8 Reasons Why E. Jean Carroll Won Her Sexual Abuse and Defamation Lawsuit Against Trump
It is not hard to see why the jury concluded that the incident she described probably happened.

Four years ago, when former magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll first publicly claimed that Donald Trump had raped her in a department store dressing room, she was not sure of the exact date or even the year when that happened. Her account, which described an assault that she said she had suffered more than two decades before, was not supported by direct evidence, eyewitnesses, or a police report. Yesterday a federal jury in Manhattan nevertheless accepted the gist of her accusation, although its $5 million judgment against Trump was based on sexual abuse rather than rape, plus the conclusion that Trump had defamed Carroll by calling her a liar.
Trump's defenders dismissed the verdict as plainly irrational and politically motivated, suggesting that a fair assessment of Carroll's claims was more than could be expected in a city that overwhelmingly favored Trump's opponents in the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections. "In New York you can't get a fair trial," Trump's lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, complained. But there are several explanations for the outcome that do not hinge on assuming the jurors were so biased against Trump that they were determined to side with Carroll, regardless of what the evidence showed.
First, this was a civil trial, meaning the verdict was supposed to be based on a preponderance of the evidence, as opposed to the much more demanding standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is required for a criminal conviction. The question for the jurors was whether it was more likely than not that Trump had sexually assaulted Carroll.*
Second, two of Carroll's friends, journalist Lisa Birnbach and former TV anchor Carol Martin, testified that she had told them about the incident shortly after it happened. In the spring of 1996, Birnbach said, she received a distraught phone call from Carroll, who described a rape that was consistent with the account that she gave in 2019 and during the trial. Martin described a contemporaneous in-person conversation during which Carroll said "Trump attacked me" but did not use the word rape.
Third, two women, both of whom had previously told their stories publicly, testified that Trump had assaulted them, which Carroll's lawyers argued was part of a pattern. In the late 1970s, former stockbroker Jessica Leeds said, she was sitting next to Trump on a flight to New York when he "decided to kiss me and grope me," putting his hand up her skirt. In late 2005, former People magazine reporter Natasha Stoynoff said, she visited Mar-a-Lago while working on a story about Trump's first year of marriage to his current wife, Melania. Stoynoff testified that Trump suddenly pushed her up against a wall and began kissing her, leaving her "flustered and sort of shocked."
Fourth, Carroll's lawyers cited the notorious 2005 tape in which Trump bragged about grabbing women's genitals. "You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]," he told Access Hollywood's Billy Bush during that conversation, which came to light the month before the 2016 presidential election. "I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything." You can "grab 'em by the pussy," he added. "You can do anything."
Fifth, Trump did himself no favors during a deposition in which Carroll's lead lawyer, Roberta Kaplan, asked him about those remarks. "Well, historically that's true with stars," he said. "It's true with stars that they can grab women by the pussy?" Kaplan asked. "If you look over the last million years," Trump replied, "I guess that's been largely true, not always, but largely true—unfortunately or fortunately." When Kaplan asked if Trump considered himself "a star," he said, "I think you can say that, yeah."
Sixth, Trump insisted that he did not know Carroll, despite photographic evidence that they had met, and his denial of her charges hinged largely on his claim that "she's not my type"—as if he could imagine behaving as Carroll claimed he had with a woman he found more attractive. Kaplan noted that when she showed Trump a picture of Carroll greeting him at a social event in the 1980s, he mistook her for Marla Maples, his second wife. "The truth is that E. Jean Carroll, a former cheerleader and Miss Indiana, was exactly Donald Trump's type," Kaplan told the jury.
Seventh, Tacopina argued that Carroll's accusation, which she first publicly lodged in a 2019 memoir that was excerpted in New York magazine, was financially and politically motivated. But the idea that she had suddenly invented the story to boost sales of her memoir was contradicted by Birnbach and Martin's testimony. And if Carroll's aim was to hurt Trump's prospects as a presidential candidate, you might think she would have made the accusation in 2016. Carroll said she did not initially report the assault because she worried about the consequences of accusing a wealthy and prominent man, which was consistent with the advice that Martin said she regretted giving her at the time. Carroll said she was emboldened to come forward by the #MeToo movement, which is consistent with the timing of her public account.
Eighth, although Trump complains that he was not allowed to present his side of the story, he chose not to take the stand or even attend the trial. Michael Ferrara, one of Carroll's lawyers, emphasized that point toward the end of the trial. "He just decided not to be here," Ferrara told the jury. "He never looked you in the eye and denied raping Ms. Carroll."
The jurors notably did not accept Carroll's characterization of her encounter with Trump as rape, which under New York law requires "sexual intercourse," meaning penile penetration. But they did conclude it was more likely than not that Trump had "sexually abused" Carroll, which involves nonconsensual sexual contact, and "forcibly touched" her, which involves touching "the sexual or other intimate parts of another person for the purpose of degrading or abusing such person, or for the purpose of gratifying the actor's sexual desire."
Tacopina argues that the distinction drawn by the jury makes the verdict "strange." But you can also view it as a sign that the jurors were not as biased against Trump as his supporters claim and that they made a serious attempt to assess the evidence. While Birnbach's testimony supported the rape claim, for example, Martin's testimony was consistent with the characterization on which the jury settled.
Although the jury heard only from Carroll, Leeds, and Stoynoff, nearly two dozen other women have publicly accused Trump of sexual assault or harassment. Several of them described behavior strikingly similar to what Trump has said a "star" like him can get away with. In light of that history, a fair-minded person might reasonably conclude that he probably did something like what Carroll described, even without the benefit of the evidence presented during the trial.
According to Trump, of course, all of those women are lying. Like every other accusation against him, he says, their stories are part of a long-running Democratic "witch hunt."
Even after a jury concluded that Trump had defamed Carroll by calling her story "a complete con job," "a Hoax," and "a lie," he was undeterred. "I have no idea who this woman, who made a false and totally fabricated accusation, is," he wrote on Truth Social this morning.
"Somehow we're going to have to fight this stuff," Trump added. "We cannot let our country go into this abyss. This is disgraceful."
As usual, Trump conflates the country's fate with his own. But he is right that the verdict against him is further evidence of something disgraceful, although not in the way he means.
*Clarification: For Carroll's defamation claim, the standard was the intermediate "clear and convincing evidence," both with regard to whether Trump's statements were false and with regard to whether he made them with "actual malice."
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Was not convicted of rape. Said he did not rape her. Jury said he did not rape her.
Who are you arguing with? Responding to?
Those are called statements.
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You, Jeff, Spam, M4E in the earlier thread claiming trials are never corrupt or biased.
There was no way that this was not going to go against the president. A shitty NY judge, and a shitty leftist democrat jury were always going to find him liable. Once this gets out of the democrat Romper Room, the verdict will go bye bye.
This woman "won" just like Joey Sponge-brain Shits-pants "won".
The fix was in.
The verdict should be vacated once it comes before a non democrat judge.
I don't believe I ever said anything like you are saying here. What I have said is that there was sufficient evidence for the jury to find for the plaintiff. Mr. Sullum has laid out the case nicely in the article. The fact that you don't like a verdict does not suggest it is wrong. In the same way that not liking an election outcome means there was fraud.
Sullum didn’t present evidence. He presented one sided testimony, hearsay, and unrelated hearsay.
I do believe we discussed hearsay in the other column's comments, and I don't think we had any hearsay in this case. Witness testimony was in support of the plaintiff's testimony and that is allowed.
Yes. You've proven you are too lazy to educate yourself on what terms mean. That was discussed prior as well.
No, I did look up the term and its legal use and it is exactly as I have stated. If you have a different definition please cite it. I doubt you will because you generally don't support what you say.
Repeating your lies and ignorance after being slapped down doesn’t make your lies and ignorance true.
How many years after this terrible vicious heinous afront was it?
A normal woman would have said something had occurred.
This woman who has a payday coming is an author of fictionbooks and a known 'fabulist". Grandiosity and the call of fame and fortune had her present in this "Get Trump by Law-fare" episode five (and counting). Hopefully an appeal court will be more balanced than this farce of a showl trial.
No, that NYC leftist activist prosecution, and judge along with a jury of Trumps "peers" arrived at a judgement in what less than an hour? Every single one imvolved a Democrat were only bound to give an impartial verdict ? Bille B what is your angle brud?
"A normal woman would have said something had occurred."
No, rape is the most under reported violent crime with an estimate that only about one third are reported to police. So normal woman don't report rapes.
Huh? I'd say it's a little sketchy how many rapes have occurred, when they aren't reported. Frankly, I have little faith in such surveys. Understand, if a guy grabs a woman and rapes her, my solution is, take him out back and shoot him. I have zero tolerance. But that zero tolerance doesn't mean I'm going to presume the worse, based on ZERO evidence.
This woman, by her own account, went into a dressing room with Trump, to examine see through lingerie. Does that sound like something your mother would do? It is no stretch at all to think that she was a willing participant to what happened. Perhaps Trump became too physical too quickly, and she left in disgust. That's not rape, And it isn't worthy of a lawsuit, all these years later, that we all KNOW is political.
Apparently, these clowns think they're turning people away from Trump. If they had functional brain cells, they would have noticed years ago, that the more they persecute him, the more his poll numbers go up. We are seeing progressivism in its final death throes. And good riddance.
Seems irrelevant given Trump, even according to a laughable trial, did not do that.
with an estimate that only about one third are reported to police
I estimate that claim is bullshit.
Oh here this took 10 seconds:
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/sexual-assault-remains-dramatically-underreported
And you know what? I have no problem believing these stats.
Being sexually assaulted is embarrassing, at least in the victim's mind. Gee, maybe because the system has traditionally been very abusive and dismissive of sexual assault victims. We saw some of those tropes come out of Tacobana and trump's mouth. Unbelievable they spewed the things they did, straight out of the misogynist playbook I thought got banned in the 50's. Well it should have been...
It's much better now, but in the good ol' days you really had to have some guts to see your assault through the legal system. If you are a guy who has been raped, it's ten times worse.
I worked at a university and had many students I worked with, men and women. The number of women who told me they had been sexually assaulted in some manner just blew my mind. Like two out of three I'd guess. Maybe not according to the full legal definition of rape (see NY state definition presented earlier), but these women had definitely been subjected to trumpesque perversion, disrespect, humiliation, pain and embarrassment.
It didn't surprise me that Carroll couldn't even bring herself to tell her friends she had been raped. Again keep the year in mind this occurred: Sexual assault victims are treated a bit more compassionately now, but that has been a very slow shift in attitudes.
So yeah, she didn't run home and call her friends. "I was raped!". She didn't call the cops. She just buried it in her psyche.
I hope she enjoys the crap out of her five million, but money will never fix the things she and others have been through.
The resident Communist propagandist who’s such a pathetic, brainless liar that he couldn’t even praise this Moscow Show Trial without tripping over his own contradictions and inadvertently admitting he’s a lying sack of shit.
Obviously.
Is that Sullum, Larson or any of the other lefties posting here?
If you are referring to Sullum, he didn’t say that Trump raped Carroll, so it couldn’t be him that damikesc is responding to.
He's responding to Sullum. moron.
He's responding to Sullum, moron.
“when former magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll first publicly claimed that Donald Trump had raped her in a department store dressing room, she was not sure of the exact date or even the year when that happened. “
It’s probably a response to this part of the article in the very first paragraph. You’re welcome my friend.
Like Christine Blasey-Ford, she made sure to give no detail that might make it possible for the accused to find an alibi.
Julian Assange was charged with rape by two Swedish women who did have sex with him but claimed he did not wear a condom and therefore a sex crime. The charges were bogus but allowed the Brits to snag him and lock him up, which was the plan, keeping him isolated while charges of espionage were being concocted by Britain and the US. Assange’s only sin was to expose the US and UK war crimes in the illegal war against Iraq, nothing different than what Elsberg had done during the Vietnam war. The same tactics are being used to keep Trump from running. You can sue anyone for anything, throw in a corrupt judge and some dubious witnesses and you win all the time. I have said to my friend if the US government (deep state) does not like you, they will find any kind of reason to jail you. I am not a great fan of Trump, but is it not coincidental that all these charges pop up when he is staged to run and win the next election? The US has taken over where the Soviet Union had left off, it is anything but a democracy. FREE JULIAN ASSANGE!
Trump is a rapist and thuggish pervert. That's indisputable.
And you have children buried in your basement.
How is it “indisputable”?
EdG is a lying pile of TDS-addled shit.
Being found liable in a civil suit does not exclude you from running for president.
Being a TDS-addled shit-pile excluded you from any recognized level of intelligence.
TDS? Oh, no, I'm afraid you're wrong on that one. This worm you elected for president will not slink away.
Now ODS? Oh, yeah, that and CDS (Clinton) is still terminal for you people. Comically so.
And your BDS is pretty bad, too, you shit-for-brains trogtard.
Note to foreign readers: The other half of the Looter Kleptocracy is finally deploying its own infiltrators. The downside is they use the same casting agency as the Grabbers Of Pussy.
Julian Assange has admitted violently restraining and raping two women while they screamed/cried, struggled, and begged him to stop. His defence was that it wasn't legally rape, not that the facts as alleged were untrue. Obviously it was in fact rape.
Assange supposedly fled from Sweden, which has a much more complicated extradition treaty with the US, to the UK, which has a no-questions-asked extradition treaty with the US, because he was worried about being extradited to the US.
Assange cultists and Trump cultists are very much cut of the same cloth.
Do you have a link supporting that claim? Otherwise, you’re a damned liar. The women did not claim physical coercion of any sort, but only that he sneakily removed his condom.
Did you really just post a whole bunch of lies in order to mock "Trump and Assange" cultists?
You aren't playing with a full deck, are you?
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I hate when I get suckered into reading articles containing purported legal reasoning when they are written by journalists with absolutely no legal knowledge who are too lazy to consult an actual lawyer.
It is not hard to see why the jury concluded that the incident she described probably happened.
Her account, which described an assault that she said she had suffered more than two decades before, was not supported by direct evidence, eyewitnesses, or a police report.
Journalisming
But you can also view it as a sign that the jurors were not as biased against Trump as his supporters claim and that they made a serious attempt to assess the evidence. While Birnbach's testimony supported the rape claim, for example, Martin's testimony was consistent with the characterization on which the jury settled.
Not supported by direct evidence, eyewitnesses, or a police report but the unbiased jury made a serious attempt to assess the evidence that doesn't even rise to the level of circumstantial.
In light of that history, a fair-minded person might reasonably conclude that he probably did something like what Carroll described, even without the benefit of the evidence presented during the trial.
A similarly fair-minded person might reasonably conclude that Sullum fucks goats, even without the benefit of evidence presented at trial.
A farmer friend of mine in Irian Jaya swears Sullum fucked every last goat he had back in 1982. He died back in 1995 but maybe I can be called as a witness.
I find that statement to be unimpeachable.
We know for certain that Sullum lies.
Every word he says is a lie. Even “And” and “The”.
And thus can be inferred via preponderance of the evidence to fuck goats.
She should have accused Trump of murdering her, and when the jury didn't believe that, they could have just found him liable for assault and battery.
This!
This is essentially what the jury did. And it isn’t legal. The moment this travesty is put in front of a real judge, the verdict will be vacated.
I'm skeptical. Trump has much better taste in women than that.
Melania is a buttaface.
Now Marla Maples was primo.
Turns out buttplug is blind. Who knew?
Everybody who remembers his pathetic attempts to misconstrue Moochelle as “classy and lovely”?
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
And wasn't that who he mistook E. Jean Carroll for, when he was shown a photo?
Jean Carroll was attractive in a Marla Maples way when she was younger
Plus there was zero evidence. This Carroll bitch was in a photo with him from ages ago? How many photos like that does Trump take every year? Like he even knows who all these people. No one like him does.
Really? He does? He mistook a photo of E. Jean Carroll for his own wife of those days, Marla Maples. Explain that.
E. Jean Carroll was a beauty contestant. She is exactly Trump’s type. The problem for him was, he wasn’t her type.
Cool story bro. Got any more bullshit to peddle.
"Michael Ferrara, one of Carroll's lawyers, emphasized that point toward the end of the trial. "He just decided not to be here," Ferrara told the jury. "He never looked you in the eye and denied raping Ms. Carroll."
British lawyer Shrike (SRG) was just repeating this point in the Roundup thread, like he thought of it himself instead of actually quoting her lawyer verbatim.
Trump would've been an idiot to appear in front of such an obviously compromised judge, in a hostile state, in a trial funded by a Dem billionaire. There would've been guaranteed contempt and lying under oath charges no matter what he said or did.
The Carroll's lawyers knew this, Sullum knows this, SRG knows this, Trump's own lawyers knew this, we all know this.
I never said that I was a lawyer, only that I studied law - or rather, jurisprudence as the degree is called - at the Queen's College, Oxford. (It seems that both you and JesseAZ now deem me to be British shrike, which, as it's not the famous original shrike, I have no issue with - not that you'd care, of course.)
At the time of Trump's declining to testify I had indeed thought of the "looking the jury in the eye" myself - it's a standard and obvious cliché. Hence I did not feel the need to credit the attorney. I note that a couple of points that Sullum makes here about the poor defence I'd already made earlier (in two different threads, IIRC). Presumably you think that I used a time machine to send Sullum's column back to me so I could copy the points before Sullum had posted them. Or perhaps they're just bleeding obvious.
Calm down British Shrike. We don't actually think you're British. Just playing along with your claims. Being shrike on the other hand... I mean same exact talking points, same deference to the left/Open Societies, same epitaphs, same behaviors...
Actually, by now you probably do think I'm British, but find it appropriate to lie and pretend that I am a shrike sock. Either that or you really are an utter fuckwit - a proposition for which there is some evidence.
I mean same exact talking points, same deference to the left/Open Societies, same epitaphs, same behaviors…
What deference to the left? Hostility to the current right, sure, but that's not the same thing, and I have often advanced the pro-capitalism line. The Open Society is a very good idea, of course, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Society_and_Its_Enemies
though the fact that Soros is involved would be enough for you to indulge your bigotry
What epitaphs do you mean? If you mean epithets, I doubt you can supply too many instances where he and I use the same epithets (IIRC your first accusation that I was a sock rested on my use of an insult - Trumpsucker - that shrike had never used) - though you're enough of a cretin that you might then assert that the absence of similarities is merely an attempt to hide that I am a sock, and "same behaviours" is far too subjective. Were I to use the same argument, half a dozen posters here could easily be claimed to be your sock. Perhaps everyone who calls me shrike is one of your socks - because that is the same claim and term.
Opposing, or even criticising, Soros is not a sign of bigotry. Considering how he made billions, it is merely an indication of good taste. And plenty of Jews feel this way, so relax on the "anti-Semite" garbage.
Is there anything more perverse than defending an actual nazi with charges of antisemitism?
It's impressively tasteless.
Soros was not a Nazi.
Yes. Just a sympathizer who worked with them. Much better.
And Soros is spending some serious coin to coddle child rapists. No wonder Shrike has pledged his soul to him.
"Presumably you think that I used a time machine to send Sullum’s column back to me so I could copy the points before Sullum had posted them. Or perhaps they’re just bleeding obvious."
I never mentioned Sullum's column. I said you were quoting her lawyer. This was obviously not the first article you saw about this.
And while you're trying to pretend it's "bleeding obvious", the fact that you earlier used the same colloquialism as the lawyer tells us otherwise.
I used similar arguments to Sullum's. And yes, looking someone in the eye is an old cliché but apparently you think that everyone needs to be spoonfed.
Sullum is a moron and ignoramus. Much like you.
And uses the same exact talking points and epitaph here as he does on every sock.
Good work shrike.
Epitaphs again, you ignorant cracker?
You can tell he is British (or at least studied there)... notice the choice of spelling when typing 'poor defence.' Any U.S. attorney would have wrote 'defense.'
I made many of the same points as Sullum here and agree with SRG that they are indeed bloody obvious.
I suggest if you want to know why he lost and why he did not so much as attend the trial let alone testify during it... just watch the deposition clips that have been released on the internet. No sane lawyer would put that buffoon anywhere near a witness stand subject to cross examination by an unattractive (according to him in the deposition) female attorney.
Canadians use the same british spelling, and look at his older posts and they are often missing the british spelling. He claims to have been here since the 90s. LOL.
If you can't defeat the argument, attack your opponent on a personal level.
What argument?
Hey, the TDS-addled shit pile read that someplace.
No argument was put forth.
Nope. All my posts from the beginning have British spelling because that's how I spell - except where I use a quote from an American.
Why don't you prove it with one of these alleged older posts, you fucking liar?
Lol, I’m Canadian and use “defence” too. Just change your phone settings to English (CA)… or Australia, South Africa, India or New Zealand for that matter. It takes two seconds.
...
Also quit fucking samefagging your own posts. You're not tricking anyone.
First, you know damn well that I'm British because you know that I even posted a copy of my British passport with enough info to prove it, though perhaps to support the rest of your right-wing buddies you will now pretend that you don't recall. FWIW I don't use my phone for this site, I use my PC.
Still, it's not a matter of spelling- as you correctly point out - which shows that on occasion you can post the truth - that can be fixed with a smartphone setting. It's a matter of style and vocabulary, and - again, as you well know - my style and vocabulary are nothing like shrikes, but are definitely British. Or are you going to lie about that?
He actually admitted you were right in another thread Jesse. There is no way shrike would ever do that. Not even to try and stay in character.
Doesn’t even matter to me if he is. As stated their talking points are exactly the same. Whether shrike or a shrike NPC it doesn't matter.
Fair enough.
If he were telling the truth; but as he's an inveterate lying cunt, he's not.
Jesse tells the truth. You’re a liar.
Case closed.
But you're still lying about talking points as I pointed out earlier, and indeed it seems that the one thing that you're better at than I am is lying.
THIS is the important news today!
Pay no attention to the bank records behind the curtain!
https://thefederalist.com/2023/05/10/doj-strategically-timed-political-arrest-to-coincide-with-press-conference-detailing-evidence-of-biden-corruption/
https://thefederalist.com/2023/05/10/bidens-made-millions-exchanging-political-favors-for-foreign-money-then-tried-to-cover-it-up-oversight-report/
“The Department of Justice coincidentally decided to arrest New York GOP Rep. George Santos on money laundering and other charges on Wednesday at the same time House Republicans held a press conference revealing damaging evidence about the Biden family’s corrupt, foreign business ventures.”
Amazing coincidence. Weird how these sort of concurrences just happen lately.
This is pretty thin gruel, even for Sullum. He basically takes all the bullshit hearsay evidence and character attacks and pretends it is meaningful. I hope Sullum gets better due process if he is ever on the wrong side of #metoo. Though he really does not deserve it.
I hope Sullum gets literally beheaded.
Don't forget ignoring all of the rulings by the judge to eliminate most defensive plans by Trump's team such as:
Not allowing discussion of who funded her lawsuit
Not allowing discussions on her book which claims she is assaulted many times
Not allowing discussion of her lying about her suit being funded during depositions
Sullum also ignores the fact the NY State Legislature specifically passed a bill that would extend the statute of limitations for sexual assaults for only one year, to allow Carroll to file this lawsuit which otherwise would have been disallowed as beyond the SOLs. Clearly a political move to harm Trump personally and politically.
Sounds very close to a bill of attainder.
Are you sure about that?
On another thread, someone was claiming the motivation for the unusual extension was to allow people to sue the Catholic Church for abusing them when they were younger.
$5 million is nothing. He should hit Jared up for some of that $2 billion the Trumps got from the Saudis.
Makes Hunter Biden look like a pauper.
Except Hunter’s countless billion-dollar backdoor deals with America’s enemies actually happened.
Except Trump's countless trillion-dollar perfect deals with everybody he's ever dealt with never happened.
Was that supposed to mean something?
Shhh, poor Ed is in the final stages of TDS.
We can hope.
Those Trump towers don't exist. Right?
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Levels of cope i never thought possible to see at Reason.
Third, two women, both of whom had previously told their stories publicly, testified that Trump had assaulted them, which Carroll’s lawyers argued was part of a pattern. In the late 1970s, former stockbroker Jessica Leeds said, she was sitting next to Trump on a flight to New York when he “decided to kiss me and grope me,” putting his hand up her skirt. In late 2005, former People magazine reporter Natasha Stoynoff said, she visited Mar-a-Lago while working on a story about Trump’s first year of marriage to his current wife, Melania. Stoynoff testified that Trump suddenly pushed her up against a wall and began kissing her, leaving her “flustered and sort of shocked.”
Fourth, Carroll’s lawyers cited the notorious 2005 tape in which Trump bragged about grabbing women’s genitals. “You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful [women],” he told Access Hollywood’s Billy Bush during that conversation, which came to light the month before the 2016 presidential election. “I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.” You can “grab ’em by the pussy,” he added. “You can do anything.”
So Carroll’s unproven allegation was backed up by two other unproven allegations against Trump plus his 2005 comment about what he consensually did with women. The term “show trial” comes to mind.
I don't think the 2005 tape is proof of any wrongdoing. But the consent there is really only assumed by Trump and we have only his "locker room talk" to back it up.
It's all pretty weak shit for a court case from what I can see.
The consent for an imaginary scenario is assumed? Do continue.
"They let you", key word let.
"I imagine they let me", key word imagine.
Are you citing a specific example where he did so without consent?
No, it's just one more TDS-addled steaming pile of shit, inventing lies as required.
That was the dot connection for the jury.
The judge told them that any unwanted touching at all made him guilty. Even an innocuous peck on the cheek.
So they could play him saying that he would just kiss them... They let you.
That is all they needed.
So even though they didn't believe the bulk of her story, the judge gave them an easy path to split the baby.
Could you believe a rape in a crowded store in a curtained changing room? No.
But could you believe that he made a pass at her? Maybe pulled her in for a kiss after flirting and she rebuffed his advances and they went their separate ways? Sure, you could believe that.
That was the trap they laid. Connecting that to a defamation claim is ludicrous- if you didn't believe the rape claim you cannot believe the denial is defamatory.
But the judge painted them a path to an easy compromise.
The pattern of behavior that I see here isn't Trump's behavior, but radical leftist women piling on with lies supporting a dubious accusation. It's just like when Christine Blasey-Ford made an accusation against Kavanaugh that was devoid of any details that could be used to support or disprove her claims, and was then joined by other women who were soon proven to be lying.
It is, however, hard to see why Sullum hasn't been lynched yet.
He lost because the “trial” was in New York City.
Or because, you know, there was actually a reasonable likelihood that he did what he was accused of.
What in particular made it reasonable to think so?
Because he’s a fucking moron who thinks its Kosher for the Democrats to endlessly blame everyone else for what they openly do,
So you didn't read the article at the top of this thread then, where that is made clear.
Meanwhile, how about some evidence for your claim that the trial's being in NYC was the reason he lost - and by implication, that the allegations were untrue?
Overall in New York City, Biden received 2,321,759 votes, 76%, to Trump’s 691,682 votes, or 23%; a margin of 1,630,077. In 2016, Hillary Clinton 79% won of the vote to Trump’s 18%.
Might have something to do with it. Maybe.
That's not evidence that the jury was biased against him in consideration of the facts. As has been noted, the defence could challenge jurors, and they didn't find the rape allegation likely.
The fact of the jury bias is made plain by their finding for a plaintiff who is less believable than Anita Hill.
-jcr
better evidence than presented at this show-trial
So, you didn’t read the article at the top of this page, where this site’s resident lying hack trips over his own contradictions, lies and slips up and admits the lack of evidence.
Meanwhile, how about you provide a REAL argument, instead of this tired, failed Democrat brand of “where’s your evidence that we have no evidence?!” gaslighting.
Was it this part that convinced you?
was not supported by direct evidence, eyewitnesses, or a police report.
The jurors notably did not accept Carroll's characterization of her encounter with Trump as rape,
Not sure how you can defame someone that accuses you of rape that a jury says didn't happen.
"Or because, you know, there was actually a reasonable likelihood that he did what he was accused of..."
So he didn't prove his innocence, you obnoxiously arrogant POS?
https://twitter.com/ltthompso/status/1656373551060905985?t=LMwaFKYQBfkjpqatnJpA6g&s=19
Your headline should be “Bank Records Prove Biden Family Took Millions from Foreign Sources.” That’s it. That’s the story. Write it and own it you cowards.
If Hackjob Sullum touches that story, it’ll just be to gaslight and endlessly demand that we don’t look at all that evidence that totally doesn’t exist, and you’re Literally Hitler if you do.
https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1656364528056037401?t=veKyAYoXWS8ihaTnjLUOIw&s=19
Woah this is insane. In Loudon County, VA a bunch of leftists associated to many elected Democrats had a secret group where they plotted revenge against parents who spoke up at school board meetings. It included threats of shooting parents and evil attempts to get parents fired!
A real estate agent helped this group get the addresses of parents. Sounds a lot like a Democrat domestic terror cell to me. Where are the feds to raid and arrest them?
Arrest them? They started the group!
Where are the feds to raid and arrest them?
Arresting the parents instead.
This is old news, but I don't recall Reason covering it or charges ever being filed
Oh, they're taking up tactics used normally by the right-wing Christians! Oh, my.
You should definitely kill yourself before you get what you have coming.
Nardz’s leftist kill count: 0
*this is in no way advocating violence. Simply pointing out what giant pussies Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud are.
Poor soy.
The Carroll botch could not even specify the year when this took place.
It does not even rise to probable cause.
Imagine if someone said, "I saw Jacob Sullum stab a girl and throw her off a bridge into the Merced River in Yosemite in the 1990's. No, I don't know exactly which year."
And I saw it 15 times!
as long as people remember you said it then is totally not hearsay.
I don't know what year I did anything except be born and graduate high school.
Sexual assault victims famously fail to get justice because of the he said/she said nature of the crime and poor memories.
All that had to be proved was that it was 51% likely that Trump did what Trump admitted to doing to women all the time.
“The court system is supposed to operate like an Orwell novel because I’m a fucking moron with a shit memory.” -Tony
Now apply your bullshit to the serial rapes committed by your cultmasters Bill Clinton and Dictator Biden, Tony.
Unlike you freaks, I don't mind if criminals receive justice even if they're Democrats.
Your filthy politicians are spending millions of your taxpayer money investigating the Bidens, just as they did the Clintons before them, so they are welcome to actually find something.
That’s why your worthless cultist ass literally can’t go five seconds without proclaiming aforementioned cultmasters above the law, right, shithead?
Laughable statement from a subnormal buffoon. Tony absolutely will defend all democrats no matter what.
Bill Clinton didn't even know that woman. It was a witch hunt. Joe Biden didn't even know that woman. It was a witch hunt.
Is that why he settled with them?
If Monica Lewinsky came out now with the blue dress and her allegations, you might have a fucking point.
That would at least be material evidence and there exists enough evidence to suggest the opportunity existed.
Even then, if Lewinsky came out 20 years later with her story I'd have to say there's nothing that can be done about it at this point regardless of whether I believe him guilty
Exactly.
except a dna test on the dress stain
Here's what the huge difference is. Monica Lewinsky actually liked Clinton, and it was her friend--Linda Tripp, I think her name was--is the person who exposed that affair. But that doesn't matter, because having an affair is not against the law.
Suborning perjury and obstruction of justice very much are and he did both.
Failure to provide a specific year means it does not even get to 10%.
This case didn’t even hit 1%. Carroll is a kook, and you’re an idiot.
https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/1656024773338570789
So, like George Santos?
Such as when Biden blurted out his confession?
While speaking at the National Education Association headquarters in Washington D.C., President Biden pointed to a woman in the crowd.
You gotta say hi to me," the president said to the woman, who he apparently recognized. "We go back a long way. She was 12, I was 30. But anyway, this woman helped me get an awful lot done."
Did she even know which department store it was?
Yes. And the store had attendants and locked dressing rooms as she testified to all the time. Except this one time in their history.
What a coincidence. And anyone who believes that should buy one of the many bridges I'm selling.
The one with the beige ceilings in the dressing rooms.
I don't know how a case can proceed on a charge with no material evidence, no date given for the offense, and decades of time elapsed since the alleged assault.
There simply is nothing there to establish guilt unless the defendant offers incriminating testimony. There isn't enough specificity in the claim to even seek an alibi.
There is nothing to establish that the plaintiff and defendant were in the same location at the same time. Forget a preponderance of evidence substantiating the charge when there is nothing to even suggest there was an opportunity.
This is bullshit.
There are 2 reasons he lost this:
1. Trump is hated by the left
2. Judge, jury, and others involved are leftists
The decades of time issue had NY pass a law a year or so ago permitting it.
something something Ruling Crime Family maybe?
The thing that gets me about Trump is that if he is convicted of something, he says it is catastrophic for the whole Country. If there is one trait that nearly all political leaders share, it is that they have delusions of grandeur about how much of a difference they can make.
So show trials with zero evidence and a biased to the point of corrupt judge is your standard of a fair trial? GFY you marxist scum.
Gotta give him credit, though. His deluded cultists continue to send him money no matter how much truth is revealed about him. He's good at scamming his sheeple.
What truth has been revealed about him? Confessing to being brainwashed by allegations and innuendoes and believing they are truths is good for the soul. Feel better?
A political trial meant to knock out the leading candidate for a major political party? Not important, why should anyone care, right?
This is an excellent summary of the case and why the verdict was what it was. The plaintiff's lawyers did a good job presenting. I don't think the defense lawyers did a good job but they were also hampered by their client. Trump paid good money for lawyers him might do himself a favor and listen to them.
"Trump paid good money for lawyers"
Since when?
Guess he should have had the backing of Democrat billionaires.
I thought you people loved Trump because he doesn't pay anyone who worked for him. Good businessman or some shit.
Admittedly, it's peak libertarian.
Nah, you’re thinking off all those unpaid Hillary and Obama staff.
Because you’re a lying, projecting moron. Like all Communists.
Tony, it’s going to be a good day for this country when you and your fellow travelers removed from it forever.
Elmer Fudd the Chud’s leftist kill count: 0
*this is in no way advocating violence. Simply pointing out what giant pussies Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud are.
Simply pointing out what giant pussies Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud are.
Are they, though? I notice you haven't posted your address.
But he's a Republic billionaire. Why would he need anyone else's money? Or are you admitting he's not a billionaire and all of his claims to be one are fraudulent?
But you're a steaming pile of TDS-addled shit. Why should anyone believe your lies?
8 Reasons Why E. Jean Carroll Won Her Sexual Abuse and Defamation Lawsuit Against Trump
1. Orange
2. Man
3. Bad
4. Mean
5. Tweets
6. Election
7. Year
8. Soon
Your characterization of sexual assault in this case is not accurate.
The judge gave explicit instructions on this point. He said that if you find that he gave her so much as an innocent peck on the cheek that was unwanted, you must find for the plaintiff.
You also leave out most of the important relevant facts behind Trump's insistence that this is a witch hunt. Is it fun to be the 73rd most read author carrying this same bucket of water? Don't you have any original thoughts to add? Why do we need you when we have everyone else saying the same thing? This looks like you are summarizing your thoughts after reading the times, Atlantic. Vox, CNN....
There is no way a libertarian watches a state change the law just to allow a single person to be sued, a lawsuit based on the dubious premise of a public rape in a curtained changing room 30 years ago and thinks "yup.. we need to be on this bandwagon".
There is no chance that reason would be cheering if some poor illegal immigrant were being tried for an assault he denies under conditions like this. Libertarians would be on the side of substantive due process. There is no chance we would cheer extending the statute of limitations for one case. Or allowing unsubstantiated claims of prior bad acts. These are real easy calls for an actual believer in civil liberties, however much we might dislike the protagonist of this little morality play.
You guys need to go back to civil liberties class.
A civil jury trial is due process.
Especially when the Judge uses his magic hammer to change the law as it suits the political party he serves.
Sour grapes, how shocking.
The worthless Communist liar who has done nothing with his empty life for the past 20 years but whine into the comments section of this page about how bad everyone is for not believing his sociopathic bullshit is a worthless Communist liar. How shocking,
And, I know you’re a complete fucking moron, but you should learn what terms like “Sour Grapes” mean before using them.
You’ll look ever so slightly less like the braindead, shut-in failure that you are.
I mean you inbred monsters love the criminal justice system when it's locking up black people for life on the word of a blind grandmother or murdering them for standing on the street.
Would it have been better if Trump had just been choked to death pretrial?
Gee, isn’t it funny how you child-raping monsters only want to “abolish the police” when they’re protecting people from violent criminals (or adjacent when worthless thugs like George Floyd overdose on fentanyl), and never hold the justice system accountable they’re ACTUALLY abusing their power to target innocent parties?
Is that because you’re a lying, hypocritical waste of life, do you thibk?
But you're only claiming Trump is innocent because you're a brainwashed Trump cultist. You literally worship him like a Melanesian to a toaster. The very fact that you can't believe Donald Trump of all people is possibly a bit of a pussy grabber when he's famously on video admitting to grabbing pussy, testifies to the sorry, pickled state of your brain.
And it's only $5 million. He's got billions, right? Sometimes pussy costs a little unforeseen scratch, right?
Yes. The world would be an actively better place if Tony executed himself.
Can you, uh, present an example of either?
I can guarantee your reaction will be substantially different when republicans start forum shopping for future prosecutions and lawsuits of democrats, like you.
But then, hypocrisy is a cornerstone of your existence.
Wait, this site still pretends to be Libertarian?
And you still pretend to be sane?
That's called "projection", steaming pile of TDS-addled shit.
"The judge gave explicit instructions on this point. He said that if you find that he gave her so much as an innocent peck on the cheek that was unwanted, you must find for the plaintiff."
Got a citation for this statement?
It was in the jury instructions.
It is also accurate. Battery is unwanted touching. Sexual battery is unwanted contact of a sexual nature. So an attempted kiss on the cheek would count, even if it was intended as a nothing burger greeting but was received as unwanted.
His characterization did a good job of framing the easy out for the jury though. Anyone could believe that happened.
But he never met her, so how could he kiss her on the cheek?
Did you have a point, other than to display your stupidity?
Where is the evidence he ever met her except the one time?
I think you have exaggerated the category unwanted touching. Yes a friendly peck on the cheek could meet the standard, but I don't think the jury would award for that happening. I also believe that the lawyers get a say in the jury form, so Trump lawyers would have allowed for that to be included in battery.
The judge is the ultimate arbiter of his instruction. That it is so specifically tilted is telling. This was noted at the time by many court observers.
It must actually be psychologically straining for you people to sit there day in, day out, insisting that the most brazenly corrupt human in the history of the earth has done literally nothing wrong.
Maybe he should have tried something better than "It's not rape if you're a star."
>>has done literally nothing wrong.
Brandon does have half the family in on it for shade
Or maybe you should finally realize that just because you’re a lying, sociopathic Commie waste of life who’s dumb enough to believe his own bullshit doesn’t mean anyone else will.
And then go take a bath with a toaster.
Having your brains pickled by pro-Republican propaganda has made you people all into vulgar assholes.
Why aren't you mad at them for turning you into cretinous idiots? Stop lashing out at liberals. We love a good victim, if you'll just stop flailing around and crying long enough to get on our sympathy list.
“We love a good victim”
Yes, we know, you lying, cultist sociopath waste of life.
"It must actually be psychologically straining for you people to sit there day in, day out, insisting that the most brazenly corrupt human in the history of the earth has done literally nothing wrong."
Leave droolin' Joe out of this.
"It must actually be psychologically straining for you people to sit there day in, day out, insisting that the most brazenly corrupt human in the history of the earth has done literally nothing wrong."
Yeah, I don't know how people keep defending Joe Biden, but back to the topic at hand.
Not really. Most of the professional media do it every day, even in the White House press room.
Tony, you’re confused. YOU are the one who supports Joe Biden.
Reason #1: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
Reason #2: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
Reason #3: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
Reason #4: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
Reason #5: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
Reason #6: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
Reason #7: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
Reason #8: Hackjob Sullum’s totalitarian bosses in the DNCCP have owned the legal system in this country for decades, and are free to publicly crucify whoever they want for whatever lie they want while simultaneously flaunting their own actual high crimes and treasons.
8 reasons is not 8 pieces of evidence. I suspect Mr Sullum and his lawyer would scream bloody murder if he was convicted on “reasons”. “Reasons” are why Mr Sullum prefers Trump be convicted. And to suggest there is no personal bias against Trump in 90% TDS Manhattan that would impact jury perspective, response to “reasons” or the lack of evidence, and jury deliberations and decision, is to deny a rational world. Something that should be done with great caution by a supposed journalist working for this magazine.
A poorly sourced, written and approved story.
Lack of reading comprehension skill doesn't excuse your ignorance. The author cited reasons the jury was convinced, not evidence they considered in reaching that conclusion.
A jury of partisan democrats picked for their rabid hatred of Trump.
Being a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit doesn't excuse your abysmal stupidity; fuck off and die.
..because there was no evidence. Now you've got it!
Fifth, Trump did himself no favors during a deposition in which Carroll's lead lawyer, Roberta Kaplan, asked him about those remarks. "Well, historically that's true with stars," he said. "It's true with stars that they can grab women by the pussy?" Kaplan asked. "If you look over the last million years," Trump replied, "I guess that's been largely true, not always, but largely true—unfortunately or fortunately." When Kaplan asked if Trump considered himself "a star," he said, "I think you can say that, yeah."
Can you convict on torturous use of the english language ?
I notice you don't dispute that women and girls swoon for high status men and go out of their way and outside their "boundaries" willingly for such. You are an unserious leftist twat deserving of as much scorn as Jacob.
Yeah, when you're high status, it's logically impossible to commit rape. That was literally Trump's self-defense.
Must be true. We wasn’t found guilty of rape.
Put it on the campaign placard.
Biden already did that in 2020. Remember? “Believe ALL women . . . except Tara Reade, my daughter, and that 8 year old girl whose nipples I pinched on TV. Threaten THAT one”.
Tony doesn’t care about that.
No, that’s what literally every Democrat shitstain (yourself included) has said about Bill Clinton for the past 30 years, however.
https://twitter.com/NewAtlantisSun/status/1656384238575386624?t=EwdUi9DjmsEpD0pjLscy4Q&s=19
This is the modal NYC lib juror. "Sweetie we believe you when you said trump did something bad because he's a super bad man, like super, but maybe you're confused about the rape part. Here's some money for being so brave"
"We don't believe you, but he shouldn't have called you a liar, that's just mean 🙂 Sexual assault is such a big issue thank you for telling your truth 🙂 "
[Link]
Carroll got 5 million while Trump got a fired-up base just before an election. Playing the victim is Trump's...Trump card. He couldn't have bought better publicity for that 5 mill.
Not saying you're wrong, but Trump's base needs to add a few swing voters to their disgusting cesspool of anarchy, hate, and extreme anti-intellectualism to actually win.
Apparently in 2016 he was viewed by enough precious darling Americans as less corrupt and extreme than Hillary. So we'll see what the ensuing years of evidence convinces them of.
Folks, you want disgusting? This steaming pile of TDS-addled lefty shit will fill the bill until something even more putrid shows up
It’s debt ceiling season, so Tony’s Cult has orders to swap from “fascists” to “anarchists”.
The projection is the same standard, however.
So.. how are we doing on the validity of non-specific, near contemporaneous allegations?
Jake says they are dispositive. If you said anything at the time, then everything you later claim is true, even if you did not say it at the time.
We had just such a case very recently. So, what did we think about the allegations about a student saying she would run over a bunch of protesters? That allegation was repeated instantly to many people. It was repeated to authorities at the school. Yet we found it to lack credibility. Reason wrote extensively on the topic.
What about "hands up, don't shoot!". There were loads of reports about that the same day. Many people believed it. Eyewitnesses didn't see that. There was physical evidence to refute it. And eventually the autopsy confirmed a contradictory version of events. Yet many still believe and repeat the "hands up" gentle giant version.
But reason has debunked that version. Even though it was the first, contemporaneous version.
Interesting that when politics gets involved, suddenly a non-specific story of a sexual assault 30 years ago that was reported in non-specific ways to someone at some indeterminate later time.. and then that recollection was recorded at a much later time... Suddenly that is "credibly reported.". So even though Brett Kavanaugh had every single named witness on his side that not only did the event not occur, but the entire gathering never occurred... And he even had a full calendar from 35 years prior to back it up. Yet reason still said her claim was credible.
It seems that politics makes even dedicated rationalist libertarians into Orwellian believers in whatever reality suits the politics of the moment.
Under no circumstances should a 30 year old, entirely unsubstantiated claim be given the weight of law by the state. He-said, she-said should remain exactly that absent some actual proof. It is impossible to sus out any view of reality from this level of evidence. And I double dog dare you to prove you didn't do something, anything at all, 30 years ago during a 2 year window. "Jake Sullim used to eat at a restaurant down the street. One time I was waiting tables and he skipped out without paying the bill. ". Prove it didn't happen. Good luck. I told my friends about some guys skipping out on the bill sometime back then. They'll back that up.
We're way past debates about legality or hypocrisy mattering.
The only thing that can save us is stacks of liars' bodies.
Produce enough of those, and maybe the totalitarians back off a bit.
Leftist liars, like Sullum, aren't people. They're literally cancer. And they have to be dealt with like any other cancerous tumor.
Nardz’s leftist kill count: 0
*this is in no way advocating violence. Simply pointing out what giant pussies Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud are.
Are you sure?
Now could it just be that she waited until 2019 to make these accusations because that was the year the founder of LinkedIn put up the money to fund an expensive lawsuit, thereby guaranteeing she wouldn't suffer any financial consequences if a jury just laughed at these claims? And of course, he did that to try and damage Trump for the 2020 election.
Tara Reade's report that she was raped by Joe Biden is far better documented, but no billionaires are willing to fund a lawsuit for her. Strangely, they are all on Joe Biden's side.
Trump is an execrable human being and undeserving of respiration. That's why the supposed "billionaire" Trump can find no real billionaires to take his side.
Has Tara Reide claimed that Biden raped her?
EdG and Alric the red are steaming piles of TDS-addled shit who should fuck off and die.
They shouldn't get a choice.
Nardz’s leftist kill count: 0
*this is in no way advocating violence. Simply pointing out what giant pussies Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud are.
Hi shrike. Which nationality is this sock?
Tardistani.
I like your style. Look at them, seething with a desire to commit real violence. Aren't they just the epitome of the Republican party or what?
And somehow they'll claim that January 6th was intended to be peaceful.
Eat shit and die.
Has Tara Reide claimed that Biden raped her?
Yes.
There's a big difference between sexual harassment and rape. So, the answer to the question is, no, he did not rape her. He was a boorish lout, but that's the sum of it. Biden has no history of this behavior as an ongoing pattern. Meanwhile, Trump, as a 59-year-old man, was bragging about grabbing women by the short hairs.
It's only sexual harassment, which most Democrats consider serious misbehavior that should end the man's career - except for Biden, Clinton, and several Kennedys.
"Although the jury heard only from Carroll, Leeds, and Stoynoff, nearly two dozen other women have publicly accused Trump of sexual assault or harassment. In light of that history, a fair-minded person might reasonably conclude that he probably did something like what Carroll described, even without the benefit of the evidence presented during the trial."
Now let's apply the same logic to another former President who was also impeached. Nah, those accusations are all a right-wing conspiracy and cannot possibly be real.
And in addition to the testimony of the alleged victim, there was a contemporaneous witness to the immediate aftermath of the event. She reported it immediately as a "hostile work environment" violation, believing it to be a part of a parade of women coming in to the office and having sex.
Again, when politics is involved, the level of what counts as "credible" gets very malleable.
"Although only two flat earthers testified at the trial, hundreds of others have made accusations that the earth is very flat. In light of this broad movement, a fair-minded person must reasonably conclude that the earth is definitely flat."
Appeal to popularity fallacy...
Let's apply that standard to the witches in Salem.
That is an actually great point. Same standard as Salem.
I see three:
T-D-S.
You know, people like you also suffer from TDS. Because of it, you can't see him for what he really is.
Fuck off and die, asshole; make your family proud.
“preponderance of the evidence” There was no evidence – only statements by three women who all wanted to get this verdict regardless. Multiple statements from biased witnesses is no better then one. This is a perfect example of why there is a statute of limitations. It’s impossible after this amount of time for the defendant to prove his innocence. That’s why she didn’t have a date of the assault. He would be able to prove he was not there if she did. Trump was one of the most famous people in New York at the time, and nobody else remembers this happening? The lack of evidence was crucial to her case, when it should have been entirely exculpatory.
This is just the kind of legal overreach a real libertarian would find dangerously unfair. This verdict was entirely based on who the defendant was and nothing more. There will be more of this as the preferred candidate of the nation is attacked by endless lawfare only because democracy would elect him. Wake up. The most anti-libertarian forces that ever existed are flexing their muscle, and you are covering for them.
Trump is the kind of asshole who, when confronted with a charge of rape, says the woman (or man) is too old or too ugly even to fuck, let alone rape.
2015 trump is accused of going after porn stars and young miss America contestants. Now he is accused of going after homely 60 year old women.
Don’t be an idiot. She was young when this happened. Young and very attractive. He mistook her for one of his wives in a photograph.
Didn't you read the article?
Quit being a TDS-addled pile of shit; fuck off and die.
She was 50 the year she accused him. Born in 1943.
Fifty is the new "young and beautiful!"
Well, when the accusers Hillary trots out are all morbidly obese and/or in their 90s?
Daddyhill is the sort of TDS-addled shit pile who will believe any gossip about Trump.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
"...the verdict was supposed to be based on a preponderance of the evidence" Correct. Instead, it was based on the new legal standard, "Preponderance of Presumption", where the accusation alone is all that's required to convict.
Remember 2021, where this very same propagandist hack wrote ten articles every day demanding that nobody pay attention to any evidence of election fraud or influencing?
Meanwhile, every Democrat who has ever been willing to open their mouths regarding Bill Clinton’s Adventure in Serial Rape has claimed it wasn’tbrape because, “Bill is a handsome stud that any wman would kill yo be with.”
And let’s not forget the smear campaign against Tara Reade. Or the orchestrated death threats received by the young girl when she came forward and confirmed that Joe Biden did indeed sexually assault her by grabbing her nipple on camera.
> Or the orchestrated death threats received by the young girl when she came forward and confirmed that Joe Biden did indeed sexually assault her by grabbing her nipple on camera.
OK, so, not that I doubt he's capable of this, but, links? That's pretty hardcore of a claim.
Compare this to the araiza article Robbie wrote fucking yesterday. At least that accuser had a day and time and thankfully cell phone video to prove she was a fucking liar. Yet araiza still lost his job for a mere accusation. Robbie stated how false accusations and a need for evidence are required for these accusations.
Yet a day later Sullum celebrates a verdict based on no actual evidence.
The problem with his pussy quote is that people take it out of context. What's that little phrase? "They let you". That's consent. If they say no, they aren't letting you and that assault. This will be overturned on appeal.
Hopefully Trump sues this lying whore in every red jurisdiction for defamation and brings this corrupt judge and every hack journolist along as co-conspirators. You marxist cunts have nothing beyond an accusation but that is enough for you to gin up a Soviet show trial and clap like seals.
According to Trump, of course, all of those women are lying. Like every other accusation against him, he says, their stories are part of a long-running Democratic "witch hunt."
I mean, has it not been shown via the Muller report and the Steele Dossier that people absolutely are willing to lie in order to get him? I think the minimal barrier any accuser should overcome is some proof that they aren't making shit up. And "Here's two of my friends who will confirm I didn't make this shit up" isn't really convincing proof in my book.
THIS "nearly two dozen other women have publicly accused Trump" IN NOT PROOF.
The jury's decision wasn't based solely on that. It was his pattern and his own words that proved it was a pattern, one he was quite proud of.
Find someone else to admire; someone actually admirable.
Keep picking them cherries, steaming pile of TDS-addled shit.
I look forward to hearing that you were chokefucked to death.
So no actual evidence then? If you think this is really about Trump and not about a legal standard so perverse Stalin would blush, you're an even bigger fucking idiot than shrike. If trust in the law is eroded, there is no law. Get that through your fucking skull.
I really don't see why so many of you struggle with this verdict as being valid. It's a civil case, not a criminal case so the standard for conviction is not as high.
Bill Clinton was well established as a slut but he has at least made some effort to be discrete. Trump has bragged constantly about being a slut who can get away with anything with women because he is a star. He compared his sexual escapades in the '80s with being a Viet Nam veteran because of his promiscuity & fear of disease. He has a well established history of cheating on his three wives. His behavior is consistent with a very high level of narcissism.
The fact that New Yorkers overwhelmingly voted against Trump is because they know him too well. He is a blowhard who never pays his bills. New Yorkers know this type very well.
In the 2016 GOP primary, New York Republicans voted for Kasich over Trump by 44% to 41% - That's New York City REPUBLICANS!
However much you may like Trump's politics, let's not delude ourselves about who this guy is & pretend he is the 2nd coming of Jesus like some of the evangelicals seem to think.
The one thing I don't like about this site is the inability to upvote comments like yours.
One thing I don't like is its attraction to TDS-addled shi-p9iles, TDS-addled shit-pile.
Learn how to use the edit feature, you ODS-CDS-BDS-addled (Obama, Clinton, Biden, respectively) troglodyte.
Fuck off and die; make your family proud.
Further, however much you despise him, let's not act like he's Satan incarnate like some of the TDS-addled shit-piles seem to think.
It’s a civil case, not a criminal case so the standard for conviction is not as high.
The burden still requires substantial proof in the truth. You can’t just vote guilty because you don’t like the person.
I’m open to being convinced with evidence. I don’t think trials, even civil trials, should be popularity contests, they are still a truth-finding exercise.
"The burden still requires substantial proof in the truth. You can’t just vote guilty because you don’t like the person..."
This is Trump-justice writ large; the scales have tilted from "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" to:
SRG 3 hours ago
"Or because, you know, there was actually a reasonable likelihood that he did what he was accused of."
That's not a "slippery slope"; that's a near vertical cliff. The burden has shifted from the prosecution proving Trump did in fact do "X" to Trump burdened with proving there isn't a "likelihood" of him doing something.
Pathetic...
I really don’t see why so many of you struggle with this verdict as being valid.
the reaction makes more sense if you imagine that they are actually Republicans
[Redacted]
I see we have at least two new fifty-centers weighing in today...
She is a documented liar.
Happened decades ago.
No witnesses.
No evidence of any kind.
She has changed the story multiple times.
She doesn't even remember what year it happened.
I wonder if the brain dead editors of unReason would like to be tried under the same standards?
One step closer to shit getting real.
Approaching FAFO Condition One.
Nardz’s leftist kill count: 0
*this is in no way advocating violence. Simply pointing out what giant pussies Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud are.
Hey faggot, which gutless Marxist are you a sock for? Not shocking that you’re all chickenshit cowards.
Someone should capture it in oils, a painting, rendering the poor beleaguered, longsuffering Trump, crucified, a beam of light radiating from the clouds, highlighting his angelic face, capturing the moment when he says, “My God, my God, why have Thou forsaken me?”
Some TDS-addled asshole should stick his TDS up his ass to keep his head company, TDS-addled shit-pile.
Get redacted
Upon opening the email from Reason, with the title “8 Reasons Why E. Jean Carroll Won Her Sexual Abuse and Defamation Lawsuit Against Trump,” I was expecting something entirely different than the final conclusion. I thought the main point would be that Trump had faced a headwind of bias. But instead of dissing E. Jean Carroll, we got a pretty good verification of what a lowlife Trump really was, and no doubt still is. And, to make it even more entertaining, the article used pretty much Trump’s own words to make the case. How could anyone not believe it. Even though it was almost 20 years ago that Trump made that pussy-hair-grabbing remark, he was still too old at that time to make that kind of comment. He was 59. Yet, there he was, imagining himself as some young stud, bragging about his ability to regard women as if they were livestock.
This article seemed to truly apply the reason adverted by the site appellation. I’ve visited this site many times, and I’ve seen the “reasoning” in the comment section, and I knew that this article was not going to sit well with the majority of them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth as they defend their adult delinquent. Their denial would be shrill. However, anyone who’s objective–not hindered by partisan stupidity–and who’s paying attention to this man throughout the years, will find this jury’s findings fair. He’s proud of his ability to do what he was sued for doing. He states it as a bragging right.
Hey, all you Trump supporters, be happy it wasn’t a criminal prosecution. Even as disgusting as he is, he’ll still be able to run for president.
________________
Nothing of the sort; we just got another round of TDS-addled shit-piles strutting their stuff, TDS-addled shit-pile.
Fuck off and die; make your family proud.
Hey, find a new schtick. It's not nearly as clever as you think it is, and I stopped finding it funny way up there, some time ago. Think up your own insults, you trogtard. Besides, your ODS and CDS and BDS (Obama, Clinton, and Biden, respectively) is far too severe for you to think straight. Your head is going to explode. I suggest trepanning to relieve the pressure.
Fuck off and die; make your family proud.
No; I don't doubt that Trump was probably inappropriately aggressive (entirely a standard of everyone's own personal scale) but good grief none of these articles even mentions the 'I said STOP but he didn't', Tried to escape but he held me down, or even an I Told him off, evidence.
If you don't like someone's passes at you but don't do anything about it you have NO standing. Kissing isn't within itself a crime.
Seriously, folks.
Good people are going to have to get physical or we're all going to be liquidated.
Nardz’s leftist kill count: 0
*this is in no way advocating violence. Simply pointing out what giant pussies Nardz and Elmer Fudd the Chud are.
I'm not making any claims of intention, I'm simply assessing the situation.
You know it's the truth which is why you resort to childish arguments.
But feel free to post your name and location. I'm sure the state will appreciate your dedication to tyranny.
I’m not making any claims of intention
I think that's NLKC0's point. Everyday you're here calling for the execution of those you deem leftists, cancers etc., but you don't do anything about it yourself. One might say you're the Ray Epps of Reason.
What sunk Trump was his Access Hollywood tape, and his response to it. In the minds of many, that tape was irrefutable proof, in his own words, that he had an "old school", Mad Men mentality to sexual abuse. That a little bit of "grab ass" or unwanted touching or kissing or grabbing was okay if you're rich and popular and famous. And then he continues to defend the statements in that tape to this very day. So ANY claim of sexual abuse made by ANY woman against Trump is easily regarded as more believable because of Trump's own words on that Access Hollywood tape. That doesn't necessarily make the claim truthful or correct. But it does make the prosecution's job easier. Character matters, and reputation matters.
What sunk Trump was a crooked judge, and a democrat jury from NYC. Composed of your fellow travelers.
https://twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1656426809465110529?t=kBW-vjjwi10rLWuYSVjlvw&s=19
It’s simple: they don’t bother trying to justify themselves anymore. They don’t think that you are entitled to an explanation, and they know there will be no consequences whatever for telling the Republicans to GFY.
[Link]
Let's be honest. If this was anyone but Trump, would this be considered anywhere near sufficient evidence after all this time?
I cannot fathom an accusation being sufficient with no supporting evidence aside from people claiming that they heard the accusation a long time ago and nothing else but character defamation
Quite frankly, the Grab-Em line alone should never have been allowed into evidence and was ridiculously prejudicial.
Douglas Mackey is facing 10 years for posting memes.
The Proud Boys were convicted of texting each other and attending a protest.
Daniel Perry was sentenced to 25 years for defending himself against an armed assailant that was part of a mob attacking him.
I get what you're saying, and it's thematically correct. But it's not just Trump they're going after.
You too can be convicted on mere allegations.
It makes a difference if the kangaroo court is in session.
One question though: How many businesses were looted and burned by Proud Boys? How many churches were set on fire by Proud Boys? How many police cars were torched by Proud Boys? How many police officers were assaulted, injured and even murdered by Proud Boys? How many pregnancy counseling centers were burned down by Proud Boys? The $2 billion in damage and destruction, the physical assaults caused by BLM and ANTIFA and yet very,very few arrests and conviction.
How many Proud Boys threatened and attempted to kill Kyle Rittenhouse?
There was no doubt Trump would be found guilty. The only thing left unanswered is how a trial like this could even occur. Like Trump said. If this can happen to him think of how easy it would be for the state to do it to anyone.
As people pointed out, the verdict is actually fairly modest; spare change for Trump and "no rape".
If you are a New Yorker and you sat on that jury, your fellow New Yorkers would have made your life a living hell if you hadn't found Trump guilty of something. All things considered, this is probably the best outcome Trump could have hoped for.
Jacob, the woman is a loon. Your “analysis” is pointless. Jury’s cannot cut away to a commercial the way Anderson Cooper had to when he interviewed her. They have to sit and nod because we all know that Trump is guilty of EVERYTHING.
She’s a shakedown artist who is looking for one, last gasp of notoriety that she can leverage to whatever in her fantasy world.
https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1656453614959722498?t=bIQNrlo4la2MqUZV7vv4lw&s=19
DHS is using an encrypted online chat room to tell Mexico where to send illegals to cross the border to avoid TX National Guard and DPS officers. DHS is using border detection tech to track TX law enforcement to alert Mexico where/when illegals should cross.
Meanwhile, as DHS mans encrypted online chat rooms with Mexico, new evidence proves the DHS has a program that targets “Middle-Aged Pro-Life Advocates” and “Budding Conspiracy Theorists” under the guise of “Deradicalization”. FYI - that is you and me.
[Links]
You have 8 reasons. I'll give you 15. Democrat plaintiff. Democrat council for the plaintiff. Democrat bankroll for the plaintiff. Democrat judge. And 12 Democrats in the jury box.
This has to stop. Our country can not go along limping like this. Either we will have some sort of national divorce, or we will have a civil war. As I am a U.S. military veteran, I'm not legally allowed to advocate for my preferred option.
Carroll is evidently not to well off financially. Why do I say that.
The lawsuit was initiated by an an anti-Trump activist and financed by a billionaire Democrat donor.
Interesting that no one witnessed the evidence. While this was a civil suit it was one for injury. You would think the judge would require at least one if not two eye witnesses of a credible nature to even allow the lawsuit to proceed. There isn't even any video of it.
But that isn't the law in America. People can testify about anything they want and courts accept that. We saw that in the Justice Kavanaugh Senate confirmation hearing.
Statutes of limitation usually prevent such ridiculous court cases. In the case of battery, the statute of limitation in NY is one year.
But because straight men can't help their white knighting, they hand out legal privileges to women like candy and are corrupting the legal system.
I didn't vote for him either time. I voted for Gary and Jill, with pride and gratitude. Still: Trump is the closest thing we have had to an anti-war president since President Jimmy Carter.
If he runs as a Republican, and if the Feces Caucus of the former Libertarian Party does what they look like they will do and run a republican mouthpiece of the worst sort: I may possibly vote for Trump in 2024. Stranger things have happened.
It's not like the pro-war democrat party will let Robert Kennedy Jr run. The M.I.C. wouldn't permit that.
You may call it the "Feces Caucus", but they are still an improvement over the people who ran the LP before.
Trump chose to whore on behalf of God's Own Prohibitionists and Grabbers Of Pussy. Their playbook lifts entire paragraphs from Germany's Positive Christian National Socialist movement. The Germanic looter Anschluss of the LP, like violence against women's clinics, is symptomatic of resurgences of Nazi ideology. Mystical collectivism is every bit as destructive of economic stability as the version of parasitical socialism the other half of the Kleptocracy is peddling. Bushistas wrecked the economy just as badly without benefit of a Chinese pandemic!
Trump the Traveler. He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Comstock, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the Mises supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many looters and mystical girl bulliers knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
The criterion whether there can be a rape charge or not should be whether the victim reported the rape to police as soon as it was reasonably possible to report it.
Allowing women to delay claiming rape by decades is not just unfair to the accused, it is a policy that allows rapists to victimize more people.
Sullum's next article: "8 Reasons Why Christine Blasey Ford Should Win Her Sexual Abuse and Defamation Lawsuit Against Kavanaugh"
In a sane world, accusations of rape should require quick reporting and some physical evidence or witnesses.
The left made a Russian agent out of Trump based on a fabricated dossier, made a rapist out of his SC nominee out of thin air, and is trying to send the man for prison for 100 plus years for what even the NYT and Sullum calls "unproven legal theory."
Trump is absolutely a victim of a witchcraft. Sullum, an astute writer, would easily recognize this fact if this level of state prosecution was perpetrated on literally anyone else. Trump didn't help himself by plunging himself into election conspiracy theories, but it was perhaps easier for him to believe them given how much the government was out to get him.
Doesn't Sullum find it odd that the victim can't name the place or date of the incident, despite being "raped" by a public figure like Trump? Her friends who received the call from her took no action? Were they able to verify at least he date of the incident?
None of the other women who also accused him filed police reports or criminal charges? One woman alleged that Trump touched her in an airplane, and some passengers who were there denied seeing anything like that.
Just imagine if Trump was someone else. A drug dealer or sexually promiscuous black man. Even in a civil trial, does any these "evidence" really make sense? Harvey Weinstein was such a serial abuser that hotel workers had an inkling of what was happening in his room. There was a recording of him berating one of his victims in a hotel. Everything about this civil trial is just women telling their side of the story. No one actually SAW anything, even in very public place.
"...Sullum, an astute writer, would easily recognize this fact if this level of state prosecution was perpetrated on literally anyone else..."
Not sure an astute writer would make such a public ass of himself.
An imbecilic TDS-addled pile of shit would, and Sullum is certainly doing his best to prove he is, indeed, an imbecilic TDS-addled pile of shit.
Time for Tara Reade to file a civil suit against Biden.
Does anyone believe she would live long enough for it to go through?
Had the woman claimed that the man had only forcibly kissed and groped her, the verdict might make some sense, though the lack of a specific date/time should have determined the outcome since the claim is neither verifiable nor refutable. Moreover, a claim of rape if far more defamatory than a claim of unwanted kissing and groping. So not likely at all that this case (claim and counter claim of defamation) would even exist if not for the claim of rape.
However, one of the claims was rape, and that claim was rejected by the jury. So how then does a reasonable person/jurer/judge conclude that battery occurred? Was the woman mistaken/misremembering when claiming that a rape occurred, but correct that unwanted groping occurred?
Answer: Trump.
Communist N.Y. state legislature changed law to allow mentally ill woman to sue trump: https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1656335296085245952
My take on this from reading other reports is that E.Jean Carrol has mental and emotional problems, in other words she's moonbat crazy as hell, like all women.
Thanks to Sullum I now have some idea of what went on. No other journalist could have dragged me into coverage of the thing. The girl-bullying Grabber Of Pussy leading the movement to unperson and enslave women has gotten another comeuppance. Christin National Socialist brainwashees the world over are reeling in shock and struggling with reality control as they did in May 1945. So it was a happy outcome even before Sullum provided the details.
good to know that you can be convicted with zero evidence.
It helps if you can get a state house to change the laws to make it easier.
As I've stated before, it's all about revenge.
Nobody is bullying girls so shut the fuck up already you fucking tedious one note samba.
No.
The jury called her a liar, and called her claim of rape a lie.
Then, as is the custom with those who perjure for profit and liars and criminals of all kinds, the jury awarded her a consolation prize.
Thus, two fabrications - one by the accuser, and one by the jury.
Lady Justice was the one who was raped, along with the American people.
How's that Xiden thing going for you sullum? Still gleeful about his installation?
"8 Reasons Why E. Jean Carroll Won Her Sexual Abuse and Defamation Lawsuit"
1) The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
2) The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
3) The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
4) The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
5) The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
6) The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
7) The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
8) You guessed it ...The USSA has absolutely no rule of law whatsoever.
I have one reason why her claims are almost certainly 100% unadulterated bullshit but also plagarism:
Law and Order: SVU
Season 13 Episode 11
Easily could've shortened this article:
1. Because Orange Man Bad.
2. Because Orange Man Bad.
3. Because Orange Man Bad.
4. Because Orange Man Bad.
5. Because Orange Man Bad.
6. Because Orange Man Bad.
7. Because Orange Man Bad.
8. Because Orange Man Bad.
That pretty much covers it.
Sorry, but you should never be able to bring a case about it 20 years later.
Is it because she likes arepas?
This was a targeted political attack.
The woman can't even remember the year, let alone a date. It also exactly matches the plot of a show.
New York Jury Finds Trump Not Guilty of Rape, But Guilty of Defaming His Accuser by Denying It
"Keep in mind that New York wrote a new law specifically to provide E Jean Carroll a pathway to file a lawsuit"
over the allegation that something might have happened sometime in the past, though the accuser could not identify what year President Trump assaulted her. The accuser, a woman of notoriously odd behavior and remarkably unstable mindset, was funded by billionaire LinkedIn founder and very vocal Trump critic, Reid Hoffman.
New York created the new law for Ms. Carroll, Reid Hoffman paid for the legal costs, and Ms. Carroll made her sketchy accusations of something, from sometime, that wasn’t certain to have happened. There were no witnesses to the claimed events, there was no evidence the event took place, there was nothing to indicate Ms. Carroll or Mr. Trump were even in the same place at the same time.
Carroll was instrumental in getting the law passed that allowed this case to go forward, no doubt with help from Reid Hoffman, her benefactor.
It looks to me as if the law was passed to get a shot at Trump.
“ First, this was a civil trial, meaning the verdict was supposed to be based on a preponderance of the evidence, as opposed to the much more demanding standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt…”
In other words, the alleged crime could not even meet the less demanding standard. On what basis, then, did they rule that Trump’s calling her a liar (which their ruling supports) was “libel?”
Pure politics, that’s what. They jurors all belong in prison for perjury and other related crimes.
Never read legal analysis by journalist who have zero legal background and are too lazy to consult an actual lawyer. The result is the word slop you see above.
Thirded.
Yep, he and Shrike take turns raping little boys. I know that for a fact.
My dog’s ass is still hurting from the pounding EdG gave it in 2016 at Bergdorf-Goodman, that pervert!
EdG is a Shrike sockpuppet so he'd only fuck it if it was a puppy.