo and ML are butt fucking each other. At least mentally.
Eww, Buttplug's shipping us, Sevo. The fucking pervert. Doesn't he know we're not preteens?
No need; The premise was 'authored' by ignorant dipsh*ts like yourself. No matter how blatantly obvious it is; the BS [WE] gangsters RULE narrative must always be the 'scientific' consensus.
Propaganda = How to turn lies into truth.
"Nazis are your right-wing brethren, pal. See article."
This one, Shrike?
Why We Are Socialists - Joseph Goebbels
Corporatist eugenicists with a hatred of Christianity and the
Israelthe Joos, as well as being strong supporters of abortion, infanticide, gun control, and an early form of critical race theory. I mean that sounds exactly like you.Besides, weren't you just shilling for George Soros, one of the world's last living actual Nazi party members, above?
You hate classic liberalism.
But most theocratic conservatives do.
You can call names all you like, but those two citations conclusively prove you're a liar.
It's rare to see a comment that so encapsulates someone's inability to provide an actual rebuttal. Well done.
We don’t. Only brain dead moron leftists (shown on the Political Compass as being to the left because you’re generally collectivist) think that a National Socialist who was actively authoritarian, collectivized wide swaths of Europe as being unclean, and seized the means of production to further the interest of the state call him “far-right”. Because you fascist have tried to distance yourselves from your German cousins for almost 100 years now.
Capitalism simply describes the state of affairs where everyone has equal opportunity to make their own economic decisions - i.e. "economic liberty."
There are in reality only two primary political positions. One is Liberty (best laid out by Classical Liberalism). Equal rights; small government dedicated to PROTECTING, not violating, those rights; low taxes; few but necessary regulations and laws (again principally to protect individual rights). Everything else is simply flavors, varieties, degrees of abusiveness and totalitarianism.
All the ills attributed to Capitalism are nonsense. Liberty cannot "fail." It may not yield the result YOU want, but that's only because someone else wanted something different than you did. The real ills are when government fails to execute it's proper role in Capitalism:
- Allows monopolistic practices
- Does not properly and promptly punish and remedy fraud, abuse, intimidation, theft, coercion, and other abuses.
"Right" and "Left" are political terms, and so are in some sense meaningless. However, in modern American politics, "right" is an imperfect champion of Liberty and our Constitution; while "Left" is now almost perfectly aligned with abusive totalitarianism.
Since Capitalism is economic Liberty, it is therefore right wing. This should be rather apparent given that for decades Leftists have sworn to "abolish Capitalism."
Since Capitalism is economic Liberty, it is therefore right wing.
So Warren Buffett and George Soros and Bill Gates and others like them are "right wing"?
Don't forget that turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
The fake Galt is running from the question of course.
But at least Fake Galt didn't copy/paste gibberish like you do, you pathetic splooge mopping moron.
turd, the pederast, lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. Turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
He also doesn’t post child porn links here. You do.
lol.. Do you believe Warren Buffett, George Soros and Bill Gates lobby for Economic Liberty???
Apparently benefitting from capitalism in order to turn around and fight against capitalism while engaging in things like crony capitalism to prevent competitors from taking your slice of the capitalistic pie are what SPBP thinks amount to someone who loves and fights for capitalism.
It helps that he’s incredibly incredibly stupid.
You're entirely too kind; turd isn't anywhere near your standard.
'All the ills attributed to Capitalism are nonsense. Liberty cannot “fail.” It may not yield the result YOU want, but that’s only because someone else wanted something different than you did.'
But if someone else is allowed to want things that contradict my wants, then liberty must be abolished.
Correct, Mr Galt. I would make the generalization that collectivism is left wing - socialism in its many forms - and individualism is right wing. Each can be militaristic, but collectivists are much worse at protecting individual rights.
Hahahahahahahahaha
Goddamn you are stupid.
Hahahahahahahahaha
That's why some people - most notably, the Political Compass lot - have two axes, economic left and right - where capitalism is unquestionably on the right side and socialism ditto on the left - and authoritarian/libertarian north and south. Owenite socialists are left, towards rhe bottom, while socialist parties nowadays are almost all top left. etc. etc.
a.k.a the Nolan Chart. Where the axes are individual liberty and economic liberty.
And the 4 corners are liberal, conservative, libertarian and authoritarian. And most people really are somewhere in the middle.
Shh. The obnoxiously arrogant POS might be confused. Or just stupid.
And democrats, depending on faction range from lawful evil (Pelosi and her ilk) to chaotic evil (Bernie Sanders, Antifa, etc.) on the alignment chart.
Communism is also "control by a select few," just a different select few.
Yes, I'm sure life as a contemporary "journalister" is hard when people and ideas don't readily fit into whatever categories the Elite force you to use.
That’s hard for a lot of ideologues.
Cite?
How can a libertarian publication write an article about the left-right political spectrum and NOT mention David Nolan and his legendary Nolan Chart?
Because Nolan's chart is rotated 90 degrees. "Left" is authoritarianism / totalitarianism / abusive government; "Right" is Liberty.
You're half right and half wrong - I'll fix your comment for you. Left *AND* Right are "authoritarianism / totalitarianism / abusive government".
You should learn what words mean rather than making up meanings.
Get woke! Like in the characters on the other side of the looking glass, SJWs can use words to mean anything they wish.
The Nolan chart is not rotated. There are left-anarchists, and right-authoritarians such as Richard Nixon and the government of Singapore. But I'd change the axes. Nolan apparently used "socially conservative/liberal" and "economically conservative/liberal", but that ignores a whole lot of other variables, which are often more important.
Any 2D chart is a compromise between accuracy and comprehensibility. There are at least 6 different and independent issues that could be used as an axes in a political spectrum, but we can neither draw nor understand a 6D figure. To get something that's readily created and viewed on a screen or printed page, we have to collapse all those different axes into two. This is what I think is the best compromise to cover the significant factions in the USA at this time:
For the horizontal axis, I use something Jerry Pournelle suggested several decades ago: belief in "Social Engineering". Leftists think they can change people and society by decree (or for the left-anarchists, by the underwear gnome's "step 2: ???"). Conservatives don't expect people to change. So put all those who think people will magically change on the left - including Marxists and anarchists who claim that merely eliminating the profit motive will make people good, Communist believers in things like "The New Soviet Man", Nazis (who were more successful than most ideologies in transforming men - into death camp guards and other ghouls), Progressives (not quite as far left), and Christians when they believe your behavior will permanently change when you are born-again. On the moderate right are the conservatives who figure that at best efforts to transform humankind will fail, and at worst turn men and women into monsters, and beyond them the reactionaries who want to return to a mostly mythical past where everyone knew their place, or people not only worshipped at the Established Church, but _believed_ in it.
The vertical axis is freedom versus authoritarianism: "socially conservative/liberal" and "economically conservative/liberal" compressed into one axis, because if you deny freedom on one of those axes, you deny freedom - and ultimately, you deny both economic and social freedom. For example, the Soviet Constitution guaranteed freedom of the press, but all the printing presses, ink and paper belonged to the state. It guaranteed freedom of thought, but if they realized you thought wrong, you were unemployed and starving. If you follow Nolan, freedom is at the top: the old-time left-anarchists who thought they could eliminate the market economy and people would magically turn into angels and work everything out at the top left, J.S. Mills liberals at the top center, and hardcore survivalists at the top right. Communists and fascists are in the bottom right, both pretending that government can control everything and thus transform humankind, and actually creating mass death and monsters - the biggest difference is that sometimes fascists will claim their monsters. Socialists are a not quite that far into the bottom-left corner, but socialist systems are always in danger of sliding right down to anywhere on the bottom. Richard Nixon was low (but not as low as socialists such as the British Labour Party) and to the right, and some of his men were all the way into the bottom-right corner. Congressmen often approach somewhere on the bottom regardless of their claimed political positions - because whenever possible they vote for their own interests (a powerful government means more power and more "campaign contributions" for them).
While I tend to agree that a simple left-right spectrum is just unhelpful due to parties largely being tribes, I also think it is unhelpful thinking about individuals on any spectrum.
Individuals aren't a point on an axis (or even two axes, as the libertarian political graph attempts). Our political views are a ranked list of values that represent multiple tradeoffs. Is a free market more important to you than Gay Rights? Is a war more important than prevailing wages? Is medical freedom more important than national security?
Politics seem tribal because that is the only way you can affect political outcomes. If you want to achieve any political outcome, you must look at your ranked list of "what's important" and ally yourself with the people who seem most likely to be similar to your list.
No doubt, I share a lot of axiomatic principles with many of the "Democrat-Tribe-Aligned" people here. Of all the issues in the political realm, abortion is probably the only place where we fundamentally disagree. The problem is our relative rankings of value. Left-leaners made it clear during the pandemic that the economic and medical freedoms are less important than pushing back against tariffs and anti-immigration.
I'm not here to argue the validity of those points, but to point out how difference in rankings leads to separation. Jo Jorgenson's wing of the LP is no longer in power because the issues around George Floyd were more important to them than the issues around Lockdown and Mandates. And the fact that the MC today views wars, COVID State, and the infiltration of Marxism at all levels of authority as bigger threats than racism, or anti-immigration, is why they are leading the LP.
Trying to fit those ordered lists of preference into one or even two Axes is a fool's errand. In fact it is usually used by fools to demonize others (as the authors note above). Rather than explain why Issue A should be ranked higher on everyone's list, people would rather say "You people are just like those other bad people!".
I'll note that since we are discussing political spectrums, this only becomes so critical because of all the things we have rendered to the Political arena. We care about schools because governments pay for them. And we care nationwide because the federal government meddles at the highest levels. We care about banks because the government bails them out and is involved in almost every decision they make.
100 years ago, when the government was 1/2 the size it is today, we may have been able to more clearly render complicated ranked lists into a simple left-right spectrum. But we have forced too many dimensions of political questions into the equation, and so it is almost impossible to plot a solution, just as it is almost impossible to plot a line with hundreds of variables.
“because governments pay for them” …that day the people starting thinking Gov-Guns could make sh*t. And introduced an enslaved society by its Gun-Force (tool usage) effects.
Guns don’t make or pay for sh*t.
The only tool in 'governments' toolbox is a monopoly of Gun-Force.
Their only asset to a fair and free society is to ensure they aren’t used criminally (ensuring Liberty and Justice for all).
What to do when the very ‘Guns’ put in charge of ensuring Liberty and Justice *turn* and start working for criminal minds.
Political spectrums are quite frankly useless. A spectrum implies a center where there is none. Politics is an agreement among people. Nothing more. There is no perfect agreement nor contract. People who claim to be the center are just advocating their political beliefs.
Humans will always firm groups. Groups and cooperation is inherently beneficial. One group may grow against another group and assume more power. That is literal evolution through social interaction.
All ideologies can lead to authoritarianism. Even libertarianism. A pure libertarian ideal would force those who disagree with those views to accept their premises, as an example.
This is why I'm more of a federalist than a pure ideologue. Push power as close as possible to the individual. Invert the current power structure where cities and states have more power than federal or global. Allow people to travel to the situation they best agree with. Let the cream rise. Allow competition. This can only be done when we don't have a one rule for everyone. Protect rights as best as possible, but admit sometimes rights conflict with each other (drugs and crime as an example).
The left doesn't want the above. They want uniformity of power and regulations. That is why they are generally increasing the federal government and are globalist. See soros and Buffet. They want a concentration of power.
And most of all we need to lose the belief that freedom means being provided for. Too often the left talks about freedom through a lens of government providing care. Freedom includes the freedom to fail. Charities can be set up as safety nets. Governmenr force should not be involved.
"A pure libertarian ideal would force those who disagree with those views to accept their premises, as an example."
Nope. Those who disagree would simply be allowed to disagree. No force involved.
Right. Those people would be free to go collect in an enclave where they voluntarily submit to whatever whims they collectively agree upon, just as a Penitente freely whips himself to absolve his sins. If the argument is that it is totalitarian force to prevent someone from forcing their views on people, then you have streined "totalitarianism" to mean anything and all things. We are in a totalitarian system today because we are "forced" to accept the balance of rules and freedom we have today.
Again you are missing the issue that some force is required to force everyone to accept all freedom. Pure ideals are not possible without a totality of people believing the same. As soon as an argument or disagreement happens some type of deciding body is required. That is a form of force. This is what ideologues miss.
Another example. There is a large contingent of people who believe private property is not a right. How does a pure idealistic libertarian no force entity absolve the protection of property rights? Through some form of force. You are disallowing the belief by some that theft is a natural right. It is not as clean as you want it to be.
Another example is one you have literally argued prior about homeless in public spaces. The homeless believe they can usurp public goods without push back. In a pure libertarian society who is to deny them that right?
"Again you are missing the issue that some force is required to force everyone to accept all freedom"
Again, this seems to define "Totalitarianism" as "applying any force". Totalitarianism means rendering all decisions to the state. That is the definition. So a world where the only "Authorized" force is retaliatory in nature is not totalitarian. Almost all decisions in a libertarian society are rendered to individuals and the associations they freely make with each other. And of course, libertarians disagree on whether this requires complete anarchy or some minarchy, but the idea that this is a totalitarian system just makes the term devoid of any definition.
"You are disallowing the belief by some that theft is a natural right. It is not as clean as you want it to be."
Well I don't disallow that belief at all. There is no doubt in my mind that many people will forever believe themselves just in initiating force on others. We live in that society today. People have varied differences in how much initiation of force ought to be authorized. And if you disagree with that, tough shit, you are stuck. Does that mean we currently live in a Totalitarian Regime, because Marxists don't believe the government goes far enough, and I believe it goes to far? I argue no.
Again, this all seems to conflate "Totalitarian" with "A Society that enforces its political philosophy." And I just don't think it is useful as a definition, since every society except a pacifist anarchy would meet that definition.
No. Totalitarianism isn’t any force, it is all force. A total. It is a scale leaning near the end of total control.
Look, not everyone will agree. The moment a rule is set up it is an implementation of some force, agreed to or not.
If your rule is NAP and private property you will have those who disagree with you. A force has been set up to regulate between two belief systems. It can be extremely lax and maximize liberty, as I stated, but it does limit someone else’s view of liberty.
Some believe in total freedom down to anarchist principles of strongest wins. Others believe in a shared collective devoid of personal property rights.
When you argue from idealism it requires discounting those that disagree with you. Those who believe on shared property disagree with your NAP and private property. An idealist libertarian position on private property disagrees with their notions. So it requires force. Youre limiting other beliefs.
This is why idealism is bad in all thing and all of society requires some agreed to set of rules..
This is why so many confuse anarchism with libertarianism.
Pure idealism is always bad.
Please don't misconstrued this point by claiming any force is totalitarian. Because I can make the same comment the other way that all freedom is anarchism.
And I will say this. The goal of libertarianism should be to maximize freedom but understand it can not be pure. It just doesn't work unless everyone already agrees with you.
Another quick example removing all government from the equation in a purse system. You own a house. You get into an argument with a neighbor. He buys up all the land around your house and puts bears in trunks around your house (credit jeff). He never invades your property but as he owns all the property around you, you stepping onto his property is a violation of his property rights. He has disallowed an exit from your property, but there is no force disallowing this conclusion. Are you then forced to essentially die inside your house or violate the NAP to exit? As soon as you say the person in the house has a tight to cross his neighbors land, you've now limited the pure rights of the other land owner. Purity does not work.
But some sort of system where people voluntarily accept rights of easement is not the same as totalitarianism, where ALL decisions are rendered to the state.
Suffice it to say, there are plenty of libertarian ways to solve for your scenario with respect for property rights and voluntary contract. And maybe some time we can have that discussion. But for this conversation, it is enough to point out that isn't the same as Totalitarianism.
Your rights of easement is a limitation on someone's private property. Again. This is why idealism even in libertarianism doesn't work. Youre admitting it here. You've established an agreed to limitation.
Libertarianism isn’t the same as anarchy. There’s still laws and property rights, and courts to help rule on issues of civil disagreement.
Calling a libertarian government with the smallest amount of government intervention possible identical to totalitarianism is absurd.
Aggressive versus Defensive use of Gun-Force. Which in more definitive words; Individual Rights have to be 'inherent' (self-definitive) not 'entitlement' to others property/self and the defense of those 'rights' must be countered by those who try using Gun-Force to take them away.
Enter the most prominent difference between the left(Aggressive/Progressive Gun-Force) and right(defensive) political alignment.
Simply not true. Look at how libertarians are against contractual arrangements such as HOAs. They are against any form of coercive power even if done so willingly. We see this all the time from the LP. Believing an ideal as pure always leads to some form of authority or disallowing choice.
People should be free to create communes as long as freedom to travel is maintained. To do so requires some form of force. If a commune is caught disallowing travel, what is the libertarian solution says force?
"Look at how libertarians are against contractual arrangements such as HOAs."
Libertarians are generally not against contractual arrangements such as HOAs. Indeed, most theorists believe that a libertarian society would be arranged in such a manner, with small enclaves very similar to an HOA.
Libertarians distinguish between enforcing a contract and coercion. Coercion is the initiation of force, while enforcing a contract is retaliation for force already initiated (breaking the contract).
Now you can argue that such a distinction doesn't exist- that even self defense is a form of coercion, but that is not a Libertarian view. And no one would say a world where no one is allowed to do ANY force, including self defense, would be totalitarian.
So you agree contract enforcement is a valid implementation of liberty. What about when someone is coerced into a contract? In your puritan ideal of liberty is coercion of contracts valid?
And you also admit force is valid in some faces, meaning society does develop a set of rules which eliminates some choices from those who disagree.
That is all I am getting at. There is no system that does not require some type of enforcement during disagreement of liberty. Pure idealism disallows this and will always lead to some mechanism to restrict some viewpoints, even in libertarianism. Only in a system of no disagreement can a pure ideology exist without some force of compromise or set of limits.
"Only in a system of no disagreement can a pure ideology exist without some force of compromise or set of limits."
Right but that doesn't make it totalitarian.
Libertarianism is the ordering of society via the Non-Aggression Principle/Pact. Now you can accept that principle or not. If you accept that principle, then it is logically possible to draw a distinction between what is Aggression (i.e. the initiation of force) and what is not (e.g. free association, voluntary contract, self defense).
Under such a system, a "Coerced Contract" would be invalid, and therefore any attempt to enforce it would be illegitimate. Obviously, the complicated part is discerning when a contract was coerced, and when it was not. To many marxists and socialists "You having something I want but I don't want to pay for" is coercion. But not a libertarian. We accept that libertarianism may mean one person has a lot of "Negotiating leverage" in a situation, despite being free of force. And as long as no threat of force is involved, that is just the way things will be.
And I would also note that in a libertarian society there will still be disagreements over enforcement. Libertarianism tells us what is valid vs invalid use of force. But what to do about invalid force is another question.
You've now done this twice overt. I'm not calling single rules totalitarian. I'm stating in ideal system requires everyone to agree at the outset. Libertatianism should work towards maximizing liberty, but it can not be done to satisfy all people. Of you agree with this simple concept you dont believe in pure libertarianism of total freedoms. As soon as a single rule is set, there is a limitation on choices.
In America, the bottom line is that we have a democrat party hat is controlled by neo Marxists, and a Republican Party with far too many opportunists that are hard to purge because the alternative to these individuals are replacements from the democrats. So the only solution is to eliminate the core problem of Marxism, which requires the destruction of the democrat party and their complete removal from government as a first step. Something I say many times daily here.
Only than can trash like Romney, McConnell, Murkowski, etc. be removed without risk of worsening things. There really is no disputing this.
I would argue that what you’ve been describing is more Authoritarianism than Totalitarianism.
In a pure libertarian society where everyone agreed on property rights, etc you’d have some form of anarchy. But since we live in the real world, minarchy is the best we can hope for, and that will require some form of Authority to which everyone would have to surrender some power.
My argument is strictly any type of idealism leads to conflict and it will never be achieved outright. It is a requirement on everyone believing, thinking and acting in the same manner.
There has to be recognition of this even from libertarians.
Too many argue utilizing the nirvana fallacy or pushing good being the enemy of perfect. It is one of the primary reasons people don't support the viewpoints of libertarianism.
"My argument is strictly any type of idealism leads to conflict and it will never be achieved outright."
Strictly any place with 2+ people is going to lead to conflict. This is not a unique attribute of "idealism". It is an attribute of people having different wants and needs, and limited resources to fulfill them.
"Strictly any place with 2+ people is going to lead to conflict. This is not a unique attribute of “idealism”. It is an attribute of people having different wants and needs, and limited resources to fulfill them."
To be clear, actual "needs" are extremely limited, tend to be near universal and are easily supplied by charity. The dishonest conflation of "needs" with "wants" leads lefty shits like Tony to claim the government is required to meet ("wants" and) "needs".
Aside from that, agreed; our "wants" are as diverse as the number of individuals, which defines the base failure of planned economies; you simply cannot plan an economy where I might value a math computer app while someone else values an introduction to Hegle.
Let's get specific:
I voted R once in my life; a Mayoral candidate in SF. A businessman known to me and who intended to (attempt) to run SF as an operation subject to economic rules (he lost)
I did not vote for Trump in 2016 since (as a loose cannon) it wasn't clear whether he was an improvement on the hag.
Didn't take long to see he was indeed and continued to be; if he runs again, he'll get my vote (worthless as it is in CA) not because of any 'tribal' connection to the Rs, but simply because he has been the best POTUS in the last century, and we can hope for more.
TL;DR - The claim of "tribalism" is often mis-applied. If DeVos got nominated as a D, she'd get my vote.
“Look at how libertarians are against contractual arrangements such as HOAs.”
Depends what you mean by “against”. I think HOAs suck, I would not buy into one. Further, I believe most of the people who are really into the HOA stuff, and go looking for violations to act upon, do not carefully compartmentalize their private contract vs. public policy – that is, if given the chance to sit on a city council or zoning board, they would very much like to enforce their vision more broadly using the police.
Having said that, I don’t support passing a law banning HOAs and sending out *my* police to go shut them down. And I think you’d be hard pressed to find a state or national LP supporting that.
The question is how much help the state ought to give them. To me, a person buying into a HOA is analogous to a person entering into a contract to do some BDSM. Should we let people do that? Sure. But if someone ends up calling in the law, I’m strongly inclined to side with the person shouting the safe word and asking to be released from the arrangement. The max I’d be willing to consider for the other side is getting their money back.
So, a jury could look at the incremental value of having a HOA and make the violator pay back some fraction of that. But just like I would not order the BDSM escapee to get their clothes back off and submit, I would not order the violator to take out those pink flamingoes or paint their gutters a compliant color.
But in a libertarian paradise without zoning, and without funds or a desire to live in the center of a 100 acre parcel, would you find value in HOA covenants for ordinary neighborhood lots? Do you really relish the freedom of coming home to find that one neighbor has converted her house into an outdoor rave center and the other has opened a mini pork feed lot?
Absolutely!
You bought that property after due diligence (we hope) and bought it at a price which reflected that knowledge.
The seller was required to discount that possibility, not the buyer.
One of the problems with putting Gov-Guns in charge of being the HOA (zoning/planning) is when the Gov-Guns ARE the business; there are no alternative routes to ‘Justice’.
The inmates will then be running the asylum (there is no checks / balances). Which is the curse of all communist/socialist government ideologies. Google making their own Gov-Gun enforced Google-Justice?? (same idea).
My take is; if one wants control over their neighbors they either need to agreement-contract that with the neighbors before moving in or PAY-UP the money required to own all the properties around them.
Good post Overt! Well done!
"Is medical freedom more important than national security?"
I say bring the soldiers home, so that they can fight the FDA for MY freedoms, instead of fighting for the supposed freedoms of foreigners! For starters, I' like to be able to blow upon a cheap plastic flute, w/o permission! I want "flute freedom" like EVERY OTHER NATION ON THE WHOLE DAMNED PLANET has, for Chrissakes! Freedom from despots at HOME first, please!
To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!
"unhelpful due to parties largely being tribes"
The effects of championing unrestricted "democracy" (i.e. [WE] mob RULES! ideology) instead of upholding the *CONSTITUTIONAL* Republic. Broadly speaking the USA has been conquered by Democrats of the past like Wilson & FDR and etc, etc by [WE] mob RULES [Na]tional So[zi]alists.
Their "democracy" preaching without any Supreme Law respect is exactly why we have "tribes" forming. It's become a King-of-the-Mountain game were no Gun-Force Power is out of reach for the [WE] mob.
Right. In the 80's, Republicans were legit talking about getting rid of the Department of Education. But by 2000, they were greasing the skids for No Child Left Behind.
Unfortunately, this is what the populace wants. NCLB was a direct reaction to competing Democratic planks insisting that all things public education must be federalized. Same with Medicare Part D: it was being proposed by Republicans because the alternative was whatever full on nationalization the Democrats would put up for vote. And let's not forget that when the United States had the choice between McCain and Obama, one of the key issues was reform of the health care system. McCain was offering the mass decentralization of health-care, including busting the tax-advantage of corporate-sponsored plans. Obama proposed the nationalization of our healthcare system through micro-managing regulation. And Obama won.
So yes, we can blame Republicans for declining to die on the hill of a disinterested Federal Government. But die they would have, and the alternative was not a smaller federal government, but more legislation that looks like Dodd Frank and Obamacare. Because the Public is uninterested in people who say, "That's not government's job!"
Yes; Republicans need to solidify support for their ‘Constitution’ and ‘Individual Liberty’ platform. Too many RINO’S in the party. This is common knowledge.
No, this was not the point I was making. If republicans settled on solely a "Constitution and Individual Liberty" platform, they would be about as popular as the Libertarian Party.
We the People of the United States of America do not want a minimal government solely focused on the Individual Liberty and so, surprise, neither of the main parties is running on that plank.
As I’ve said here many times before; Take the RINO’S out of the Republican party and you’d have the Libertarians. Let’s not pretend there isn’t LINO’S in the Libertarian party (Amash) and actually more LINO’S than RINO’S already as most of them are just Democrats hiding from their Nazi naming.
It’s impossible to judge a party platform by each party-affiliated politician. One has to read the party platform itself and doing so will show that Libertarians ARE Republicans 95% of the time. Perhaps; that party-splitting is one of the reasons real Republicans would be in danger (thinking not after Trump won) of loosing popularity (which I even doubt from the very premise your selling). Another common knowledge is those who voted libertarian last election threw away there votes and ended up giving Biden/Democrats a win.
McCain was offering the mass decentralization of health-care
And yet McStupid was the deciding vote for Obama’s plan. I hope he’s in Vietnamese prison hell.
McCain voted against ACA.
I think BigT is thinking about the repeal vote where McCain refused to do his job because he hated Trump so much.
So? He ended up voting to keep it. Because of his spite for and jealousy of Trump. McCain was a shitty senator, and another lifelong politician believed it was ‘their turn’ to be president. Just like Hillary, Biden and the rest of the career politician trash.
McCain voted against the ACA when his vote didn't matter, and voted to keep it when his vote made a difference.
Exactly. His final legacy is one of cynicism. Socialism, and spite.
I love you, but this is the dumbest point you have tried to make. McCain was a giant piece of shit. Don't try to diminish his legacy.
I’d say the Republican Party has less been pulled by the will of the people toward large federal interventions, and more they’ve done a poor job of arguing their point. Because the Republican Party, like the Democratic Party, is full of people who really want to govern. They prefer doing stuff to opting not to do stuff. So the people don’t get to hear from a party that is truly making Free Market and Limited Government arguments in any competent fashion.
So the people they elect are all big government types because that’s how they’ve been trained to see government working. They can’t envision a world where the government does less than it’s currently doing.
I suspect that politics seems tribal because tribal urges predate what we can define as politics, at least in abstract forms. Our pre-human ancestors existed immersed in tribal systems, with all behavior conditioned to remain in good graces with the tribe, or else perish.
The other pre-human root social driver for behavior is status. Who gets what, at least within tribes, depends on more than immediate actual violence. And contrary to Marxists and other idealists, it never was and never will be equal.
IMO any abstracted analysis if politics that does not derive from tribalism and status-seeking misses the point.
"Our pre-human ancestors existed immersed in tribal systems, with all behavior conditioned to remain in good graces with the tribe, or else perish."
Again, I think this over-thinks the problem. In any group situation, to get the group to do something, you need allies. Tribalism (I'll define that as using a set of standards to separate your allies from Others) is merely the best way to build a stable coalition. This is basic game theory, like a massive prisoner's dilemma. Given a large group of people, a stable coalition will by definition dominate longer than a loose "for this current decision" coalition. And tribalism is an effective way to adopt a stable coalition.
My point is that for most people what passes for political thinking derives from instinctive tribal behavior more than any abstract principles.
And tribalism has a strong genetic basis, of course - see The Selfish Gene etc.
Hence racism has a genetic advantage. But like our other animal instincts (rape) we judge this to be incompatible with individual human dignity. Racists are collectivists, naturally on the left side of the spectrum.
+10000 Well said --- and a topping of projection where every racist calls everyone else 'racist' out of pure deflection.
It also comports with the economics of the firm. Repeatedly seeking allies is a lot of work; better to roll logs, scratch each other's back on a sustained basis. It's also why parliamentary systems are said to "form a government".
Left/Right becomes objective if you simply rotate David Nolan's chart 90 degrees.
"Right" = Liberty = Classical Liberalism / our Constitution.
"Left" = Totalitarianism / Abusiveness.
Conservatives around the world traditionally hewed to, well, tradition — which meant the monarchy, and rule by the landed elite who supported the monarchy, and resistance to change of all kinds (away from established religion, mores, and economic processes.)
Liberals traditionally were those willing to try new forms and ideas — rule by the people, freedom from monarchy, democracy, individual rights, and new economic forms where profits were distributed not solely to those who earned them.
The only reason libertarians in America are viewed as right wing is because the past the conservatives look back fondly on consisted of an anti-authoritarian radical revolution for individual rights. It would correctly be described as liberal, but that term was commandeered by the New Deal socialists. So the right wing conservatives in the USA admire a libertarian past with smaller government and libertarians are grouped with them for that reason.
It's the Constitution, stupid. You're either for it or against it. The Left hates it. The Right disrespects it.
+100000000 Best Comment yet.
The constitution was made moot by the civil rights act
Which one? 1866 (Supported by a Constitutional Amendment) or 1964 done willy-nilly while ignoring the required Constitutional change?
And the Democrats Goldwater curse continues on today...
https://www.centralmaine.com/2014/07/19/goldwaters-vote-against-civil-rights-act-of-1964-unfairly-branded-him-a-racist/
So, Trump can run for President indefinitely? Cool.
I take it you haven't read the Constitution.
Either the Constitution approves of the government we now have, or it has been utterly unable to prevent it...
"unable to prevent it" -- see FDR's "New Deal" (Socialism on Steroids) and threats to stuff the Supreme Court for blocking it on first attempt. Same game the criminal left Nazi's still plays today. Anyway possible to "conquer" the USA for their [Na]tional So[zi]alist Regime.
This country needs a great cleansing. The sooner the better. Marxism must be torn out by the roots. No matter what.
Shut-down illegal immigration and only accept immigration that isn't the Marxists seeking 'others' greener pasture to eat/consume. Many who are just running from the very consequences of their own ideology. And end Commie-Education where Marxists brainwash the most vulnerable age to think contrary to common-sense/reality.
Or in perfect terms; Drain the Swamp of marxism.
"The constitution was made moot by the civil rights act"
Good morning, NARDZ, I am curious, to which portion(s) of the Civil Rights Act are you opposed?
Usually it is forced associations. The market should handle the negatives of civil rights. What most people get wrong about Jim Crow was it was state powers forcing segregation. Those laws should have been removed, not passing the opposite.
Good morning, Jesse. When I was a kid, I mean, like 4th grade, we lived in a very small town (sub 1800 residents) in CA. There were two markets in town -- neither could be remotely called "super markets." Let's suppose the owners of these two small markets decided not to serve certain members of the public, based on skin color (or religion, or whatever). Note: the nearest town with anything resembling a "food market" was more than a half-hour away by car.
Do you think making such citizens travel an hour just to by food is in any way "fair" or "just?"
No, but free association has no requirement to be fair.
Oh my God, half an hour one way, how barbaric. You do realize that in a vast majority of the country, a half hour drive to get groceries is common (if not more). Growing up we would have loved if it was only half an hour to get groceries. Hell, it's still 45 minutes one way for us now. Jesus wept. What a horror.
^^^ EXACTLY ^^^ — Seems the general consensus is; just pull out more, more, more Gov-Guns against those ‘icky’ people and make them deliver our groceries to the door.... Criminal Minds at work.
LOLOLOLOL
Yeah, I am afraid my father, who served in Korea (eight years in the military), my uncle who served in WWII (lifer and retired as a brigadier general), and both my grandfathers, who served in WWI (one as a corpsman), would not think much of your attitude.
But hey, you are what you are.
What is to stop those not allowed into the market to come together and form a weekly shopping list, hire someone to transport the goods and deliver it to them? Basically form their own market? Nothing. Someone looking to make a profit has an incentive to provide goods.
"What is to stop those not allowed into the market... etc."
This statement may be more revealing than I think you realize.
And what would that be?
It is not. Because again, Jim Crow was a state imposed barrier. In this case there is nothing stopping others from creating the market. That is what you are missing.
Obviously, you aren't a very deep thinker, as Jim Crow was the government enforcing segregation, even against those who didn't want to segregate. And the reason they passed those laws, as I stated, was because people wouldn't voluntarily all agree to segregation. So, to keep blacks and whites separate, the government passed laws to use force against those who didn't segregate voluntarily. Your response is very telling. As you seem to think that everyone, even in the south was already performing segregation without the laws in place. Which is the exact opposite of the truth. Say you don't know what you're talking about without saying you don't know what you're talking about.
"Yeah, I am afraid my father, who served in Korea (eight years in the military), my uncle who served in WWII (lifer and retired as a brigadier general), and both my grandfathers, who served in WWI (one as a corpsman), would not think much of your attitude..."
Gee, look at asshole here, wrapping himself in the flag!
Fuck off and die, slaver.
Gee, wrapping himself in the flag to someone whose handle is literally soldier medic, who has posted many times about his service. Also, note he doesn't list his own service. So wrapping himself in the flag his ancestors fought for but he was to chickenshit to serve.
First of all what does your families military history have to do with how a vast percentage of the country already lives? You missed the point, as usual. Secondly, oh two generations. My son is sixth generation Army. If you want to compare military service, as some sign of patriotism, I'll gladly start listing my service my father's my Grandfather's etc. All the way back to the Revolution, I've had family members who have served in every war this country has fought. On my mother's side I'm related to the Marquis de Lafayette, who so believed in the American cause he disobeyed his King to serve a cause of a country that wasn't even his own. On my dad's side, his mother's great grandfather's, both North German, south Danish immigrants served in the American Civil War almost immediately after immigrating to this country. My Great-grandfather was wounded on November 11, 1918, the only member of his squad that survived that day. I had two uncles (one of who was severely wounded so bad that when his brother, my Grandpa, volunteered to serve in Korea the Army sent him to Kansas because he was the eldest son likely to survive) at the Battle of the Bulge, one of who was also at Normandy, and went on to serve in Korea. I have an Uncle who is still listed as MIA after his F-86 was lost over North Korea. I have another who is listed as MIA when his C-47 went down in the Himalayas in 1944. I went back in after 9/11. At one point I had (all three siblings) a cousin in Iraq, another in Afghanistan and the third in Korea at the same time (my aunt said she didn't sleep for that entire year and dreaded any knock on the door). Of my Dad and his five siblings, three served (including my dad) and three are married to veterans (my aunt and her husband actually met while both serving in the Air Force). Of my mom and her five siblings, two served and four are married to veterans. On that side, there are 27 cousins in my generation, about half of us served. My mom's dad tried to sign up but was denied after Pearl Harbor because he was a logger and miner, and considered to vital to the war effort, but his brother is one mentioned above who served at Normandy, Ardennes and Korea. Her Grandfather, the one wounded on November 11th, 1918 was one of the founding members of the American Legion in Idaho. So don't try and pull the service card on me. And, I see, you didn't list your own service (my father volunteered for the infantry while Vietnam was still ongoing, albeit it ended before he started basic).
Oh and I called you a dipshit above because you actually pulled the service card (not even your own) on someone's whose handle is literally soldier medic (which BTW is one of the unofficial mottos of the US Army's Medical Corp, which I belonged to, actually truth be told since I was awarded the US Army's Medical Regimental crest, as all Medics do, I will always, by statutes, be able to claim to be part of that regiment for life).
Like my father is authorized to always wear the 33rd Infantry Regimental crest for life.
You do realize that in a vast majority of the country, a half hour drive to get groceries is common (if not more).
Half hour was the bus ride to school *every* *day*. The couple of black kids’ at our school's ride was a few minutes longer because they lived about a mile and a half up the road. Fucking racist time-space continuum.
Yeah, mine was half an hour too. I felt lucky. I knew kids that had to be at the bus stop by 6:15 to make it to school by 8 in my district (one of the largest geographically in the state of Idaho, extended north south from fifteen miles to Coeur d'Alene and 25 miles north of Moscow and east west from the Washington border to five miles west of St Maries, Idaho. Land wise the district was bigger than the state of Rhode Island.
Perfect example of confusing 'entitlement' with 'rights' or 'justice'.
Who besides the owner is "entitled" to that property management?
Is it really justice to DEMAND service from said owners business against their willful consent at the end of a Gov-Gun?
Think about it.
If said discriminated identity felt they needed a small market what is stopping them from STARTING one? Too hard? Gotta use GUNS instead?
BTW, how long before one of the two stores realized they could make more money because the other store was banning a certain class of people? That's the beauty of true capitalism, the market will make such practices damaging to those who implement them, while rewarding those who reject them. Government isn't the answer. Yes, banning government sanctioned bias is necessary, but the government can't and shouldn't try to banish individual bias, because first it will fail, and second it can only achieve it by use or threat of the use of force.
To go further, Jim Crow laws were the government trying to enforce behavior because they knew that without that force, people would not behave the way they wanted. For every racist that refused to do business with a black person there was someone who was more than happy to take their money, rather or not that person was racist themselves. Because as Overt states above, each person ranks different values according to their own criteria. So for every person who ranked racial purity as the more important than economic success, you would have someone who ranks economic success over their views of race. In fact, the very justification for many Jim Crow laws were because so many businesses were doing business with freed slaves and whites in the same establishment and many whites in the south didn't like that. So, the very history of Jim Crow shows that the government didn't need to enact policies to force businesses to offer equal access, because they would have on their own, because they were before the government forced them to stop.
"So for every person who ranked racial purity as the more important than economic success, you would have someone who ranks economic success over their views of race. "
That explains why it was Jews who were willing to work with black musicians in the early to mid 20th century. Jews weren't a part of white privilege and never bought into the whole white supremacy racist ideology that motivated many Americans and kept Jim Crow alive for so many years, even after slavery was formally abolished. Of the notorious murder of 3 civil rights workers in Mississippi in 1964, two were Jewish, one was black. None of them were Libertarian.
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
FYI: "white supremacy racist ideology" was ended by the Civil War when Republicans conquered the Democrats. Apparently the battle was won but the mentality lives on in the left. They still lobby for legislation entirely based on what color of skin one has the only difference is they approach it from the other color.
” “white supremacy racist ideology” was ended by the Civil War when Republicans conquered the Democrats.”
Propaganda. The civil war never ended. It will continue for as long as the nation exists. It's baked into the bones of everyone. 1957, Federal troops called to integrate public schools in Arkansas. The Beatles and Rolling Stones owed their careers to white supremacy racist ideology. Whites shunned black culture in America and it was up the Brits to fully appreciate it and feed it back to America is a suitably white guise. There are some Americans who aren’t white racist supremacists, and immersed themselves in black culture, and came out better men and women for it. Hank Williams, for example. Learned everything he knew about music before he was 10 from a black Alabama bluesman.
Or maybe people are just people who shouldn't be FORCED to serve/associate with any specific 'collectivist' culture. The propaganda is where Gov-Gun legislation must FORCE a 'collective' (skin-color) based culture onto everyone ... of which the lefts base is entirely wrapped up in. The very definition of being racist.
The 'Republican' white collective hasn't proposed a had a racist law ever. It has always been done by the left from slavery to entitlement. The lefts entire platform is based on building [WE] identity-affiliated Gov-Gang-Power over those 'icky' ones. They've never supported Individual Liberty and Justice for *all* skin-colors.
Your problem is you're still thinking like a collectivist / gang-power and PROJECTING your own mentality onto everyone else without any substance behind it.
The very point of this whole article (which it misses) --- It's all just Nazi Projection.
Edit - "The ‘Republican’ white collective hasn’t" to just Republican-Party. Change of explanation wording mid-sentence made that sound pretty bad; but entirely UN-intended.
"Or maybe people are just people "
If that's the case, you shouldn't be surprised if people club together into collectivities, however large. Humans are social creatures like their closest relatives among the rest of the primates. In other words we don't need to be forced into living in collectives. It's human nature. Lot's of other animals too, like bees and ants.
"The ‘Republican’ white collective hasn’t proposed a had a racist law ever. It has always been done by the left from slavery to entitlement."
The left/right distinction came to the fore with the French revolution. I think the political landscape of America was shaped before that, in England with the civil war there in the 1600s. Cavaliers (Charles=slaveowner) vs Roundheads (Cromwell=puritan/Yankee)
That explains why it was Jews who were willing to work with black musicians in the early to mid 20th century.
You mean like this guy?
https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0427231/mediaviewer/rm1751685120
There are many Jews in show business who worked with blacks and appreciated black culture. It wasn't just Jews either. The 'British Invasion' of pop music in the early 60s was due to their embrace of black music and culture. It was only possible because they didn't experience white privilege or white supremacist squeamishness of black culture.
Elvis, Buddy Holly, Johny Cash and Jerry Lee Lewis were incorporating black music into their music a decade before the British invasion. Southern Rock was distinctly influenced by black music, as well as Country Western.
Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Merle Haggard and Waylon Jennings also mentioned black music influenced some of their music, especially black gospel music.
Also, I believe Hank Williams Senior also mentioned being influenced by black music. Listen to 'I'm so lonesome, I could cry's and you'll hear the influence of southern blues. Or 'Oh me, Oh my'. Black blues definitely influenced the country swing music of the 1940s and 1950s.
Note: every single artist I listed were white men, who grew up in the segregationist south and south adjacent (Oklahoma was a segregationist state, although never had been part of the Confederacy) during the height of Jim Crow. The myth that British Rock introduced America to black music which had been ignored is just that a myth.
“Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Merle Haggard and Waylon Jennings also mentioned black music influenced some of their music, especially black gospel music.”
None of these musicians you mentioned were white supremacists. They were, too a man, in terms Reason commenters understand, progtards, commies, leftists, nazis, fascists and so on. I suspect that some of them may have voted for Democrats. Hank Williams I already mentioned. America was never totally in thrall to white supremacist ideology. Some were exceptional.
Black music was never ignored in America. It was segregated into categories of ‘music’ and ‘race music.’ Of course the segregation went much deeper than music. When the Beatles, ignorant of their white privilege, were booked to play a concert in Florida, they were horrified to learn that their black fans were to be physically separated from their white fans, on the belief that close proximity would sully the purity and compromise the safety of the white fans. They refused to play to a segregated audience and the Floridian racists relented, and allowed the audience to mingle, black and white, as God intended.
None of these people were white supremacists... That's the fucking point!
And no, they weren't progressives or leftists. They were, more libertarian than progressives, with maybe the exception of Willie, but even he's pretty schizophrenia on his political positions, but more than anything he sounds like an old school hippie, e.g. far more fuck the government than the government is good and should be in charge to make things better, e.g. very typical of western conservatives, who tend to be closer to libertarian, than east coast and bible Belt Conservatives. Or better yet, old school federalists. That's why deep red Montana voted for Trump at the same time they overwhelmingly voted to legalize marijuana in the same election, (South Dakota also did the same but their state legislature decided to nullify the vote, which has pissed off the people but the Democrats haven't taken advantage because the Democrats offer them even less than the Republicans).
"None of these people were white supremacists… That’s the fucking point!"
My point was that white supremacy was so pervasive in America that it left the door open for foreigners and marginal people. The founder of Atlantic records was a Turk born in Istanbul and fell in love with black culture as a lad. He opened shop in New York which despite its status as a world class city was rife with segregation aimed at the black population. He was able to sign what today are household names like Ray Charles.
What was disallowing a 3rd market from being created?
Do you think the government should use force to produce "fair" results in all areas?
Fuck off, slaver.
Government doesn’t have a duty to make life fair?
Government not only doesn't, it cannot.
But it sure can fuck with everyone and make all lives unfair.
Sounds like a hypothetical strawman. What businessman would turn away a sizable portion of his potential customer base? Why do you think racist states wanted Jim Crow laws? Because businesses couldn't afford to practice overt racism unless competing businesses were also forced to.
Ce Are you kidding? Any business that chooses sides in the culture wars is chasing away half their customers. I was amazed when Disney (whose customer base is families) came out in favor of gay and trans. And when Bud light completely misread that its majority of customers were conservatives. This is happening over and over again, even with gun companies like H and K. There is no upside to a corporation taking sides in the culture wars. Yet they keep chasing away half or more of their customers by doing exactly that
A businessman might turn away 20% of his customers if serving them meant that half of the other 80% would choose to go elsewhere. Do the arithmetic.
BUT if that arithmetic held everywhere, Jim Crow laws wouldn't have been needed to keep the racists happy.
That situation no longer exists. The market provided. Try again.
It's the Reason-approved method for increasing freedom: give more power to the central state to stop local infringements on liberty. With a certain practiced blindness to the risks of increasing central power.
The Constitution in this case representing Liberty / Classical Liberalism, vs regressive totalitarianism / abusive government.
The Left often express love for and wrap themselves in the Constitution, when it aligns with their goals.
It really never does ‘align’. They just cherry-pick words and phrases completely out of context and gives them a whole backwards meaning.
Current dominant example is 1st amendment ignoring the “*Congress* shall make no law” part and pretending they have a right to destroy any concept of private property to teach butt-sex pride.
Difference being their so-called 'rights' aren't rights at all but 'entitlements' to someone else's property/labor/time. Spinning 'rights' into 'entitlements' to enslave others is what they "wrap themselves" into.
Just like how sociopaths emulate emotions they can’t actually feel!
"FBI broke rules in scouring foreign intelligence on Jan. 6 riot, racial justice protests, court says"
[...]
"WASHINGTON — FBI officials repeatedly violated their own standards when they searched a vast repository of foreign intelligence for information related to the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol and racial justice protests in 2020, according to a heavily blacked-out court order released Friday.
FBI officials said the thousands of violations, which also include improper searches of donors to a congressional campaign, predated a series of corrective measures that started in the summer of 2021 and continued last year..."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/fbi-broke-rules-scouring-foreign-intel-jan-6-riot-court-says-rcna85339
Yeah, we fixed all that. Nothing to see here.
FBI says it won’t release Jan 6 surveillance video because it would show too many undercover government agents and informants…
And then there's this:
According to source 100-200 Secret Service agents alone were undercover at the Capitol during the riot on January 6.
And of course they were totally neutral; not stirring up any shit, right?
I'm reasonably sure that of the thousands and thousands of people rioting at the Capitol that day, the only people who weren't undercover FBI, DHS, CIA, ATF and Secret Service agents, were the 960 people charged with 'parading'.
If only those 960 had been parading in drag.
LOL... An entire paged article about Nazi PROJECTION.
Yet; with all that mumbling never did actually hit the nail on the head.
"We shouldn't. Placing both Hitler and Friedman on the same side of a spectrum as if they shared some fundamental essence is both misleading and destructive." --- brought to you by Nazi PROJECTION.
Democrats do this constantly. They call everyone 'else' exactly what they are/do. If they spend like madmen; they blame Republicans for the debt. If they push for [Na]tional So[zi]alism; they blame Republicans for Nazism. If they want to censor speech; they call the right Authoritarians.
That is how Deceitful Criminals work..... They LIE and PROJECT.
Heinlein pretty much covered it:
"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
I want people to be controlled... By themselves! Sad to say, evil people have no sense of responsible self-control. They shit all over others whenever it suits them. Hence, sadly, the need for government... Butt NOT Government ALMIGHTY, please?!??!
There is a difference between ensuring Liberty and Justice for all and ‘controlling’/enslaving the people. One is criminal itself ("armed-theft") the other is to stop criminal actions.
Heinlein rocked.
"Left" and "Right" make objective sense when you simply rotate David Nolan's chart 90 degrees, with "Left" = Authoritarianism / Totalitarianism / Abusive government and "Right" = Liberty / Classical Liberalism / our Constitution.
https://twitter.com/GraceSm73368432/status/1660048288425320448?t=o9PqHfIhXl2mWXB17jZY5w&s=19
So…..
A group of nonwhite women get arrested for violently fighting each other at the school bus stop…..
And the media puts a pic of two white women as a headliner picture for the story.
[Link]
As they should. ALL negative outcomes within POCs are the result of centuries of white oppression, even if no crackers were within miles of the actual incident.
Another example of why we need SUVs for All. No one should be forced to ride the bus because they can't afford an SUV.
In their defense, if I had to pick which catfight I wanted to see play out...
The discussion is the left and the right, but could we have a discussion about a moderate libertarianism. One that does not look at government as big or small but rather seeks an effective government. In the modern first world government is necessary and as societal complexity rises so will the amount of government. Issues cannot be ignored, but if the approach is to first look to non-government entities to address issue and only look to government as the last resort. When government is the last resort, then to use the lightest footprint. Doing this could yield an effective government, that provides the most liberty to all.
One problem I see with left/right approach is the desire to maximize my personal liberty even if that means less liberty for others. I would seek compromise to maximize liberty for the most, accepting that in some area I will have to accept less.
You are a very confused person. Probably the result of a public school education, so not your fault.
Go look up David Nolan’s political chart. Now rotated it 90 degrees, and it will finally make objective sense. Left = authoritarianism / totalitarianism. Right = Liberty. His choice to present it the way he did was, itself, propaganda.
He is one of the common leftists who attempts to gaslight democrat control as really meaning liberty. His effective government is a unicorn that will never occur but is used to excuse democrat control.
He says effective so he can excuse any bad actions as not real effective government. A play on those who claim socialism or communism has never been tried.
I had a private parochial school education and I sure the nuns at my school would not have appreciated your comment.
Worst appeal to authority ever?
They clearly failed you.
Fuck you cut spending
There’s that Thinking Mind, not An Emoting Mind at all. No sir.
That's 'thinking' without all the deceitful emotional hob-nobbling.
Were you referring to Liarsom’s knob gobbling?
Did he call everyone disagreeing with him MAGA like you above?
“Fuck you cut spending” is a libertarian meme.
As a supposed libertarian, you should be all about that slogan.
+1 "Your pet cause is not special."
I see where you are coming from, although I believe a modern nation could have a fairly small government.
What I would like to see at this point is some adults in the room in our nation’s government. Not just in government, but in many aspects of American society, there is an epidemic of childishness.
I do believe there is an optimal size for a nation and the United States is always going to have some political problems because of its size. (And no I’m not advocating the “national divorce” idea.)
As long as Mike and his leftist allies get to determine who those adults are.
It's suppose to be "divorced" into 50 Sovereign States. Hint, Hint --- The *United* States of America. Only having a National government (Union of Sovereign States) for a strong national defense and ensuring "land of the free" liberty (i.e. Bill of Rights).
Today; it's become *ss backwards. The Union is killing Liberty and the State's are being socialized under Nationalism. (hut hum; [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism]).
The problem is not an optimum size of the government but reality of an increasingly smaller world. The speed with which information is disseminated and the speed at which goods and people can travel all create a leveling effect that must be addressed. People can see the opportunities in the American and so want to live here. America can see good and services that they want from the world. People that could be marginalized in an isolated world now want recognition. The smallest government we could have is the one that is the most effective.
The problem is not an optimum size of the government but reality of an increasingly smaller world.
Can both be true? Can there be only one problem with the status quo of American politics?
It could certainly be the case that both are true. I see your comment as focusing on size while I am thinking more of effectiveness and independent of size.
Size leads to inefficiency. As Adam Smith noted a out bureaucrats, is that the thing they're best at is creating more bureaucracy. The larger any organization becomes, the less efficient it becomes. Oh, then what about big corporations? The amount of waste in big corporations tends to be much larger than in smaller corporations. They tend to earn more because of volume and regulatory capture. They function better then the government largely because they are answerable, at least for now, to their shareholders, therefore they need to present a positive balance sheet, so they try and reduce their inherent inefficiencies as much as possible. Governments don't have this problem. Governments have little incentive to turn a positive balance sheet. Several studies have shown that states with balanced budget amendments have both smaller and more efficient governments. So, if efficiency is your aim, the size of the government does seem to appear to be a factor.
Good thread
https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1659932447063044098?t=0dLBY6Tj3zg8LK2Jl6VeWg&s=19
Hard not to laugh at the very particular hell Anheuser put itself in
Let’s look at how the execs painted
themselves into this corner
Bud Light appeals to red America, it bills itself as the beer of the working man
There’s a reason it’s called out by name in several country songs, this is the demographic Anheuser specifically targeted up until recently
But red America is quickly becoming an unacceptable audience to appeal to, especially the white working class
It’s filled with wrong kind of people, you know, the ones who might not want to trans their kids
Corporations used to be okay with appealing to these people even though they hated them because it made them a ton of money
But now the purchasing power of red America is waning as the middle class is intentionally eroded, and the culture war turns them into untouchables
So like many corporations who used to farm this demographic while despising them, Bud Light saw the writing on the wall and needed to shift its appeal, so it tried to shape its current audience while appealing to a more culturally desirable one
Then something very unexpected happened
Red America has been pretty easy to manipulate and push towards progressive norms, but it has suddenly found its spine when it comes to the attempt to push trans ideology, especially onto children
I’d like to believe that ensuing boycott was related to the fact that the Dylan Mulvaney campaign came on the heels of a trans shooter murdering children at a Christian school but I don’t know if that’s what resonated with the Bud Light drinker
Either way, a boycott should be no big deal, red America is notorious for declaring boycotts that have no effect and are quickly abandoned
But to the surprise of many, myself included, this one stuck and has done serious damage
Many people will tell you about the importance of rational arguments in the marketplace of ideas but in the realm of mass politics or the culture war, memes are far not powerful
Which is why this sign does way more to change minds than intricate arguments [meme]
Suddenly Bud Light became a joke, something you mercilessly ridiculed your buddy for ordering at the bar
The social stigma encoded in the meme was devastating and has made Bud Light untouchable to its core market
For once corporate America failed to manipulate its audience
Now the easiest thing in the world would simply be to apologize and go back to running ads of dudes drinking beer after a long day of work, but the Anheuser execs can’t do that because the Mulvaney campaign is supposed to champion the new sacred class of the regime
Anheuser tried to issue a non-statement about how beer was for everyone, but once again the meme was too powerful
The statement failed to mollify red America, but even worse for the execs, it showed insufficient loyalty to the new faith
Once the campaign became about trans visibility, even the slightest wavering Anheuser would be attacked as disloyalty to elite religion of our times, and even the weak non-stamens the company issued was enough for it to catch grief
So if it’s a no win situation why not just drop the trans stuff and go back to making money?
Well because making money might be the goal of a company but it isn’t the actual goal of individual executives
Executives rarely stay with the same company for their whole career, they need to be able to advance by moving to higher positions in other corporations
So even if you make a bunch of money for Anheuser, if you brand yourself as backward transphobe then your career is over
So Anheuser executives are stuck in a downward spiral where any attempt to escape dooms them
If they don’t change course their core customer base will continue to boycott and tank their profits
If they do change course they will kill their careers and become pariahs in their own social circles
They won’t be welcome at all those fancy Satan worshiping parties they worked so hard to get into
Basically, enjoy the show, these people deserve everything they’re getting
And don’t back down, make sure every company fears falling victim to the same backlash
[Links]
"Corporations used to be okay with appealing to these people even though they hated them because it made them a ton of money"
Also, corporations recently got religion. IMO, too many CEOs and investors actually believe that they are champions in a holy crusade, even if their ideologies reduce sales and profits (which at least some of them suspect might be sinful).
The jury is still out on me as to whether these people "got religion" or actually believe this stuff. You cannot look at Clinton, Epstein, Wienstein, or Bankman-Fried and conclude that they are selfless warriors of the "We should all be equal" scriptures.
A lot is performative, virtue-signaling. But they must have some empathy for that view to go along as they have.
Or they're just psychopaths who will feign any belief/ethic that gives them an advantage.
As Auron points out, that's one of the big problems. Corporate execs have no real ties to their companies. They're mercs who will try to produce whatever metrics best serve their career, rather than the company's health, then jump ship to the next fortune 500 collective.
We live in an environment where psychopathy, a lack of personal connection or ethical commitment (no conscience), is the most advantageous trait an individual can possess.
Our economy is based on debt, and capital is controlled by an increasingly centralized cabal of central banks who get to issue that debt. Profit from product is a much lesser concern for execs than advancing the interests of that global cabal is.
ESG is the rule, not Adam Smith.
And trying to avoid economic or publicity sanctions from the sanctimonious far Left, and to placate far left employees and those far left investors who demand improving ESG scores.
The thread explains it pretty clearly.
You don't need to appeal to all these "genuine" concerns as motivation.
ESG directs capital, loans are the primary source of "profit", and execs don't give a shit about anything but their next job thus take no unapproved risks.
You have to understand the people in control aren't like you. You have to stop projecting your logic and motives onto evil psychopaths. It's a totally different thought process.
"Maybe he pushed that woman onto the train tracks because she said something to him, or attacked him, or it was an accident, or he was high."
No. He pushed that woman onto the train tracks because he's a psychopath who wanted to hurt her.
Same thing with corporate America.
Same Church different Pope, AFAICT. Power corrupts. - Protestant
Why do they need executives? What is it about making, shipping, and selling beer that requires so many decisions?
Decisions:
How much more can we cheapen the ingredients before our customers notice the continuing decline in quality?
How much more time and cost can we take out of the brewing process before our customers notice the continuing decline in quality?
How can we tailor a marketing campaign to sell more beer without our customers noticing that we’re insulting their intelligence or something?
1 and 2 were rational decisions based on the numbers, whichever way they went. But for #3, how stupid did the executives have to be not to realize that their customers were rednecks, and you don't insult a redneck's _manhood_.
So, how to sort political thinking?
1. What is your maximum tolerance, and desire, for government rule over individual liberties?
2. What are the domains of social, economic, and moral behavior in which you wish for greater government control or oversight?
3. What are your priorities for principles for guiding specific government policies and actions?
1. Zero.
2. Irrelevant. The principles of liberty always create the best economic outcome for the vast majority of people; government has no business regulating social and moral issues.
3. Classical Liberalism. If any particular policy is VIOLATING individual rights rather than PROTECTING them, it should be immediately be abolished.
You're welcome.
4. Do Sacred Fartilized Egg Smells have individual liberties?
5. Do womb-slaves have ANY individual liberties?
6. Which are More Sacred, the individual liberties to be compassionate with other peoples' money, or the individual liberties to be compassionate with other peoples' wombs?
1. None
2. None
3. Stop stealing.
https://twitter.com/BucMon21/status/1660293068598198273?t=BMTdjwG8aNwM6npeF81t8Q&s=19
A look at the Human Rights Commission's new demands on corporations to get their highest CEI ratings to comply with ESG financing perks.
[Links, thread]
"Human Rights Commission" is a perfect example of Orwellian doublespeak.
NO SALE
Proclaiming the abolitionists "the first American libertarians" is just another arbitrary definition of libertarians. If libertarianism as a "cluster of commitments: to property rights, negative liberty, individualism, free markets, spontaneous order, and a skepticism toward authority", then I submit Jefferson and the revolutionaries as "the first American libertarians" and the greatest enemy to liberty was not slavery but monarchy.
It's bad history too. The biggest libertarians in the American revolution were primarily slave-holding plantation owners in Virginia. One of the few abolitionist Founders was John Adams, who as the second President tried to consolidate government power with the Alien and Sedition Acts, leading to an electoral pushback for more liberty and smaller government, in the person of the slave-holding Thomas Jefferson.
Also, it's the same backwards thinking with regard to COVID was better than Jim Crow. If the government can tax, imprison, enslave everyone, and seize all the property they own on a made up premise, then the ability to tax, imprison, and enslave a minority subset of the population on objective characteristics is subordinate to that. "Fuck you, you're black." is an encroachment on civil liberties but "Fuck you, that's why." is, in the abstract, the greater threat. With quibbles about whether Jim Crow locked more kids entirely out of school longer than COVID or just out of *equal* schooling speaking directly to the underlying fact.
https://twitter.com/MythinformedMKE/status/1660301459357937665?t=-F3ohhnLSXl0UtJ1G9bkZQ&s=19
Woke corporations like Disney will bankrupt the satirists.
[Video]
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1660302778093252608?t=WH8HAc8LORAMpjgNfvgANw&s=19
A newly released Harris-Harvard poll conclusively demonstrates how radically out of touch is liberal corporate media with the views of Americans.
It's not just that corporate media rejects Americans' views. They don't permit those views to be heard.
To start:
Majorities of Americans say it's *false* that Trump colluded with Russia. The the Steele Dossier is also "false."
In other words, they view the story the US media aggressively centered for 3 years as a hoax and a fraud, yet NBC and CNN won't even air this view.
Americans also believe that the materials on the Hunter Biden laptop are real, and are not and never were "Russian disinformation."
So again, Americans view the claim that the US corporate media and CIA spread for weeks before the 2020 election - to help Biden win - as a fraud.
Majorties of Americans also believe:
* Hunter Biden engaged in criminal influence peddling using his father's name.
* The FBI is not investigating these crimes.
* Joe Biden participated in Hunter's illegal influence peddling and profiteering schemes.
*Large majorities* of Americans say they are not surprised to learn the FBI abused it power in the 2016 Trum/Russia probe to help Biden.
*Large majorities* also say they are deeply worried about the US Security State's manipulation of US politics, and sweeping reform is needed.
Large majorities of Americans have serious doubts about Biden's mental fitness to be President, and believe he is too old.
Unsurprisingly, then, Trump leads Biden by 7 points for 2024, and Kamala Harris by 11 points.
Can the media be more out-of-touch?
[Link, graphics]
I bet that majorities of Americans also expect or at least wish for media to report news relatively objectively and completely. How do media people feel about this?
The fact is there is plenty of objective news. The major networks offer a balanced nightly news as does the local affiliates for local news. Also, local newspapers. The question is do people want objective news or do they want news slanted towards their view. There is plenty of that news available also across a wide spectrum of political views.
In 2024 the candidates will be DeSantis and Newsome.
Doesn't matter.
What’s it like being such a coward that you talk about killing people, but when called out on it you’re silent? Can you even look at yourself in the mirror?
In other news, Bakhmut has been taken by Russia.
When, not if, Ukraine surrenders, I fully expect Putin to demand Zelensky to stay, as he poses no threat to him.
I get being consistently anti-war, but what’s with going beyond that to cheer for the Kremlin?
If you were actually anti-war you wouldn't have interpreted what Nobartium wrote to be cheering. Your biases are showing again.
This.
The claim that 'Bakhmut has been taken by Russia' is an assertion by Prigozhin/Wagner (for the nth time) and by the Russian military. The Ukrainian side is asserting that Ukraine has gained the heights around Bakhmut and those parts of Bakhmut that are occupied by Russians are now nearly surrounded.
Neither of those have been verified by any third party. No third party has gone into or near Bakhmut and won't until the fighting ends. Which does mean - the fighting is still going on.
Who you choose to believe shows your biases.
I don't believe either, you goose-stepping Nazi fuck. Neither did I claim to. Zelenskyy is a con man and Putin is a despot. Fuck them both.
I clearly said White Mike was wrong to interpret what Nobartium wrote as cheering. You know I did, so why are you lying about what I said?
Now go fuck off and put another little Ukrainian flag on your Facebook profile next to all your other Current Thing shit.
"I clearly said White Mike was wrong to interpret what Nobartium wrote as cheering."
Why? Nobartium was asked a question. Was he cheering Russia? Let him answer for himself. You don't need to speak for him.
So you read your bias into that just like White Mike, or are you trying to white knight for JFree?
Either way, fuck off clown.
I'm asking why you are stepping up to speak for Nobartium. Let him speak for himself. Otherwise you open the door to accusations of sockpuppetry. That's a whole new can of worms, pardon the mixed metaphor.
As for my bias, I'm a bit of a russophile, so I'm sympathetic to their side, and I suspect Nobartium is too, even if he is afraid to admit it. Also something about Ukraine rubs me the wrong way. All that said, I believe Putin's operations in Ukraine are wrong and a disappointment. I thought an ex-KGB man would have some tricks up his sleeve to get what he wants out of Ukraine. Targeted assassinations, rent a mob, cyber attacks, bribery, honey pots, black propaganda, white propaganda, the whole laundry list of tactics spy agencies employ against their enemies. Instead he goes for the least subtle, most risky approach possible - a military invasion. Stalin blundered by invading Finland but he learned from his mistakes. Let's see if Putin can live up to his predecessors.
I’m asking why you are stepping up to white knight for JFree.
And I was challenging Mike, not stepping up to speak for Nobartium.
Keep digging, Sox.
Digging? I don't think you actually even know what you're defending anymore.
"I don’t think you actually even know what you’re defending anymore."
It's confusing, isn't it. To be clear, you are the sock of Nobortium, Designate is the sock of you, and R Mac is the sock of Designate. You all support Russia in the war against Ukraine, but don't want to explicitly admit it.
Oh wow. You figured it all out, mtrueman.
No sense hiding it from a genius like you. You must be almost as smart as Sarcasmic.
Since you've got me dead to rights I may as well confess that I was also Ken, Crusty and Michael Hihn too.
He wasn’t speaking for Nobartium, he was calling Mike out….
Enter sock 3. Is there a reason why commenters here are reluctantly to declare for the Russian side? Fear of losing their job/livelihood, respect of their family/friends/neighbors?
“Is there a reason why commenters here are reluctantly to declare for the Russian side?”
Because the Russians are a bunch of murderous, raping, kidnapping orc invaders?
Americans are generally OK with all that. You can add carving up corpses for souvenirs, bombing wedding parties, and torture for good measure.
Oh, that makes it OK.
Zelensky hasn't been in Ukraine for weeks. Don't think it's safe for him there.
And Ukraine's finally admitted their top general is dying/dead. Credited to a Russian strike weeks ago, but speculation that he was taken out internally and the strike was just used as cover. Guy was pushing for negotiations and may have had back-channel talks w/the Russkis
https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1660203540537659392?t=dsuISxKMXrHsbq555RUT8Q&s=19
Today I am authorizing critical new security support for Ukraine, in the form of arms and equipment, that will strengthen Ukraine’s defenders on the battlefield. We continue to stand united with Ukraine, and will for as long as it takes.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1659669111000150016?t=YYPj5jc-3FB8COVHcySjrA&s=19
BREAKING: Lawyer of viral pregnant New York City nurse reveals that they will be suing the media for defamation.
The nurse was widely defamed for “harassing 5 men” which turned out to be completely false.
"She's been called a racist. She's been called a thief. There are reasons defamation laws exist, and we plan to pursue that,” her lawyer explained on Fox News.
Good
[Link]
Good for her. She has a stronger case than Dominion. Hope she bankrupts a few.
Everybody in the country has a stronger case than Dominion.
You seen evidence that all others have missed?
Dominion is a government contractor.
It's beyond ridiculous to say they have a case for defamation.
"Dominion is a government contractor.
It’s beyond ridiculous to say they have a case for defamation."
Fail; irrelevance.
What's that, sqrlvo?
Couldn't hear you with all that statist dick in your mouth.
Hey Nardz in your hypothetical white supermajority America what would Mother’s Lament’s status be? He’s only half white, but he hates the half of himself that isn’t white?
Are a few non-whites ok? How many? Do you realize yet how incredibly racist you are?
D- trolling.
Thanks for not failing me.
Yeah, that's me, hating my kookum.
Poor Shrike, It must be hard to only have the most retarded of Democratic Party narratives to work with.
It must be hard to hate yourself so much you take it out on people who’s political opinions don’t align 100% with yours.
I don't, but I do hate people who’s political opinions align 100% with the Nazis... people like you.
I haven’t stated any beliefs other than it’s wrong for people like Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud to talk about killing people who disagree with them. And calling Nardz’s white supermajority state racist. Because it is!
If you’re against that then you’re the Nazi.
Oh fuck off, are you actually trying to pretend you don’t have a long history here of pushing critical race theory, Keynesian corporatism, Aktion T4 policies, etc?
Nope never posted about those subjects.
The only person I’ve seen posting about Aktion T4 is you when you falsely accuse others of advocating it.
“Keynesian Corporatism” is just a thing you’ve made up to sound smart.
Oh that's right, because you're Nardz Kill and totally not Shrike.
“Keynesian Corporatism” is just a thing you’ve made up
With that display of brain power you may actually be Sarcasmic...
Corporatism and Keynes: His Views on Growth
and;
Keynes and the Role of the State - Monetary Rules Versus Consensual Discretion: Corporatism and the Future of Keynesian Policy-Making
I don't wish that white women had to be mugged (metaphorically) at the hands of black defenders, but this should be a wakeup call.
https://twitter.com/doc_gero/status/1660290465940504576?t=vQMiEW6SyF4Qn4X929rH8g&s=19
????When people say "social media isn't real life," I would push back a bit.
Social media was the necessary ingredient for enabling the lockdown-and-mandate culture of the C19 pandemic (curated through government-coordinated censorship, deplatforming, and propaganda, which has been documented via the #TwitterFiles).
Social media was a necessary ingredient for setting off #BLM "mostly peaceful" riots and protests where cities burned for weeks in 2021.
Now - we have a lady who looks like she's going to lose her job, and is now receiving death threats, and is terrified and in hiding because of this technological invention.
It's a technological invention that apparently can be so easily weaponized to make complete fictions real.
In this case, it's apparently made enormous masses of people believe that a 6 mo pregnant lady and physician's assistant, who had just finished a 12 hour shift at her hospital, thought "hey, I have nothing better to do than to try and steal a bike from a group of black men because heck, that's just what white women do."
At some point do we all just stop, take a breath, and start acting like real human beings again? Where does this end?
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1660296192692039681?t=64VQMGODCRjgTQ1qsqdvlQ&s=19
NAACP issues travel advisory for Florida, saying the state is "openly hostile toward African Americans" under Gov. DeSantis' administration
[Link]
Because they're not aborting black babies and chopping their children's dicks off?
Opposite day at the NAACP as usual.
" aborting black babies and chopping their children’s dicks off"
Leave New York and Illinois out of this.
https://twitter.com/Oilfield_Rando/status/1660320391041110019?t=n5ZeJFOEoJR03vF7mT-V0g&s=19
A “global minimum tax”
[Link]
One world government is the most dangerous idea on earth.
History tells us otherwise. It tells a story of princes, potentates, nations, and faiths endlessly fighting each other for advantage. In Ireland for example people have been killing each other for hundreds of years over the question of whether the host is the body of Christ, or merely represents the body of Christ. In WWII, over 70 million dead because of the idea of racial superiority. The idea of one world government at least has the advantage of being based on unifying the planet rather than dividing it into permanently warring camps.
Yeah. All those global spanning empires never killed anyone. Lol.
History doesn't record a globe spanning empire. There have been some big ones, like the British empire. It was claimed that the sun never sets on the British empire, but there were always large swaths of it that remained outside. It wasn't a world government either. It was centered in London, and people outside London had no say in the running of it. Imperialism, one set of people ruling over another set of people, is just as deadly as religious or national intolerance.
True, a global one world government has the advantage that it has absolutely no track record to examine.
Let’s hope the journey to get there is better than going to “real communism.”
One world government would be tyranny if it were all encompassing and impossible to escape or avoid its reach. It would have to be tempered with ungoverned physical and social areas where anarchy reigned. We could freely choose between governed and ungoverned even going back and forth between them at will according to our wishes, customs and convenience.
"One world government would be tyranny if it were all encompassing and impossible to escape or avoid its reach."
The hope, post WWII, was that mainland China's size and population was sufficient to avoid such tyranny. The ignoramus trueman seems to retain the fantasy 70 years later.
trueman is an un-educated piece of shit.
Yup, all that justifies the tyranny of the mob, or at least a mob of billionaire fascists and their international lackeys.
You can justify anything your mind comes up with. Focus on this: It takes a mob to kill a mob.
trueman has the stench of academia; the hope that a gassy out-pouring of idiocy will be mistaken for profundity by the 'students'. trueman is full of shit; Focus on this:
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
I fully agree and Chantal Delsol has made this statement incontrovertible.
Only authoritarianism vs libertarianism is meaningful. Each individual brings thier own basket of beliefs with them. They either want to impose their basket on other people through government force or they don't.
What is in the political party baskets at any one time is somewhat arbitrary and changes over time. Left and right wing are pure delusion.
well said
That is true the way a thermometer represents temperature on a straight line. Useful for boiling water, oversimplified for calculating sharknado landfall or work done by a heat engine. The Mystical component, the one that told Kings to Murder the Catholics, Hitler to murder the Jews; the one through which Allah told Mohammedans to murder infidels and fly planes into skyscrapers is ignored at the peril of the ignorant. Religious fanatics value death no less than collectivist herds. It is what separates them ethically from objectivists and libertarians. Why pretend otherwise?
The far right, Karl Hess wrote in Dear America, was the realm of "monarchy, absolute dictatorships, and other forms of absolutely authoritarian rule," be they fascist or Stalinist or anything else. The left, conversely, favored "the distribution of power into the maximum number of hands." And the "farthest left you can go, historically at any rate, is anarchism—the total opposition to any institutionalized power."
"We can't figure out when the left goes to far. Everyone seems to be able to work out when the right goes to far, but there's this notion that you can go left and left and left and there's no gulag at the end of it."
I think it's just easier and faster to join the "so-above-it-all" tribe.
Sorry, that tribe’s all full up. - Mike
Of course, because you shared the fun with Mort Sahl.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3DYd7m2DYA
Excellent breakdown of the state of the Biden Presidency.
The left, conversely, favored "the distribution of power into the maximum number of hands."
Not exactly. The Left wants the power in their own hands, a small number of the ruling elite. They attempt to achieve this by promising to distribute the money they take from others to a majority of the hands that vote. Threatening to take that money from the natural elite (those with the ability to accumulate wealth voluntarily in the free market) cuts down on the competition and helps cow the capitalists into supporting them too.
"Why do we refer to both Milton Friedman (a Jewish, pro-capitalist pacifist) and Adolf Hitler (an anti-Semitic, anti-capitalist militarist) as 'right wing' when they had opposite policy views on every point?"
Um, because they're both enemies to the real far Left, the Communists?
They were, but in the last twenty-five years the former left have been busy adopting the goals of the 18th-century French aristocracy and the policies of 1930's German radicals.
This is a guide to the things that people who call themselves libertarian believe, not a series of judgments on which of those people actually deserve to be called libertarian.
But deciding who's a real libertarian is half the fun.
That’s easy. If the worry is oppression then the person is a progressive. If they see enemies at the gates they’re a conservative. If the both the former and latter are all pissy at them because they doubt coercion is the answer, they’re libertarians.
Right. Hence the Nolan chart because a line is an overly simplistic misrepresentation of area just as a flat plane is a poorly inaccurate representation of volume. Sarcasmic evidently knows that area is length squared and volume length cubed, unlike most of the detractors. Jesse could profitably take note.
Where do you put the libertarians?
Inside a particularly small, origin-certified haggis that has been steeped in single malt on the 13th hole of St Andrews. You can sometimes hear them, during their brief moment, proclaiming:
The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men
Gang aft agley,
An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
For promis’d joy!
Where do we put assholes?
Wherever JFree is standing, and there is a large number of them all claiming that boot-licking is really good if it is Kiwi polish!
Fuck off and die, chicken little.
Hey! We're better than some cooked animal innard on a game field with 18 bases played in plaid pants!
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1660345152131547136?t=mGA3X7-mLvL3psamJaV-WQ&s=19
Sen. John Fetterman used to walk the halls of the Senate stone-faced and in formal suits. Now, he’s more relaxed, in hoodies and gym shorts.
People close to Fetterman say it's a sign of progress after six weeks of inpatient treatment for depression.
Well maybe we should get a reformed murderer to sit on the Supreme Court. THis reminds me of Christopher Hitchen's view of why Hillary wanted to be President
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE8PG2mpo58
He says we should mistrust people who run for office for therepeutic reasons (and the crowd , leftist crowd, laughs)
Age may not have given me wisdom, but it certainly has given me beaucoup perspective. I have found all such labels to cause more obfuscation than enlightenment over the years. Of course it depends on the purpose of the labeler - are they trying to misdirect for purposes of propaganda, or are they sincerely trying to use the label to facilitate communication. If you use labels to paper over discrepancies in your narrative hoping the listener won't notice, then the labels are very useful. If you're using the labels out of ignorance, then it doesn't really matter to the rest of us what you think.
"I have found all such labels to cause more obfuscation than enlightenment over the years. "
All words are mere labels when you come right down to it and get to brass tacks. Open to endless interpretation. I'm no philosopher, but I think that's what Derrida was getting at. There's no final reading to any given text. Many seem threatened by the idea, but it's always seemed to be liberatory to me.
You are, as is obvious, a POS academic who hopes to double the weekly hits on your worthless blog by posting here and hoping someone makes the mistake of clicking on your handle, right asshole?
Remember:
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
Derrida is hardly a philosopher !!!
If all words are mere labels then so are yours.
"If all words are mere labels then so are yours."
By Jacques he's got it.
The positions and attitudes of what defines the left and right shift over time, but that doesn't mean such designations are meaningless. We have a 2 party system due to how our elections work. If the Republican and Democrat parties were erased overnight then the population would split roughly 50-50 into 2 similar camps based on the most contentious issues of the day.
I think it's obtuse to pretend that there aren't distinct differences between the sides. It shows a laziness to recognize and evaluate the general defining themes as well as the exceptions.
The left is generally an authoritarian collectivist block that seeks endless radical change. Their only individualist impulse is in advocating for personal vice whilst also seeking to collectivize outcomes.
The right is generally more oriented towards individualism and freedom. They tend to be more focused on everyone taking care of themselves and doing as they wish so long as it doesn't harm others. Where they dip into collectivism is in adhering to traditional values and expecting a united culture when we do work together.
The one side seeks to aggressively divide and conquer while the other seeks to maintain and be left alone.
Yet your analysis misses the essential distinction both sides currently claim,, between ends and means.
You can support the same things but oppose how they are implemented , eg Minimum wage
and you can -- as you do --- see only one side as right because you thilnk that YOU are always right 🙂
You are not talking about the right but about Libertarianism. Principled conservatives generally reject Libertarianism
No, it is totally meaningless. Forget who said it, but if you have to reduce all political views to a 2-dimensional line, then folks who would despise each other end up together, like Ayn Rand, Wm F Buckley, and Hitler.
The only division that makes sense involves at least 3 elements 1) Is there a supreme rule in the person views, or do they serve 2 or more masters, as does Biden 2) Where is Prudence in the ruling of how to apply what is right to the current situation? See Kirk’s Politics of Prudence, or the way Lincoln handled slavery, or Burke’s strong statement “Prudence is not only the first in rank of the virtues political and moral, but she is the director, the regulator, the standard of them all. Metaphysics cannot live without definition; but prudence is cautious how she defines. Our courts cannot be more fearful in suffering fictitious cases to be brought before them for eliciting their determination on a point of law, than prudent moralists are in putting extreme and hazardous cases of conscience upon emergencies not existing.”
― Edmund Burke, Further Reflections on the Revolution in France
3) Most importantly (because the Clintons, Obama, esp Biden ) wiolate this all the time : Are you making things more perfect but avoiding the idea you can make things perfect. We were founded to establish a "MORE perfect union" so as to avoid the horrors associated with the extremism of the PERFECT
“Prudence”, there’s a word you don’t hear often in modern conversation. I bet if I ask my kids they have never even heard anyone talk about prudence.
Jesse ignoring the Nolan Chart? All the errors are like a painter, roofer or farmer using a straight line to calculate the area of a wall, roof or field, all of which require area which is length times length. Coercion is required by two different lines. Biblical altruism says to burn disobedient myscreants, especially Jews. Anarcho-communist dictatorship says to kill mystical religion-addicts. Right and left is all they see because their monofilament universe is horizontal. An added vertical line enables area. Libertarians float up, suicidal nihilists sink down. While mixed economy statists dutifully cling to their equivocating horizontal line.
It is sad that Reason has become one of the very worst comment boards on the internet. There used to be one or two partisans (Tony v. John) with a bunch of us independent types and the main argument was radical libertarianism vs. pragmatic libertarianism.
Now it is consumed by anti-science authoritarian Trumpists with no reading comprehension who make everything about fighting culture wars that run contrary to libertarianism and brainlessly and hyperbolically labelling run of the mill right of center neoliberal capitalist Democrats "communists"...and the proof is that they like "woke" stuff libertarians should support and agree with because it stems from centuries of government oppression.
Firing Shikha and tying your boat to Trumpism was a massive strategic blunder, Reason, and you have lost your old audience as a result.
The idea that Reason is any way aligned with the people in the comments (your terrible analysis of what they believe notwithstanding) is nutzo.
Shikha was fired because she was terrible at logic and myopically focused on immigration and only immigration, to the detriment of any other issue. Like a preacher blaming wicked hearts, if there were any problem in society, Shikha was going to lay at the foot of immigration restrictionists, even if that meant blaming them for the parochial politics of India.
If you actually care about the comments, you would put away the concern trolling and come in and make things better. But given how poorly your analysis has turned out so far, I doubt you have the capability to make any improvement.
I quit working at shop and now I make 65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new after 4 years it was so hard. Here’s what I do http://www.topearn7.com
On weekends, the undocumented staff tend to ignore patients while they smoke weed, and butt fuck. A true Reason environment.
"I’m sure your family’s military experience and hypothetical feelings for Soldier are important to you, but they aren’t important to this conversation."
Yeah, you are correct in that.
It's a copy and paste posting much of the time. As such, hard to be specific to the forum it's posted to.
How long has the NAACP have had travel advisories for Baltimore, Camden, Compton, and Chicago.
Copy and Paste wouldn't be in reply context. FYI.
What does a woman with one leg shorter than the other call herself?
I lean!
On the stripper pole?
Depends on which side of the stage you're on and where she is relative to the pole.
Also, dipshit, the point of my sarcastic post was making fun of the idea that traveling half an hour for groceries is some huge ordeal. It's very common here in rural America, especially the Rocky Mountain west. It's what we consider part of daily living.
Also, I swore an oath to the Constitution, which was written to limit the government not to control private actions of private people. When you legislate private, voluntary actions you are violating both the word and spirit of the Constitution and liberty.
There is only one amendment in the entire Constitution that pertains to the actions of private individuals, and that is the 13A. And that is a unique situation as the actions of the slave owner infringes and curtails and eliminates the liberty of the slave. The first however bars the government from passing laws that infringe upon freedom of association. It specifically bars the government from deciding what and who citizens can associate with.
What if she's Japanese?
A woman with one leg shorter than the other might refer to herself as having a leg length discrepancy or a leg length inequality. In a more casual or colloquial sense, she might simply describe herself as having one leg shorter than the other. It's important to approach such topics with sensitivity and respect, as individuals may have different preferences or ways of describing their condition.... https://dearlotteryresult.info/
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damn, RAO comes in with the 360 thunder dunk for the spambots
My sister was a polio victim (before the vaccine) and lived to age 89 with one leg considerably shorter and weaker than the other. She was a beautiful woman who could dance, swim, climb several floors throughout much of her life and raised a son. In her memory, I resent humorous references to her condition.